which hath been the Cause why so many have been bewildred about the things there declared Spiritual and heavenly Things are not diâ—cernable by carnal Men they are hid from their Eyes till the Light shine out of Darkness to give them the Knowledge of the Scriptures they are as a sealed Book and they labour in a Labyrinth of Uncertainties I do say again The Light in all Ages hath made known Doctrines fit to be obeyed though not the Histories and Narratives of other Mens Actions which is thy silly Objection against the Light 's Sufficiency But one thing I must not forget on which thou didst not depend a little as an Instance to prove thy Conceit viz. How could we have known that Swearing in any Case were unlawful if it had not been written in the 5th of Matthew Swear not at all Dial. 1. p. 22. But this I proved to thee to have been revealed above 400. Years before that was written but what is the Reason thou over-lookest that Answer Clinias was taught by it rather to suffer a great Fine then swear the Essaeaens had rather dye then swear which was long before Christ came in the Flesh Was not the Light then a sufficient Rule for their practising of an Evangelical Doctrine by thy own Argument But T. H. art thou not greatly ashamed that because I supposed upon thy Principle thy Light and Rule to be two Reas against Rail p. 39. That therefore I contradict my self and overthrow mine own Opinion saying If Light be given to understand the Rule then it self is not the Rule much less greater then the Rule and as if thou hadst come rightly by this Consequence falling into thy customary Insults telling me Tâ—is is so far from being Truth against Fiction that it discovers me to be a rash heady confident and ignorant Man one that neither cares what he sayes or affirms Hadst thou any Regard to God thy own Conscience thy Neighbour or thy own Reputation thou wouldst never commit much less continue to practise these horrid Wrongs against me However as I said before so again I affirm that supposing the Scriptures were the Rule that which informs me of the Rule and teaches me how to use it must be greater then the Rule in that it teaches me to know and do what the Rule cannot do of it self I query then if tâ—is Light be not the Rule how and which way I come to understand and use the Scriptures c. therefore eminently the Rule the Terms of my Argument for the Question lay not upon particular Rules C. The Primitive Christians took not their Measures from the Light within but from the Will of God revealed to them p. 46. Q. This is Confusion it self Are the Light within and the Will of God revealed inconsistent things Who was it revealed to them Paul turned from Darkness to Light the Will of God but the Light And what was it taught them the Truth when John said They had received an Anointing which abode in them and taught them all things unto which he directed and with which he left them John 1. 2 27. And doth not the same Apostle tell us If we walk in the Light we have Fellowship one with another c Was not the Light then the Rule of their Obedience and the Way in which they were to walk for the Accomplishment of that Prophetick Speech Isa 2.5 Oh ye House of Jacob come ye and let us walk in the Light of the Lord. And is there any thing plainer then that the Apostle Paul describes the Children of God to be such as are led by the Spirit of God Rom. 8.14 and that he exhorts the Galatians to walk in the Spirit chap. 5.16 and the Ephesians to walk circumspectly which was according to the Manifestations of the Light chap. 5.14 15 16. Finally does not the same Apostle pronounce Peace on as many as walk according to the Rule of the Nâ—w Creature Gal. 6.16 I further told thee that the Waldonses Lutherans Protâ—stâ—â—ts â—alvinists c. made the Testimony of God in their Consciences the chief Ground of their Belief of the Scriptures Reas against Rail pag. 48. C. That the Waldenâ—es c. made the Testimony of their Consciences the chief Ground of the Belief of thâ— Scriptures is confidently said but more then ever W. Penn is able to prove Q. But if W. Penn is able to prove that the Waldenses Lutherans Protâ—stants Calvinists yea and Independents and Anabaptists too have made the Testimony of God in their Consciences the Ground of their Belief of the Scriptures wilt not thou then appear to have told a confident Untruth Let us hear what they say That the Waldenses held so thou mayst inform thy self if thou pleasest out of their History penn'd by John Paul Perin of Lyons lib. 1. cap. 1 cap. 11 cap. 13. Luther taught That the Spirit is required to the Vnderstanding of the whole Scripture and of every part thereof Again The Scriptures are not to be understood but by that very Spirit by which they were wrot Tom. 3. fol. 169. John Bradford a worthy Martyr thus answered the Arch Bishop of York who catechised him how he came to know the Scriptures We do believe and know said he the Scriptures as Christ's Sheep not because the Church saith they are the Scriptures but because they be so being thereof assured by the same Spirit that wrote and spake them Book Mart. vol. 3. p. 298. William Tindal another faithful Martyr in Hen. 8 his time writes thus It is impossible to understand the Scriptures more then a Turk for him that hath not the Law of God written in his Heart to fulfil it Again Without the Spirit it is impossible to understand them W. Tind Work p. 319. p. 80. B. Jewel against the Papists hath this Passages Fâ—esh and Blood is not able to understand the holy Will of God without special Revelation therefore Christ gave Thanks unto his Father and likewise opened the Hearts of his Disciples that they might understand the Scriptures Without this special Help and Prompting of God's holy Spirit the Scriptures are unto the Reader be he never so wise or well learned as the Vision of a sealed Book Calvin saith It is necessary that the same Spirit that spake by the Mouth of the Prophets should pierce into our Hearts to perswade us of the Truth of what they delivered Instit lib. 1. cap 8 Beza saith That the understanding of the Scriptures should be fetcht from the same Spirit that dictated them Bez in Nov. Test 2 Pet. 1.19 Pet. Martyr taught That it is the Spirit of God that reveals the Truth in the holy Scriptures Com. loc p. 2 cap. 18. H. Bullinger asserted in his 4 Decad. 8 Serm. dedicated to K. Edw. 6. That men fetch the Vnderâ—â—anding of heavenly things and Knowledge of the Holy Ghost from no where else then from the same Spirit What sayest thou to this T. H Can the Holy
hast designedly overlookt However let us hear what Defence thou hast made for thy self C. The Question respects the whole Scripture which you say is Dangerous and Killing The Ministers of the Scriptures are Ministers of Death and it is Dangerous for such to read them What a shameless Man art thou thus to confess what I accuse you of and yet condemn me as a Forger pag. 57. Q. These foul and confident Questions thou usest to ask me with which thou wouldst insinuate thy Innocency do but aggravate thy Forgery For first How do I confess what thou accusest us of when it is neither to be found in my words nor theirs upon whom thou chargest them viz. It is Dangerous for Ignorant People to read the Scriptures 2dly I told thee they meant by Ministers of the Letter Ministers of the Law and Death because of Transgression and thou makest it Dangerous for such to read the Scriptures whereas G. F. and R. H. said It was Dangerous for Hirelings and whiâ—e Walls to use them against the Saints with their carnal Expâ—sitions opposing them Pharisee like to the Life of them wresting them to their own â—estruction It is Dangerous for such to read them to such Uses and Purposes not in any Sense as thou untruly sayest Of this thou takest no notice So that here the Reader may plainly see thy first Forgery since it was not the Man of no Letters but the Men of Letters such as the Scribes and Phariseâ—s who used them against the right Heirs of them of whom G.F. and R.H. â—poak And thy second is not less visible in that thou hast imposed upon the Reader my Confession of thy Accusation who never confessed any such thing These are some of thy wonted Tricks ever anon imploy'd to cover thy Nakedness with and to get off unsuspected from encountering the Difficulty of our Charge Proof or Argument I appeal to God's Witness in my Reader 's Conscience to right us against the many Injurious Practices against us And shall conclude with this Acknowledgment and Argument concerning the Scriptures We do receive and believe the Scriptures given forth by Holy Men of God as they were moved of the Holy Ghost and that they are profitable for Doctrine for Reproof and for Instruction in Righteousness yet since they are Writings relating to the things of God no man can understand them or have an assured Testimony of them but by the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2. which alone reveals the deep things of God It was not the Scripture but the Father that revealed Christ to Peter Mat. 16.5 Further The New Covenant Times are Times of Fulfilling of the Scriptures by the pouring out of the Spirit therefore Peoples regard should be to the inward Drawings and Leadings of the Holy Spirit The Law outward was a Rule to the Jew though not eminently unto them for the Lord gave them also of his good Spirit what for if not to rule them But the Law of the Spirit of Life promised to be reveal'd within under the New Everlasting Covenant was certainly to be the Rule under that Covenant being a time for the more immediate Flowings forth of Spirit and Life We do not say that every one hath hereunto attained But we affirm that God hath given a measure of his Spirit unto Men Women that they might receive the pretious Promises unto w ch we direct them for that End I know that T. Hicks according to his wonted Baseness pag. 49. interprets our saying that we deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice in honour to the Divine Light to be our denying rejecting the revealed Will of God thereby must hate their Parents because they are to love Christ first Mat. 10. This were to say that Paul's regard to the Law of the Spirit of Life in him as his Rule was not to fulfil but to deny rejâ—ct the Law without If this Consequence be false againsâ— Paul How can T. H.'s Consequence be good against us Is it to reject and deny the Scriptures to have the good things they declare of brought in by the Eternal Spirit And since the Scriptures can not fulfil themselves in us but the Spirit is not the Spirit the Rule and Guide to our Divine Knowledge and Enjoyments But from our asserting the Spirit to be the Rule T.H. infers That we deny to live according to the Scriptures a Miâ—take he fell into before which I offer'd to help him out of in my Answer for to own the Scripture to be the Rule and to live according to the Scriptures are not one and the same thing For the Gentiles did the things contained in the outward Law and yet had not the outward Law for a Rule Rom. 2.14 Nor is it to be doubted but that Paul and the primitive Christians lived up to the outward Law that is the inward Law outwarly declared by the Law of the Spirit of Life which was the Rule of their Obedience Yet can any infer that the outward Law and not the inward was the Rule of their so living And I must tell thee Th. Hicks that thy Exalting of the Scriptures is but an Endeavour to throw down the Spirit which Sacrifice be it known unto thee the Lord of Heaven loathes And I will say to thee as G. F. and R. H. said to the Priest They are Dangerous to be read and used for those Evil Purposes thou employest them upon But as they said though that also thou didst overlook so say I Blessed is He that doth read and understands them Testimonies concerning the Rule Irenaeus pag. 242 384 389. The Writing in the Heart is the Rule Again l. 5. c. 8. The Word giveth his Spirit to all to some according to Condition And l. 4. c. 30. The Fathers justified by the Righteousness of the Law in them therefore had no need of REPROVING LETTERS W. Perkins Works 3 Vol. pag. 220. The Light of Nature and Grace teacheth to do as we would be done to pag. 221. It is the Fulfilling of the Law the Rule to judge Scripture That of God made the Rule Something in the Conscience Happy Times if Men would follow it Bp. R. Sanderson De Obligat Conscient pag. 127. A Rule of Discerning without the Scriptures Regula discernendi extra Scripturam And T. Câ—llier in plain words saith The Spirit of God who is God is the ALONE RULE of a Christian Gen. Epist to the Saints chap. 12. The Spiritual Man judgeth all things by the RULE OF THE SPIRIT ibid. The Law of the New Testament is written in the Heart ibid. But what need is there further of my maintaining this Point concerning The Light being the Rule in all Ages since thou hast made such ample Confession That the Godly in all Ages before Christ in the Flesh were turned from the Darkness to the Light pag. 64. This Light must needs be within because the Darkness is there And it must needs be sufficient because
Conclusion THou accusest me with defending and jusâ—â—â—ying E. B. in Cursing Railing and Lying and that in the Name of the Lord Dial. 3. p. 10 82 83. where it is to be observed that thou doest not onely esteem it so thy self but supposest me both to confess it to be such and that notwithstanding I warrant it from the Lord. These are thy black and odious Insinuations and Conclusions as may at large be seen in the pages before mentioned as if to deny them to be such were to affirm them such for I know not by what other Figure I allow them such But because this cannot appear less then an absurd and incredible Lye to all that have their senses I shall the less heed it But what Proof doest thou bring that E. B. curses lyes and railes To call what he sayes by such hard Names concludes no such thing All I see is that thou ryâ—'st to the words by him utter'd as if a Repetition were a Proof Poor Man This it is to be upon the Fret Proud and Passionate E. B. must curse lye and raile because thou sarst so Is not this to act the Dictator with a witness The Truth is I scarce think there ever was a fouler But thou stomackst my saying that the Scripture allows those Names and retor'st it seems you can make the Scripture your Rule for Lying Cursing and Railing But this is as irreverently said of the Scripture as abusively of us and absurdly in it self can any man make them his Rule for that which is impious I had thought that at what time any act wickedly thâ—y cease to make them their Rule Shall I make one of thy Conclusions now against thee T. Hicks says the Scripture may be a Rule for Lying Cursing and Railing But is every Example a Rule a Rule always relatâ—s to Duty a President or Example not Is it my Duty to call bad men by all the Names mentioned in Scripture because there are such Examples VVhat then should I call Thee that art as bad a man every jot as the worst of them This shews that the Scripture cannot be a Rule in an hundred such Cases but the particular measure of Wisdom from God that is always present and gives to undâ—rstand and apply things suitably and not upon mere Imitation where thy Religion such as it is stands I say that our justifying our Practice by the Example of Scripture does not conclude it our Rule or any man's whatsoever in so citing it And therefore thy thread-bare Answer it seemes you are forc'd to make Scripture your Rule to prove this or that is out of doors and to be despised as plausible as it looks Again â—f the Scriptures be our Rule in any particular cases and I think we live up to it more then thou dâ—est witness thy three impious Dialogues yet this concludes not the matter in Question for thee since it proves not the Scriptures to be eminently the Rule or the most eminent or general Rule c. But T. H. why has E. B. transgress'd more than either Prophets or Apostles yea then Christ himself when he to such carnâ—l men as thy self seemed so unkind and harsh in his Answer and Rebuke of Peter's Love and Care of him as to say Get thee behind me Satan The Priest that E. B. gave those Names no one of which was harder then Satan was never half so kind to him as Peter was to Christ Nay they were entrapping Questions such as they used to assault Christ with when they sought occasion against him whom he called Children of the Devil And we know that some of thy race T. H. in the former times when power was in your Hands diligently sought matter against us G. Fox was about the same time indicted for Blasphemy and endeavours great in some of the old Pharisaical stock thy Brethren to take away his Life E. B. knew whom and what he answer'd And I do say that by thy Argument about the Scriptures being the Rule without further Regard thou oughtest to stop thy Mouth unless thou canst prove that E. B. had not the same Warrant the holy men of old had to name thy Predecessors by to do which thou must come to the discerning of Spirits And by what wilt thou perform that enquiry and Judgment How canst thou tell whether a man using Christ's Words to Peter to a loving Disswader of him from Sufferings that onely intends his Good is well or ill done The Scripture is no Rule for our discerning aright this case nor is it his Duty in case he be in the right because Christ's words are there recorded unless he be thereto prompted of the same Power Yet if he say so and be reproved by any 't is and must be granted that there is an Example which shuts the Mouthes or should do of all who respect the Scripture which is our case with thee Well but Christ had no Provocation by Peter's words but the Spirit that lurkt in them which savour'd not the Work of God then doing To relish the like case aright there must be the same Spirit which T. H. rejecting for the Rule of right Judgment to be sure he can be no right Judge of E. B. But upon his own Opinion ought to be silent from further Clamour against him and repent of his scurrulous reproachful Language with which he has so often run over his Grave But thou chargest p. 86. Nicholas Lucas with saying That if the Bible were burnt as good an one might be writ and though he denies it yet thou tell'st us it is never the less a Lye for that and that he knows his Accusers But suppose it were true had it not more become an Anabaptist and a Preacher too especially when one of the Scriptures in thy Title Page is A Man that is an Heretick after the 1 st and 2 d Admonition reject who never dealt so with either him or us that thou so hast publickly writ against as such first to have dealt with N L. about it and granting he had been so obstinate in a wicked Saying as thou Dialoguest him to be had this been a sufficient Ground for thee to charge it upon the Persons and Principles of the People called Quakers But now thou hast given the World a Saying to measure us by that first is of several years standing and but lately raked up and might have been either at first mis-apprehended or some word forgotten or mis-placed 2dly That N. L. denies that he ever spake it by a serious Certificate in G. W's Append. confirm'd by H. Stout appeal'd to by thy Anabaptist Informers which thou hast not so much as attempted to invalidate 3dly That he abhors the Matter contained in the Story and that without all mental Reserves And 4thly That it 's charged upon and made to be the Measure of Vs and our Principles and Motions thereby making us to blaspheme God's Spirit as well as reprobate Scripture and that with no small
him for this great Scandal to their Profession But suppose I meant the whole Law of God in that place I see no worse Consequence from my words then this That so far as man's Obedience to God's Law is requisite to his Acceptance so far only Christ became our Example For as he was not our Pattern in things that more peculiarly related to him to perform and finish so was he no more then our Pattern in that which is our constant Duty to do Now let T. H. snap and catch what he can with all his Legâ—rdemains pag. 69. only take this along with him That by his Reflection upon that Argument viz. That Christ hath not SO fulfilled the Law for us as to exclude our Obedience from being requisite to our Acceptance he implies a Denyal of the Nâ—cessity of Obeying the Law of God to Acceptance with God A Doctrine suited to his Practice contrived and continued to the Ease of Hypocrites no wonder he struggles so hard for it for without it nothing but Horror would surround him though at this rate he must not alwayes expect to escape the Blow I mean not assassinating of him a Trick that lives nearer his Complexion then mine but that Vengeance Which is the Recompence of every Soul that loveth and maketh a Lye With you the People called Anabaptists I leave this Section Right us Right your selves Right our Profession of such an Unfair Adversary and your selves of so Scandalous an Advocate § II. That T. Hicks has grosly Perverted our Writings TO Forge is bad but to Pervert may in a Senâ—e be worse since it is to mis-use true words and by Disguise twist them to a Sense never intended when many times that which is false it undiscernably swallowed for the sake of something that 's true This was another Charge I exhibited againâ—t T. Hicks and an Argument by which I proved him no Christian I frequently in my Book took Occasion to detect him of this Unworthy Practice and more especially by 26 instances under a distinct Head containing ten pageâ— our Principles in one Column and his Perversions in another but he seems dumb to the Charge Shall I enter him mute that may alter but not excuse the Punishment Assâ—ssinating always excepted I shall Reader for thy sake and the Truth 's produce some of them that those to whom this may come may have some Account of his Carriage in his former Dialogues I. From our Belief of the Light 's Sufficiency to save he infers That all other Means are needless Dial. 1. p. 36 37. not considering it was not the Light 's Insufficiency but man's Weakness that occasion'd them He might object Insufficiency as well against God Christ Spirit Grace c. II. From our making the Illumination in man to be a natural Emanation or Product of the divine Word which made all things he wickedly turns it to An Effect of God's Power and so sayes we would make Beasts and Trees c. also divine Ibid. p. 4. III. From our asserting that the Light of Christ shineth within the Hearts of Wicked as well as Good Men He tells People in our Name that he is in the Heart of every Wicked Man as he is in his Saints Cont. p. 45 46. Though through Rebellion they partake not of his Life Power c. IV. From our affirming that God is the Teacher of his â—eople He infers That we deny all Ministry and Visible Worship though they stand in God's Power and Spirit 1 Dial. p. 42 43. V. From our believing Christ to be in his People according to express Scripture and that as such he is crucified by Wicked Men He infers That we deny Christ to be as well without as within or that he was ever crucified in the Flesh 1 Dial. p. 44. Contin pag. 37 40 42. VI. From our denying of their rigid Satisfaction that is that Christ was punished by his Father for our Sin and that Sins past present and to come are answered for And that men may be Holy by Virtue thereof though not new but old Creatures and so unholy in themselves He unworthily concludes That We disown Christ's Death and Sufferings as a Propitiation that it carried away Sins past and sealed Remission in his Blood to as many as believe And that we expect to be both forgiven and accepted not for Christ's sake nor in his Sacrifice Righteoussness but our own Works 1 Dial. p. 9 10. Contin 48 49 50 51 52 53. VII From our pleading for a Perfection from Sin and the Duty of growing to the Fulness of the Measure c. He infers Our Denyal of Perfection in Degrees and our Belief of as high a Degree of Perfection in this World as hereafter Dial. 1 pag. 48 49 50 51. VIII Because we say that such Works as are wrought by the Holy Spirit in us are necessary to Eternal Life and may in a sense be said to obtain it since the Lord hath â—o freely offered it upon the Condition of believing and â—being which are the Fruits of the Spirit of God in man T. Hicks suggests in our Name That we expâ—ct to merit â—ternal Life by our good Works and those of our own Working as the Spider weaves his Webb out of his own Bowels Dial. pag. 38. Contin pag. 51 52. IX Because we say All Spiritual Liberty stands in God's Power that redeems from Sathan's Snares He inferreth That who are not of our Way should have no Liberty Cont. pag. 85. X. Because we say The Scriptures are not the great Gospel Rule but the Spirit The Dispensation of the Spirit being that of the Gospel more peculiarly and that without it we cannot understand or savingly believe any thing declared of in the Scripture and therefore that it is our Rule for believing the Scriptures them selves He basely suggests That the Quakers cast off alâ— Precepts in the Scriptures and so will not bring their Cheats and Impostures to the Test thereof counting them of no more Authority then Esop's Fables Dial. 1. p. 20 21 22 23 24 30 31 32 33 34 35 36. Contin Epist to the Reader Behold your Anabaptist-Preacher XI From our preaching men to a lost God and Christ that is to God and Christ whom they have lost Fellowship with He perverts it to our believing That God and Christ were in a lost or undone Condition Cont. p. 49. XII From our asserting that what was a Command to any Servant of God in old time is not so to us because so to them that is such as Moses's going to Pharoah the Performance of Types Shadows and Figurâ—s appointed for a Season and to pass off unless requir'd by the same Spirit anew He falsly infers That those Moral and Eternal Precepts Thou shalt have no other God but me Thou shalt not Murder Commit Adultery Steal Bare False Witness c. are not binding upon us but that we give our selves the Liberty of such horrid Principles as the contrary to those Principlâ—s and
the Bishop of Can Fox here intend that Christ is the Bishop of the Divine Life c. Yet is he as absurd in calling Christ the Bishop of the Soul For if the Soul be part of God's Beâ—ng and Christ be God thâ—n one part of God must be Bâ—shâ—p over another Ibid p. 21 22. Q. Suppose this Cavil had any tâ—ing in it and that thou hadst herein faithfully represented our Belief might not I retort upon thy own Creed that God is the Father of God And when Christ prayed God prayed to God since the One Nature could not pray without the other and the Spirit makes Intercession that is God intercedes with God What thinkst thou of this T. Hicks Besides I told thee then that God inspired man with something of his own Substance in the Name of R. Nahmanni Hiskuni and P. Fagius That God contributed something to him and bestowed something of his own Divinity upon him and that thou didst manifest thy self an ungodly Person for inferring that what is vulgarly call'd the Soul of Man to wit the meer Creature is part of God's own Substance because we asserted that the Life Breath or Soul as it may very well be term'd which God breathed into man was of his own Being and Substance what sayest thou to his C. If G. F. be understood to speak with Reverence to the Soul then my Inference is natural proper viz. That the Soul is of God's Substance and part of God's Being p. 22. Q. Are all thy Brags come to this Take Soul as before expressed and it is granted without any Dammage to our Doctrine For the Scriptures that testifie God communicated of his own Breath or Life unto Man whereby he became a living Soul do not confound man and that Divine Life no more doth G. F. he never affirmed Man to be God his own words distinguish them viz. God breathed into man c. and consequently that Man is not that Breath of God which he inspired Man with Again G. F. in many of his Writings speaks of the Fallen and Degenerated State of Men the great Pollution and Wiâ—kednâ—ss thâ—y lie and live in and that hâ—avy Wrath and Vengeance which will follow all which concerns Man and not that Divine Life God hath breathâ—d into Man It was not That but Adam which was beguiled Had Adam liv'd in That Life he had been preserved But suppose what I said granted the Question as it did not Many Great and Learned Men have run in the same Line and they escaped the Cryes of Blasphemy Absurdity and the rest of thy Exclamatory Termes from Millions What makest thou keep such a Barking at us Is it that thou haâ—t more Authority or less Candor Before I conclude this Section I would put thee in mind of a double Injustice thou hast committed The one was in making this false Prophane Consequence That God sets up a Light in himself which he himself is to obey and in so doing God shall be saved to follow from G. F's words forecited The second is in thy giving this sharp Rebuke for this Passage as an Answer in thy Dialogue without so much as inserting one word of it that thou mightst cover thy own Unrighteousness and render me severe These Tricks T. H. will never compass thy End but greatly contribute to fruâ—â—rate it §. III. Concerning the Redemption of the Seed Counterfeit FOrasmuch as Christ came to seek and to save that which was lost I did query who or what was that which was lost Ibid. p. 34. Quaker I know thou didst and that thou madest G. Keith answer That which is lost is still in man that Christ came to seek and save and all his Ministers preached People to this A lost God a lost Christ c. Upon which thou madest this Exclamation Blush Oh Heavens and be Astonished O Earth c. Did Jâ—sus Christ come to seek and save a lost God a lost Christs was ever God and Christ in a LOST CONDITION I told thee then and do still that the Heavens and the Earth might blush at thy base Dealings with G. K. I also told thee as thou hast cited me that he intended no other then that Christ came to seek and to save by turning People to enquire after a lost God and a lost Christ What sayst thou to this C. If by Lost we must not understand man's lost Condition what less can be understood but that Jesus came to seek and to save a lost God 'T is true G. K speaks of People's FINDING a lost God whom they had lost Ibid. p. 35. Q. If this be true that G. K. so speaks to wit that by lost God he understood People's loosing of God what 's become of thy Blush O Heavens c. Is God and Christ in a lost Condition It is well thou art drawn to confess this against thy self C. But still if Lost be meant only of God and Christ how can Christ be said to seek and save a lost God Ibid. Q. No such words ever fell from G. K. to any such Question as thou makest them an Answer to Thou hast unworthily perverted both his Words and Sense Though lost be said of God yet the Loss is Man's For every man who hath lost God is truly in a lost Condition But to apply that lost Condition to God and not man becauâ—e man hath lost God and is admonished to seek after a lost God is to commit great Injury against us as thou hast attempted with thy silly Insâ—nuation viz. If Lost he meant ONLY of God and Christ c. What poor begging Shifts art thou put to C. But to put the Reader out of Doubt that what I infer is indeed your very Opinion G. F. and J. N. tell us that the Seed wants Redemption and the Seed is Christ either then there must be more Christs then one or Christ came to redeem himself Ibid. Q. Is it to put us out of Doubt to leave it in Doubt whether G. F. and J. N. ever said any such thing or these words as laid down together for thoâ— referrest to no Book But suppose it be true will it bear thy Inference therefore God and Christ are in a lost Condition Is it all one to say that Christ is bruiâ—ed and oppressed and crucified afresh by wicked Men and put to open Shame and to say That Christ is in a lost Condition If it be not as every ordinary Capacity may easily see how needless as well as how false is this Rant of thine p. 36. viz. Wilt thou assert the very thing which I infer from your Words and yet say I pervert them May we not justly esteem of thee as a heady rash and inconsiderate young Man c. Thus T. H where it is impossible for thee to make good thy Conclusions thou tellest me of granting the Charge and then fallest into thy usual Insults the better to insinuate a Credence of thy Ability and Honesty with thy Reader C. But is it
he loâ—â— Suffering thou froward he was good to his Enemiâ—â— thou base to thy Neighbours Surely thou hast forgâ—â— that if thou walkest as he walked thou must have do with that dangerous Doctrine of Perfection as thou else where reputest it But at thy Rate of quoting this Scripture and following of Christ thou mayst as well bring in Circumcision and the Passover as Baptism and the Supper Christ told his Disciples The Spirit should lead them into all Truth after his Ascension and his beloved Disciple John referred the Churches to the Anointing C. You tell us these Ordinances were used as Figures and Shadows no longer to endure then till the Substance comes viz. The Baptism of the holy Ghost The Reason can be no other then the vain Conceit of a deluded mind for they are no Figures of the Baptism of the Spirit therefore this can be no Reason for the abolishing of them Christ commands his Apostles to teach and baptize promising to be with them to the End of the World Q. Who ever said that Breaking of Bread was a Figure of the Spirit 's Baptism It 's a meer Fiction of thy making as p. 107. of Reas against Rail will shew But if Water-Baptism and Breaking of Bread are no Figures nor Shadows they must be Substances and what Difference then there is between thee and Popery in this Point let the Reader judge And for Christ's bidding his Disciples Go teach baptizing Matth. 28. I told thee That no Water was mentioned and that Luke in the first of the Acts sayes before the Commission mentioned by Matthew could be given at least executed John baptized with Water but ye shall be baptized with the holy Ghost not many Dayes hence And then comes the Commission in Force Go teach baptizing how with the holy Ghost turning People from Darkness tâ— Light from the Power of Satan unto God C. If the Baptism of the holy Ghost do put this Commission in Force as thou saist then the Obligation to those Duties signified in the Commssion cannot be taken off If so thy Argument falls Q. A poor Shuffle indeed Does my Argument fall because thou beggest the Question which is Whether their Baptism be with Water or the holy Ghost C. If Baptism of Water be not intended then none not the Baptism of Afflictions for the Apostles were not to persecute Not the Baptism of the holy Ghost for that was a Promise not a Commission p. 63. Q. Thou dost but triffle with us still Though to be baptized was a Promise yet to baptize was a Commission To be baptized not many Dayes hence was the Promise of Christ but go and baptize all Nations which followeth was a Commission and that it was with no other Baptism Christ's Distinction sufficiently proves viz. John indeed baptized with Water but ye shall be baptized with the holy Ghost not many Dayes hence stay till then and go and teach baptizing all Nations c. C. To baptize with the holy Ghost was none of their Duty it being properly Christ's Work p. 63. Q. It was both their Work and Duty witness that Simon Magus would have bought that Gift of Peter And that Paul baptized with the holy Ghost Acts 19. Did he not therein do his Duty C. Is it proper to say I baptize you with the Spirit into the Name of the Spirit Q. Yes if thou hast the Spirit unless thou wouldst make a counterfeit Christiaen of him whom thou without the Spirit baptizest into the Name of the Spirit wouldst thou have a Man baptized into the Name and not into the Nature of the Spirit Can a Man baptize into Spirit and into Life without Spirit and Life God did convert reconcile baptize beget and build up Thousands to himself by them unto whom the VVord of Reconciliation was committed and who were Embassadors in Christ's stead Now as for Water-Baptism what Paul sayes of himself I may say of his Commission It was not behind any of the rest yet he denies Water-Baptism to be any Part of it and is as plainly rejected of him in Point of Institution as any Thing in Scripture So that either Water-Baptism is none of Christ's Institutions or else Paul had no Commission to perform Christ's Institutions which were strange T. Collier determines this The Baptism of Christ is the Baptism of the Spirit But if any of you can shew a larger Commission then Paul had let him produce it if not I must conclude they Run and are not Sent. §. VII Of the Doctrine of Justification I Perceive â—y what thou hast writ of Justification thou intenâ—st to end at the rate thou hast manag'd the Controversie all along I mean with the same shuffles and injustice I will set down thy Charge the Answer thou makest me give and thy Reply C. Thou hast holdly affirm'd that Justification by that Righteousness Christ fulfilled for us wholely without us to be a Doctrine of Devils Apol. pag. 148. What sayst thou is this Q. This Apology cited was written against a malitious Priest in Ireland Reas ag Rail p. 68. If thy Position cannot be prov'd it will be no Excuse to say It was given to a malitious Priest yea thy Folly and Rashness is the more aggravated c. p. 96. Q. As if I had given that Answer not to inform Persons against whom the Book was writ and the Occasion of the Passage but as one unable to say any thing in my Defence to extenuate the Fact and Excuse my writing it I perceive rather then want Occasions to Abuse me thou wilt make them But what sayst thou concerning Justification C. Thou supposest the Doctrine of Justification by that Righteousness which Christ fulfilled wholely without us to be a Sin-pleasing and dangerous Notion What Reason hast thou so to esteem it p. 67. Q. I do so taking my Words in my Sense and my Reasons are 1st Because wholely witâ—out us is an unscriptural phrase 2 dly It takes away the necessity of all Inward Work 3 dly No man is justified without Faith No man hath Faith without Sanctification and Works therefore the Works of Righteousness by the Spirit are necessary to compleat Justification C. Whether a sincere Faith is necessary to our Justification is one thing But whether such a Faith be our sole Righteousness by which we are Justified is another p. 67. Q. And whether T. H. be not aâ— idle Shifter is another thing Was it the Question Whether our Faith were the sole Righteousness to Justification or whether Justification were by a Righteousness wholy without us and our Faith too If a sncere Faith be necessary then because Faith is not Faith without Work Justification is not wrought wholely without I told thee before that this Doctrine of thine speaks Peace to the Wicked whilst wicked But there is no Peace to the Wicked saith my God C. It is horrible wicked to conclude that what Christ hath done and suffered without us is to speak Peace to the Wicked whilest such
Auditory to prove thee guilty of Forgeries Self-contradictions and gross Errours from thy own Dialogues Instead of yielding to the Test even about matter of Fact where thou hast grossely abus'd us thou didst in plain termes shuffle by a fresh proposal of Question as if thou wert to teach us where and what to charge our Enemies with and then prescribe Rules with many taunting Expressions omitted in thy 3d Dial how to behave our selves on purpose to evade the Meeting I would have thee know it was our Right to make the Complaint and hadst thou been a man of any Honesty thou wouldst readily have considered it and joyn'd issue upon our Charge This in Reputation to thy self as well as Justice to us thou oughtst not to have declin'd And yet to aggravate these shuffles G. W. proffer'd in his 4th paper to thee a note of the particulars charg'd as Forgeries c. if thou desiredst it so willing was he and others to have seen thee in a publick Auditory Bâ—t seeing this would not do he and I went to John Gladman's desiring him to offer thee from us we wouâ—d meet thee and who else to defend thee in a publick Auditory with thy Dialogue in one band and the Bible in the other the fairest of tenders to make thy own Book the Subject and the Scriptures thou sayst we reprobate A Rule But this thou canst not but know was also rejected So that to conceal these Shifts nay to say thou art Shuffler and which is worse to charge G. W. with both Shuffling and Lying at what time thou art so manifestly guilty of both is to highten thy Vnworthiness to a monstrous pitch But as the Matter of thy Book is injurious so thy Languague insolent and scurrulous intitling us Cheats Impostors a mad arrogant abusive prophane Mâ—n Knave in discourse Coxcomb impious Cursers Lyars Blasphemers most implacable Enemies to the Christian Religion as vile Impostors as ever were influenced and inspired by the grand Impostor the Devil calling our Religion malignant Errors a mystical Romance Satan's Snarâ—s Blasphemy blasphemous Absurdâ—ties I proclaim to the World that your Religion is a meer Cheat calculated only to the Service of the Devil and your own Lusts and abusing our religious Language with such like Expressions as these Impertinent Canting your idle non-sensical and blasphemous Prating Termes that as much unbecome thy Pretences as they resemble the rest of thy Practices Canst thou with good Conscience upbraid E. B. with rebuking a Priest in Scripture Language whilst thou hast taken the Liberty throughout thy Dialogues when and where thou weâ—t never provok'd of such foul and frothy Expressions as becomes not any Man writing of Religion Is this to make the Scripture thy Rule or to act the Christian against the Quaker and to prove the Quaker none No such matter T. H. but much the contrary and that in the minds of not a few and those too of thy own Way though of a better Spirit who have disown'd them Root and Branch I would not after thy Example reprobate all with thee God forbid That God has turned these ill design'd Attempts to our Advantage remember what sort of Salute was lately given thee by a Religious and Ingenious Person in Bristol once a Preacher among the Independents at thy reflecting upon his adhering to the Way we profess viz That he read thy Dialogues before he ever read the Quakers Books or Answers and that the disingenuity of that Dealing apprehending it to be no real Dialogue was a FURTHERANCE of his INQUIRIES and so of his CONVICTIONS grounded upon thy ABUSES an Argument never to be answer'd by thee T. H. if thou shouldst write Three Dialogues more unless they were as remote from these as thou wert from Honesty when thou writ'st them who doest first Forge and then Lye and Rail to maintain it Think not with these Comical Courses to obtain thy Ends upon us nor raze the Foundation of our Religion by thy abusive Interludes in which thou hast not imitated Christ but Ap'd the prophane Stager writing a sort of Mock Religion instead of solid Controversie therein playing the Humourist with the Vulgar like Aristophanes of old though with worse Malice and less Wit who sacrific'd the Vertue and Gravity of Socrates and his Friends to please their Enemies and profit himself the Hinges on which thy Dialogues turn The First is manifest and so is the Last to the value of 300 Books at an Impression if some of thy Assistants do not wrong thee as we suppose not ask the Bookseller else besides â—erquisites hereby proving thy self one of those unruly Vain-Talkers who writest things thou oughtest not for filthy Lucre sake applyed to us in thy Title-page but due to thy Self And however sweet these Courses may relish to thy worldly Palate thou wilt find them deadly Poysonous in the End at what time thy own Dialogues and not I nor any influenced by me will prove so many ASSASSINATORS in thy own Bowels God if it please him give thee Repentance that thou mayst escape his fierce VVrath to come Amen Now sober Reader I shall address my self to thee and God's righteous VVitness in thy Conscience whether I have acquitted my Self in this Controversie as becomes a Christian-man against the Violent Uâ—fair Aâ—â—â—ults of my Adversary and if I may not with very good Reason conclude that he has all this while but counterfeited the Christian and abused the Quaker and consequently that he and not the real Quaker is quite another thing then a Christian Let Righteous Judgment take place 23d 6th Mon. 1674. A true Lover and hearty Wisher of thy Souls Felicity W. P. Not every one that sayth unto me Lord Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven but he that doth the Will of my Father which is in Heaven Mat. 7.21 For he is not a Jew which is one outward neither is that Circumcision which is outward in the Flesh But he is a Jew which is one inwardly and Circumcision is that of the Heart in the Spirit and not in the Letter whose Praise is not of Men but of God Rom. 2.28 29. But us then he that was born after the Flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit even so it is now Gal. 4.29 But be of good chear I have overcome the World Jo. 16. last Pag. 13. line 7. read two first Dialogues p. 34. l. 32. r. Dial. 3. p. 41. p. 35. l. 28. r. spoak l. 31. r. was p. 41. l. 26. r. 76. p. 46. l. 14. r. of â—his A Postscript by another Hand WE expect to hear what the Baptists in and about London will say as being appeal'd to concerning their Brother Thomas Hick's Proceeding in his Three Dialogues and whether they approve thereof or of such Play-Books or Romances about Religion yea or nay for they are highly concerned to give Judgment and to be plain to the World herein as they tender the Glory of God and Reputation of Religion c. NOw if you the Teachers and Elders c. among the Baptized People do not publickly clear your selves of Thomas Hicks and these his unjust Proceedings against us and hereafter he further persists therein VVe may take it for granted that you own his VVork and may justly deal with him and pursue him not only as Tho. Hicks but as the Baptists great Champion peculiar Agent or Representative But if you ingenuously clear your selves of him and his Corrupt Perverse VVork then his future Miscarriages will be chargeable only upon T. Hicks himself and you will appear to the VVorld so far clear thereof and approve your selves the more honest and sincere towards God Truth and Religion THE END * Not that I allow him to have rightly châ—rgd us in every thing in that Sense neither * Which was only admitted with respect to its Illumination or Measure of its Appearance in man It was never G. W's Principle or Words tâ—aâ— the Life which is the Light of men Joh. 14. is but in it seâ—f a meâ—r Effect for he owns it in its oâ—n Being to be no other then God himseâ—f and values not the Counterfeit's Quarrel * T. H. takes that literally which is metaphorically spoken both in Scripture and our Books and makes liâ—eral Consequences upon metaphorical Premises as if â—od had Hands Eyes Head Arms could be imbondaged broken c. after a Worldly Manner or in â— strict and proper Sense and â—ot rather in a more hiddeâ—â— c Metaphorical Signification He is herein eâ—ther very blind or very maliâ—ious I would ask him how he knows the Scriptures extanâ— are perfect both as to Number and Copy and Translations Several Books are â—oft that is certain does the Scripture tell us what they contâ—ined if not the Rule is impeâ—fect by T. H s Consequence The Copies are above Thirty in Number at least in which there are Thousands of different Readings the Translators greatly differ and have greatly câ—rrupted Aâ—so T. H is to look to prove the present Collection Canonical If he pleads the Testimony of â—od within his Cause is gone if Tradiâ—ion I ask how Is he assured the first Canon was rightly made The Council as either Faâ—â—ible or Infallible If the First what Assurance haâ— he If the last it grants Infallibiâ—ity since the Apostles 360. Years but begets the Quâ—stion How does T. H. know they were in the right And if in one Thing why not in alâ— But those â—ouncils conâ—radicted and none ever gave the Cataâ—ogue as now it is nor can T. H. give a Canon for it And if he cannot assure us that it is eâ—â—ct with the Origâ—nal free from Variation Corruption Mâ—s-translation c. as it is not he can never prove it the Rule as he eâ—â—eavour in Opposition to the Spirit for thaâ— iâ— alwayes pâ—in and peâ—fect But more of thiâ— in the Christâ—an Qâ—aker not to lessen Scrâ—pture but to conâ—ound such Caviâ—â—ers
Aggravation who are innocent by never speaking the Words by never countenancing such Words by not holding the Matter directly or indirectly contained in them and we do utterly renounce and abhor both the one and the other Well T. Hicks God will plead our Cause against the Malignity of thy Slanderous Spirit No Justice no Discretion could ever have led thee to this monstrous pitch of Abuse thou shewest how glad thou art to bedirt us by making other Folks Lyes thy Charges and then insisting on them with as much Confidence as if thou wert infallibly assured of every jot But we have some cause to suspect thee more then ever thy Tale wears so many Dresses One while it is Thou mayst burn thy Bible and write as good an one thy self Contin p. 5. Another while We may burn our Bible and make as good an one our self Dial. 3. pag. 3. And last of all it is to go thus If the Bible were burnt as good an one might be writ ibid. p. 86. Now T. H. answer thou that pretendest to such punctuality which of these are we to take The first is unlikely because what ever we think we could do to be sure thou canst not think that a Quaker should have so good an Opinion of an Anabaptist Woman as that she could write another Bible as good as this that we are sure understands not this If we must take thee in thy second Account then the Woman is out in her first Story If in the last Relation of this Fiction then it concerns the Quakers no more then the Anabaptists For suppose the World were under one Emperor and he so impious as to enjoyn the burning of all the Bibles and all were burnt I hope they are not so irreligious as to limit God's Power who is Almighty that he could not furnish us with one as good as this especially since Christians would else as you must hold be without a Rule for I would have thee take notice T. H. that thou hast so materially varied in thy Charge that now it is not whether if the Bible were burnt any Man could make as good an one but whether if it were by such Impiety burnt as good an one might not be writ which words are general Here T. H. to give the his due thou hast helpt thy Fiend Quaker by bringing him in saying what T. H. unless he would question God's Omnipotency dare not deny But to conclude either these Mistakes proceed from the first Authors or from T. H. If from the first Authors why should they be credited at all who show such incertainty if from T. Hicks what Reason has he to be so infallibly sure of their Memories who is not sure of his own Books much less of his own Memory being found in such manifest Variations But since every just Judge accounts that Accuser and Witness of little Credit that are found divers and inconsistent in their Stories I hope my sober Reader who is made judge betwixt us will in justice cashier T. Hicks from all Credit with him in these attempts But as against N. L. so against S. Eccles T. H. has publishâ— a foul Slander viz. That he should say the Scriptures are a Lye This G. W. Appeâ—d p. 12. reflected upon thee as an abusive and false Charge To which I cannot find that thou sayst any more then this that one of thy Witnesses against N. L. can testifie that S. E. said he used Scripture onely to satisfie him Dial. 3. p. 86. Doubtless that Witness has long Eares thou hangst so fast by them But he can witness it But why does he not Is that Put-off like to confirm the Charge But granting thy Witness remembers better against S. E. then N. L. Does S. E ' s. saying that he us'd Scripture to satisfie his Opponent prove that he said the Scriptures were a Lye Do men use to prove Truths by Lyes Doth not this make S. E. imply the Lye to his own Principles which he quoted Scripture to prove real Truths What sayst thou T. H. Is this to â—vince the truth of thy Objections and Charges against the Quakers and secure thy Credit with thy own and other People that carries with it what merits the Detestation and Rebuke of every honest mind But that thou mayst go out with the same braving Rant thou camest in with and the like Honesty thou tellest thy Reader that W. P. is guilty of wilful Lying in saving that thou disingenuously slankedst from a publick Meeting and evadedst the offer made thee by G W to that purpose It is not unlikely but thou takest thy old Way of proving which is in the end to detect thy self of that thou chargest me wâ—th the Guilt of First thou sayst that long before my Book was out thou didst desire to meet with me and I refused But doth this prove me guilty of wilful Lying in charging thee with evading the offer made for a publick Disputation Are the termes of a Meeting for a publick Disputation in thy Answer If not How does thy Answer reach the Question VVell But I refus'd to do what To meet a Man in private that had twice printed a Knave a Fool an Heretick a Blasphemerâ— and I know not how much more either in those Termes or in Circumlocution to the VVorld No such matter T. H. I never intend to release thee from the Burden and Shame of so many publick and manifest Villanies as thou hast committed against me a Stranger to thee in all respects and my Friends in general that it may be never heard of such a man Besides Let me tell thee I look upon thee to be so base a Person that as I shall always desire to have nothing to do with thee for that cause and not thy Abilities so I never intend to trust my self in such private manner with any man that is detected of such notorious Perversion Lying and Forgery there being no Security to any one in common conversing with thee save that thou deservest no Credit against any man who hast so publickly forfeited all Credit in thy numerous fictions against us But to prove thou hast not evaded the publick Meeting thou tellest thy Reader that thou didst send six Questions to G. W. to debate them upon notice in a convenient time and place that he refus'd therefore G. W. did both shuffle and lye which is the great shuffle of thy 3d. Dial. in little or the Evasion or thy whole Book Epitomized For as thou hast pretended in thy 3d. Dial. that the Evincement of the own Objections was all that we required or stood thee upon to do so here thou makest as if the Discussing of those Objections herein consider'd had bin all there was any ground to dispute upon which was for thee who art the Abuser to chuse a Charâ—â— for the abused to insist upon But why didst thou noâ—â—ell thy Reader that G. W. first sent thee a Charge in writing and that he offered in a publick