then the father and the sonne both do really and essentially inhabite in the harts of so many as obserue the word which how absurd it is to auouch your selfe may consider Besides that if you so strictly doe tye your selfe to the obseruation of words how vnderstand you this scripture The good Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and an euil Spirit of the Lord came vpon him Would you haue vs to imagine fromhence that king Saul himselfe was really possest with an euill spirit or a diuel Lycanthropus Yea what other thing else Orthodoxus Then may we by the same reason conclude that Saul also before that time was really possest with the good spirit of God For when Samuel annointed him king it was said in like sort that the spirit of the Lord should come vpon him Againe that the spirit of the Lord it came vpon Saul Yea then may we likewise conclude that Dauid also himselfe he was really possest with the good spirit of God for it is said that after Dauid was annointed the spirit of the Lord came vpon him Now then tell me I pray you whether you thinke that Saul and Dauid were really possest with the good spirit of God and that the spirit did essentially enter into them Lycanthropus I vnderstand it euen so I assure you Orthodoxus Why man besides the absurditie arising thence the verie letter it selfe importeth a quite contrarie sence to that which you seeme to insert For the wordes of the text are not thus the spirit of the Lord entred into them but the spirit of the Lord came vpon them both Howbeit whether it had beene the spirit of the Lord entred into them or came vpon them it is al one in effect and may in no wise be vnderstood of anie essential possession but of an effectual operation of that spirit of God whether good or euil For in euerie of those places the word in the original is tsalac Which Ierome translates leaped vpon them Lyra he hath entred forciblie vpon them Pagnine he hath rested vpon them Tremellius he hath rushing vpon them Montanus he hath prospered vpon them None of al these howsoeuer they differ in termes they dreame not you see of anie real possession at al. Yea and the word tsalac also it selfe if we respect the natiue signification is properlie to be translated thus The spirit of the Lord preuailed had prosperous successe did happelie proceede or prospered greatlie in Saul and in Dauid al which hath relation to the efficacie and not to the essence of the spirit at all Otherwise if notwithstanding al this your selfe wil needes vnderstand in that place an essential entrance or real possession the grosse absurditie thereof may more plainlie appeare by the conference of this one with some other places of scripture where the selfesame word is also in vse As first where Eleazar saith vnto Laban hinder you me not sith the Lord bath prospered my iourney Would you expound it thus hinder me not sith the Lord hath caused my iorney verie really and essentially to enter into me Againe where it is said that whatsoeuer the godlie man doth it shall prosper Should we translate it thus the godly mens waies shal substantiallie enter into him Againe where the holie ghost saith vnto Salomon prosper thou with thy glorie Should we expound it thus let thy glorie substantiallie and reallie possesse thy person Briefly where Ieremie complaineth thus why doe the waies of the wicked prosper must we imagine that the waies of the wicked doe enter essentiallie into their bodies and soules that were to to absurd And yet in such a strict tying of our selues to the word we may by as good reason enterprete these places thus as those other of Saul and of Dauid the holie ghost vsing especially in euery of them al but one and the selfesame word Exorcistes If the scriptures be so intricate concerning these pointes what waies were we best to take for the vnderstanding of them aright Orthodoxus You must not be haled hedlong an end with an inueterate opinion receiued hand ouer head from hand to hand without further search or due trial of the trueth of the matter but must verie hartelie pray and most conscionablie depend vpon the holie spirit of God for a true vnderstanding and wisedome herein For seeing the proper nature of spirites and diuels is not in the sacred scriptures so exactly so plainely set downe as that thereby we may certeinly know them euen as they are in their proper and essential being we must therefore most humbly endeuour our selues very faithfully to imbrace and constantlie to beleeue the true sence of the scriptures concerning these points yea euen in such simple sort as the holy spirit of God who is the Lord of all spirites hath set downe the same Alwaies remembring this that spirites and diuels they are in the scriptures euermore spoken of as of spiritual substances howsoeuer for the onelie helpe of our slender capacities they be sometimes more groslie expressed by parables and metaphors and in a more sensible or corporal manner then otherwaies they are in themselues And therefore whereas it is said that the spirit of the Lord came vpon Balaam Othoniel Gedeon Iphthah Sampson Saul Dauid Azariah Ezechiel and others Moreouer where it is said that the Lord seperated the spirite of Moses and put in vpon the seuentie Elders againe that the spirit of Eliah was double vpon Elisha that Caleb had a spirit farre differing from the rest of the Israelites and that Daniel he had a more excellent spirite then al the rest yet that selfesame entrance into that resting vpon that multiplying that doubling and that excellencie of the spirit is not to be vnderstood of any real or essential possession but of an effectual and powerful operation of that selfesame spirit concerning the speciall worke for which it was sent So as although the spirites of the Lord whether good or euil are said to be giuen by proportion and nomber yet not the substance or quantitie but the condicion or qualitie of the spirit it selfe must be alwaies presupposed and ment thereby which is a point that I would haue you especially to consider throughout our whole conference concerning spirites and diuels Lycanthropus This I confesse is a verie good caution concerning the condition qualitie and operation of spirits Howbeit for any thing hetherto heard I can at no hand be perswaded but that the diuell albeit mans minde be free doth really and essentiallie enter into the possessed mans bodie Physiologus Goe to imagine that this your supposall were euerie waie sound and then do tell me withall what the diuell doth in the possessed mans bodie Lycanthropus What doth he there verie vntowardly I warrant you for euen in that selfesame bodie and by the helpe of that body he doth effectually accomplish and execute those
you the same by probable reasons Orthodoxus I proue it thus 1. The Angels they are either created or vncreated but not vncreated therefore created They cannot possiblie be vncreated substances for then they should also be infinite Howbeit Angels they are finite creatures for their actions are finite yea and then also their power it is finite But if they be of a finite power then also of a circumscriptible essence Moreouer it shall plainely appeere anon in place conuenient that Angels are finite creatures and definitiuely also in some certeine place which thing can not possible accord to any vncreated essence at all And therefore Angels they are not vncreated substances 2 Secondly I prooue it thus If Angels be vncreated then are they eternall but not eternall therefore not vncreated That they are not eternall it is verie apparant For then should they be such as haue neither beginning nor end of their essence as also their essence or nature it selfe should then be such as hath nothing in it either first or last But this agreeth onely to God himselfe and not to any creature in heauen or in earth And therefore if there be Angels then were they created and if created then created no doubt within the sixe daies as was shewed before And thus much for the proofe of this point by probable reasons Pneumatomachus Well Let vs heare next the testimonie of fathers concerning this Question Orthodoxus Withall my hart Wherein also for breuities sake I will onely but rehearse their names and referre you to the consideration of their seuerall treatises The authors be these Methodius Epiphanius Athanasius Augustine Eucherius Theodoretus and Damascenus All these doe verie confidenly auouch vpon speciall occasions and against the Manicheis the Priscillianists and other such heretikes that the Angels whatsoeuer were the vndoubted workmanship of God howsoeuer their creation is not apparantly layd forth in the sacred Scriptures Yea The Councels of Laterane and Bracha both do ioyntly determine that the Angels are created of God and are not eternall in so much as if any shall hold the contrarie they conclude him accursed of God Thus then you see it apparantly euident by Scripture by reasons and the testimonies also of sundrie fathers that Angels and spirits being finite creatures of God were vndoubtedly created within the sixe daies Pneumatomachus But in what day of those sixe were they created Orthodoxus Touching the verie day it selfe there is some difference in iudgement among the Diuines some hold they were created the first day and some the second But whether of both is not certainely concluded although it may probably be gathered they were in verie deed created the secondday thus That they were created before the third day may plainely be proued by the words of the Lord vnto Iob saying Where wert thou when I layd the foundations of the earth Declare if thou hast vnderstanding Who hath layd the measures thereof if thou knowest Or who hath stretched the line ouer it Where upon are the foundations thereof set Or who laide the corner stone thereof When the starres of the morning praised me and all the sonnes of God reioyced The Lord in that place by the sonnes of God vnderstandeth the Angels and spirits affirming moreouer that euen they also did celebrate his name with praise so soone as he had layd the earthes foundation Now the earth Moses saith was made the third day and therefore if the Angels on that day sang prayses to God it followeth necessarily they were then created before for how should they sing prayses before their creation But it is vnlikely they were the first day created because nothing on that day was created saith Moses but the confused Chaos from whence the rest of the creatures were orderly formed and that primarie light which separated the night from the day If followeth therefore that they were all created the second day together with that celestiall firmament vnder whose name is also contayned that supreme heauen which is called the third heauen paradice or the heauen of the blessed And this thing also is yet more plainely expressed by the words of our Sauiour Christ who saith that the kingdome of heauen was prepared for the elect 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the worlds foundation that is after the Lord vpon the very first day had created the Chaos aforesaid then by and by from out of that Chaos was brought the firmament as Moses affirmeth which the Lord God prepared for all the elect By all this it is euident that Angels and Spirits they are essential creatures of God created also within the six daies and so by consequence your vnanswerable argument is answered you see to the full Pneumatomachus I acknowledge no lesse But sir hauing layd downe the mayne grounds of my errour and answered directly my arguments it remaineth by promise that now likewise you produce your owne reasons to prooue plainely vnto me both spirits and Diuels Orthodoxus Verie true And therefore hauing first remooued the olde rubbish which ouerturned the rule of your reason it commeth now verie fitly in place to shew further vnto you that the Angels of God whether good or euill are truely essentiall and substantiall spirits as may plainely appeere by these following reasons first from their sundry names attributed vnto them thus 1 Names they are the signes and notions of things Which names when they signifie any thing properly subsisting of it selfe then that thing also it selfe is a substance no doubt But the Angels they are set forth by sundry names which do signifie substances For first they be called Angels that is to say messengers but a messenger or a minister appointed cannot but be a subsistance Also they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is intellectuall powers but that which hath vnderstanding and knowledge is vndoubtedly a substance Briefly they be called Satan that is an aduersarie also Diuels that is accusors also strong armed men also the God of this world the princes and powers of the ayre the gouernours of this world murderers roring lions the dragon the old serpent so forth All which seueral names do vndoubtedly signifie a thing subsisting wherein is a power from whence proceedeth an action and therefore there are essentiall spirits and Diuels 2 Againe if spirits and Diuels were onely but the secret motions and affections of men then vndoubtedly so many famous actions as the Scriptures record and the same also externally to the outward senses could in no wise accord vnto them but the consequent is false for the Scriptures apparantly and without any trope doe celebrate their office and record their sundrie actions namely that they stand before God serue him execute his precepts and iudgements that they doe daily assault tempt torment circumuent and seeke to deuoure vs and so foorth But how should these or any one of these
away my cogitations are violently taken from me I meane morashe lebabi the possessions of my hart That is those happie and comfortable cogitations which my soule in a good conscience by the blessing of God did chalenge to it selfe by a peculiar right or possession In like maner from iarash ariseth the word morashah which signifieth properly such a kinde of possession as people enioy by a certaine peculiar right as appeareth in Deuteronomie where the people say thus Moses commanded vs a law morashah kehillath Iaakob I meane a peculiar inheritance for the congregation of Iaakob That is such an inheritance as shall passe by an hereditarie right or possession among the house of Israel from generation to generation The like vse of this word morashah doth euidently appeare by those seuerall quotations of scripture which we haue purposely put downe in the Margine By all which it is verie apparant that albeit the holy Ghost should haue purposely vsed any one of these Hebrew words to expresse your pretended possession of Diuels yet could you not haue concluded from thence any such an essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men as you would beare vs in hand Licanthropus But doth not the Greeke word which the Septuagint vseth to expresse the word iarash import so much Orthodoxus Nothing lesse I assure you For from that word iarash ariseth orizo and orixomai which signifies to bound or determine the territories and possessions of land From thence also is deriued these following nownes namely orion and orismos which signifieth a bondarie a definition or constitution Also this word exorizo that is to exterminate or to disherite Also exorismos which betokenth an exile or banishment From whence also ariseth verie fitly the inheriting or dishinheriting or rather if you please the possessing and dispossessing of heirs The Gretians in like sort they vse another word called cleronomia which signifies properly an inheritance or rule of possessions Briefly albeit the holy Ghost in the new testament hath sundry words to set out the possession of things as appeareth by the places put downe in the Margine yet could no one of them all haue fitted your turne or possibly haue extended it selfe to this your pretended purpose By all the premisses then it is verie apparant that if the holy Ghost had euer determined to establish your supposed essentiall possession of Diuels he wanted not proper and significant wordes to expresse his said purpose Albeit notwithstanding if he had purposely put downe any one of these wordes either Hebrew or Greeke to import a possession vnto vs yet woulde no one of them all in any congruent speech haue euer beene able to auouch that essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men which your selfe woulde fondly conclude from our English translation without any warrant at all from the originall text Lycanthropus Though none of the Euangelistes haue precisely put downe in any one of those places no such word at all as may properly expresse the essentiall possession of spirits and Diuels perhaps yet they haue some other word else equiualent therewith in sence Orthodoxus Perhaps no and without al peraduenture they haue not For the very word it selfe which the holie Ghost obserueth in euerie of those your quoted Scriptures is Daemonizoménoi which with all true interpretours both Latine Italian French and English is ordinarily and vsually translated Demoniakes that is men Diuillished I meane actually afflicted tormented or vexed with Diuels But no one of them all did euer translate it thus namely men essentially possessed with Diuels inherently in them Yea this very word Daemonizoménos is not onely so translated but is so also vnderstood of the most iudiciall and soundest Diuines For not any one of them all do vnderstand the same of essentiall possessions but euery of them do take it to signifie onely some such extraordinarie actual affliction vexation or torment as Satan himselfe by the speciall appointment of God doth effectiuely inflict vpon men for a time If you haplie doe call the truth of that which I speake into question let their seuerall writings be exactly considered and then tell me whether any one of them all do vnderstand by Demoniakes any such persons as are essentially possest with a Diuell inherently in them as your selfe very fondly imagine and not such rather as by the extremitie of those their actuall torments are become outragiouslie furious cruell and quite out of order Thus then by all the premisses it is very apparant you see that neither by a proper significant terme nor by any other word else equiualent therewith neither yet by the translations of learned Interpretours or the exquisite iudgement of soundest Diuines you may from those your quoted scriptures in any possible or congruent order vndertake to conclude as you doe the essentiall possession of spirits and Diuels but must necessarilie take them onelie for such Demoniakes or diuellished persons as are actually afflicted tormented or vexed by Satan Lycanthropus Why then shoulde the translatour so presumptuously put downe the word possession if no such thing be apparant in all the originall Orthodoxus That there is no such matter there as your selfe supposeth you haue sufficiently heard before Neither did the translatour himselfe as it seemes intend any such essentiall possessions but onely an actuall vexation by Satan howsoeuer he did to careleslie put downe the word possession as a worde more familiar amongst vs. No surely it is certaine the Euangelist himselfe he neuer entended such essentiall possessions by the word Daemonizoménoi but onely an actuall affliction vexation or torment And therefore the other two Euangelistes Marke and Luke reporting with Mathewe those selfesame stories concerning the aforesaide Demoniakes they vse not the worde possessed at all But those whom Mathewe intituleth Demoniackes Marke termeth a man hauing an vncleane spirite and Luke he saith there mette Christ a man who had a Diuel a long time Making it a matter meerely indifferent and alone in effect to be a Demoniacke and to haue a Diuel or an vncleane spirite as for the word possessed they neuer vse it neither is the same found throughout the originall applyed to Diuels And vndoubtedlie these words possession or possessed being carelesly thrust into the texte hand ouer head by our English translators is not the leaste occasion that the whole world by a common receiued errour from hand to hand hath beene so vniuersallie possessed with manie grosse errours concerning the Diuel his supposed possession in man Moreouer whereas you boldely affirme that the Euangelist Mathew in euery place els where like occasion is offered doth vsuallie obserue the selfesame phrase that is not so For speaking of the woman of Canaans Demoniacke daughter he saith not haue mercy on me for my daughter is pitifully possessed but my daughter is miserably vexed with a Diuel Exorcistes What then I pray you doth your selfe vnderstand by the Diuel his power of possession Orthodoxus By
which is too too absurd as was told you before Lycanthropus I wonder you are so peremptory in denying this point I hauing not onely the Philosophers as you heard euen now but ecclesiastical fathers both old and new on my side Orthodoxus Your philosophers they shoote faire and farre off as you also haue heard euen now You say you haue fathers both old and new on your side let vs see first whether your old fathers doe come any neerer the marke Lycanthropus First Origen he flatly affirmeth that spirits and diuels are endued with their proper bodies Orthodoxus Origen if that booke be his owne is not to be regarded concerning this question because therein he doth nothing but play the Platonist iumpingfull patte with Psellus in euerie point And therefore he deserueth none other answere then that which was giuen to those other before Let vs heare more authentical fathers or end the discourse Lycanthropus Hilarie he saith there is nothing which in it owne substance and in respect of creation is not corporall And therefore spirits and diuels they hauing their substance and being created are also corporall Orthodoxus Hilarie he saith so indeed but giues no one reason of saying so It is not enough for your selfe to crie out and say Hilarie he speakes it vnlesse Hilarie also doth prooue what he speake which he doth not in the place you alleage He onely propoundeth the matter without any proofe and may easily be answered thus The soule of man it hath her substance and was also created and yet incorporall For or euer it was infused into the bodie and after the dissolution thereof it doth substantially exist and is also immortall accomplishing continually her animall operations Neither needes shee an humane bodie in any respect of her proper essentiall being but onely in regard of her organicall operations as was shewed before And therefore Hilarie he helpes you nothing at all Lycanthropus Tertullian verie plainely affirmeth Angels and spirites to haue their peculiar bodies Orthodoxus Whatsoeuer Tertullian saith there concerning this question the Schoolemen they doe excuse and qualifie his speech on this sort They say that Tertullian by the name of bodie vnderstandeth onely the spirituall substance of Angels and nothing else And this he doth saie they in an onely regard of the simplicitie of that people with whom he delt who helde that nothing coulde possibly exist in nature without a bodie Tertullian therefore in that onely regard did purposely call the substances of spirites and diuels by the name of a bodie Lycanthropus Yea but Tertullian auoucheth further that God himselfe is also a bodie and therefore much more that spirits and diuels they haue their bodies His wordes be these Who will deny God himselfe to be a bodie although God indeed be a spirit Orthodoxus This is so farre from confuting as it rather confirmes that qualification which the Schoolemen doe make Namely that by the worde bodie Tertullian vnderstandeth nothing but the spirituall and simple substance of spirits and diuels Besides that it is one thing to be a bodie and another to haue a bodie Tertullian saith onely that God is a bodie he saith not there that God hath a bodie Lycanthropus Notwithstanding all this he saith elsewhere that spirits and diuels are corporall his reason is because the soules of men are also corporall Orthodoxus Herein his pouerty bewraieth it selfe being constrained as you see to beg his cause wherin also he would proue the same by the same namely corporall spirits by corporal soules Howbeit we haue proued before do here affirm it a fresh that the soules of men they are incorporal and therefore by consequence spirits and diuels they are not corporal but spiritual substances Besides all this Augustine verie flatly affirmeth that the incorporall doe differ fully from corporall substances and denieth withall that whatsoeuer is created the same is a bodie yea he sharpely reprehendeth and derideth Tertullian for auouching the soules of men to be corporall And in the end he thinks it too too absurd to hold that a reasonable soule should be a bodie in any respect because the same is onely and altogether incorporall And thus you may plainely perceiue by Augustine how vnfitly Tertullian doth fit your turne Exorcistes But Augustine himselfe elsewhere verie flatly affirmeth that all reasonable creatures are corporall substances yea and that euen the intellectuall creatures namely Angels spirits and diuels are euerie of them also corporall powers howsoeuer they subsist not of flesh and bloud Orthodoxus How Augustine agreeth with Augustine your selfe may plainely perceiue and therein also may wisely consider what credit consists in such varietie But that your Augustine may also receiue his answere let vs heare his argument whereby he would prooue spirits and diuels to be corporall substances Lycanthropus He reasoneth thus We doe therefore affirme the intellectuall powers to be corporall substances onely because they are circumscribed with place euen as humane soules are also inclosed with bodies Orthodoxus This is his argument Whatsoeuer is circumscribed with place that same is corporall but spirits and diuels they are circumscribed with place therefore spirits and diuels they are corporall I answere the proposition is faultie and halteth downe right For the localitie of spirits and diuels doth not simply depend vpon a bodie which after it owne manner I meane circumscriptiuely and sensibly is no doubt in a place but it ariseth properly from the finitouesse and dimensiuenesse of the angelicall nature it selfe Which said angelicall nature being created of God is therefore but finite and circumscribed also with those her owne termes which are competent and proper vnto her And therefore the intellectuall powers they are in a place because they be finite substances although yet they are in a place but definitiuely or determinately So then spirites and diuels you see they are vndoubtedly in a place because they be locall but they are therefore said to be local not because they be corporall as Augustine imagineth but for that being finite they haue their muchnesse or quantity after a sort I meane no predicamental but an intelligible quantity And therefore Augustine he speaketh soundly you see against Tertullian but proueth your purpose nothing at al. Exorcistes But the author of the Ecclesiasticall opinions writeth plainely that we must beleeue nothing to be incorporall or inuisible but onely God Who alone is truely said to be incorporall because he is euery where present replenishing al things and therefore also inuisible to euery creature because he is incorporall His first argument is framed thus Whatsoeuer is incorporall that same is euery where because vbiquity is the cause of incorporality But spirits and diuels they are not euery where therefore spirits and diuels they are not incorporal Orthodoxus The proposition with his prosyllogisme halteth downe right the same being a deceaueable Elench making that the cause which is not properly the
therefore they are euerie of them called Angels as it were by a Christian name Culmannus he saith that Angels are not corporall but spiritual substances because they be spirits For a spirit is not a substance consicting of elements or hauing flesh and bones in which onely respect the Scriptures do call them ministring spirits Briefly Bernard he saith the verie wals are vnable to withstand the Angelicall spirits but that all bodies how solide or palpable soeuer they are vnto them verie penetrable Loe heere we haue summoned a grand-Iurie of ancient Fathers who haue all with one generall consent giuen vp their verdit concerning the non being of corporall spirites and diuels Go to therefore Lycanthropus what say you them Lycanthropus I saie they are all good men and true Orthodoxus Waell then I hope you will yeeld this question namely that spirites and diuels they haue not materiall bodies peculiar to their essentiall being but are altogither simple and incorporall substances and that therefore their essentiall being in men if the same should be granted can neuer be perceiued by corporall sense and so by consequence no corporall possession at all Lycanthropus I yeeld no such matter vnto you Orthodoxus Why man it was the determination of that grand-Iurie of Fathers whom you acknowledge for good men and true Whereupon their verdit was foorthwith authentically recorded and may not now by any orderly course be reuersed Lycanthropus It may be they were to inconsiderate and rash in giuing their verdite and therefore let vs heare your Laterane Councell concerning this matter in question Orthodoxus What man must the credit of a grand-Iurie of Catholike Fathers be made to depend vpon the approbation of a generall Councell Well then the Laterane Councell doth flatly confirme that Angels or spirits they are incorporall created of God and were not eternall before al beginnings but created onely in time By all the premisses then you may plainly perceiue by swaie of argument by plaine euidence of Scripture by authoritie of Fathers yea and by the whole consent of a generall Councell that spirits and diuels are incorporall substances and that therefore if diuels doe essentially enter into the bodies of men as your selfe do fondly imagine they enter not so by any bodies of their owne because they haue no bodies at all Lycanthropus Whether diuels haue bodies or no bodies it makes no great matter verie certaine I am they haue a reall possession in men and I prooue it thus Spirites and diuels they can essentially assume to themselues true naturall bodies therefore they can essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie Orthodoxus Are you fledde on the sodaine from the diuell his reall possessing of bodies to his essentiall assuming of bodies Can you find no fast footing to setle your selfe vpon that you thus plodde hether and thither from point to point as a man fearefully distracted or suddenly fallen in a maze Lycanthropus Yes sir I haue fast footing I warrant you for whatsoeuer I hold although yet now I rather desire to heare what you are able to say concerning the diuell his essentiall assuming of true naturall bodies Orthodoxus Well then I perceiue your store is not great being thus constrained to spend on the stocke Howbeit because this matter wil craue a longer discourse then the present time will affoord let vs therefore goe take our naturall rest and meet here againe betimes in the morning to discourse this point to the full Physiologus Your motion is good for vs all Philologus Very true as you say And therefore we three wil repaire to our Innes to take our rest and meete you God willing to morrow by six of the clocke Orthodoxus Wel then let vs forthwith arise and depart The end of the third Dialogue The fourth Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels can assume to themselues true naturall bodies What bodies they are said to assume and how those Scriptures are to be vnderstood which be for this purpose produced The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOMACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Philologus LYcanthropus I haue this night in my sleepe beene so strangely troubled about thy last argument as if thou take heed to thy selfe I verily beleeue thou wilt giue them the foile Lycanthropus I am so perswaded my selfe howbeit if I be conquered therein I haue another in store that will trouble them more then that by a thousand fold Pneumatomachus Make much of your arguments against the intended skirmish and all little enough for you are to encounter with sharpe sighted aduersaries Lycanthropus Be as sharpe as they will they shall be sure to receiue as hot as they bring But behold where they come Orthodoxus What sirs God giue you good morrow You haue preuented our purpose which was to haue perused an author or twaine before your comming Howbeit sith you are all so readie Goe to Lycanthropus propound your argument to vs. Lycanthropus I propound it thus Spirits and Diuels they can essentially assume to themselues true naturall bodies therefore they can essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie Physiologus We haue hetherto denied and your selfe was vnable to prooue any reall or substantiall possession at all and would you now thus cunningly insinuate some essentiall entrance of diuels vnder the pretence of assumed bodies Which assuming of bodies if it should be denied would perhaps be as hard to prooue as any the points before Philologus What sir would you beare vs in hand it were hard to prooue that the diuell can assume to himselfe a bodie That was neuer yet doubted of any and dare your selfe vndertake to denie the same Physiologus I vndertake no absolute deniall thereof but onely do here make it a Question Howbeit sith your selues are so resolute concerning this point doe tell me what bodie the diuell doth assume to himselfe Whether a true naturall or phantasticall bodie Pneumatomachus Surely a true natural bodie or none at all Physiologus If a true naturall bodie then tell me further whether it be a bodie created before or to be newly created Lycanthropus It is a bodie created before Physiologus If you hold it a bodie created before then tell me yet further whether you take it to be a liuing or dead mans bodie Exorcistes I take it to be some liuing mans bodie if any at all else how should it possibly serue the diuels purpose Physiologus I woonder you should so grossely imagine an impossible matter For where hath the diuell receiued power from the Lord to dispossesse liuing soules of their organicall bodies And what must become of that liuing mans soule all the while the diuell assumeth his bodie it selfe to serue his mischieuous purpose Moreouer it is verie absurde to suppose that the diuell can possibly assume to himselfe any liuing mans bodie Because the Lord hath so vnchangeably established such an inseperable vnion betweene the soule and bodie of a liuing man as vnlesse the bodie and soule be substantially vnited
fumes blacke and grosse vapouring vp to the braine like the soote of a chimney they imagine themselues to be vexed eftsoones of some hurtfull spirits and doe strongly perswade themselues that the diuell assaileth their mindes and driueth them foorthwith into many absurd inconuenient foolish and fantastical imaginations And which more is there be many most fearefull diseases which happen to maidens and widowes of the passions of the wombe or from the late fluxion of their naturall euacuations or when they deferre their mariage to long and then be sodenly bestowed in mariage all these doe no lesse hurt and disquiet the poore patients minde then if they were actually possessed of Satan And therefore me thinke it is to to ridiculous that men of sound iudgement will so soone be ouerswaied with any phantasticall conceipt as that from the onely bare notions of a deceaueable sensitiue knowledge they should by these onely supposed strange actions imagine any actuall possession of Satan seeing the like admirable accidents both may and doe daily proceede from meere naturall diseases without anie operation or power of the diuell Moreouer some of those your supposed signes now extant in print to prooue the pretended actuall possession of Satan they are in themselues so absurd so supernaturall and impossible as they are of all wise men derided and deemed no better then iuggling deuises to deceiue the simpler sort Now then if the greatest part of those your supposed signes be adiudged vntrue and concluded vnsound whie may not the rest be deemed in like manner so deceitfull and false as they deserue and are woorthie no credite at all Brieflie if all those your suggested signes put lately in print by the parties themselues to prooue the pretended possession of diuels must needes be canonized currant and held as infallible oracles from Apollo Pythius at Delphos why then should we the rather beleeue our Sauiour Christ for any his miracles or supernaturall operations sith the yoong man at Magnitton did likewise for his part accomplish so manie extraordinarie and admirable actions if that which is publisht in print may possiblie be prooued a truth Exorcistes Nay sir the yoong man he wrought not those admirable actions by any supernaturall power of his owne but the diuell rather within him and by him effected the same Are you fled to the essentiall and inherent possession of Satan afresh I perceiue you are like to the hunted Hare which seuddeth hither and thether and standeth in feare at euerie squat Howbeit as the vntruth of those your supposed signes of actuall possession is ferretted foorth in an especiall regard of the actions themselues so surely the further vntruth of those your supposed signes shall now further appeere in an especiall respect of satan himselfe whom you make the supposed actour of those your supposed actions which is I assure you the other maine cause why most wise men account all those the aforesaid suggested signes of actuall possession but fine-witted forgeries and meere cousoning conceites of cogging companions Namely for that the verie diuell also himselfe whom you make the supposed actour of those your supposed actions is vtterly vnable to accomplish any such actions as are impossible in nature and incredible in all sound Diuinitie For first concerning an impossibility in nature it selfe the diuel as hath beene declared and you know it full wel he is but a finite creature him selfe and therefore his power whatsoeuer is so limitted and bounded vnto him as the same may not possibly exceede the appointed territories of his determined nature Now then if his power whatsoeuer be paled about and hemmed within the naturall compasse of his essentiall and naturall being how could he either of him selfe or by the yoong man at Mahgnitton in any possibility effect so many absurd supernaturall and impossible actions as in those bookes are blazed abroad And next for the impossibilitie also thereof in all sound Diuinitie verie certeine I am the diuell he is no creatour of substances no transformer of natures nor no worker of myracles First that he is no creatour of substances it is apparant in this namely for that Iehouah alone is the Creatour of all things He onely it is who calleth those things which are not as though they were He bringeth light out of darknes he is the author and father of all things and therefore the glorie of creation belongeth onely to him Moreouer this in all reason is verie apparant namely that the nature of beginnings affecteth singularitie insomuch as possibly he could not be singular if he should communicate the power of Creation to any besides himselfe Now then if spirits and diuels be accompted the creatours of substances then must they in like manner beheld the quickners and sustainers also thereof and so by consequence be Gods and Iehouah causing things to exist Which how repugnāt it is to all sound Diuinitie may plainely appeare in sundrie scriptures Yea this is flat opposite to the approoued testimonie of al the fathers For Augustine he flatly denieth spirits and diuels to be Creators of the smalest creature on earth yea euen of a flea or a louse Damascene also he accordeth thereto Yea and Augustine he backeth this point by a second supply affirming that by whomsoeuer the glorious Angels were made by him also the silie wormes were created This then may fully suffice to conclude the diuell no creator of substances Now next that he is no transformer of natures it is verie apparant in that he cannot possibly transforme his owne proper nature no not so much as in an outward appearance as hath plainely beene prooued before And as for working of miracles he is as impotent therein as in any of the rest because he hath no supernaturall power to accomplish such matters He may worke strange woonders as Simon Magus hath done but he can effect no supernaturall and miraculous actions though God giue him leaue to shew his whole power So then the diuell you see he hath a double bridle put in his mouth namely the bounds of nature and the will of God By the one he is vnable and by the other he may not doe more then the appointment of God The premisses therefore considered who seeth it not vtterly incredible in all sound Diuinitie that many of those your supposed actions could bee possibly effected of satan in such sort at least as in those your published pamphlets they are falsely reported Exorcistes The diuell he is able to accomplish great matters Physiologus So much I confesse And therefore for arguments sake be it by the way supposed which may neuer be prooued that the diuel either of himselfe or by the yoong man at least was throughly able and did truely effect such supernaturall matters as are published in print there is then no doubt but that he can doe them againe and as oft
you had wherewith all to doe it but this lingring delay in dooing the work doth notably declare you a non proficient or make your penury that way to apparant at least For it is full two yeeres since that your thrasâ—nicall vaunt was vented foorth whereas hetherto you haue not set any one of those your brauing huge barrels abroach to giue vs so much as a tast of your further stoare And therefore it cannot possibly be but that either you are drawen dry of your proofes before you begin the banket or that they doe at the least haerere in calamo cleaue so close to your pen as all the power you haue is vtterly vnable to procure their publike passage Well sir whatsoeuer be the want we will in speciall fauour attend with patience your more conuenient leysure for the expected performance of that your bumbasted and brauing abilitie concerning the irrefragable confirmation of this your imagined ordinance In the meane time we thinke it good to giue you an inckling of some one or two of the later writers whose iudgements are opposite to that which you tell vs. First Caluin vpon those selfesame scriptures he telleth vs thus Whereas Christ imputeth their not preuailing against that diuell to some want of faith in his owne disciples he teacheth vs plainely to ascribe the whole efficacie of euerie such miraculous action to the power of faith and not to our prayer and fasting Shewing vs therein how ridiculously the Papists haue constituted their actuall fasting alone as an effectuall counterpoyson for the powerfull expelling of Spirits and Diuels Thus far Caluin In like manner Bullinger vpon the selfesame place he writeth thus These words they are anagogecally or ascendingly transferred from that inferiour to a superior consideration or from that one perticular to an vniuersalitie thus The Lord you see he hath deliuered this one Demoniak or he hath expelled this one diuell doubt you not therefore of his further power for the timely subduing of the whole kingdome of Satan He saith not thus the Lord by his immediate power hath driuen out this one diuel from the child and therefore all spirits and diuels shall from hencefoorth be immediately expelled by prayer and fasting thereby prescribing a perpetual Canon to Exorcists no he entended not any such matter at all For this kinde saith Christ it goeth not foorth but by prayer and fasting Therein verie couertly deducing his speech from that one particular president to all manner of arts impurities and tentations of Satan whatsoeuer and not to a perpetuall establishment of any such falsly supposed ordinance for the powerfull expelling of spirits by prayer and fasting as your selfe doth falsely and fondly imagine Exorcistes Well yet for all this our Sauiour Christ doth vndoubtedly insinuate some secret force to fasting and praier for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels euen in those selfesame words expressed before otherwise he would neuer haue so precisely put them downe in that place And therefore the Church from age to age in their seuerall Exorcismes and we also at Mahgnitton haue delt according to the sacred Scriptures in practising praier and fasting for the expelling of diuels because besides that worke of faith which Caluin and Bullinger noteth these also in that place are iointly required by Christ. Orthodoxus Is this a good argument Christ by occasion doth mention fasting and praier in that place therefore he establisheth exorcizings by praier and fasting as a perpetuall ordinance for the Church to obserue This Iesuiticall iest was fitly and fullie answered by an excellent Doctor thus The popish church and you also your selues haue to grosly abused the ignorant people in making them beleeue you can cast foorth diuels whereas you haue no such power at all Neither can you by all your praiers and fastings coniure out one vncleane spirit from a man vnlesse you haue first like sorcerers and witches coniured them in Exorcistes Let it be a Iesuiticall iest or whatsoeuer you please I make no doubt but that praier and fasting is an ordinance perpetually establisht by Christ for the powerfull expelling of diuels Orthodoxus Be it euen so as you saie But do tell me withall I pray you whether our Sauiour Christ hath establisht the same as an ordinance generally for all to vndergoe or whether he hath onely imposed the dispatch thereof vpon some certeine speciall persons Exorcistes I hold it an ordinance belonging indifferently to all both men and women Yea and I am fully perswaded that the faithfull praiers of the partie and his friends might well haue preuailed with God in this case though no one preacher at all had beene present as in the dispossession of Thomas Darling was verie apparant Orthodoxus If praier and fasting for the powerfull expelling of diuels be an ordinance belonging to all as you say then the vndergoing thereof is also a dutie appertaining to all and so the partie at Mahgnitton as also his parents they failed greatly in doing their dutie that way Exorcistes I make no question of that Orthodoxus Verie well But what warrant had you to vndertake the timely discharge of other mens duties in a matter especially of such weightie importance and so neerely coÌ„cerning themselues you are not of this minde I hope namely that it is sufficient for men to discharge their duties either by themselues or by others Neither yet that your selfe is a second Atlas appointed by God to vndergoe the whole waight of euerie mans dutie or that you are able to accomplish at full any such supposed workes of supererogation as may fullie suffice for the timely dispatch of your owne and other mens duties Exorcistes No surely I am free from either of both the opinions Orthodoxus How then comes it to passe that your selfe durst so boldly aduenture vpon the discharge of that dutie which as you affirme did properly appertaine to the partie himselfe and his parents togither or why did you not rather aduise and exhort them to the timely dispatch of the selfesame dutie which you say appertained in dutie vnto them Is not this the practise of a Polypragmaticall mate yea and to become a busie bodie in other mens matters Exorcistes Nay sir your collections they are ouer strict and your censures to sharpe concerning my former speeches For albeit I did and doe flatly affirme that praier and fasting for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels is in deede a generall duty belonging to all the church yet I doubt not but that the same notwithstanding doth more specially apperteine to preachers and pastours For euen as all men are generally bound to pray vnto God for their forgiuenesse of sinnes and yet that generall duety it doth not exclude the ministers or preachers from praying publiquely for the remission of sinnes in all so surely albeit that praier and fasting for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels be a generall duety enioined generally to all the whole
withstand the creator and Lord of nature Come on therefore Exorcistes let vs goe strictly to worke Either you wrought no woonder at all or you wrought a wonder at least in the yoongman at Mahgnitton If no woonder at all then did you grossely delude the world by making them to stand gazing and woondring so long at a matter of nothing On the other side if you wrought a woonder at least then was the same either a false or true woonder If onely a false woonder then you effected the same either as a false Christ to draw sillie soules into a falsely conceited holines concerning your person or as a minister of Antichrist to establish vnderhand some pretended deuise of your owne besides the authoritie of Christ. Howbeit if that which you wrought at Mahgnitton was in deed and in truth a true woonder such I meane as the Scriptures doe vnderstand by signes and woonders then surely whether the same was effected by meanes or without meanes it was an vndoubted true miracle And therefore you are now perforce constrained to confesse that either you did nothing at all but iuggle with men in that your pretended action or must flatly acknowledge that you wrought a true miracle Because the expelling of spirits and diuels whether with meanes or without meanes is no lesse admirable now then it was in the primitiue Church Exorcistes Nay sir the miraculous curing of feuers palsies leprosies and other diseases by Christ his Apostles in those daies gaue credit to the Gospell but if God by prayer and fasting should heale the falling sicknes or phrensie or should graunt raine drought victorie or such like requests were this a miracle Physiologus If I should but imagine the contrarie men might verie well thinke I were not well in my wittes for what hath prayer in it selfe for the orderly effecting of any such action without the extraordinary working power of the Lord which was euer reputed miraculous Howbeit a miracle you may neuer auouch it to be both because you disclaimed the same before and for that the working of miracles is ceased long since Exorcistes Howsoeuer you vrge the ceasing of miracles there is no determination thereof in the holy scripture Physiologus Why man the two maine causes of working miracles namely the testification of Christ his Deitie and the confirmation of the Gospell are long since determined by the sacred scriptures and therefore the working of miracles are thereby also determined The first it was vndoubtedly determined by Christ himselfe where he saith that the euill and adulterous generation require a signe Howbeit no signe shall be giuen them but the signe of Ionah the Prophet For as Ionah was three daies and three nights in the Whales belly so shall the sonne of man be three daies and three nights in the hart of the earth Christ there declareth vnto vs that his death and resurrection should be the last signe wherewith he would testifie to the world the truth of his Deitie The other I meane the confirmation of the Gospell it also was long since determined by the spirit of God in the sacred scriptures as may verie plainely appeare by conferring the sixeteene of Marke with the second to the Hebrewes For first in the sixeteene of Marke he speaketh of a power from the Lord for confirming the word with miracles following Putting downe in that place the confirmation of the Gospell in the present time saying thus The Lord Bebaiountos that is confirming the word as if the said confirmation had euen then beene in working Howbeit in the second to the hebrewes he speakes thereof as in the preter time telling vs plaine the Gospel was ebebaioothei that is confirmed vnto vs. Declaring thereby that the confirmation of the Gospel by miracles was then so fully accomplished and so finally determined as now to let slip the certeinty of that truth which they had heard before for want of a further confirmation thereof by miracles they could not possibly escape the iust recompence of such a preposterous negligence By the premisses then you may plainely perceiue that those two maine ends of miraculous actions being long since determined the working of miracles was euen then also determined And therefore although you had wrought a true miracle at Mahgnitton in deede yet had the same beene merely superfluous Exorcistes This I suppose is your argument The Gospel it was fully and finally confirmed before by miracles therefore the further confirmation thereof by miracles now is meerelie superfluous Physiologus It is euen the very same Exorcistes Then the sequel I suppose is vnsound For why may there not be as much neede of such a miraculous confirmation in these daies of atheisme as euer before Sure we are that the scripture the deity and al religion is by some among vs no lesse called in question now then it was in any the former ages as the ecclesiasticall courts can testifie and daily experience approoueth vnto vs. Physiologus This your irreligious insinuation concerning some supposed necessity of miracles now in these daies of the Gospel as it doth very blasphemously derogate from the absolute wisedome of God in not foreseeing as it ought the future necessity of miraculous actions in euery age so doth it dangerously vndermine the certeinety of that sauing faith which was onely confirmed vnto vs by former miracles For that faith could neuer be fully nor finally confirmed before if any future necessity of confirming the same afresh be eftsoones admitted euen as that princes broade seale may at no hand he accounted authentically currant which needeth eftsoones to be iterated or imprinted afresh Besides that this pestiferous insinuation of yours it doth open a wide gap to all manner of iuggling knaueries and crafty legerdemaines For if vpon euery such insinuation the working of miracles be once freely permitted then euery cogging companion vnder an holy pretence of miracles may foist into the church at his pleasure whatsoeuer best pleaseth his phantasie and so the certeine truth of our hoped saluation should neuer be certeine vnto vs. And therefore tel me plainely I pray you whether you hold the continuance of miracles in these daies of the Gospel Exorcistes Whether I hold or not hold the continuance thereof it makes no great matter because that article in this action is not to be controuersed at all Physiologus If not in this then in no one action whatsoeuer Howbeit because you are very loath I perceiue to acknowledge that truth which you must needes be enforced at length either openly to confesse or else vtterly to disclaime your admirable action wrought at Mahgnitton let me here what one apparant reason or end you are able to propound for the continuance of miracles in these daies of the Gospel Exorcistes Alas sir an vrgent necessity in these daies of atheisme requireth the same Physiologus Oh then I perceiue your iudgment concerning
possession we tolde you was ment an essentiall or personall entring in men the which we vtterlie reiected as a palpable vntruth absurd in Philosophie and vnsound in Diuinitie as by vnanswerable arguments authenticall authorities and plaine euidence of Scripture was apparantly prooued vnto you Telling you further that if such a reall possession be granted the same must be either a mentall or corporall possession The real-ment all possession we flatly denied Because else the possessed mans minde it must needs be a locall-receptacle essentially and substantially comprehending the diuell for the present which by the verie swaie of arguments the authoritie of writers and plaine euidence of Scriptures we fully confuted And this also in effect was the verie summe or scope of our second conference Exorcistes I remember it well Orthodoxus Then next concerning the reall-corporall possession that also we reiected as fond and friuolous it being a matter neuer purposed by the Lord himselfe in the first creation of bodies For else the minde it selfe must be vniustly charged to answere all those her animall and organicall operations which without any her consent and approbation are violently enforced vpon the possessed mans bodie or if the possessed himselfe being freed from those operations the diuell alone should be called to account for the guilt of those actions then something concerning the possessed himselfe should be acted by him to no purpose Besides that such a real corporall possession the diuell being onely a spirituall substance cannot possiblie be perceiued of the possessed himselfe but onely effectiuely and therefore there can be no sensible perceiuance of any such essentiall possession vnlesse we retaine the Platonists opinion concerning corporall diuels A thing directly opposite to reason to the testimonie of writers and the plaine euidence of sacred Scriptures And this also as I take it was in effect the summe of our third conference Exorcistes I may with no good conscience denie it Orthodoxus Then next because your selfe so earnestly insisted vpon the reall corporall possession it was further declared vnto you that if the same should be granted the diuels then they must necessarily haue such a kinde of possession either by assuming to themselues some true naturall bodie or by transforming themselues into some true naturall bodie at least Their assuming of true naturall bodies wee flatly reiected as an opinion too too vnreasonable absurd and most senslesse whether we vnderstand the same of bodies created before or of bodies then foorthwith to be created And that therefore the diuell his tempting of Euah by the Serpent the Angell his deliuerie of a sensible speech by Baalam his Asse the diuell his supposed assuming of Samuels bodie with such other examples and Scriptures which verie manie doe most ignorantly vrge for this matter they are too too grosly and fondly abused as we prooued vnto you by arguments by writers and by the sacred scriptures And this also if I be not fowly deceiued was in effect the summe of our fourth conference Exorcistes I dare not denie any part thereof Orthodoxus Then next for the diuell his transforming of himselfe into any true naturall bodie we declared vnto you the impossibilitie and most palpable absurditie thereof notwithstanding the Sorcerers rods transformed as you thought into true naturall serpents the supposed transfiguring of Nebuchad-nezzer into an oxe with such other examples Shewing you withall by the conference of places that that place of Scripture which speaketh of Satan his transforming of himselfe into an Angell of light was misunderstood of the most Neither may the same or any like places of scripture be litterally vnderstood of any essential transformations because that work was neuer in the power of a diuel No he cannot possibly transforme him selfe into any true forme whatsoeuer if Christ his argument concerning the non visibility and palpability of spirits and diuels be without contradiction which it could not be if the diuel was able but onely in outward appearance to transforme him selfe into any true forme whatsoeuer as wee proued by reason by fathers and by the canonicall scriptures And this also was in effect the summe of our fift conference Exorcistes I wil at no hand contradict your report Orthodoxus Hauing thus dispatched the supposed real possession of spirits and diuels we entred then into a like serious consideration of their actuall possession shewing you first what it was and then next the seuerall parts thereof Namely either a mentall afflicting and greeuing or a corporall tormenting and vexing We shewed you further that this actuall possession was onely in vse in the daies of Christ and of his disciples Howbeit the maine ends thereof namely the declaration of Christ his deity and the confirmation of his glorious Gospel being in those daies very effectually accomplished the possession also it was by our Sauiour himselfe verie fully and finallie determined Yea and the determination of this actuall possession we confidently auouched notwithstanding any one matter pretended by you for the perpetuitie thereof as was directly prooued by force of argument by the plaine testimonie of ancient writers and the ineuitable euidence of the sacred Scriptures And this in effect was the summe of our sixth conference Exorcistes It was vndoubtedly so as you say Orthodoxus And then next because you insisted still vpon the perpetuitie of actuall possession by an argument drawne from common experience in all that beheld your supposed action wrought at Mahgnitton wee prooued directly vnto you that this their supposed experiēce it could be accoūted no currant experience in deed Both because manie like admirable matters may be demonstrated from meere naturall causes effects and diseases and for that also a meere naturall experience when the same is brought to the best it may be no competent Iudge in such supernaturall matters A thing opposite to Diuinitie to Philosophie to Physicke to Nature to Lawe and to Conscience as may verie plainely appeere whether we respect the action it selfe or the manner of doing the same Then after all this we came to entreate of Satan his power of obsession which consisteth especially in an outward assaulting and circumuenting or in an inward suggesting and tempting And this also in effect was the summe of our seuenth conference Exorcistes The whole truth thereof is without contradiction Orthodoxus Hauing thus handled the power of spirits and diuels whatsoeuer we came next to entreat of that extraordinarie working power whereby their saide power was subdued Shewing you directly that the same was either immediate in Christ the stronger or mediate in some certeine speciall persons extraordinarily mooued to that selfesame busines Againe the mediate power we told you it was either Apostolicall I meane in the Apostles themselues an admirable extraordinarie good meanes to confirme their extraordinary preachings or else Ecclesiasticall that is in the seuentie Disciples and some others succeeding And that therefore this Ecclesiasticall power it was more especially to be considered againe in
ground you cannot possibly collect from thence any certaine conclusions concerning especially your cause in Question For this I assure you of that in no one of those places which your selfe haue recited neither in any other text else throughout the whole Bible is there any one word in the Originall that importeth an essentiall possession applied to Diuels I meane that by any one Lexicon may possibly bestretched to signifie any such essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men howsoeuer it hath pleased the English translator to thrust in the same Lycanthropus The English translatour he hath thrust in no more I hope then the originall text will beare Orthodoxus Yes howsoeuer your selfe doe absurdly collect from the English translation an essentiall possession of diuels I assure you of this there is no one word throughout the original intēding such purpose And verie certaine I am that if the holy Ghost had euer but purposed to put downe such an essentiall possession of Diuels as you would beare vs in hand he wanted not his proper words or termes to expresse the same either in the Hebrew or Greeke in which two languages the canonicall scriptures themselues were primarily indighted by the spirit of God For first concerning possession the Hebrewes they vse for the most part two speciall words to expresse the same Lycanthropus What is the first word they vse for possession Orthodoxus The first word is achuzzah which ariseth from the radicall verbe achaz that is to hold to apprehend to detaine or retaine the thing apprehended to obtaine verie firmely or strongly Hereof comes the nowne achuz which properly signifieth that speciall part of the inheritance which is taken apprehended or held by a speciall right As appeareth in Nombers saying But of the halfe of the Israelites which went not to warre thou shalt take one achuz that is one apprehended possessed or taken out of fiftie In like manner from the aforesaid radicall word achaz is deriued the nowne achuzzah which properly importeth such a detension apprehension or possession as is peculiarly possessed of the possessours themselues as verie plainely appeareth in Nombers by the Rubenits petition put vp vnto Moses saying thus If we haue found grace in thine eies let this land be giuen to thy seruants laachuzzah that is for a peculiar possession and bring vs not ouer Iorden The verie selfe same vse of this word appeareth also in Ioshuah saying thus Now returne ye and goe to your tents achuzzathchem that is to the land of your proper possession or to that land which you peculiarly apprehend possesse and hold Againe in the second Psalme the holy Ghost puts downe that selfe same word to the selfe same purpose saying thus Desire of me and I will giue thee the heathen for thine inheritance and the vtmost part of the earth vaachuzzatheak that is for thy possession or thy peculiar apprehension and right In these and infinit other places of scripture the holy Ghost you see entending purposely to speake of any matter of possession he vseth a verie fit and significant word for that selfe same purpose And therefore if he had euer purposed to put downe any such essentiall possession of Diuels as you dreame of he wanted not words for the same Although notwithstanding this I must tell you withall that if he had borrowed this word from the Hebrewes for such a supposed purpose Yet could not the same haue imported any such an essentiall inherencie in the bodies of men as you beare vs in hand but had signified onely an apprehending an holding a firme detayning or possessing of a thing and no more Lycanthropus Well yet in the new testament it may be the Greeke text hath for that Hebrew word achaz some word in the Scriptures importing such an essentiall possession Orthodoxus It may be it hath not and how then that it hath not it is verie apparant For from this Hebrew word achaz the Grecians by an inuersion or turning of letters doe purposely deriue the Greeke verbe Scheo which signifieth to apprehend or hold And thereof comes metascheo which signifieth to apprehend or lay fast hold vpon Also kateschon which signifieth to detaine Also ischanao which signifieth to retaine or to hold Againe they vse eftsoones the word ctema which properly signifieth a possession albeit that men captiuated and taken in warres are also called ctemata that is such persons as are made bondslaues or held in a slauish thraldome or bondage This word ctema is ordinarily obserued in the new testament to set foorth possessions by as appeareth in sundrie places Neither of these words is vsed of the holy Ghost to expresse that your pretended possession of Diuels which if they had beene indeed yet vnlesse to apprehend to hold to containe to detaine to retaine or keepe fast be but one and the same with these your supposed essentiall possessions you cannot congruently conclude from thence any essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men Lycanthropus Well be it so but what is that other word which the Hebrewes doe vse for possessions Orthodoxus The other word which they commonly obserue for such purpose is iereshah arising from the radical word iarash that is to possesse certaine bounds or territories to hold in his proper right dominion or power to obtaine by special right to inherite c. Properly it signifies the challenging of something peculiar to a mans selfe the same being primarily obtained by his proper coyne by a lawfull succession or proper dominion as a thing that was conquered by warre or some other such meanes Neither is such a possession as the word iareshah importeth to be only vnderstood of grounds or of territories but the same also is vsually spoken of such seruants or men as are brought into bondage It hath a speciall affinitie with two other Hebrew words namely aresheth which signifieth a contentious importunity or an earnest begging of something and rashah which signifieth to grant or giue power Because to possesse a man is so to employ him withall his faculties possessions and treasures as if he were altogither but an exiled person or a poore man destitute of succour being vtterly eiected from his proper bounds and peculiar territories For the sense of this word iarash you may see in sundrie places especially in Ieremie Hereof comes as I told you before the word iereshah that is a possession and thereby is signified properly any thing whatsoeuer that hath beene subdued by the partie possessing the same as appeareth in Nombers Also from the word iarash is deriued the nowne ierushah which signifieth properly such a possession as some doth peculiarly possesse And this word is so taken but thrise in the Bible Howbeit when this word ierushah is applied to the hart then it betokeneth properly those selfesame cogitations or thoughts which the minde it selfe doth peaceably possesse as appeareth in Iob where he saith My daies are passed
I take it for those sinfull actions Physiologus But seeing sinne it selfe is onely a voluntarie transgression of the law of God how holdes it with equitie that the soule should be answerable for those selfesame organicall actions which she did neuer voluntarily assent vnto accomplish affect or approoue Lycanthropus Because the animall operations of the soule they being appointed by God to direct and to moderate the organicall operations of the bodie did faile in doing that dutie Physiologus How should shee possiblie accomplish that her appointed dutie concerning the direction and moderation of those organicall operations shee being before verie violently and absolutely dispossessed of the bodie it selfe by whom those organicall actions should haue beene wrought according to her proper and onely directions Besides that the peculiar actions of the vnderstanding affection and will are meere animall respecting either the minde it selfe or the minde and bodie togither Touching the minde it selfe her animall operations are onely to vnderstand to affect and to will These animall operations they are such as the minde her-selfe both may and doth effectually accomplish without the bodie and being quite seperate from it And also she hath her animall motions whereby she is locally mooued without the bodie and being quite seperate from it For so the soule of Lazarus his bodie being dead fower daies in the graue did locally mooue and returne yea by such a non organicall or animall motion the verie soules of the saued damned are at this present continually moued The animal operations respecting the minde and bodie togither they are the dutifull applying of the vnderstanding affection and will to an orderly direction and circumspect moderation of al the organical actions To the timely discharge of which duty the minde especially is bound so long as she is naturally inherent or peculiarly predominant ouer the bodie Else she is freely exempt from all charge of the bodie and hath then her animall operations wherein her office doth wholie and onely consist And euen as in the minde so also in the body there be some such meere corporall actions and motions as the bodie it selfe both may and doth also accomplish without any direction or moderation of the minde As for example The dead carkasse of a man being quite seperate from the soule it hath notwithstanding her corporall dimensions figure situation and habite yea and is locally mooued either downewards by a natural motion or else vpwards or ouerthwart by a violent motion Yea and all these corporall operations and motions the bodie hath and may also accomplish by herselfe alone without any her soules direction moderation or guidance they being especially such actions and motions as appertaine not to the minde at all Now then as the soule hath some such animall operations peculiarlie appropriate to it as it may well and doth effectually accomplish without the bodie being freely seperate from it and therefore no reason the bodie it selfe should any waies be answerable for those peculiar actions of the minde whereunto she was no waies assistant so surely the bodie it hath and may haue some such corporall actions and motions peculiarly appropriated or violently enforced vpon it as it may and doth also effect without any the direction moderation or consent of the soule it being quite seperate from it or from any the directions thereof at the least and therefore it is absurd to imagine that the soule should be brought to account for any those peculiar actions or motions of the bodie which it neuer directed the bodie vnto nor neuer gaue consent to the same in any respect Lycanthropus I know not which waies to answere your speech howbeit very certaine I am the diuell hath really in man a corporall possession at least Physiologus How do you know it for certein sith the diuel is onelie a spirit of a spiritual substance simplie and absolutelie without all mixture of corporall matter and therefore he needeth no such real possession in anie mans bodie Lycanthropus He needeth no such real possession in any mans bodie I confesse in regard of his owne essential beeing Howbeit respecting more especiallie the timely execution of his tyrannicall tormenting of bodies there is necessarilie required in the parties possessed an essential possession at least Physiologus Why man as the Lord God in the verie first creation did constitute spirites and diuels essentiallie absolute in their owne proper beings without anie apparant necessitie of such an essential mixture with humane bodies so surelie you are neuer able to proue from the word that the infinite wise God did euer propound to himselfe in the creation of bodies anie one purpose at al concerning such essentiall possession of spirites and diuels Neither are you able to show by the scriptures that the diuel did euer receiue so large a commission from God concerning mens bodies For very certeine it is that the diuel did earnestlie entreate and the Lord for many respects did purposelie permit as much scope to the diuel concerning Iobs bodie as anie mans bodie besides either before him or after him and yet did the diuel neuer begge nor the Lord neuer graunt anie further power at al concerning the bodie of Iob then onelie an actual afflicting but not anie essentiall possessing at al. Besides that the whole man bodie and soule was preordained by the secret purpose of God to be for euer the liuelie image of his absolute maiestie respecting especially the perfection and holines thereof yea and which more is to be also a perpetuall habitacle and glorious temple for his sacred spirit and therefore it is incredible that the foreseeing wisedome of God would euer permit any such essentiall possession to spirites and diuels as should not onelie most beastlie pollute and deface his owne image but which more is euen reallie as it were transforme the habitation of his holie spirit into a filthie cage of vncleane spirites a most stinking stie for satan him selfe and a most horrible dungeon for damned diuels Lycanthropus Why sir this metamorphosis or change was primarilie effected in the persons of Adam and Euah who being both created according to the image of God concerning body and soule did not onelie quite loose the said image of God but which more is did presentlie put vpon them the verie image of the diuel who is called the strong armed man and they are now become that dwelling house of his which he possesseth and keepeth in peace Physiologus The image of God it was not lost in Adam and Euah as touching the essence but concerning onelie the perfection the sanctitie and holines thereof Neither did they essentiallie but onlie actuallie put vpon themselues the image of satan Neither did that strong armed man the diuel at any time essentially but onely effectively possesse or keepe them in peaceable possession as an house for himselfe And therefore either you must necessarily acknowledge the diuel to haue an essentiall possession not onelie in
cause in deed For neither is infinitenesse nor the vbiquity depending thereon the only proper cause that any thing is incorporal but some other thing els As for example an omnipresence or if so I may speake an incorporiety is truely in God howbeit God is incorporal not so much in regard of his vbiquity as because he is a simple spirit Angels in like sort are therefore incorporal in their proper degree because they be spirits but yet created spirits and they are therefore local because they be finite substances Thus then your said author his first argument afordeth smal force you see to your present purpose Lycanthropus But he argueth secondly thus Whatsoeuer is incorporal that also is inuisible spirites and diuels they are not inuisible therefore also not incorporal Orthodoxus First the assumption is meerely false because it maketh spirits and diuels naturally visible which al men do know to be otherwaies by common experience For who euer hath hitherto seene or could possibly perceiue a spirit or diuel as they are in their proper nature Againe in the proposition he failes as before by pretending a cause which is not the cause For the denying of a corporal or bodily beeing is not the proper cause of inuisibility but the absence the vitiousnesse the depriuation or fault of some other thing els which are necessarily required in the action of seeing Besides that by this argument a man might also deny the aiery element to be a body or corporal substance for who can possibly behold or sensibly see the purity of the ayre it selfe Thus then your old fathers you see they in deed and in truth are not interessed at al in that misbegotten ofspring which your selfe so desirously but yet fasly would father vpon them and therefore let vs now here what better hap with the new Lycanthropus With a very good will First Rhodiginus he affirmeth confidently that spirits and diuels haue their proper bodies Orthodoxus How should he so confidently affirme his opinion not hauing the conformitie and concord of truth consorting therewith Besides that Rhodiginus he proues his assertion by the bare and onely authority of Augustine the which auctority and opinion of his as you haue heard it disproued before so surely Rhodiginus himselfe he doth dangerously crosse and annihilate it by opposing many vnauoidable exceptions of scholemen against the same And therefore Rhodiginus his authority is nothing authenticall or currant concerning your question Lycanthropus But Caietanus explaining these the Apostles words according to the prince of the airie spirits or powers he is not afraide to affirme that it holdeth best with reason and sound Philosophie to beleeue that spirits and diuels are constituted naturally of airie bodies Orthodoxus Doth Caietanus say so indeed Oh the wit that abounds in a Cardinals hat But what is his reason I pray you Lycanthropus He hath a reason that knockes it dead namely this Euen as saith he the vegetatiue substance is found without the sensitiue and the sensitiue without the motiue and an intellectiue without either sensitiue or motiue according to place so is it credible that an intellectiue may be found without a sensitiue with a motiue onely according to place and such saith he are spirits and diuels Orthodoxus Doth Caietanus conclude as you say Now faire fall his good hart for his cunning conclusion surely he himselfe alone hath striken the Popingaie dead This I confesse is an admirable argument Howbeit this I must tell you that such maner of arguments howsoeuer they may seeme at a blush to giue a glimmering shewe of conueniencie they haue in them verie small force to conuince And without doubt if Caietanus his conclusion be canonized currant it might in like maner be granted that the sensitiue substance is to be found without the vegetatiue and the intellectiue with the sensitiue without the motiue according to place and so no one thing shall be wanting which may tende to the generalitie and absolutenesse of such kinde of couplings togither Which when all is done your opinion for any thing Caietanus concludes is like to lie in the dust Exorcistes Yea but Georgius he affirmeth plainely that spirits and diuels are not onely corporall and airie substances but that they haue in them also the power of generation and can shedde forth seed for that purpose Howbeit when they come to a woman saith he then they do contract gather togither or thicken their airie bodies fashioning them fitte for the purpose which they presently affect yea and that also their ofsprings are properly Gyants Orthodoxus Notwithstanding Georgius his impudent and shamelesse affirmation of a matter so shamefull I will at no hand be drawne any longer to heare it much lesse doe I giue credite vnto it and which more is I will neither defile my toong nor infect your chaste eares with the filthie contagion thereof it being so impossible in nature and so incredible in all sound Diuinitie Howbeit if any of the learned be further desirous to heare this his grosse impudencie and foolerie more fully confuted I referre them ouer to the learned Treatises of such as haue sifted that offensiue argument vnto the bran More especially to the seuerall workes of Wierus Engubinus Casmannus Aristotle Frisiuss Scaliger Cassianus and others who do euery of them so soundly beate downe this your Georgius his grosse assertion as I my selfe shall not neede to deale in it at all Lycanthropus But yet Zanchius a man of excellent learning he not onely enclineth that way but holdeth withall this my opinion of corporall spirits Orthodoxus Zanchius imbraceth the same I confesse as the more probable opinion in his conceite but what manner of bodies spirits and diuels should haue he doth not determine That they haue airy bodies he seeth not he saith how the same should be proued But he verely supposeth spirits and diuels to haue other manner of bodies then either airie or celestiall bodies and that the substance of their bodies is more like to the substance of that heauen of the blessed which is properly called the Empyrial or fiery heauen Thus this excellent learned man he doth giue among others his coniecturall opinion concerning the bodies of spirits and diuels A coniectural opinion I say very purposely consonant to that other opinion which himselfe and some others doe hold about the creation of Angels in that the forenamed heauen of the blessed Howbeit neither Zanchius nor any of the rest do certeinly determine this matter in question Lycanthropus Well yet Zanchius and the other they purposely encline to this my opinion concerning corporall spirits and diuels Orthodoxus Not so For whereas your selfe do certainly hold that spirits and diuels are endued with grosse and airie bodies Zanchius and some others suppose they do rather consist of empyriall or fierie bodies as was shewed before where also I haue purposelie put downe the speciall reason of this
their coniecturall opinion Howbeit for a further declaration heereof I do answer with Gregorie Beda Damascene the Schoolemen and others who doe all iointly affirme that euen as the knowledge of spirits and diuels in comparison of our knowledge is verie excellent and woonderfull large although yet in comparison of God the same is but shallow and shorte so surely those the supposed bodies of spirites and diuels in comparison of our earthly and palpable bodies may fitlie be saide to be spirituall whereas yet in comparison of the omnisufficient and incircumscriptible spirit of spirites they may after a sort be saide to be corporall And this our censure concerning corporall spirites being rightly vnderstood as it ought to be that is being graunted comparatiuely may very well stande with the truth For certeine it is that Angels are not spirites purely simple as God is most simple neither are they infinite and incircumscriptible spirits as God alone is but are marshalled within their proper dimensions and bounds All which being graunted it doth not thereupon necessarily folow that therefore Angels they are not created incorporall finite spirits and such as after their manner are limitted definitiuely within their proper dimensions but this rather folowes thereof namely that therefore spirits and diuels they are not most simple most infinite illocal nor omnipotent powers For the specialls do alwaies retaine the common nature of their generall and therein they fitly accord howsoeuer by reason of some repugnant formes they doe otherwaies dissent among themselues And thus your Fathers you see both old and new they are fully answered concerning their supposed mannaging of this your opinion of corporal spirits or diuels Philologus Are you able Lycanthropus to reply to his answere Lycanthropus I am vtterly vnable But sir sith you so confidently do hold that spirits and diuels are incorporall let vs heare your reasons and authorities concerning this point Orthodoxus With very good will my reasons are these First spirits and diuels haue not flesh and bones saith Christ as you see me to haue Wherein it is very apparant that there is one substance of humane bodies and another of spiritual powers Spirits they haue neither flesh nor bones therefore they cannot be comprehended with the sight of the eie nor handled by the sense of feeling both which are proper to the sensible perceiuing of humane bodies Againe the Lord saith the Apostle hath made his spirits his messengers and his ministers a flame of fier The which place albeit Dauid doth properly vnderstand of the operation of winds yet for as much as the Apostle applieth the same to the Angels it is not to be doubted at all but as the name Spirit so likewise a spirituall essence appertaineth vnto them Againe we read that a legion of diuels namely sixe thousand sixe hundred sixtie and sixe possessed the man in the Gospell whom Christ deliuered But if diuels be corporall substances and doe essentially enter into the bodie of man it is vtterly impossible that there should so many be crouded together and all contained at once within the narrow corners of an humane bodie Exorcistes Some doe hold there was in deed but one onely diuell in the possessed whose name was Legion Orthodoxus As though it were possible that one onely diuell could be really inherent in two seuerall persons at once Besides that it is verie apparant in Marke and in Luke that there was not one but many diuels yea and Mathew also exchanging the name of one into many he saith the diuels besought Christ that they might goe into the heard of swine Exorcistes Sir I onely haue shewed you what some others doe hold but proceed in your purpose Orthodoxus I proceed thus The spirits or soules of men are incorporall therefore spirits and diuels are also incorporall For if the reasonable soule or spirit of a man be not corporall in any respect I meane if it be neither solide nor palpable as are the earthie and terrestriall bodies neither yet subtile or slender as are the airie and celestiall bodies then without doubt spirits and diuels they are likewise incorporall because they also are spirits For the nature and definitions of a spirit and a bodie do altogither and in euery respect differ betweene themselues And thus besides those Philosophicall reasons which Physiologus propounded before you haue hetherto heard from the Scriptures such seuerall arguments as doe verie plainely conclude the non being of corporall spirites or diuels Pneumatomachus Beleeue me Lycanthropus before we began this our conference I doubted greatly of the essentiall being of spirits and diuels Howbeit now I am cleere in that point and by this discourse doe farther perceiue them to be admirable and woonderfull powers Lycanthropus Verie true as you saie But sir let vs heare I beseech you your authorities also concerning this point Orthodoxus With verie good will Wherein I assure you that this our opinion concerning incorporall spirits and diuels is generallie receiued in the church of God approoued by the consent of many Diuines and confirmed fully from the Laterane Councel Lycanthropus For the generall receite thereof in the Church I make little doubt but let vs heare now your seuerall authorities Orthodoxus Content First Dionysius writeth thus Wee account not saith he the celestiall and deified powers or spirits to consist of innumerable feete or to haue a manifold countenance neither yet to be like vnto liuing and corporall creatures albeit the sacred Scriptures in speaking of them doe vse these Poeticall and fained formes Chrysostome he saith the Seraphimes are called spirits that is incorporall and supernaturall powers And a little after he saith they be called fierie or flaming creatures because their substance is most pure Augustine be defineth them thus Angels and diuels are spirituall powers incorporall substances inuisible insensible reasonable intellectuall and immortall the good ones they are shining and impassible the euill ones blacke and passible Theodoret he saith that God created the vniuersall nature of incorporall substances constituting decreeing and ordeining their said nature to be intellectuall and also immortall Andreas of Ierusalem he saith that Angels and spirites are all without their bodies Gregorie also he saith in like sort that spirits and diuels they haue no flesh Isidore he saith that Angels and diuels according to their nature are called spirits Damascene he saith that Angels and spirits are intellectuall substances euermore mooueable and free by the arbiterment of their proper power incorporall the ministers of God obtaining immortalitie by grace not by nature the portraiture bounds of whose substantiall being onely the creatour of spirites he knoweth himselfe Carolus magnus he saith the essentiall substance of Angels and diuels is immortall because they be spirits by nature Vigerius Saonensis he saith that Angels are all of them spirituall substances without any bodies at all consisting of vnderstanding and will and
certainly so as that S. Donston did hold the diuell fast by the nose with a paire of pincers the very first day he appeared vnto him in such an assumed bodie wherein Donston serued the Diuell of trust and according to his due desertes to teach him to be medling with the worke of creation before he had gotte a Comission from God But alas Lycanthropus are you not highly ashamed to hold so maine absurd and horrible impieties or rather such execrable and intollerable blasphemies For be you throughly assured of this that your selfe imagening the diuell a creator of bodies you doe thereby ascribe vnto him a supernaturall power and therein also doe attribute that vnto diuels which onely is due vnto God because creation of substances was neuer yet graunted to man or Angell much lesse vnto diuels Besides that if it were in the power of diuels either to create or assume to them selues essentiall bodies at pleasure it is not then to be doubted but that such and so endlesse is their malice towards men we should shortly haue the whole world replenisht with corporall diuels yea and their number would farre surmount the number of men if all be true that is set downe in Salomons notes of coniuration Wherein are named seauentie nine principall diuels hauing euery of them vnder them and at their commaund some tenne twentie thirtie fortie fiftie sixtie seauentie yea and some of them eightie legions of diuels at the least So then howsoeuer your selfe shall otherwaies dreame of a power in Satan for assuming of bodies sith they can be no such bodies as are newly created either by God or the diuell sith they can be no bodies created before sith they can be no bodies of men either dead or aliue it must necessarily follow that those imagined bodies which the diuels are supposed to assume to them selues they are in deed and in truth no true naturall bodies Lycanthropus It is like then that the diuels they do onely assume to themselues but a phantasticall body Physiologus And it is like then that the diuels they haue onely in men but a phantasticall possession which is the very same issue you were brought vnto before when we discoursed of the mental possession of diuels Philologus How now Lycanthropus are you brought to a non-plus before you well wiste Lycanthropus I wot not I assure you which waies to winde my selfe out from these windings and turnings howbeit for any thing hitherto heard I will neuer beleeue but that the diuell can assume to himselfe a true naturall bodie Orthodoxus What man will you with such setled pertinacie dwell in your opinion not hauing sound reason therefore Lycanthropus Yes sir I haue reasons and authorities both support me therein Orthodoxus Let vs first heare your reasons Lycanthropus With verie good will wherein first from the like I doe reason thus The good Angels of God they haue appeered to men in assumed bodies therefore spirits and diuels they may also appeere vnto men in assumed bodies Orthodoxus Your argument is faultie the same not consisting of things essentially alike in euery respect For neither haue the infernall diuels those heauenly priuiledges which the celestiall Angels enioy neither yet are they equall with them in knowledge and power So as although the good Angels doe sometimes assume to themselues essentiall bodies yet doth it not necessarilie folow that therefore the euill Angels or diuels are able to do the like Againe howsoeuer the good Angels haue at some time assumed essential bodies yet doth it not appeer and your selfe cannot prooue that they created those bodies themselues but by the prouident power and appointment of God they had them from else where for that speciall seruice whereunto they were sent Moreouer there is no sound consequence in this viz. Good Angels they do visible appeere vnto men in assumed bodies therefore euill Angels they doe the like This I say doth not folow because of the good Angels appearing in visible bodies we haue had often and manifest experience but of the euill Angels appearing so no example or instance at all can be giuen Briefly your argument is but a deceaueable Elench from a may be to the being indeed whereof no certeine conclusion can folow For thus you reason Good Angels haue appeared to men in assumed bodies therefore spirites and Diuels they may also appeare vnto men in assumed bodies This your may be concludeth nothing for certeine Whereas you should haue argued thus Good Angels appeare in assumed bodies therefore spirits and diuels do appeare vnto men in assumed bodies but then your consequent woulde haue been ouer-hard to prooue and besides that it is the very question it selfe By the premisses then it is very apparant that this your first reason hath in it no reason at all to support your opinion Lycanthropus But sith it is certeine that the good Angels doe oftentimes appeare in assumed bodies why should not spirites and diuels be able to do the like Orthodoxus As though because the omnipotent God doth furnish and endowe his heauenly messengers with sensible bodies when and so oft as seemeth good to himselfe therefore euery impotent and infernall spirit or diuell is able also to do the like at their pleasures Lycanthropus Why may not the Lord do as much for spirits and diuels Orthodoxus The Lord may do whatsoeuer he please that it will be his good pleasure to do this which you dreame of who can certeinly say His pleasure in the one hath beene made apparant vnto vs by often experience for the other we haue neither worde nor promise nor example to my remembrance Exorcistes Yes there is a plaine proofe heereof in the Psalmes where Dauid saith plainly that the Lord powred foorth the fiercenes of his wrath vpon the Egyptians by sending his euill Angels among them Orthodoxus What vnderstand you by the euil Angel there Exorcistes Those spirits and diuels wherewith they were dailie tormented Orthodoxus Consider diligentlie the story concerning the Egyptian plagues and tel me where you find any one diuel afflicting them nay tel me what one plague was among them which was not inflicted vpon them by the message and ministery of Moses and Aaron And therefore you are deepely deceiued in mistaking these words by sending the Angels or messengers of euils Which place Tremellius vnderstands not of spirites and Diuels sent among them but of Moses and Aaron rather whom the Lord sent to the Egyptians as his only Angels that is the only messengers and executioners of all those his euils which were cast vpon Egipt And this sense is in my opinion according to the purpose coherence and scope of the Psalme it selfe Lycanthropus But it is as Exorcistes saith in the vulgar translation Orthodoxus It is true and therefore let it so stand as he saith for euil Angels I meane for spirits and diuels But now tel me withal how much this place doth make for the assuming of bodies by
spirits and diuels Thus you reason The Lord sent his euil Angels among the Egyptians therefore spirits and diuels they assume to themselues what bodies they please This consequent hath in it no sequel at al and it is quite contrary to the words of the text For Dauid saith not that the Lord sent his euil Angels essentially into them but among them I meane the Egyptians which proueth nothing for Satan his assuming of bodies Exorcistes But yet we haue a notable example concerning this point from the diuel his tempting of Euah in the serpent Orthodoxus Wel go to frame your argument Exorcistes I frame it thus Satan he did put vpon him the body of the serpent and spake very sensibly in that selfesame serpent therefore spirits and diuels they can and are able to do the like with any body els whatsoeuer Philologus Maister Orthodoxus this argument I beleeue will set you hard Orthodoxus Not so hard as you thinke by then the ambiguous termes are opened more plainely And therefore doe tell me here what you meane by satan his putting the serpents body vpon him Exorcistes I meane this namely that he did really and essentially enter into the very essence and substance of the serpent it selfe Orthodoxus Then it must folow by necessary consequence that the diuel himselfe did essentially become the serpent in deed or the serpent essentially the diuel at least during the whole time of that action Lycanthropus Yea what else Orthodoxus Do you aske me what else I aske you for answere whether your hart be so deeply bewitched with blindnesse as you cannot perceiue the absurdity hereof it beeing so apparantly euident to all the world For is it possible thinke you that the diuel should be able vtterly to annihilate the essētiall being either of himselfe or of any other creature vnder the heauens Or is it likely that satan can cause himsele to be a diuel or no diuel and the serpent to be a serpent or no serpent when and so oft as it pleaseth himselfe If this were certeinely so what one creature in al the world could any long time continue in that proper estate wherein it was first created of God For the diuel hath wil and malice enough to do mischiefe if he had but that absolute power to accomplish the same Moreouer from satan his assuming of the serpents body alone you doe plainely conclude an absolute power in diuels ouer all other bodies else whatsoeuer and so from one perticular example you do cunningly gather a generall conclusion thus Satan he did essentially assume the body of the serpent therefore spirits and diuels can essentially assume what bodies they please This argument is vtterly vntrue in euery part For first whereas I plainely deny that the diuel can so essentially assume a body the which thing you should proue your selfe by a pitifull begging of the cause in question do take it as graunted and thereupon would proue the same by the same attributing also to the diuel such an absolute power therein as is vtterly impertinent to any creature and thereby also you doe highly derogate from the diuinity and power of God Secondly your argument also is faulty in that it concludeth more largely then was put downe in the premisses namely from one particular practize of satan it concludes an absolute power as was said ouer al bodies whatsoeuer which is a deceiueable kind of reasoning For albeit we should grant which will neuer be proued that satan had for that once some speciall preuiledge granted from God and did thereby also essentially enter into the very essence of the serpent as your selfe suppose yet doth it not folow that therefore spirits and diuels they can also essentially assume to themselues what bodies they please Howbeit to the end we may the more directly and plainely proceed doe tell me whether it was the diuel alone or the serpent alone or the diuel and serpent together that gaue the onset vpon Euah in that temptation Philologus It could not be the diuell alone for he is not named at all in the action Orthodoxus If he be not named at all in the action how comes he then to be charged for the principall author in that selfesame action Exorcistes In other places of scripture his malice that way is mightily tainted and himselfe accused for a murderer from the beginning although in the historie of Euahs tentation he be not precisely named any author at all Orthodoxus Yea but how can those places of Scripture in anie sounde reason impose the blame of the action vpon satan himselfe if neither absolutely nor properly nor historically nor Allegorically nor metaphorically nor any waies else he be specially named in that very historie of Euahs tentation wherein the action it selfe with the seuerall circumstances is fully and plainely expressed Exorcistes Moses you know doth not set downe the story of the Bible at large but onely compiles the same in a summary abridgement Orthodoxus But that action especially being so waighty a matter was necessary to be knowen in euery point and therefore it is not to be doubted but that the history concerning the same is so exactly set forth with euery circumstance as that any man may be able to iudge of the principall actors therein at the least So then although the diuel in that history be neither absolutely nor historically nor properly expressed by name yet must we acknowledge him to be therein allegorically and metaphorically set forth at the least or otherwaies impose no blame vpon him at al concerning the action Lycanthropus Yes euen by that selfesame story he is allegorically or metaphorically set forth in the serpent Orthodoxus Then was it no natural serpent but the diuel himselfe metaphorically set forth by the name of a serpent who gaue the onset vpon Euah in that tentation For by allegories and metaphors there is euermore some other thing ment then that which is literally expressed Lycanthropus But yet for all that the serpent is said to haue tempted Euah Orthodoxus That is the diuel alone metaphorically set forth as you say by the name of a serpent was he that tempted our grandmother Euah I proue it thus If in that action the diuel himselfe be not historically and properly but allegorically and metaphorically called a serpent because he is most crafty and subtile then vndoubtedly the obiection of a serpent is very inconuenient but the antecedent is true and therefore also the consequent Exorcistes Proue your antecedent Orthodoxus I wil. First besides that which you grant your selfe it is an accustomed thing in the sacred scriptures to vse the names of other creatures in setting forth to our sense the intellectual creatures themselues Hereupon it is that in the Apocalypse the diuel by a perpetual allegory is called a dragon or serpent and therefore in this history of Euahs tentation by the like perpetuall allegory he is also called a serpent Secondly Moses in that action doth purposely
the bodie of a serpent sith he might by himselfe alone verie sufficiently accomplish that worke Pneumatomachus Doe you hold it for truth that the diuell in that action did not vse the ministerie of the serpent at all Orthodoxus What I doe hold therein shall hereafter be heard Onely because your selfe doe so confidently insist vpon satan his essentiall assuming of the serpents bodie at his tempting of Euah I haue here as it were by the way very apparantly proued that for any thing you are able to propound to the contrary the diuell he might easily effect that worke by himselfe alone without any helpe of the serpent as you haue heard by the former auctorities and may yet haue the same further confirmed by Cyril him selfe Who doth flatly affirme that the serpent was no true and naturall serpent in deede but onely the forme and shape of a serpent vnder which the diuell him selfe did talke with the woman and wherein also he did vndergoe the curse of God denounced vpon him And I pray you what absurditie impietie offence or inconuenience were it at all for any to hold that Moses vnder the person of a poysoning serpent did metaphorically set forth the diuell himselfe who poysoned Euah From whence comes it else that the diuell is called a viper or serpent and his children the generation of vipers but from that first description which Moses makes of him in this selfesame action There are none so grosse I suppose as to dreame that the diuel is a materiall serpent nor any so madde as to imagine that the wicked are the the generations of snakes and vipers according to the literall sense Briefly let this action concerning Euahs tentation be conferred exactly with that description and dealing of satan set downe in the Apocalypse and tell me who will not conclude but that it was the diuel himselfe metaphorically set foorth by the serpent that tempted Euah And in consideration hereof he is there purposely called not simply a serpent but that old serpent which name it selfe is afterwards exegetically expounded by the diuel and satan who deceiued the world and was a murtherer from the beginning Philologus If it was no serpent as you say but the verie diuell himselfe that tempted Euah why then is he not called by his proper name in some part of the historie concerning that action Orthodoxus It was vndoubtedly the diuell himselfe that tempted Euah whose name saith Tremellius and others was purposely concealed by Moses in an especiall regard of the simplicitie and rudenes of that present people to whose slēder capacities he sets foorth the matter in forme of a Tragedie producing the Lord the serpent the man and the woman as actors therein to the end our weake vnderstandings might be the more sensibly enformed concerning that matter Howbeit because in the historie of the creation there is no perticular mention of Angels or spirits therefore the proper name of the diuel is heere especially concealed and himselfe is metaphorically described vnder the serpent least they hearing in that action of some spirituall substance vnheard off before might happily haue a window set open to prophane curiositie and so either fall into grosse Idolatrie or runne with the Maniches into the palpable errour concerning two sundry beginnings or creators of things By all the premises then it is verie apparant that notwithstanding the contrary opinions of some I should commit no absurditie at all in auouching that Satan himselfe alone gaue the onset vpon Euah hauing some speciall reasons the testimonies of fathers yea and the opinion also it selfe verie authentically priuileged in our English church by publike authoritie Lycanthropus Notwithstanding your auctorities and reasons whatsoeuer I will neuer be perswaded that the diuell alone did set vpon Euah Exorcistes And surely whether the diuell alone or not I will neuer beleeue it was the serpent alone that did it both because serpents and snakes could neuer properly speake and for that the enimitie which was put betweene them two and their seed may not possibly be vnderstood of the snake and her broode Orthodoxus The common receiued opinion is that it was the diuell and serpent together whereunto also I doe willingly subscribe Partly in an especiall regard of two other places of Scripture which seeme to encline to that sense and partly also for that in the originall the very name of the serpent importeth so much she being called nachash of nachash or nichesh that is to diuine or to charme Signifying thereby that the diuell according to the very purport of the name it selfe did as it were so bewitch and so charme the serpent as that through his craftie suggestion she was very well able to propound such a diuination or soothsaying as did presently circumuent and deceaue our graundmother Euah But goe to let it be graunted that the diuell and the serpent together gaue the onset vpon Euah now tell me in what maner they wrought Lycanthropus In this manner First the diuell he entred essentially into the serpent and then after he vsed the serpents toong to set the temptation an end Orthodoxus But how doe you certainely know that the diuell did essentially enter into the serpent Lycanthropus How doe I know it euen by the apparant effects thereof for how came it to passe that the serpent did speakevnto Euah Orthodoxus Could not the diuell apply the serpents toong to his purpose vnlesse he did first essentially enter into her Lycanthropus No how is it possible he should Orthodoxus Why how doth a minstrill make his pipes to sound what he please doth he essentially creepe first into the bagge it selfe and then tune the pipes to his purpose or doth he only dispose the sound by his breath Philologus What how now Lycanthropus I beleeue you haue heard such a fit of mirth as if you daunce after the same but a while your opinion concerning the essentiall assuming of bodies will be driuen out of doores Lycanthropus Not so For howsoeuer a minstrill might by his breath alone be able to cause the pipes to squeake yet could he neuer distinguish the notes vnlesse with his fingers he kept the seuerall stoppes howbeit spirits and diuels are incorporall creatures hauing neither fingers nor hands nor any member else to frame the words Orthodoxus Well then thus much yet you confesse by the way that a minstrill by his onely breath may cause the instrument to giue foorth some sound howsoeuer vnable to distinguish the tunes Goe to what say you to the trumpeter he vseth no helpe of any one member at all to distinguish the sounds saue only his breath and yet only therewith he causeth so certaine a sound as euery one that heares him can tell what is played or sounded Now then if it be possible for a reasonable man thus to applie a dead instrument at his pleasure to serue his turne without any essentiall creeping into
sir we also our selues would gladly see that same Iesus whom the world so egerly affecteth and followeth Andrew no sooner perceiued their sute but he acquainted Phillip therewith and they both together propounded the whole matter to Iesus Now then Iesus considering in the zeale of those greekes how all nations affected his preaching and miracles and came flocking vnto him he answered Andrew and Philip thus I perceiue by all signes that the very hower it selfe is now come wherein the sonne of man must be glorified in the actuall manifestation of his effectuall power vpon satan by his sufferings and death Which his said death I assure you must now necessarily succeed to the actuall accomplishment of that actuall conquest a very liuely resemblance whereof you may plainely behold in the wheate corne Which vnlesse it doth fall into the ground and die abideth alone but if it doe die it bringeth foorth abundance of fruit And euen so if this body of mine were once wrapped within the bowels of the earth by the dart of death there would vndoutedly spring many moe branches from thence as from that liuing roote which quickneth many to eternall life Neither let any be so dismaied with the sight of my death as that therefore they themselues would not gladly vndeâ—goe the like shame of the crosse For whosoeuer is so taken vp with the loue of this life as he would not for my sake be throughly willing to put ouer the same to the extreamest aduentures of all that man without question shall loose his life Whereas they that for my sake doe make themselues ready to forgoe if neede so require their very life in this world they shal be sure to preserue the same to eternall life Yea and euen you also your selues whom I haue especially chosen my ministers to declare my said death to the world if in your said ministery you desire to serue me aright you likewise must willingly follow me your Lord and Maister now leading this dance vnto death For wheresoeuer I am there must my ministers willingly be Neither haue I any other purpose in suffering death for you but to giue you an example to follow my steps Wherein if you readily serue me assure your selues that then my father in heauen will honour you highly In deed this corporall death I confesse is extreamely fearefull to flesh and bloud For euen my very soule I assure you is so intollerably tormented with the terrours thereof as I would earnestly entreate my father that the approching hower of this my death might presently passe away were it not that euen therefore I came vnto this hower In consideration of which my determined death I will the more earnestly endeuour my selfe to vndergoe with patience the whole bickering whatsoeuer by crying incessantly vnto my father and saying Oh father glorifie thy owne name in these my appointed sufferings Moreouer to the end you may plainely perceiue the fruits of my praier you your selues shal be eare witnesses of my father his answere from heauen saying My son I haue both glorified it before in thy conception thy birth thy baptisme thy fasting thy preaching and miracles and I will now glorify it againe in thy death and resurrection because therein shal be actually effected the finall ouerthrow of satan his kingdom And howsoeuer the people here present may happely imagine this sound from heauen to be but a thunder or some voice of an Angel at the most yet I assure you it is the very thundring speech of my father himselfe Neither came this voice onely because of my selfe but for your sakes especially To teach you assuredly that euen now is the iudgement and reformation of this world because euen now must the prince of this world be actually cast foorth from thence as touching his actuall possession Yea and this so glorious a conquest ouer satan must euen now be actually effected by the power of my death wherein if I were once lift vp from the earth and fastned withall vpon the crosse I would then actually determine the actuall dominion of the diuel yea and would effectually draw his captiuated prisoners vnder my princely regiment Now all this haue I purposely spoken vnto you to shew you before hand what death I must die that so soone as you perceiue me to giue vp the ghost you may then certeinely assure your selues that the whole worke of your redemption from satan from death and from hell is actually effected finished Thus much for analysing the text it selfe Wherin you haue heard the occasion coherence proceeding and the orderly conclusion of all the premisses Lycanthropus The exposition is plaine in my simple conceite let vs therefore now heare the testimonie of writers for further confirmation thereof Orthodoxus You shall And first to begin with Augustine he saith that by the iudgement of the world we must there vnderstand not the iudgement of damnation which is reserued to the last day but the iudgement of discretion which consisteth wholie in reforming the worlde by the expelling of Satan For the diuell saith he possessed mankinde and held them guiltie of punishment through the handwriting of sinne He did dominier in the harts of Infidels and drewe them being deceiued and captiuated to worship the creature by forsaking the Creator Howbeit through that selfesame faith of Christ which by his death and resurrection was actually established and through his precious bloud which was shedde for remission of sinnes a thousand beleeuers being then actually freed from the power of the diuell were effectually coupled to the bodie of Christ and by the operation of his spirit became liuely members of his mysticall bodie For so Christ expounds himselfe in the very next words saying Now is the prince of this worlde cast foorth Vnderstanding by the particle now that which was then to bee done at his death not that which he was finally to accomplish at the generall iudgement The Lord therefore foresawe that worke which he knewe should be effected after his death and glorification namely that many thousands throughout the world should faithfully beleeue in his death From whose harts the diuel who worketh effectually in theÌ„ before should actually be driuen out by Christs death and finally be subdued through faith in his name Exorcistes The diuell then it should seeme by your speech was neuer driuen foorth from the patriarkes before the passion of Christ. Orthodoxus Not so For Christ was the Lambe slaine from the beginning of the world Neither speake we in this place of the effectual but of the actuall conquest which he made ouer Satan Yea and this I further auouch that euen as the particle now in an especiall regard of Christes actuall conquest respecteth especially the verie hower of his death so surely in some consideration also of Christs effectuall eonquest the said particle now may likewise haue a more speeiall reference to
PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus THe Lord hauing in great mercie enabled our bodies a fresh by his good blessings bestowed vpon vs it shal not be good to trifle the time but forthwith go an end in our conference Come on therefore Exorcistes repeate and prosecute your lately propounded argument Exorcistes This then it is I draue foorth a diuell from the yoongman at Mahgnitton therefore the yoongman he was actually possessed before Else how could I possiblie haue driuen foorth the diuell if he had in the yoongman no possession at all Orthodoxus I answere you thus as before The yoongman at Mahgnitton he was not actually possessed of satan therefore you could not possiblie driue a diuell from him For how is it possible you should actually dispossesse the diuel of that man in whom he was neuer actually possessea And thus still you may plainly perceiue your preposterous happe in disputing this point For notwithstanding any thing hitherto heard you are yet as farre from the probable dispatch of your pretēded actuall possession as you were at the first and wil be I warrant you so long as you insist as you do vpon the propounded question it selfe This is nothing else but to proue the same by the same the which in all ages hath bin accounted a reason without any reason at al. Howbeit because you are now fledde as it seemes to your vttermost refuge I meane to the succourlesse shelter of that your weather beaten action pretēded to be done at Mahgnitton I do verily perswade my selfe that if once you be daunted therein you will shortly giue ouer the skirmish Exorcistes Yea sir. When I see you haue prooued my action at Mahgniton no action at all concerning the actuall dispossessing of diuels I will then lay my hand on my mouth without any further replie to any thing spoken But this I suppose must not be performed in hast Orthodoxus Well then we will take so much more leisure in performing the same And therefore hauing hitherto very fully discouered that tyrannicall dominion of diuels which might anie way concerne their power of possession or their power of obsession we will now proceed next to an orderly examination of that superiour ineuitable working power whereby the aforesaid actuall possession of diuels is vndoubtedly conquered subdued squashed and euen vtterly annihilated in comparison of any the precedent poysons thereof Yea and so much the rather we entend verie carefully to follow this our entended course because in an only Imagination thereof there doth lie it should seeme the verie fortresse it selfe of all those fantasticall and idle conceits which concerne your supposed dispossessing of Satan And therefore hauing once by a conscionable discouery of the infallible truth made knowen to your conscience that your pretēded action which was wrought at Mahgnition cannot possibly chalenge the approoued priuiledge of any exordinarie power from the Lord for the actuall dispossessing of diuels I hope we may confidently conclude from the consideration thereof an apparant nullitie of all actuall possessions in these daies of the Gospel Lycanthropus That is vndoubtedly true and therefore I pray you proceede Orthodoxus With verie good will First therefore this said tyrannicall dominion of diuels respecting especially their temporarie power for actuall possession the same euer was and is effectually subdued by an onely extraordinarie a supernaturall and supereminent power of the omnipotent eternall God Which selfesame supernaturall power the Egyptian sorcerers were forcibly constrained to acknowledge for some etsbang-elohim that is some Diuine operation or vertue extraordinarily proceeding from the Almightie Iehouah himselfe And because the holy spirit of God is that onely essentiall vertue of the father and the sonne together therefore that selfesame speech of the sorcerers concerning this power it is by our Sauiour Christ euen purposely interpreted Pneuma kaidactylos theou that is the spirit and finger of God Because that selfesame holy spirit being an essentiall power equally proceeding from the Father and Sonne together doth as it were by a finger or hand verie powerfully distribute some certaine extraordinarie gifts and graces to some certaine peculiar persons peculiarly appointed of God for the actuall dispossessing of diuels And this said supereminent power of the Lord is twofold namely either immediate or mediate Exorcistes What meane you by the immediate power of God Orthodoxus I vnderstand thereby that selfesame diuine supernaturall and supereminent authority of Iesus Christ the stronger Who of him selfe alone and without any one instrument or meanes attending vpon him is that vndoubted el-gibbor that inuincible preuailing power which doth by the commaunding force of his spiritual scepter very valiantly vanquish ouercome and subdue the actuall power of satan the strong armed man notwithstanding he mainteined before a peaceable possession ouer the world Philologus And what meane you by the mediate power of God Orthodoxus I vnderstand thereby a secondary or subordinate power of the almighty Iehouah executed by some certeine speciall persons peculierly appointed by the Lord him selfe to that speciall purpose Who ministerially and in the onely name mediation and vertue of Iesus Christ doe valiantly conquere and actually ouercome the actuall power of satans possession For very certeine it is that the sonne of God he powerfully expelleth diuels by his owne immediate power whereas all other besides they do it ministerially in and by the vertue power of Christ his name Howbeit we haue yet to consider further that this same mediate power of the Lord is also twofold namely Apostolicall and Ecclesiasticall Exorcistes What meane you by the Apostolical mediate power Orthodoxus I vnderstand thereby that peculier prerogatiue or that extraordinary spirituall preheminence operation and vertue wherewith the onely wise God more especially inuested his chosen Apostles themselues concerning some extraordinary power for the powerfull expelling of diuels And all this for the more authenticall confirmation of the newly published Gospel throughout those newly established churchess wheresoeuer they came Lycanthropus And what meane you by the ecclesiasticall mediate power Orthodoxus I vnderstand thereby some extraordinary peculier priuiledge or speciall grace very extraordinarily bestowed vpon the newly established churches ouer spirits and diuels And this especially for a further more admirable approbation of the newly established Gospel so admirably planted among them before by the extraordinary preachers thereof Wherein we haue to consider further that this selfesame ecclesiasticall mediate power is here to be considered in a double respect Namely in respect either of the churches primitiue or of the churches successiue Philologus How first in consideration of the churches primitiue Orthodoxus The ecclesiasticall mediate power respecting more especially the churches primitiue was an extraordinary ability faculty vertue or force very apparantly euident in the 70. disciples and some other besides They hauing euery of them an extraordinary
power from the Lord to subdue the actuall possession of diuels during especially that primary age immediately succeeding the Apostles of Christ And this also for the more admirable watering of that selfesame Gospel of saluation so admirably planted before by Christ himselfe and his chosen Apostles Lycanthropus And how next in consideration of the churches successiue Orthodoxus The ecclesiasticall mediate power more especially respecting the churches successiue was some certeine imagined faculty ability or force in some certeine peculier persons for the timely expelling of spirits and diuels from out of newly borne infants before their admission to baptisme Hauing also for that speciall purpose their Exorcists and Exorcismes peculierly appointed thereto Which said order or rather disorder of Exorcizing in as much as it wants the warrant of the word and for that also it foisteth very odly into the church such new found offices and officers as neuer were planted by Christ it was neuer yet iustifiable in the court of conscience and we woonder not at all though the same being no plant of the almighty his planting be now plucked vp quite by the rootes Loe these be those seuerall sorts of Exorcizings which were euer yet practized in the true church of Christ since the very first time the Gospel began to be preached among them And these Exorcizings also by some others of speciall account are distinquished or intituled thus namely they are either archicall apostolicall ecclesiasticall or infanticall Howbeit respecting perspiâ—uity or plainesse and for that especially they come all to one and the selfesame period we do rather the more purposely retaine our own order rehearsed before Exorcistes But tel me I pray you were there no other sorts of Exorcizings at any time practized but these fower which your selfe haue expressed Orthodoxus Yes there hath euer beene and will be to the end of the world a certeine conterfeite or fained faculty pretended by some for expelling the possession and power of the diuel and the same also vndoubtedly proceeding from a preposterous emulation or rather from an apishimitation of that selfesame extraordinary power apparantly euident in the Apostolicall or primitiue church For in all ages of the world some certeine od persons are wonderfully affected with either glory or gaine at the least These men therefore perceiuing how easie a matter it was and how glorious a thing with the faithfull for any to haue power ouer diuels they eftsoones attempted or at least they pretended the selfesame power in themselues Yea and which more is euen satan also for the better enthronizing of himselfe in the seate of God as also for a more easie establishing of all his dangerous errours he in like manner attempted an apish imitation of this the admirable power of the Lord for the expelling of diuels And this his pestilent purpose he might so much the more easily effect by how much he plainely perceiued that the miraculous faith did not necessarily require such special persons only as were vpright with God and righteous before men Perceiuing therefore that the very hipocrites also and reprobate wretches men fit for his purpose might fully participate with that selfesame speciall power for the admirable expelling of spirits and diuels as well as the other Satan himselfe he also vndertooke that selfesame enterprise and began by himselfe and his instruments to practise the like And this said counterfeit or fained facultie for expelling the power of spirits and diuels is also foretold Namely Satanicall Ethnicall Iudaicall and Papisticall Lycanthropus What meane you by the Satanicall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame Thrasonicall brag or that Spanish-like Brauado wherwith the diuel adiured our Sauiour Christ as though by his great wordes he could skar or by his Exorcizing power he would binde our Sauiour himselfe beyond the vtmost borders of Egypt saying I adiure or coniure thee thou Christ that thou torment me nothing at all Howbeit his successe in that proude enterprise was not vnlike to the proude Spaniards successe in eightie eight for notwithstanding any their magicall skill or Thersites-like vaunts they were both constrayned to get home by weeping crosse with confusion and shame to themselues Pneumatomachus And what meane you by the Ethnicall facultie Orthodoxus That Satanicall pretended power which Satan did seeme to practise by heathenish persons as by his organicall instruments for that speciall purpose howbeit such as were strangers and forreiners from the Church of Christ. These men notwithstanding by christals by rings by stones by hearbs and such other like fooleries they would seeme to doe something in shew at the least Philologus And what meane you by the Iudaicall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame Satanicall violence which the diuell also by those his pharisaicall organons endeuoured to establish and to communicate from hand to hand vnto all the posterity following And these Iudaicall adiurations they were so much the more dangerous by how much the patrones and professors thereof did in outward appearance at least more neerely approch to the Church of God And for that also by an execrable and blasphemous prophaning of that sacred and vnexpresable name of the Lord tetragrammaton they verie pestilently pretended the powerfull establishment of their pestilent practises Yea and which more is so soone as the holy name of our Sauiour Christ began to be admirably and powerfully published abroad they eftsoones also abused that glorious name in euery of their said exorcismes adiurations or coniuring attempts Imagining the honorable name of Iesus to be much more powerfull for that speciall purpose then the name tetragrammaton was euer before And hereof it came also to passe that the seuen sonnes of Sceua the Iewe being stirred vp with a like counterfeit zeale did thereby vndertake to adiure the diuels to their cost Exorcistes Not so for Cyprian very flatly affirmeth that the diuels gaue place to their said coniurations Orthodoxus No such matter at all appeeres in the text Nay it telleth vs rather that the euill spirits ranne violently vpon those Coniurours ouercame them and preuailed against them insomuch as the Coniurours fledde foorth of that house all naked and wounden Nowe these kindes of Exorcismes were very ordinarie among manie in those daies which were not of the Colledge of Christ yea and some of them also but reprobates Which declareth plainely vnto vs that the gift of myracles was then indifferently bestowed vpon good and bad so farre off was it that any holines of that instrument effected the worke Lycanthropus And what meane you by the papisticall facultie Orthodoxus That selfesame presupposed Satanicall power which was compounded partly of Gentilisme and partly also of Iudaisme as a verie mingle-mangle or hotchpotch of all the Magicall sorceries of satan consolidate fully in one filthie confection to the more dangerous deceiuing of vnstable and ignorant persons For first they had their lygatures their herbes their consecrated verum their rootes
your selfe the maine or principall actor that thereby you may arrogate to your selfe the glory due vnto God Exorcistes That is no part of my purpose And howsoeuer the Lord alone be the onely efficient of euery such admirable action yet in sundry scriptures you know it is an ordinary vse with the Lord eftsoones to grace his Ministers with that selfesame glory of the work which is proper alone to himselfe Orthodoxus Wee are not ignorant of the course of the scriptures concerning that point Howbeit when you seeme as hetherto you haue done to speake of your selfe besides the scope of the scriptures you must pardon vs then though we esteeme not your words as canonicall scriptures But goe to you cast foorth the diuel you say now by the power of God Do tel me therefore I pray you whether you acknowledge not that selfe-same power of the Lord a mere supernaturall power and much beyond the shallow reache of any your natural faculty to attaine vnto Exorcistes Yes I acknowledge so much Orthodoxus By what meanes then did your selfe so effectually apprehend that selfe same supernaturall power of God Exorcistes By the onely meanes of my praier and fasting as I told you before Orthodoxus And I also did verely suppose you had heard enough before concerning the insufficiency of that selfesame meanes considered alone in it selfe But go to you apprehended that supernaturall power of the Lord you say by the onely meanes of your praier and fasting Doe tel me therefore where you haue any promise throughout the whole scriptures that your praier and fasting for an effectuall apprehending of that power of the Lord in any such extraordinary actions shall be effectually heard of the Lord Exorcistes Why sir our Sauiour Christ he hath giuen an infallible promise concerning euerie such action saying Whatsoeuer you aske the Father in my name he will giue it vnto you Orthodoxus Do you imagine that those words of Christ containe such a promise as tendeth directly to an absolute warrant for euerie such enterpise how extraordinarie soeuer Exorcistes I do more then imagine for I make no question thereof Orthodoxus Well then put case you your selfe by praier and fasting should vndertake to entreate the Lord foorthwith to sende fire from heauen for the admirable destruction of antichrist himselfe and all his adherents would that selfesame petiton be graunted vnto you in an onely regard of your praier and fasting Exorcistes The prophet Elijah by his onely praier obtained as great a matter as this from the Lord. Orthodoxus You wot not I perceiue now what spirit you are of Doe first prooue directly vnto vs that you haue Elijah his spirit and then proceed in Gods name to Elijah his practise spare not Howbe it because from this generall promise of Christ you doe grosly imagine that very selfesame warranted assurance for the powerfull expelling of spirits by praier fasting which Elijah obtained against Azariah and his seruants by that his speciall praier to God I am willing you should dwell in that your preposterous opinion so you can demonstrate the truth thereof by any probabilitie or reason and therefore doe frame your owne argument from that selfesame promise Exorcistes I frame it thus Whosoeuer asketh any thing of God in the name of Christ he shall vndoubtedly obtaine his request But so many as by praier and fasting doe craue an extraordinarie power for the powerfull expelling of spirits they aske something of God in the name of Christ therfore they shal vndoubtedly obtaine their request Orthodoxus The verie frame of your argument is scarce in good frame For your assumption now as all men may plainely perceiue is absurdly fallen into a fearefull consumption Because howsoyour owne selfe by these preposterous practises presumed most grosly to prophane the name of Christ as hitherto you haue done verie certeine it is that such a request may not truely be said to be either made or put vp in the name of Christ. For to aske any thing truely in the name of Christ is either to aske that which onely appertaines to the glorie of his name and kingdome alone or else that thing especially which for our speciall good we hope to obtain at the hands of our God through the gratious prerogatiue of Christ his name After the first maner of asking Elijah he called for fire from heauen and the Apostles being fearefullie threatned entreated the Lord to stretch foorth his arme that healing and signes and woonders might be done by the name of his holie sonne Iesus After the second maner of asking doe all the faithfull entreate the Lord by praier and fasting for such spirituall graces as do necessarily concerne their owne and others saluation in Iesus Christ. And hereunto onely that the forenamed generall promise made by Christ hath a more speciall relation Now then that first maner of asking things in the name of Christ being onely peculiar to such as haue some speciall motion from the holie spirit of God for such speciall requests it specially behooueth your selfe in these your admirable enterpizes to be vndoubtedly assured of some such speciall motion from that selfesame spirit of God or euer you giue the aduenture so boldly vpon such an extraordinarie practise of any your praiers and fastings Otherwise this promise of Christ it appertaineth no further vnto you then you haue an apparant warrant from the word it selfe for the ordinarie disposing of those your second maner of sutes by the gracious prerogatiue of Christs name Exorcistes Why sir I had the plaine worde of Christ for my warrant where he telleth vs plainely that that this kind goeth not foorth but by praier and fasting Orthodoxus I was verely perswaded you had taken your fill of that text before But seeing you will fasten vpon this portion of scripture afresh I am very well willing you shall haue your full pleasure thereof And therefore doe tel me plainely I pray you whether by the words this kind in that place you do only distinguish spirits and diuels from all other creatures or whether you do seuerally consider those diuels themselues according to their sundry conditions Exorcistes Nay sir I doe thereby seuerally distinguish spirits and diuels among themselues vnderstanding by the words of Christ onely those principall spirits which can no otherwaies be expelled but by praier and fasting Orthodoxus And haue all sorts of spirits or but onely those principall diuels an actuall possession in men Exorcistes Vndoubtedly all sorts of diuels haue an actuall possession in men and may by a commaunding power be compelled to depart howbeit those principall spirits whereof Christ more especially entreateth they cannot possibly be expelled but by praier and fasting as an ordinary meanes appointed of God Orthodoxus As in this answerelesse answere you would haue men imagine that a bare ordinary meanes by your ingenious handling thereof is able to effect many extraordinary matters
so it seemes againe by your speach that the Apostles of Christ were neuer acquainted before with any of those principall spirits which made them so vnreadie in that vnwoonted occurrent wherewith they were then ouertaken Besides that a man might greatly woonder how your selfe should so readily perceiue the diuell at Mahgnitton to be a diuell of that selfesame kinde in meeting with him so fitly at the first onset of all by your prayer and fasting were it not that by your long experience you are now growen such an experimented practitioner concerning the Infernall hierarchie as both you know how to conuent before you eche seuerall diuell in his seuerall kinde and which way to conuince him by his speciall name Neither may this be deemed any matter impossible for your selfe to effect at this present who a dozen yeeres since at the least could coniure foorth seuen at a clap by their seuerall names Telling the beholders thereof in what moment of time ech diuell tooke his leaue and by what speciall name he was properly called Surely this makes many wise men imagine that either you are a man profoundly experienced in the Cabalisticall craft or that else you haue too too strangely a long time deluded the simpler sort In bearing them falsely in hand that onely by your prayer and fasting you doe fully apprehend an extraordinarie power from the Lord for the powerfull expelling of diuels whereas Christ the true wisedome of the father doth tell vs that such an extraordinarie power is onely apprehended by a speciall faith Affirming withall that this speciall faith it hath prayer and fasting annexed vnto it as the onely supporters thereof and no actors at all in the admirable effecting of any such accident Exorcistes Oh then I perceiue you haue a long time mistaken my meaning For howsoeuer I vrged the holy exercise of prayer and fasting as an appointed meanes for the powerful expelling of spirits my purpose therein was neuer to exclude the action of faith it being an effectuall apprehender of that selfe same extraordinarie power of the Lord which so powerfully effecteth the worke Orthodoxus If this be your meaning we shall haue you at a non plus before it be long For seeing now you make faith an actor in that your preposterous enterprise doe tell vs directly what faith you meane Whether the historicall the iustifying or the miraculous faith for the dead faith I am certaine it was not Exorcistes Neither could it be the historicall faith because that hath onely a speciall relation but to the bare historie of the Bible it selfe without any apprehension at all of the power of God As for the miraculous faith that is thought to be ceased long since And therefore it was and is onely a iustifying faith which apprehended that power of the Lord by vertue also whereof any godly Minister or others might as effectually haue performed that action as I did my selfe Orthodoxus I am iust of your minde for that matter Howbeit if an only iustifying faith may effect such an action then hath that faith some certeine word concerning such workes with a speciall promise of such an effect But in all the whole Scriptures neither word nor promise concerning such purpose is any where extant and therefore the iustifying faith could not possiblie effect such an action Exorcistes Yes sir the iustifying faith it hath an apparant word and a promise both concerning such matter and that also from our sauiour himselfe who told the possessed childs father that if he could beleeue it his faith should vndoubtedly haue an effect because all things are possible to him that beleeueth And therewithall vpon the profession of the fathers faith our sauiour did presently expel the euil spirit from his sonne Orthodoxus You huddle vp your reckoning without your host and must therefore be enforced to reckon afresh For be it supposed our sauiour in that place doth vndoubtedly speake of a iustifying faith yet is it certeine that Christ meaneth not there the Exorcists faith but the faith of the parties possessed And so by consequence it was not your owne but the yoongman his faith at Mahgnitton that draue foorth the diuel Exorcistes Very true his faith apprehending but my faith effecting the action Orthodoxus You do ouer grosly forget your selfe For not long since it was the supernaturall power of the Lord that effected the action your owne faith apprehending onely that effectuall working power Howbeit your iustifying faith now it being but a bare apprehender before is become the powerfull effectour and the possessed mans faith the bare apprehender of that admirable action Notwithstanding whatsoeuer you dreame of Christs words concerning faith for the action he speaketh there onely of a faith in the partie the verie want whereof was that which hindred his owne disciples from effecting the worke And for this onely respect our sauiour in that partâ—ie alone reprooueth the incredulitie of that faithles generation who hauing had so long experience of his diuine operations were yet no better in the faith then the heathenish infidels Yea such a grosse incredulitie was also the very maine cause why our Sauiour himselfe at Nazaret either could not or would not worke many myracles Not that his ineuitable power was vnable of it selfe to ouerswaie their palpable impiettie but for that the Lord hauing solemnly decreed the powerfull effecting of those admirable actions by an interposition of the parties owne faith apprehending his power and by other good meanes correspondent thereto their owne vnbeliefe and hardnes of hart had so much as they might verie fearefully foreclosed the bottomles fountaine of those his spirituall graces from flowing among them Whereas on the otherside he readily yeeldeth to the timely requests of such as beleeue whatsoeuer they craue concerning those admirable actions By all the premisses then it is too too apprantly euident that Christ in this place he speaketh onely of the parties possessed and not of the Exorcistes faith at all Exorcistes But Christ afterwards told his Disciples that their owne vnbeliefe was the cause why they could not cast foorth the diuell Protesting withall that if they had but so much true faith as one graine of mustard seed they should haue beene able thereby to remooue mountaines out of their places Orthodoxus Do you vnderstand Christs words in that place of the iustifying faith alone Exorcistes Yea why not Orthodoxus Aske you why not Why man by this meanes you would bring vs in doubt of the Apostles iustification and which more is you do verie blasphemously derogate from the authoritie and dignitie of their authenticall writings Exorcistes Nay sir I call not their iustification in question but do onely declare what was the principall stoppage to that speciall action namely the not effectuall working power of their owne faith for the present Orthodoxus Well yet by the tenour of your speech you would haue vs imagine at least that the
iustifying faith of Christs disciples did oftentimes ebbe and flowe with the moone because howsoeuer the same was alwaies inherently dwelling within their harts the efficacie thereof for that present was suddenly falne to a verie low ebbe And which more is we must by the purport of your speech be further perswaded that verie many whom Christ in the generall iudgement will finally and iustly reiect as workers of iniquitie they had once notwithstanding the true iustifying faith in themselues howsoeuer they finally fell from the same For many of them also did in Christs name as effectually and as powerfully driue foorth the diuels from people possessed as did any of the rest how holy soeuer And so by consequence howsoeuer the callings and gifts of God to saluation be without repentance verie manie notwithstanding they may and do loose their iustifying faith and finally fall from the grace of God This as it strengthneth verie shrewdly the popish opinion of falling from grace so doth it mightily weaken that vndoubted assurance of the sauing faith in all the elect Exorcistes Let it strengthen or weaken whatsoeuer it will verie certaine I am that the iustifying faith may effect such a worke Orthodoxus If you meane such a worke as your faith effected at Mahgnitton of late we are growne to an issue Howbeit if you imagine that the iustifying faith may miraculously driue foorth a diuell then all the elect how vnexpert soeuer they also are sufficiently able to cast foorth spirits and diuels if they please For they are all mutually interessed in the selfesame iustifying faith and do iointly participate with all the prerogatiues thereof whatsoeuer as well as any of the rest Yea then those other preachers also who seuerally and at sundrie times did deale with the partie possessed they might as effectually haue dispatched that matter as you did your selfe vnlesse haply you imagine them but reprobates concerning the faith Besides all this if the driuing out of diuels from men be as you would haue vs imagine the vndoubted effect of a iustifying faith it must necessarily folow that so manie as cannot effect such a worke they may doubt of their iustification in Iesus Christ. Yea and those other Preachers also who eftsoones before and with your owne selfe at that present attempted the matter in vaine they may begin to make some scruple of conscience concerning the soundnes of their iustification for their faith could effect no such worke Briefly if the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels be in deed as your selfe doth auouch the essentiall effect of a iustifying faith then surely that selfesame effect so highlie surmounting verie many of the rest it would vndoubtedly haue beene reckoned vp in some one of those places at least where the other effects of that faith are purposely registred by the spirit of God Howbeit this powerfull expelling of diuels is not anie where mentioned amongst those other essentiall fruits of iustifying faith and therefore the same is no essentiall effect of anie such faith Exorcistes But in the xvj of Marke this powerfull expelling of spirits or diuels is principally put downe as an infallible effect of the faith of the Gospell For after our Sauiour Christ had spoken these words he that beleeueth and is baptized he shall be saued he that beleeueth not shall be damned then he addeth foorthwith and these tokens shall follow them that beleeue In my name they shall cast foorth Diuels speake with new toongs take away Serpents drinke any deadly thing without hurt yea and but euen lay their hands on the sicke and they shall recouer Loe all these you see are most admirable eflects Yet such I assure you as doe vndoubtedly succeed a iustifying faith in Iesus Christ. Orthodoxus I doe greatly mislike your assurance for these matters how admirable soeuer in shew they are no essentiall effects of a iustifying faith Neither were they at any time absolutely or simply but after a sort as it were the signes or tokens of faith and serued only for that primitiue age wherein the Gospel of Christ was first to be preached abroad in the world That selfesame primarie preaching of the Gospell hauing by the vnsearchable prouidence of God such signes and tokens euen purposely annexed vnto it as trumpets or criers to summon all sorts of hearers vnto the kingdome of Christ. For euen as Moses his lawe in mount Sinai and throughout the wide wildernes did gaine a woonderfull auctoritie vnto it selfe by reason of the manifold miracles effected by Moses and Aaron which said miracles notwithhanding so soone as the people of Israell possessed the promised Land did foorthwith determine So surely those selfesame miraculous actions which in the primitiue church did credit and grace the Gospell of Christ so soone as the Gospell it selfe was vniuersally published abroad in the world they foorthwith did cease and grow out of vse By all which it is verie apparant that those admirable effects they were onely but temporarie and personall prerogatiues more especially appertayning to some speciall persons accordingly as it seemed good to the Lord to bestow them himselfe in the seuerall distributions of those his seuerall graces Howbeit because those speciall graces thus personally bestowed on some few did publikely tend to the publike profit of all the elect and for that those admirable actions so admirably effected by some one peculiar person did generally serue for an vndoubted confirmation of the faith in all it therefore pleased the holy Ghost in that place indefinitely to name the beleeuers themselues as though that which was done by some one or a few had beene generally effected by all the faithfull Exorcistes Howsoeuer he speakes but of one or a few of the faithfull very certeine I am that the miraculous actions mentioned there they are such essentiall tokens as do vndoubtedly succeed the sauing faith of the Gospel Orthodoxus That those tokens succeeded the preaching of the Gospel we do neuer deny but whether they do follow the preaching of the Gospel as the essentiall effects of that iustifying faith which mutually belongeth to all the elect is the very issue of the question betweene vs the which I am willing if you please that Maister Beza doe determine for vs both in this sort To another is giuen faith by the same spirit This is not that faith saith Beza which belongeth indifferently to all the beleeuers in Christ for the Apostle in this place entreateth onely of some certeine speciall gifts of the spirit and therefore this speciall faith it hath a speciall relation vnto the effectuall power of God in working of miracles so far foorth especially as some speciall persons endued with that special gift were especially directed therin by some secret motion from the spirit of God This therefore is that faith which we call in the schooles the miraculous faith whereof an expresse mention more especially is made in the seauenteene
their censure Exorcistes Not before I haue heard their verdict Orthodoxus Well then Augustine you see hee is the foreman of the Iurie let him therefore if you please deliuer vp the verdict for himselfe and the rest Exorcistes That liketh me maruelous well Orthodoxus This then is that which he saith for him selfe and his fellowes concerning these matters Away with those fained miracles of lying men or rather those woonders wrought by enchaunting diuels Exorcistes This I am sure is a partiall verdict suggested before by some sinister meanes and therefore I will either sue foorth an attaint against the whole iury or remoue the iudgement by a writ of errour Orthodoxus Oh I pray you be patient and let the verdict passe currantly without your coutroulement Exorcistes What reason haue you to perswade me to that Orthodoxus Tertullian doth yeeld you the reason thereof Because Christ saith Tertullian hath vndoubtedly taught vs that the faith of signes and woonders which are easily effected by false Christs and hypocrites is very rash and vncerteine Exorcistes This reason concernes onely the good of the soule Physiologus We hope man you haue that in far greater regard then either the credit of your person or the welfare of your worldly estate Exorcistes Though that be certeinely so yet the other also it must be respected Physiologus Very true Howbeit because you are carried to much a way with carnal respects let Hippocrates his reason suffice for that course who saith thus Those persons which boast that they can cure or remooue the infections of maladies by sacrifices coniurations inuocations enchantments such other like magical meanes they are but beggerly and needy companions wanting promotion or mainteinance And for this onely respect they refer their speech to the diuel because they would be thought to know somewhat more then the vulgar sort Loe this is Hipocrates reason Exorcistes I way not his reason a rush Physiologus Neuer say so for shame least you make men imagine that you neither respect your credit nor conscience Exorcistes Men may imagine what pleaseth themselues howbeit the Lord alone he knoweth the hart Lycanthropus Good Exorcistes be not too singular Exorcistes Why man I may doe nothing against the truth but for the truth Pneumatomachus Wel wel be not wedded too much to your wil neither doe make I beseech you an idle of your owne wit Exorcistes I hope sir I am nether wilfull nor foolishly wise whatsoeuer your selfe or some others imagine Physiologus Then would you not be so wise as you are in your owne conceit but rather yeeld and submit to a more dexteritie Exorcistes Alasse sir I haue not hetherto heard any such sound dexteritie to submit me vnto Orthodoxus Well well Exorcistes there is something that sticks in your stomacke which makes you so loath to relent it is not I hope a vaineglorious conceit of your selfe Whatsoeuer it be we will hope the best Let vs therefore giue ouer for the present and goe take our naturall sleepe It may be when you haue taken counsell at your pillow you will change your opinion If therefore it seemeth good to your selfe I will spend with you againe one hower more in the morning before you depart and giue you the best directions I can In the meane time I wish you good rest and betake you all bodie and soule to the gratious protection and prouidence of the Almightie Physiologus Come then let vs arise and depart The end of the tenth Dialogue The eleuenth Dialogue THE ARGVMENT A summarie Recapitulation of all the premisses concludently repeating and proouing the precedent purpose with a patheticall perswasion to subscribe to the truth thereof The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOMACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus GOod morow to you all my deere brethren what newes I beseech you from Exorcistes this morning Lycanthropus Surely sir so farre as we can perceiue his Euen-song and Morne-song they are one and the same Neuertheles we haue by our vrgent and often entreaties preuailed so much with the man as that he is nowe exceedingly willing to accept of your Christian offer concerning one halfe howers conference before our departure and is heere come for that purpose Orthodoxus The Lords name be blessed for this your good newes For surely so long as he will not obstinately refuse to conferre there may be great hope of his happie conuersion Come on therefore Exorcistes what say you to our matters this morning A verdict or no verdict Exorcistes No verdict at all for any thing hitherto heard Orthodoxus Oh then I perceiue you haue either careleslie ouerslipped or not carefully obserued those things which you heard and therefore it shall not be amisse verie succinctly to recapitulate the whole course of our conference That by this meanes the matters themselues being fitly reduced to your remembrance afresh you may either be constrained to consent to the truth or be otherwise destitute of all excuse by hauing one and the selfesame truth now the second time testified to you For in the mouth of two or three witnesses the truth of these matters they must be so iudicially and so firmely established as all the sworne aduersaries thereof may Iudasly be ashamed and finally confounded Exorcistes Well sir goe an end in your purpose Orthodoxus With verie good will Wherein you must call to remembrance how that vpon the verie first entrance into these our Dialogicall discourses we tooke a due consideration of the essentiall being of spirits and diuels and then next of their vndoubted dominion or power That there are essentiall spirits and diuels we prooued directly from their essentiall creations and effectuall operations answering withall those beastly anthropomorphites and swinish Saduces who in these our daies doe impudently denie that there is either Angell or diuell And this in effect was the summe of our first conference Exorcistes It was so I confesse Orthodoxus The next concerning the vndoubted dominion or power of the diuell it was likewise apparantly prooued that spirits and diuels they haue no such possession in men as the world doth fondly imagine Both because the worde possession is no where in any such sense to be found throughout the whole Bible for that also if the same were so to be found yet must it be taken metaphorically for so onely the Scriptures doe demonstrate their nature operation and power vnto vs. Admitting you therefore the worde possession in a metaphoricall meaning wee confessed that selfesame dominion or power of spirits and diuels to be two-fold Namely either a power of possession or a power of obsession By their power of possession we vnderstood that their authenticall authoritie iurisdiction or interest which they vsurpingly by the operatiue permission of God doe exercise ouer some speciall men in afflicting tormenting and vexing their persons And this their saide power of possession it must needes be we told you either reall or actuall By the reall
it is and the effects thereof ibid. The minde how it is corrupted naturally 14 The minde differeth from the will and how ibid. Phantasie what it is and how it worketh ibid. The naturall man vnable to comprehend spirituall things 14 15 Anthropomorphites errour and whence it sprang 17 Scriptures expounded hand ouer head doe procure a thousand absurdities 18 Reasons proouing Spirits and Diuels to be more then the good or euill motions of men 18 19 Angels not mentioned in the Worlds creation 21 Angels and Spirits not eternall or vncreated 22 Angels in what day they were created 23 24 Reasons to prooue the essentiall being of Angels ibid. Testimonies of Fathers for the essentiall being of Angels 24 Angels created on the second day 24 25 Reasons to prooue the essentiall being of Angels 26 Angels how they are saide to be euill 28 To be created good and still to retaine that selfesame goodnes are two distinct things 29 Boyling affections the causes of controuersies 30 Physiologus and what the same signifieth 31 Possessions doubted in these daies of the Gospell 32 Satans dominion ouer men what it is and how the same is limited 33 Possession and what it importeth ibid. The worde Possession is not peculiarly appropriated to the Diuel throughout the whole Bible ibid. If the Lord had euer entended an essentiall possession of Diuels he wanted not fit words to expresse it 34 Possession what it is in the Hebrue toong 35 Possession what it signifieth in the Greeke toong 37 Possession how the same is defined 40 Reall possession of Diuels what it is 41 Mentall possession what it is thought to be ibid. Reall possession whether in the minde alone or in the body alone or in the minde and bodie togither ibid. Satan needs no mentall possession for the actuall accomplishment of sinne in any 42 The maner of Satan his proceeding with men 43 44 Reasons against the reall mentall possession 45 46 Our iudgement concerning the reall mentall possession is mightily deceiued by relying too much on the bare letter 48 Satan being a Spirit doth principally affect mans spirit 49 After what manner the Diuell hath a mentall possession 50 Spirits and Diuels are substantiall creatures 51 Diuels are Spirits by nature and Angels by office ibid. Diuels are spirituall and finite substances 52 53 Whether mans minde be a receptacle or place circumscribing the Diuell 53 Whether mans minde be a common or proper place for the Diuell 54 Whether it be a corporall or an imaginarie place 55 Things are said to be in a place three maner of waies 56 Corporall substances are in a place dimensiuely ibid. Spirituall substances are in a place determinately 57 God is in a place indefinitiuely and repletiuely ibid. Angels and Diuels howsoeuer they propound diuers ends their maner of working is euer the same 58 Diuels how and by what meanes they torment men 60 God is the onely encliner of mans minde 61 Mans minde is inclined either by an interiour efficient or by an exterior agent 62 The third Dialogue pag. 64. COrporall possession what it is supposed to be of some 65 Reall corporall possession what it is ordinarily thought to be ibid. Entring in and dwelling there do imply no essentially inherency but an effectuall operation in the bodies of men 66 The Metaphor of entring in rightly expounded and fitly explicated by the example of Saul and Dauid 67 The word Tsalak verie truely expounded by conference with other places of scripture 68 A good rule for the right vnderstanding of such scriptures as doe any way concerne the extraordinarie operation of Spirits 69 Sundrie reasons against the reall corporall possession 70 Mans minde is an incorporall substance being simply considered 70 71 The proper operations of the minde are either organicall or animall ibid. The organicall operations of the minde what they are 72 The animall operations of the minde what they are ibid. Whether mans minde or the Diuell be answerable for the actions done by the bodie during the time of Satans possession 73 74 God in the first creation of bodies neuer purposed any such reall corporal possessions of Diuels 74 Gods image was not lost in Adam as touching the essence 76 A humane bodie is onely capable of an humane soule 77 Satan so possesseth as Christ inuadeth ibid. There is no one necessarie vse or end of such a possession ibid. If the Diuell be in the possessed mans bodie essentially then is he so either hypostatically or formally 78 How the reall corporall possession may be perceiued 78 79 Whether Diuels haue their proper or their assumed bodies or whether no bodies at all 80 Celestiall bodies haue onely their celestiall motions and elementarie bodies their elementarie motions 80 81 Grosse absurdities ensuing the opinion of corporall Diuels ibid. It is absurd to hold that Diuels haue airie bodies 82 Augustine is not sound concerning the supposed airie bodies of Spirits and Diuels 83 Though it were graunted that Diuels might adde vnto yet may they not diminish or alter their substantiall being 84 Fower seuerall sorts of Spirits found in the word ibid. Angels haue eftsoones their assumed bodies and why 85 The testimonie of fathers pretending corporall Diuels 86 Reasons directly concluding the incorporietie of Diuels 94 Testimonie of fathers concerning that point 95 The Grand Iuries verdict against corporall Diuels 96 The Laterane Councell concluding the same 97 The fourth Dialogue pag. 99. WHether Diuels can essentially assume true naturall bodies 9. Whether that bodie which the Diuels are supposed to assume be a true naturall or but a phantasticall bodie 100 The Diuell had neuer power to assume essentially any liuing mans bodie pag. 101 The Diuel had neuer power to assume essentially any dead mans body ibi It is absurd to hold the Diuell his assuming of dead mens bodies 101 102 Whether the Diuell can assume to himselfe an vncreated bodie 102 The Lord alone is the onely creator of bodies ibid. It is absurd to imagine that God should create bodies for Satan 103 Satan hath no power at all to create a bodie 104 Arguments pretending the Diuell his essentiall assuming of bodies 105 It is no good argument to hold that because good Angels haue therefore euill Angels may also assume to themselues true natural bodies 105 106 That place in the Psalme 78. 49. is verie truely expounded 107 The Diuell did not essentially assume to himselfe the serpents body 108 Whether it was the Diuell alone or the serpent alone or the Diuell and serpent together that tempted Euah 109 It is ordinarie in the scriptures to vse the names of other creatures in setting foorth vnto vs the intellectuall creatures 111 Reasons declaring why it was not the serpent but the Diuell himselfe set foorth by the name of a serpent that tempted Euah ibid. A verie good Canon for the faithfull expounding of scriptures 112 It is no absurditie or impietie at all to hold that Moses vnder the person of a poysoning serpent did metaphorically
by nature reiecting al maner of compulsion although yet by perswading and alluring they may after a sort be saied to encline and to moue the mind Now then this their enclining you see it consists not in anie essentiall possession but onely in an effectuall operation whereof we wil discourse to the ful when we come to entreate of actual possession In the meane time do now cease for shame to auouch any longer the mental possession of diuels Lycanthropus Wel sir howsoeuer you denie the mental possession of diuels I doubt not but they may haue a corporall possession in men Orthodoxus This point will require a large discourse And therefore let vs here giue ouer a time till after our supper and then if you please we will conferre thereof for an hower or two Physiologus Your motion is good and we willingly yeeld Orthodoxus Then let vs in Gods name arise and depart to my house to a schollers repast Philologus The Lord be blessed for that which he sends Lycanthropus We will willingly attend vpon you The end of the second Dialogue The third Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels do essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie And whether for that purpose they haue peculiar to themselues true naturall bodies The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOM'ACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus HAuing seated our selues in order I would very willingly know what it is that Lycanthropus requireth-concerning the corporall possession of diuels Physiologus Good sir he is old enough to expresse his owne minde let him therefore speake for himselfe Lycanthropus Yea sir I am of age I hope to tell my owne tale howsoeuer I meane not to make you my Proctor Physiologus If you would I were like to speake verie sparingly in so badde a cause vnlesse you could haply corrupt my conscience with a left-handed bribe Lycanthropus Howsoeuer your selfe may haply stand in some neede of a proctorly bribe my cause it standes in no neede of bribe-pursing Proctor Orthodoxus I like not these girding quippes for howsoeuer they demonstrate some sharpenesse of witte they argue much want of a charitable patience Besides that they are nothing to the purpose we come for and therefore good Lycanthropus goe directly to worke and tell me what you desire to know concerning the corporall possession of spirits and diuels Lycanthropus My desire is to know whether spirits and diuels do essentially enter into the bodies of men Orthodoxus For answere hereunto it shall not be greatly amisse first to shew what the corporall possession of diuels is supposed to be and then next to declare mine owne opinion concerning that point Lycanthropus What I pray you is the corporall possession Orthodoxus It is that whereby the diuell is supposed of some euen really and essentially to enter into and substantially and inherently to dwell in the possessed mans bodie during the whole terme of that his tyrannicall dominion ouer the man whom he so really and personally possesseth Lycanthropus This supposed possession of diuels I suppose is vndoubtedly sound but what is your owne opinion cōcerning this point Orthodoxus My opinion is this namely that the diuels neuer had anie such reall possession in men but onely an actuall possession Lycanthropus Conclude you then that the diuels haue in men no corporall possession at all Orthodoxus If by corporall possession you doe meane that the diuels essentially enter into and inherently dwel in the possessed mans bodie I see then no reason at all but that I may boldly conclude it Neither do I perceiue how your selfe should euer be able to contradict the infallible truth thereof For verie certeine I am that no such essentiall possession is any where extant in all the Bible Lycanthropus Oh yes sir in euery place of the Bible almost especially there where those matters are handled it is said the diuels entred into them that they enter in and dwell there that Christ charged the diuell to come out of the childe and to enter no more into him and so foorth All which places doe plainly demonstrate that the diuels haue really a corporall possession in men at the least Orthodoxus I see no such matter demonstrated frō any of those places Lycanthropus No doe What I pray you can be more plaine then this come out and enter no more into him Is there not a most plaine opposition betweene entring into and going out from And are not the words in the originall and enter no more into him What can be more plaine I beseech you Orthodoxus That there is an apparant opposition betweene entring into and going out from I freely confesse the words also in the originall I plainely approoue although yet I graunt from thence no reall possession Else how vnderstand you this place in the Apocalypse where the Lord saith and I will enter in vnto him What now because the holy Ghost there vseth the verie selfesame word of entring into must we therefore thus grossely imagine that the Lord God he also essentially entreth into the harts of so many as open vnto him by faith and repentance that were too too absurde Also where it is said that after Iudas receiued the soppe then Satan entred into him Albeit the verie selfesame word of entring into be vsed here also yet may we at no hand conclude that therefore the diuell had in him an essential possession no for the holy Ghost else where doth otherwaies expound himselfe saying that the diuel had now darted or thrust into Iudas his hart to betray his maister Making the entring of the diuell into Iudas his hart to be nothing else but a suggesting or thrusting of the entended treason into him as was shewed before Whereupon it is verie apparant you see that this going out and this entring in of the diuel may not so grossely be vnderstood of any real or substantiall possession but onely of an effectual and powerful operation Lycanthropus Nay sir by your patience there is more to be vnderstoode therein then onely an effectual operation For the Euangelist saith thus and entring in they do dwel there Now then dwelling in a place you know it doth not onely presuppose an essentiall entrance into that selfesame place but concludeth withall a real possession there where the partie possessing doth really inhabite Orthododoxus Howsoeuer you insist vpon the bare words of entring and dwelling yet no real possession but onely an effectual operation must be vnderstood thereby Otherwaies what thinke you of this place where our Sauiour saith If any man loue me he wil keepe my word and my father wil loue him and we wil come vnto him and dwel with him Now then to vse your owne reason dwelling in a place you know it doth not onely presuppose an essential entrance into that selfesame place but concludeth withall a real possession there where the partie possessing doth really inhabite And so by consequence if we strictly tye our selues vnto words