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A91052 A short answer to a book set forth by seven priests, who call themselves ministers of the gospel of Christ; but are plainly discovered to be lyers, and slanderers, and envious of them who are the true ministers of Christ, who abide in his doctrine. With a vvord to the reader, to read with understanding, and let the light of Jesus Christ within judge; for to that in the conscience it is spoken. H. P. 1654 (1654) Wing P36; Thomason E808_10; ESTC R207524 32,741 32

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your selves to be of them the Apostle speaks of that would be some body in conference but not in possession and hath got the form which the Apostle bids turn away from for immediate you have denied and so you are to be denied with the power and as touching Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Paradice and the Prophets and the holy men of God silence flesh for immediate you deny and all these things who knows them are immediately sent of God for all Scripture being given forth immediately by the Spirit and is of no private interpretation but holy men of God spake as they were moved of the holy Ghost And here you are manifest to be no Ministers of the Spirit but following your own inventions who saith you are not sent forth immediately as the Apostles were and here you may well enough stumble at the light who denies that you are sent forth immediately as the Apostles were And here all the children of light may see you to be formalists Joseph Kellet John Pomrey Paul Glisson and the rest who saith you are not sent forth immediately I command you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to give over deceiving the people and be silent you murtherers of their souls who saith you are not sent forth immediately as the Apostles were make a scorn and derision of them that would have you live in what you speak but go on for destruction is your portion in the vain and blasphemous philosophy you are and your conclusion shall stand for your selves who are in the rottenness of your hearts and body of iniquity and you are not as the Apostles were and so you have denied the life that gave forth the Scriptures for all Scripture being given forth immediately and they that gave them forth were sent of God and you that go forth to preach which saith you are not sent forth immediately are in the state of them that err'd not knowing the Scripture for they are not known but with that Spirit which gave them forth which was immediate And here with all the children of light you are judged not to be of God nor sent of God out of your own mouths Whereas you say That them you call Quakers do admonish you to wait in silence till God open your mouths and they would not have any to read pray and teach but when the Spirit of the Lord leads them We cannot close with this Here all the holy men of God shall witness against you I take them all to record and you to be contrary to them and your prayers to be abomination and your teachings not of the Spirit and contrary to the Apostle who said He would pray with the Spirit And here you are contrary to his doctrine and contrary to the Scripture and the Apostle said The holy men of God spake as they were moved of the holy Ghost and they speak as the Spirit gave them utterance and Christ saith The Spirit of the Father speaks in you And here again you are contrary to Christs doctrine and the Apostles who cannot close with the Spirits praying and the Spirts teaching And there you shew you are Babylon again and in the error err'd from the life and doctrine of the Apostles And here I leave you to be judged by all the children of light and to walk out of the foot-steps of Christ and his flock who say you are not sent immediately as the Apostles were but praying in families and reading and instructing of children and bringing up in the fear of the Lord and teaching according to the Apostles doctrine we own who was a Minister of the Spirit but not of the letter And this we seek to bring all people to into the life which gave forth the Scriptures and all your experiences and teachings are to be trampled upon who cannot close with the praying of the Spirit and the Spirits leading to pray and teach Here out of the Apostles doctrine you are seen clearly to be with all the children of God Now you say To the best of your understanding That them you call Quakers gives equal liberty for men and women in assemblies to pray Here you do shew your selves to be them that would limit the Spirit of God for God saith He will pour out his Spirit upon all flesh and his sons and daughters shall prophesie the Apostle saith They may all prophesie one by one And here you shew again you are contrary to the Apostles doctrine and your understanding to be bruitish and as touching the assemblies of the Saints silence flesh or their prayers either for either male or female with the Spirit of the Lord they may teach or pray but you that deny the Spirit and cannot close with his praying or teaching either you have got a popish law of Queen Maries that when some hath been moved to come into your Synagogues some hath been beat some stoned some stocked and haled before Magistrates and imprisoned as many in these northern parts may witness Whereas you say They speak after their trembling with an extent voice as the Oracles of God and them you call Quakers do not leave you time to try their sayings as the Apostle did to the Bereans O ye lyers doth not the whole Scripture witness trembling and the Saints gave forth the Scriptures and such had the Oracles of God and we witness the same Spirit now the Saints in light you cannot deceive but the blinde you may lead into the ditch for a while And whereas you speak of magnifying papers equal to the holy Scriptures The same Spirit which gave forth the Scriptures which gives forth now is as true as the Scriptures and not contrary to the Scriptures He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith Whereas you are tormented at those that forsake pride in apparel and receiving honour of man and giving honour to man is it not according to Scripture and the doctrine of Christ who saith How can ye believe which seeks honour one of another And there you shew your selves to be out of the belief and the doctrine of Christ which cross the Saints doth pass through to eternal life which cross is to the world which cross you live without who are puft up And whereas you are speaking for your schools and learning There you shew where you are in the first nature not in that as the Apostles were in who counted all loss and dung and denied all his bringing up and learning in the first birth for the excellency of Christ when he knew the excellency of him Whereas you speak of buying and selling Now you shew where your mindes are yet lawfulness justice and equity we own for this is of God righteousness in man yea nay in all communication we own and all filthy merchandize we trample upon where we see you to be your mindes in the earth your God is your belly you glory in your shame and to be the evil beasts the
the works of the devil and his servants ye are to whom ye obey and this light must be owned before he be owned Wherein ye cry out Ye cannot hold your peace for the deceit we seem to lay upon Christ and his Spirit which is but the light of nature not the light of Christ as a mediator Ye blasphemers who calls the light of Christ the light of nature which Jesus Christ is the light that enlightneth every man and is the Mediatour wherein ye are found to be them that draw back to perdition and not to the saving the Soul in drawing from the obedience of the light which is the light of Christ in man which shews him his natural condition which the Apostle exhorteth to take heed unto until the day dawned and the day-star did arise and such experienced ones as you are lives in jealousies which are as strong as death who stumbles at the light of Christ and calls it natural O high blasphemers You shew along that you are them that hates the light and hate them that walk in it who are troubled at them you call Quakes who saith That the light of Christ doth discover their thoughts and sin and yielding to it power is given from God to stand against thoughts and sin And this you call free will And as it is written They that waited upon the Lord their strength was renewed and here let all the children of light which be in the light contrary to their own wills and contrary to the will of man you judge and therefore it makes you stumble at it and here in this you have denied all the waiting upon God in the light and watchings with the light which hath declared that all your watchings and waitings is without the light an imitation which is to be condemned with the light and many derisions and reproaches have you given forth in your book but these we wave because they do not touch us And whereas you say While you change the Name and call the light Christ Here you have declared you are not Ministers of the letter Christ saith He is the light of the world so say we so it is you cannot own his name but stumbles at the light stumbles at the Mediator so if the babes of Christ should be silent the stones in the walls would cry out against you And whereas you say Reformation reaches not the work of regeneration O ye blinde Hypocrits and corrupt Judges doth not the same that reforms regenerate but you are without both And whereas you say By his disobedience not obeying the light he may fall from that eternal salvation which began to work in him by the power of light And this is your implies and so you interpret our words as you do the Scriptures you that oppose the light you oppose your eternal salvation and as touching eternal salvation you that stumble at the light are for eternal destruction and condemnation with the light which you stumble at and who turnes from the light turns from the salvation and draws back into perdition And whereas you say There is no mention made in any of your papers of eternal salvation from the wrath to come or condemnation of hell by any atonement or price of blood or sacrifice from the dominion of evil by Jesus Christ Eternal salvation from the wrath to come and condemnation of hell I witness by the price of blood of Jesus Christ which is without you and from the dominion of evil by Jesus Christ which your fathers crucified you their children seek to crucifie him where he is made manifest which stumbles at the light and thou ands do begin to confess That they are made free from the wrath to come the dominion of evil by Jesus Christ who is the same yesterday to day and for ever which witness the price of blood by which they are redeemed which makes them clean from your generation which hate the light Priest And now you come to declare your own belief you speak of the promise of the power of the Father and the Gospel and the lost sheep and Faith But to you I answer which stumble at the light you stumble at the promise at the power of the Father at the Gospel and at the Spirit as you plainly make it appear which scorns them you call Quakers which in the Scripture there is a cloud of witnesses against you And whereas you say If they can tell how the bones grow in the womb of her that is with child they may come neer to trace out this work of God We who are in the second birth know the first and how things genders and works and so with it we discern where you are And whereas you say You are children born not of blood nor of the will of man nor after the will of the flesh but of his own will hath he begotten us by the word of truth O ye thieves and robbers I charge in the presence of the living God to be so for these are John's and James's words who speaks of being born not of blood nor of the will of man but of his own will hath he begotten us what have you to do with these things that stumble at the light so you stumble at the truth and how can you glorifie God the Maker who stumbles at the light and so it 's you that deny the resurrection for we do witness the worst sort of men turned to God with his light so we witness the Scriptures fulfill'd Publicans and Harlots enter in before you Priest 2. You are speaking of waiting on Christ for renewing of strength morning by morning Ye enemies of God how can ye wait upon Christ who stumble at the light and writes against it for if you waited upon Christ according to the Scriptures you would own the light and there would be unity in the light but this light which ye stumble at shall condemn you to be no waiters upon the Father nor Christ And whereas you are speaking of the Saints assemblies Reply You that stumble at this light stumbles at the Saints assemblies as you make it appear in this book and the Sons of God and the children of Faith and as you say You are tied to all means so you would tie all to your means and the Lord is tied to none Here you shew you are not of the Lord for who are of the Lord are freed from ties and from the Ordinances of men and outward means which you finde your spirit is tied to contrary to the Spirit of God for where the Spirit of God is there is liberty And whereas you say The children of God all their life-time are found groaning under the burthen of sin Here your Spirit and experiences are tried again to be contrary to the Scriptures and all the Saints for the children of God born of God doth not commit sin and he that is born of God overcomes the world and as he is so are we in this
present world and rejoyce evermore and they sung Hallelujah and the kingdom of God stands in righteousness joy and peace in the Holy Ghost Here I charge you in the Spirit of the living God to be lyers And you say That the children of God are found groaning all their life long under the burthen of sin Now I take all the children of the light to judge you and may see the Scripture to witness against you and see that your experience is contrary to the Saints in Scripture and as touching the second coming of Christ as you speak silence flesh who stumbles at his light for you that stumbles at his light stumbles at him But blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who hath given us an understanding with his light which you stumble at You Priests have been looked on to be the props and pillars of the truth but now the truth hath discovered you to be the props of Antichrists kingdom having the form as the Pharisees had And again you are speaking of the Apostles faith and the seed and the promises and of Abraham Isaac and Jacob All these are our witnesses who witness the promise of God to the seed but as for you that stumble at the light you have but the form as the Pharisees had who saith you are found all your life time groaning under the burthen of sin Here you shew your selves to be them that lead silly women captive led away with divers lusts ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth that the Apostle spoke of but lies groaning under your sins who said They ha● put off the body of sin and was made free from sin Here your experiences are tried again to be contrary to the Scriptures and the Saints lives so we have weighed you to be contrary to the Scriptures and the Apostles you that say you lay groaning under the burthen of sin bound under the temptations and snares of the divel who are without God in the world And whereas you say That whosoever bids man take heed to the light within which the eternal Word hath enlightned which enlightens him which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world in attendance thereto puts man besides the way of life and saith This assertion puts men quite besides the way of salvation to attend upon that light which comes from the eternal word If this put men aside from the way of life and put men quite beside the way of salvation to wait upon the light which comes from the eternal Word Here again I take all the children of light to record how you are confused and are beside the way of life and salvation for none knows the way of salvation life peace and righteousness but who owns this eternal light which is in the eternal Word and so here all may see it is you that bring men quite besides the way of life and eternal salvation and terms the light of Christ to be the light of nature and not pure And so there you blasphemers are discovered to be the foxes that spoil the vineyards And you say What shall we think of Paul who found the law in his members warring Here you shew you are stangers to Pauls condition when you have learned it you shall know it but them that stumbles at the light stumbles at his condition and here your experiences are tried again to be contrary to the Scriptures You say You grant to walk up to the law or light of nature shall have the light of Grace or Gospel revealed to him and yet you say You never knew the Gospel bestowed upon any such person and say You more then doubt whether ever they stood before the throne of glory Here you are confused let the Reader take notice was not the light of Moses the light of the Gospel who wrote of Christ shall they receive Light Grace Gospel and not stand before the throne of glory you grant they may receive it then here they may fall from the throne of glory which you was accusing them of you call Quakers before they that fall from the light fall from the eternal salvation And so O man thus thy condemnation ariseth of thy self Whereas you say Men taking heed to the light which Christ hath enlightned them withal takes away the ministration of the Gospel and shuts the kingdom of God from men Here you have manifested your selves to be in the generation of the Pharisees who hath the letter to talk of as they had but the light wherewith Christ hath enlightned shuts not the kingdom of heaven from men but you that denies the light shuts the kingdom of God from men and so denies the Gospel and them that hate this light preaches not the Gospel but their own inventions and takes away the authority of the Scriptures who are in the same nature of your fathers that murthered the Prophets Christ and the Apostles and you the children of them now where the life and power is made manifest among the Quakers you act the same part of your fathers which all the righteous blood was shed by Whereas you say Your chief contention is for the Gospel administred by man Here you contend for that the Apostle denied not by man had he received it neither was he made an Apostle by man And here your Spirit is tried to be contrary to the Apostles and the Scripture Whereas you say You know not how any should believe unless they hear the testimony of the Apostles or their words Here you shew you to be in the generation of them who hoards the Apostles words as your fathers read the Prophets and Apostles words but persecuted Christ Blessed is he that believes and sees not And you say You cannot tell how men should believe unless they saw the Apostles conditions Here you shew your selves to be in the Jews doting condition who are Ministers of the letter and your faith is theirs and both is dead he that believes is born of God without Scripture and yet witnessed in Scripture And whereas you slander and say Them you call Quakers aimes to beguile you of Scripture themselves they say this Light or Gospel within you it is the sure word of prophesie Here let all see you to be lyers whether we do not set the Scriptures in the heart of every one for every one having the light within which shews his evil deeds which light is his condemnation that hates it this is Scripture within Here we do not take it from them but that every one might possess it within as it was given forth from within from the life and that they might take heed to the sure word of prophesie till the day-star arise in their hearts as the Apostles exhorts the Saints and that was within And so here again we do not take Scripture from you but it is that you might be seen to be lyers who seek to draw people from the light within from the