let_v we_o therefore_o come_v bold_o unto_o the_o throne_n of_o grace_n that_o we_o may_v obtain_v mercy_n and_o find_v grace_n to_o help_v in_o time_n of_o need_n or_o be_v it_o final_o that_o the_o interest_n of_o the_o bless_a jesus_n be_v not_o great_a enough_o with_o his_o father_n unless_o you_o add_v a_o mad_a francis_n a_o bloody_a dominick_n a_o rebellious_a becket_n a_o enthusiastic_a ignatius_n to_o be_v joint_a advocate_n with_o he_o if_o these_o indeed_o be_v your_o thought_n let_v we_o plain_o know_v the_o impiety_n of_o they_o and_o upon_o what_o unchristian_a foundation_n the_o benefit_n of_o this_o practice_n be_v establish_v by_o you_o but_o if_o you_o dare_v not_o say_v that_o any_o saint_n in_o heaven_n can_v prevail_v where_o christ_n alone_a not_o if_o you_o be_v ashamed_a to_o own_o that_o you_o think_v any_o one_o can_v love_v we_o more_o dear_o than_o he_o who_o give_v himself_o for_o we_o and_o redeem_v we_o with_o his_o own_o most_o precious_a blood_n or_o by_o consequence_n can_v be_v more_o ready_a to_o hear_v and_o intercede_v for_o we_o tell_v i_o then_o what_o profit_n be_v it_o that_o have_v this_o fountain_n of_o live_a water_n you_o run_v to_o the_o break_a cistern_n of_o the_o merit_n and_o intercession_n of_o your_o fellow_n creature_n which_o can_v hold_v no_o water_n 141._o but_o i_o will_v go_v yet_o further_o to_o show_v you_o the_o unprofitableness_n of_o this_o service_n it_o be_v object_v by_o a_o great_a man_n of_o your_o own_o church_n 4._o durand_n in_o scent_n iu_o d._n 45._o q._n 4._o if_o say_v he_o the_o saint_n know_v our_o necessity_n and_o those_o defect_n which_o we_o express_v in_o our_o prayer_n how_o come_v it_o to_o pass_v that_o we_o do_v not_o often_o find_v ourselves_o relieve_v by_o they_o to_o this_o he_o answer_v answer_v that_o although_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n have_v doubtless_o the_o great_a charity_n imaginable_a for_o we_o yet_o they_o have_v withal_o their_o will_n so_o entire_o conform_v to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n as_o not_o to_o lend_v any_o assistance_n to_o we_o but_o according_a to_o what_o they_o see_v the_o knowledge_n and_o will_n of_o god_n dispose_v towards_o we_o a_o excellent_a reflection_n certain_o and_o which_o no_o one_o can_v doubt_v to_o be_v most_o true_a but_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v from_o it_o that_o you_o do_v in_o vain_a solicit_v the_o saint_n who_o can_v lend_v you_o any_o assistance_n till_o god_n be_v please_v to_o permit_v himself_o to_o be_v entreat_v for_o you_o whilst_o our_o heavenly_a father_n be_v our_o enemy_n all_o the_o host_n of_o heaven_n be_v so_o too_o we_o must_v first_o be_v reconcile_v to_o he_o before_o ever_o we_o can_v expect_v any_o favour_n or_o acceptance_n with_o they_o in_o short_a it_o be_v the_o conclusion_n of_o a_o ancient_a father_n who_o i_o before_o mention_v that_o the_o only_a way_n to_o make_v the_o angel_n and_o saint_n our_o friend_n be_v to_o make_v god_n so_o first_o and_o though_o we_o know_v little_a of_o what_o those_o bless_a spirit_n above_o do_v for_o we_o yet_o we_o have_v all_o the_o reason_n in_o the_o world_n to_o believe_v that_o they_o love_v and_o hate_n according_a to_o the_o divine_a pleasure_n and_o if_o they_o do_v pray_v for_o we_o the_o most_o ready_a way_n to_o obtain_v their_o prayer_n be_v to_o be_v constant_a and_o zealous_a and_o persevere_v both_o in_o our_o prayer_n and_o piety_n towards_o god_n through_o his_o son_n jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n 142._o i_o shall_v conclude_v this_o with_o the_o word_n of_o s._n austin_n 1664._o de_fw-fr verâ_fw-la religione_fw-la p._n 290._o lugd._n 1664._o let_v it_o not_o be_v any_o matter_n of_o religion_n to_o we_o to_o worship_n dead_a man_n because_o if_o they_o have_v live_v well_o they_o desire_v no_o such_o honour_n but_o rather_o that_o we_o shall_v worship_v he_o by_o who_o illumination_n they_o rejoice_v that_o we_o be_v companion_n of_o their_o piety_n they_o be_v therefore_o to_o be_v honour_v for_o our_o imitation_n not_o to_o be_v worship_v out_o of_o religion_n and_o the_o same_o let_v we_o think_v of_o angel_n that_o they_o above_o all_o thing_n desire_v that_o we_o shall_v together_o with_o they_o worship_n god_n only_o in_o who_o vision_n they_o be_v happy_a tie_v our_o soul_n to_o he_o alone_o from_o which_o religion_n derive_v its_o very_a name_n let_v we_o lay_v aside_o all_o superstition_n behold_v i_o worship_n one_o god_n the_o one_o principle_n of_o all_o thing_n whatsoever_o angel_n love_v this_o god_n i_o be_o sure_a that_o he_o love_v i_o too_o whosoever_o remain_v in_o he_o and_o can_v understand_v the_o prayer_n of_o man_n in_o he_o he_o hear_v i_o whosoever_o have_v god_n for_o his_o good_a do_v in_o he_o help_v i_o let_v the_o adorer_n of_o the_o part_n of_o the_o universe_n tell_v i_o what_o good_a person_n be_v there_o that_o he_o do_v not_o reconcile_v to_o himself_o who_o worship_n he_o only_o who_o every_o good_a person_n love_v and_o in_o who_o knowledge_n he_o rejoice_v and_o by_o recur_v to_o which_o principle_n he_o become_v good_a let_v therefore_o religion_n bound_v we_o to_o the_o one_o god_n almighty_a etc._n etc._n but_o i_o insist_v too_o long_o on_o these_o reflection_n i_o add_v only_o second_o to_o close_v all_o that_o this_o invocation_n of_o saint_n depart_v be_v as_o impious_a as_o it_o be_v unprofitable_a 143._o for_o first_o to_o take_v this_o practice_n in_o the_o most_o moderate_a sense_n that_o may_v be_v yet_o to_o pray_v to_o any_o creature_n after_o the_o manner_n that_o you_o do_v to_o the_o saint_n depart_v be_v to_o make_v they_o the_o object_n of_o a_o proper_a religious_a worship_n and_o to_o pay_v that_o service_n to_o the_o creature_n which_o be_v due_a only_a to_o the_o creator_n and_o this_o certain_o can_v be_v do_v without_o a_o very_a great_a impiety_n 144._o second_o to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n but_o only_o as_o intercessor_n even_o this_o do_v usurp_v upon_o the_o peculiar_a prerogative_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n who_o be_v our_o only_a mediator_n and_o who_o singular_a privilege_n it_o be_v to_o appear_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n for_o we_o and_o to_o join_v other_o with_o christ_n in_o his_o great_a office_n and_o employment_n to_o make_v to_o ourselves_o new_a mediator_n what_o be_v this_o but_o tacit_o at_o least_o to_o imply_v that_o we_o dare_v not_o trust_v either_o his_o mercy_n or_o his_o interest_n in_o the_o concern_n of_o our_o everlasting_a salvation_n but_o then_o 145._o three_o to_o pray_v as_o you_o evident_o do_v not_o only_o that_o the_o saint_n will_v intercede_v for_o you_o but_o that_o god_n will_v be_v merciful_a to_o you_o not_o only_o through_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n but_o of_o the_o saint_n who_o memory_n you_o celebrate_v this_o be_v a_o downright_a undervalue_v of_o our_o saviour_n blood_n and_o do_v despite_n unto_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n 146._o four_o to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n as_o if_o we_o may_v be_v allow_v to_o understand_v the_o meaning_n of_o plain_a word_n you_o do_v as_o the_o arbitrary_a dispenser_n of_o benefit_n to_o you_o that_o they_o will_v themselves_o grant_v you_o those_o thing_n which_o you_o ask_v of_o they_o this_o make_v your_o service_n yet_o more_o intolerable_a and_o though_o you_o seek_v to_o evade_v the_o justice_n of_o this_o censure_n by_o those_o unreasonable_a exposition_n of_o your_o prayer_n i_o have_v before_o refute_v yet_o i_o be_o sure_a it_o ought_v to_o be_v more_o than_o enough_o to_o make_v we_o avoid_v that_o practice_n which_o can_v be_v excuse_v but_o by_o such_o force_a interpretation_n as_o shall_v man_n use_v the_o like_a on_o other_o occasion_n all_o society_n must_v be_v overthrow_v and_o man_n word_n be_v no_o long_o rely_v upon_o as_o sufficient_a to_o declare_v the_o sense_n of_o their_o mind_n 147._o five_o as_o to_o what_o concern_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o people_n in_o this_o point_n it_o can_v be_v deny_v nay_o it_o be_v by_o some_o of_o your_o own_o church_n open_o complain_v of_o how_o much_o their_o hope_n and_o confidence_n their_o love_n and_o service_n be_v hereby_o lessen_v towards_o god_n and_o what_o great_a sign_n of_o zeal_n appear_v in_o they_o towards_o the_o bless_a virgin_n than_o towards_o our_o saviour_n christ_n himself_o and_o indeed_o you_o who_o ought_v to_o have_v better_o inform_v they_o be_v the_o very_a person_n that_o have_v especial_o help_v to_o mislead_v they_o it_o be_v from_o you_o they_o have_v learn_v as_o a_o great_a practice_n of_o piety_n to_o salute_v she_o ten_o time_n for_o god_n once_o it_o be_v you_o that_o have_v teach_v they_o to_o join_v mary_n still_o with_o jesus_n in_o their_o mouth_n insomuch_o as_o if_o it_o be_v possible_a to_o let_v her_o
meaux_n tell_v we_o that_o all_o the_o prayer_n of_o your_o church_n be_v their_o word_n never_o so_o repugnant_a must_v yet_o be_v reduce_v to_o this_o sense_n pray_v for_o we_o but_o you_o have_v often_o be_v tell_v that_o this_o be_v utter_o disallow_v by_o we_o however_o to_o take_v off_o all_o occasion_n of_o cavil_v as_o far_o as_o be_v possible_a i_o will_v offer_v you_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n in_o such_o term_n as_o you_o shall_v have_v no_o just_a cause_n to_o except_v against_o it_o viz._n whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n after_o the_o manner_n that_o be_v at_o this_o day_n prescribe_v and_o practise_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o i_o will_v so_o far_o comply_v with_o you_o as_o to_o consider_v it_o in_o both_o respect_n 1._o according_a to_o your_o own_o representation_n of_o it_o 2._o according_a to_o that_o which_o be_v indeed_o your_o practice_n and_o free_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o great_a man_n of_o your_o church_n to_o be_v so_o i._o point_n whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n to_o pray_v for_o we_o 3._o this_o be_v the_o least_o that_o can_v possible_o be_v make_v of_o this_o matter_n and_o because_o i_o will_v bring_v the_o point_n to_o the_o fair_a issue_n that_o may_v be_v as_o i_o have_v propose_v the_o question_n according_a to_o your_o own_o desire_n so_o i_o will_v dispute_v it_o with_o you_o upon_o your_o own_o principle_n 4._o and_o first_o for_o what_o concern_v the_o term_n of_o the_o question_n they_o be_v exact_o take_v from_o your_o own_o ward_n you_o tell_v we_o in_o your_o vindication_n that_o all_o you_o say_v be_v 30._o vindic._n p._n 30._o that_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n and_o here_o in_o your_o reply_n that_o the_o difference_n between_o we_o be_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o pray_v to_o they_o 11_o reply_v p._n 11_o in_o which_o yet_o you_o seem_v to_o fall_v a_o little_a below_o even_o the_o bishop_n of_o meaux_n himself_o who_o tell_v we_o that_o your_o church_n teach_v that_o it_o be_v profitable_a at_o least_o to_o pray_v to_o they_o 5._o exposit_n sect._n iu._n p._n 5._o but_o however_o such_o be_v our_o security_n according_a to_o both_o of_o you_o that_o neither_o you_o nor_o he_o care_v to_o say_v it_o be_v our_o duty_n so_o to_o do_v or_o that_o we_o run_v any_o danger_n in_o the_o neglect_n of_o it_o whatever_o therefore_o be_v the_o issue_n of_o this_o dispute_n it_o be_v whole_o your_o concern_v to_o look_v to_o it_o thus_o much_o we_o be_v agree_v in_o that_o there_o be_v no_o sin_n in_o our_o omission_n for_o where_o there_o be_v no_o law_n there_o be_v no_o transgression_n 5._o but_o i_o will_v now_o presume_v to_o go_v far_o and_o since_o you_o dare_v not_o say_v that_o such_o a_o invocation_n be_v necessary_a i_o will_v undertake_v to_o affirm_v that_o neither_o be_v it_o profitable_a nor_o indeed_o lawful_a but_o utter_o forbid_v and_o for_o proof_n of_o this_o i_o shall_v lay_v down_o no_o other_o foundation_n than_o what_o you_o have_v yourself_o establish_v viz._n that_o religious_a honour_n or_o worship_n may_v be_v take_v in_o a_o double_a sense_n 27._o see_v vidicat_fw-la p._n 27._o first_o strictly_n and_o so_o be_v due_a only_a to_o god_n second_o more_o large_o and_o so_o may_v be_v pay_v to_o creature_n and_o what_o you_o mean_v by_o these_o term_n you_o thus_o more_o full_o express_v 29._o ibid._n p._n 28_o 29._o that_o by_o religious_a honour_n in_o this_o latter_a sense_n and_o as_o you_o apply_v it_o to_o the_o saint_n you_o understand_v only_o a_o honour_n so_o call_v by_o a_o extrinsical_a denomination_n from_o the_o cause_n and_o motive_n but_o not_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o act_n itself_o that_o be_v such_o a_o honour_n as_o may_v be_v in_o itself_o civil_a and_o be_v only_o call_v religious_a because_o it_o be_v do_v for_o god_n sake_n and_o in_o obedience_n to_o god_n command_n but_o for_o a_o strict_a and_o proper_a religious_a worship_n such_o as_o be_v in_o its_o own_o nature_n so_o this_o you_o confess_v with_o we_o to_o be_v due_a to_o god_n only_a from_o whence_o i_o conclude_v that_o to_o give_v such_o a_o worship_n to_o any_o creature_n must_v be_v to_o pay_v that_o service_n to_o the_o creature_n which_o be_v due_a only_a to_o the_o creator_n and_o that_o be_v in_o our_o sense_n to_o commit_v idolatry_n 6._o and_o now_o from_o this_o principle_n which_o you_o have_v yourself_o lay_v down_o 28._o vindic._n p._n 28._o and_o which_o you_o think_v will_v be_v alone_o sufficient_a to_o answer_v all_o objection_n bring_v against_o your_o doctrine_n i_o take_v leave_n to_o infer_v that_o if_o even_o such_o a_o invocation_n as_o you_o confess_v you_o pay_v to_o the_o saint_n be_v strict_o a_o religious_a honour_n in_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o the_o act_n itself_o and_o not_o bare_o by_o a_o extrinsecal_n denomination_n from_o the_o cause_n and_o motive_n of_o it_o it_o will_v then_o remain_v that_o you_o be_v guilty_a in_o this_o service_n of_o give_v that_o worship_n to_o the_o saint_n which_o be_v due_a only_a to_o god_n and_o be_v by_o consequence_n therein_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n and_o this_o i_o shall_v show_v i._o from_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o the_o act_n itself_o ii_o from_o the_o circumstance_n of_o it_o i._o that_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o the_o act_n itself_o of_o invocate_a the_o saint_n do_v show_v that_o it_o be_v strict_o and_o proper_o a_o religious_a worship_n 7._o this_o be_v what_o i_o know_v mounseur_fw-fr de_fw-fr meaux_n deny_v he_o tell_v we_o that_o when_o you_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n iu._n expos_fw-la artic._n iu._n you_o do_v it_o in_o the_o same_o spirit_n of_o charity_n and_o according_a to_o the_o same_o order_n of_o brotherly_a society_n which_o move_v we_o to_o demand_v assistance_n of_o our_o brethren_n live_v upon_o earth_n thus_o he_o smooth_v your_o invocation_n of_o saint_n depart_v to_o make_v it_o lie_v even_o with_o our_o desire_n of_o one_o another_o prayer_n but_o do_v he_o in_o good_a earnest_n believe_v that_o nothing_o but_o a_o spirit_n of_o charity_n and_o the_o order_n of_o brotherly_a society_n be_v to_o be_v discern_v in_o the_o act_n of_o call_v upon_o depart_a saint_n to_o pray_v for_o we_o we_o have_v indeed_o that_o charity_n for_o they_o as_o to_o believe_v that_o they_o have_v charity_n for_o we_o and_o though_o they_o be_v high_o advance_v above_o we_o we_o yet_o take_v they_o to_o be_v our_o brethren_n but_o be_v this_o all_o that_o be_v imply_v in_o the_o act_n of_o call_v upon_o they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v but_o believe_v that_o mounseur_fw-fr de_fw-fr meaux_n himself_o be_v sensible_a of_o a_o vast_a difference_n in_o the_o case_n as_o appear_v by_o his_o endeavour_v to_o blind_v it_o afterward_o and_o i_o shall_v now_o offer_v some_o reason_n that_o may_v perhaps_o convince_v other_o as_o they_o have_v full_o satisfy_v myself_o about_o it_o 8._o for_o 1._o if_o the_o nature_n of_o that_o act_n of_o invoke_v the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o of_o desire_v my_o christian_a brother_n to_o pray_v for_o i_o upon_o earth_n then_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n this_o be_v also_o of_o the_o same_o nature_n with_o that_o and_o by_o consequence_n i_o may_v as_o well_o fall_v down_o upon_o my_o knee_n here_o in_o london_n and_o desire_v my_o christian_a brother_n who_o be_v now_o it_o may_v be_v in_o japan_n or_o somewhere_o in_o the_o east_n indies_n or_o perhaps_o on_o his_o return_n homeward_o to_o pray_v for_o i_o as_o do_v the_o like_a to_o s._n peter_n or_o s._n paul_n who_o for_o any_o thing_n i_o can_v tell_v be_v at_o a_o vast_o great_a distance_n from_o i_o than_o my_o friend_n upon_o earth_n be_v but_o if_o there_o be_v something_o more_o than_o a_o spirit_n of_o charity_n or_o a_o acknowledgement_n of_o brotherhood_n in_o call_v upon_o my_o live_a friend_n who_o be_v out_o of_o all_o natural_a distance_n of_o hear_v there_o be_v also_o something_o more_o than_o this_o in_o call_v upon_o the_o dead_a who_o it_o may_v be_v be_v a_o thousand_o time_n far_o from_o i_o than_o the_o live_n can_v be_v from_o one_o another_o will_v not_o such_o a_o invocation_n of_o my_o friend_n think_v you_o suppose_v he_o to_o be_v more_o than_o a_o brother_n or_o a_o man_n will_v not_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o act_n ascribe_v to_o he_o not_o only_o the_o praise_n of_o charity_n but_o likewise_o the_o power_n of_o hear_v and_o know_v all_o that_o be_v say_v upon_o earth_n at_o any_o distance_n whatsoever_o i_o grant_v that_o if_o this_o be_v indeed_o no_o more_o than_o according_a to_o the_o order_n
apprehension_n of_o his_o be_v every_o where_o present_a and_o though_o much_o of_o it_o be_v due_a to_o the_o natural_a impression_n which_o god_n have_v leave_v of_o himself_o in_o our_o soul_n yet_o the_o reflection_n we_o make_v upon_o it_o be_v chief_o owe_v to_o the_o frequent_a address_n we_o make_v every_o where_o public_o and_o private_o to_o the_o invisible_a be_v the_o lord_n of_o all_o of_o who_o we_o have_v some_o knowledge_n by_o nature_n and_o more_o by_o christian_a instruction_n but_o when_o prayer_n be_v make_v to_o other_o invisible_a being_n as_n general_o as_o to_o god_n how_o can_v it_o be_v otherwise_o but_o that_o the_o people_n shall_v conceive_v they_o to_o be_v as_o omnipresent_v as_o god_n himself_o be_v especial_o if_o it_o be_v consider_v that_o when_o their_o educate_v and_o philosophical_a man_n come_v to_o vindicate_v their_o practice_n and_o doctrine_n from_o this_o imputation_n they_o can_v so_o much_o as_o speak_v sense_n about_o it_o but_o with_o 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dei_fw-la lib._n viij_o cap._n 27._o that_o he_o find_v little_a difference_n in_o the_o people_n opinion_n of_o their_o saint_n in_o many_o thing_n from_o what_o the_o heathen_n have_v of_o their_o god_n and_o that_o number_n in_o your_o church_n worship_v they_o no_o otherwise_o than_o god._n now_o this_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n can_v not_o but_o know_v and_o it_o then_o lay_v before_o they_o to_o redress_v it_o if_o therefore_o those_o father_n have_v think_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o form_n of_o invocation_n allowable_a to_o the_o saint_n than_o as_o you_o now_o pretend_v to_o pray_v to_o they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o be_v it_o to_o be_v imagine_v that_o at_o such_o a_o juncture_n as_o this_o they_o will_v have_v take_v no_o care_n about_o a_o thing_n so_o just_o scandalous_a not_o only_o to_o the_o protestant_n who_o they_o desire_v to_o reduce_v but_o even_o to_o many_o of_o their_o own_o communion_n how_o easy_a have_v it_o be_v for_o they_o to_o say_v that_o to_o 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