alwayes but because of the people that stande by I said it that they may beleeue that thou hast sent me Moreouer when he rode vnto the Temple with a great assemblie of people about him that certaine Grecians desired to see him anon after Iohn 12. ver 27. he prayed sayth Now is my soule troubled and what shall I say Father saue me from this houre but therefore came I vnto this houre Father glorifie thy name Yea the whole 17. Chapter following what is it else but that seuerall and most singuler prayer that Christe maketh vnto his father in the assemblie of his Disciples partely for himselfe though most especially for them and all his elected Last of all his seuerall prayer euen on the crosse not only praying for his enemies Father forgiue theÌ„ they knowe not what they doe Luke 23.34 but also when he cried with a loud voyce saying Eli Eli Lama sabachthani that is my God my God why had thou forsaken me Mat. 27.46 and Luke 23.46 when also he cryed with a loud voice and sayde Father into thy handes I commende my spirit And as Stephen did consummate his Martyrdom imitating his Master Christ with the like seuerall prayer so the Apostles frequented the Temple the synagogues and other places where the people were assembled to make these their seuerall publike prayers and to heare the law read taking often occasion thereby to preach the gospell vnto them And by S. Paules often protestations of making his prayers Rom. 1. ver 9. God is my witnesse whom I serue in spirite in the Gospell of his sonne that without ceasing I make mention of you alwayes in my prayers c. and to the Phil. cap. 1.3 I thanke my God hauing you in perfecte memorye alwayes in my prayers for all you praying with gladnesse and to the Colloss cap. 1. ver 3. We giue thankes to God euen the father of our L. Iesus Christ alwayes praying for you and to the Thess. 1. Epist. cap. 1. ver 2. We giue God thankes alwayes for you making mention â—f you in our prayers without ceasing c. Now S. Paul frequenting wheresoeuer he came the publike assemblies of the faithfull it argueth that eyther in all places he made some solemne mention of all these seuerall Churches which hath no likelihoode or else that in those publike assemblies of publike prayers he made some secrete and seuerall prayers in his mind or memorie for them Eusebius out of Clements sermons recordeth of Iames the brother of the Lorde that he gaue himselfe to such continuall prayer in the Temple that his knees with kneeling grew to be as harde as Camels knees Eccl. Hist. Lib. 2. cap. 23. which were it true it plainely argueth that for all the often and publike assemblies there made he ceased not as before we hearde of the holy widdowe Anna to continue often his seuerall prayers in the publike assemblies All which premisses well considered wee can not iustlie call it confusion and vncomelinesse if seuerall prayers bee nowe and then made of some though not of euerie man in the time and place of the publike assemblies If our Brethren hadde sayde that they may not bee made at or during the time of vttering the publique prayers by all those that may well heare them this saying had béene allowable And yet to make no short and earnest secrete and seuerall prayers petitions or wishes of the heart or thankes giuing to God at all while pawses fall out betwéene the making open confessions the powring foorth publike prayers the reading of the Psalmes the hearing of the Lessons the rendring of thankes and prayses the marking of the sermons and the celebrating of the sacramentes that betwéene these distincte actions the people may make no seuerall prayers nor any priuate motions of their heartes secretely to God all onely because of the publike assemblie then present were to binde the peoples conscience too too strictly without any prohibition of the Lorde yea rather hauing all these examples as a warrant in such cases to the contrarie where neither the publike prayers nor the publike hearing of the worde nor the publike assemblies nor any mans seuerall or publike edification is disturbed any wayes or hindred These thrée points being thus farre forth and not otherwise to be graunted vnto our Brethren let vs now procéede to the other matters that they finde fault withall Wherin say they there is great abuse in our Churches For as though it were not inough to keepe out preaching by long prescribed formes of prayers these prayers are so pronounced by the Minister that a great number and some not of the worst disposed people thinke it pertayneth not to them to giue eare or consent of minde vnto them Wee speake not heere of such insensible readers whose voyce eyther can not be heard or else can not be vnderstoode whereof there be great numbers nor of the vnfitte place prescribed for the Ministers standing at prayers in the east ende of the house when the simple people shall stand often times 40. or 50. yeardes off in the west ende or of the confusion of voyces whilest all speake at once besides screenes of Roode loftes Organ loftes Idoll cages otherwise called Chauntrie chappelles and high pewes betweene them Which although they doe manifestly hinder edification yet may they not be remoued in many places for defacing the beautie of the materiall houses whereas S. Paule so much esteemeth the building of Gods spirituall house that he commaundeth the glorious gifts of the holy Ghost to cease in the congregation when they doe not help to edification But we speake of this that a great multitude thinke they haue well serued God if they haue beene present at coÌ„mon prayers or any part of them as they were woont to thinke in Poperie although they be neuer so vainely occupied in the Church some in walking some in talking in gathering of money not onely for the poore but for other contributions c. And they that thinke they do best are occupied in their priuate prayers or in reading of bookes while their minister pronounceth publike prayers Our Brethren doe here sharpely chalenge the Churche of Englande for many great abuses by reason of our diuine seruice and publ prayers Howbeit thankes be to God first and in generall for all these great abuses here reckoned vp we may safely affirme that there is no not one of them which can iustly and directly be ascribed to the order in the communion booke for the forme of publik prayer prescribed but may wel inough be helped and redressed both the Eccl. state of gouernement and the appointed order of the diuine seruice remaining still in force anie thing here founde fault with to the contrarie notwithstanding They pretende first that we keepe out preaching by long prescribed formes of prayer For the auowing of prescribing formes of prayer
this house was layde before their eyes wept with lowde voyce And many shoâ—ted lowde for ioy so that the people coulde not discerne the sounde of the shout for ioy from the noyse of the weeping of the people Fâ—r the people sâ—owted â—ith a lowde cry and the noyse was heard farre off Here indeede was some confusion of voices because some of them shouted and some wept and some of them praised to GOD and some sang his praises and some blewe the Trumpettes and yet GOD accepted this confusion as a moste sweete conceite and harmonye In the tenth Chapter after the Prayer of Esdras in the name of himselfe and of al thâ— people verse 1. VVhiles Esdras prayed thus and confessed him-selfe weeping anâ— falling downe before the House of GOD there assembled vnto him of Israell a very â—reat congregation of Men and VVomen and childâ—en for the people wept with a great lamentation Then Shecaniah the sonne of Iehiel one of the sonnes of Elam aunswered and said to Esdras we haue trespassed against God c. Here one speaketh in the name of all the people but in the next assemblie it followeth after VVhen Esdras had exhorted the people al the Congregation aunswered Uerse 12. and said with a lowde voyce So wil we do accordinge so thy VVordes vnto vs but thee People are manye and it is raynye weather and wee are not able to stande vvithoute neyther it is the vvoorke of one Daye or two for wee are many that haue greatly offended in this thing Let our rulers therefore c. And in the 8. Chapter of Nehemias he saith verse 1. And all the people assembled themselues together in the streete that was before the Water gate and they spake vnto Esdras the scribe that hee shoulde bring the booke of the lâ—we of Moses which the Lorde had commaunded to Israel And Esdras the prieste brought the lawe before the congregation â—â—th of men and Women and of all that coulde heare and vnderstande it in the first day of the seuenth month And hee red therein in the streete that was before the water-gate from the morning vntill the Midday before men and women and them that vnderstoode it and the cares of all the people hearkened vnto the booke of the lawe And Esdras the scribe stoode vpon a pulpit of wood which he had made for the preaching Here againe is the plaine reading of the Scripture so that the people may vnderstand it called Preaching And Esdras opened the booke before all the people for he was aboue al the people and when hee opened it al the people stood vp and Esdras praysed the Lord the great God And all the people aunswered Amen Amen with lifting vp their handes and they bowed themselues and worshipped the Lord with thâ—ir faces toward the ground And here is euen that our bre speake of where the minister praiseth God which is a part of praier and the people hearken and aunswere Amen But yet immediately it followeth that this reading was not done all by one but a great many Leuites are reckoned vp which caused the people to vnderstande the Lawe and they reade in the booke of the Lawe of God distinctly and gaue the sence and caused them to vnderstande the reading And also the notable prayer that followeth in the next Chapter was pronounced vppon staires not by one but by eight or nine of the Leuites pronouncing the same before the people Thus wee see at large in all these ages the manner of the Church of God in their coÌ„gregations and publike Praiers both for the Leuites parts and for the peoples howe they ioined their voices together not onely in saying Amen but in their petitions Confessions and thanks-giuinges And this was counted no disorder nor confusion but vsed of all Godlie men and alwaies acceptable vnto God And so as wee may further perceiue by the Apocrypha and other histories of their publike praiers thus practised and continued till Christes comming Neither was this doone so much in respect of the ceremoniall as of the morall Lawe of God among them But to confirme all this with the practise approoued of Christe in the Newe testament reade we not Luke 2. verse 13. Euen presently after the birth of our Sauiour Christ that when one â—ngel of the Lorde had declared vnto the Shepheardes the ioyful tydings of his birth And straight wayes sayth Luke There was with the Angell a multitude of heauenly souldiers praâ—sing GOD and saying Glorye bee to GOD on high and in earth peace and towardes men good will and was heere also confusion and disorder in the multitude of the voices of the Angels that saide these things And likewise when Iesus a little before his death came riding to Ierusalem Mat. 21. ver 9. c The people that went before and they also that followed cryed saying Hosana the sonne of Dauid blessed be hee that commeth in the name of the Lord. Hosanna thou which art in the highest And when he was come to Ierusalem al the Citie was mooued saying who is this and the people saide this is Iesus the Prophet of Nazareth in Galily True it is that there were some that thought this a disorder and confused noise For it followeth vers 15 c. But when the cheefe priests and scribes sawe the maruels that he did and the children crying in the Temple and saying Hosanna the sonne of Dauid they disdained and saide to him hearest thou what these say and Iesus saide vnto them yea did yee neuer reade by the mouth of babes and sucklinges thou haste made perfect thy praise Doth Christe heere forbid them to cry out these publike praiers as a confusion and disorder And what was the manner of the Apostles praiers concerning this point Act. 1.14 Luke saith They all continued with one accord in praier and supplication with the Women and Marie the mother of Iesus and with his brethren In-déede here is not mentioned that all their voices were ioined together but one accord which rather signifieth the consent of their hearts then the consent of their voices But very well doth Caluine note hereon saying So farre as respecteth the concorde of their mindes it is opposed to the dispearsing of them which the feare had brought Howbeit withall generallie we may gather hereupon how necessarie it is in praying Which Christ commaÌ„deth euery one to pray for the whole body and in common as though it were in the person of all Our father Giue vs. c. Mat. 6.9 Whence coÌ„meth this vnitie of the tongs but of one spirite Wherefore Paul Rom. 15.6 When hee would deliuer to the Iewes Gentiles a rule of praying well remoueth far off all dissembling That we might glorify God sayth hee with one mouth And verilie that God may of vs be called vpon a Father it behoueth vs to be brethren to consent brethen-like But to shew this more plaine Luke declareth Act. 4.23 24. How that
after Peter Iohn assoone as they were let go came to their fellows shewed al that the high priests elders had saide vnto them when they heard it they lift vp their voices to God with one accord said O Lord c. And though their praiers be not also described Act. 12. 5. When Peter was kept in prison yet in that he saith But earnest prayer was made of the Church to God for him wee may easily coniecture that it was not made onely with their assent but with all their voices in their so earnest praier for him And although the visions in the Reuelation that Saint Iohn sawe and heard bee referred to further mysteries yet the analogy that is proportionable betweene the signes of thinges and the thinges them-selues manifestly prooueth that the multitude of voices ioyned together in publique prayers was not then either of God or man accounted a disorder or confusion in the Churche Apocal. 4. verse 8. c. And he foure Beastes had echâ— one of them sixe wings about him and they were ful of eyes within and they ceased not day nor night saying Holy Holy Holy Lorde God almighty which was and which is and which is to come And when those beastes gaue glory and honour and thankes to him that sate on the throne and worshipped him that liueth for euer euer the 24. elders fel downe bâ—fore him that satte on the throne worshipped him that liueth for euermore cast their crowns before the throne saying thou art worthy O lorde to receiue glory and honour and power for thou haste created all thinges and for thy willes sake they are and haue beene created And in the next Chapter verse 8. The foure and twenty Elders fel downe before the lambe hauing euery one Harpes and golden Viols full of Odors which are the prayers of Saintes and sung a newe song saying Thou art worthy c. And also verse 11. Then I behelde and I hearde the voyce of many Angelles round about the Throne and about the Beastes and the elders and there were thousande thousandes saying with alowde voyce VVorthie is the lambe that was killed to receiue power and riches and wisedome strength and honour and glory and prayse and all the creatures which are in Heauen and vnder the earth and in the Sea and all that are in them heard I saying praise â—nd honour and glory and power bee vnto him that sitteth vpon the Throne aâ—d vnto the lambe for euermore And the foure Beastes sayde Amen c. The Reuelation hath many moe of these visions All which though they haue a misticall vnderstanding yet if those mysteries had beene figured by thinges disordered and confused it had both beene a discredite to the entendement of them neither coulde Saint Iohn haue well perceiued and vnderstood them But that this was the practise of the primitiue and auncient Church succéeding it may appeare by Iustine in the foresaide Apologie But howe we haue dedicated our selues to God saith hee beeing renewed by Christe wee will nowe declare least wee might seeme to dissemble any thing malitiously So many as being perswaded do beleeue these things to be true that we do teach and do promise to liue after the same manner before all things they learne with prayers and fastinges to aske of God forgiuenesse of their fore-passed sinnes we ioining together with them the prayers and the fastings So that all these that were conuerted from idolatry and were to be baptized with the Ministers that did baptise them ioined as their fastings so their prayers altogether and then within a little after followeth that which wee haue alreadye cited of their publike prayers when they are brought to the assembly of the faithfull to ioine also with them in the Communion After which publique prayers when they had saluted one another with a mutual kisse and that the chiefest of the brethren was with his prayers and thankes-giuing consecrating to God the mysteries of the Lordes supper after the prayers sayth he and the Eucharist or thankesgiuing all the company singetâ— Amen Here is againe the cheefe Elders prayers thanksgiuing by him selfe and all the companies Amen But as he declareth afterward before these prayers and thanks-giuings that this cheefe person maketh alone which is the consecration of the breade and Wine to the which the people singeth â—men When the Exhortation to prepare them-selues to come worthily to this Table was finished After this saith he we arise all of vs together and offer our prayers which done the breade wine c. as is aforesaide is brought forth So that here are some prayers made of all the people together with the Minister and some prayers only made by the mouth of the Minister in the name of the whole Church as ourâ— brethren say and the whole Church ioyning in heart with the People in the same prayers and praying with him in silence in the ende they gaue their consent thereto by aunswering Amen Cyprian Ser. 6. De Orat. Dominica sayth We say not My father which art in heauen neither Giue to me this day my bread neither doth euery one desire that sins shold be only forgiueÌ„ to him or desireth for him self alone that he shold not be led into tentation shold be deliuered from euil It is a publike coÌ„mon prayer vnto vs. And when we pray we pray not for one but for all people because we being the whole people are one thing The God of all peace and master of concorde that taught vnitie woulde thus haue one to pray for all Euen as hee him selfe did beare all in one This Lawe did the three Children keepe beeing enclosed in the furnace of fire Agreeing in prayer and concording in consent of spirite Which thing the fayth of the diuine scripture declareth and when it teacheth howe suche praied it giueth an example which wee in prayers ought to followe that wee might bee such as they were Then sayth the scripture they there did sing an hymne as it were with one mouth and did blesse the Lorde They spake as it were with one mouth and Christ had not yet taught them to praye and therefore to them that prayed their speech was able to obtaine and effectuall because the quiet and simple and spirituall praier was acceptable to the Lord. Thus sayth Cyprian of the prayers wherin all the people ioyned their voyces publikely together and that the Apostle followed this manner he citeth Acts 1. as is aforesayd So that this praier with one mouth in the name of all was not so that one only spake it the other only gaue the Amen and consent thereto but they all spake it with such a concorde as though it had beene spoken with one mouth which was spoken with the mouth of euerie one of them Euen as euerie one saith the Lords praier in the name of al and not onâ— alone saith it for them all And yet
thing bee reuealed to another that sitteth by let the first hold his peace For sayth Caluine place and liberty while the matter requires it is left vnto all so that no man rush in out of season rather fauouring him-selfe than seruing the necessity But this modesty he requireth of all that euery one giue place to another bringing foorth any better matter and in the next vers For yee may all prophecy one by one that all may learne and receiue consolation First when he sayth all saith Caluine hee comprehendeth not the vniuersall number of the faythfull but only those that were instructed with a faculty Then he signifieth that the turns of them al were equall but as it shoulde bee for the profite of the people euery one of them either oftener or seldomer to come foorth to speake as though hee shoulde say there is none shall lye idly perpetually but the oportunity of speaking shall offer it selfe nowe to these and nowe to those He addeth that all may learne VVhich though it appertaine to the vulgar people notwithstanding it agreeth to the prophets and properly these Paule pointeth out for no man shall at any time be a good teacher that shall not yeelde himselfe to be taught and is alwayes ready to learn c. By all which it is moste apparant that these prophecyinges whosoeuer were the speakers then were not spoken by them in the person and name of all the Congregation nor yet of all those that had the gift thereof but in the person of God whose spirite spake in them This interpretation therefore of Beza cleane ouerthroweth all S Pauls whole treatise of these gifts So that the reuerence reserued of so worthye a man and of other with with him this in my opinion is but a méere euasion so farre it is off from any shewe of a right interpretation of that sentence euerye man praying or prophecying with his heade couered dishonoureth his head And euery woman c. Neither are his reasons as me thinkes of greater weight than the deuise of this interpretation His first reason is this The reasons that the Apostle bringeth are common to all the men that are conuersant in the assembly of the Church and also I graunt of those that are out of the assembly of the Church but for all that the question propounded and the conclusion the head not couered do declare those reasons to be referred to the circumstaunce of the time and place wherein the church assembleth What can bee gathered héereupon but that the Question and conclusion of vncouering the heade doe restrayne his reasons to those that bée in the Churches assembly which otherwise would stretch further and what conclusion is this that this worde praying or prophecying eyther in man or woman praying or prophecying must néedes bée vnderstoode for the action of one in the name and person of the whole assemblye Nay rather howe doth not this reason if it bée any reason ouerthrowe Bezaes interpretation For sithe the Question propounded and the conclusion is of the beeing bare-headed If the Ministers prophecying bee the prophecying of all the men there assembled then must all the men that be there assembled be bareheaded too But this was not the Apostles meaning nor it was not then nor euer in custome that all the men that heare the preacher or prophecier should also be bareheaded Therfore this is not the true interpretation of Paules meaning that his preaching or prophecying is al their preaching or prophecying and that they vsed no other but by his mouth His second reason is this Moreouer saith Beza If ye restore it to the one person of him that prayeth or prophecieth the mēmber of the sentēce opposite cōcerning the womā wil not agree therto And why will not that next sentence concerning the Woman agree to this sense that some one Woman also might prophesy in the assembly forsoothe saith hee Sith that the Apostle permitteth not a Woman to speake in the Church that is in the common assembly What is this else but petitio principij to take that as a clear case to be beforehand granted that all the Question depends vpon howe these words of the Apostle should be vnderstoode whether as a simple debarre in all cases or as but from an ordinary function of speaking in the Church Neither is the Womans couering of her head for that it is common to other women in the church so well as to her that preacheth or prophecieth any reason that she may no more speake than they doe for that is not the reason that she speaketh at all But she speaking vpon some other occasion she is bound much more to keepe that comelinesse that other Women in the Church are bound vnto and so much more bounde than men are in as much as it is free for the men in the Church assembled and not speaking to be either couered or not couered with comelinesse ynough which is not so in women though not speaking But by what warrant doth Beza make these to be membra opposita the Man and the woman indeede here is an opposition made of Paule in the couering or vncouering of their heades But he neither makes any opposition in the persons and much lesse but al resemblāce nay rather one and the same action in them both for the praying and for the prophesying For if the vniuersal particle taketh away the difference of orders and of age in the respect of prayer and prophecying It lesse considereth the person or the sexe but the matter prayed or prophecied and the newe creature in Christe Iesus or the Spirite of God that speaketh in them But let be the opposition in the Pastors or in the praying or prophecying Goe to then saith hee but if the woman pray not publikely nor prophecy in her own person then contrariorum eadem est ratio The prayer and prophecying of the man is not in his owne person But sée now how this reason returned home againe doth beate his Maister The opposition saith he is in the persons of the man of the woman and in the praying or prophesying of them Is it so Go to then say I but if the man pray or prophecy publikly not by the mouth of another but by his owne mouth as I haue I trust so fullye and at large proued and if that will not satisfie I shall God willing being called thereto prooue it better But contrariorum eadem est ratio of contraries there is one and the same order or reason therefore the prayer and prophesying of a woman héere mencioned and opposed to man◠is after th◠same manner and order vttered not by the mouth of another but by her owne mouth Yea if it were not vttered her prayer and her prophesying as well by her mouth as the man by his mouth but a thirde person shoulde vtter it for them both then howe must that person representing both the person of
learned discourse following And what is it that they heere require of them not to cast it awaie Whereof meane they this Of the state of the gouernement established that it should not be cast awaie And good reason too Or do they meane it of the conference or of the obiecting the three obiections or of their answer But when they sâ—all tell vs plainer their owne meaning then may we better tell them what is our answer This in the meane season is all that they answer héere in generall to these obiections which doone they procéed to the particulers of them Wherefore for the first let vs graunt the great difference â—hich they make of yeares and learning yet the speech of Elihu giueth them sufficient aunswere that this vnderstanding is not tied to such outward respects but to the reuelation of Gods spirite and to accept in such cases the persons of men or to giue titles is but to prouoke God to destroy vs. Yea let the memorable examples of Ezechias and the Priestes of the Apostles in their counsels of Paule in his Epistles and euen of Peter in yeelding to the challenge of some not so well instructed moue them who not only not refused the Leuites and elders but accepted the people in some manner to be heard to speake and to authorise their determinations and writings At least let their own opinion that in interpreting the scriptures and deliuery of doctrine wee are equall with them perswade them not to refuse those who if they coulde straine their consciences to subscribe to the Archbishops articles they would gladly receaue them to be the Embassadours of Iesus Christ. The first obiection consisted of thrée pointes that our brethren werâ— but fewe young vnlearned to be accounted comparable to the Archbishops and Bishops To this they say wherfore for the first let vs graunt the great difference they make of yeeres and learning This is wel done of our brethren if they meane as they say that they would yeeld to the Archbishops and Bishops in these two things and for the moste parte of these our brethren they yéeld but in the thinges that otherwise are most apparant Yet say they the speech of Elihu giueth them sufficient aunswere that this vnderstanding is not tied to such outward respects but to the reuelation of Gods spirite I graunt the speech of Elihu giueth sufficient aunswere for the respect of yeares to all them that relie thereon But our Arch-bishops nor Bish. neither wee do measure the truth of the matter by the age of the men Neither we ascribe it to the title of age or dignity but acknowledge that which Elihu saith in the same chapter verse 9. Great men are not alwaies wise neither doth the aged alwaies vnderstand iudgement and yet they all the world doth knowe that wisdome in youth is but the séeldomer example as Elihu said before ver 6. I am young in yeares and yee are auncient and therefore I doubted and was afraide to shewe you my opinion For I saide the dayes shall speak and the multitude of yeares shall teach wisdom And in manie places the young are willed to reuerence their auncients and to learne wisdome of them so that they be wise and reuerend persons Notwithstanding if anie younger can make demonstration of the reuelation of Gods spirite not reuealed vnto the elder therin we confesse both Archbishops and bishops and all are to hearken and yeelde vnto those yoÌ„ger Young Samuel is to be preferred before old Helie and al the Priestes and young Daniel before all the elders of Israel and héere-of Christe also gaue example euen in his childhood And S. Paule gaue this precept that none should despise Timothy for his youth and yet was Timothy an elder in his office yea an Archbishop as God willing shal be sufficiently shewed in the debating of this learned discourse But as our Archbishops Bishops must not and I hope do not reiecte any of our brethren for their younger yeres so must these our youÌ„ger brethreÌ„ take no lesse if not much more héede that to supply their defect in yeres they presume not on pretext of Elihu to father any of their owne or other neuer so excellent mens deuises on the reuelation of Gods spirit except they can make apparant proofe thereof For so both they in preteÌ„ding it and we in beleeuing it might runne into a great daunger as did many auncient Heritikes and as do the common aduersaries to vs both besides the Anabaptistes which when they can not proue their assertions by cleare and inuincible testimonies of the Scripture they alwayes runne to this that they haue it by reuelation of Gods spirit But though our Arch-bishops and Bish. vawnt not of any speciall reuelation of Gods spirit yet I trust that in this matter as S. Paule said of his owne iudgement 1. Cor 7.40 And I think also thâ—t I haue the spirit of God so they with good testimony of conscience may say also that although all haue not like measure yet they are not destitute of Gods holy spirit Which howe farre hee hath warranted vnto them in his word for the grounde of their function I referre to the examining of this learned discourse The memorable examples that our brethren here alleage releiue theÌ„ nothing Yea let the memorable examples say they of Ezechias and the Priests of the Apostles in their counsels of Paul in his Epistles and euen of Peter in yeelding to the chalenge of some not so well instructed moue them who not onely refused the Leuites and Elders but accepted the people in some manner to speake and to authorize their determinations and writinges For proofe hereof in the example of Ezechias theâ— quote 2. Chro. 30.1.5.23 vers In the 1. verse sayth the text And Ezechias sent to all Israell and Iudah and also wrote letters to Ephraim and Manasseh that they should come to the house of the Lorde at Ierusalem to keepe the passeouer vnto the L. God of Israel What is here any thing for proofe of any Priestes Leuites or pastorall Elders in office but younger in yeares or in learning inferiour to haue any controuersies reuealed by the spirite of God vnto them that were not reuealed vnto the Bishops Priests and Leuites which in learning and age were their auncientes For if they bring not their examples to this point they alledge them amisse for instances to answere the two former parts of the first obiection for the difference of yeares and learning betwéene our brethren on the one partie and the Archb. and Bishops on the other Likewise in the 5. verse And they decreed to make a proclamation through out all Israell from Beer-sheba euen to Dan thâ—t they should come and keepâ— the passeouer vnto the L. God of Israell at Ierusalem for they had not done it â— great time as it is written Likewise the 23. And the whole assembly tooke Counsell to keepe it otheâ— seuen
héere they do in this learned discourse For this is both the alteration the endangering if not the ouerthrow at leastwise the making both the Church and common-wealth worse than they are But worse or better how do not their wordes implie an alteration For when they pretends the vrging only of the perfection of the Church and further good of the common-wealth what meane they else but that the Church is in an vnperfect estate that the common-wealth also is not in so good an estate as they vrge to bring it vnto And how is not this a plaine vrging of the alteration both of the Church and also of the common-wealth These wordes therefore are either cōtradictory to thē-selues or else they would they would not Or they would they dare not for feare or shame plainly vtter what they vrge because they touch matters of moment indeede as they say euen the alteration of the estate matters too highe both for them and for vs to meddle withall namelie to alter which perteynet◠to persons of estate But now how would this alteration that indéede is vrged become the perfectiō of the churches estate further good of the common-wealth Forsooth say they whilest by this meanes amongst many other things of great importance the ignorant ministery by it Popery by Popery rebellion should be auoyded which by the other are moste manifestlye bredde and nourished These purposes I confesse are very good that Ignorance in the Ministery Popery rebellion may be auoided so that the auoiding of these things be done by good and lawfull meanes also But what is this that is héere said which by the other are most manifestly bred nourished Do they meane that the ignorant ministerie Popery and Rebellion are most manifestly bred and nourished by the estate of the Church of Eng and the gouernment thereof established What a most manifest vntrue and vncharitable challenge of our Churches common-wealths estate is this Yea saue that for my part I hope better o◠our brethren some and those good Protestants would not stick to say that this challenge wer now not onely not much vn-like the Papists but that it smelt somewhat strongly of breding norishing the third of these euils And other would at least say it were a false accusation of their poore brethren a foule slāder of the estate of the Church and gouernment established But I hope they wil construe their words to some gentler meaning sith it is most manifest to the contrarie that the estate of the church of England gouernement established do neither most manifestly or manifestly or any whit at all wittingly or directly breede or nourish any of these thrée euils eyther Ignorance in the ministery or Popery or Reblelion in any persons but punish thē in whomsoeuer they manifestlie appeare Albeit for the ignorant ministerie not perhaps in such manner of punishment as our brethrē would haue thē punished Yea our brethrens former confessiō it selfe doth not a little discharge the estate of the Church gouernmēt established frō these crimes in saying that Our true and holy faith hath in diuerse assemblies abroad at home bene disputed resolued now publikly maintayned Which cannot be taken for their doing onely but muche more for ours by farre odds then theirs For so much as we are the publike maintainers thereof not they whose gouernment hath yet no publike maintenance amongst vs. Yea they refuse the publik ministery of the word sacraments And yet if they had that alteration of the estate of the Church and common-wealth whose perfection and furder good they pretend whether it would come to such perfection or such further good as to auoide these thrée euils of an ignorant ministery of Popery of Rebellion or no and not rather breede and nourish them at least wise if not directly yet by occasion more then they now are bred nourished or whether it would be the best most manifest meanes to auoide thē more then they be or may be now auoyded therby I may say vnto you lyeth a question For as our brethren told vs before of some among them that did this and that So some among vs that wish wel to our brethren think that this alteration of theirs would breed and nourish as great if not greater ignorance then is already euen in the Preachers themselues that it would cut of a great part of the study profession of al good letters both in diuinity humanity especially seing the example boldenes of diuerse some pretēding onlie the studie of the canonicall scriptures some pretending the reuelatiō of Gods spirit without studie so to suggest vnto thē at the same instant that they need not to premeditat what they should speak before they come vnto the pulpit Some vnder pretence of tourning the most part of teaching and exhorting into conceptions of long prayers Some in distinguishing too precisely the office of a Teacher from the office of a Pastor cutting off ther-by the on half of a Doctors office excluding al exhortatiō reprehensiō consolatiō al applicatiō frō his doctrine and the most of them such as their-selues could not deny in the first obiection but said Let vs graunt the great difference which they make of yeares learning betweene the Archbishops the Bish. and them and yet would these not only ouerthrow their estate of gouernment but make euery one of them-selues to be equal to them besides the setting vp in euery congregation a Seniory of Ecclesiastical gouernours chosen out of all sortes estates of men Noble men Gentlemen merchaunts yeomen artificers husbandmen c. which ought to haue the hearing examination and determining of all matters pertayning to discipline and gouernement of that congregation as they tell vs in this Learned discourse pag. 84. And besides the Deacons excluded from all preparing themselues to the studie of the Pastorall ministery These things and a number suche like many that loue our brethrendo feare would shortly breed and nourish a greater ignorance in the ministery then now there is especially seing the boldnesse of many both Ministers and others either manifestly known to be ignorant of the pitch of these controuersies or but superficially flourished ouer are the hoatest sticklers in these broyles or the greatest fauorites of this desired and vrged alteration yet some of them if they were well apposed while there is nothing in their mouthes more than discipline discipline they cannot tell their selues what discipline is would be full weery of it if they had it or if they were but a litle sharply displed but euen with that discipline that is already in force by the gouernement of the church established Now as Ignorance breedeth and nourisheth Popery or other errors superstitions so againe they feare that this alteration by so many manifest occasions breeding and nourishing ignorance either it might as manifestly breede and nourish Popery euen
Maiestie their honors and the Bishops may be assured hereof Or will they promise this on the worde of a faithfull minister that they will exercise their ministerie no otherwise But why then do they it not For there is no other thing required of them and it is their dutie so to doe it But what especiall regard of the peace of the Church publike orders if they had libertie to exercise their ministery according to their consciences is it likelie that our brethren would haue wheÌ„ as they were restrayned only for the abuse hereof being restrayned do thus disturbâ— the peace of the Church the publike orders of the same Yea all their especiall regarde and drift is against the publike orders And if nowe they should thus be with fauour allowed to exercise their ministery according to their coÌ„sciences what would our brethreÌ„ then spare to do against these publike orders I maruel therfore how they can thus coÌ„fidently say it is impossible but that they shall exercise their ministerie c. Whereas it is both against all sense and reason yea plaine impossible to bee graunted to them without we would with all graunt vnto them all their desires and deuises in these controuersies For the residue of this conclusion we say in part with our bretheren also Wherefore most Christian reader when thou shalt by these fewe take knowledge of these things which are contayned in this preface and in this Learned discourse praye vnto God for vs and as thy place is and so farre foorth as accordeth with thy dutie therein sollicite and furder so iust a cause as that the peace of the Church the publike orders gouernment established be not preiudiced to this end only that Christs kingdome may be perfectly established the consciences of all the godly quieted the happy regimeÌ„t of her Ma. honored with much peace ioy and quietnes both at home among vs and that it may ouerflowe to thâ— reliefe comfort and good example of other parts of Christes Church that are distressed in forraine countries To the which effects good Christian Reader cal vpon God our heauenly Father in the name of his sonne ouâ— Sauiour Christ for the illumining of his holie spirit that thy iudgement being not foreâ—talled in these matters and yet being desirous to sée the trueth and to search out the bothom of these doubtes thou mayest bee able to discerne the spirites aright to resolue and staye thy selfe on the very grounde of trueth in all these questions And so a Gods name enter nowe into the perusall and considering of this learned discourse The first booke of this defence against the learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment The argument of the first Booke THE first booke is of the principles of this learned discourses platforme of the Churches gouernment of their partition thereof into a Tetrarchie of 4. estates Doctors Pastors Gouernours and Deacons and of their necessitie and perpetuitie of the perswasion to leaue our own Estate and embrace the Estate of our neighbors and of their putting back the treatise of the Christian Princes supreame Gouernment in Eccl. causes and their reasons why they will not first treate there-on vntill they haue before assigned vnto all and euerie of these 4. Estates all their places with their seuerall and ioynt offices and authorities wherein is shewed not only what daunger and iniurie is offred vnto Christian Princes but also with what vnworthie contumelies and sclaunders they are reiected to the ende of this Learned discourse A learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernement prooued by the worde of God THis is the Title commendatorie of this booke besides the other title which they set before it A brief or plaine declaration concerning the desires of al those faithfull ministers c. But because this later title liked them better our brethren take the former part of this title prefixe ouer euerie leafe of all their treatise this commendation A learned discourse of eccl gouernment I referre the iudgement of the learning to the learned Me thinketh our brethren should haue done better to let the discourse commende it selfe whether it be learned or vnlearned vino vendibili non â—pus haedera But what soeuer the reader can iudge of learning let him stil haue his ayme to this point that is here auouched but not likewise set vp ouer euery leafe proued by the word of God For beit learned or vnlearned proue that we yéelde And if our brethren proue it not by the word of God then we craue of them that they will cease these contentious discourses and not stande so much vpon their learning But both their learned discoursing of Eccl. gouernment and their prouing the same by the word of God shall appeare God willing to the Reader by the discoursing The Church of God is the house of God therefore ought to be directed in al things according to the order prescribed by the housholder himselfe which order is not to be learned else-where but in his holie word The first of these principles or propositions is the very worde of the holy Ghost vttered by Paul The second followeth necessarily of the first The third is a manifest trueth beleeued of all them that acknowledge the scripture of God to be a perfect rule of all our life and able to make the man of God perfect prepared to all good workes On these thrée principles our brethren lay their ground of al their learned discourse Which being rightly vnderstoode and building well vpon them are verie good principles or rather propositions as they terme theÌ„ Of this first is saide ynough alreadie concerning Dauids comparing him selfe to the stone in the corner of this mysticall houses building And most gladly we admit this our brethrens testimonie for the same as the verie worde of the holy Ghost vttered by Paule and that this house of God which is the Church of the liuing God is the piller and ground of truth Because it alwayes vpholdeth and maintaineth the trueth both in this matter of eccl gouernment and in all other so farre as is necessarie to saluation Albeit Christe in principall properly and absolutely is the onely ground and foundation of this house And heere by the way sith by this testimonie of S. Paul the Church which is the house of God is thus the piller and ground of the truthe If this gouernment that our brethren vrge be so necessarie and of so great moment to the house or church of God then is it likely the the Church of God though it hath not alwaies and in all places yet for the most part of time places or at leastwise in some ages and places had this gouernment maintained kept it or striued for it or else belike it was not thought so necessarie The second principle they say followeth necessarily of the first And so it doth which seconde was this and therefore this Church
plainely set foorth by any man Prooue the necessitie of the matter and we will not greatly stick vpon your Methode And would to God that which you say here of yâ— Methode ye would say it or rather obserue it of the plaine truthe it selfe and for the matter of the regiment concerning these offices that except yee can hereafter shewe which is yet not done that we are bounde by any commaundement of Christ or his Apostles vnto this your regiment of all and onely these 4. offices ye would say likewise with vs for the Gouernement established in the Church of Englande that as wee controll not other mens gouernement by ours so we would not that other mens manner of gouerning should be preiudiciall vnto ours But if ye will not haue vs controll your Methode vtter the same also in plaine wordes Our controuersie is all of the gouernement of the Church and you tell vs what Methode ye will obserue in describing the ministerie of the Churche as by which both the distinction and communication of all offices and seruices in the Church might most plainly appeare What doe ye make all offices and seruices in the Church to be of ministers Or al the offices seruices to be of gouernors How the distinction or communication of these may plainely appeare woulde haue béene somewhat more distinctly and plainely spoken As touching the reason of your request why ye would not haue your Methode controlled nor other mens methodes preiudiciall to yours I thinke it reasonable if there were no further difference then in the sorme and order of teaching of diuerse men when in matter of substance they all agree Anâ— yet in such matters as these are and so precisely vrged an vniformitie not onely of matter but also of the Order and Methode in teaching of them might perhaps haue made the matter lesse offensiue Howbeit if they all agree in matter of substance and the matter of substaunce bee true be good be necessarie which they all agree vpon so that they séeke the truthe indéede and plainnesse in their Teaching then is as they say it is but either for lacke of wit or through too much wilfulnesse if any exclaime there is no vnitie and therefore no truthe among them But when in matter and substance they differ not onely one from an-other but from themselues also then blame not men nor impute it to them that either for lacke of wit or that through too much wilfulnesse they say there is not so much vnitie and truthe among them as in matters so earnestly vrged there ought to be But now to the particuler viewe of these 4. offices Let vs then proceede in our purpose The office of Teaching is the chiefe and principall office that is in the Church By that we are taught to knowe God and howe to serue him and what benefits to looke for at his hande without which knowledge there can be no felicitie but only destruction looked for according to the saying of the wise man where prophecying faileth there the people perish Albeit the office of teaching in these respectes as to know God and how to serue him and what benefites to looke for at his handes as the ordinary cause sine qua non without which there is no knowledge and without knowledge there can be no felicity but c. may wel be said to be the chiefe and principall office that is in the Church yet in respecte of the Ecclesiasticall gouernment which is the title of all this Learned discourse vnderstanding the same truly and plainly for the gouernment in of or ouer al Ecclesiastical causes how they should be ordeined directed or disposed I take it that this office of teachers admitting it were such a distinct office by it selfe from the office of Pastors as they woulde haue it is not the chiefe and principall office in the Church In Christe him selfe are the offices of a King of a Prieste and of a Prophete And in that he was a Prophete he was a Teacher also or Doctor Which office was so necessary to reueale the will of his heauenly father that both God the father said from heauen This is my welbeloued sonne in whome I am well pleased heare him Mat 17 And Christ of himselfe Luc. 4. did reade this sentence The spirite of the Lord is vppon mee because he hath anointed mee that I shoulde preach the Gospell to the poore c. So that where no man saw God at any time except the onely begotâ—en Sonne which is in the bosome of the Father had declared him Io 1 As he saith also Io. 17. I haue giueÌ„ vnto theÌ„ the words which thou gauest mee and they haue receaued them and beleeued them c. without the which teaching there can be no felicitie but only destruction looked for as he said before in the same prayer This is life eternall to know thee to be the onelie very God and whome thou hast sent Iesus Christ yet not-with-standing the chiefe and principall office of gouerning the Churche of God was neither this high and necessary office of his teaching nor yet that of his Priesthoode which was as necessary yea and higher in the actions of the office then the other But his royall and kingly office was and is the chiefe and principall office in him And much morâ— is it in the outward regiment of the Church in Ecclesiasticall causes wherein Moses was aboue Aaron Iosue Dauid Solomon c. were aboue the high-priestes them-selues And so remaines it still except ye can shew the order of these offices of the church inuerted Of which the Papistes would be glad and vrge it harde especially from Peter wrestling there-to the thréefold saying of Christ to him Ioan. 21. Feede my Lambâ—s feede my sheepe feede my sheepe Meaning not only his gouerning but his office of Teaching which was his especial feeding of them and they driue it all to gouerning aduauncing them-selues before all Christian Princes And yet we graunt that in the action of their seuerall Ecclesiasticall function or Church ministery they are aboue all Christian Princes representing God vnto them teaching and admonishing them and all other But not aboue them in gouernment of all Ecclesiasticall causes Which is the question in controuersie now betwixt vs on the one parte and the Papists and these our owne Learned discoursing Brethren seuering them-selues from vs and adhering though not to them yet to their errour by a new deuise on the other parte The Ministery is deuided into two functions they that exercise the firste are called Pastors the other are called Doctors or Teachers I pray you my Learned discoursing Maisters for my learning héere againe let me aske this When ye desired not to bee controlled for your methode differing from others did ye include this not to be controlled though ye differ from your selues also and speake yee care not what contradictions both one against an-other and against your
and enricheth the word wherby the word becoÌ„meth effectual to animate enrich the element without ascribing vertue to the bare word Is it not theÌ„ of sufficient vertue to baptize clense the infant wheÌ„ besides the element of water these words In the name of the father of the sonne of the holy Ghost that Christ hath coÌ„maÌ„ded those to vse which are his ministers appointed therunto besids the promise there declared of washing away our sinnes of newnes of life and that we shal be saued which promise where Gods spirite worketh by his worde is annexed to the element is not all this sufficient and effectuall to baptise an infant except a sermon also heereof be made at his baptisme Nay though he that were to be baptized were of ripe yeares to heare vnderstand and beleeue all these thinges yet sithe that he is not to be on a suddaine baptized before he be catechized in a sufficient vnderstanding and beleeuing both of all the mysteries of that sacrament and of all the necessary articles of our Christian faith shall wee say that euen then when such a one should come to be baptized hee must haue also a sermon made vnto him at the celebrating of this sacrament or else the element of water is but a worldly a dead a beggerly element and the word neuer so plainely pronounced is but a magicall murmuring And what if there be yet besides al this a godly and learned forme also most plainely expressing all the pointes conteyned in that mysterie and that all the couenant betwixt God and vs be so fully expressed that the best preacher in the worlde cannot in effect say more and all this so clereset out that all of vnderstanding may vnderstande it shall it yet be saide that the element is héere dead and beggerly and separated from his life and spirituall riches And all this haue we besides godly learned homilies and many other sermons set out for that purpose yet all this will not serue our Breth without a sermon preached at that instant And for the supper of the L. haue not wee likewise most pithie godly exhortations before we approch vnto it with prayers and thankesgiuing and publike confessions the whole institution also layd foorth before vs when we come thereto And the wordes of Christ not vsed with a magicall murmuring nor any such vertue ascribed to the wordes but all to Christ the instituter and to the vertue of his death and passion whom and whose passion we recorde and take the elements with the word in remeÌ„brance of him of his body giuen for vs of his bloud shed for vs shew foorth his death by this action feeding by faith in our harts on his flesh and bloud as effectually truly in spirituall manner as our bodies féede on those bodily elements and that hereunto these elements are coÌ„secrated as holy liuely signes pledges to confirme our faith relyin at 〈◊〉 the promise of the same our Sauiour that by eating his fleshe drinâ—â—ng his bloud we shal haue life euerlasting And all this is clearely set out eueÌ„ as it is conteyned in the scripture gathered together in so excellent disposed a forme as all the world cannot amende nor is inferiour to any of our Brethrens formes Yea all thinges considered our forme is farre more conuenient for vs than is any of theirs to enflame confirm our faithes in our Sauiour Christ in the merites of his passion to make vs repentant of our sins to comfort vs in the forgiuenes of them to knit vs in loue and charitie all to God in a communion with Christ our head in the communion of saintes one to another to prouoke vs to leade a new life to offer vp to God a spirituall sacrifice of our soules and bodies besides that of our lips by praysing glorifying God for all these benefits sealed vp thus vnto vs in these mysteries of our Sauiour Christ and withall vnfolded vnto vs by this so cleare setting out of all these thinges that euery coÌ„municant may vnderstande them and be moued by them And can now our Breth say if they wil say the truth that here wants the promise and worde of God and that it is separated and not set forth that heere is but a dead beggerly element that here is but a part and that but the outwarde part of the sacrament and so no sacrament as the bodie of a man without the soule which animateth and giueth life to the body is not a man but a dead corps And dare our Brethren beyonde all this be thus bolde to demand what can it be better than sacrilege For if it be no better than sacrilege then is it no sacrament at all We dare not burden the Papists so farre for their baptizing notwithstanding all their incantations superstitious toyes and materiall additions to the element of water besides their daungerous errours about baptisme that the baptisme which their Popish and Idolatrous sacrificers ministred no what heretike soeuer he were so long as he and they obserue the forme and matter of baptisme by our Sauiour Christ prescribed we dare not say they are not baptized at all and take vpon vs to baptize them againe nor I thinke our Brethr. dare attempt it or auouch it And can they auow these spéeches then of our baptizing now that kéepeth the méere and simple institution of Christ without any of those corruptions Howe farre more modestly writeth Caluine in his 265. Epistle Rogant quidam c. There are certaine that inquire if it were lawefull for the Apostles at the houre of prayer to ascende into the temple and moreouer for Paule to performe the solemne rite of sanctificatioÌ„ why may not we also intermingle prayers with the Papistes We must first holde this that the prayers which were in vse among the Iewes were pure formed to the lawes prescription Neither yet if the Papistes did conceaue a pure forme of praying would I make any religion to enter with theÌ„ into the â—eÌ„ple But nder became not them to ioyne theÌ„selues vnto their assembly that had â—deâ—â—fied Christ I answere a godly holy action is not corrupted by the vice of the men As I am wont to say that If all the Angels were present at the Masse they are not able with their holynes to clense the filthinesse therof Nor yet again are al the deuils able with their presence to bring to passe that the holy supper when it is celebrated according to the institution of Christ should not reteyne the puritie thereof Since therfore we haue the very institution of Christ both in his supper and in our baptisme so clearly set forth as we haue séene shall the ministers insufficiency to preach the things the he after so good a forme prescribed both to him vs declareth be such a pollution that these holy sacramentes should be defiled
end hereof Are these two preaching and ministration of the sacramentes seuerall offices For else how hang these wordes together For although the office of preaching be more excellent than of ministration of the sacraments as S. Paul speaketh comparatiuely if then they be different Ecclesiasticall offices and that so distinct that Saint Paule speaketh comparatiuely of these two offices and in that comparison separateth the one from the other then although they be of neuer so néere affinitie which soeuer be principall or which accessory if this with all be true that one office requireth one officer that to put 2. offices to one officer were confusion and euerie officer may fully dischâ—â—ge his owne office without the intermedling with any other office why may there not then bee a minister of the sacramentes distinct and seuerall from a preacher and minister the sacramentes to the faithfull people though he preach not being a seuerall distinct office from preaching as wel as a preacher distinct from a minister of the sacramentes and preach the worde to the faithfull people though he minister not the sacraments vnto them But I will not so straightly presse our Brethren These two offices may be well and better in one officer euen as may the doctor and the Pastor and yet they may be separated well inough in some So that hereby with the residue aforesaide I conclude that this conclusion of our Brethren is not a true but a most vntrue be it spoken with due reuerence and a most daungerous conclusion That where there is no preacher of the worde there ought to be no minister of the Sacramentes The argument of the 8. Booke THE 8. Booke consisteth of the Pastors dutie in publike prayers First whether all publike prayer ought onely to be such as is all conceaued and vttered by the minister and not to followe any ordinary prescribed forme with a view of the Iewes publike prayers before Christs comming The order of the Church in the Apostles times and in the primitiue age with the times next succeeding and of the orders of the reformed Churches Whether the people might not ioyne altogether their voyces in some of the publike prayers with the Pastors to auoyde confusion but onely to close with him in their consent by aunswering Amen with another like viewe of the order in the olde and newe Testament for the peoples voyces without confusion and of the primitiue and auncient Churches order therein Whether any seuerall prayers may now and then be vsed in publike congregations with a like perusall thereof in the olde and new Testament Of the abuses that our Brethren complaine vpon for long prescribed formes of publike prayers the ministers ill pronouncing the people 's not attending the vnsensible reading the ministers vnfitte place screenes Rood-lofts organe loftes chauntrey chappels high pewes opinion of well seruing God walking talking in the Church gathering money for the poore priuate prayer and reading neglect of preaching by reason of praying the establishment of both comparison of our publike prayers to the Popish seruice of the seruices giuing place to a sermon and whether publike prayer may be made without a sermon preached therat with another view of the vse throughout the scripture and in the primitiue Church Whether we contemne or thrust out preching for praying or no. Whether morning and euening prayer may be song in the churches Of the order in Cathedrall collegiate churches and mens delight to come and heare the seruice there being moued thereto by the Organes and musicke and their departing at the sermoÌ„ Our Brethrens comparison of our publik praiers to the Masse as a gentle beast that byteth not of the nature effects of our publ prayer Our Brethr. praier that all formes of prayer might be abolished to bring in preaching The peoples singing of Psal. al at once The Pastors duty in ioyning al waies these 3. preaching ministring the sacrameÌ„ts praying the auntient custome of his giuing the blessing at mariages FVrthermore it appertaineth to the dutie of the Pastor to make prayers as Act. 16.16 not only priuate as all men are bound to doe but also publ praiers in the name of the whole church Act. 6.4 1. Tim. 2.1 being the mouth thereof For wheras the spirit of God coÌ„mandeth all things to be done in decent comly order forbiddeth all confusion disorder as it were great confusion and vncomlines for euery maÌ„ to make his seuerall prayers in the publike assemblies so is it orderly for one to pronounce the prayer in the name of the rest the rest to pray with him in silence to answere Amen It is also decent that he which is the shepheard should go before the sheep in prayer the sheepe follow him in lifting vp of their harts in mutuall consent Moreouer for as much as preaching administration of the sacraments ought not to be vsed without publik prayers as it is the Pastors office to preach minister the sacraments so is it his dutie also to go before his flock in publ praiers But here we haue to obserue 2. things The first that as it pertaineth to the Pastor to coÌ„ceaue publ prayers so it is the duty of the whole Church in the name of the whole Church to ioyne in heart with the Pastor in the same prayers that they knowing and vnderstanding what he hath prayed may at the end giue their consent by aunswering Amen ALthough these quotatioÌ„s of our Breth Act. 16. v. 16. Act. 6 v. 4. 1. Tim. 2. v. 1. do not proue that this especially appertaineth to the duty of the Pastor to make the publike praiers in the name of the whole Church yet we gladly coÌ„fesse it And many other more proper places examples proue it our Pastors vse it So that herein we agrée saue for 3. great and material points here touched together For the only Pastors coÌ„ceiuing of all the prayers and so reiecting all prescribed formes For prohibiting the people to ioyne all their voices together in any prayers except onely in aunswering Amen And for their so vtter forbidding of all seueral prayers in publike assemblies All which points require a further declaration And first for these wordes of making prayers beeing vndrstoode as we commonly vse the phrase onely for praying or powring foorth our prayers vnto God as we allowe that sense so we graunt it is the Pastors dutie to make prayers not onely priuate as all men are bound to doe but also to make the publike prayers that in the name of the whole Church hee being in some respectes the mouth thereof But if by making prayers they vnderstande him to be such a maker of them that he may not pronounce any prayers which by any other are alreadie made to his hande and he by publike authority prescribed to make those publike prayers that is publikely to pronounce or say them in the name of
the whole Church but onely such prayers as he his owne selfe eyther hath before hande made and conned by roate or such as without any premeditation or committing to memorie he doth in his head conceaue euen as he vttereth them with his mouth and so at that instant make them this we vtterly deny And not to suspect here wtout good cause that our Breth vnderstand this terme of making publike prayers in this sense not only their wordes here following do plainely expounde their meaning when they saye It apperteyneth to the Pastor to conceaue publike prayers and it is a common phrase among our Brethren that such and such a one is an excellent conceauer meaning that he can make godly prayers but also that they can not away with formall reading as in contempt they call it and a prescribed forme of prayer But to confute this and to proue that a prescribed forme of the diuine seruice for the publike prayers besides the reading of the scriptures in appointed courses and orders is a thing lawefull and profitable First the Iewes had the same before and in and after Christes time not onely as perteyning to the ceremoniall but to the morall lawe for the obedience of the first table perteyning to the worshippe of God Numb 6.22 c. The Lorde spake to Moses saying speake vnto Aaron and to his sonnes saying thus shall ye blesse the children of Israell and say vnto them the Lorde blesse thee and keepe thee the Lorde make his face to shine vpon thee and be mercifull vnto thee the Lorde lift vp his countenance vpon thee and giue thee peace c. And although they had many of their publike prayers beeing mixt with hymnes thankesgiuings not onely sayde but song also yet were they such not only as their selues made or conceaued were they neuer so learned men but such as either Moses or Samuell or Dauid or Esdras or some other Prophete especially appointed thereunto by God had drawen out and prescribed vnto them As may appeare 1. Chron. 9. where after he had shewed ver 22. c. how Dauid and Samuell the feer had established the porters and other officers ver 33. he sayth And these are the singers the chiefe fathers in the Leuites which dâ—elt in the chambers and had none other charge For they had to doe in that businesse day and night And speaking of Dauid who made the most paâ—t of the Psalmes in the 16. Chapter ver 4. And he appointed certaine of the leuites to minister before the Arke of the Lorde and rehearse and thank and praise the Lorde God of Israell And vers 7. Then at that time Dauid did appoint at the beginning to giue thankes to the Lorde By the hande of Asaph and his brethren Whereon sayth the Geneua note Dauid gaue them this psalm to prayse the Lorde signifying that in all our enterprises the name of God ought to bee praysed and called vpon psalme 105. Thus doe our brethren apply these doinges of Dauid vnto our estate And in the 25 chapter ver 2. He mencioneth those that were vnder the hande of Asaph which sang prophesies by the commission of the king Thus did Asaph then set foorth the publike prayers endited prescribed by Dauid Although he as diuers think conceiued made many psalms and Prayers and prescribed then to others Likewise 2. chron 29. verse 27. And Ezekiah commaunded to offer the burnt offering vpon the Alter and when the burnt offering began the song of the Lorde beganne with the trumpets and the instruments of Dauid king of Israell and all the congregation worshipped singing a song c. All which orders and formes of publique prayer at the Diuine seruice though the Iewes afterward corrupted Esdras after the captiuitie recollected set againe in order Which though they were eftsoones corrupted and intermingled especially with the Pharisees traditions yet til and in the time of Christe they had at the diuine seruice the ordinary courses of reading the Lawe and Prophets as appeareth by S. Luke 4. vers 16.17 c. Where the booke of the Prophet Esay was deliuered to Christ. And by that saying in the person of Abraham to the rich glutton they haue Moses and the prophets let theÌ„ hear them Luke 16.29 Which Paule testifieth in his sermon to the Antiochians Acts. 13.27 For the inhabitants of Ierusalem and their rulers because they knewe him not nor yet the wordes of the prophets which are read euery saboth day c. And that this was the auntient order Iames the byshop of Ierusalem in the determination of that famous assembly holden by the Apostles Act. 15. ver 20. sayth For Moses of olde time hath in euery city them that preach him sithe that hee is reade in the synagogues euery sabboth day And heere also is the publique reading called a preaching With which exercises they especially adioyned the reading also of the Psalmes and other solemn publique prayers of the Scripture For which principal cause Christ saith of the Temple Math. 21.13 It is written mine house shall bee called the house of prayer c. And Act. 3. Peter and Iohn went vp together into the Temple at the ninth hower of prayer Which orders were of Christe so little improoued that not onelie as Luke declareth cap. 11.1 that one of the Disciples sayde vnto him Maister teach vs to pray as Iohn also taught his disciples desiring that they might haue some prescribed form of praier set downe vnto them but that also Iohn baptist had taught some forme to his Disciples Which request Christe did so little mislike that he himselfe also taught his Disciples among other preceptes a prescribed forme of prayer which the Euangelists wrotte and all Christians doe vse as the Lordes prescription Which is a strong warrant vnto vs that so long as all formes of prayers are according to that platforme of prayer they may most safely be prescribed For it serueth not only for priuate but for publike prayer Nowe although besides this onely forme of prayer prescribed by Christ we finde no form set out that the apostles or the primitiue church immediately after them did vse or prescribe to be vsed because they hauing that full measure of the spirite of God namely the Apostles Euangelistes Prophets Bishops Pastors and Elders yea the moste of all the faythfull people in these dayes so that they might well make conceiue their publique prayers before the Congregation euen as the spirite of God suggested in their heart gaue them vtterance in their mouths yet because that in the publike assemblies the Apostles prescribed the writteÌ„ scriptures to be read as Col. 4. ver 16. And wâ—en this epistle is read of you cause that it be read in the church of the Laodiceans also that ye likewise read the Epistle writâ—en from Laodicea and as they vsed that so no doubt did they vse to read in their publike assemblies the
the people This being finished the Bishop assembled into a higher place by steps to preache the Gospell of Christe The people in the meane while with a song conceiued called vpon the grace of the holy ghoste which of those steppes begunne to be called the Graduell But heere the Bishop did reade the Gospel before with great authority and then interpreted the same at the ende of the holy sermon he recited the Creede that they called the Apostles or else the Nicene or that which secondly was made Moreouer hee inuited the whole Church vnto mercie that euery man according to their abilities shoulde put somewhat into the poore-mens boxe That portion of the holy sermon they called the offertory And Pontius Paulinus teacheth that a table was wont to beset in the Church for the refection of the poore which also they called the Lordes Table and placed of the Lorde In this manner I say with these ceremonies and rites did the auncient exercise their prayers and sounde doctrine How beit this custome was not by all pointes common to all For some began the holy assembly not with the psalmes but with the crying together Kyrieâ—leison They that so did had not in vse either the Angels hymne or the collects or the Graduels verse To this agayne other sung the Alleluiah of the Hebrues as in another place Ierome sheweth Among some the bishop himselfe without all these thinges both beginneth with the sacred sermon and publique prayers added thereunto and dismisseth the assembly But no Church was compelled to sweare into the rites and ordinances of another so bee that the prayers and the holye sermons were entire and exercised holily and alwayes the best beeing contented with most few employed the cheefest partes to doctrine and to prayers Moreouer in the mysticall supper this rite was obserued well neere of all Churches The preest came foorth into the assembly The mysticall table stoode in the sight of the people furnished with bread and Wine He standing at this table blessed the people saying The lorde bee with you the people answered and with thy spirit Then he stirring vp the people vnto the most high matters and preparing the mindes of euery one of them cried Lift vp your hearts the people aunswered wee haue them lifted vp vnto the Lorde For Cyprian in his sermon of the Lords prayer saith Therefore the priest also making a praeface before the prayer prepareth the mindes of the brethren saying Lift vp your hearts while the people aunswereth VVe haue â—hem lift vp vnto the Lorde That they might be admonished how they ought to thinke on nothing but on the Lorde Thus saith Cyprian After this the preest moouing them to thanksgiuing saith Let vs giue thankes vnto the Lorde our God The people answered it is meet right we should so doe here sayd the preest It is very meete and iust right and healthfull that we should at all times euery where giue thaÌ„ks vnto thee O L. the Lord the holy father almighty eternall God through Iesus Christ our Lord For almoste all these thinges doth Aug. also in his book De bono Perseuerantiae mention cap. 13 saying That therefore which is said in the sacraments of the faithfull that we should haue our heartes lift vp to the Lord it is the gift of the Lord. Of which gift they are of the Prieste admonished to giue thanks to our God vnto whome after this speech this is said And they aunswere It is meete and iust c. But after these words the priest sayde who the day before he suffered tooke the breade gaue thanks brake it and gaue it to his Disciples saying take eate this is my body which is giuen for you and the residue which are read in the Gospell These things with great religion being accomplished the Lords prayer was sayd Which also Ierome testifieth in his 3. book against the Pelagians But also it is vulgarly receiued that the apostles did coÌ„secrate .i. celebrate the mistical supper at the praiers only of the L. praier after the L. praier the people receiued the holy mysteries by the communion of the sacraments of the body and bloud of the Lorde they grewe together into one mysticall bodye wherof Christ is the head To conclude al these things being orderly accomplished after this manner the assembly was dismissed Thus writeth Bullinger not to confirme but to confute the Popish Masse thereby And is not here a plain prescribed form of the diuine seruice both for the maner of their publike prayers and of the administration of the holy communion yea almost euen the very selfe same forme of order wordes that our book prescribeth vnto vs and although some Churches differed yet euery Church kept alwaies some one certain form or other which euery Minister might not alter at his pleasure But because after these times corruptions began to alter these ancient and holy prescribed forms of publike praier and of the sacraments Let vs nowe come euen to our dayes What Church reformed is there now where they haue not some forme of publike prayers prescribed ordinary among them and yet if there were nothing else but our Brethrens owne booke set out called the book of the form of common prayers administration of the sacraments c agreeable to Gods word and the vse of the reformed Churches It is inough sufficiently to prooue this point that there ought to be a prescribed ordinary form of diuine seruice and publike praiers not that the pastor shuld be the only maker and conceiuer of the publike prayers and the people only to approoue them and say Amen to such prayers as the pastor at that instant maketh or conceiueth Which conceptions of our brethren if they were suffered great inconuenience might grow thereon For either the people which perhaps vnderstood not his tearmes and phrases should rather stand marking and weying his words if they did so much as mark them and houer in suspence of any asâ—ent til they vnderstood the full drift of them than haue themselues any deuotion al the meane time vnto God so much as in hart silence to ioin with him till it come to the parts of closing vp their Amen vnto that wherein their harts were not in ful assent before ioyned vnto him Which when they haue marked attentiuely vnderstoode yea finally assented with their Amen neuer so frankly may rather in the end be called an aâ—sent vnto him then any publike or priuate praier vnto God with him So that that which they say here of publike praier as it pertaineth to the pastor to conceiue publike prayers so it is the duty of the whole church in the name of the whole church to ioyne in heart with the pastor in the same prayers that they knowing and vnderstanding what he hath praied may in the end geue their coÌ„sent by answering Amen This I say bangeth not together for any praier
in those publike praiers which the pastor speaketh onelie in all the peoples name the people nowe and then did giue their responses in their courses as if may appeare by that which Ciprian afterward saith But when we stand to praier most dearlie beloued brethren we ought to watch and be intentiue to the praiers with al our heart All worldlie and carnall cogitation must go from vs Neither must the minde thinke then of anie other thing than of that onlie which it praieth Therefore the Preest also giuing foorth a preface before the praier prepareth the breth minds in saying Lift vp your harts whē the people answereth VVe haue them lifted vp vnto the Lord they may be admonished that they ought to thinke on no other thing but on the Lord. So that the people said not only Amen but had other aunsweres also vnto the Minister as may appeare further in the Letanies and Liturges of the auncient Churches And to shewe howe farre the people ioined their voices with the Minister euen long after when the Ministers had gotten a great part of the praiers to their owne pronouncing in Chrysostomes time but yet before the blasphemies Idolatries and superstitions of the Masse began or the praying in a tongue vnknown to the people or in secrete muttering that al the people hard not it is worthy the obseruing to this purpose that which Chrysost. writeth vpon the last vers of the 8. chap. of the ◠epist. of S. Paul to the Cor. Homil. 18. Wherfore shew ye towards them and before the churches the proof of your loue of the reioising that we haue of you Now saith hee receiue ye them euen as indeede ye loue vs Declare ye howe wee not simply nor rashlie do reioyce in you This shall ye do if ye shall shew forth your loue towards them And afterward he maketh his speech more dreadful saying In the sight of the churches for the glory saith hee of the churches for their honor for if ye shal honor thē ye shal honor the churches that sent them For it shall not be only their honor but also their 's that sent them chose them before all it shall be to Gods glorie For when we shall honor them that minister vnto him the glory stretcheth to him For th◠communitie of the churches but this also shal be no smal thing for great is the power of a synode that is of the churches The praier of them loosed Peter from his bondes opened the mouth of Paul Their suffrage or voice not a little beautifieth those that shall attayne to the spirituall principalities And for this cause he that shall giue orders calleth then for the Churches praiers And they giue their sentences and giue their crie thereto Which thing they that are to enter into the Ministerye doe knowe For it is not lawfull to them that are not entred into the ministerie to disclose all thinges But there is that thing wherein the Prieste differeth nothing from him that is vnder him As when the dreadfull mysteries are to be partaked for we are all holden a like worthie to partake them Not as it was in the old law the priest did eate a part the people a part it was not lawful for the people to be partaker of those things wherof the Priest was partaker Howbeit now it is not so but one bodie is brought forth vnto all and one cup. Yea and in the prayers a man shall see that he offereth together with them the full cuppe both for those that are possessed with vncleane spirites and also for those that are the penitentes For the prayers are made in common both of the Priest and of them And all of them say one prayer a prayer full of mercie Againe when we haue shutte out from the Priestes circuites those that can not be partakers of the holy table another prayer is to be made and we all lie vpon the grounde alike and we arise all alike Againe when the peace is to be communicated we salute one another all alike And again euen in the same most dreadfull mysteries the Prieste prayeth for the people and the people prayeth for the Priest For when they say and with thy spirite it is nothing else than this those thinges that are of the Euchariste that is to wit of the giuing of thanks are all of them cōmon For neither he giueth thankes alone but also al the people For hauing before their voyce then they being gathered together that this thing might worthily and iustly be done he beginnes the Euchariste or thankesgiuing And what marueilest thou if the people speake with the Priest Whereas in deede they sound out those holy hymnes in common euen with the verie Cherubines and supernall powers These thinges verily are spoken of vs that all those also which are gouerned might be sober to the end we might learne that we are all one body Onely hauing among vs so much difference as mēbers haue from mēbers And that we should not cast al vpon the Priests but that wee also euen as for a body that is common should thus beare the charge of the vniuersall Church c. By these wordes it manifestly appeareth that the Pastor in the administration of the diuine seruice sayde not all the publike prayers alone though in the name of the whole Church and the rest ioyning in hearte with him in silence to auoide confusion and disorder aunswering him onely with Amen but that they had many responses and manye whole prayers that they prayed all together in common euen in the same manner as he did without any disorder or confusion Thus we sée both that in the whole tenure of all the scripture and in the practise of the primitiue and the auncient Churche succeeding they stoode not thus precisely as neither for the prescription of the forme of publike prayers so neitther for the manner of the vtterance of them but that often they ioyned all their voyces with the minister or followed him or aunswered him with many moe words than with a bare Amen which giueth nothing but as our Brethren confesse a silent consent vnto him which is rather an approbation of his prayers for them than properly any prayers of theirs ioyned with him The thirde thing that I would haue heere further considered in this matter of publike prayer is that our Brethren say it were a great confusion and vncomelinesse for euery man to make his seuerall prayers in the publike assemblies Indeede if euerie man did make his seuerall praiers in the publike assemblies at such times as the publike prayers are openly made by the minister in the name of the whole Churche and did neither openly praye with him nor in silence giue assent vnto him so be they could heare him I confesse it were great confusion and vncomelinesse But if the ministers voyce were so lowe either by nature or infirmitie that in a great assemblie all
the minist voluntary as the spirit of God they say shall moue his heart framing the same according to the time and matter which hee hath intreated of Pag. 46 So that hee may be as long or longer in his not prescribed prayers as in the other that are prescribed to him Besides also that euen almost halfe if not the more part of the Sermon it selfe is tranformed into conceiuinges of vnformall prayers Doe not all these long prescript formes of prayer and long prayers without forme and not prescript thrust out also a greate part of the preaching Ha brethren euen reckoning they say makes long friends Looke on your owne dealings in this matter and see if they may not for the length of reading of singing and of praying bee aswell compared to the long prayers of the Romish Church as ours may But they thinke that whatsoeuer length of time of their prayers doe occupy all is well if they haue a Sermon And for this also they accuse the popish prayers that they were ynough and too muche to occupy the whole day though there were no sermon where contrariwise say they there would be no ordinary publike prayer without preaching If the Papistes prayers were ynough and too much to occupy the whole day without a sermon and ours with a sermon and all being no longer than a short sermon are little ynough to occupy two or thrée howres of the whole day I aske no better acquittance of ours from resemblance of the long prayers of the Romish Church than this our brethrens owne testimony And if ther were no sermon nor yet homely read in the place therof the time was all the shorter Yea but say our brethren it should not for all that be so short For if it were vsed as it shold be ther would be no ordinary publike praier without preaching What do ye say my learned brethren shold there be no ordinarie publike prayer without preaching No ye say not so but ther wold be none And what meane ye by these spéeches there woulde bee none Do ye not mean ther should be none I trow ye mean not as ye saide before of the Sacraments pag. 63. that where there is no preacher of the Word there ought to be no minister of the sacramentes and so where there is no peacher of the Worde there ought to bee no Minister of the ordinary and publike prayer and if ther be it is vnavailable a worldy a dead a beggerly praier and what else but sacriledge do ye meane so but yee temper here this spéech somwhat more artificially for prayer that although plainly ynough it might so séeme to any that should read or here the same yet if yee were pressed with it when it commeth to scanning yee say not so but only that there would be no ordinary publike prayer without preaching And by whose will woulde there be none by your owne will or by the will of God and by what will of God For if yee meane by his will such an absolute wil that he wold so haue it of necessity to be none otherwise then indéed it is a wicked thing and contrary to his good pleasure to haue any ordinary publike praier to be made at any time without preaching But if ye meane of Gods will approuing the same onely as but more conuenient where it may be orderly had we will also holde with you therein and likewise would it were so Or if ye vnderstand by preaching any edidifying manner of teaching and setting forth the word of God in some whiles betweene the ordinary publike prayers we woulde the same also as well as you yea praysed be God we haue it so already But if ye speak of that kind of preaching that is such frée extēporal voluntary exhortation and exposition of the word of God as God shall moue the heart open the mouth of the learned preacher to declare that ye vrge this kind of preaching to be as necessary vnto ordinary publike prayer as ye did before to the administration of the sacraments we shold then shortly be in a proper pickle except yee coulde with all deuise better meanes than heretofore yee haue done that euerye congregation where ordinary publike prayer is to made may likewise be presently furnished with such preachers Otherwise wee should not onelie for the meane time lay aside the Sacramentes but cease from all publique prayers also If yee say ye speake not of all publique prayer but of ordinary publike prayer I pray you of what could ye haue spoken it more inconueniently sithe extraordinary publique prayer commeth but nowe and then vpon extraordinary occasions And therefore mee thinkes that preaching were of the twaine more requisite in extraordinary publike prayers than in ordinarie And yet that also were very harde so absolute to binde extraordinary publique prayers that they might not bee made without preaching But so to binde the ordinary publique prayers or else to cease them that is yet a great deale harder and more inconuenient than the other I speake not this but that we with preaching where and when and howe it it may conueniently be had as much as any of our Brethren do But if it may not so ordinarily bee had wee must not therefore intermit the ordinary course of the Sacraments and much lesse the ordinary course of Publike Praier but rather vse it so much oftener And where do our brethren finde any such commaundement of Christ prescribed that Publique prayer be it ordinary or extraordinary can not be made without a sermon preached It were yet more requisite of the twaine that no Sermon were ordinarily preached without some ordinary publique prayer Howbeit we read of diuers Sermons both preached by Christe him-selfe and by his Apostles when neither he nor any other then present made any ordinary or extraordinary publike prayers And also of ordinary and extraordinary publique prayers made without any sermon preached at the making of them Our sauiour Christ preached often times without any publike praier at his preaching that either we finde written or may coniecture As at that sermon conteined Mat. 5.6 7. Chapters Yea although in the same Sermon he taught the vse of Prayer Likewise Math. 13. and so the moste part of all his ordinary sermons except that which he made Iohn 17. and as for the Apostles the first Sermon indéede that Peter preached Act. 1. had a Prayer following because of the particuler occasion of electing an apostle But of the next sermon that Peter prescribed where so manie were conuerted Actes 2. We reade of no Publique Prayer at all made thereat Onely this afterward we read ver 24. that as we haue séene before it is said they continued in the Apost doctrine fellowship breaking of breade and praiers But this argueth not that they euer continued in a ioint exercise of all these thinges but continued in dooing sometimes the one and sometimes
it They therefore that saide the Masse was a gentle beast and did byte no man if they were no fauorites of the Masse did not perhaps meane it simply and in al respects but as Christ sayd Luc. 11.21.22 VVhen a stroÌ„g man armed keepeth his pallaice the things that he possessed are in peace But when a stronger than he coÌ„meth vppon him and ouercommeth him-he taketh from hâ—m all his armonâ— wherein he trusted and deuideth his spoyles The Dragon was quiet inough and the beast also to them that worshipped him and had the marke of the beasts Image but Apoc. 13. ver 7. it was giuen him to make warre with the Sainctes and to ouercome them and ver 15. And it was permitted to him that is to an other false beast representing these false Priestes these Monkes these Friers these Iesuites to giue a spirit to the image of the beaste so that the Image of the beast should speake and should cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed So that these beastes were but gentle in a counterset sort For to them that withstood them they were beastes indéed or rather flends and furies of Hell That they were gentle therefore it was not of their nature but of their hypocrisâ—e For seeing that gentlenesse is good and that men lyke it better than austerity the Diuel that was a murtherer from the beginning tooke vpon him the shape of the lowly poore woorme and golden skinned subtile serpent to speake faire and wish wisedome and not to sâ—ing or hisse or byte our firste and innocent parents when his purpose was to destroy theÌ„ and all their progenie The like practise hath he often vsed since by his diuelish Ministers and instruments and so did he by the Masse Which is of some called well the Horse of Troy that had so many fierse and bloudy Capteines euen within it and the Helene that was the cause of all the Cities and so many peoples destruction or as we may more rightly call her the very Iesabel of the Romish Achab that painted her face and trimmed her heade vsing her whoredomes witchcraftes with the murdering of so many saintes and Prophetes of God and yet forsooth she did bite no man and can our brethren now rightly say that this may rightly be verefied of our ordinarye seruice that was wont to be saide of the Masse Missa non mordet it was a gentle beast and did byte no man being a cruell beast and did byte so many men though it so falsly deceaued them with whome our brethren say it was so well beloued that being bewitched in loue with it they felt not the sting and biting of it As for our ordinary forme of publike seruice and prayers vnto the Lord that it is â—ylde and gentle procéeding from the vnfained and true gentlenesse and mildenesse that is in our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ and the sweete comfort of his holy Gospell If therefore it be well or better of many or any of vs beloued it is all the better nor any blemish to vs that loue it or to it that deserueth to be loued Neyther may this rigtly be vpbrayded as a fault that it byteth no man if it helpe and heale al men that are bitten which come for comfort thereunto For in our ordinarye seruice consisting most part of publike prayers made by the Minister the congregation to the Lord our God though we humbly acknowledge as those that are bitten and stoong with sinne and lay open before thâ— L. our wounds and guilt which are gréeuous vnto vs and euer against vs yet alwaies we so flee to the trone of grace that reposing our truste in the riche mercies and swéet promises of our heauenly father in his sonne our Sauiour Christ through the pledge and earnest of his spirite we cast the anchor of hope on the rock of Faith which shall neuer confounde vs but worke a strong and assured consolation and help vnto us And in this respect héere is no byting And yet in respect of other necessary parts in our ordinarye seruice of the Lord there is a byting too in a sort but a good byting if it may be so called As Christ likened the Gospel vnto the mustardseede that hath a kynde of byting as we terme it but such a byting as drawes no bloud And as the mercifull Samaritane powred in the sharp wine into the bloudy woundes of the man that was fallen into the theeues handes thoughe it were smart and byting the better to clense them euen so well as the swéet oyle to comfort and close them Of which nipping rather than byting tartnesse and muche more than any beastlye byting with the téethe though there may be some fitter resemblance and more profitable vse yet doth this byting in what sort soeuer it be more properly belong to the respect of the Law than directly it doeth to the office and consideration of the Gospell And as we like not of the false brethren called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the aduersaries of the Lawe as repugnant to the Gospell So our ordinary seruice is not without this part also of the Law For both among the Psalmes whereof a portion euery day is read diuerse dreadfull threates and imprecations to impenitent sinners are pronounced beside the terrible exaÌ„ples and warnings of Gods iudgementes conteyned in the Lessons both of the olde and new Testament besides sundrye other admonitions and reprehensions of vices so well as exhortations vnto repentaunce newnesse of life with prohibitions of the vnworthy to participate and receaue the holy Communion with Comminations and denouncing the curses against the trespassers of the Law All whiche things are apparantly conteyned in the prescribed forme of our ordinary seruice of the Lord. Now though the bestiall Masse had none of those true comforts nor any of these seuere iudgements of God sincerely set foorth yet we God be praysed for it haue them in our ordinary seruice of God This therefore is a very vncharitable and vntrue resemblance of the Masse and our ordinary seruice being in all these thinges as wee haue plainelye séene the one so plaine contrary to the other Vpon this most wrongfull resemblance our brethren conclude For therefore a great nuÌ„ber can so wel away with it because it doth not sharply reproue them of their sins nor disclose the secrets of their harts but that they may continue still in all kynde of voluptuousnesse al other kynd of wickednesse To away well with a good thing it is well done and the greater nuÌ„ber that so do the greater cause we haue to praise God for it Contrariwise to take away or to kéepe themselues away or not to away well with a good thing it is an ill thing and the greater number that do so augmenteth the euill and the gréefe of it If any away the better with our ordinary seruice
then was not these 4. virgines prophecying publike also it might be that these virgines prophesied vnto Paule of his troubles theÌ„ at haÌ„d they being in their fathers house where Paul hosted As likewise other Prophets in other places had done Whereof Paule saith in the chapter before ver 22. and 23. And lo nowe I goe vp bownde in the spirit vnto Ierusalem knowing not what thinges there shall happen vnto mee saue that in euerie Citie the holie Ghost testifiâ—th saying That bonds and afflictions do abide me And the like prophesies wer made vnto him at Tyrus as appeareth in this chapter ver 4. And as Agabus at that present did ver 11. But it rather séemeth by S. Lukes wordes and by this reference of Caluine to the auncient manner of prophecying that the prophecying of these 4. virgins is not to be restrained to time onely but that they vsed to prophecy were notoriously knowne to be Prophetesses And althogh they might haue then prophecied vnto Paul in their fathers house which was a priuate place yet the persons being present not only of their father an Euangelist who otherwise had authority ouer them of Paule being a publik person an Apostle and no doubt many notable persons in his retinue besides the faithful of the church of Caesarea ther is no likelihood but that it was done in no smal assembly thogh the place were priuate And yet to shew the maner of their prophecying furder to resolue vs in this doubt of Caluine Eusebius lib. 3. Eccl. hist. cap. 31. as we haue heard before citeth the testimony of Polycrates B. of Ephesus of whome we haue heard before page 317. This Polycrates saith Eusebius writing to Victor B. of Rome maketh mention also of him he meaneth of Iohn the Euangeliste and of Philip the Apostle also of his daughters saying As we haue already aboue inserted that the great lights in the parts of Asia are laid a sleepe whome the L. shall raise in the last day of his coÌ„ming when he shall come with glory and require all his saints But of Philip I say saith he which was one of the Apostles which slept at Hierapolis and also 2. of his daughters being virgines waxed olde in that place and another daughter of his replenished with the holy ghost coÌ„tinuedat Ephesus Wherby it appeareth that they were Prophetesses of great and publike renowme in Gods church and not suche as durste not prophecy but only in priuate places Which thing although Peter Martyr do not particulerly auouche it of these 4. virgines yet writing on the Iudges cap. 4. ver 4. he saith thus When GOD chose Debora vnto the ministery of iudging being in her kinde weake forthwith he made her renowmed and noble in the gift of prophesying With which gratious gifte and perhaps with many miracles moe she was of God consecrate with miracles confirmed as one that was chosen vnto so great an office Neither was this onely woman endued with the spirit of prophecie for wee reade also in the holy Scriptures that other women were so instructed with the holy ghost Marie the sister of Moses Anna the mother of Samuel Holda in the time of King Iosias were Prophetesses And in the new Testament to passe in silence the virgine Mary Elizabeth Iohn his mother and Anna Phanuels daughter the daughters also of Philip the Deacon as is recorded in the Acts of the Apostles were prophetesses Neiâ—her do I think that it ought to be denied that some of these women being instructed with the gift of prophecy taught the people publikly declaring to them those things that were of God shewed vnto theÌ„ sith that the gifts of God were not giuen to that purpose that they shuld closely hide themselues but that they should promote the common aedification of the Church In which examples of the new testament he seemeth chiefly to referre this publike prophesying to this example of these 4. virgines Now concerning that which Caluine saith on S. Paules precept 1. Tim. 2. ver 11. 12. expounding it thus that women should not vsurpe vnto theÌ„selues the the courses of speaking in publike and as he concludeth snatch vp the right of teaching in the sacred asseblies the ordinary Ecclesiasticall office wherof was giueÌ„ of God vnto men only all this we gladly grant vnto as the very meaning of S. Paule and héerein Caluine doth wel to referre vs for the exposition of this place to that which before he said 1. Cor. 14.34 For there he made a plaine exception of extraordinary examples And therfore to that which héere he aunswereth to the obiection of Debora the like women that the common policy wherunto God would haue vs bound is not ouerthrowne by his extraordinary facts if some women therfore being stirred vp by the spirit of God haue held the place of prophecying or teaching This could God do which is free from all law But bicause this is singuler it fighteth not with the perpetuall and accustomed policie This is a good aunswere so that we restraine it not onelye to those facts which were then done that he may not do the like nowe or at anye other extraordinary times For that were to debarre and limite God But vnderstanding it as Caluine did before that suche a necessitye maye come as may require a Womans voice So that the generall rule standeth still intier for the ordinarye Ecclesiasticall offices and coâ—ses of teaching although extraordinarily and in cases of necessitie a woman hauing the gifte of God to do it with edification may make a publik exhortation to the people As for this reason of Caluine why they should be forbidden to teache bicause their condition doth not suffer it what condition is that For saith he they are subiect but to teach is a matter of power or of higher degree The argument is this None may publikly teach that are subiects or of lower power and degre than are those whom they teach but womeÌ„ are subiect to meÌ„ oflower degree therfore WomeÌ„ may not publikly teach meÌ„ First for the Maior of this argument Caluine himself séemeth to distrust it the whole reason that dependeth thereon saying howbeit this reason seemeth not firme sith that the Proph. also and the Doctors or Teachers were subiect to Kings and other Magist. If this reason seemeth not firme then it seemeth as it is For in déede it is a weake reason staÌ„deth vpon infirm postes May none teach publikly that is a subiect or oflower degree in power than those are whom he teacheth But Caluine saith not so What saith he then weomen caÌ„not publikly teach Why so they be subiects what hindereth that yes forsooth doeth it for teaching is a thing of power and of higher degree therfore none maye teach but they must be of power and of higher degree ouer whom must this power and higher degree stretch but ouer them whom they teach Is not this then Cal.
Churches nor yet with Caluine in Geneua Melancthon in Analis Locorum com saith Confirmation among the auncients was a triall of doctrine in which they that were to be coÌ„firmed did recite the sum of the Christian doctrine Whereunto was added publike praier for them But of the Apostles was added also imposition of hands which the manifest giftes of the holy ghost followed As for that popish confirmation is altogether a voide and idle ceremony Neuertheles in the meane time it should bee profitable for the triall of doctrine to be made with the publike prayer for them Which certeinly should not be in vaine Herbandus in compendio theologia following Melancthon and writing of confirmation sayth What doost thou think of Confirmation properly it is not a sacrament But in the ancient time it was a triall of the Doctrine made in the Institution of Christian religion as the Catechisme is among vs in the which they that were Catechised did render a reason of their faith and did testify that they embraced this onely religion and to dissent from Ethniks and from heretikes Which being publikely done of the B. the prayers of the Church were added with the imposition of hands At which imposition in the time of the Apostles they were manifestly endued with the holy ghost As it is manifest in the Acts the 19. chap. Afterward by successe of time when myracles ceased in the Church the ceremony of the Imposition of handes was neuerthelesse reteined Whereby those that were baptised were prepared to the Christian conflict by the prayers of the Church and solemn blessing were confirmed But the age that came after thrust vnto the Church a certaine feigned confirmation for a sacrament c. Thus writeth also Herbandus of this matter He husius in examine theologico loco 18. de sacram What thinkest thou of Confirmation the answere Confirmation is not a Sacrament For it is not an externall action peculiarly commaunded of God neither is it a seale of the promise of grace The auncients searched the profiting of Children in the doctrine of the Catechisme and those that were rightly instituted they admitted to the holy Communion This is a laudable discipline in the Church if superstition be absent Kemnitius after he hath confuted the Papists errors of Confirmation These thinges saith he being thus vnfolded the examination of the canons of confirmation shall bee easy and playne For whereas that the first cannon condemneth such a confirmation as consisteth in a Catechisme and childrens profession of the faith it hath this meaning and reason Our men haue often shewed that the rite of confirmation the traditions vnprofitable superstitions repugnaÌ„t to the scripture being remoued both it may be vsed godly and to the churches edification according to the consent of the scripture after this maner to wit that they which are baptised in their infancy for such is nowe the state of the church when they came to the yeares of discretion shoulde be diligently instructed in a certaine simple catechism of the churches doctrine and when they seemed to hane meetely well perceiued the beginnings they shoulde afterwarde be presented to the Bishop and to the church And there heare the child that was baptised in his infancie which shold first with a short a simple warning bee admonished of his baptisme to witte that he was baptized howe and why into what hee was baptized what the whole trinity gaue sealed vp vnto him in that baptisme the contract of peace the couenant of grace how the renouncing Satan the professioÌ„ of faith the promise of obedieÌ„ce was there made Secondly the childe him-selfe shoulde before the Church declare his owne and the publike profession of this doctrine and faith Thirdly she shoulde be asked of the principal points of the Christian religion he shold answere to euery one of them if he did not so wel vnderstand them he should be better instructed Fourthly he should be admonished and this he shold declare in his profession that he dissenteth froÌ„ all heatheÌ„ hereticall phanaticall and prophane opinions Fiftly a graue and serious exhortation out of the worde of God should be added that hee should perseuer in the couenant of baptisme and in that doctrine faith and with often profiting be confirmed Sixtly a publike prayer shold be made for those children that God with his holy spirite woulde vouchsafe to gouerne keepe and confirme them in this profession To the which prayer the laying on of handes may bee adhibited without superstition Neither shoulde that prayer be vaine for it relieth on the promises of the gift of perseuerance and on the grace of confirmation Such a rite of confirmation shal bring with it very much profit to the edification of youth of the whole Church For it were agreeable both to the Scripture and to the more pure antiquitie For in the Apostles laying on of their hands that there was a triall of doctrine profession of faith the history Acts. 19. manifestly doth witnesse Of the exhortation also vnto perseuerance of the confirming them by the worde in the doctrin faith which once they had receiued the examples of the apostolicall Church are extant Actes 14.15 18. And that publike prayer was adhibited the history witnesseth A 8. Thus speaketh the 7. Canon of the Council of Laodicea the 8. of the Council of Aries concerning the triall and profession of doctrine faith in confirmation as we haue before noted And therfore the Canon of the Council of Orleaunce requireth a perfect age in confirming Neither agreeth this euill hereunto that Dionisius in the end of his ecclesiasticall Hierarchie writeth of thâ— Master of the catechisinges when the children baptized in their infancy were deliuered to be instructed that they might with doctrine and exhortations betrayned vp to perfourme keepe the profession of the faith the renouncing of Sathan and the promise of the obedience of God made in their baptism These thinges were proposed in the conference at Ratispone in the yeare 1541. And so hee telleth howe Eccius in the name of the papists did vtterly proudly reiect all these thinges affirming that in confirmation the vse of reason must not be tarried for Thus notably and at large doth Kemnitius also declare and approoue this good order and rite of confirming children and howe contumâ—liously the Papistes doe reiect it This therefore sauoreth nothing of popery nor of any other error or superstition but is Godly reuerend and very beneficiall to youths and to the whole Churches edification And what doth Caluine in his Institutions differ from these concerning the auncient custome of Confirmation In the ancient time saith he this was the manner that the children of the Christians after they were growne vp were presented before the Bishop to fulfill that office or duty which was exacted of them that being of ripe yeares offered themselues to baptisme For these sat among them that were catechized vntill such