the sum of all the force he has to make out a certain or sufficient assurance that the Saints hear our prayers Which by the way is to be understood of every particular Saint that is called upon by chance or else its little to the purpose And then again it is worth the nothing That if it were possible to bring certain or sufficient proof that every particular â—aint hears us it will not follow that a Religious Invocation is competible to them which the Circumstances of the Romish VVorship argue to be given to them but onely a civil calling to or asking them to do this or that For no honour buâ— civil is due to them as St. Austin himself up and down asserts And it is further to be noted that if they do not hear us the Invocation then is not civil but non-sensical and which is worse Idolatrous by Conclusion twelfth And therefore let us examine particularly the Arguments he produces to make good the contrary namely that they do â—ear and we should add by the intrinsick vertue of that state they are in But let us see at large how he proves they hear us at all The Reply His first Argument is That they enjoy the 〈◊〉 â—â—â—â—tifick Vision not gainsaid by Protestants 〈◊〉 â—â—termined by the Council of Florence 〈…〉 some of the Protestants not gainsaying 〈…〉 enjoy the beatifick Vision prove they 〈…〉 rather do not they deny it in denying that the consummation of our Happiness which is the 〈…〉 Vision is till the Resurrection 〈…〉 appear and we then being transformed 〈…〉 glorious Similitude shall thereby see him 〈…〉 but till then few or no Protestants 〈…〉 a beatifick Vision And it they did how 〈…〉 prove but that they are mistaken especia 〈…〉 Scripture seeming to defer that great and 〈…〉 Happiness till that day though they do not 〈…〉 them a pleasant rest and enjoyment of the Divine favour before then But the Council of Florence a general or Oecumenical Council has determined the point and therefore we may be certain that the Saints do already enjoy the beatifick Vision The words of the Definitive sentence as is supposed of the Council are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To see clearly the Triune God himself as he is And the Speculum Trinitatis the clear Looking-glass of the Trinity is answerable to this stile of the Council So that I must contess if there be sufficient Authority in this Council my Adversary has so fast hold of me that I must acknowledge that they have determined That purified Souls do enjoy the beatifick Vision before the day of Judgment But there are many things that make me think that this Council has not authority enough to assure any prudent man that this Position is true For first it determines also for Transubstantiation and the universal Supremacy of the Pope declaring him to have the Power and right of ruling and governing the whole Church The former of which is manifestly impossible the latter grosly injust against Christ the only universal head of the Church and against the particular supreme Heads of Christian Nations and Kingdoms over whom this Synod declares the Pope set over to govern as supreme Which by how much more it seems to favour the Popes immoderate ambition by so much it seems more certainly to deviate de via Spiritus 〈◊〉 and show the Council not to be infallible but rather actually Erroneous And if they were so in these things that are more obvious and discernible viz. That a wafer or a piece of bread is not Jesus Christ the Son of God Nor the Pope the universal Soveraign of all Christendom may not any one justly wonder how they became Infallible in determining what is the state of the Saints in Heaven themselves having never looked into that Looking-glass of the Trinity nor experienced what it is to see God as he is Mat. 5. 8. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God And again psal 17. 15. When I awaken into thy likeness I shall be satisfied therewith viz. with the Eternal Righteousness of God whereby we become like him and so see him as he is Secondly If this opinion of the beatifick Vision had been true and usefull for the excusing of the Church from Idolatry in the Invocation of Saints as my Adversary seems to insinuate surely the Holy Ghost would have revealed it more timely For this Council of Florence was not held till about 1440 or 50 years after Christ wherefore it coming so extreme late it is a sign it is onely a device found out by men to stop the mouths of them that object against the Invocation of Saints from their Incapacity of hearing our Prayers Thirdly Besides these flaws the certainâ—y and infallibility of this Council is blasted from the clear prediction of the Apostasy of the Church after about 400 or 500 years after Christ. And therefore we Protestants do well to have no great regard to any more then the four first general Councils Fourthly and lastly Though this Council had the face and appearance of a free Oecumenical Council it was not at all so in reality and Truth The Greek Bishops and others of that Clergy being many ways necessitated against their own Judgments and Consciences to subscribe that form which the Emperour Iohannes Paleologus and Ioseph the Patriarch had upon politick Ends with some few others contrived So that Sylvester Sguropalus a person of singular integrity and Judgment and a perpetual witness of the transactions of that Council as in particular he has noted how the the Bishop of Ephesus was denied his Florens because he was so inflexible to the purposes of the Pope How the Latines produced a false and adulterate Creed of the seventh general Council affirming that it was so read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the addittament of Filioque in that Council How the Emperor observing that his Clergy was for the greatest part of them against the Latine Church in their votes found a device to deprive all of votes but the Bishops and Coenobiarchae How falsely and fraudulently they read the places of the Fathers mutilating them and mangling them as they pleased and was most for their purpose How that after all this ado but ten of the Bishops and Coenobiarchae gave their votes for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the procession of the Spirit from the Son seventeen against it Hâ—w â—ereupon consultaion was held again of purging the Council but that way declined both the Patriarch and the Emperour dealt under hand with the most effectual perswasions of fear and hope that they could And at last how they brought it to this that thirteen Bishops gave their votes for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but the Coenobiarchae's votes were made null by a trick least they should have turned the scales again How the Lay Courtiers even to the Physicians and meaner sort of Officers were enabled to vote when so many of the Reverend Clergy were by devices made
no man can maintain it by Truth And therefore to bring a true Argument against us in defense of it would be to bring an impertinent one For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Truth always agrees with never clashes with Truth as Aristotle has noted And therefore it is not to be imputed to the weakness of my Antagonist but of his Cause that with undeniable evidence I have perpetually confuted his Answers though I believe he has brought as good as the Cause is capable of and managed them and intermingled them with such circumstantial Rhetorical humours slights and tricks to make something of nothing and to make a show of Answering and confuting me that I must freely confess he is a complete Artist in that Roman Sophistry whereby they become cunning Anglers for poor deceivable Souls And thus much in short upon his Title-page and Advertisement We come now to his Introduction which I shall cast into so many Paragraphs and so Answer them in order Paragraph the first Dr. Henry More is a Person whose Learning and Parts have brought him into a name among the Professors of the refined Arts and Sciences Fame speaks him a great Philosopher And his Publick works are said to avouch no less Nay some have passed so far in favour of his Character as to term him The great Restorer of the Platonick Cabbala And truly if this be so I conceive the Gentleman had done himself a great deal of right if he had still kept to his own Element for as much as his late unlucky ingaging in Controversial Disputes cannot but prove a blot to his former undertakings For the Learned world must needs acknowledge that Dr. More the Controvertist is much degenerated from Dr. More the Philosopher The Answer Here observe the art and smooth cunning of my Adversary who drives at these two things First to make show of a great deal of equity and candor of judgment in acknowledging notwithstanding the Controversie betwixt us that I am not altogether nothing in matters of Philosophy but have writ with some success and acceptance on such Subjects that he thus seeming so impartial and indifferent a man and so readily acknowledging any thing well done by me he may the more easily be believed where he gives judgment against me and says That though I be something succesfull indeed in Philosophy yet I am very unlucky and unskilfull in Theological Disputes a tolerable Philosopher but a very mean Controvertist in points of Divinity The other drift is to make me if it were possible to melt and relent that I have thus lessened my credit in the world by my unfortunately ingageing in Controversies betwixt us and the Church of Rome as if he bemoaned my misfortune therein who if I had kept to my own Element of Philosophy might have been gratious and acceptable with all the world with the Pontifician party as well as vvith the reformed and kept up my Credit in force with all when as now I have hugely impaired my repute at least with those of his Party But to the first I Answer That though this Intimation of his own Impartiality be craftily enough managed yet that general acknowledged Testimony of my suffering in Philosophy is a witness against himself For if I have been so usefull and succesfull in my Philosophical demonstrations of the existence of God and Immaterial Beings in the vindication of Divine Providence in the proving of the Immortality of the Soul and in finding the ancient Iudaical Cabbala which the Platonick Philosophy is so near akin to so artificially couched in the Text of Moses and the like all which tend to the honour and safety of the Christian Religion the same clearness of sight which helps me to discern and judge of these things cannot but inable me to judge also in those concerning points that are betwixt you and us As that eye that can see one colour right is not confined to that colour but by the same faculty and soundness of sight can see another And it is more my impartialness and unprejudicedness than any thing else that makes me see so clearly and so truely in any thing As to the second my Adversary has suggested no more nor so much as I have diverse times reflected upon my self and was well aware of before I meddled with these kind of Controversies namely that it would lessen my repute and favour with many But if I seek to please men how shall I be the servant of Iesus Christ as the Apostle speaks Gal. 1. 10. And as for the business of Repute and Esteem in the world I thank God I am convinced even from my very Heart and Soul that I ought to be utterly dead to all Self-joy and Self-gloriation and therefore if any thing happen cross to that life that ought to be mortified in me if it moves me not I am at peace if it does it is yet the gift of God to me and I am admonished thereby to advance furthâ—r into that death by the power and Spirit of Christ that will at length lay asleep all such disturbances in my Soul for ever And there are greater matters than the esteem of men which I am not insensible but have always been well aware that I run the hazard of and such as that wisdom which is according to the Spirit of this world sets the greatest esteem of all upon But this I thank God could never affright me into the neglect of so undispensable a duty as the declaring so important truth so exceeding clear to my self and of so unspeakable consequence for the Church of God and for the settling of a true grounded peace in the Christian world That there might be truely one flock and one Sheepfold and Jesus Christ the true Shepherd over all which cannot be till such Barbarous and Idolatrous Laws and Instituâ—es be reversed as obtain still in the Papacy But for my part my great Fort and Shelter against all the Inconveniences I expose my self to by my just liberty of speech is to keep as near as I can in that frame of spirit which our Saviour commends to us in that Precept of his Matth. 5. 44. Love your enemies bless them that curse you do good to them that hate you and pray for them that despightfully use you and persecute you Father forgive them for they know not what they do Luk. 23. 34. This is the Sanctuary I desire to take shelter in even in that ineffably profound and humble Spirit of unself-interessed Love which I infinitely prefer before all the keenness of wit and crafty prudence of the Spirit of this world that so subtily shifts for it self which I envy no mans use or injoyment of may but my Soul sufficiently incorporate with this lovely Spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ may that be the lot of mine inheritanec both in this life and for ever For this is that which is truely invincible indeed and will easily put by any such thrust as my
most important Topick of all for the proof of the Saints knowing the Prayers of their Suppliants I mean the holy Scripture and if he produces any place there to prove they hear when we speak to them I will so far forth yield up the cudgels to him as to acknowledge a civil calling to them or desiring them to do this or that for us that is really in their power to effect may not be absurd The place he cites is Matth 22. 30. The Saints are as the Angles of God in Heaven says he and of the Angels it is written See ye despise not one of these little ones for I say unto you their Angels in Heaven 〈◊〉 see the face of my Father which is in Heaven Matth. 18. 10. And again There shall be joy in Heaven upon one sinner that repenteth Luke 15. 7. To the latter I Answer first if it were the priviledge of Angels through the excellency of their own nature to know at what distances soever they are at when men prayed to them why was the Invocation of Angels laid asleep all the time of the Mosaical Law and why spoken against by the very Gospel or what warrant has the Church of Rome to invoke Saints more then the Iews to invoke Angels But moreover I Answer to that of Matth. 18. 10. The sense of the Angels in Heaven always seeing the face of Christs Father which is in Heaven is not that by enjoying the sight of God they obtain thereby a terrestrial Omnipercipiency and see and hear all things transacted here on Earth but the phrase of seeing the face of Christs Father in Heaven signifies that they are those Angels that also Minister and wait before God and are Assistents at the Divine Schechina or that inimitable glory whereby God reveals himself to the Angels and blessed Spirits and gives Oracles for the ministration of his Kingdom The Angels I say that assist holy men on Earth are of so great excellency that they are in Heaven part of the Satellitium that always wait on God who is in Heaven which also implies that they are one while on Earth another while in Heaven aâ—cending and descending to negotiate the affairs of the Church receiving Oracles and commands from the Divine Schechina But instead of these Oracles of importance if the Divine Schechina should tell St. Peter or St. Paul or St. Apollonia and the rest of the Saints ever when any pray to them in such infinite distinct places and some great numbers put together praying to some or other of the Saints let any indifferent man judge how incongruous it is It is sufficient in the mean time that no such terrestrial Omnipercipiency is to be proved in the Angels from this Text. Nor do's Luk. 15. 7. imply any such thing For the Angels ascending and descending as Iacob saw them in his Divine Vision on the ladder that reached from Earth to Heaven those that ascend from Earth tell them in Heaven of the good news of converted sinners and so this Text implies no such terrestrial Omnipercipiency as my Adversary would insinuate But then in the last place suppose this terrestrial Omnipercipency were competible to the Angels it does not follow from Mat. 22. 30. that the Saints already enjoy it For the entire Text runs thus For in the Resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are as the Angels of God in Heaven But I hope my Adversary will not with Hymeneus and Philetus affirm the Resurrection is past and if not so he must acknowledge even from this Text himself produces that this Angelical priviledge of the Saints in seeing all things in the face of God is yet to come if there were at all any such Angelical priviledge The last thing he alledges for this Point is the weakness of our Objections from the Modes of this Omnipercipiency of the Saints because Potest constare de re quando non constat de modo rei But I answer à posse ad esse non valet consequentia If we had indeed the like assurance of the thing it self That one particular Saint invocated by never so many and at never so far distant places at once did hear the Prayers of all those Suppliants as we have of the Divinity of Christ and the Triunity of the God-head then though I could not reach the particular Mode how it was yet I would believe it But when all manner of Modes producible of a thing seem absurd and incredible and in the mean time there is no assurance of the Reality of the thing it self it argues great levity of mind to give belief to such a thing that it at all is And it is not meer levity in things of such great Importance as the Rights of God and the danger of Idolatry but an irreligious and giddy Temerity Which I pray God keep all men from In the mean time it is very apparent that his attempts against my eighth tenth twelfth and fifteenth Conclusions are frustraneous and that they stand as firm as ever he haying neither proved that we may invocate the Saints we being uncertain whether they hear us or no nor yet proved it certain that they do hear us which were the two Methods whereby he could have undermined these four Conclusions And therefore they standing firm still it is manifest from his own supposal that the other seven viz. the sixth seventh eleventh thirteenth fourteenth eighteenth and twenty fourth stand firm and unshaken also We proceed now to his Answers to the remaining Conclusions in the order I find them His Answer to the ninth Conclusion Against this Conclusion he argues thus Incurvation of the body according to my sixteenth Conclusion is one of the Actions or Gestures which God did chuse in the setting out the Mode of his own Worship Ergo Incurvation towards or in reference to any Creature is Idolatry But now says he if this be true Abraham who used this Incurvation to Men and Angls Gen. 18. and 23. and the beloved Disciple of Iesus who reiterated the like Incurvation towards the Angel Apoc. 22. 8. were Idolaters And therefore my Conclusion cannot be true that is laden with so great an absurdity This is the main of his Argument The Reply In Answer to which I desire the Reader to peruse my sixteenth Conclusion My words are these That the erecting of a Symbolical presence with incurvations thither ward c. I do not say that simple Incurvation is one of the Actions or Gestures which God did chuse to set out the Mode of his own Worship by for Incurvation of the body in general is neither Religious nor Civil but may be either as all men know but that it is Incurvation toward a sâ—mbolical Presence which God appropriated to himself as a Religious Mode of Worship due to himself onely Simple Incurvation is permitted and has been used without any scandal to God or Man both unto Men and Angels Now neither Abrahams nor St. Johns
framed his frigid flaccid and insipid Dissuasive which he would father upon me but upon the Church of Romes false boasts of her self whereby to tempt ours to her Idolatries I put in their mouths what the Spirit of God says touching her in the Apocalypse and other places of Scripture Whereby is understood plainly how the Mystery of Iniquity is with them and how when they make a specious show and boast of being one thing the Spirit of God judges them the quite Contrary But further he adds That this Exhortation of mine is an ill-grounded and Schismatical Discourse Dr. Thorndike himself being Vmpire in the Case Repl. As for Dr. Thorndike I shall consider him at tâ—e close In the mean time it is apparent that my Exhortation is very well grounded it being grounded upon sound and clear Reason and the Holy Scriptures of God than which there is no â—uâ—eâ— ground in the world And certainly no genuine Sons what ever the ingenuous Sons of the Church of England may do will ever say that it is Schismatical whenas the main end of it is to keep the members of our Church â—rom making any Schism or separation from us and from betaking themselves to the Church of Rome who has separated herself from the purity of the Gospel But after this most inhumanely and injuriously he parallels this faithfull and unexceptionable Exhortation of mine made to the people to keep them from the deceits and inticements of the Church of Rome that they may not separate from the Church of England and Apostatize to her to the bitter and rebellious Trumpeters of war in the late distempered times who loudly out of the Pulper thundred into the peoples ears Curse ye Meroz yea curse ye bitterly c. And there are not wanting in this Nation says he those who can find Rome in England to make Meroz of it when they please Repl. Then they are those chiefly that are of your Emissaries gendring and fomenting But it is well known to all the world that it has been precisely and particularly my care and labour to distinguish what is truly Antichristan from what is not that the Church of England might be cleared from such Imputations and the saddle set on the right Horse As you may see Preface to my Idea of Antichristianism Sect. 8. and in the two last Chapters of Synopsis Proâ—hetica For my own part I dare say there is none that know me either personally or by my writings that will not readily acknowledge that nothing can be more removed from bitterness persecution tumult and rebellion then that Spirit that I am of No could I in those very times of rebellion and tumult forbear to testifie in publick my disgust thereof in these mean Rymes but of sound and good sense Immortality of the Soul Book 2. Cant. 3. stanz â— Can wars and jars and fierce Contention Swoln Hatred and consuming Envy spring Fâ—om Piety No 'T is Opinion That makes the riven Heavens with trumpets ring And thundring Engins mundrous balls out-sling And send mens groaning Ghosts to lower shade Of horrid Hell This the wide world doth bring To divastation makes mankind to sade Such direfull things doth false Religion pers wade But true Religion sprung from God above Is like her fountain full of charity Embraceing all things with a tender love Full of good will and meek expectancy Full of true justice and sure verity In heart and voice c. It is not our telling you plainly and apertly according to Truth and Scripture what is hainously amiss in you that can be any prejudice to our own Church but it is the excusing you and dissembling your great crimes by extenuating termes and your aggravating every little Ceremony of ours such as kneeling at the Communion and the like to make us odious to the ignorant people that makes us suspected of Romanism But this is one of your Arts amongst many others to make those that are the most hearty well-willers to the Church of England the most suspected by them But Truth and Innocency bids defiance to all your devices But in the mean time where is the charge made good of being so little concerned whether I speak true or false in this Exhortation of mine Why at last it is this That I so peremptorily aver that no Protestants allow them a possibility of Salvation but onely in case of such a Repentance as implies an absolute renunctation of their Religion and its Idolatrous doctrines and practises by disoâ—ning of and dismembring themselves from the Roman Church Which says he will scarce appear pardonable in the eyes of his fellow Doctors Repl. This is a charge founded upon the eighth Paragraph of this tenth Chapter I desire the Reader to peruse the Paragraph and compare it with his charge where after disowning and dismembring themselves from the Roman Church he omits a special â—lause which immediately follows viz. As much as it is in their power so to do Which is quite another tâ—ing from actually renouncing of their Church while they have not the opportunity of discovering her gross Errors but that their general Repentance is so hearty and unfeigned that it would descend to this particular upon the detection to them of the foul errors of that Church And this I hope will not onely be pardonable but acceptable to those eminent men of our Church Arch-bishop Laud Bishop Abbot and the rest he names out of Bishop Laud Relation Sect. 35. who examined to the bottom will appear of the same mind with my self And for that of Mr. Hooker in his Discourse of Iustification Sect. 17. where he saâ—s For my part I dare not deny possibility of their Salvation who have been the chiefest Instruments of ours Which Quotation which my Adversary so much glories in it is evident is nâ—thing at all to the purpose For as much as he speaks not here of those of the Church of Rome since the Reformation but beâ—ore when the state of the Church was the VVoman in the VVilderness as is manifest both from the sentence it self quoted and the Context But if Mr. Hookers Authority be of any weight with you do but look into the foregoing Section and he will tell you the Church of Rome hath plaid the Harlot worse then ever did Israel And now I demand for a Christian who is part of the Body of Christ to adjoâ—n himself to the Church of Rome what is it but to make a member of Christ the member of an Harlot as the Apostle speaks 1 Cor. 6. 15. And is that I pray the next way to the Capacity of Salvation But this by the by After this he brings in Dr. Potter and Dr. Hammond glorying much of the charitable principles of the Church of England and Objecting want of charity to them for maintaining that Protestancy unrepented destroyes Salvation Now if the Objectors should retaliate and say that Popery unrepented destroyes Salvation I would willingly be instructed saith he by Dr. More wherein