vnto the infideles and hypocrites for they maye wel hold them selues for assured that theyr infidelitie hypocrisie shall be distroyed and theyr glory shal be turned into shame and confusion And in asmuche as we be coÌ„men thus far forth it doeth seme vnto me that these mattiers haue bene sufficientlye declared and al the misterie of our redemption after such sort that I hold my selfe verye well satisfied for my part and bicause I feare to make the werye wyth takynge ouer muche of the at once let vs here make a reste to an other tyme. Phylyp Thou canste not make me werye in suche mattiers yet neuertheles I am coÌ„tente to folowe thyne aduice Farewell Natha To God I commende the vnto whoÌ„ I praye to gyue vs suche grace that we maye at that greate daye of Iudgmente be found blameles and irreprehensible by the fauour merites of Iesus Christe Phy. So be it ⧠In these ii laste diologes is opened the other parte of the crede the which do concerne the holy Goste and the church wherein is declared that whyche appertayneth to the one and the other and is shewed what is the true churche of Iesu Christ what is hyr polesie ministration what goodes she receiued of him Nathanaell IN as muche as we haue done the greatest parte Phylype I shall desyre the to haue pacience and to take the paine to expound vnto me the reste that we maye se the end of thys mattier Phy. It is reason and I wyll not deuye the my payne seynge it bryngeth â—o lesse consolation vnto me then to the. Natha It semeth vnto me that there be yet two partes to be declared the one of the holye Goste and the other of the churche Phyly It is true but we maye well conioyne that of the holye Goste wyth that of the churche go forth as we haue begonne Natha It doeth folowe I beleue in the holye Beleue in the holy gost Goste it is no further neade that I shoulde aske howe thou vnderstandeste thys for by that thou haste alreadie declared vnto me the fayeth thou haste in the father and in the son I vnderstande wel thou confesseste that thou putteste all thy truste in the holye Gooste And that thou beleueste that by the same the father and the sonne doeth sanctifie the as by Iesus Christe thou art iustified by the vertu of the same holye spirite Phylype It is true Natha Notwythstandynge I vnderstande that yet woulde I verye gladlye thou wouldeste expounde me more largelye what thou vnderstandest properly by thys holy spirite Phy. The same vertue power mouynge and efficatie of God by the which the father and The holy gost the sonne worketh in vs nourisheth viuefieth as we haue all readye sayed in declaryng oure fayeth of the father and the sonne Natha In asmuche as thou beleueste in him thou holdeste hym for a God as wel as thou doeste the father the sonne Phy. Yea wythout doubte for I vnderstande not by thys anye maner of thyng out of god or besyde God but in God of hys propre substaunce Na. Wherefore callest thou hym spirite the father the sonne be they not also spirite seinge thou confesseste they be God that Iesus Christe doeth openlye testifie that Ihon. iiii God is a spirite the whyche muste be honored in spirite and trueth Phy. I deme not but God is a spirite and so by consequence the father the sonne but we must first considre The signification of the word spirite what is the signification of thys sayinge spirite and whether we speake of the essence and vnitie of God or of the distinctions which be in the same which the auncient fathers haue called the persones of the trinitie Natha And what is the propre signification of thys same vocable spirite Phy. I haue saied before that maÌ„ caÌ„ not find propre wordes as to speake of diuine thinges but muste borowe them of humayne thynges by similitude of the same declare the thynges celestiall and spirituall Natha I remeÌ„bre it well but tel me theÌ„ what is the natural significatioÌ„ of this same word and howe it agreeth wyth God Phy. Spirite signifieth properlie inspiration blowing wynd bycause ther is nothinge more subtille amonge corporall thynges nor that lesse can be perceiued by vewe or syghte theÌ„ the wind and the spirite it is ofteÌ„ tasteÌ„ in the scriptur for to signifie the things inuisible diuine Na. Therefore I thinke we call the soule vnderstaÌ„ding spirit not that it should be taken but for a wind but bicause it is inuisible sodaynd lyght as the wynd Phy. EueÌ„ so likewise God is called a spirite not that we shuld thinke that he were nothing eles but a wynde whych passeth but to make vs vnderstand that we ought not to Imagin that he shoulde be anye maner of thynge visible materiall or mortall but one nature essence perfecte inuisible incorruptible and immortall whyche wyll also be serued with the herte and theÌ„ soule of the spirite and vnderstandynge whyche be immortall not wyth ceremonies corruptible thinges Nathana Accordynge to thys signification the father the sonne and the holye Gooste be then al called spirite and all for one cause but expounde vnto me wherefore thou calleste more perticularlye the holye Gooste spirite then thou doest the father and the sonne Phy. WheÌ„ I behold the diuine esseÌ„ce vnitie of god I call them al spirites but when I coÌ„sidre the personal distinction of the whych we haue spoken here before I do then principally call the thyrde personne spirite bycause that worde doeth better open hys propertie then anye other we can fynde Thou muste also vnderstand that often tymes in the scripture The holie spirite for hys gyftes and graces Esai xi i. Cor. xii the holye Goste is taken not for the essence substaunce of hym selfe but also for hys giftes and graces Nath. Wherfore callest thou hym holye Phy. For to deserue hym from creatures and for to declare that I speake of that vertue power and mouynge of God whych is in God by the whych the father by his sonne Iesus doeth sanctifâ—e saue and vinifie vs. Nathana What callest thou holy Phy. A thynge pure and ferme seperated froÌ„ all corruption pollution and from all prophane carnal vsage a thing whole entier and inuiolate and all togyther dedicate vnto God I â—al theÌ„ the holy gost because he is such in dede and that by hym God in Iesu Christ sanctifieth maâ—ne that is to saye he purgeth maketh cleane consecrateth and dedicateth hym whollye to hym lelfe seperatynge hym from all vyle and prophane vsages to serue The christian sayutes onelye vnto hym Therfore also be the christians called sayntes because they be anoynted wyth that oyntemente and wythdrawen froÌ„ the seruitude of the deuyll coÌ„secrate by Iesus Christe for to serue the onelye God Natha I vnderstande nowe wherfore Iesus Christe dyd sende a greate
sparkled thorowe al the worlde there is no creature nor liuynge man that can be the heade seynge there is not that can be in all places where she is nor that can gyue hyr ayde and assistence suche as to hyr is requisite but the onelye Iesus Christe the whyche by hys diuine power and by hys holye spirite fulfilleth the heauen and the earth and is present vnto all hys elected the whiche he doeth leade conducte gouerne and vinifie whyche non other can or maye do wherefore what so euer he be that wyll make hym selfe heade of thys churche whereof he oughte to be but a membre he is neyther heade nor mēbre but doeth make hym selfe a mēbre of Antichriste and hathe chosen Satan for his head in asmuche as he setteth him selfe in the place of Iesus Christe settyng vp hym selfe aboue hym not knowledgynge him for his head vnto whom boeth Angelles and men oughte to be subiectes for S. Paul shewyng the fruites of the resurrection and ascention of Iesus Ephe. i. iiii Colo. i. ii Christe wryteth howe that God hath exalted and set hym vp aboue all heauens and aboue all the thrones powers Lordeshyppes and dominions and hathe gyuen hym to be heade of hys churche Natha I vnderstande wel what thou wouldeste saye I shall holde me then vnto hym and wyll neuer acknoweledge other head of that triumphant churche but shall holde for hys ministers the true ministers and pastours of his churche and the other whyche wyll attribute vnto them selues that dignitie for verye Antichristes But lette vs come nowe vnto that thou haste promised me and declare vnto me what example we maye take of all the historie of oure lorde Iesus Christ Phy. That were very longe to be recounted and tolde for ther is nothynge so litle whiche cōteineth not greate sacramēts misterie but I wyll onelye sette forth the thynge vnto the in two wordes by the which thou maist iudg of al the reste The historie of our lord Iesus Christe serueth vs for an example in two maners and fyrste howe we oughte to confirme How the historie of Iesu christ serueth for exemple oure selues vnto hym as concernynge oure regeneration and spirituall lyfe whyche is hidden in him the other howe we oughte to confirme oure selues vnto hym in oure outwarde lyuynge cōuersatiō Natha The more thou wouldeste make the thynges shorte the more they seme darke vnto me wherfore I pray the thynke not muche nor spare me nother tyme nor wordes but expounde me the thynges so largly that I may haue cleare vnderstandynge of them and tell me the fyrste poynte what vnderstandeste thou by the spirituall lyfe of the whych the historie of Iesus Christ serueth vs for an example Phylype I vnderstande that all the lyfe of Iesus Christe oughte fyrste to serue vs as an allegorye by the whyche we oughte spirituallye to yelde oure selues to be conformable vnto Iesus Christe in that whyche verelye riallye hathe bene accomplished in hys bodie the which can not be in ours Natha Thou speakest not much clearlier thē thou dydeste therefore declare vnto me that whych thou wouldeste say by exemple Phy. I am contente Iesus Christe hath beene conceiued by the holy Gost borne of the virgyn Marye he hath bene crucified dead buried is rysen agayne and gone vp into heauē all whyche thynges can not be accomplished in oure bodies as they haue bene in hys But lette vs take payne that oure spirite maye in the same be conformable vnto hym oure bodies be conceyued and borne in synne and iniquitie not of the holy Goste in the wombe of a vyrgin but of corruptible seede and then for to be conformable vnto hym in thys lette vs nowe come vnto hys church beleue in hys Gospell and in the same whyche is oure mother and a virgin pure and chast we shal be conceyued and begotten by the incorruptible seede of the word of God our father and by Spiritual cōceptiō birth Gala. iiii i. Petre. ii Iohn xxxi Ephe. iiii the vertue of hys holye spirite shal be borne agayne chyldrene of God and shall be newe creatures and put of the olde manne and put on the newe bearynge the Image of the newe Adam whyche is Iesus Christe as wee haue borne that of the olde and of the synfull man Natha Beholde for thys is a holye conception and happye byrth Phy. Then in asmuche as we be all ready so conceyued of the holye Goste and borne of that pure virgin the churche whyche is the spouse of Iesus it muste followe also that the Eph. v. reste of oure lyfe be conformable vnto that of Iesus Christe accordynge to our spirituall conception natiuitie and byrthe We be not crucified nor put vnto death as he was but learne we of him to beare our crosse To be crucified with christ wyth him to be crucified vnto the worlde the worlde vnto vs as saynte Paule doeth write of hym selfe Nathana And howe can we be crucified vnto the worlde and the worlde vnto vs Phylyp When we dye vnto the world likewise dieth the world vnto vs. Na. These maner of speakynges To die to the worlde be verye darke Phy. They be darke vnto them whyche be not acquaynted or accustomed wyth the maner of speaking of the Apostles But I do vse ◠wyllynglye boeth to accustome the and bycause I do take pleasure in the stile of the spirite of God and of his Apostles To be crucified and dead vnto the worlde that is to be crucified dead vnto sinne and that is to forsake Rom. vi synne to haue no more acquayntaunce wyth hym and to do him no more seruice thē the dead do vnto the lyuynge for as the dead haue nothynge in commune wyth the liuinge but be seperated the one frome the other and haue no more acquayntaunce togyther euen so be they deade vnto the world which haue forsaken it to serue God and wyl no more be conformable vnto it that is to saye vnto the fleshe nor vnto hys concupiscences so is it impossible but they whiche be thus dead vnto the worlde liue vnto God and the worlde To liue vnto the worlde lykewise dead vnto them by the contrarye they whyche lyue vnto the worlde and vnto whom the worlde lyueth be dead vnto God as the Apostle doeth wryte of the voluptuous wydowe sayinge the wydowe whyche i Timo. ii doeth lyue in lustes pleasures in so lyuyng is dead and bicause that she lyueth vnto the worlde she is dead vnto God so then when we dye vnto the worlde we ryse vnto God and do practise in oure selues the exemple of the death and passiō of Iesus Christ spiritually whē we mortify our earthlye mēbres offer our bodies as lyuyng sacrifices vnto god Roma xii Colo. iii. and do kil by the swerd of the worde and do burne vp by the fyre of his spirite oure cōcupiscence carnall affectiōs lustes whiche be
myghtye wynde when he gaue hys holye spirite vnto hys Apostles Phylyp There is no doubte but he dyd it to The holye spirite sheweâ— in wynde signifie that as the winde suffereth the Rociers the litle and small trees and ouerthroweth by the rootes breaketh down broseth and maketh ruinous the greate myghtye trees So the vertue of thys holy spirite is to bring consolation to the hertes aflicted to purge the consciences to iudge the euile to ouerthrowe and sette downe the proude and to vpholde beare vp the weake and humble Natha If we wyll then haue anye thynge of God we muste obteygne it by Iesus Christe workynge in vs by hys holie spirite Phylip. It is euen so for by hym all the beleuers be vnite in one self body with their head Iesus Christe and be nourished and vinified in hym as by the soule and spirite all the meÌ„bres whyche be in one bodye be partakers of the goodnes which is in the same body Natha I beleue for that cause we put to by by after thys article the which appertayneth nyghe vnto the churche the whych is the bodye of Iesus Christ of the whyche thou speakeste of vinifiynge sanctifiynge by the same holy Gooste for we do saye by and by after the catholyke churche Phy. There is no doubte Natha In asmuch theÌ„ as we haue treated the other three partes The church of the crede that we be come to the fourth whyche concerneth the churche daughter of the celestiall father spouse of Iesus Christe tell me fyrste what thou callest the church Phy. Churche signifieth congregation and assemble Eph. v but I do take it and vnderstaÌ„d it here for the asseÌ„ble of the true and faythful christians whyche be vnite coÌ„ioyned by one selfe spirite and one selfe fayeth Natha Is there anye other church then the churche of the faithfull Phy. As we do cal the bodye and membres of Iesu Christe the churche so hath Antichriste hys body and membres whyche togyther make the malignaunt churche but for asmuche as that toucheth vs in nothynge we leaue it aparte and speake only here of the tru The malygnant church church of Iesu Christe therfore do we cal it holy Natha For what cause Phy. To put difference betwene hyr and the church of Antichriste and for asmuche as she is sanctified by the holye Goste for to be the temple and habitatioÌ„ of God Natha Wher fore doest thou also call it catholike what signifieth that worde catholyke Catholike Phy. It doeth signifie vniuersal and therfore do I saye I beleue the vniuersall churche bycause the churche doeth signifie all assembles and congregation where the fayethfull be assembled as is the church of Choâ—hi of Rome Galathiens and othere lyke I wyll declare that there is one catholyke churche that is to saye vniuersall and generall comprehending all the other the whyche is generallye sowen thorowe all the worlde onelye knowen of the onelye God whiche knoweth the hertes Natha If she be sowen thorowe all the world how is she a church seing that church signifieth coÌ„gregatioÌ„ asseÌ„ble so as thou sayeste it should seeme rather to disperation seperation and confution Phylype Therefore muste we considre thys The churche inuisible churche spirituallye and muste not thynke it to be a visible and local assemble sette and limited in a certaine place Nathana Howe vnderstandest thou thys or howe can the churche be inuisible seyng it is the assemble of the fayethful whyche be visible menne Phy. I denye not but that the men whyche be of the churche be visible but thys ioynynge togyther of the churche oughte not to be considered of the coniunction of the bodies but of the hertes spirits that be inuisible which none cause and therefore notwythstandinge I see the menne that be of thys churche wheÌ„ they be presente wyth me yet neuertheles I The churche mingeled thorowe all the worlde can not see them all because they be sparkeled abrode thorowe all the worlde and thoughe they myght be assembled all in one place yet coulde I not knowe them perfectlye because that the elected shal neuer be so wel seperated in thys worlde frome the infidels and reproued but there shall be alwayes manye hypocrites mingled amonge them the whyche we can not wel deserue nor iudge vnto such time as Iesus Christe shall make seperation of the Math. xxv goâ—es from the lambes and of the wheate froÌ„ the tares therfore do I saye that thys church is inuisible because the eye caÌ„ not se it nor the humayne iudgmeÌ„t wel deserue it therfore do we saye we beleue it for if we did se it at our eye wee beleued not but notwythstandynge we can not se it at our eye yet we beleue that the Lorde hathe hys elected whyche notwithstandynge they be sparkeled aboute thorowe all the worlde as touchynge theyr bodies be yet neuertheles so ioyned togither by the spirite of God that they be but one selfe bodye one selfe herte and one selfe soule Act. ii iiii Natha Thou wylt then saye that the vniuersall churche is a spirituall and inuisible asseÌ„ble of all the elected and chyldrene of God whyche be vpon the earth in what place so euer they be whyche notwythstandinge they be seperated and farre distaunte one frome a nother as concerninge theyr bodyes yet they be all vnite by one selfe spirite into one body misticall of the whyche Christe is the head Col. i. ii whyche dyed for to assemble the chyldrene of God that were sparkeled but if thys church be inuisible howe canste thou saye thou beleueste in hyr and that thou holdeste hyr fayth howe canste thou knowe what she is what she beleueth if thou know hir not Phylype I saye not that I beleue in hyr Natha Doeste not thou confesse I beleue in the holye Gost the holye vniuersal churche Phy. I do saye and confesse openlye I beleue in God the father and in Iesu Christ and in the holye Gooste but of the churche I do not saye I beleue in the holye churche but I beleue the holye churche Nathana Is it not all one what difference is there Phy. Verye greate For if I sayed I beleue in the holye church I should coÌ„fesse that I put my trust in hyr as I haue sayed before to beleue in God and the churche is not god but is an asseÌ„ble of men cursed is man that trusteth in man wherfore if I sayed I beleue Iere. xvii in hyr I should speake agaynste my self and should reuerse the fayeth which I haue coÌ„fessed hytherto Nathana Declare vnto me the differeÌ„ce Phi. By expositioÌ„s going befor it is opeÌ„ inough what seÌ„ce mi words should haue if I sayed I beleue in the church But when I do saye I beleue the holie churche that is to saye I beleue and confesse that ther is an assemble by the whyche I haue diffined the churche and that in the same I wyll lyue and dye Natha Howe wylt
be spiritual be commune vntâ—â—â—l but there is an othere coÌ„munion betwen◠〈◊〉 Sayntes that yet be lyuynge them whiche be departed for eyther of theim haue theyr estates aparte And therefore is there no suche CoÌ„munioÌ„ betwene saintes lyueinge and them that bee dead communion betwen the Sayntes that be departed and vs as there hathe bene betwene them in the time that they lyued and theÌ„ that lyued wyth them at the leaste we haue no testimonye of the holye scriptures for they serue not nowe vnto the church wyth the giftes and graces whyche they in theyr tyme receyued of God for the edification of the same for they haue fulfilled and ended theyr course and theyr ministration whyche nowe is committed vnto others and of the other part thei haue no more nead of vs nor of oure goodes for they be out of al necessitie Nath. Oughte we not then to honour them Phy. We may not honoure them as though they were present wyth vs nor do vnto them reuerence nor salute them nor speake to them nor presente vnto them of oure goodes nor anye maner of seruice for othere honourâ— nor seruice can we not do vnto them but in folowynge theyr holye doctrine and holye lyfe and conuersation as they haue folowed Iesus Christe for those be the reliquies that they haue lefte vs in the whych they would be honored by vs and so then when wee haue the â—â—lye scriptures in reuerence the whych god hathe geuen vnto vs by them then do we honoure theyr reliquies Nathana It is then greate folye to offre vnto Offerynge to sayntes them breade wyne candels golde and siluer and other thynges lyke seynge they haue no maner of nede Phylyp That is a furye or follye more then paâ—â—imrie it weare muche better for to offre vnto the lyuynge Images and Sayntes for to accomplishe that whyche the Apostle exhorteth vs to admonishynge vs to communicate vnto the necessitie of the sayntes it is verye cleare that he speaketh not there of the Sayntes departed but of the lyuynge and of the pore membres of Iesus Christe beinge among vs languisshyng and ouer preste with pouertie and necessitie Nathana I doubte not but those offerynges were more pleasynge vnto God Phi. Such were they of the primatiue church for the gatherynge spendynge and distributynge of the whiche the churche at that tyme haddâ— hyr deacons to serue at the tables and At. vi Rom. xvi vnto the necessitie of the pore we can no here fynde chapell churche or Image more meete for the practisynge of thys excommunicatioÌ„ and to offre vnto the Sayntes then in visitynge the hospitales pore wydowes orphaÌ„s fatherles sycke lame neadie and indigeÌ„t Vpon suche Sayntes ought the goodes of the churche to be employed and spente and vpon them that serueth hyr and haue nede Nathan That same were a goodlye thynge but tel me yet what seameth it the of brotherheades and monkerye for seynge there is but Deut. vi i Timo. ii Ephe. iiii one christian church one communion of laintes one God one mediatour of God man one spirite as we haue coÌ„fessed hytherto and that all is but one gospell one Baptisme one Ceane one fayeth and that all the christians ought to be in one selfe bodye one selfe herte and one selfe soule it seameth to me that ther oughte to be but one religioÌ„ and one brotherheade seyng that al the christians be brothers haue all receyued one selfe spirite of fayeth and christiaÌ„ religion Phy. There is no doubt but they which haue bene the authours of the monasticall lectes and that foloweth theim suche as they be at thys presente tyme and those brotherheades lykewyse taken of the folowynge of the panyms be Apostatase from the true church of Iesus Christe for as Sismatykes they do deuide breake and teare the communion of saintes for as there is but one God so can there be but one religion The whyche S. Iames doeth diffine in thys maner the religion that is pure and without spot towardes God the father is thys Viset the fatherles widowes in theyr neades and tribulations and be not spotted defiled wyth thys worlde he doeth not saye that the true religion is to shute thy selfe in a cloister or to dwell in the deserte to be disguised in diuers habites to eate and deuour the pore widowes fatherles vndre the colour of long praiynge for suche religion is to much pharisaicall but the christian religioÌ„ doth lye in fayeth whyche maketh vs studye vnto all puritie and innocentie to exercise our charitie towarde our neyghboure whych is the true marke of the true christians disciples of Iesus Christe the Abbot of that religion is God the father and the gardian is Iesus Christe and the religious brethrene be al true christians and faythfull for as the Apostle testifieth the spirite of God witnesseth vnto oure spirite that we be the chyldrene of God by the whyche we crie Abba that is to saye father then in as muche as Abba doeth signifie father and that wee take God so to be and call hym father there is theÌ„ no doubt but he is the Abbot and founder of oure religion Act. ii Ephe. ii the whyche he doeth conserue maynteyne and gouerne by Iesu Christ hys sonne whom he hath giuen to be head of the church Ihon. vi x. and into whose handes he hathe putte vs all to be vinified sanctified vnite and conioyned wyth hym by hys holy spirite and the habite that we muste put on in thys religion is oure Lorde Iesus Christ the newe manne whiche we muste put on and of the olde Adam for Ephe. iiii we muste chaunge the skynne and the herte and not the ayer and the coote or clothes Nathana In asmuche then as God is the father of vs all and that wee make inuocation vnto hym by that name it doeth folowe also that we be all bretherne and so wyll Iesus Christe that we call oure selues and then if we be all brethrene wee be then one brotherhead I can not then vnderstande that here is anye other brotherhead but that of the holye Gooste by the whyche the churche is assembled and all the sayntes vnite and conioyned in one communion Phy. Thou concludeste verye well therefore Brotherhed Math. xiii confesse we fyrst in this crede the faith which we haue in the father whyche saueth vs by Iesus Christe hys sonne and doeth sanctifie vs by hys holye spirite whych be of one selfe essence and diuinitie wyth the father in the whyche we beleue and put al oure truste we laye fyrst the fundation and the cause and after we come vnto the churche whiche vpoÌ„ the lâ—me is founded builded Howe can we theÌ„ saye that we be of the brotherhead of Saynt Bernarde and of Saynte Sebastian and of The brotherhed of saynts suche othere lyke or of Saynte Barbara or saynt Katheryn or of oure Ladye or of anye other of the holye Sayntes what soeuer they be
for we can nother call theÌ„ fathers nor monor we be not bâ—etherne by the reason of theÌ„ nor vnite and conioyned by theyr spirites but if they haue bene true and fayethfull they be oure bretherne and haue beene lede wyth oneselfe spirite And lykewyse maye we also saye of all the monasticall sectes and diuersitie of religions For if Saynt Paule haue called the Corinthyans Sâ—smatikes whyche sayed I am of Paule and I of Cephas and I of Appollo what title or name shall I gyue them whyche saye I am of the religion of Saynte Fraunces and I of Saynte Dominike and I of S Benet other suche like which be in greater numbre amonge the christians then euer they were amonge the panims maye we not well saye vnto them wyth the Apostle is Christe deuided hathe Frauncys or Dominike dyed for you or are ye baptised in theyr names In as muche then as wee are baptised in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holye Goste what haue we neede of anye other religion but of that in the whyche thys holye spirite doth raygne which doeth learne vs to make innocatioÌ„ vnto the fathers in the name of Iesus Christ hys sonne whych hath taken vs all into theyr sauegarde and protection what haue we nede of anye othere rule but of that the whyche Iesus Christe hathe The Rule of the Religion of Châ—ist Gal. vi broughte vs from heauen Of the whych the Apostle doeth speake in thys maner all they whyche walke after thys rule peace and mercye be vpon them and vpon Israel of God Natha I haue learned manye goodlye poyntes by the occasion of thys coÌ„munion of saintes for thou haste not onelye taught me what it is but also what is the true excommunication religion and christian brotherheade and what is the honour dene vnto Sayntes therfore nowe expounde vnto me the reste Phy. Because we haue abyden solonge vpon these two articles of the church the communion of Sayntes wee maye here deuide oure matter and kepe the reste tyll an other tyme the which shal be shortly done Natha At thyne own pleasure be it ⧠In this laste dialogue shall be spokeÌ„ of the remissioÌ„ of synnes of the keyes of the kyngedome of heauen of the resurrection and immortall lyfe Nathanaell VVe haue done so muche by our Iorneis that we be al moste come to the ende of the crede seyng therfore we be arriued thus farre fourth our hertes must not faile vs for the litle waye we haue to go Phy. I haue better courage then euer I had tell me therefore what foloweth Natha The remission of synnes what is the vnderstandynge of thys article Phy. I coÌ„fesse by these wordes that I beleue that as there is one churche assemble and vnite by the holye spirite in the same oâ—e coÌ„munion of all goodes that the synnes lykewyse and the faultes be pardoned vnto the fayethfull by the grace goodnes and mercye of God whyche doeth quitte theim all theyr dettes to the ende they should not be rekened vnto theim at hys Iudgemente nor that they should not beare the payne whych they haue merited and deserued Humayn Satisfacion merets Nathan Seynge there is remission and forgiuenes it doth appeare folowe that ther is nothynge of our satisfaction for wher ther is pardone there can be nothyng of our merites Phylype There is nothynge more certayne for the dete is not forgiuen to hym that satisfieth and payeth wherfore it doeth folowe in as muche as there is remission and forgyuenes for vs that the satisfactioÌ„ is of sum other then of oure selues and that we can presâ—t no other recoÌ„pence vnto god but the satisfaction of his sonne Iesus Christe for whose loue we obteine of the father pardon of al our sinnes Natha And this pardon and remission caÌ„ we not obteygne but in the churche Phy. No for as at the time of the floude none coulde be saued whyche were wythout the shipe or arke of Noe so none can auoyde the Gen. viii Pâ—â—â—r iii. No sâ—luacion ouâ— of the church iudgement of God and obteygne grace and pardon of hys misdedes excepte he be a true membre of the church incorporated in the bodye of Iesus Christe persenerynge wyth the people of God in the vnitie of the fayeth Natha It foloweth then that all cismatykes heritikes infidels excommunicate and al authors of sectes whych be deuided and seperated frome the churche can haue no pardon of theyr synnes but abyde in death and damnation vnto suche tyme they be recouciled wyth hyr Phy. It is euen so Nathana Tell me then by what meanes we obteyne pardon in the churche Is it necessarie to confesse oure synnes vnto the priestes and to haue theyr absolution for to obteyne this remission Phy. It is verye requisite that if we will that God pardon vs that we reknoweledge oure faultes but not to the priestes for it is not agaynste theÌ„ that we haue synned but againste God whyche onelye as mooste soueraygne kynge maye gyue vs grâ—ce and pardon and thâ—refore as we haue synned agaynste hym euen so muste we conteste vnto hym our synnes and aske of him pardon accordyng to the example of Dauid of Daniell and of othere holye prophetes seruauntes of God For as Saynce Iohn sayeth if we confesse oure sinnes he is faithfull and wyll heare vs. Natha I vnderstande well we must confesse oure selues vnto God fyrste but is it not re-requisite that we confesse our selues vnto meÌ„ Phy. We maie confesse vs vnto menne in diuers sortes as fyrst If we haue offeÌ„ded anye we oughte to reknoweledge oure faultes towardes hym and aske hym pardon and enforce oure selues to returne into fauour wyth hym for we can not obteygne pardon of god so long as the iniury we haue done vnto one neyghboure doeth accuse vs before hym askynge vengeaunce agaynste vs excepte wee studie to reconcile our selues vnâ—o him whoÌ„ we haue offended and thys confession maye be called brotherlye recoÌ„siliation the whyche Iesus Christe doth greatlie recommend vnto vs. Ther is yet another maner of recoÌ„siliatioÌ„ towardes men the whych may be boeth publyke and particuler for when we haue beene Open coÌ„fesâ—â—on in errour and abused in Idolatrie and superstition and haue offeÌ„ded God we ought not to be ashamed to reknoweledge our faultes opeÌ„lie and to gyue thankes vnto God as did i timo i. Math. i. Act. ii iii. saint Paul writinge vnto Timothe and they whyche dyd come vnto the baptisme of Iohn Baptiste and they whych were conuerted by the pâ—eachynge of Saynte Petre and also of the Ephesians whyche dyd burne the bokes of sorcerie euen so theÌ„ as I may reknowledg and confesse my faultes openlye in thys maner â—efore the church of God euen so may I do in perticuler or secret vnto my neyghbour for to haue councell and consolation of him or for to reconcile my selfe vnto him if I haue Perticuler coÌ„fession offended hym or to the ende he praye
to God for me vnto suche confession doeth Saynte Iames exhorte vs sayinge Confesse your selues one to an other and praye eche one for other he doth not say confesse the vnto the priestes for as we oughte to praye the one for the other not the priestes onelye euen so ought we to reknowledge oure faultes one to an other coÌ„fesse our infirmities for to giue praises vnto God for the entertayning of amitie amoÌ„ge vs euerie one to seke the quietnes of other but I haue not founde in all the holye scripture that God hath coÌ„mâ—unded vs to go to tell all our synnes in the eate of a priest for that is impossible God doeth not so muche desire the reliting of our sinnes by perticuler Math. xvi as the coÌ„trition sighes sorowes of the herte the teares as we haue exemple in S. Petre which did much better coÌ„fesse his sinnes with his hert his eyes theÌ„ with mouth Natha I find that that thou saiest is very good but I woulde yet fayne knowe howe thys remissioÌ„ is practised in the church and howe we be partakers of it is it not by the bulles indulgence and pardons gyuen by the Pope Phy. It is by pardon and indulgence but not of paper and perchemente sealed wyth waxe or lead as those whych the Pope gyueth but by the indulgence and bulles that the celestiall father hath sente vs frome heauen by hys sonne Iesus Christe wryten in oure hertes wyth hys owne propre finger and by hys holy spirite sealed with his precious bloud ratified and confirmed by his death passion Natha The bulles and pardons of the pope be then nothynge worth Phy. Yes they profit them that gyueth them as towchyng theyr bodies bycause they take money for them but they brynge greate domage and hurte vnto theyr soules also vnto the bodyes and soules and goodes of theim that receyue them for in as much as they seke remission of synnes by anie other meane then by the bloude of our Lorde Iesus Christ they do not beleue the remissioÌ„ of sinnes the which they confesse the whych is in the church of Iesu christ wherfore they abide alwaies in their sinne daÌ„natioÌ„ subiectes to the cuâ—sse maledictioÌ„ that S. Petre dyd gyue vnto Simon Magus his monei Nata Thou wilte then saye ther â—â— no other true pope that maie giue vs indulgence and pardon for to deface and take awaye ours sinnes but Iesu Christ but by what meanes doth he make vs partakers of hys pardons and indulgences Phylype By the ministeri of the keyes of the kingdome of heauen that is to say by the predication preaching oâ— hys worde whiche is the true keye of knowledge Nathanaell And who then hath these keyes â—uc xi Math. xxiii Math. xvi Phy. The church to whom Christe hathe gyuen them and be put in vre and practise by al true euangelicall Apostles pastours ministers priestes Nata Haue they theÌ„ authoritie and power to pardon synnes to absolue men Phy. Not of them selues but by the ministration of the keyes and preachynge of the gospell Natha Speake thys more clearlye Phy. There is but the onelye God that may pardon and forgyue synnes and that maye gyue grace but wheÌ„ by his ministers he doth offre vnto vs Iesu Christe hys sonne by his worde and in hym remission of oure sinnes he that beleueth is saued vnbounde and deliuered frome his synnes and he that beleueth not abydeth bound and damned as the minister openeth vnto hym by the worde Natha Then the ministers be but seruauntes ambassadours haue no authoritie nor power â–ª but so much as theâ— take of the word in that they do faithfullie set forth theyr message and ambassade Phy. No for none can pardon the synnes but God when man doth open the word of god it is not maÌ„ that speaketh but it is the spirite of God that speaketh in hym by the whyche the bearer is bounde or losed accordyng to hys fayeth or vnbeleue Therfore dyd Iesus Christ blow toward his disciples gaue them the holie gost before he sayed vnto them whose synnes soeuer ye forgiue shal be forgiueÌ„ whose synnes soeuer ye retayne shal be retayned he woulde by that shewe that it was the holye Goste that dyd pardon them and not they whyche he dyd vse as hys instrumentes and messengers Natha I vnderstaÌ„d wel it is as an ambassadoure whyche if he fayethfullye execute hys Math. x. Ihon. x. chaâ—ge the prince confirmeth it that he doeth if he do otheâ—wyse he wyll not coÌ„firme it but punish hym greuouslye Phylype It is as a man that will open a gate it he haue no keye or if the keye that he hath be not mete for the locke he caÌ„ not opeÌ„ it and therfore in asmuche as Iesus Christâ— is the dore and the waye by the whyche onelye wee maye go vnto the father Rom. x. Luc. xi and wee can not goe vnto Iesus Christe but by fayeth whyche openeth vnto vs the dore and all the treasures that be in him and fayeth cometh by hearynge of the worde of God whych is the key of knowledge it doth wel folowe that al the power of the Apostles of theyr successours is there limited that he that hath not this key is no minister of christ Natha I may theÌ„ well vnderstande by thys that the power of the pope of byshopes and priestes doeth extende so farre as they folowe the worde of God and God doeth approue and confirme that whych they do by it that whyche they do wythout it or agaynste it he doeth condemne all Phy. If thou wylt se the practise of thys considre howe S. Peter dyd vse at Hierusalem he dyd open Iesus Christ penaunce and remission of sinnes in his name Practies of the keys Act. ii iii. vnto the Iewes they whyche the worde dyd touche at the herte and beleued in it were losed by hys ministerie accordynge to the promise of Iesu christ saing that he that beleueth Mark xvi is baptised shall be saued coÌ„trarye wise he that beleueth not shal be coÌ„demned it foloweth theÌ„ that al the infidels abide bound as by the open preachyng all the hearers be bound or vnbounde accordynge to theyr fayeth or vnbeleue euen so be wee by all the perticuler admonicions of the Gospell opened shewed forthe vnto vs by the seruauntes of God visitynge correckynge admonishynge or coÌ„solatyng of vs other in health or sikcenes Nathanaell Thys poynte is inoughe opened Resureccion of the fleshe declared let vs come nowe vnto that whych foloweth of the resurrectioÌ„ of the flesh and the lyfe eternall whych shal be for the end coÌ„clusioÌ„ wherfore be these two last articles put in Phy. For manye causes for wythout them al the religion were nothynge for if we beleue not the resurrection of the flesh that oure bodyes shoulde ryse agayne after thys i Cor. xv mortall lyfe we