Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	father_n	nature_n	son_n	13,355	5	6.0279	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A90976	The sun out-shining the moon, or, Righteousness excelling rottennness in answer to a lying scandalous paper, published by John Moone, entituled, The true light hath made manifest darknesse, &c. : but it is darkness put forth for light, as it will appear by that which followeth / and is published by John Price.	Price, John, Welsh clergyman.; Bownd, William. Brief discovery of the the erroneous tenets of those who are distinguished from other men by the name of Quakers.	1658 (1658)	Wing P3353; ESTC R43721	30,935	58

is not my intention but to make a short reply to that wherein he doth particularly and falsly accuse not onely me but Hugh Ev●ns also In his 3. Pag. he saith That Hugh Evans said that Christ his Spirit is distinct but he diminished from his words for Hugh Evans said that Christ his Spirit is distinct in their offices operations Now I would desire every honest mind to consider the basenesse of this man that would cunningly and purposely leave out half the mans words and put the other half out in Print for these were the words that Hugh E. vans said That Christ and his Spirit are distinct in their Offices and operations Then John Moone accused him of blasphemy in saying that Christ and his Spirit is distinct Then Hugh said Why dost thou divide my words said John Moone I will publish thy blasphemy Then Hugh Evans said I charge thee to publish my whole saying Now I would have every sincere heart to judge whether this man is not left here without a cover to hide his nakednesse and shame Was it not a shameful thing for him to accuse the man of blasphemy and yet he himself afraid to publish the whole pretended blasphemy or doth it not argue that his malitious mind would cast a false aspersion upon Hugh Evans and upon that which he professed which I believe he aimed amost at Again consider whether this man hath not made shipwrack of a good conscience if ever he had any that would knowingly and purposedly misrepresent a man to all people under the title of a Blasphemer yet would not publish his whole saying which he did over over repeat I do not speak this because that the saying is so grosse in the terms as John Moone hath put it out but to shew the dishonesty of this perfect man This I say to thee John Moone that either thou dost not understand the sense of the word distinct or else thou art very willing to make uprears and quarrels where there is no cause but I do believe both of thee therefore I shal shew thee how Christ his Spirit is not distinct Secondly How he is distinct or distinguished The word distinct doth not alwayes mean two material things standing at a distance the one from the other as it is like thou dost ignorantly suppose there is distance in places in times and in persons but neither of these distinctions is to be made between Christ his Spirit there is also distinctions in natures qualities and properties yet I do not say that Christ and his Spirit is so to be distinguished The Father Son and Spirit is distinguished yet not divided though it is like that thou dost think that whatsoever is distinguished is divided There are three that bear witnesse in Heaven the Father Son and the Spirit and these three are one yet distinguished three and so it may be said of Christ and his Spirit Very much may be said of Christ being distinct in his Office yet not separated nor divided from his Spirit Christ said as he was the Son of man I have finished the work which thou hast given me to do but it cannot be said that the Spirit of Christ hath finished his work until all be converted that ever shall be converted and all the Saints glorified but the work of Christ in suffering for sin in the flesh is finished yet Christ and his Spirit is not divided but distinguished It is like that John Moon thought by leaving out part of the words which Hugh Evans had said that it would appear more like to be blasphemy It appeares also that John Moone did know that it was no blasphemy as Hugh Evans had spoken it or at least that he would not be believed by others if he did write the whole saying Take the wisest mans speech that ever was and let me leave out what part I will of it I know that I shall either make it blasphemy or non-sense as for instance Psalm 14.1 which saith The Fool saith in his heart There is no God leave out The Fool saith in his heart and then you may say that the Scripture saith There is no God John Moones affirmative is true but his negative is false it is true that Christ and his Spirit is one but to say there is no distinction in their Offices operations and workings is false as may be further proved by many instances but that the thing is so plain that I desire not to trouble the Reader any further But know this that Christ and his Spirit is one in reference to time place and person and an harmony of an agreement between them in their Offices operations and workings all in and fulfilling of the will of the one onely wise God I say further that the onely wise pure Father Son Spirit and Saints are one and yet a thousand distinctions I believe may be observed touching the Father Son Spirit and Saints and without distinctions he nor no man else can speak much of them not blaspheme I say saith John Moone that they are one and not distinct Then I say if there be no distinctions why doth he call Christ and his Spirit they which doth signifie pluralities he nor no man else can speak of the Father Son and Spirit and not make distinctions for in the words themselves lieth distinctions saith the Apostle Joh. 17.21 22. where he speaketh of the Father Son and Spirit and these three are one these and thine and mine them and us all these words doth signifie distinctions yet not divisions he goeth on to prove that Christ and his Spirit are one and so fights with his own shadow for nothing else hath he to fight with for all will say that Christ and his Spirit is one but if any would deny it he goeth very weakly to prove it for he goeth about to prove that which all England doth acknowledge in words and not make good any thing against what is affirmed that Christ and his Spirit is distinguished And this is the effect of his reasoning because John and Paul doth witnesse union between Christ and his Spirit therefore no distinction as he saith after he cited Rom 8.20 and Joh. 17.21 Now see where is the distinction saith he then he writes down John 17.21 22. Then said he Them that have an eye to see withal let them see the confusion which the Baptists declare whereas it is his own confusion foaming out his own shame and falsly accusing those whom he calls the Baptists in saying that they say That Christ and his Spirit is distinct the one from the other but thou hast grafted on this lie since thou thy self didst repeat that part of the words which Hugh Evans had said for neither did Hugh Evans say nor thy self till now that they were one from the other Is this thy honesty first to diminish from the mans words and instead of them adde thine own Hugh Evans said That Christ and his

shall be changed for the Trumpet shall sound they that have done good to the Resurrection of life and they that have done evil to the Resurrection of condemnation Here is thy objections and queries answered by him whom the world calls John Moons This Paper which he first makes mention of I sent to him I have not the Copy of else I would have set it down here but the effect of it was this John Moone hath charged me with Balaams sin and why but because I was a Register and he pressed upon me to prove my practise by Scripture and prove a Register in the Church of God Then I produced in my Letter that Scripture Nehem. 7.5 64. which is effectual to answer what he demanded and as he is full of confusion in other things so also in this in not distinguishing between the Church and Commonwealth to be an Officer of a just Law and justly executed is no sin neither is there any more error nor covetousnesse in it then is in any other calling whatsoever and wherein he compares me to Balaam who would by Witch-craft destroy all the people of God I will not trouble my self about it but leave such a plain case to the Reader to judge of the unequality of the comparison Here followeth several queries sent by John Moone and one John David to Hugh Evans and John Price which are as followeth Now having answered thy Paper and queries we have sent these few queries to be answered by Hugh Evans and thee and all your followers and so let them be particularly answered according to plain Scriptures if any of you can or else let your mouths be stopped for evermore First query What is the first principle of pure Religion and undefiled before God and whether this pure Religion is to be attained here while men are this side grave yea or nay John David and John Moone this in brief touching your queries We answer to your first That it is repentance from dead works and that is attainable this side the grave or the natural death Be ashamed of your ignorance in asking such a question as whether pure Religion is attainable in this life Second query What that light is which lighteth every man that comes into the world and whether that light is within in the conscience yea or nay Second Answer Christ is that light and it shineth in some men's conscience and not in all for Esai saith that there be some men which have no light in them Third query Whether that light which is come into the world which is the condemnation of the world be sufficient to lead them to Salvation yea or nay Third Answer It is sufficient Fourth query Whom God spake to when he said Let us make man in our own image and where that Garden of Eden is where the Lord God put man whom he had formed Fourth Answer God spake to himself as he was Father Son and Spirit and as touching the Garden of Eden where it is and seeing you would have us to prove by plain Scriptures we direct you to the first Book of Moses and the second Chapter not because we have no more to say of it but that Ismael is not worthy of it or you scoffers Fifth Query Where is that flesh and blood to be obtained except a man eateth thereof he hath no life in him now if any of you can witnesse life declare whether it be a this side grave yea or nay Fifth Answer That flesh and blood is in the believer and he eateth and drinketh thereof Sixth Query Whether they that are Baptized into Jesus Christ his death be not made free from sin yea or nay Sixth Answer They are made free from the condemning Power of sin Seventh Query Whether there be any true Church but that Church in God and whether any in that Church were persecutors or went for the wages of unrighteousnesse Shew one Example in all the Scriptures if you can or else repent and be ashamed for the evil of your wayes Seventh Answer There is no true Church out of God but are by Faith in God neither doth that Church persecute nor bring a Justice of Peace with them to threaten those that comes peaceably to enquire and to try the truth of its doctrine as you have done to us nor do any of them go for the wages of unrighteousnesse and we do exhort you to repent of your lying in accusing us of any such things Eighth Query Where that voice is to be heard which gathers into one sheep-fold and where that sheep-sold is and whether any of them which follow the one Shepherd may be plucked out of his hands yea or nay Eighth Answer Where the true Teacher is there the voice is to be heard And where the Saints are gathered there is the Sheepfold and they that follow Christ cannot be plucked out of his hands but if any of them will leave following of him by hearkening unto such seducers as you are them they may come to ruine Ninth query Where that City of the living God and Heavenly Jerusalem is and the Church of the first born and where the Spirits of the just men made persect is and whether this may be known and witnessed this side the grave yea or nay Ninth Answer That City is where the presence of God in peace is And we shall more fully possesse it when mortality shall be swallowed up of life Tenth query Where that bottomlesse Pit is where all them that doth wickedly and forget God shall be thrown into if any of you can declare JOHN DAVIES JOHN MOONE Tenth Answer Where the presence of God is not in peace there the bottomlesse Pit is If you are not satisfied with this answer do you appoint the time and place and send us word we will give you the meeting and will reason with you provided that you will be civil Hugh Evans John Price These fore-going answers were sent unto John Davies and John Moone from Hugh Evans and my self speedily after the receiving of theirs and seeing that John Moone hath put forth a Book why did he not put forth all that had passed in writing between us but in stead of that he gathered a parcel of his own forged lyes against us as I shall make hereafter manifest Here followeth another scandalous Paper which was sent to us from John Moone and John Davies which is as followeth A reply unto the answer of Hugh Evans one of the blind Priests in Radnorshire in Wales which he hath made unto certain queries which was given unto him and John Price one of his followers by us who are known to the world by the names of John Moone and John Davies wherein their blindnesse and Ignorance is made manifest Answer Whereas thou sayest that repentance from dead works is the first principle of pure Religion herein is thy blindnesse and Ignorance made manifest unto all them which will not be wilfully blind and thou Hugh Evans art found

in the steps of the false Prophets which knowest not the first principle of pure Religion For we say that the first principle of pure Religion was before transgression was and transgression was before repentance And again thou sayest that the light shineth but in some men herein thou art found a liar and wrestest the Scriptures who deniest the Testimony of Iohn who was a true Minister of the Lord who said It lighteth every man and thou sayest some men and not all And whereas thou sayest there is no true Church out of God but are by Faith in God neither doth that Church persecute This is truth and this we own to be ours and we find thee to be in the same Generation who said they were of the seed of Abraham and that God was their Father and Christ Jesus said Ye are your Father the Devil who was a liar from the beginning And there are all them who knows not the first principle of pure Religion strangers to the Covenant of grace and truth and this Covenant we witnesse to be our light and life and by this light we see thee and all the false Prophets to be out of the light walking in the dark world and here thy fellowship is with them who goeth for the wages of unrighteousnesse as thy Brother and Companion John Price who receives moneyes when people are married and when Children are born And now let that of God in all consciences judge whether this be in the Church which is in God or in the world where covetousnesse is And whether you be the Deceivers and Seducers who practise and uphold these things or us who are sent of the Lord to speak against these evil practises And herein we exhort you to that of God in your conscience which witnesse for us against all these evil practise JOHN MOON JOHN DAVIES READER Before I set down the answer to this foregoing reply as they call it which Hugh Evans and I have sent to John Moone and John David I shall give you a Relation of what Hugh Evans was Seeing that Iohn Moone hath the face as to give Hugh Evans the Title of a blind Priest therefore Ishall enforme you of what Hugh Evans was He in his youthful time was bound Apprentise in the City of Worcester to a Clothier and there he learned the Trade and wrought there many years Then in the time of the Wars he went from Worcester to Coventry Worcester being then a Garison for the King and there joyned himself to the Church and wrought there for certain years and being zealous in the Gospel and his love much kindled towards God and man and hearing that his native Countrey was destitute of that means of Salvation that is to say the Preaching of the word and the Ministration of the Ordinance of Jesus Christ he was much moved with love to the truth and to his native Countrey yet not judging himself fully furnished or fitted for that work and Ministry he by the consent of the Church went to a faithful Servant of the Lord Ieremiah Ives and informed him and the society there with him of the necessity of the Preaching of the Word in Wales then were they sent and came to Wales and performed the work which they were sent to do Hugh Evans having no other mind but to return then the Brethren besought him to abide with them the which he accordingly did for the space often years and upwards until the Lord saw good to deprive them of him in which time his Friends can give a large Testimony of his Zeal and labour in the Gospel yet this lying man Iohn Moone hath the face as to say that he was a blind Priest in Wales Here followeth another Paper of Iohn Moone which is like the rest and my reply to it but you shall find more by a Friend of mine who hath been accused for the same things by the forenamed Iohn Moone I went from David VVilliam unto Hugh Evans and John Price to give the said Hugh a Paper The said Hugh and Iohn fell a discoursing with me in which discourse the said Iohn Price said that the Devil was Eternal And he asked me whether I would deny it And I said I deny that the Devil is Eternal and bade him prove it by Scripture but he did not neither would he acknowledge that he told a lie but goeth on in sin beguiling unstable people and herein thou Iohn Price art found one of them who said that God was their Father but they were of their Father the Devil and thou callest the Devil Eternal and herein I see thee forsaking the right way art gone astray following the lust of the flesh living out of the fear of God speaking high swelling words of vanity but is found out among the Dogs and Sorcerers and unbelievers and they who loves to make a lie and before the everlasting fire of the Lord is kindled for the Devil and his Angels And herein I Iohn Moone do bear witnesse that the Lord God of Heaven and Earth is Eternal and what ever is Eternal is one with the Lord God and endures for ever And herein I utterly deny that the Devil is one with God whom thou sayest is Eternal and so let that of God in all consciences judge whether God and the Devil be both one for he that is Eternal is one with God and this is he who is our Salvation for evermore but he who calls the Devil Eternal knows not Salvation for there is no Salvation to be found in him but woe and misery which is the portion of unbelievers and herein we bear witnesse to the truth and against that which is untruth JOHN MOONE Here followeth my answer to John Moones fore-going Paper A word to thee Iohn Moone in answer to thy scandalous Paper which I have received from thee upon the 21th day of the first moneth in the year 1656. in which I find more of thy vainjangling and false accusing as thy manner is seeking to make me and all Saints odious But blessed are ye when men revile you and speak all manner of evil of you wrongfully as thou and thy fellowes do unto me and others who walk in the fear of the Lord and do continue by his goodnesse in his grace to which he hath called and chosen us and established our souls and spirits therein yet you that is to say Iohn Moone and Iohn Davies do call us Dogs the seed of the Serpent and Sons of the Devil and Children of darknesse and presumptuously in the name of the Lord excommunicate us if your cursing could from the love and grace of our God in pronouncing all the wrath and plagues of the Eternal God to fall upon us and saying to your own hurt that you are sent of God so to do I shall not bring against thee any railing accusations but the Lord rebuke thee and touching what hath been said by me concerning the immortality of the Devil It was to