Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	father_n	know_v	word_n	5,396	5	4.2358	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80765	The disputes between Mr. Cranford, and Dr. Chamberlen. At the house of Mr. William Webb, at the end of Bartholomew Lane, by the Old Exchange: on March 1. 1652, and April 1. 6. 13. / Published for the satisfaction of all that love the truth.	Cranford, James, d. 1657.; Chamberlen, Peter, 1601-1683.	1652 (1652)	Wing C6822; Thomason E666_6; ESTC R206920	19,015	40

Chamb. upon it replied that we may then take up the lamentation of the Prophet Isa 1.5 6. From the sole of the foot even to the head there is no soundnesse c. But can a clean thing come out of an uncleane Job 14.4 Doth a fountaine send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter Jer. 3.11 12. Do men gather Grapes of Thornes or Figgs of Thistles Mat. 7.16 17 18. Luke 6.43 44. Either make the Tree good and the Fruit good or the Tree corrupt and the Fruit corrupt Mat. 12.33 Many other things were spoken on both sides which could not be written down and indeed this Dispute was the most disorderly because some things were written and some not By reason whereof it is probable that both Mr. Cranf and Dr. Chamb. might have their thoughts diverted from a clear pursute of their Dispute and Dr. Chamb. at this time was so ill that he was scarce able to speak for Hoarsnesse Yet the Arguments will sufficiently shew what might fully have been proved in the matter And many other Arguments were provided All which may hereafter be mentioned if there be occasion They that are desirous of Truth may hereby be whetted on to a further enquiry if they be not satisfied They that are not desirous but of itching eares 2 Tim. 4.3 this is too much for He that is of God heareth Gods Word John 8.47 and 10.27 Something may chance be further brought to memory if Mr. Cranf or his Party shall think good to adde their Collections also Upon misreports of these Disputes these following Letters were occasioned which losing their place in the beginning are thus added for the better manifestation of the occasion of the Presse Erata IN Page 11. For you would fain draw me to believe it but you shall not draw me to it with horses Read Doctor I perceive what you would faine draw me to but you shall not do it with all the Cart-ropes and horses in Towne Meaning as we supposed Infants Baptisme For my much respected Friend Mr. CRANFORD SIR THere are some think much that so many hours of Discourse should be buried in a Napkin you may be pleased to unfold it to the World to prevent the overspreading of mis-informations unlesse you desire I should do it Let Truth be set up on a hill They that look upwards will see it they that love it will receive it They that receive it not in love may then justly be given over to strong delusions 2 Thes 2.10 11. Sir Let us not study our selves more then the Glory of God Your loving Friend PETER CHAMBERLEN April 19. 1652. Be pleased to return me your Answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sir THe discourse that passed between us was undertaken by me upon a particular occasion and hath had its effect and done that work which I intended It is neither in my purpose to unfold it to the World nor in my desire that you should there are books enough already of this argument out of which they that desire satisfaction out of love to the Truth may by the blessing of God receive it to which our discourse will add little if any thing Yet if you have a mind to be printing I pray you deale ingenuously and truely in your Relation I conclude as you the Lord give us that we may study our selves lesse and the Truth and glory of God more Sir I rest Yours to serve you as I may JA. CRANFORD April 24. 1652. For my Reverend Friend Mr. CRANFORD SIR I Have no itch to provoke the spleen of men against me as all printing of the truth will But it having been reported that you had so convinced me as to make me forsake the Faith which I do professe and had subscribed to your Party I suppose I am bound to let the Truth appear to the contrary by giving as nigh as I can the true relation of what passed between us not endeavouring so much to remember the weaknesses as the main scope so solemnly protested before the Lord to enquire after the Truth so that having those things before your eyes you may have opportunity in coole thoughts to meditate thereupon and give glory to the living God and purchase assured comfort to your own soul in obeying the Truth And Sir I beseech you consider whether Paul were more glorious when he was riding to Damascus with Power and Authority and Attendants given him from the once beloved people of God against the true Churches or when being reviled and persecuted he escaped for his life in a Basket and ranne to Jerusalem Acts 9. When he profited more than many of his Equals in the Traditions of his Fathers or when he preached the Faith which once he destroyed Gal. 1.14 23. Yet Sir you may now professe the Truth upon easier termes I beseech you in the Lord consider what a miserable Ordination that must be which is squeezed out of an ulcerous Chuch as you confesse it and to believe that the most Holy God with such sacrifices can be well pleased Consider also what a strange kind of Discipline that must be that must be found in the Mothers belly as you say Children are taught in their Parents and what a refuge is this to pick out Children out of the Disciples of Moses in John 9.28 Therefore I humbly desire you in all Christian love and faithfullnesse to lay to heart whether it will not be better for you once for all to deny your self and confesse the Truth then to be alwaies subject upon all occasions of discourses or controversie concerning these and some other points to have such poor refuges and weak evasions Consider also what Glory you may bring to Almighty God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in bringing many to confesse the Truth with you and no more to resist the Spirit of Truth and power of the Word of God Sir I know none can come unto Christ but those whom the Father draweth Joh. 6.44.65 and all that the Father hath given him shall come unto him v. 37. of which number if you be I professe I shall be willing to contribute all my endeavours and to hazard my life for you and look upon you as so much the more precious by how much not many wise c. are called 1 Cor. 1.26 so praying for you to the Lord who is able to doe abundantly above what we can ask or think I rest Yours in the Lord PET. CHAMBERLEN April 26. 1652.

either Authoritative or Charitative Ordinarie or Occasionaliter Publice or Private That is Authoritatively or in Charity Ordinarily or Occasionally Publickly or Privately Whence he layd down this Thesis That No Private Man that intends not the Ministery may Exhort Admonish Reprove Authoritatively Ordinarily and Publickly in a true Church without Ordination By Ordination he meant Approbation and Imposition of hands by the Preaching Presbyterie Candidati may Preach severall times and a considerable number of times for Approbation By Authoritatively he meant in relation to Christ and Men. Then Mr. Cranf layd down these Theses He that is a Tradesman and continues so ought not to Preach the Word of God not being Ordained Major And being once Ordained he ought not to Work By the change of the Question and those severall limitations restrictions and distinctions it was almost brought to what Dr. Chamb. might within a little have consented to But upon these last Theses Dr. Chamb. inferred this Minor following Min. But Paul was a Tent-maker and did continue so notwithstanding his Preaching Act. 18.1 2 3. and 20.34 and 1 Thes 2.9 Conclu Therefore Tradesmen Ordained Ministers or Ordained Ministers may Work Major Mr. Cranf answered that though Paul might it was not lawfull for other Ministers to Work Whereupon Dr. Chamb. replied Min. But the Elders of Ephesus Act. 20.17 ought to Work Vers 35. Conclus Therefore Ministers Ordained may Work There was no Answer by Negation or Distinction but a miscelaine of Discourses therefore Dr. Chamb. proceeded as followeth Ma. If Paul being Ordained to Preach and more priviledged from Working then others might Work then others lesse privileged might work also Min. But Paul being Ordained to Preach and more priviledged from working then others might Work Conclus Therefore others lesse priviledged from Work might Work also Mr. Cranf affirmed that Paul was not more priviledged from Work Dr. Chamb. proved it from 1 Cor. 9.6 Have not we power to forbear working c. The whole scope of the place is to set forth Paul and Barnabas's priviledge above Others Which being denied by Mr. Cranf Dr. Chamb. referred it to the Auditory Whereupon Mr. Cranf affirmed That the priviledge to Paul and Barnabas was not more but was common to others Dr. Chamb. then replied If Paul who was like priviledged as others might Work then others might Work also Here Mr. Cranf made a long discourse in the close whereof upon some words interposed by Dr. Chamb. Mr. Cranf by way of consent affirmed That whosoever hath an immediate Call by Christ may Preach any where without Ordination To this Dr. Chamb. argued Ma. They who are immediately called by Christ may preach any where without Ordination Min. But some Tradesmen are immediately called by Christ Con. Therefore some Tradesmen may preach without Ordination Mr. Cranf denyed the Minor which Dr. Chamberlen proved thus Ma. They who are immediately called by the Word of Christ are immediately called by Christ Mi. But some Tradesmen are immediately called by the Word of Christ Con. Therefore some Tradesmen are immediately called by Christ The Minor was denyed Ma. They who are gifted by the immediate reading of the Word of Christ are immediately called by the Word of Christ Mi. But some Tradesmen are gifted by the immediate reading of the Word of Christ Con. Therefore some Tradesmen are immediately called by the Word of Christ There Dr. Chamb. understood that Mr. Cranf did not allow gifts by the Word to be gifts of Christ Whereupon he offered this Syllogisme Ma. All that are gifted are gifted by Christ Ephesians 4.8 1 Peter 4.10 Mi. But they that are gifted by the Word are gifted Con. Therefore they that are gifted by the Word are gifted by Christ Rom. 1.12 and 1 Cor. 12. was also instanced Mr. Cranfords Answer was that those gifts were limited to mens approbation not to execution till after approbation But after approbation they not onely may but must Preach Which Dr. Chamb. referred to the Auditory because it seemed to contradict what he hath formerly consented to And seemes to set up the approbation of man above the gifts of God and to oppose the Command of the Apostle 1 Peter 4.10 On this Reference there was a Discourse between Mr. Cran. and Dr. Cham. Whereupon on some Questions propounded by Mr Cranf these following Particulars were agreed to and subscribed by Dr. Chamb. In a true Church Organicall of Christ it is not lawfull for any man to Preach or Prophesie Ordinarily in the ordinary sence without Approbation and Imposition of hands Nor at all unlesse it be in reference to the said Approbation and Imposition of hands Except they have immediate infallible revelation Upon further discourse Mr. Cranf affirmed It was not lawfull for any out of Office to Prophesie Dr. Chamb. affirmed it was lawfull for any to Prophesie 1 Cor. 14.31 else the whole Church might be Officers Mr. Cranf upon further proceedings said That By Prophets He meant such as had immediate inspiration By Teachers Such as instructed others By Ordinary What was in relation to endowments or frequency That Revelation of Scripture he counted Ordinary That Ordinary Revelation was to the Conscience Extraordinary to knowledge Immediate Revelation was such as was to B●laa● Num. 23. Immediate teaching was such 〈◊〉 Judas from Christ And that was no Revelation that was either by preaching or reading Then Dr. Chamb. Instanced that of Peter Mat. 16. Where Christ saith Flesh and bloud hath not revealed this unto thee And yet it was a thing that was ordinarily preached and known So that the Devils could tell that he was the Son of God Mark 1.31 And it was declared at his birth Mat. 3.17 c. And 1 Cor. 2.14 The naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God c. Mr. Cranf here would have distinguished upon the word Receiving as different from knowledge though the words following do in expresse termes say neither can he know them For they are Spiritually discerned Therefore Dr Ch. affirmed that knowledge to be extraordinary whensoever Scripture is revealed without mens teachings But Mr. Cranf affirmed that extraordinary was not by Scriptures nor Spirit but by Visions or Dreames Which upon revew he mended and said Not onely by Scriptures and Spirit But also by Visions and Dreames But this was the close of the first meeting ending in Prayer The Second meeting at Mr. WEBB'S was on the first of APRIL 1652. AFter Prayer and solemn Protestations as before Dr. Chamb. having desired there might be no offence taken at the phrases of the Scripture which he should make use of in his Arguments The Question was read Whether the Ministers of London Presbyterian-Ministers be the Ministers of Jesus Christ Mr. Cranf took the Affirmative Dr. Chamb. was to prove the Negative The first Argument was taken from 2 Cor. 11.15 Major They that are transformed as the Ministers of Righteousnesse are not the Ministers of Jesus Christ Minor But the Ministers of London Presbyterian-Ministers