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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	father_n	john_n	word_n	5,237	5	4.2998	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65842	A brief discovery of the dangerous principles of John Horne (a priest in Lin) and Thomas Moore junior both teachers of the people called Mooreians or Manifestarians, (and called by some free-willers or independants.) In answer to their book called A brief discovery of the people called Quakers, and a warning to all people to beware of them and of their dangerous principles, &c. Which book is a false narrative of two disputes, the one which they had with John Whitehead at Gedney in Lincoln-shire, and the other with Geo. Whitehead and Geo. Fox the younger, at Lin in Norfolke, both in the seventh moneth, 1659. Also priest Horns testimony against his brethren the priests. This is to go amonst the professors in England in discovery of the truth; ... By the truth which is in George Whitehead. John Whitehead. George Fox the younger.	Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.; Whitehead, John, 1630-1696. aut; Fox, George, d. 1661. aut	1659 (1659)	Wing W1896; ESTC R220960	30,510	44

they say that we said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in heaven yet still they say we meant but his Church either by his body or by the heavens and then they charge it upon us as a fundamental error Answ. Now they that discerne the body of Christ may see how these wise men of Babylon have confounded and stifled themselves in their own confusion one while saying that we would not be drawn to answer their question another while confessing that we said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in heaven and now when they can get nought against our words they charge us ignorantly with what we meant and here it appears they hold that Christ hath two bodies in telling of a mystical body and not receiving that as an answer that his body is the Church the fulness of him that filleth all in all so that from their words they would have Christ to have a body besides or distinct from the fulness of God when as the Scripture doth not say that Christ hath two bodies nor that his body is a body of flesh and bones without the blood in it in the Heavens as John Horne and Thomas Moore have told us for its not proper to say that a body of flesh and bones is in the Heavens as if it were in many places at once for Heavens are more then one and the body is one and hath many members 1 Cor. 12. 12. and this body is not carnal but spiritual which they who were carnal as these men are could not discern though the outward bodies of believers they might discern and yet this body of Christ is discerned by the believers who are led by the Spirit of God and its in the heavens above the clouds which they who are gazing abroad and looking carnally to see Christ they discern not the Lords body for they see not thorow the Clouds into the Heavens so Christ is taken out of their sight But Stephen who was full of the Holy Ghost saw the heavens opened and the Son of man on the right hand of his Father and John in the spirit saw into heaven and a door opened in heaven and Christs body is not distinct from the spirits of all men as it is distinct from carnal bodies as you imagine by your Question for the just men who are come unto mount Zion where the Lamb Reigneth in his glory I say their spirits rejoyce in him and the true Church in Christ which discerneth his body in his fulness is but one compleat body in the fulness of God which filleth all in all both in Heaven and Earth though you imagine two bodies of Christ And this know that what the Scriptures do declare of Christ and his body we own and the same that descended into the lower parts of the Earth is he that Ascended far above all Heavens that he might fill all things the same Christ that suffered in the body at Jerusalem who appeared in divers forms after his Resurrection and in the transfiguration before the same rose again and was taken in his Ascending out of the sight of them that gazed after him and is glorified in the same glory which he had with the Father before the world was John 17 and as he who is the Word became flesh so when the dayes of his flesh were finished he was translated into his own glory which he had with his Father from Eternity and so the second Adam is a quickening spirit and his body is spiritual not discerned by you whose minds are out from his spirit neither can his glory by which he was transfigured and is glorified be seen but by them who pass thorow death and follow him into the mount And now you who so much contend about the body of Christ we ask you this Question whether do you believe that the body of Christ which the Saints upon earth do discern and which the world cannot discern is a body of flesh and bones in the Heavens yea or nay seeing you own the believers or the Church to be a body of Christ and plead for another body of Christ distinct from them John Horn and Thomas Moore p. 5. Say that believers are members of his body namely his mystical body of his flesh and of his bones not flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone Answ. This is grosse confusion to say that believers are members of Christs flesh and bones and then to say they are not flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone as if Christ had two bodies of flesh and bones one of which the Saints are not members when the Apostle saith as much as they were flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone in his saying no man ever hated his own flesh but nourisheth it and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church for we are members of his body of his flesh of his bones Eph. 5. 30. J. Horn Tho. Moore bring 1 Thes. 4. 15. 16. and Phil. 3. 20. 21. where it is said Christ shall descend from Heaven not from but to his Church say they yea this of the Quakers denying that body glorified doth at once turn up by the roots all the faith of Christs appearing in the presence of God to mediate for us Ans Was there ever the like confusion and falshood uttere'd as these men do appear in a little before they say of the Quakers that they said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in Heaven and now charge us with denying that body glorified it were well they would be ashamed of their lies and confusion and as for that 1 Thes. 4. 15. Concerning the coming of the Lord from Heaven which these men aforesaid would blindly put afar of as to a coming of Christ with flesh and bones the Apostle saith we which are alive remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are a sleep so that coming of Christ the Saints who then were alive remained unto it and in that of Phil. 3. 20. 21. there it is said our conversation is in Heaven from whence also we look for the Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ so their conversation was in Heaven and there they looked for the Saviour they did not say their conversation was at a distance off above the Clouds from whence you look for a Christ like your selves but that he hath no blood in his body as you imagine whom we desire not the knowledge of and that your Faith which is not grounded in Christs appearing in you is to be turned up by the roots Again J. Horn and T. Moor do accuse us to be Reprobate concerning the Faith touching the Resurrection of the dead as chiefly they accuse us for affirming that the same body that dyes shall not be raised again and that George Fox would not be brought to say whether the spiritual body was ever dead but answered in general

if they believe that there was no blood left in Christs body when he was crucified And when T M. had pleaded for a body of flesh and bones in the Heavens he did not own that Christs body there is a carnal body see how flatly therein he contradicted his own words and the Priests doctrine for Priest Higginson and others affirmed that Christ is in Heaven with a carnal body but his body i● a Mistery which these men of Babylon can never know who are thus in confusion for Christs body is onely known with that by which God is seen and known who is not the Authour of their confusion but of peace And in page 12. T M. and J. H. speak as that Job said Behold God is great we know him not and to prove it bring Job 36 26. which is a sad mistake against Job for it was Elihu that spoke these words who was one of them that spoke against Joh Joh 35. 2 and 26. 1. for Job knew God when they that came against him did not but this their Accusation against Job is even like John Horns pleading for sin in a Letter to Eliz. Underwood for which he brought Eliphaz his words who was one of them that came against Job and sooke not the thing of God that was right where he said in Job 4. 1● and 15. 14 15. Behold he put no trust in his servants and his Angels he charged with folly which were none of Jobs words but his against whom the wrath of God was kindled Job 42. 7. and in like manner hath John Horn often belyed the servants of the Lord both in his Book and ●a●se Letters which he sent abroad in the Countrey to several that were brought to see his deceit and therefore are turned from him and many more of his lyes in several of his Letters against us I could produce i. occasioned to it In page 12. J. Horn and T. Moor say That it is rather a vertue to which we are advised not to be wise or think or guess above what is written but presently they begin to guess that which is not written and so confound themselves in their saying That there are indeed very probable arguments used to prove that that precious blood was reunited again with the body of Christ in the Resurrection But how shall any that are ignorant believe them or be instructed with their confusion For again they have to mend this their matter confuted these they call very probable arguments to prove that Christs blood was reunited again with the body of Christ for in contradiction to this in their Post-script they say But these being but probabilities at most and on the other side the Scriptures speaking of Christs Resurrection mentioning only that which was buried without any mention of his blood reunited So from hence we clearly see that J. Horn and some of his Company have had much reasoning about the blood of Christ and are in themselves confounded about it one while saying that there are very probable arguments to prove that it was reunited again with the body of Christ another while not owning that it was reunited again and with that they conclude See what blind guides these men are we might have received as good an answer from School-boyes about the blood of Christ as they might have guessed at it as J. Horn and T. Moor hath done and have told us that it is either in the body of Christ or not in it But mark how again they have guessed about it They say in page 12. Again that which was blood before may be in the changed state turned into pure life and spirit the thing or substance remaining Answ. Here again they have guessed and thought above that which is written and how can blood be turned into spirits and the substance of it remaining this is a meer dream and one of John Hornes divinations and it contradicts Moores words for he said that the life of Christ is not in his blood Again if the blood that Christ shed be turned into pure spirits and life what is his body of flesh and bones turned into or what reason is there that his blood should be altered more then his flesh and bones but all this confusion and dirty stuff of John Hornes and Thomas Moores is seen thorow and made manifest with the true light in which they that walk shall feel the blood of Christ which cleanseth from all sin and know that the spirit the water and blood which bear record in the earth agree in one and the blood is the life which is in Christ whose body is not a body without the blood in it as these dreamars aforesaid imagines and as the Prophet said we witness that by the blood of the Covenant the prisoners are sent out of the pit which can hold no water Again in pag. 14. We are falsly accused with denying what the Scripture asserts about the body of Christ and the Resurrection of mens bodies and about the knowledge of Christ Answ. Here we see plainly that this John Horne and Thomas Moore do love lying rather then to speak righteousness for we own what the Scripture asserts about the body of Christ and the Resurrection but deny their imaginations and here again I shall bring their own words to confute them in pag. 5. they have confessed that we said of Christs body that the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in Heaven which might have stopt their mouths from accusing us as they did and as for our not asserting that the same earthly bodies of men shall rise again they have in their post-script confessed that the raised body in the resurrection shall not be flesh and blood to which I say then not that body which is sown or buried for that is a body of flesh and blood Again touching Christs appearance after his resurrection when he shewed his Disciples his hands and his feet we do not believe that his body then had no blood in it for he then did eat before them of the broiled fish and honny comb which they gave him which is nourishment to both flesh and blood Luke 24. 41. 42. and the blood is the life of that which hath need of such outward nourishment yea the life of all flesh is the blood Gen. 9. 4. 5. Levit. 17. 14. but as Christ is Ascended into his Fathers glory in Heaven he is in a further state for he hath not need now of such outward nourishment as broiled fish or a hony comb for he is in the same glory which he had with the Father before the world began and as for the Saints also their bodies in the resurrection shall as far exceed these our earthen bodies in glory as the glory of the Sun Moon and Stars do exceed the glory of Birds Beasts and Fishes but the mystery of these things is for ever sealed as in Parables from such blind guides as these aforesaid who have long abused the

truth of Christ In p. 14. John Horne and Moore have affirmed The Scriptures to be the Medium of Faith from John 17. 20. where it s said neither pray I for these alone but for them also which shall believe on me through their word and Acts 17. 11. 12. of the Bereans searching the Scriptures c. Answ. There is no such Scripture as saith that the Scriptures are the Medium of Faith for they through whose word many believed were not Ministers of the Letter but of the spirit and their Word was before the Letter or writing was and it came in Spirit and in Power and this Word which they Preached was nigh people even in their hearts Rom. 10. And as for the Bereans they first received the Word with all readiness of minde and then searched the Scriptures whether these things were so so it was the Word which brought them to believe and to search the Scriptures and so we say the Scriptures are truely to be believed and fulfilled but that which brings any truely to believe and fulfill them is Christ the Word the Author and finisher of faith unto whom they would not come for life who thought they had Eternal life in the Scriptures Joh. 5. 39 40. In pag. 15 John Horne and Thomas Moore have accused John Whitehead with saying that the Apostles did not bring light to men but onely pointed to what they had before Answ. John Whitehead doth witness against them for perverting his words as it hath been examined the words are not so affirmed by him but this we say that the Apostles did not bring another light to people then that which had enlightned them before they Preacht to them and though the light was more in the Apostles then in them they Preacht to yet it was the same in nature in both though known in several measures and they who will not own the light in the least measure of it in them they must not know the greater nor the glory which the light of Christ shining in the heart gives the knowledge of in them that receive it Again Horne and Moore say Indeed this is a main piece of corrupt Doctrine that we Preach that all have the light of Christ in them and that that is whatsoever reproves any sin in men Ans. Here they might as well have accused Christ and the Apostles for using corrupt Doctrine for Christ saith I am the light of the world and John said of him that was the true light which enlightneth every man that comes into the world and that which may be known of God is manifest in them who are in unrighteousness and like not to retain God in their knowledge Rom. 1. and the grace of God which bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men and this is the free gift of God which if it were not given to all men then wherefore shall the wicked be condemned and what is it in them that must leave them without excuse and who can you shew us that have not a light of Christ in them to reprove them when they have done evil And you have again here wickedly wronged us for we do not affirm that whatsoever reproves any sin is the light of Christ but whatsoever makes manifest things that are reproved is light and the light reproves every sin But such as you that are in deceit and out of the light do sometimes reprove sin when you live in it your selves but the light of Christ in you will reprove you for it Again in p. 16. You John Horn and Thomas Moore say That this way of ours exposes men to follow their own spirits which we represent as a candle in every man Answ. This is false for our way exposes men not to follow their own spirits nor sparkes of their own kindling as you say but to follow the light of Christ which lighteth the spirit of a man and makes it become the candle of the Lord that it enlightens the inward parts Another of your lies against us is where in pag. 17. you accuse George Whitehead with deriding at mens faith in the death and bloodshed of Christ beyond the Sea for they who truely have faith and hope through Christs sufferings which reacheth within the vail that is to say Christs flesh that faith we own as knowing the Word of it to be in the heart that we have it not to fetch beyond the Sea nor from above nor from beneath but it s nigh in the heart and in the mouth And to our question which was whether the light that lighteth every man be a natural light or a spiritual light You John Horne and T. Moore answers pag. 17. 18. That that light is Christ and the light with which he lighteth men is both natural and spiritual Reply Here again you are taken in your own snare for in your saying the light is both natural and spiritual mark it is not the lights are both natural and spiritual but the light is so here you could not prove one light that is both natural and spiritual and contrary to the Scriptures have you spoken for in Christ was life and the life was the light of men which is not natural but spiritual therefore this your errour may lie upon you In pag. 18. You say That for so much as all men receive not Christ and his light therefore all have not his light in them Answ. This is a poor Argument the Spirit of the Lord and the grace of God hath appeared in many who have resisted it and not received it and a measure of it is in such to condemn them as the Kingdom of God was in the Scribes and Pharisces and yet they received it not nor Christ when they hated him And to that of Isai. 8. 20. where it is said there is no light in them John Horne saith the word in the Hebrew is sometimes used to signifie the morning and we have read it no morning in stead of no light but then saith he Christ is called the morning Star so that if there be no morning light in man there is none of his light who is the morning light Answ. Here his ignorance appears again for the light of Christ shines in darkness in some before the morning and that led some to the arising of the Day-star in their Hearts and so the light of Christ who is the morning light to some appears as a Candle in the darkness to others and is not the morning light to them until they by it see the morning in them and the light which hath shined in darkness arising out of darkness so that the light of Christ is both the evening light and the morning light Page 19. Again John Horn and Thomas Moore have accused us with telling Mr. Townsend as they call him That the light was wholly departed from him Answ. Herein have you impudently belyed us for the words against Townsend are not so spoken but that from the light of God in his

people are overcome and led captive by the Quakers and say John Horn Thomas Moore It s through their own carelesness and formality or also through their Teachers they are not so instructed as to be able to examine and discern them Through their carelesness and weakness therethrough in their understanding of the things of God and conceiting themselves to know and be able to judge and discern of spirits they neglect the helpfulness and gifts of brethren as also the advice of their Teachers and instructors that have the oversight of them and spoken to them the Word of the Lord Answ. Oh be ashamed to see what a bad crop is brought forth what have you been Teachers so long and taking peoples mony for this that notwithstanding they have owned you and your Doctrine and followed you so long that yet they should bring forth no better fruits then these as carelesness and formality and conceitedness and neglect and weakness in understanding the things of God ye have sown but to the fleshly part and that 's the cause you have such a corrupt crop And now we see your Kingdom is near falling who are accusing your fellow Teachers for not instructing the people so as to be able to examine and discern us and the people are led captive already who brings forth such bad fruits as these and had you spoken the Word of the Lord to them and they had believed it surely they would have brought forth better fruits but because you have but stoln from your neighbours much of what you have spoke and added your own imaginations thereto and hath run but the Lord hath not sent you that is the cause you have not profited the people though you have believed what you have spoke and have contended much for your Doctrine yet ye receiving it not from the Lord it was without life and power and so was not effectual to the people John Horn Thomas Moore Oh that all both Ministers and people would yet be awakened to search and try our wayes and to make straight steps to our goings Answ. Yes ye had need to be awakned indeed for it is manifest that ye both Teachers and people have been asleep in the night of thick darkness and you have brought forth night works neglecting Christ the salvation of God and abusing his tru●h taking no pleasure therein but rather in slothfulness formality covetousness pride and vanity in apparrel and many other things and Teachers not instructing people so as they might be able to examine and discern such as come unto them Ye sluggish Shepherds who are yet to be awakened what have you taken peoples mony and goods for all this time was it for your sleeping and dreaming awake awake ye sluggards and own the light of Christ which he hath enlightned you withal and that will shew you your dreaming and the deeds of the night and that will teach you to make straight steps to your goings and to search and try your wayes John Horn Thomas Moore Look to your selves whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the Doctrine of Christ hath not God he that abideth in the Doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son Answ. Then it is manifest that you Thomas Moore and John Horn have not God and out of your own mouths ye shall be Judged for in the 20. pag. of your Book you speak of the heavy Judgement of God that he hath ordered to you to punish you for your neglect of Christ the Salvation of God and the truth of him so long abused by you now it is plain to any that have any true understanding that such as neglect Christ the Salvation of God and abuse his truth that they transgresse and abide not in the Doctrine of Christ and this you have confessed your selves to be guilty of and now your blindness and folly and confusion and wickedness is discovered by the spirit and wisdom of God which abideth in us who abide in the Doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son Many more of your lies and slanders and confusion we could shew you in your Book but that they are not worth the mentioning And think not with your selves that because we reckon not up the rest of your accusations and railing against us that therefore we consent to them as truth for we know that the Lord God will judge and punish you for your perverting the truth and your railing against us and slandering and belying us called Quakers as you have done both in your Book and in many Papers of John Hornes that were posted up against us in Lin and this know that the Lord God of power hath by his mighty power and wisdom armed us to make War against you and to manifest your deceits who are found to be forgers of lyes and deceivers and in enmity against the living truth of God and the longer you proceed therein against us and the truth witnessed by us the more will you be confounded and your folly made manifest that so the honest hearted will begin to loath you and you had better have put your mouths in the dust and been silent then to have blasphemed against the truth of God and against his people as you have done leave your hypocrisie and deceit wherewith you blind the people and feed them no longer with your dreams lyes and stoln dead words least the Lord cut you off in your iniquity for a time of withering is already come upon you And as for you who are the Hearers of the said John Horn and Thomas Moor our Souls pitty you knowing you are under a vail of thick darkness and bondage as we can no otherwise conclude seeing your leaders are tryed and found so much in ignorance and confusion and we wish rather then you would remain under their darkness and deceits that you would come back to the witness of God which hath in many of you been often moving but often hath been quenched through yielding to the sleights and deceits of men and striving to get more into knowledge then into the life and power and now you are but feeding death and seeking the living among the dead while ye go to them for help who are out of the power of God in their own imaginations wherein they are confounded and if ever you come to the Fathers House and there to find the spiritual nourishment you must first return to the light of the Lord in you which you have transgressed and grieved when often it hath appeared against your ungodliness And we would not have you think much against us because we have here dealt plainly by your Teachers in discovering them for we were first occasioned to give forth this because of their false railing book against us or else we had not thus appeared in publick against them and compare this and their book together and you may soon see if you read them sincerely how deservedly we have dealt by them more then they have by us for we sent Queries to John Horn and Thomas Moor in manuscript for them to answer not expecting they would have wronged us as they have done in Print And therefore if they in like manner do again proceed against us in Print we purpose in the Lord further to have their deceits discovered publickly that the truth which is professed and dearly owned by us may be cleared and its enemies have the fruits of their own doings Post-script AND seeing that ye called Moorians hold forth That flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God yet flesh and bones may we ask you these Questions If Elijahs flesh and bones could enter into Gods Kingdom when he was taken up and if his blood could not then when and where and how and by whom was his blood taken and separated from his flesh and bones And what is become of his blood And what is it that hinders the blood that it may not enter into Gods Kingdom as well as the flesh and bones which ye say may Is the transgression of the blood greater then the transgression of the flesh and bones And shall the flesh and bones be redeemed and delivered from corruption and shall not the blood What is the Cause For although the Lord doth what he please yet doth he do any thing without a Cause And whether do you own that Doctrine that when Christ appeared amongst the Disciples after his Resurrection when the doors were shut John 20. 19. that then his body being spiritualized it glided in at the key-hole of the door Which doctrine Thomas Moor sen hath formerly preached as some hath affirmed who heard him And where do the Scriptures say That flesh and bones may in herit the Kingdom of God And where you John Horn and Thomas Moor in page 16. say That Sathan doubtless may reprove of some sins and press to some duties Now have you not here shewn your selves to be Ministers of Sathan and not of Christ And we ask you what duties or any things that are duties doth Sathan press men to Answer directly or let shame cover you which at length will come upon you for your deceits THE END