Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	father_n	jesus_n	son_n	14,487	5	5.3429	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A62893	The Muggletonians principles prevailing being an answer in full to a scandalous and malicious pamphlet, intituled A true representation of the absurd and mischevious principles of the sect called Muggletonians : herein the aforesaid principles are vindicated, and proved to be infallibly true : and the author of that libel, his scandalous title and subject proved as false to truth, as light is to darkness, and that he knows no more what the true God is, nor what the right devil is, nor any true principle or foundation of faith, for all his great learning he so much bosts of, then those Jews that put the Lord of life to death, for learned and taught reason is but natural, and so falls short of the glory of God, as will appear in the following discourse / by T.T.	Tomkinson, Thomas, 1631-1710?	1695 (1695)	Wing T1840; ESTC R18719	47,859	79

2.14 then he speaks as in Referance to his God-head and when he saith That he can of himself do nothing and the like Isa 45.15 21 22 23. ●●●pared then he speaks as in relation to his Manhood God then hideing himself in that Manhood Again if it be granted That Christ is God and Man then it must be acknowledged That where Christ is there the Father is John 14. ● 9 Gal. 1.4 1 ●et 2.24 and Christ affirms it himself saying That he that had him had the Father and he that had seen him had seen the Father Now from all this doth it not plainly appear That he was the Father himself as well as the Son And John saith John 1.1 Verse 1● Mat● 1.20 That in the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God And this Word was God and that God or Word became Flesh Then surely that one God was Father as well as Son unless you can prove there were Two Gods or with the Arians That Christ was one with the Father in Union but not in Essence and if so then every Believer is as much God as Christ is But you have your Two Gods one of which you say took Flesh the other did not here you divide the Sub stance What a Monster do you here make of God for you had before Christs Incarnation those Two Gods in Heaven a Father God and a Son God and that Son you say The Father Begot before all Worlds and then was begot again in this World so your God the Son was Twice Begot or Twice Made Is this good Sence is this your Wisdom is this good Divinity nay without all Controversy this is quite contrary to Scripture and to sober Reason also Z●ch 1● 9 Deu● 6. ● Isaiah 42.8 48.11 Psal 103.20 Heb. 1.6 For was there ever any more than one God and did not the Prophet Isaiah say That God would not give his Glory to another and yet it is said That all the Angels of God should Worship Christ Isaiah 45.23 Phil. 2.10 and that to him every Knee should bow and that not only in Earth but in Heaven also Re●●l 22.6 Compar'd with Verse 14. Who then could share with him for he was the Lord God of all the Prophets testified by the Angel unto John which Angel bid John worship God even that God of the Prophets which was no other but Jesus Christ Therefore it is said I Jesus have sent my Angel and behold I come quickly c. There is no other God to come no other Father no other Resurrection and Life 1 John 2.23 5.7 2 John 9. Acts 4.12 no other Name or Power but Jesus Christ our Lord tho Men or Angels should gainsay it as I have abundantly shew'd in a Treatis intituled None but Christ Moreover John 17.3 to prosecute this Principle a little further here because it is our Life and Foundation Principle and it is impossible for any Man to be saved that shall presumptuously dispise this Doctrin of Jesus being the everlasting Father after so plain a Discovery I am now to inquire how you Trenitarians Sosinians and Arians bring Christ in for your Saviour You say That by the Fall of Adam all Men had incurred Damnation and so were become God the Father's Debtors and the Father standing upon Justice would not be Reconciled with them without the full payment of that Debt as Life for Life Now say you the Father was so far pleased as to send his Son to pay the full Debt And say you this Son came voluntarily and paid the Debt and by this means satisfied the Wrath of his Father and so purchased your Life by his Ransom Wherefore if it be so as you Teach That the Father is distinct from that Son then are you not beholding to the Father at all For take this Similitude for the Elustration thereof Suppose I owe a Man a 1000 Pounds or more and I have not wherewith to pay him and he will not forgive me any of the Debt or I must either pay it all or to Prison there to remain till I have paid the utmost Farthing The Son of this my Creditor sees the Strait I am in Commiserates my Case steps in voluntarily and pays the Father the full Debt and so sets me at Liberty Now in this Case who am I most beholding to the Father or the Son not to the Father at all for he was for Justice and I wanted Mercy The Son therefore was my Friend and to him only am I bound and him only am I to Love Serve and Obay This is the very plain Case Phil. 3.8 Ephe. 6.24 1 Cor. 16.22 1 Tim. 6.15 Revel 5.12 Jonn 17.5 2 Cor 5.19 2 John 9. John 8.36 1 Pet 1.19 2 Pet. 6. Heb. 2.14 it is the Son Christ Jesus that all the Elect Seed of Adam are beholding to and not to any Father that either is or ever was distinct from him But the Father of Christ was his own Godhead Spirit which through his eternal Love to the Seed of his own Body was moved to change his Spiritual Body which was his everlasting Son into Flesh to the end he might be capable to dye and shed his Blood for their Redemption as also that he might have Power to raise the Seed of the Serpent to a Second and eternal Death for their Cruelty acted against him and his Elect Seed Therefore his coming in Flesh was foretold by Isaiah and all the other Prophets Isaiah 9.6 and that the Son that was to be born of a Virgin should in time be called the mighty God and everlasting Father Now at this time this Prophesy is fulfilled and by this Commission of the Spirit he is both called and known to be the high and mighty God and everlasting Father This Scripture is possitive and shall command all primative Scriptures to bow down to it Thus the Scriptures are clear to all that are appinted to Salvation that Christ Jesus is that one only and alone true God and everlasting Father To this the Holy Patriacks agree observe their Testimony which is consonant to Scripture being grounded upon Enoch's Prophesy Sim shall be glorified when the great Lord God of Issrael appeareth on the Earth as a Man to save Adam for God taking a Body upon him namely of Flesh and Bone and eating with Men shall save Men. Ye shall see God in the shape of a Man said Zebulon he is the Saviour he is the Father of Nations he that Believeth in him shall certainly Reign in Heaven saith Levy and Judeth God shall appear and dwell amongst Men upon Earth to save Israel the Highest shall visit the Earth eating and drinking as Man with Man he shall save Israel That is God hiden in Man At the last Day we shall rise every one of us to his own Scepter saith Benjamin Worshiping the King of Heaven which appeared in the base Shape of a Man and as

behold him as he is in his full Glory Deut. 10.6 If God was willing at any time that some of his Servants the Prophets should behold him he was compelled to vale his Glory so as that their frail Nature might be in a capasity to behold him And this we further affirm That we can sooner find in Scripture that our God hath and ever had a distinct Body of himself than you can find in Scripture a Trinity of Persons in one Godhead for if you find Three distinct Persons then you must find Three Bodies and where then is your Spirit God become 4. Again is not the Scriptures clear That the Fathers of old did see God Gen. 17.3 Exod. 24.10 Isa 6.5 John 35.9 Exod. 33.23 and ever beheld him in Form and Shape of a Man Will you say that God assumed that Shape and yet had no Shape of his own this is to make God a Conniver It is no wonder as I said before that you dispise John Reeve for saying that the Lord spake to him to the hearing of the Ear for you do not believe that God hath any Tongue to speak at all For say you a Spirit hath no Flesh and hath no Body For say you Body and Spirit are Two contrary things As the Scripture saith that God hath a Body Dan. 7.9 Revel 10.1 1.14 John 6. ● Psal 94.9 N●m● 12.8 Isa 6● 5 so it attributes to this Body Hands Eyes Face Nose Mouth Ears Arms Leggs Breast Heart Back c. And yet must he have never a Body this is clearly to deny Scripture for the Scripturian saith That God hath a Body but the Antescripturian saith That God hath neither Body Parts or Shape but yet is an infinite vast God filling all things and is in all Places at one and the same time and so can neither Assend nor Descend Come nor Go but is everywhere at once as your great Augustin saith This is yours and the Worlds monstrous God Are those the Men that are so capable of Argument if we should be as ignorant in the Scriptures as you it were no matter if our Tongues should cleave to the Roof of our Mouths I wonder you are not ashamed to pretend to Scripture do you believe the Scripture Certain I am that there are many Doctors of your Church that doth not believe them at all for instance hereof there is one of your Doctors namely Dr. More This Man in one of his Books called his Cabila doth little less than give the Scripture the Ly for treating upon the Creation of Man by Moses saith That the Scriptures doth not always speak according to the exactness of Truth but according to their Appearance in Sense and the vulgar Opinion and he quotes Chrisostim Bernard and Aquinus as holding the same things and instances it as to the Creating of Adam and Eve Saying thus God hath no Figure or Shape altho Moses saith he hath he only permits the Ignorant and Vulgar People to Believe so it being his Prudence and Policy so to do Now is not this Odious for what Prudence is it to Flatter Dissemble and Deceive the People for must Gods Prophets be but like Polititians of State pretending one thing and acting another Again this Man brings in Moses speaking thus God took of the Dust of the Ground wrought it with his Hands into such a temper that it was fit to make the Body of a Man which when framed then comes near to it with his Mouth and breathed into his Nostrils the Breath of Life And when God had made a Woman of one of Adam 's Ribs he takes her by the Hand and brought her to Adam so when Adam was awaked Ge● 2● 21 he found his Dream to be true for he dream'd that God took a Woman out of him for God stood by him with a Woman in his Hand Now it is true says this Doctor Moses spakes in this manner to satisfy the rude Multitude who was ever ready to think that God was in Forme and Shape as they were and thus Moses complyed with their Humour and permited them to belive so yet saith he it is a Contradiction to the Idia of God to have Figure and Shape Now what say you to this is not this giving Moses the Lie Moses you see would permit People to believe That God was in the Form of a Man Now why will not you permit us to believe so Moses did not count this Doctrine a mischievous Principle as you do but you with this Man set your selves against Moses and against the Scriptures they are counted no other than a Lie with you Now it is clear by this that many of you Doctors are stark blind Athists your Protestant Church is now grown as blind with Age almost as your Fathers the Papists and as Atheistical as one of the Popes who said That that Fable of Jesus Christ had brought their Church great Riches And one of that Church said to me that the Scriptures were but balderdash Stuff Now as to that saying of Christ's to his Disciples That a Spirit had not Flesh and Bone as he had it was only to inform them that there was no such Spirit as the World imagined that could be seen that had no Body for Eyes of Flesh must have a Substance for its Object Therefore said Christ handle me and see for I have a Body a Substance of very Flesh and Bone John 20 2● and they felt and believed him to be their Lord and God For Christ from hence would have them for ever after to know that all Spirits whither of God Men or Angels are always invisible for it is the Body that is visible for the Soul that is in it is always invisible which Spirit comprehends all visible things yet cannot Live Act or Operate without its Body And so much for that Principle Again Page 19th you Representor object against that most divine and misterious Principle of God the Fathers becoming Flesh and call this a Doctrine quite contrary to Scripture and produce those Scriptures for Proof against us namely that God sent his Son made of a Woman And the Word was made Flesh but say you there is not one Word That the Father was made Flesh CHAP. VIII ANSWER IT is confessed by us Gal. 4.4 John 5.26 10.18 Epb. 5.2 that the Scripture saith That God sent his Son as also that Christ came of himself and that he laid down his Life of himself Now if he laid down his Life of himself then where was the Father but in himself for it was his divine Spirit that was the Father by which he could lay down his Life by that self and by that self could take it up again For God transmuteing his spiritual Body into Flesh so gained the Godhead and humane Nature together Heb. 1.3 and so hath a Twofold Self Humane and Divine Therefore when he saith he hath Power of himself to lay down his Life Titus

quench the Thirst of Sin for their Silver is become Dross their Wine is mix'd with Water of a standing Poole Isaiah 1.22 John 4.14 This will not pass currant with us for no VVine to us like the VVine of the Spirit no VVater to us but the VVater of Life no Balme for us but what is in Gilliad in one Personal-God-Man Christ Jesus blessed for ever that will be accepted of with us the only true Christians in the World at this Day Therefore take you all your Books and Learning to yourselves we have but Three to Read to wit the Prophets the Apostles and the Witnesses of the Spirit In these is fulness of Perfection for the Light and Life of their Words shining in our Hearts is the Rule Prop Stay and Guide of our Faith which is but one and this one Faith hath one God of a single Person or Substance for its Object to pitch it self upon and not a Trinity of Persons or Substance but Father Son and Holyghost is one single Substance and no more which cannot be denyed neither by Scripture or sober Reason for First Was not the Eternal god-head-God-Head-Spirit the everlasting Father Secondly Was not that glorious Body wherein God the Father did eternally Dwell The eternal Son Thirdly And was not that powerful Word which proceeded from his god-head-God-Head-Spirit through his glorious Mouth the Holyghost or holy Spirit by which he made the Worlds and governeth all things Is not this Trinity in Unity and Unity in Trinity Heb. 1.3 John 1.13 Ephes 4.5 Isa 45.21 22. Chap. 43.10 more agreeable to the Scripture of Truth then any other Trinity to all Men that acknowledge but one eternal Being and no more Now your Trinity of Persons will neither be made to agree with Scripture Reason nor Sence so that your striving to explain it doth but the more darken the Sence about your Airy God and you are quite lost in your Definition and now of late more than ever Are you made a confounded Babel and your Clargie doth clash one against another which doth make your Hearers begin to stager as well it may For 1st One Party of your Church doth Hold and Teach that God is Three distinct Persons and but one Substance which is a Contradiction 2ly The other Party of your Church Teacheth That God hath not only Three distinct Persons but Three distinct Substances likewise and from hence doth boldly charge the Homansion or one Substance with the Heresy of Sabilism as they call it 3dly The contrary Party makes their Rejoynder again and chargeth the other Party with holding of a plurality of Gods For say they if there be Three Substances then there is Three Gods which is true enough 4thly Again the adverse Party Replys saying That if there be Three Persons there must be Three Substances which is true enough too And they give the Reason why they are to hold Three Substances as well as Three Persons it being a forst-put For say they there is now a greater Necessity than ever there was to Hold and Maintain Three distinct Substances as well as Three Persons Otherwise say they we are in great Danger to loose the Catholick Faith by the revival of the Heresie of Sabalus which walks publickly abroad tho under the Disguise of a new Name And therefore if we do not allow the God-Head intirely to be Three distinct Substances as well as Three distinct Persons then comes in Sabalism And there 's an end then say they of the Trinity 5thly To this the other old dark Light Replies saying That if by Retaining the old Words of Three Persons and one Substance there is Danger of loosing the Catholick Faith it must be lost out of the Catholick Church And the Revolt by Sabalism say they must be both the most lasting and the most general Apostatise that ever was foretold or feared should happen to the Christian World But say they we hope wee need not to be frighted out of our Religion And thus Revel 18.10 you see what a Confusion is fallen upon you your Babilon is now crying out Alas Alas Did not the Prophets and Apostles speak of these Things Now is fulfilled that Saying of David's to the full Divide their Tongues O Lord Psal 55.9 for I have seen Violence in the City Doth not this your Division tend to Confusion Isa 11.11 15. or is it not Confusion it self in a superlative Degree For tho you be divided yet our God is not divided 1 John 5 7.20 but is one Yesterday to Day and for ever For I demand First How can Christ be called the greate Heb. 13.8 Titus 2.13 1 Tim. 1.17 6.12 the High and Mighty God if he hath Two other Gods to share with him And Secondly How can Christ be Eternal in your Creed if he were begotten Thirdly And how can that which receives a Being from another ever be made equal with that which hath its being of it self alone Certainly whatever you Trinitarians say to the contrary yet it is evident that you make Christ no more than a titular God the very same with John Biddle that you so much disown in your Pamphlet But I cannot see any great Difference between you I am sure you are as much out of the Way of Truth as he For said John Bidle Christ is our Lord and God But how Why said he not Really but Apelitive as Magistrates are called Gods and so he makes him God by Deputation as to Title being God not in Nature but in Name and so is subordinate to God Now do not you do so too for you make the Son but to be begotten And if you will make him God yet he must be divided from the Father and Holyghost Now this is certain that if there be a Father distinct from that blessed Body of Christ it must then be as John Bidle said and therefore it is that John Bidle as well as Arius and S●sinus make him but Man because they would have but one single God But you if you make him God yet you will divide him from the Father and from the Holyghost and so at the best you make him but a Third part God And whereas you are so bold as to condemn Sabulus and Noetus for worshiping one personal God under the Names of Father Son and Holyghost condemning and judging them for Broachers of Heresy how will you free yourselves from this Crime As also those Counsels of Arians and Trenitarians as cursed them and their Principles together with those Counsels and Sinods on both sides judging and condemning each other with deadly Malice as your Church History doth shew What were those the Church of God No. But when God gathers up his Jewels many of those that have been judged Hereticks will rise Saints Mal. 3.15 16 17 18. Acts 24.14 and many of those that your Churches have Canonized for Saints will rise Devils For no Persecutors of Conscience will escape the Stroke If any

it is so with you I would advise you to leave off playing the Hipocrite and forbear telling your Hearers That any of them will be Damned For if there be but one Seed and that Seed the Seed of Adam then all will be saved so deal plainly to your People and Preach to them general Redemption and prove it from Paul's Words where he saith That as in Adam all dye 1 Cor. 15.22 so in Christ shall all be made alive But will yea or nill yea this we must tell you That there is a Seed Rom. 9.27 Mat. 9.13 namely Cain and his Off-spring that never fell in Adam but in the Serpent-Angel and so are uncapable of ever being Redeemed by Christ 2. Pet. 2.12 John 17.9 1 Tim. 2.4 Matt. 18.11 10.6 Rom. 11.26 For when on Earth he never prayed for them For tho he would have all Men saved yet it is but all those that fell in Adam that he hath any spiritual Salvation for This is that which makes that Seed fret themselves Mal. 3.15 and call it a mischevious Principle and it will prove sad to that mischevious Man that Condemns true Prophesy and the true Believers thereof as likewise Isa 5.20 that justifieth the Seed of the Wicked to be the Seed of Adam who was the Seed of God Your farther Accusation Runs thus In Pag. 20. You say That there is a Devil distinc● from Man and would seem to prove it from that Devil that tempted Christ which you would have to be a bodily-Spirit and you scoff at wicked Imagination being the Devil And from hence you query from that Scripture Mark 5.4 Saying Doth Imagination break Chains c. And that their affirming That Ely should be Christ 's Representative This you call all Fable CHAP. XI ANSWER IF you will have a Devil without a Body you must go seek out a new-found World to sind out your unknown Devil The Works of this Devil are manifest and yet you cannot know him for is there any Wickedness in this World but what flows from that Carnal Spirit of Men and Women Revel 18.2 Matt. 15.19 Gal. 5.19 who is a Kingdom of Wickedness in that Tophet or Bodies of theirs for it is the Heart where the Court is kept and is the only Nussery of all evil Spirits conciv'd there by Imagination Oh! the depth of this Imagination in this its bottomless Pit and the uncleanness of the same Do but compare Scripture Gen. 6.5 Jam. 4.5 6. Isaiah 32.6 Jer. 17.9 and in it we may find a very Pit-Devil All the Imaginations of Mans Heart saith God are Evil and continually Evil What 's that but the Devil And hath not this continual Work its first Formation in the Heart being its own Work from its own Seed and its Worke is in this manner following For this is to be minded That as the Spirit of Faith in the Heart of Man is the Womb or Mother for the Revelation of Faith to beget a Son out of the Seed of Faith So likewise the Seed of Reason is the Womb or Mother for Imagination to beget a Son or familier Spirit James 1 15. 2.15 16. James 4.1 for all evil Spirits are conceived in the Heart If Envy be conceived then Murder is brought forth if Lust be conceived then Adultery is brought forth and if a familiar Spirit is conceived then it brings forth such a Spirit as speaks forth Motional Voices Jer. 23.16 Isaiah 8.19 Deut. 18.10 and if by its Transformation into Angelical Light then as false Prophets it produces Visions Revelations and internal Voices within them Now this familiar Spirit is nothing else but a Witch so that when it Motions forth Spiritual or Religious Matters Eph. 6.12 then it becomes spiritual Witchcraft and when it Motions forth upon a Temporal Account then it becomes natural Witchcraft The one or other of these Witchcrafts almost all the World lies under Therefore it follows That this familiar Spirit that is begot by Imagination doth sometimes produce such a Voice in it self as if some Spirit without them did appear to them without Bodies and Reveal things to them 1 Sam. 28.1 as it was by the Witch of Endor and as Samuel spoke in Saul's Consience This hath been a common thing in all Ages and Gilt of Conscience can quickly quine an Object and produce a motional Voce thinking it is without the Body whenas all is but from the Familiar Spirit And when this Familiar Spirit or new begot Wisdom is quickened in the evil Heart Exod. 1.10 Jer. 4.22 it grows from Strength to Strength from one degree of Knowledg to a further degree of evil Knowledg and evil Wisdom Creating to it self such things as God never Created as an immortal Soul or Spirit without a Body And it hath made it so as that it can appear in any Shape Form or Likeness whether it be God Man Devil or Angel All are made Spirits without Bodies Also it hath Created to it self such a Devil as can whip into Man and out of Man at his Pleasure And when Sin is Commited then all the Evil is charged upon that boddilis Devil And yet Men must be hanged for Murder whenas they say it is a bodilis Devil that is the Murtherer or temps to Murther And more then this the Devil must be chained in Hell-fire and yet a bodilis Spirit and in all places at one time where he can tempt all the World to Sin and yet no body can see him and yet he is in Hell-fire in Chains but may be called out at the Pleasure of a Witch This is the Worlds Bugbare Devil and the pitchy Darkness all the World lies under Thus we see what Fruits the Imagination of Reason brings forth And whereas you scoffingly ask Mark 5 4. whether Imagination breaks Chains pointing to that saying of the Gospel Here you shew your Ignorance that cannot distinguish between Devils in Nature and Devils produced by Accidents in Nature Nay you know nothing at all of neither the one nor the other and so make no difference of their Actions For tho Distempers in nature are devilish yet not damned Devils For this we sind that Christ never called distracted or mad Men Devils for these may come through some extraordinary Fright Grief or Loss and in some may increase to that strength as to break Iron Chains For having broke the Brain the Seat of Reason is quite out of order and so makes them more strong then when their Reason was in Order And Christ never Judged and Condemned these but cast those fiery Distempers and divilish Diseases out and restored them to their right Mind So that it is not the Distracted or Unreasonable that Christ Condemned but the Learned and Sensible and Prudent Man even such as commit Murder for Conscience sake and condemn true Prophesy from their conceated Wisdom of high-flown piercing Reason This is evident throughout all the Scriptures especially

Bishops Then must them Books and Traditional Reports be viewed by the Learned now made Bishops and what Agreed and Aquiest with their Principles was counted Apostolical and what did not agree Revel 2.2 was rejected and counted Heresy or else they Translated them falsly playcing down some things of their Sayings and leaving others out that made against them And when any Man was by these established Bishops Judged or Accused for Heresy tho he lived before their Days then all his Books must either be Currupted or Burn'd for they must be made to speak quite contrary to what they did in several things on purpose to make those Authors the more Contemptible For it was ever so that all that are Non-Commissionated Ministers of God and such as head an Anty-Church are for hideing Truth from the People as the Papists do the Scriptures to the end they may keep up their fleshly Honour so that there is but little known and received in the World at this Day as well as heretofore but the universal common Opinion Therefore it is that your National and Traditional Churches doth so sound forth their own Triumphs raise heaps of Authors of the First Centuries as agreeing with their Catholick Principles Crying Antiquity Church-Visability famous Men are on our Side c. When as the Truth on 't is all is but Clamour and Noise for many of your Authors are meer Forgeries and Lies For Instance 1. There be several Books that have the Name of such Mens Works as were never their Works as Abdyus Bishop of Babilon is said by some of your Catalogue Makers to live in the Days of Christ others say that he knew their great Church-Historian Egisipus that lived near Two Hundred Years after Now the one of these must be a Ly and they make the Substance of this Book to be of curious Talk with Bodilis or Infernal Devils which is a mear Roman Forgery 2. There is also that which is called Saint James the Apostles Leturgie which hath a Prayer in it for all that live in Monastries and yet there was none built of some Hundreds of Years after the Apostles Days 3. And that Egisipus before spoken of hath Five Books under his Name But it is said by some of your Church Writers that Ambrose that Roman-Church-Bishop who lived in the Year 380. was not only the Traslator but the Author of them Books which is like enough for he was not chosen Bishop for his Goodness but for his Greatness even as one of the Dukes of Savoy was chosen Pope for his Greatness sake as your Church History doth shew 4. These Corruptions have been very Common and very Antient for Dionisius Bishop of Corinth who lived about the Year of Christ Two Hundred complained sadly of his being abused in this Nature Therefore said he in one of his Books if that Book was his I wrote several Epistles but the Messengers of Satan hath sown them with Tares pulling away some things and puting to other some for whom said he Condemnation is laid up And as there was these Forgeries and Corruptions aforesaid so likewise there is many of your other great Authors which you would make Apostolical and yet they do not agree with you in several things that you quote them for nay some Differences are so great between you that I wonder you do not Condemn them for Hereticks as for Example 1. Turtulyon who lived in the time of the Ten Persecutions being a great Historian and by your Church counted famous did not much contend for Bishops nor much valued Ordination but said That Lay-men were Priests and gave this Reason for it saying That after Faith is Received then Man lives by his Faith and that Faith said he becomes Christ's Vicar and from hence he concluded that Three Believers will make a Church He also denyed Childrens Baptisme and therefore said he Why hastneth this Innocent Age to the Remission of Sins we are much more wary in worldly Things Is it meet we should commit the Sacrament of Baptisme which is a divine Thing unto them we would not commit the Things of this Earth He also condemned Second Marriages and much more Persecution for Consience All these things are quite contrary to you 2. Irinius Bishop of Lyons who it is said knew Ignasius and Policarbus yet he held and tought the Souls Mortality 3 And Justinus who lived in those Days you cannot deny but that he did both hold and teach That God was in the Form of a Man from all Eternity 4. And further There was never a one of all these aforesaid that held a Trinity of Persons in one God-Head No not Oregen himself whom your Church doth so extol altho he turned Apostate and denyed the Faith and Sacrifised to Devils to save his Life but what is he so cry'd up both by Papist and Protestant for is it not for his lofty Stile and philosophical Notions and in that he would make his Divinity to stoop unto his Philosophy For he held with Plato 1. The Souls Infusion and tought that all Souls were made together and sent down from Heaven to be Imbodyed 2. He Tought That after we rise again we shall have all need of Baptisme to purge us clean 3ly He in one place condemned Second Marriages and in another Contradicts it again 4ly He Tought that Devils were bodilis-Bodilis-Spirits and also that all Devils would be saved at last This sure is it that pleases you at a Haire But as to his Doctrin concerning God that cannot please you so well for the Arians challing him to be for them and therefore they say That Oragen denyed That the Son was to be Adored or Prayed too for he is saith Oregen not the Author but the Procurer of the good Things of God So that we pray not to him but to God for his sake And Augustin your Saint produces this as Oregen's Opinion concerning God And thus much as to your great Apostolical Fathers as you call them who lived in the time of the Ten Persecutions As to those other Antient Popes Bishops Fathers and Counsels that have been set up by the Roman Imperial Power and Authority I shall not treat on them here for he that hath but a Grain of spiritual Sense predominating in him will easily see them no other but the Mother of Harlots or Mistery Babilon that sets upon Tongues Nosions and Languages as hath been unfolded in a Treatise intituled The White Devil uncased which may come to be extant in time This is the Sum of your Church-History so that what Satisfaction can any Man have by all your Authors and Apostolical Fathers as you call them as also your Translators of their Works who were most of them Corrupters each one endeavouring to force the Matter to sute with his own Opinions as Epephanius Rufenus and several others who it is said corrupted several Authors So that all their Books are but troubled Waters to drink being not of that Ephecasy as to