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A10777 Certe[n] godly, learned, and comfortable conferences, betwene the two reuerende fathers, and holye martyrs of Christe, D. Nicolas Rydley late Bysshoppe of London, and M. Hughe Latymer sometyme Bysshoppe of Worcester, during the tyme of their emprysonmentes. Whereunto is added. A treatise agaynst the errour of transubstantiation, made by the sayd reuerende father D. Nicolas Rydley. M.D.LVI. Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555.; Latimer, Hugh, 1485?-1555. aut; Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555. Brief declaracion of the Lordes Supper. aut 1556 (1556) STC 21048; ESTC S115941 68,037 134

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Apoc. 2. ād you haue collered with hym or now blessed be godde that hath euer aided you so well I suppose he maye well holde you at the baye but truly he will not be so willynge I thynke to ioyne with you as with vs yongelynges Syr I beseche you let your seruaunt reade this my bablinge vnto you and nowe and then as it shall seme vnto you beste let youre penne runne on my booke spare not to blotte my paper I geue you good leaue As touchinge this Antoniane whome I haue here made mine aduersarie leste paraduenture anie ymagination mighte carrie you amisse and make you thinke otherwise then I ment Knowe you that I haue alluded to one Antonie a mooste cruel Bisshoppe of the Arianes and a very violent persecuter of them that were Catholique Victor li. 3. de persequut Aphricae and of a righte iudgemente To whome Hunericus a Tyrante of the Vandales knowing Antonies fearcenes committed his whole autoritie that he should either turne the Christians which beleued well vnto his false Religion or els to punish and torment them at his pleasure Which thing Antonius toke in hande to doe and executed the same againste a greate numbre but specially againste two mooste godlie Bisshoppes and most constante in the doctrine whiche was according to godlinesse Tit. 1. The name of th one was Eugenius an aged man thother was named Habet deum This Latter as it appeareth by Victors Historie of the persecutions of the Vandales booth the Tyranne and the false counterfaicte Bisshoppe desiered muche to haue turned vnto their mooste pestilēt heresie This Habet deum was bisshope of the Citee Tamallune wher Antonie hadde ben bisshoppe before And when Antonie hadde vexed hym as the storie sayeth with diuerse and sundrie persequutions and hadde fownde the souldiar of Christe allwaies constante in his Confession it is sayd that at lengthe in a greate rage he swoore and sayd to his frendes on this wise yf I make hym not of our Religion then am I not Antonie it is incredible what harmes and troubles he putte hym to what crueltye he practised against him and it wer to longe now to describe the same vnto you But the man of god stoode allwayes vnmooueable and in the confession of Christes fayth remayned euer vnto th ende the constante and vnfoyled souldyare of Christe Thys goode Bisshoppe Habet deum I praye to godde our heauēly father to geue me grace that I maye fathefully folowe throughe our Lorde Iesus Christe Amen Syr I haue cawsed my man not onely to reade your armour vnto me but also to write it owte H. Laty. for it is not onely no bare armour but also well buckled armour I see not how it could be better I thāke you euē frome the botome of my harte for it and my praier you shall not lacke trustinge that you do the like for me For in deede there is the helpe c. Manie thinges make confusion in memorie And if I were as well learned as was Sainct Paul I woulde not bestowe muche amongest them further then to gaule them and spur-gall to when and where as occasion were geuen and matter came to minde for the lawe shall bee their shote anchour staye and refuge Fare you well in Christe A treatise agaīst the errour of transubstantiation made by the fornamed Reuerende father Nic. Rydley Byshop of London in the time of his emprisonmente MAnie thinges cōfounde the weake memorie A fewe places well weighed ād perceiued lightneth the vndstandinge Trueth is there to bee searched with diligence where it is certaine to be hadde Though God do speake the trueth by man yet in mannes worde which God hath not reueled to bee his a man maie doubt without mistruste in God Christ is the truth of God reueiled vnto man from heauen by God himselfe and therefore in his worde the trueth is to bee founde whyche is to bee embraced of all that be his Christe biddeth vs aske and wee shall haue Searche and we shall finde Knocke and it shal be opened vnto vs. Therfore O heauenly father autour and fountaine of all truth the bottomeles Sea of al true vnderstanding send doune wee beseche thee thy holye spirite into oure hartes and lighten oure vnderstanding with the beames of thy heauenly grace We aske the this O heauenlie father not in respect of our desertes but for thy deare Sonne oure Sauiour Iesus Christes sake Thou knoweste O heauenlye father that the controuersie aboute the Sacrament of the blessed bodie and bloude of thy deare Sonne oure Sauioure Christe hathe troubled not of late onelie thy churche of England Fraūce Germanie and Italye but also manie yeares agoe The fault is oures no doubt therof for we haue deserued thy plage But O Lorde be mercifull and relieue our miserie with some light of grace Thou knoweste O Lorde howe this wicked worlde rolleth vp and doune and rieleth to and fro and careth not what thy wil is so it may abide in welth Yf truth haue wealth then who are so stoute to defende the truth as they But if Christes crosse bee laiede on truethes backe then they vanishe straighte awaie as waxe before the fiere Truthe in tyme of affliction hath sevin frendes But these are not they O heauenly father for whome I make my most mone but for those selye ones O Lorde whiche haue a Zeale vnto thee those I meane whiche woulde ād wisshe to know thy will and yet are lette holde backe and blinded by the subtilties of Sathan and his ministers the wickednes of this wretched world and the sinfull lustes and affections of the fleashe Alasse Lorde thou knowest that we be of oure selues but fleash wherin there dwelleth nothing that is good How then is it possible for man without thee O Lorde to vnderstande thy truth in deede Can the naturall man perceiue the will of God 1. Cor. 2. O Lorde to whome thou geuest a Zeale of thee geue them also we beeseche the knowledge of thy blessed will Suffer not them O Lorde blindelie to bee ledde for to striue against thee as thou didst those alas whiche crucified thine owne deare sonne Forgeue thē O Lorde for thy deare sonnes sake for they knowe not what they doe They do thinke alas O Lorde for lacke of knowledge that they doe vnto thee good seruice euen when againste thee they do moost greuouselie rage Ioan. 16. Remembre O Lorde we besech the for whom thy Martir Steuen did praie Acto 7. and whome thy holy Apostle did so truelye and earnestly loue that for their saluation he wished hymselfe accursed from thee Rom. 9. Luc. 23. Remembre O heauenlye father the prayer of thy deare sonne oure Sauioure Christe vpon the crosse when he saide vnto thee O Father forgeue them they knowe not what thei do With this forgiuenes O good Lorde geue me I beseche the thy grace so here briefelye to sette forth the saiyngs of thy sonne our Sauiour
and also be more hable to teache their childrē the same yet notwithstanding ther is not lyke necessitee of the vulgare tounge in Baptisme and in the lordes supper Baptisme is geuē to children who by reason of their aege are not able to vnderstande what is spoken vnto them what tounge soeuer it be The lordes supper is and oughte to be geuen to them that are wexen More ouer in Baptisme which is accustomed to be geuen to children in the Latin tounge all the substantial poyntes as a man wolde saye which Christe commawnded to be doone are obserued And therfore I iudge that Baptisme to be a perfecte and true baptisme and that it is not only not nedefull but also not lawfull for anie man so Christened to be Christened againe Butt yet notwithstandynge they oughte to be tawghte the Cathechisme of the Christen fayth whan they shall come to yeares of discretion Which Cathechisme who so euer despiseth or will not desirously embrace and willingly learne in my iudgemente he plaieth not the parte of a Christiane man But in the popisshe masse are wantynge certeyne substantialles that is to saye thinges commawnded by the worde of godde to be obserued in ministration of the lordes supper of the which ther is sufficient declaration made before H. Laty. Wher you saye I wolde wisshe surely I wolde wisshe that you hadde spoken more vehemently and to haue sayed it is of necessitee that all thinges in the congregation shulde be doone in the vulgare tounge for thedyffyenge and cōforte of them that are presente Nottwithstandinge that the childe it selfe is sufficientlye baptised in the Latin tounge Forasmoche as I perceiue you are so stifflie Anton. obiect 14 I will not saye obstinately bente and so wedded to your owne opinion that no gentle exhortations no holsome cownsayles no other kynde of meanes can call you home to a better mynde ther remayneth that which in lyke cases was wonte to be the only remedye agaynst stiffe necked and stubburne persones that is you muste be hampered by the lawes and compelled either to obey whether ye will or no or elles to suffer that which a rebelle to the lawes oughte to suffer Doo you not knowe that whosoeuer refuseth to obeye the lawes of the realme he bewrayeth himselfe to be an enemye to his cowntrey Doo you not knowe that this is the redyest waye to stirre vp sedition and ciuille warre Yt is better that you shulde beare your owne synne then that throughe thexample of your breache of the commē lawes the cōmen qwiette shulde be disturbed How can you saye you will be the qwenes true subiecte when as you doo openly professe that you will not kepe her lawes N. Ryd Ansvuer O heauenly father the father of all wisedom vnderstandinge and true strengthe I besech thee for thy onli sonne our sauiour Christes sake looke mercifulli vpon me wretched creature and sende thine holye spirite into my breaste that not only I maye vnderstāde according to thy wisedome how this pestilēt and deadly dart is to be borne of and with what aunswere it is to be beaten backe but also when I must ioyne to fight in the fielde for the glorye of thy name that then I being strengthened with the defence of thy right hande maie manfully stande in the confession of thy faieth and of thy trueth and continue in the same vnto the ende of my life through the same our Lorde Iesus Christ. Amen Nowe to the obiection I graunt it to be reasonable that he whiche by woordes and gentilnesse can not be made yealde to that is right and good shoulde bee bridled by the straite correction of the lawes that is to saie he that will not bee subiect to gods worde muste be punished by the lawes It is true that is commenly saide He that will not obeie the gospell muste be tamed and taught by the rigoure of the lawe But these thynges oughte to take place againste him whiche refuseth to do that is right and iuste according to true godlines not againste hym whyche can not quietelye beare superstitions and the ouerthrowe of Christes institutions but doth hate and detest from his harte suche kinde of procedinges and that for the glorie of the name of God To that which ye saie a transgressour of the commen lawes bewraieth himselfe to be an enemy of his countrie suerly a man ought to looke vnto the nature of the lawes what maner of lawes they bee whiche are broken For a faithfull Christian oughte not to thinke alike of all maner of lawes But that saiyng ought onelye truely to bee vnderstanded of suche lawes as bee not contrarie to gods woorde Otherwise whosoeuer loue their contrie in treuth that is to saie in God they wyll alwaies iudge if at any time the lawes of god and manne be th one contrarie to the other that a man ought rather to obeie God then manne Acto 4. And they that thinke otherwise and pretende a loue to their contrie forasmuche as they make their contrie to fyghte as it were againste Godde in whome consisteth the onelie staie of the countrie surelye I do thinke that suche are to bee iudged mooste deadly enemies and tratours to their countrie For they that fighte againste Godde whiche is the safetie of theyr countrie what doe they els but go aboute to bryng vpon theyr countrie a presente ruine and destruction But they that do so are worthelie to be iudged enemies to their countrie and betraiours of the Realme Therfore c. But this is the rediest waie ye saie to stir vp sedition to trouble the quiete of the commen welth therfore are these thinges to bee repressed in time by force of lawes Beholde Sathan doth not cease to practise hisolde giles Satā his ministers doo alvuayes charge the godly vuith sedition 3. Reg. 18. Hiere 26. ād accustomed subtilties He hath euer this darte in a readines to whorle againste his aduersaries to accuse them of sedition that he maie bringe them yf he can in daunger of the higher powers For so hath he by his ministers alwaies charged the Prophetes of Godde Achab saied vnto Elias art thou he that troubleth Iraell The false prophetes also complained to their Princes of Hieremie that his woordes were seditious and not to be suffered Did not the Scribes and Pharisies falselye accuse Christe as a seditious person Luc. 23. Ioan. 19 Acto 24. and one that spake againste Cesar Did they not at the laste crie if you let this manne go you are not Cesars frende The Oratoure Tertullus how doth he accuse Paule before Felix the highe deputie We haue founde this man saith he a pestilent felowe and a sterer of sedition vnto all the Iewes in the whole worlde c. But I praie you were these men as they were called seditious persons Christ Paule and the Prophetes God forbid But they were of false men falsely accused And wherefore I praie you but because they reproued before the people
their giles superstition and deceites And when the other could not bere it and would gladly haue hadde them taken out of the waie they accused them as seditious persons and troublers of the commen wealthe that beinge by this meanes made hatefull to the people and Princes they mighte the more easilie be snatched vppe to be tormented and put to death But howe far they were from al sedition their whole doctrine life and conuersation doeth well declare For that whiche was obiected laste of all that he canne not be a faithfull subiecte to his prince which professeth openly that he will not obserue the lawes whiche the prince hath made here I woulde wishe that I mighte haue an indifferente iudge and one that feareth god to whose iudgement in this cause I promise I will stande I aunswere therfore a man oughte to obeie his prince but in the Lorde and neuer against the Lorde For he that knowingly obeith his prince against god doth not a duetie to the prince but is a decieuer of the Prince and an helper vnto him to worke his own destruction He is also vniust whiche geueth not the prince that is the princes and to god that is gods Here commeth to my remembraunce that notable saiynge of Valentinianus the Emperoure for chosinge the Bisshop of Millaine Set him saith he in the bishops seate Theodor. eccl hist. l. 4. cap. 5. Euse. eccl histo l. 4. cap. 4. Niceph. li. 3. cap. 35. to whome if wee as man do offende at any time we maie submitte our selues Policarpus the moste constante Martyr when he stode before the chiefe Ruler and was commaunded to blaspheme Christe and to sweare by the fortune of Caesar c. He aunswered with a milde spirite we are taught saieth he to geue honoure vnto princes and those powers whiche be of god but suche honoure as is not contrarie to gods religion Hitherunto ye see good father howe I haue in wordes onely made as it were a florishe before the fighte whiche I shortelie looke after and howe I haue begōne to prepare certaine kindes of wepōs to fight againste the aduersaries of Christe and to muse with my selfe howe the dartes of the olde enemie maie be borne of and after what sort I maie smite him againe with the sworde of the spirite Ephes. 6. I learne also hereby to be in vre with armour and to assaie howe I canne goe armed In Tyndall where I was borne not farre from the scotishe borders I haue knowen my contreiemen watche nighte and daie in their harnesse such as they hadde that is in their Iackes and their speares in their hands you call thē northen gads specially when they hadde any priuye warninge of the cōming of the scottes And so doyng although at euerie suche bickeringes some of them spente their lifes yet by suche meanes like pretie men they defended their countrie And those that soe died I thinke that before God they died in a good quarel and their ofspringe and progenie all the countrie loued them the better for their fathers sakes And in the quarell of Christe our sauioure in the defense of his owne diuine ordinaunces by the whiche he geueth vnto vs lyfe and immortalitie yea in the quarell of faithe and Christian religion wherein resteth oure euerlastinge saluacion shall wee not watche shall we not goe alwaies armed euer lokinge when oure aduersarie whiche like a roaringe Lyon seeketh whome he maie deuoure shall come vpon vs by reason of oure slouthfulnesse 1. Pet. 5. Yea and woe be vnto vs if he canne oppresse vs at vnwares whiche vndoubtedly he wil doe if he finde vs slepinge Let vs awake therfore for if the good manne of the house knewe what houre the thiefe woulde come he woulde surely watche and not suffer his house to be brokē vp Ma●● Let vs awake therfore I saie and lette vs not suffer oure house to bee broken vp Resist the Deuill saieth S. Iames and he will flie from you Iaco. 4. Lette vs therfore resiste him māfullie ād taking the crosse vpō oure shoulders let vs folow our captaine Christ who by his owne bloude hathe dedicated and halowed the waye whiche leadeth vnto the father that is to the light whiche no man can attaine 1. Tim. 6. the fountaine of euerlasting ioyes Let vs folow I saye whither he calleth and allureth vs that after these afflictions whiche laste but for a momente whereby he trieth our faith as gold by the fiere we maie euerlastinglye raigne and triumphe with him in the glorie of the father and that throughe the same oure Lorde and Sauiour Iesus Christ to whome with the father and the holie ghooste bee all honoure and glorie nowe and for euer Amen Amen Goode father forasmoch as I haue determined with my selfe to powre forthe these my cogitatiōs into your bosome her me thinketh I see you sodenly liftyng vp your heade towardes heauen after your maner and thē lookynge apon me with your propheticall countenāce and speakynge vnto me with these or like wordes Truste not my sonne I beseche you vouchsafe me the honour of this name for in so doynge I shall thinke my selfe both honoured and loued of you Truste not I saye my sonne to these worde weapons 1. Cor. 4. for the kingdome of godde is not in wordes but in power And remember allwayes the wordes of the lorde doo not imagine afore hande Matt. 10. Marc. 11. what and how you will speake for it shall be geuen you euē in that same howre what ye shall speake for it is not ye that speake but the spirite of your father which speaketh in you I praye you therfore father praie for me that I maye caste my hoole care apon hym and truste apon hym in all perilles For I knowe and am surely perswaded that what soeuer I can imagine or thinke afore hande it is nothinge excepte he assiste me with his spirite when the tyme is I beseche you therfore father Ephes. 6. praie for me that such a complete harnesse of the spirite suche boldnesse of mynde may be geuen vnto me that I maye owte of a true fayth saye with Dauid Psal. 44. I will not truste in my bowe ād it is not my swearde that shal saue me For he hath no pleasure in the strengthe of an horse c. Psal. 147. But the lordes delyte is in them that feare hym and putte theyr truste in his mercye I besech you praye praye that I maye entre thys fyghte only in the name of godde and that when all is paste I beinge not ouercome throughe his gratiouse ayde maye remayne and stande faste in hym tyll that daye of the lorde Apoc. 2. in the which to them that obteine the victorie shall be geuen the lyuely Manna to eate and a Tryumphante Crowne for euermore Now father I praye you helpe me to buckle on this geare a little better For you knowe the depenes of Sathan beynge an olde souldyar