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A96069 VVater upon the flame: by XX. queries propounded in the spirit of love and meeknesse, to the serious consideration of all Gods people; principally to the fifth monarch men, commonly so called. / By one that loveth the truth, and all good men; and one that neither hath, nor ever had, nor never intendeth to have the least place of profit, or worldly advantage by any change of government whatsoever. 1659 (1659) Wing W1042; Thomason E989_12; ESTC R204047 13,299 16

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it is because there is no light in them 6. Gal. 16. As many as walk according to THIS RVLE peace be on them who ever sindeth peace in a way contrary to Gospel Rule may be sure t is not the Peace of God Phil 4.7 but the peace of Satan which he is wont to give poor creatures that he hath in fast possession Luke 11.21 19. John Becaldus Redivium Or the Enlish Quaker you may read at large Whether that Spirit that worketh mightily in you in these smighting resolutions be not the same that wrought in Munster and others that at last issued in all manner of ungodlinesse and confusion which I believe is farre from your hearts to design Do you complain of Princes Tyranny and Luxury to the People So did they Do you cry up the Kingdome of Christ on Earth and pretend for Righteousnesse So did they Do you cry up your selves for the little remnant the refined People that are appointed to smiting work So did they Do you revile the reputed Orthodox Ministery for Antichristian Carnall So did they Do you open the Pulpit to common men of all Trades So did they Do you go much by inward impulses So did they Do you use the Scripture Instances of Jonathan his Armour-Bearer Gideon against the Midianites David against Goliah to heighten the Peoples Spirits to fight So did Munsters in his Oration before the fight with the Princes use the same Do you abound with comfort peace confidence of successe so did they Munster to encourage the People to fight told them he was sure of Victory Now then consider in the fear of God whether this similitude doth not evince that they then and you now are acted much by oneand the self-same Spirit and if so Whether you have not cause to judge that you have gotten the wrong Spirit for your guide and your foot in a most dangerous snare notwithstanding all your confidence to the contrary since not only Gods Word but Gods fearful Judgements upon the Ringleaders of the German Rebellion did do with a loud voice declare his dislike of their actions there not being one Head-manamongst them according to the Story but proved forsaken of the good and holy Spirit and struck with Blindnesse of Mind and Hardnesse of Heart And whether you have not just cause to fear the like fearfull judgements of God to befall you if you should persist in obedience to the motions of that evil Spirit that now prompteth you to leap out of your Places and Callings to meddle with Persons and Things you have nothing to do with Since God is the God of order and not of confusion And the Father that without respect of persons judgeth every mans work 1 Pet. 1.17 20. Whether your Contempt of the godly learned Ministry of the Nation be not evidently of the evil Spirit since all the great ends for which Christ ordained a Gospel Ministry is not onely endeavoured but actually effected by many of them and consequently the Marks and Characters of the Ministers of Christ are upon them since it is impossible such work should be done but by the concurrence of Gods holy Spirit with them For though Paul plant and Apollo water T is God must give the increase If you could shew half so much for your Governing the World as they can for their Ministry you might the better expect Subjection by the Inhabitants of the Earth There are Four things chiefly to which the work of the Ministers of Christ by divine appointment may be reduced First Conviction of Sin Righteousnss Joh. 16.8.18 Act. 28. Secondly Conversion 26. Acts 18. Thirdly Edification 4. Ephes 12. Fourthly Protection 20. Acts 28 29. None of which can be denied to be wrought by many of them The truth of which is manifest 1. By the multitude of bils of spiritual complaints requests and thanks givings made evident daily by such as wait on the Publick ministry 2. Particular addresses of persons to their houses to be resolved in cases of conscience upon their Ministry 3. The constant early chearfull attendance of multitudes of Christians upon their Ministry daily to receive their Fathers bread by their hand 4. The holy Conversation of many that are fed by them 5. The freedome of such from the grand Heresies of the Time wherewith divers others are infected Hereticks having little to do with any but such as have first fallen in their affection to them and at last turned their backs upon them 6. The tears sad hearts of many godly souls at the death of them as lately at the death of Mr. Jacombe Now then if they do all the work of the Miuisters of Christ and all the ends for which Christ ordained the Ministry be accomplished by them which could not be done without God why then God owneth them Christ owneth them and the Spirit of God owneth them Whence then can it be but from the evil Spirit that you disown them and pour contempt upon them Now the Lord give you to consider this and in the spirit of love meekness I speak to you remembring what poor weak creatures we are all and that I my self have been in the like kind tempted to some degree overcome for which I abhor my self in dust and ashes I further intreat you to consider if God peradventure will give you repentance to the acknowledging of the truth that as in the contempt of the godly learned Ministry you fall OVT of the company of God OVT of the company of Christ OVT of the company of the Spirit as hath been shewn OVT of the company of the blessed Martyrs and glorified Saints who greatly reverensed the godly Ministry of their time OVT of the company of almost all the people of God upon the face of the whole earth at the present time so on the other hand I intreat you consider whose company you fall INTO even all sorts of persons enmptty of the good and full of the evil spirit comrades of Satan who are like to be throne into the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone for ever these all as one man hate the godly Ministry and most violently set themselves against them yea 't is remarkable that the further men are from God the greater is their hatred of them and can you find in your heart to be found in such company 1. All sorts of prophane wretches in whose Souls the good spirits never lodged such as resist the holy Ghost and will not that Christ should raign over them these all hate a puritan Minister because he cannot Prophesie to them of Wine or strong drink or any thing that will please them Secondly all Apostates from the faith of Gods elect out of whose souls the good spirit is departed as the Ranters and Quakers that have let go the head there are no persons so venemously set against them as these as appeareth by their Pamphlets and WHY but because those greevous Wolves cannot devour the Lambs of Christ so freely as they would while the poor people have the wings of godly and learned men to shelter them Thirdly the Pope with his Colledge of Jesuites these strive all they can to hinder the success of their Ministry and indeed to ruin both them and their standing insinuateing to the people that they are no Ministers only lay-men Their standing in the Ministry naught because they have not their Ordination from Rome while you on the other hand say their standing is naught because they have their Ordination from Rome But besides all this HE by all base means reproacheth them as carnal vitions and if he can light of them he burneth them and why doth be all this Is it because their Ministerial standing is Antichristian think ye as you suggest or the quite contrary the Pope and you are of two minds in this were the Ministers of England bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh as you are apt to think he would norish and cherish them not bu●n ruin and destroy them no man ever hated his own flesh but nourished and cherished it the truth is his hatred to them is founded upon his knowledg of the quite contrary Namely that if he cannot procure them to fall off their standing wherein you work hard to help him though not intentionally he is never like to get up his in England he knoweth well enough that as they ever have been so still are under God the Walls and Bullworks of the Protestant Religion and that besides them he hath no considerable adversary hear there not being many besides able to read one line nay not one word of the Bible but by their help now then if they have God Christ Spirit with them and the generality of the godly over the face of the whole earth with them and against them all sorts of ungodly wretches as in a conspiracy methinks it should rationally put you to a stand and make you tremble when you or any other go about to speak evil of such dignities Again is it Satan in them that 's certain because they have no other guide and because he seeketh the destruction of Souls and can it be God in you to destroy the Saviours of Souls You cannot swear with them norly with them nor be drunk with them nor commit uncleaness with them nor blaspheme God nor commit Idolatry with them how cometh it that you can revile the Godly learned Ministry with them For the Lords sake the Gospel sake the poor divided Church people of Gods sake and for your own eternal Savlation sake consider what you do in this great matter lest you be found fighters against God whilst you think to fight for him and fighters for the Pope whilst you think to fight against him Blessed are the Pace-makers for they shall be called the Children of God Matt. 5.9 FINIS
Spirit you are of for the Son of man came not c. The extraordinary practises of the Old Testament Prophets was no Pattern to them but His. 1 Cor. 6.17 He that is joyned to the Lord is said to be one Spirit And 2. Phil. 6. Let the same mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus Christ calleth upon all his disciples to learn of him to be meek and lowly Mat. 11.29 Paul calleth upon all Christians to walk in love as he did 5. Ephes 2. to self-denial as he did 15. Rom. 2. Let every one of you please his neighbour for his good for even Christ pleased not himself Peter calleth upon all persons to Bear Wrongs patiently as he did 1 Pet. 1.21 and so to tread in his steps which he saith they were thereunto called from his example And John saith 1 Joh. 2.6 He that saith he abideth in him ought to walk even as he walked And Paul saith We are predestinated to be conformed to the Image of the Son 8. Rom. 29. And it was his Glory that looking into the Glasse of the Gospel he became translated into that Image 2 Cor. 3.18 So then Christs Image Christs Mind Christs Spirit Christs Steps is of right the Image of all his Saints the Mind of all his Disciples the Spirit of all his Friends and the Steps of all his faithfull Followers Is it not then above an ordinary wonder that you should pretend to so much of his Spirit even at the same time when your violent motions proclaim the contrary with a loud voice Christ was all Smooth and you seem to be all Rough. Christ was all for putting up of Swords you are all for pulling them out Christ was all for Saving mens Lives and you seem to be all for Destroying them Christ was for Binding up of Wounds and you are for Making them 6. Whether the Commandments and imitable Practises of Christ and his Apostles before mentioned be not as long liv'd as other of his Commandments and binding upon all his disciples till he come again in Person As the People of God under Moses was shut up as Paul expresseth it 3. Gal. 23. under his Laws till Faith or the Gospel of the Mesiah come So are the People of God under the Gospel shut up under Christs Laws till He come again in Person to disanull them onsult 2. Rev. 25. That which thou hast received hold fast How long TILL I COME 1 Cor. 11.26 As ought as ye eat this Bread and drink this Cup ye do shew forth the Lords death Marke TILL HE COME So 1 Tim. 6.14 I give thee charge that thou keep this Commandment without spot unrebukable How long VNTIL THE APPEARING OF OVR LORD JESVS CHRIST So that all the Positive Precepts and Examples of Christ and the Apostles Practised and Commanded upon a Moral Reason last as long as this present world lasteth except we should interpret these Scriptures or rather abuse them with the Quakers and from them fancy another appearing and Coming of Christ before his coming to Judgement but to shew the vanity of their conceit His coming to Judgement is called his Second coming 9. Heb. 28. Whereas then it would be the Third Consider I pray Is there any Time set by our Saviour or the Apostles how long men shall be of his Spirit Humble Meek Gentle Obedient to Magistrates no brawlers but shewing all meeknesse to all men And when his Disciples may lawfully turn into the quite contrary Spirit from Lambs to Lyons from subjection to Magistrates to destroying them T is true there cometh a Time when the Saints shall Judge the World Bind Kings in chains Rule over Nations Rev. 2.26 but it is the reward of Overcoming all Temptations and keeping Christs works to the end even Till He Come At which time Christ promiseth also to give such Overcomers the Morning Star 2. Rev. 28. Look the place Now as you go to work you catch at the Reward before you have done your Work The Apostle James enjoyneth upon all the Christians patience James 5.7 8 9. Be patient therefore Brethren saith he How long unto the coming of the Lord. The mean Time is the Time of Saints suffering not Raigning in the Judgement of S. James And is not Paul one with him Marke 3. Colos 4. WHEN CHRIT WHO IS OVR LIFE shall appear THEN shall ye appear with him in glory Mark that THEN and not till then for he saith in the mean Time they are dead and their life is hid Now How are they dead and their Life hid if they must pull down Princes and be the Earths Governours 7. Whether doth not Daniel the Prophet tell us plainly in the 7th of Daniel 21. That the Horn that spake great things and whose looks were more stout then his fellows that this horn should make warre with the Saints and prevail against them untill the Ancient of Days come If so and that it appears by the 13. Verse as it plainly doth That the Time of the Ancient of Daies coming and the Son of Mans coming in the clouds of Heaven take place together Mind the words Behold one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven and came to the Ancient of daies and they brought him near If so then how vain a thing is it to expect the Kingdomes of this world to become Christs till he come in the clouds of Heaven and the Ancient of dayes with him 8. Some of you make Dan. 7.18 The words these But the Saints shall take the Kingdome the ground of present fighting with worldly Powers in order thereunto now the Query is Whether this be not a wild inference from the Premises because t is clear from the 27. Verse that when ever they take it it shall be first given them and that 's not till the Ancient of days come So saith the 22. Verse Vntill the Ancient of daies come and Judgement was given to the Saints of the most High and the time came that the Saints possessed the Kingdom Nay Christ himself hath it not actually given him till his coming in the clouds of Heaven vers 13. Marke the words Behold one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven and came to the Ancient of daies and they brought him near before him and there was GIVEN HIM Glory Dominion and a Kingdom Can any one with any shew of reason conceive that God would have the Saints to take the Kingdom before it be given Christ Is not this then a strang piece of Religion in the People of God Now in the dayes of their conformity to Christ in his humiliation to leave the Rode of all Gods Saints to leap over the Hedge of all positive Laws and break down the Wall of most plain Precepts to pull down Kings and Princes in order thereunto 9. Doth not the Apostle John instruct us that the Time of Christs Reign over the Kingdoms of this world taketh place with the sounding of the last Trumpet