Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	father_n	holy_a	proceed_v	13,141	5	8.3256	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A68210	A Christian letter of certaine English protestants, vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in England: vnto that reverend and learned man, Mr R. Hoo requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine (which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian religion, and of the church among vs) expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall pollicie.	Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621, attributed name.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603, attributed name.	1599 (1599)	STC 13721; ESTC S107562	38,506	52

faith professed by the English church is this There is one true and living God c. And Although we acknowledge the three persons to be God and Lord yet the Godhead of the Father and the Sonne is all one c. Here we craue of you Maister Hoo. to explaine your owne meaninge where you saye The Father alone is originallie that Deitie which Christ originallie is not Howe the Godhead of the Father and of the Sonne be all one and yet originallie not the same Deitie And then teach vs how farre this differeth from the heresie of Arius who sayeth of God the Sonne There was when he was not who yet graunteth that he was before all creatures of thinges which were not Whether such wordes weaken not the eternitie of the Sonne in the opiniō of the simple or at the least make the Sōne inferior to the Father in respect of the Godhead or els teach the ignorant there be many Gods Another foundation of our beleef The Sonne is the Worde of the Father from euerlasting begotten of the Father c. and the holy Ghost proceeding from the Father and the Sonne Where we holde the coeternitie of the Sonne with the Father by expresse litterall mētion in the Scriptures found in these wordes The Lord hath possessed me in the beginning of his way c. And agayne In the beginning was the Worde and the Worde was with God and the Worde was God c. And againe Glorifie mee thou Father with thine own selfe with the glorie which I had with thee before the world was And we holde the proceeding of the holy Ghost from the Father and the Sonne by like expresse wordes of holy scripture namelie When the Comforter shall come whom I will send vnto you from the Father euen the spirit of trueth which proceedeth of the Father c. Shew we pray you your full meaning where you say The coeternitie of the Sonne of God with his Father and the proceeding of the spirit from the Father and the Sonne are in scripture no where to be found by expresse litterall mention Whether there bee not expresse litterall mention of these two pointes in the former alleadged places and whether such maner of speeches may not worke a scruple in the weak christian to doubt of these articles or at the least so vnderproppe the popish traditions that menne may the rather fauour their allegations when they see vs fayne to borrow of them The Church of Englande professeth Holye Scripture contayneth all things which are necessarie to saluation so that whatsoeuer is neither read in it neither can be proued thereby is not to be exacted of any man that it should bee beleeued as an article of faith or should be thought to be required vnto the necessitie of saluation You on the other side saye In actions of this kinde speaking of direct immediate and proper necessitie final to saluation our chiefest direction is from scripture and agayne The insufficiencie of the light of nature is by the light of scripture fullie and perfectlie supplied And in another place It sufficeth that nature and scripture doe serue in such full sorte that they both iointlie and not seuerallie eyther of them be so compleate that vnto euerlasting felicitie we need not the knowledge of anie thing more then these two c. Where you seeme vnto vs that although you exclude traditions as a part of supernaturall trueth yet you infer that the light of nature teacheth some knowledge naturall whiche is necessarie to saluation and that the Scripture is a supplement and making perfect of that knowledge Which being cōpared vnto pag. 127. where you affirme that the wante of moral vertues exclude from saluation And pag. 82. where you make faith hope charitie to be taught only by supernatural trueth It seemeth to vs that naturall light teaching morall virtues teacheth thinges necessarie to saluation whiche yet is not perfect without that which supernaturall knowledge in holy Scripture reveileth Heere wee pray you to explane your owne meaning whether you thinke that there be anie naturall light teaching knowledge of things necessarie to saluation which knowledge is not contayned in holy scripture if you thinke no How then say you before Not the scripture severallie but nature and scripture iointlie be compleate vnto euerlasting felicitie If you say yea how then agree you with the beleef of our Church which affirmeth that holy scripture contayneth all thinges necessarie to salvation And here we pray you to shew vs whether nature reach anie thing touchinge Christ whether without or beside him any thing be necessarie whether that in him we be not copleate Lastlie whether you meane that the knowledge of humane wisedome concerning God haue anie thinge not expressed in Scripture or that morall virtues are any where rightlie taught but in holy scriptu or that whersoeuer they be taught they be of such necessitie that the wante of them exclude from salvation and what scripture approueth such a saying or that cases and matters of salvation bee determinable by any other lawe then of holy scripture And then tell vs howe you vnderstande these places following and howe they agree with this your position of the light of nature and morall virtues A man is iustified by faith without the workes of the law Neither is there salvation in anie other For there is no other name which is giuen vnder heauen amongst men by which we must be saued The naturall man perceaueth not the thinges of the spirit of God for they are foolishnes vnto him c. Except a man be borne againe hee can not see the kingdome of God The Reverend Fathers of our church to avouch our forsaking of the Antichristian sinagogue of Rome cleauing to the scriptures of God doe so farre make the iudgement of the scriptures aboue the Church that with the auncient Fathers they say In time of dissention it is most behoofefull for the people to haue recourse vnto the scriptures and that wee may in no wise beleeue the Churches them selues vnlesse they say and doe such thinges as bee agreeable to the Scriptures The triall of scriptures is necessarie to discerne the true church from all false congregations which all boast of the spirit of trueth as much as the true church And Only scriptures are a sufficient warrand to euery Christian to trie what is the word of God and what is the worde of man c. But you Maist. Hoo. doe saye It is not the worde of God which doeth or possiblie can assure vs that we doe well to thinke it is his worde And againe By experience we all know that the first outwarde motiue leading men so to esteeme of the scripture is the authoritie of Gods Church And a litle before Scripture teacheth vs that sauing trueth which God hath discouered to

to holy scripture to vse plaine good and sensible termes to note out the difference of a ministers estate from other mens and yours seemeth to carie another kinde of stile more befitting the glorie of the Romish character then the simplicitie of our ministerie Our church saieth they must bee called that preach publicklie you say a Catechist or whom wee finde in aūcient time to haue bene such as Clemens and Origine in Alexandria as to whom the people came to heare the preaching of the word of God is none of the order of the Cleargie meaning as wee think without this ministeriall power We pray you thē to shew vs whether you meane by ministeriall power Cleargie or order that which our church meaneth by calling if you doe then we see not how you and they agree that you allow a Catechist which is an office to preach the worde which is not of the Ecclesiasticall order and as we say hath no calling therevnto and our church saieth that it is not lawfull c. Againe our Church saieth that it is not lawfull to administer the Sacramentes without that calling and that God and well ordered Churches forbidd Women to baptize you as wee thinke contrarie to our church maintaine such churches as allow the private baptisme by Women in case of necessitie and you saye diuers reformed churches allow and defende such baptisme Heere wee intreate you to declare the agreement of these sayings and whether because you say that the speciall order you speake of is consecrated vnto the seruice of the highest in thinges wherewith others may not medle your meaning be that lay people in case of necessitie may medle with those thinges which our church saieth is not lawfull without calling or that because you would haue the ministeriall power to be a marke and character you giue libertie to preaching baptizing as to certaine seruices and that the character and indeleble order hath nothing to it selfe peculiar but the making of the body of Christ in the Sacrament and offering him vp in sacrifice to his Father that the laitie women and catechist may not medle with that And heere wee desire to vnderstande whence you fett that worthie distinction the ignorance whereof beguileth manie and that you would declare the same by holy scripture bring vs one pregnant proofe to shew the errour of our church in affirming preaching and ministring without calling to bee vnlawfull or else declare the exception either by scripture or by some order or interpretation published by our church or some of our Reuerend Fathers which also may haue their harmonie with the sayings of the Reuerend Fathers by vs before rehearsed And lastlie whether that you in these three places are not cōtrarie to your self or that you make not a deluding proposition which contayneth a generall prohibition without limitation which yet is not generall but must haue exception And if you place Readers as distinct from cleargie what may we thinke you esteeme of our reading ministers are they no cleargie men It is an Article of our faith that The Sacramentes instituted of Christ are not onely markes of christian profession but rather certayne testimonies and effectuall signes of grace and of the good will of God towards vs by which hee doeth worke invisiblie in vs and doeth not onelie stirre vp but also confirme our faith towardes him selfe Which by the reverend Fathers of our Church is interpreted thus Sacraments are visible wordes seales of righteousnes and tokens of grace The soule of man not the creature of bread or water receaue the grace of God c. The grace of God is not in the visible signes but in the soule The substance of all Sacramentes is the worde of God which S t Paule calleth verbum reconciliationis the worde of Attonement this worde is the instrument of remissiō of sinne The Sacraments are the seales affixed vnto the same the Priest is the meane And speaking of all the faithfull to bee one bodye all endewed with one spirit they further say This marvelous coniunction and incorporation is first begonne and wrought by faith c. Afterward the same corporation is assured vnto vs and increased in our baptisme c. And for that we are verie vnperfect of our selues and therefore must dailie proceede forwarde that we may grow vnto a perfect man in Christ Therfore hath God appointed that the same incorporation should bee often renewed and confirmed in vs by the vse of the holy misteries wherein must bee considered that the said holie misteries doe not beginne but rather continue confirme this incorporation Heere wee demaunde howe it may appeare vnto vs that you broach not a new doctrine diuers and cōtrarie to our beleefe in Englande When you say that The Sacramentes chiefest force and virtue consisteth in this that they are heauenlie ceremonies which God hath sanctified and ordayned to be administred in his church First as markes to know when God doeth imparte the vitall or sauing grace of Christ vnto all that are capable thereof And secondlie as meanes conditionall which God requireth in them vnto whom he imparteth grace And in another place It is a braunch of beleefe that Sacramentes are in their place no lesse required then beleefe it selfe For when our Lord Saviour promiseth eternall life is it any otherwise then as hee promised restitution of health vnto Naaman the Sirian namely with this condition washe and be cleane And in another place you say that both the Worde and Sacraments haue generatiue force and virtue By which your wordes we are greatlie amazed that our Church hath left out in her creede and the Reverend Fathers haue not taught vs that which is as you say the chiefest force and virtue of the Sacraments Where finde you that God ordained the Sacramentes to tell vs when God giueth grace and that they are meanes conditionall and as necessarie as faith Teach vs we pray you by holy scripture these three chief virtues of the Sacraments The furthest that they say as we gather is to make them seales of assurance by which the spirit worketh invisiblie to strengthen our faith and they seeme to square their faith by holy scripture which propoūdeth Abraham to be an example of the true way of iustifying a paterne to all the children of God namelie that he was first iustified by faith and after receaued the Sacrament as a signe to bee a seale of the righteousnesse of his faith Shew therefore whether we ought not to goe further then our church or holy scripture vnlesse we will leaue out the cheefest virtue of the Sacramentes Moreouer they say the grace of God is not in the visible signes you say they are meanes cōdicionall they say that grace which they cal this marvelous coniunction and incorporation is first begon and wrought by faith and afterwarde is assured and increased by the Sacramentes you say

the sacraments haue the generatiue force and virtue as well as the worde They say that the substance of all Sacramentes is the worde c. and that the Sacraments are the seales affixed to the same which being borowed frō the Apostle out of the former recited place Rom. 4. doeth argue that the necessitie of the sacraments is not comparable to that of faith For by this he proueth Abraham to be iustified by faith without workes because he first was iustified by faith before he receaued the Sacrament and that the Sacrament was but a signe and seale of his faith so that he excludeth the Sacrament as it is a worke and as you call it a morall instrument of salvation from all copertenership with faith in the matter of iustification You make it a meanes condicionall and no lesse required then faith it selfe and of as absolute necessitie as that to Naaman wash and be cleane These things good Mai. Hoo. we can not reconcile and therefore we are sutors vnto you to ayde vs in the same and to make your minde to appeare not to ouerturne the fayth of our church and heerein to tell vs where you finde that the grace of God is tyed to anie time as namelie the time of the Sacramentes or whether the Sacramentes teach vs some other time and whether the cōdition of Sacraments make not for the additament of workes vnto fayth in that which the English church holdeth to bee onelie properlie of faith And lastly whether such speaches be not meerelie popish accursed mixture of humane follie giuing a further grace to the blessed Sacraments then God hath ordayned and heerein explane vnto vs whether a man dying without faith yet receaueth the Sacraments can be saued or that a man hauing faith neuer any sacrament may not be saued or whether anie cā be saued if the condition of salvation be the vpright and perfect performance of all moral dueties which God requireth expreslie in his word The Church of England affirmeth that By the malice of wicked mē which are ouer the administratiō of the Sacraments the effect of the things ordayned by Christ is not taken away or the grace of Gods giftes diminished as touching them which receaue by faith and orderlie the things offered vnto them which for the institution of Christ and his promise are effectuall although they be administred by euill men Wherevpon the Reverend Fathers define a Sacrament to bee A reverend and holy misterie ordayned of God wherein hee by his holy worde and promise doth both stirre vp practise the faith of his people and by the operation of the holy ghost increase his grace in them c. And of the intention of the church they say This is the verie dungeon of incertaintie The heart of mā is vnsearcheable if we stay vppon the intention of a mortall man we may stande in doubt of our own baptisme You seeme to speake otherwise where you say Wee must note that in as much as Sacraments are actions religious and mistical which nature they haue not vnlesse they proceed frō a serious meaning and what euerie mans priuate minde is as we can not know so neither are we bounde to examine therefore alwayes in these cases the knowen intent of the church generally doeth suffice and where the contrarie is not manifest we must presume that he which outwardlie doeth the worke hath inwardlie the purpose of the church of God Heere we desire to be instructed how these two opinions can stande togither The one which sayeth the Sacraments are effectuall through the institution of Christ and his promise the other which tyeth it to the good meaninge of the Priest or of the Church Againe the one saieth the intention of the Church is the verie dungeon of incertaintie to make vs doubt of our Baptisme the other that the Sacraments haue not the nature to be religious and misticall without a serious meaning that is the intent of the church These things we pray you to reconcile and therewithall to shew vs howe the intent of the church can giue them their nature to be actions religious misticall and yet our reverend Fathers say they bee holy misteries ordayned of God Resolue therefore whether the virtue of the sacrament depende vpon the institution and promise of God or vpon the good meaning of the Priest or of the Church or vpon both and whether they cannot haue the nature of religious actions and misticall without the intent of the Priest or of the Church and so whether the church may ordaine a misterie or that the misteries ordained of GOD haue not their nature and forme with the presupposed intent of the Church Whether God in ordayning these misteries were holpē by the serious meaning of the church or did except that they should not bee misteries without the liking and allowing of the church by their good meaning And lastlie whether your assertion be not meere poperie a humane invention and an inducement vnto that which is called fides implicita that it should suffice a man to beleeue as the church beleeueth c. And herewithall shew vs what comforte we can haue in the vse of the Sacramentes if they can not be actions religious and misticall vnlesse they proceede from the intent and purpose of the church beeing as our Reverend Fathers esteeme the verie dungeon of vncertaintie The Church of Englande professeth That Baptisme is a signe of regeneration by whiche as by an instrument they which rightlie receaue baptisme are ingrafted into the Church the promises of remission of sinnes and of our adoption to bee the children of God by the holy spirit are visibly sealed our faith is confirmed and by the force of the calling vpon the name of God grace is increased Which the Reverend Fathers of our church doe expound in this sense The children of the faithful are borne holy and notwithstanding by nature they be the children of anger yet by Gods free election they be pure holy This is Saint Paules vndoubted doctrine which notwithstāding he neuer despised the Sacraments of Christ. And that A man may stande in the state of saluation out of all daunger of damnation before he be baptized And the contrarie to this they call fearfull doctrine injurious to thousands of poore infants blasphemous against the bottomlesse mercie of a sweet and tender Father who hath saide I will be thy God and thy childes not adding anie condition of baptisme if it can not be had as it ought and heerevpon they affirme that Sacraments make not the couenantes but only seale them and that God hath not thus inthralled his grace that there is such necessitie that either women or all sortes of persons should dispense the holy misteries to the ende that no poore creature might be cast away for wante of it nor taught his church in his worde but quite contrarie as we see by

persist They affirme and that constantlie that there is a general errour and defection of the church of Rome foreshewed in the scriptures and therefore cald them Apostataes and matched them with Atheistes seeing it is nowe made manifest to the world that they are departed from the doctrine of Christ his Apostles c. you call them backe and say we gladlie acknowledge them to be of the familie of Iesus Christ and to be helde and reputed a parte of the house of God and a limme of the visible church of Christ. And therefore you are bolde to affirme that we seuer not our selues from the church we were of before In the Church we were we are so still We are here in a streight except you helpe vs out For if we beleeue you we must thinke our reverend Fathers to haue misledd vs all this while either of malice or ignorance if wee beleeue them we must thinke that Mai. Hoo. is verie arrogant and presumptuous to make him self the onelie Rabbi We pray you therefore to reconcile these two iudgemēts that men fall not away to looke back into Egypt or else explane your minde further shew vs some cleere demonstration of that you intende whether you be not sorrie that wee are departed from the vnitie of that Sea or that you thinke they erre not in matters of faith that all these great disputes about the church and bloodie dissentions and conflicts come by ouersight and too great zeale and for want of knowledge in our Reverend Fathers in all those millions of learned men that haue franklie giuen their blood for the detection and departing from that church as from Antichrist and an Apostata And heere wee pray you to shew vs out of divine trueth your rule to discerne a Congregation to bee a member of the visible Church whether whosoeuer holdeth anie one professeth trueth differing from infidelitie may be reputed a member of the visible church and whether you meane by infidelitie nothing els but that which is not taught by the gospell of Iesus Christ and they which holde anie part of that which you call supernaturall trueth that is as we take it of that trueth which men know no otherwise but by the worde of God they are not fallen into an Apostasie c. And heere we craue your iudgement of the Turke how your rule fitteth them For as wee thinke by reading his Alcoran hee holdeth some mayne pointes of christian trueth as namelie these There is one God and that he created all things without labour or wearines and that he preserueth the things created faith is giuen and augmented of God He forbiddeth the adoring of saintes and images affirmeth God to hate and abhorre the arte of Magicke and teacheth the resurrection of all men from the dead Shewe vs now whether the Turke be not of the familie of IESVS Christ. Lastlie we pray you to open vnto vs that seeing you saye the church of Rome is the house of God whether a man continuing in that house and neuer comming out to holde the true beleefe of Christ as we doe in England but renouncing and persecuting it to the death whether such a one may be saued if yea why need we seuer our selues to so great trouble from her grosse and grieuous abhominations if they bee not such as can extinguish our faith to our destruction If no why doe you not ioyne with our Reverend Fathers to abandon that house where there is no saluation Of Gods house it is said It is the grounde pillar of trueth The habitation of God by his spirit and the glorious rest of Christ. In which God loueth to dwell and wherin he hath delight and the same hee will blesse in victualles Priestes and Saintes So that such as be planted in that house shal florish in the courts of our God they shall still bring forth fruite in their age c. Shew vs wee pray you whether these thinges may bee applied to the church of Rome rightlie and essentiallie and what comfort wee may haue by departing from her communion if shee be a parte of the house of God c. and these things we pray you to averre not by humane witnesse but by that which commeth down frō heauen So did Elias Againe out of this article ariseth another noe smal scruple where our church constantlie affirmeth that The visible church is that cōgregation of faithfull people wherein the pure worde of God is preached Wherevpon the Reuerend Fathers of our church publickely teach that The true preaching of the word is an essential note of the church For which cause they interpret the parable of the seede in this sorte God is the husbandman the Preachers of the worde are the seede sowers the seede is the worde of God the grounde is the hearts of men c. And Therefore Christ did sende his Apostles to preach the Gospell that thereby they might be brought to the beleefe of the Church And To this preaching he annexed such force of his holie spirit that it had greater strength and authoritie then all the eloquence then all the wisedome then all the learning then al the pollicie and power of the worlde and that not onely in the Apostles but also in the Preachers who haue restored the pure light of the Gospell in these latter dayes euen in those countries whose Princes and people were professed aduersaries therof vnto which accordeth the holy scriptures calling this preaching A gifte of the grace of God to admonishe euery man and to teach euery man in all wisedome that wee may present euery man perfect in Christ Jesus Which thinges maketh vs much to muse what you meane where you say Sith speach is the verie image whereby the minde and soule of the speaker conveyeth it selfe into the bosome of him that heareth We can not chuse but see great reason wherefore the worde that proceedeth from God who is in him selfe very trueth and life should be as the Apostle to the Hebrewes noteth liuelie and mightie in operation sharper then any two edged sworde Now if in this and the like places we did conceaue that our owne sermons are that strong and forcible worde should we not euen heereby imparte euen the most peculiar glorie of the worde of God vnto that which is not his worde For touching our sermons that whiche giueth them their verie being is the will of man and therefore they oftentimes accordinglie taste too much of that ouercorrupt fountaine from which they come Heere Mai. Hoo. we are hampered with your words because they seeme to vs contrarie to the iudgement of our church We therefore desire you hartilie to resolue vs what you meane in this place by sermons whether it be not all one with that our Fathers call preaching of the word consisting in teaching and exhorting by the worde of God secondlie what you meane by the being of