Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	father_n	holy_a	prayer_n	6,254	5	6.1558	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A54912	Occasionall discourses 1. Of worship and prayer to angells and saints. 2. Of purgatorie. 3. Of the Popes supremacie. 4. Of the succession of the Church. Had with Doctor Cosens, by word of mouth, or by writing from him. By Thomas Carre confessour of the English nunnerie at Paris. As also, An answer to a libell written by the said Doctor Cosens against the great Generall councell of Lateran under Innocentius the third, in the yeere of our Lord 1215. By Thomas Vane Doctor in Diuinity of Cambridge.	Carre, Thomas, 1599-1674.; Vane, Thomas, fl. 1652. Answer to a libell written by D. Cosens against the great Generall councell of Laterane under Pope Innocent the Third. aut	1646 (1646)	Wing P2272; ESTC R220529	96,496	286

Angels receiue man cōuerted from his old errour againe they the Angels holy soules and blessed spirits endeauour saith he to reconcile God to such as shall serue him and pray iointly with vs contra Celsum l. 8. pag. 432. Againe infinite millions of Angels make intercession for maukind Againe who doubts but all the holy Fathers assiste vs with their prayers in Num. c. 32. hom 26. Now make him blow hot and cold with the same breath and speake for you saying all prayers are to be offered to God c. nor will our religion permitt vs to supplicate or pray to any other whomsoeuer Loe you haue made him quarrell with himselfe but what haue you gotten saue onely by contradicting himselfe you haue destroyed the credit of the Authour you depend vpon while you hurt not vs who want not a number of others to relye vpon Were it not better to saue his credit saying with S. Hierome Origene Methodius Euscbius and Apollinaris write against Celsus and Porphyrius Consider with what arguments and with how many gliding problemes they dissolue the things which were wouen by the spirit of the Diuel and because sometymes they are compelled to speake they speake not what they thinke but what they are forced by necessitie to oppose to the Doctrine of the Gentils For saith he not in the same booke that had he discourered that Celsus had by Angells vnderstood true Angells as Gab. Mich. c. he would then according to his abilitie haue said something to the matter by reiecting the word Adoration and the actions of the Adorer that is offerings and Sacrifices and the giuing of the worship of Latria so that it is manifest that he denies not the prayer to the Saints absolutely but onely in the sense in which they held their false Gods were to be prayed to and adored which according to Plato they tearmed Angells and gaue them soueraigne honour as is cleare from S. Aug. in his 10. booke of the Gitty and is partly cited aboue where they are tearmed lesser Gods For saith he of the Angells in the same place though they doe descend c. and offer the prayers of men yet are they not at all so called Gods as that we are commanded to adore them or to worship them with diuine honour And to this we all say so be it contenting our selues to afford them an inferiour honour sortable to seruants which beares no proportion to that soueraigne and diuine honour which we reserue for the Great Master alone Cos. Tertullian in his booke of Prayer chap. 12. THese prayers are vaine and deseruedly farelted which are made without the authoritie and precept of Christ or his Apostles For such prayers be not for religion but superstition Car. Sinceritie is still desired The authours words are still either so indirectly or sparingly put downe that it is impossible they should beare out his sense and make it intelligible to the Reader Tertull. in this place speakes not one word of Prayer to Angels or Saints either in expresse tearmes or can the exigencie or scope of his meaning be wrested to it He speakes onely of certaine friuolous formes which he points out in particular leauing no place to mistake what he meant or obseruations in prayer which he saith rather conduce to superstition then to religion as is saith he the custome of some to put of their cloakes to pray c. Marke his owne words as they lye and then indge what reason you haue to make vse of them Hauing described some manner of praying he goes on saying But sith we haue touched one certaine point or part of an idle obseruation I will not fayle to marke out the rest caetera to which vanitie is deseruedly exprobrated because they are done without the authoritie of any precept either of our Lord or his Apostles What was it then which was reputed vaine as being done without authoritie c. what but the rest caetera And what was the rest was it happily prayer to Saints No not any syllable intimating that but the rest was such as was the vnum aliquod to witt emptie obseruation such then and not prayer to Saints must the rest be in good consequence nor dare any deny it since not I but the Authour himselfe a lyne after concludes it saying as is that of certaine persons putting of their cloakes to pray this clause cleares the doubt and yet is left out and not looked vpon Let vs now examine whether any fairer dealing or more sinceritie be vsed in the next allegation out of the same Authour In his Apologet. ch 30. Cos. THese things I can aske and pray for of no other but of him who I know is able alone to giue them to me and whom alone I serue Car. Nor here againe is there any mention made of Angels in tearmes nor doth the subiect oblige to any thought of them Nor are indeed the Authours words putt downe fairely as they lye though the sense is almost the same These things saith he I can pray for of no other then of whom I know I shall obtayne them because euen he it is who alone doth giue and I am he whose part it is to impetrate being his seruant who obserue him alone Marke onely what these things were which he prayed for in whose person he spake and to whom and you will easily discouer this place conteynes no difficulty at all The things he prays for are as himselfe declares in the precedent lyne Long life to all Emperours asecure raigne a safe Pallace stronge armies a faithfull Senate an honest people a peaceable world c. He speakes it in the person of Christians who were accused by the Ethnicks that they prayed not to their Gods for the Emperour Where vpō he makes an Apologie for them to the Emperour shewing that though they pray not to their false Gods who were but indeed dead men and therfore lesse powerfull then himselfe yet he retorts vpon the Ethnicks in these tearmes but you are irreligious who seeke safetie to witt by the meanes of false Gods where it is not you demand it of those that are not able to giue it ouerpassing him in whose power it is and so concludes that Christians haue not recourse to their Gods as they haue but to the true God in these words But we call vpon the eternall God the true God the liuing God because he alone is able to giue it He I say not the false Gods whom alone he excludes from that power of helping the Emperour without hauing any thought or making any relation to the Angels or Saints at all which yet he should haue done to haue made this place vsefull for your purpose as you must needs confesse Cos. S. Athanasius l. 4. against the Arrians NO man should pray to God and the Angels to receaue any thing but ought to petition the Father and the sonne c. Car. Still is the Authour surprised as it were and forced to speake

celebrate together the Memories of Martyrs with a religious solemnitie Religious worship both to excite imitation Sacrifice to be made fellow partners in their merits and to be helped by their prayers yet so as we offer sacrifice to none of the Martyrs but to the verie God of Martyrs Altars though we erect Altars in the Memories of Martyrs c. If then saint Augustins mynde be made good by so many and so manifest places To what end should the D. come yet coldly dropping another seeming place out of the said saint or to what purpose should I answere it Howbeit lets yet heare him speake for euery ones full satisfaction S. Augustin l. 2. contra Ep. Parm. chap. 8. Cos. IF the Apostle had said you shall haue one for your Aduocate and I will pray the Father for your sinnes what good or faithfull Christian would haue endured it or accompted him one of Christs Apostles and not rather haue looked vpon him as vpon an Antichrist Car. I answer first that by Aduocate which is indeed in the text Mediatour the D. will either haue S. Augustine after the Apostle to meane the Principall and immediate Mediatour Mediatour which if the Apostle had assumed to himselfe he had iustly bene looked vpon by all good Christians not as an Apostle of Christ but rather as an Antichrist or els the mediate lesse principall and impropre Mediatour which he must meane if he would haue the place to make any thing against a Catholike and to his purpose And such certainly the Apostle both might be and was and yet is farre from incurring the censure of an Antichrist sith S. Iohn was doubtlessy a Bishop and euery Bishop if we beleeue S. Paul Heb. 5. is taken from among men and is ordayned for men in things pertayning to God that he may offer both guifts and sacrifices for sinne which is to be some kind of Mediatour or Aduocate representing their miseries pleading their cause and mediating their reconcilement to God by Christ the onely properly true Mediatour of Redemptiō In this kind of Mediation are the Priests employed saith Ioel c. 2. Betweene the porch and the Altar shall the Priests the Ministers of our Lord weepe and shall say spare ô Lord spare thy people and giue not thyne inheritance into reproach that the heathens should rule ouer them and thus finally concludes S. Aug. in this place doe all Christiā men commend themselues mutually to one anothers prayers So farre is he from speaking against mediating in this second sense or consequently from apprehending that derogatorie to Christ our prime Mediatour I answere secondly that here againe is a whole clause left out whence the clearing of the difficultie was to be demanded to witt As Parmenianus in a certaine place put a Bishop Mediatour betwixt the people and God And how did Parmenianus put Bishops Mediatours c marrie as purifiers and iustifiers of men by their owne vertue and iustice since they the Donatists allowed vertue and effect to the Sacraments and Sacrifice onely according to the qualitie of the Minister or offerer which was indeed to assume to themselues the proper Mediation of Christ Iesus who onely of himselfe is able to appease Gods wrath against sinne as being our principal immediate primarie Mediatour and indeed our onely Mediatour of Redemption who by the right of his owne merits obtaynes grace forvs the others onely by him and by his merits Such a Mediatour it is manifest S. Aug. spake of in this place and such we admitt none but Christ alone who spake against the pride of the Donatists which forsoothe would haue no spott or vice to be amongst them or their fellowes as saith S. Augustine in the chap. immediately before which was a prerogatiue due to Christ alone who was that one and true Mediatour for whō none prayed he prayed for all as saith the said St. in this 8. chap. In fine one of S. Augustines principall designes in this place was to proue against the Donatists that they iniustly separated themselues from the Catholike Church vpon pretence of the wickednes of the Bishops and priests in the Church for dato that it were so indeed yet were that no iust cause of a diuision or schisme since be the Bishops and priests what they will we ought alwayes to be secure of one Mediatour Iesus Christ the iust whom we haue an Aduocate with the Father and he is the propitiation for our sinnes Hence I beleeue the weakest may obserue that it is not fairely done of Mr. Cos. to make vse of the mistaken sense of an obscure passage in an Authour to stagger the vnlettered who are not able to examine him while being examined he beares no shew of difficultie along with him COSENS S Irenaeus against Heresies 2. booke chap. 57. THe Church Catholike doth not inuocate Angels bnt purely calleth vpon God and Christ CARRE Still something is left out most important to the clearing of the difficultie S. Irenaeus his words are these Neither doth it to witt the vniuersall Church doc any thing by Angelicall inuocations nor by incantations nor by any other wicked curiositie these words by incantations nor by any other wicked curiositie are omitted but cleanely purely and manifestly directing prayers to God c. Now what doe these words incantations and wicked curiosities lead vs to but the old heretiques to witt the Symonians the Marcites Meandriās and Carpocratiās against whom he had spoken shewing here that the Catholike Church in working her true miracles did not vse their proceeding in working false ones which they did by the inuocation and superstitious naming of Angels to whom they ascribed the creation of the world by incantations and spells whereby they deluded many especially poore women robbing them of fortunes and honour with the exercise of innumerable villanies as is to be seene in the 9. 20. 22. and and 24. chapters of his first booke but by fasting and prayer performed chastely purely openly and without hope of lucre His words are That vniuerfall Church which is in euery place demanding by fasting and much prayer the spirit os life returned to the dead man who was giuen to the Saints prayers What is here yet I pray against the inuocation of Saints Cos. Origene against Celsus l. 5. ALl prayers are to be sent and offered vp vnto God by our Angel and high Priest who is the Prince and Lord of all Angels Nor will our Religion permitt vs to supplicate or pray to any other whom so euer Car. Answer First your choyce herein is not verie happie if you should make him stand vp alone against all antiquitie ingenous men would not esteeme his word were sufficient caution after his so many errours yea euen in this place where he destroyes Christs Diuinitie making him inferiour to his heauenly Father Howbeit if you admitt his authoritie vpon this matter so doe I and thus I produce him speaking of the Angels in the same place O