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A11271 A goodly dysputacion betwene a christen shomaker, and a popysshe parson with two other parsones more, done within the famous citie of Norembourgh. Translated out of [the] Germayne tongue into Englysshe. By Anthony Scoloker. Sachs, Hans, 1494-1576.; Scoloker, Anthony, fl. 1548. 1548 (1548) STC 21537.7; ESTC S117736 15,831 48

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expoūned by the Euangelist that he speaketh the same of the holygost whych all they shuld receyue that beleue in him Parson What I saye my thynke that thou smellest after Mātuanus that heretyke / wyth thy holyghost Shomaker Paule speaketh Do ye not knowe ● Cor. 3. that ye are the tēple of God and that the spyryte of God dwelleth in you And to the Gallath 4. Seynge ye are nowe become chyldren God hathe sente his spirite in to Gallat ● your hartes who calleth Abba that is be loued father He maketh vs ryghtuous accordyng to his mercy through the bath of renouacion / and the renewyng of the holyghost / whiche he hath powred haboūdauntly Timo● 4. in vs. And to the Romaynes in the. 5. chapter As the spirite nowe dwelleth Roman ● in you who hath raysed Iesus Christe from death parson I fynde no holy spirite in me you nor I are not noble inough therto Shomaker Wherfore are ye then called spiritual seyng you haue not the spyrite of God ye ought with good right to be called spyry●elease parson They be other maner of people then eyther you or I am whiche haue the spiryte of God Shomaker Ye ought not to haue respect vnto thē For God is no accepter of parsons It is Actes 10. also written The spirite of God shal rest Esay 66. ●pon a broken or weake harte Parson shewe me one I praye th● Shomaker Paull speaketh openly Who soeuer y● hath not the spyrite of Chryst perteyneth Rom. an 8. not to hym Parson Oh / trulye it is a very poore and myserable spirit / which ye Lutherians haue I thinke he is as blacke as a cole I praye the tell me what make ye wyth your holy ghost I beleue verely that he slepeth both nyght and daye by you for men can not so much as ones spye hym Shomaker Christ sayth Geue not that whych is Math. 7. holy to dogges neyther cast ye your pearles before swyne leaste they treade them vnder theyr fete Parson What are ye not ashamed to speake such ▪ Rude and Vncommelye woordes before me Shomaker I pray the sir domine be not displeased for it is the saying of holy scripture parson yea yea yea ye Lutherians speake much of Goddes woorde and it waxeth the ●enger the worse / I can not spye any amendement in none of you all Shomaker Christ say the Luk. 19. The kyngdome of God cōmeth not outwardly ▪ or wyth Luke 19. lokyng vp / that men myght poynt it wyth fyngers to sale here in thys or in that place is it / but it is inwardly in you that is it standeth not in outwarde workes Parson Men may perceaue that by your deuine seruyce Ye praye not nether go ye to the Churche nor to the dayly seruice nor in a maner to nothynge at all that good is Is then suche kyngdom Gods kyngdom amongest you Lutherians I beleue it is the great deuell of helles kyngdome Shomaker Christ speaketh The tyme shall come / Math. ● and is euen nowe that men shall praye no more vpon this moūtain nor at Ierusalē but shall praye only in spyryte and veryte Thys casteth downe and condem●neth your daylye seruice with also your numbred prayers For Chryste wholy and all abhorreth youre nombred prayers wyth youre outward mumblyng Where as he saythe Math. xv Thys people worshyp Math. 1● ●e wyth theyr lyppes but theyr harte is ●a●re from me ▪ parson And Christ sayth ye shall praye without Luke 18. ceasyng shomaker yea he meaneth to praye without ceasynge in the spyrite but Chryst dispyseth your prayer saying ye shall not make many wordes parson Gentle frende what is that for a prayer Math. 6. to praye in spirite and veritie teache me that same I praye the then shall I nede no more to say my mattēs nor myne other seruice shomaker Reade that lytle boke of Marten Luther intituled of the Christen lybertye which he dedicated to Pope Leo and there shall ye fynde it brefely declared parson I wolde rather that Luther wyth al hys bokes were burnt I neuer in all my lyfe dyd reade none of them nor yet wyll as I am aduysed shomaker What why doest thou iudge then parson Mary because he worshippeth not the saintes shomaker Chryst sayth Thou shalt onely worshyp thy lorde God and serue him onelye Math. 4. Parson Yea we must haue intercessours to god Shomaker Iohn sayth If any man haue synned we haue a mediatour by God / whiche is 1. Iohn ● Iesus Chryst who is ryghtuous who is also the peacemaker for oure sinnes Parson Yea thou speakest fayre wordes good fellowe but nede compelleth a man to begge yf thy legge were brokē / woldest thou not go to saint Wolfgange or if thou haddest the tothache woldest thou not pray to saīt Aposonia shomaker No trulye Chryst sayth come vnto me al Math. 11. ye that labour and are laden and I wyll case you Where then wyll we seke better helpe ye haue made Idoles of the saintes ād so ye haue seduced and brought vs frō Chryst Parson Yea I haue hearde wel Inough of you Lutheriās that ye do neuer fast / doth Luthers holy ghost teache you that shomaker We are not commaunded of God to fast but God hath lefte it free Chryst saith when thou wylt faste annoint thy head Math. 6. and wasshe thy Face he sayth not thowe shalt or tho● must faste lyke our Romysh stepfather doth Parson Yea but ye neuer do fast Shomaker I beleue that he handycraftes menne do faste better yea although they eate 4. tymes in a daye then all the pryestes and shauelyngs of the realme It is manyfeste Inough I nede not to speake any more therof Parson Holde thy peace then and let me speake as concernyng fastinge that is the least faute but ye Lutherians eate fletshe on the fryday that the deuell of hell mought blysse you Shomaker It is not forbydden of God to eate flesh and therfore is it not sīne / so farre fourth as the weake people are not therby offended Math. 15. Chryst saith That which goeth into the Mouthe defyleth not the Manne / but that which commeth oute of the mouth defyleth the Manne / as whooredome murther aduoutye theft false wytnesse bearing bacbyting c. And Paule 1 Corinthi What soeuer is sold in the market 1. Corinth that eate Parson yea saye what ye lyst but good olde customes whych haue bene kept and obserued aboue foure hondreth yeres / are not to be despysed Shomaker Chryst sayth Iohn in 14. I am the Iohan. 14. waye verytie / and the euerlastynge Lyfe / but he saith not I am the custom Their fore must we sticke and cleaue to the verytie whyche is Gods worde and euen god hym selfe which endureth for euer more / But custome commeth of men whyche are Math. 25. all lyers / as the. 115. psal saieth which Psalm 115 sayinge dothe whole and all ouerthrowe
helde a councel how Math. 22. they might trippe him in his wordes and dyd send officers vnto him / with the offycers of Herode parson What elles Thus ought the heretykes to be serued Shomaker Oh lorde These true preachers wolde fayne bryng vs all to Chryste no man excepted ▪ And thow woldeste bringe both vs and thy selfe to the deuell Thou woldest fayne that the Fyre of Heauen shulde fall on vs Luk. 9. Heare what Chryst fayeth Luke 9. Do ye not knowe what chylderen of spyrite ye are The sonne of man is not come to destroy the soules of men but to saue them 2. Cori. 13. He hath geuen me power saith he not to destroy but to amēd 2. Cori. 13. Parson What I say I wyll euen the same also shomaker Fyre and swerde serueth not therto but the woorde of God Hebr. 4. Which is Hebre. 4. sherper then a two edged sworde Therfore if thou arte of God defende thy doctrine and lawes with Gods word which 1. Cor. 1. is the power of God 1. Corinthi 1. Parson All thys helpeth you neuer a whytte Shomaker Ye bringe not Gods worde / ye seke not the honour of God but your owne power honour and Ryches against whyche the worde of God speaketh ād therfore do ye persecute it Parson Yea thou pratest nothing elles but to here a manne when the harte is full then ●●nneth the mouthe ouer Luke ● Shomaker I maye well lyken you / lyke as Christ lykeneth the chylderen syttyng in the markett place / criyng one to an other and saying We haue pypes vnto you and ye haue Luk. 7. not daunsed We haue mourned to you ye haue not wepte Euen so is it with you If a man speake vnto you confortablye of the worde of God then do ye deryde it If a man do tell it you earnestlye / then are ye angry parson Although thow dyddest synge lyke ● Larke / thowe shalt not make me otherwyse then I am Shomaker Youre harte is waxen harde and stony as kyng Pharao Exodi Rede from ye. 7. Chapter to the. 15. who n●ther regarded no wonder nor places etc. Parson Thou haddest almost hit the prycke Shomaker Me thynketh that thou arte lyke the false off yeer Luk. 6. What shall I do the lorde wyll take the offyce from me I can not dygge and I am a shamed to begge Euen that same feare ye spyrituall menne also no exhortacion nor admonishing can helpe parson No man commeth to me vnlesse my father drawe him wyll you then conuert a man Shomaker Oh syr I loue to heare the same wordes with all my harte It is written Iob 15. without me canst thou do nothing / and further thou haste not chosen me but I haue chose the therfore lyeth it not in our power but it is God which must conuert vs. Which I do wysshe you all from the botome of my harte Parson When do they ryng in the church Katherin giue me my sirplys and tippet Katherin Well beloued master / go in pease I hope all thinges shal be well shomaker With the helpe of God now peace be with you beloued syr take no displeasure wyth me but pardon me if I haue offended you Parson God pardon and forgyue vs all our synnes shomaker Amen Parson Beholde how quicke these lay men are in tellyng of their tale to vs which are ●noynted I thynke that the deuel of hell be patched and clouted in the sho Skynne he hath so stricken me vpon my brest pla●e / that if I had not bene so depely learned he shuld haue made me ā asse therfor he shall make no more shoes for me / but Hans zobell shall be my shomaker for he ●s a very symple man and one that dothe not much reason of the scrypture / nor of ●he Lutheryans heresy which apperteyneth not to the laye people nether becommeth it them to dyspute with their soulekepers for Salomon sayth who soeuer walketh symply walketh well Ah the same saying ought I to haue layde to that dulheaded shomaker peraduenture he ●huld haue had nothyng to say thervpon / ●ut haue bene starke dome Katherin Ah master I feared greatly when I sawe you coud not ouercome hym wyth scripture that you shuld haue strycken hī vpon his pate with the slyppers Parson If I had not feared that an oproare ●nyght haue rysen among the comens / I shuld verely haue layd the slippers in his face so that neyther Paule no nor Christ hym selfe shuld haue swepte it from him in thre daies for all that he trusteth so muche in them Katheryn I maruell greatly how it commeth that the say people are so learned Parson If thou wilt know it I shall tell i● the. The cause is that the spiritualty is no more regarded Here afore times did oure holy father the pope of Rome wyth his by●shops forbydde such heretikes as Luther is according to the spirituall lawe and compelled them to recant lyke Ioan hus was serued at constance If men dyd now compell these preachers of the Gospell to holde theyr Peace then shulde i● be as good as euer it was and then shulde the spiritualty be honoured but when we go aboute to cause them to holde their peace then wyl they inmediatly dyspute with the pope and Bysshops whiche is a thing that neuer was hearde in the worlde before that such vyle parsonnes shulde dyspute with the moost holyest father whiche are not worthy to speke to his holmes but it shall shortly take an ende Although these preachers wyll not holde their peace they shall be compelled to holde they re peace for all that they lay Saynes Paulles wryting before them / and though they had Paules swerde also yet muste they lye doune and not so much as ones kycke when it pleaseth ones the Holye Father of Rome then must the laye people holde theyr peace also and then shall we come to oure former worthynes and prystyne honour Katheryn Verily Syr It were very good for every man dispiseth ād mocketh with you lyke the shomaker did euen now parson Hertofore shulde such one haue bene excommunicate but nowe muste we both heare and learne of the laye People ▪ lyke the pharisees did of Chryst good katherin I pray the call Iohan our coke he vseth much to rede in the Byble perchaunce he shall declare the scrypture better then I● he must seke me some sentences out of the scripture Katheryn Iohan Iohan / come to my master Iohan. Honorable syr what is your pleasure Parson Our shomaker hath vexed me very lōg and hath shewed me much● out of the byble lyke the maner of the Lutherians is / ye muste seke me oute some Chapter that I maye knowe yf he haue sayde ryghte or no that I myght conui●●● hym ●y scripture The coke Ye ought with ryght to knowe it your selfe for you haue longe holpen to examine the anointed To that we vse but the doctrine of scoles / and that which hath bene written and made by men and very lyttel the spirytual lawe which the holy fathers haue concluded in the councelles The coke It maketh no matter of that which the auncient fathers haue concluded in the cō●ell and what men whiche are comme in afterward haue written when the same lawe doctrine and writtyng is not out of y● woorde and spirite of God For the Prophetes Apostles and Euangelystes were men also Parson Ergo they myght also erre but the Lutheryans wyll not beleue it The coke No for Peter sayth 2. Petri in the fyrst 2. Petri. 1. Chapter That to prophet in the scrypture hath any ●●y●ate interpre●acion For the scrypture came neuer by wyll of man but holye men of God spake as they were moued by ●he holygost The false prophetes which bryng many euell sectes in that sign●fieth ●●en your spirituall estate order rule and all the muincyons of men without anye ●●●rde of God where with you daly go aboute Parson That is not spoken of vs but of oure auncyent olde predecessours ano sorego●rs The coke O ye foles ād slouth in harte to beleue Luke 24. all that the prophetes haue spoken Katheryn Harke Master doth the cocke bydde you Crowe ye wolde not suffer me to tell it you Parson O thou lowsy vyllayn wilt thou now teach me thou arte also one of Luthers knaues get the out of the dores ād come no more into my house thou vnshamefast beast I coūcell it the for best Shomaker Ha ha ha / I perceaue it greueth yo● yet / that the shomaker hath stopt so well your mouth left it not be so greate wonder vnto you for God suffred in the olde Testament sheapardes to declare hys worde even so now must ye pharezees ād shauelynges be taught of shomakers and robblers / yea the very stones ●hall call it in to your eares fareye well syr domine Katheryn I maruayle that you can take the payne to speake to such Rude beasts they neyther regarde you nor yet your holy oyntment Parso● I shall kepe me from him well inough thow wycked and excommunycate knaue take hede of thy fyre / nowe I wyll go to the Church and go you ●o the Market and buye vs a dosen of good quayles / for the chapleyn of my most reuerende Lorde the bysshoppe shall dyne here wyth more other gentlemen we wyll kepe a banket now Carye the byble out of the parlour and loke if the dyse are in the tables ▪ and prouide vs of a fayre payre of cardes or two Katherin It shal be done Syr wyll ye come home anone after the procession be done ▪ Parson Yea loke the meate be ready Katheryn yea forsothe Syr Amen