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A93277 Two books of Mr Sydrach Simpson, late master of Pembroke-Hall in Cambridg; and preacher of the Gospel in London. Viz. I. Of unbelief; or the want of readiness to lay hold on the comfort given by Christ. II. Not going to Christ for life and salvation is an exceeding great sin, yet it is pardonable. In the first book is shewed (besides many other things) 1 What unbelief it is that is here spoken of ... 7 Helps to attain readiness in beleeving. In the second book is shewed, 1 That unbelief is a great sin, and exceeding provoking unto God ... 7 God hath pardoned unbelief, and wil pardon it. Simpson, Sidrach, 1600?-1655.; Nye, Philip, 1596?-1672.; Loder, John, 1625 or 6-1673. 1658 (1658) Wing S3827; Thomason E962_1-2; ESTC R203574 187,195 298

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is under this work As the wax is said to receive the impression when the Seal is put upon it Or as the ground receives the seed when it 's cast into it As the Air is first inlightened and then scatters light abroad Object How can this be counted a receiving The very giving a power cannot be a receiving Answ To that I Answer in a word or two That this giving us power doth comprehend within it two things First Gods working Secondly The Answer or Effect of that work As a Workman that makes a piece of plate or any other piece of mettal that is ductile or that may be beaten forth his hammering of it makes it of that fashion or Image So Gods working upon a man to receive makes him to receive And the truth of it is my beloved That this doth alter our state For though we are distinguished from men unregenerate by beleeving yet our beleeving is distinguished by this working of the spirit And though there be phrases in the scripture which speak of Christs dwelling in our hearts by faith yet that whereby Christ comes to dwell and take possession of us is his Spirit We have more security of our perseverance and continuance in the state of Grace from this that we are laid hold on by the Spirit and wrought thereunto as saith the Apostle and are apprehended Then we have from this that we do apprehend and lay hold upon Christ Thy apprehension were nothing were it not for this that thou art made to do this by him that alters and changeth not And I speak this to this very end That though this work be never without a work of ours following of it yet notwithstanding the frame and habit of the soul the dispolition temper which we are cast into by the Spirit through the word is unto a man a better ground when he cannot act faith or when he doth act faith it is a better ground than any thing else It is a ground when he cannot and a better ground than any thing else For Mark it Thy acting doth but flow from this work and cannot be made out to be good further than this is in thee As we say in al other duties The Lord looks to the heart It is not the gifts but the will with which we do any thing that God takes pleasure in So I say here It 's not any thing that I have mentioned concerning faith But it is that spirit of faith so the Apostle cals it also that frame of faith An heart cast into that mould which makes al your acts to be accepted If upon any act of ours though those acts were inabled unto by Grace our salvation did depend it might be hazardous But it cannot be hazarded There is no possibility of falling away because the Holy Ghost the Spirit of the Son and of the Father doth work and hath wrought us hereunto to beleeve upon him and will maintain that work As a child if I may so express it because born of such Parents hath a right unto the Estate though it cannot plead nor speak to it self It is flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone So art thou one Spirit with Jesus Christ when thou art thus shaped and made to give up thy self when thou hast a tendency of spirit to God in all thy hopes when they heart and all within thee is unto Jesus Christ and thou takest all from him as he shall please to give it thee USE If Faith as it is thus in the understanding be a receiving or there may be so much gotten from Jesus Christ by the understanding and knowledg of him then I beseech you look unto the understanding There is a double reason that lies in the Text and in the Point that I have in hand By it you do receive as by a hand And in it is laid up as in an house or barn or treasure rich things from Jesus Christ It is his Cabinet and your Honor or it is your Treasure-house You have nothing to lay up the things of Jesus Christ in or you will not know where to lay them up if you have not a mind to know him Take heed to your understanding take heed what you beleeve Errors in the understanding hinder you from the getting of faith We live in the last and worst Age of the world wherein men make no Covenant with their understanding Job said that he would do so with his eyes that he might not look upon a Maid Yet that was lawfull But there was a snare laid in it Men keep not their thoughts from any thing that may be said pro and con against the Gospel of Jesus Christ So full of Adultery and unchastity are the minds of most that there is scarce any room for Jesus Christ to lodg in Let me but tel you thus much that so much as you are stuft with the things that are not according unto truth so much you keep out the things of the Lord Jesus If you do not beleeve the truth you may be damned So the Text saith in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians 2.12 That they all might be damned that beleeve not the truth That word All is put in to shew both how great the punishment is of those that do not beleeve As a fire grows hot by having much timber So the wrath of God is hot against such kind of Men It 's an increase of coles upon them God puts in All there because he would have men know how exceedingly he is provoked and that he will do nothing for them When Princes see whole Counties and Cities in a mutiny they take out one or two to punish and not al. And to shew you that if God do not damn you for receiving the truth yet you will be damnified for not receiving the truth That is you will be hindred Take heed that you miss not of receiving a full reward Why what will hinder them He reckons up the Errors of those times which are rank now as they were then that men do not abide in the Doctrine of Jesus Christ In 2 Joh. 10. If any man come unto you and bring not this Doctrine receive him not Nor bid him God speed for this wil hinder your of receiving a full reward And as the Apostle saith in the Corinthians You shall be saved it may be but as it were by fire it will cost you many an heart breaking and many a frown from God and many a sob and sigh when God opens your eyes that you should be so careless of letting things into your understanding which he hath made a place and treasure for himself Look you therefore unto your understandings Me thinks this should make a man very cautious yea very obstinate against Errors when he once understands that he must sustain so great a loss and be hindred from so great a gain by it As a man somtimes saith unto his friends If it were not for you I might
But most plainly in 2 Cor. 4.13 The Apostle speaks to this purpose Having saith he the same Spirit of Faith according as it s written I beleeved therefore have I spoken we also beleeve and therefore speak As the Apostle saith in 1 Pet. 1.11 That whatsoever the Prophets spake the spirit spake in them It was not they that spake but the Spirit of the Father that spake in them So the Apostle gives the Reason why he did deliver that Doctrin to the Corinthians because saith he it was suggested unto me by Faith and if you ask him how he came by that Faith he saith he had it by the Spirit It was not so much the Grace of Faith as it was the spirit of Faith which made him both to beleeve and speak It is indeed we that do beleeve As the Prophets Mouth and Lips and understanding were all used by the Spirit of Prophecy But as what they spake was put into them So what we do when we do beleeve is from the Spirit of Faith Having the same Spirit of Faith We beleeve saith the Apostle and therefore speak Beleeving is our act but it s by his vertue And that I may open this more plainly to you I shal insist upon these three Particulars I. That that Faith whereby we do beleeve is not of or from our selves but we receive it II. That in that act whereunto we are inabled by God we act as little as can be but are acted We are rather Receivers then doers III. That though we do beleeve never so little yet the least degree of Faith will give us Jesus Christ and all his priviledges As many as received him had this dignity saith he to be the Sons of God though they did but receive him For the First of these I. We cannot of our selves beleeve or receive Christ Therefore Faith is said in Ephe. 2.8 To be the Gift of God Not of our selves but through Grace ye are saved through Faith and not of your selves it is the Gift of God He laies no more upon Faith but only this that it was the means of our Salvation God was the cheif and principal and efficient cause ye are saved through Faith but even That you have not of your selves In Colos 2.12 It s called the Faith of the operation of God Even as the Heavens are said to be the work of his Hands and the Firmament in Psal 19.1 That is none could do and frame so glorious a thing besides himself We are not able to add one degree unto our Faith when we have gotten it and therefore we cannot obtain of our selves the least degree before we have it It is far more easie for a man to increase a stock then to get it In Lacke Luke 17 7. to the renth 17.5 The Disciples come and Fray Lord increase our Faith Our Lord tels them by and by a Parable that a Master doth not use to bid a Servant when ho comes from the feild to sit down but to waite upon him til he hath supped and he thinks not that the Servant hath any praise due unto him because he waites for his meat and waites at home as well as abroad And he makes this Conclusion of it when you have done all you can say you are unprofitable Servants This being spoken upon their desire of the Lords increasing of their Faith it holds forth thus much that Let us use al the means that we can for the getting and the increasing of our Graces yet that is a work which we shal never do of our selves We shal not move God to any thing nor do any thing that shal be an addition to what God hath done Now if we cannot add to the least degree of Faith then much less can we get the first degree of Faith I say beloved we cannot receive Jesus Christ For there is no room in our Hearts naturally for him All the faculties and places and capacities of our Souls being taken up with sin and self and with Satan In Rom. 1.29 We are naturally said to be filled with all unrighteousness We are born into the world as ful of sin as we can hold It is true we add to sin but it is because our capacity to sin is made greater by sin but as great as it is it is filled But we are ful of sin and therefore their is no room for Jesus Christ And if their were any room in our souls fit for Jesus Christ it being undefiled yet we have no Heart unto Jesus Christ He came to his own John 1.11 John 5.40 and his own received him not Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life Yea We cannot naturally but refuse to let Jesus Christ reigne over us For naturally sin hath our affections and is unto us as our selves A second nature and nature labors to preserve its self and therefore cannot but oppose Jesus Christ For his work is to take away sin Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world There are some material preparations unto faith as they are called whereby divers things that hinder Faith are removed in some measure And these are in the power of Nature A man may be in his Natural condition and have knowledg and yet that knowledg doth remove away ignorance which is a great hindrance unto Faith A man in his Natural state may be troubled for his sin and yet that trouble for sin doth take away pleasure in sin and that pleasure in sin is a hindrance unto Faith A man while he is in his Natural Condition may be in fear of the Judgments of God and thereby have the boldness and confidence of his presumptuous spirit somwhat abated These preparations these preparations I say are in our power But for al these a man may never beleeve upon Jesus Christ he may for ever be a stranger to him These preparations are not unto Faith as degrees of heat are unto fire There is not a necessary connexion between these and beleeving for a man may have them and perish as you know Judas had Much less are they the last disposition which immediately goes before Faith and least of all are they those things which get any thing at the hand of God But that which indeed doth prepare unto Faith properly that comes from the Spirit of Faith alone And so it 's said in Acts 16.14 That the Lord opened the heart of Lydia to attend unto the things which were spoken by Paul He opened her heart that is he opened her understanding to apprehend them he opened the things themselves that she might look into them he took away the prejudices that were in her thoughts against them She had by divers waies her heart shut up against the Apostles Doctrine even as a door in a Castle is barred that it must be broken open but the Lord broke al those bars Such thoughts as these were in her self That if she should receive such Doctrines she
Faith he small yet it makes us the Sons of God III. LAstly Though we beleeve never so little yet if we beleeve we shall receive this Dignity to become the Sons of God There is a receiving in the least degree of Faith That is that which the Text holds This term to Receive notes as little action as I said in the beginning as can be Only it notes as being in subjection a being continent or a vessel to put somthing into it As Gold and Jewels may be wrapt up and put into a filthy clout or rag So may this Grace of Faith into an heart that is exceedingly corrupted and defiled Again you know you use to say That the Receiver of stoln goods is not the principal offender he is only one that doth con●eal and preserve that which the other hath gotten Such a kind of thing is Faith he that doth receive is not the principal Agent As the Wax doth receive the impression of the Seal and yet the Wax doth no more than either Clay or Earth or any base Mettal as Lead would do only a compliance there is with the Seal And let mead further As Receiving notes little action in that respect So a narrow mouthed Bottle takes in but by little and little As the stone upon which the Rain falls is hard and but a little wrought upon and filled by it things that are hard are softened by little and little As the hard and stony Earth is softened by the little Rain that falls long upon it So now suppose a little Faith and this gotten the hardliest and come the slowest by that possibly can be to be as weak as can be in your spirits and to be as dull as is imaginable yet notwithstanding this shall receive a blessing from God even those great blessings in the Text not only to be a Son of God but to have such dealings from God as becomes a Child and God deals in this like unto himself according to the course which he took in charging us with the guilt of the first Adam For as we are conceived in sin that is as soon as ever we are conceived as Job saith but curdled and a span long we are accursed so soon is the guilt of Adams sin imputed So the very embrie and the least thing of Faith is that which God will bless The first conceptions of Faith are blessed as the first conceptions of a man are accursed because of the Fall So soon as ever we receive Christ so soon is the Righteousness of Christ the Second Adam imputed and passed over unto us He will not quench the smoaking Flax nor break the bruised Reed Matth. 12.20 There is great difference between flax and wood Flax is but a blaze when it is light and lasts not long And so it notes such a kind of Faith that is soon up and soon down exceeding tender and delicate soon discouraged and dismayed A Faith that is working by fits only and not such a Faith as is of a constant motion The smoaking of flax is less than the burning of it The smoak may be conceived to be such as either is offenlive unto the eye And so there is a kind of beleeving or I may rather call it of unbeleeving which is extreamly offensive unto God as smoak is unto the eye When we are alwaies unsatisfied when doubts beget doubts when God answers one objection and we take it up again and we over and over again with things that have no reason in them nor are fit to be spoken But suppose it to be smoaking flax Or In regard of its weakness which shall come into a flame afterwards which is capable of further encrease as the smoak goes before the flame yet the Lord will not quench it What is that he will cherish and nourish it For the Negative includes the Affirmative In John 6.37 He that comes to me I will in no wise cast out that is I will entertain him And as he will not quench the smoaking Flax so he will not break the bruised Reed Though Faith be as a Reed a very weak thing of it self though it be bruised and when it is bruised it will run into a mans hand as you know the Scripture useth that similitude concerning Pharoah Many waies do we pierce the heart of the Lord and grieve him with our Unbelief We beleeve after such a way as it troubles him to see us Though we be as a broken Reed that cannot support or be leaned upon So though thy Faith be such as is neither pleasing to thy self nor unto God and cannot carry thee through any Duty in Praying or Hearing or other Ordinance but as a man that leans upon a broken staff doth fall So in every Duty Thou prayest thy self into anguish of spirit and hearest thy self into troubles Now although thou hast such a Faith as this yet God will not forsake it but cherish it and not break it but bind it and fit it for Spiritual use Suppose a man doth by his doubts and cavils against God offend him as a Reed doth that runs into the hand yet saith the Text he will not break it that is he will strengthen it For that is an usual figure in the Scripture when the Text saith He will not do a thing to mean that he will do the contrary unto it As those that come unto me I will in no wise cast out but I will entertain and sup with them and make them glad with my presence In James 2.26 the Apostle tels you That that Faith that will save a man is such a Faith as hath a spirit with it Even as the Body without the Spirit is dead so is Faith without Works That which I bring it for is this That if there be but the least Spirit or breathing in Faith it is that which will save I say if there be but the least breathing in Faith it will save As men that are exceeding tender and careful of the lives of those that are sick when they seem to be as if they were gone and dead they will lay a glass to their mouths and if there be but the least breath or smoak come upon the Glass they will apply all manner of things that may recover them out of the swoun wherin they are So is it with God When thou thinkest thy self to be gone and those about thee think thou art gone and thou thinkest thou canst never recover thy self to any confidence of hope again yet God wil hold a glass to thy mouth and if there be but the least breathing towards Jesus Christ it shall pass with him as well as the noble Faith of Abraham did when he could part with his Child at the Command of the Lord which is the meaning of the Apostle in that place Here is refreshing and strengthning unto that poor Soul that cannot go to Jesus Christ but crawl as I may so speak That liveth like a man in the Sea and sees the
in thy own eyes Seest thou less worth nay no worth in thy self Doth the manifestation or communication of Grace from Christ make thee to abhor and loath thy self But I shall speak a little more to this particular by shewing you That where ever indeed there is true Faith there is humbleness of Spirit manifested in these four Particulars There are four Particulars I say wherein humbleness of Spirit doth alwaies shew it self in a Beleever First In modesty or sobriety Not assuming unto its self the doing of any thing or being the motive unto God or the Reason why God should do any thing to him Not unto us O Lord not unto us but to thy Name be the praise is the voyce of Faith according to that of the Psalmist Psal 115.1 I live saith Paul yet not I but Christ that liveth in me Gal. 2 20. I have done more than they all yet not I but the Grace of God in me 1 Cor. 15.10 And as the Psalmist saith in another case We got not the Victory by our own strength and sword but it was thy hand and power that gave us the Victory Psal 44.3 So the Soul saith That it is not its praying or hearing or any thing whereby it doth attain unto any favor with God or any degree of Grace but only because the Lord so pleaseth As there can be no reason given why the Rain should fall upon one ground and not upon another but only because the Lord Reigns and Rules in Heaven So there can be no reason given saith the Soul why I that am a barren desert should have any life rained on me but only because it seems good unto him That is the first thing Secondly The humbleness of Faith shews it self in a sense and apprehension of that condition which a man was in before he did receive Grace As a man unto whom a prosperous estate is sanctified he remembers his poor estate and low condition So doth a man now that hath received by Faith from Christ remember what state he was in when Christ first came and gave him somwhat and bestowed himself upon him Here the Apostle Paul speaking of it in 1 Tim. 1.13 I was a Blasphemer and injurious and a Persecutor and the chief of all sinners And Eph. 2.3 We were by Nature that is we that are now quickned and who are now raised up together with Jesus Christ Children of Wrath as well as others and under the Prince of the Air even the Devil who Ruleth in the hearts of such Children of disobedience as we were And therefore upon all occasions you know he is up with his conversion telling what an ill course he was in and what wickedness he was practising when the Lord lighted on him as you may see in divers places in the Acts. It is true indeed that there is a passionate sense of a mans misery which doth cease when a man hath received mercy that is a man cannot so mourn nor a man cannot so weep and lament as he did do yet there is an understanding sense A sense that lies upon the heart as sure though it works not after the same way and as cleer though it hath not the self same passions that were before Though the wound be healed yet there is a scar that puts in mind And though the Lord hath been pleased to take away the danger yet the Soul cannot but stand and wonder at that condition wherein it was when the Lord delivered it That is the Second Thirdly The humbleness which Faith works in the heart of a man is this The acknowledgment and owning of al that is in a man unto God As we are wont to write in the Books that are given us The Gift of such a Friend or such a Friend Or as Jacob said he came over that Brook with a staff in his hand and now he had so many bands But the Lord hath given them to him Behold I and the Children which the Lord hath given me Or as Jacob said at another time when his father asked him how he came by Venison so soon said he The Lord brought it to hand So the Soul acknowledgeth whatever he hath received to be of meer Grace 2 Cor. 5.5 He that hath wrought us hereunto is God who hath also given unto us the Spirit Mark the word We are wrought hereunto That is as if he should have said if there had not been more done by another than was by our selves if we had been left to do for our selves we had never come to this state of Grace wherein we are We were but like Clay and He fashioned us into this Mould He Who is that Even God He that hath wrought us hereunto is God that is Infinite Power and Wisdom was imployed in those things and no less would have done the thing And so the Apostle saith 1 Cor. 2.12 It is given to us to know the things that are freely given us of God Ask a Beleever how it came to pass when he and others sate under the same ministry and in the same seat and it may be had the same convictions that one turned his back upon God and the other came in that one held up weapons of rebellion against God and the other laid them down Or thus That the one is more wrought upon and the other is less that the one hath perfect Peace and the other stand disputing being filled with fears and jealousies and suspitions The Soul will answer that it was not for any thing that I did more than any other it was not because I was better than another but because the Lord put forth his Power upon me and hath more effectually called and wrought in me than he hath been pleased to do upon others That is the Third Thing Fourthly The Humbleness which Faith works in the Soul is this that it makes a man to be marvelously wary and faithful in the use of all that which he hath received by beleeving If he hath gotten peace he keeps it warily and charily If he hath gotten Grace he maintains it watchfully and he is faithful not because he doth not look upon himself as a Lord over it but he looks upon it as a Gift meerly given him If a man you know hath any gift given him by a Friend though it be very useful yet he is very chary of the use of it and will not use it but upon great occasions There is you know a great deal of difference between a mans receiving his life by Grace and pardon from the Prince and a mans receiving his life upon tearms of Justice He that hath his life upon Pardon is afraid if he ever comes again within the breach of the Law any more Whereas he that hath his life upon Justice thinks not of any such danger nor of any such evil that he needs to beware of So much carefulness so much Wisdom and Wariness as there is in the Soul to use what it hath received
a sin as is confessed of al hands to be hainous I say the name of a thing that is confessed of al hands to be hainous is given unto those things which the Holy Ghost would set forth to the ful As for example In 1 Sam. 15.23 The sin of Saul is called witchcraft Rebellion is as witchcraft Saul's sin was not wichcraft But only witchcraft was a confessed known sin To set out Saul's sin Samuel calls it so So that the greatness of the sin of Covetousness may appeare the text calls it Idolatry As if it should have been said The worship of another God provokes not God more to Jealousy then the love of the world doth And mark what he saith afterwards in vers 16. For these cometh the wrath of God upon the Children of disobedience The word is il translated disobedience for the wrath of God comes not upon al that disobey him but the word signifies upon all that are intractable upon all that wil not be perswaded and drawn from their sinning against God Why doth not the Apostle say the wrath of God will come upon the unclean Person but upon the Children that are not to be perswaded that are stubborn hearted The Reason is this because Covetousness is one of those sins which makes a man to be incapacious stout-hearted obstinate irrational and not to be subdued by any of the ordinary means 〈◊〉 which God brings mens thoughts into subjection 〈◊〉 ●●●self As the wise man saith concerning the 〈◊〉 that she is a deep pit and there is no perswading men from her though she lead a man like an Ox unto the shambles So the Holy Ghost saith there is no making a Covetous 〈◊〉 leave his course til the wrath of God meets with him And it s not only in that place called Idolatry but you have as ill names given it elsewhere James 4.4 You Adulterers and Adulteresses know you not that the love of the world is enmity unto God It is called Adultery And as Adultery doth break the bonds between the Husband and the Wife And as Adultery is a sin that is committed when there is no need because the party hath a remedy which God in the state of marriage hath given So the love of the world strikes at the knot at the uniting Graces Faith and Love It puts a man into a Condition wherein if in any he is capable of a divorce from God If I would say there was a possibility of a mans falling from Grace I would say so of Covetousness and Idolatry because both these are called Adultery which doth dissolve the bond What need you take care when God doth What reason have you when God makes it his work to provide for you as he doth for the Lallies of the Fields than which you are much better What reason is there then that you should set your selves to that business Is it not enough that you have God And that God wil be sure to find you all the stock that he wil have you to work withal for him It is Adultery And mark what follows The friendship of the world is enmity against God That is A Covetous man doth as it were send an Herald of Armes and bids defiance against God himself In 1 John 2.15 If a man loves the world the love of the Father is not in him Mark it As it is an unnnatural thing for the Child not to love the father that begat him so it 's an unnatural thing for a man not to love God And yet Covetousness will make a man to be so unnatural Sometimes you shal find in the spirits of good people a carelesness of God The indearedness that they had to him at another time is not to be found upon them They are not tender of his displeasure They are not desirous to live in his favor What is the Reason What is it that makes a Soul so unnatural It is because his Soul is So taken up with the things of this world And that you may yet see further the evill of this sin know that it keeps Gods love from a man For if the love of God be not in a man that loves the world then the love of God is not shed abroad in the heart of that man that loves the world For whom God loves they shall certainly love him again But above all that which is the great Motive and with which I would perswade you Is this You ought to be conformable to the wil of God Either his will or yours must rule Either he or you must be acknowledged to be the wise and right Disposer of things If there be wisdom with him and that all things are under him and his power Why are you not then contented with that which is his allowance to you It is fit the Physitian should prescribe the Dyet and not the sick person It 's sit the Master should set down how he wil keep and not the Servant how he wil be kept by the Master Conformity to the wil of God doth extend not only to spiritual things so that a man may not sin against any moral precept but unto lawful things so that a man should think it best with him according to Gods way of dispensing to him And there is no reason in the world why a man should think that he is dealt hardly with if his portion be but smal for was not the state of Jesus Christ very low He became poor he had not whereon to lay his head Were not those Princes as I may cal them that sate upon the Throne Judging the twelve Tribes of Israel I mean the Apostles and the primitive Saints Were not they in hunger and nakedness and in want of all things cloathed in Goats and Sheep Skins of whom the world was not worthy Will it not content you that you are kept in the same manner that God kept his Son while he was in the world Object You will say Therefore Jesus Christ was poor because by the want of all things he was to satisfie Answ But for whom was it that he was to satisfie was it not for you If it was for you Is there not reason that you should be contented to be poor if he please Shal the Creditor be willing that the Surety should pay his debt and shal not the Principal or he that is the Debtor be willing himself to part with that which he hath Jesus Christ It is true did merit by the want of these things But what did he merit He merits this among other things that you should be an Example that he had taken the sting and misery out of poverty and the want of all things As we are therefore tempted that God may shew that Jesus Christ conquered Satan so we are therefore poor that though our sins have robbed us yet there is no curse in our poor Estate Let me therefore for a conclusion of al at this time stir you up that you would not desire after much