called the Ievves the seed of the vvicked the seed of the adulterer and a false seede in one respect vvhen in other respects they acknovvledge them to be the seed of Abraham Iacob and Israel and so a true seed and people of the Lord. Esa 1 4. and 57 3 4. with 41 8. and 45 19. and 58 1. Hos 2 1 2. and 4 13. Esa 63 16 17. and 64 9. Ier. 31 36 37. Hof 4 6 12. and 3 4. and 14 2 3 4. And endles it vvere to recount the many speaches and severall considerations of things thus spoken of in the Scriptures Christ is vvithout Father and vvithout mother Heb. 7 3. and yet he hath Father and mother Luke 2 48 49. Ioh. 1 18. and 2 3. Christ vvas put to death in the flesh but quickned in the spirit 1 Pet. 3 11. Abraham is unrighteous in himself but righteous by fayth Rom. 4 3 5. The apostle Paul and all the regenerate serve the lavv of God and the lavv of sinne the one vvith the minde the other vvith the flesh Rom. 7 25. Peter is a disciple an Apostle and yet in other respect is by Christ called Sathan Mat. 10 2 and 16 23. A leprous Ievv is a true man and an Israelite but a corrupt diseased man to be put and kept out of the host of Israel till he be cleane Lev. 13 and 14 with 2 Chron. 26 20 21. Num. 12 10-15 The Temple is the house of God yet is made a denne of theeves Mat. 21 13. The Emperours of Rome Babylon and the other nations are Kings and higher povvers ordeyned of God Rom. 13 1. with Rev. 17.10 and Dan. 7 17. yet are they also in other respect Beasts Lyons Beares Leopards c. Rev. 12.3 13 1 2 with Dan. 7 3-6 So likewise the beast vvas and is not yet is Rev. 17 8. And a number the like may be observed in other places of the Scriptures compared together Novv to conclude this poynt if these things the like about apostate Churches and the mixture of mans inventions vvith Gods ordinances in apostasie be distinctly and carefully regarded they may be through the mercie of God some good meanes to stay people from Anabaptistrie other ill courses by the consideration of the things that are to be observed on the one hand and to bring men more soundly to separation from the apostasie of Antichrist by the consideratiō of the things to be observed on the other hand Somevvhat as it pleased God to give me to discerne I observed vvrote tending this vvay long since as may be seene in the Ansvver to Mr. Iacob Where also I noted my wonted using of this caution thereabout in respect of this or that estate as also may be seen in the Apologie where I spake with the same cautiō p. 109. lin 31.32 pag. 7. vvhere I spake of a double consideration of Christians in one respect true and in an other false as also of salvation now had in the Church of Rome pag. 13 and 47. vvhich necessarily implyeth the people of God and his covenant to be there For vvhosoever are saved they are the people of God and under his covenant in Christ But so much and so particularly I observed not then as since it hath pleased God to manifest thereabout God openeth his vvil the mysteries of his vvord vvhen and as he pleaseth that vve may still perceive and acknovvledge vve knovve but in part and that we may be earnest in prayer by all meanes indevour to grovv in grace and in the knovvledge of our Lord and Saviour Iesus Christ And thus much I thought at this tyme by this occasion to write unto you hereabout By which you may perceive hovv they vvhich for these things speak of us as if we were going back to England might by this colour also say vve are going back to Rome And you may consider vvith your self vvhether the people that lived in the Prophets tymes and were set against them in those dayes might not vvith such pretences and collections have sayd that the Prophets had ben declining to the apostate Israelites when they called and esteemed them to be the people of God acknovvledged the circumcision had in the apostasie to be true circumcision c. But novv I vvill proceed to their next objection For the sixt and last exception of theirs vvhich is about having the counsel help of the English Church at Leyden to vvhich therefore may be referred the ninth and the other three particulars annexed unto it in the printed copie note here as in the other before that they mentiō not the ansvvers that vvere then given hereabout As namely that vve vvould permit it though for some reasons vve absteyned from desiring it and sending for them about the matters in hand or giving our cōsent so to doe Of which poynt I shall vvrite more hereafter But first I would here knovv why they never speak of this that vve were constent to permit it Or vvas our permission of it a denying of the practise of it as novv they object in the printed copie Did Paul deny that vvhich he spake by permission though for some cause he did it not of commandement 1 Cor. 7 6. Or did Moses deny the practise of that vvhich he permitted though for good cause he vvould not enjoyne it Deut. 24 1. This thing then might have ben better observed and regarded of them then it hath ben specially seeing they knovve vve made question of the lavvfulnes of doing any more in this case then onely to permit it and shevved also then divers reasons thereabout some vvhereof I vvill novv mention As 1. that now the other Church and we were in peace together and if by this occasion the peace betvveene us should be broken they should not say of us that vve sent for them our care being vvhat in us layd to nourish peace betvveen us and to prevent cut off all occasions of division c. 2. That the Church of Leyden was in the same errour with those of our people who desired their help VVhereupon vve vvished it should be considered vvhether vve might approve of any to come in such case but such as vve knevv to hold and maynteyne the truth according to the vvord of God 3. That former experience vvith others might also justly cause us to be vvell advised and circumspect vvhat to doe in this behalf VVhich vvhen vve vvrote of to Leyden them selues acknovvledged that it vvas such as might justly make us cautelous but vvithall they vvrote hovv vve might esteeme better of them then of the other in divers respects as being more studious of our peace and more carefull of the cause of Christ and that whereas the other would have brought in new doctrines and fayths amongst us they if in any thing they opposed any of us Note here the terme of opposition thus used should doe it in defence of the common and
against us afore they had thus vvritten and given them forth And this I thought good here to mention together vvith that vvhich is before noted about it that both themselues and others may by this occasion duly consider of their estate and dealing Pa◠54 c. And here for this purpose also it vvill not be unfit in this place to annexe the judgment of Mr. Iunius concerning the Church of Rome as I sayd here before I vvould VVhich the Readers shall do vvell duly to consider both for their ovvne better information and for the better discerning and judging of the opinions and differences that are at this day-thereabout not onely among the Anabaptists and such as are affected Anabaptistically but even among Protestants also our selues and others differing in some things about this matter Thus therefore it is as followeth THE IVDGMENT OF M. FRANCIS IVNIVS concerning the Church of Rome Lib. singulari de Eccles contra Bellarminum cap. 17. And in his vvorks printed in fol. p. 1018.1019 c. Of the Church of Rome BEing to treat of the Church of Rome vve wil first unty the knot of the aequivocatiō of the word before we determine of the thing it self that all men may better perceiue what it is that is at this day called in question amongst us For very many are deceived vvith the homonymie or aequivocation of the verie word and unavvares insnare themselues and others by the ignorance of the deceitfulnes in the speach The church of Rome therefore is properly so called or abusiuely by the misterming or abusing of the name both as it is called a church as it is called the Romane church For as it is called the Romane church sometymes it properly signifyeth the companie vvhich is at Rome as Paul spake vvriting to the Romanes sometimes it signifieth abusiuely all the churches on the earth that cleaue to the Romane church according to the forme of doctrine and constitution thereof But vve vvill treat of the church as it is indeede the church of Rome and the things vvhich vve shall speak of this church the same may the godly reader by proportion understand of the church so called by abuse of speach Now as it is called a Church vvhich thing chiefly is in controversie it is so termed three maner of vvayes as a subject as an accident growing to the subject and as the subject together vvith that his accident As a subject it is the simple or single Church of Rome As an accident growing upon the subject is the papacie or the papall hierarchie vvhich they call ecclesiasticall As a subject compounded with his accident it is the church of Rome become papall or under the Pope that is to say corrupt as I may so speake by that lavvles or unnaturall shoot of the Pope springing out of the stock Novv of each of these vve vvill consider so briefly as may be one after another The Church of Rome when it is considered as a subject it hath tvvo parts the pastors and the flock of Christ for vvhich church the Apostle of old gaue thanks to God by Iesus Christ because her fayth vvas published throughout the vvhole vvorld Rom. 1 8. And for vvhich vve also dayly aske of God in our prayers that he vvould informe it to vvorship him by his spirit in the Gospel of his sonne to establish it in fayth Neyther doe vve deny this subject to be at Rome by the mercie of God even at this day because vve trust there is God calling persons called and the calling it self yet in her the meeting of vvhich things together in one giveth being to a church Chap. 8. c. as before vve shewed But touching the papacie or the papall hierarchie which they are vvoont to call ecclesiasticall vve doe not say that it is the church properly so called but an accident grovving unto the church and such as covertly vvorketh against the life and health of the Church That it is not the church properly is proved by the very definition of the papacie and of the Church of God For the papacie according to his generall is an order the church is a companie or an assemblie The papacie by his difference is an order positiue humane or from men and naught The church is an assemblie divine or from God by divine authoritie vvith reason united together Novv those things which differ both in their generall and in their essentiall difference and in their necessarie conditions or properties they cannot be one and the same thing And that the papacie is an accident grovving upon the Church experience it self speaketh For the subject is before his accident which is contigent and separable The church vvas many ages vvhen the papacie vvas not The papacie came to the church contingently beside the being of the Church and so may be separated from it as at this time also there are churches vvhere the papacie is not there vvill be churches still hereafter vvithout the papacie Therefore the papacie is not the church but it is an evill grovving up in the church a pestilence a dropsie the gangrene in the bodie deceiptfully working against the life and health of it and therefore most noysomely eating up the liuely and wholsome moysture of the church But of this vvhole matter vve haue spoken in the 3. Controversie in this fourth we are to speak of it hereafter Therefore concerning the other vvhich remayneth let us see whether the papall Romane church or that which is of the pope be the church The opinions vvhich are about this matter are divers The popish generation cry out vvith full mouth that it is absolutely the church Others not beholding a different regard of the papacie from that vvhich is the church deny it to be the church VVe relying both on the nature of the thing and on the authoritie of the Scripture doe put a difference The nature of the thing doth teach that the church is one thing and that the papacie is another as vve spake a litle before The authoritie of the Scripture teacheth the church but it teacheth not the papacie therefore they are divers things For they delude undoubtedly I say they delude vvhich require at our hands one definition of the subject of the accident as of one singular thing or obtrude it on us For thus must vve say The papall church as it hath that in it vvhich belongeth to the definition of a church it is a church but as it hath in it the evill grovven unto it which vve call the papacie in that respect it is not a church but a faultie defloured and a corrupt church and dravving on to destruction Let us make it playne by a similitude The bodie it self is one thing the corruption or putrefaction in the bodie another thing and the corrupted or puttrefied bodie another thing The bodie is the subject the corruption or putrefaction is the evill accident cleaving unto the subject the corrupted or putrifyed
bodie is compounded of them both There is both the bodie and putrefaction in the putrified bodie So is a bodie that is svvolne vvith the vvater causing the dropsie Both are together and yet so together as eyther one of the two or both together must needs perish If the nature of the bodie be stronger the corruption and dropsie vvater decayeth but if the corruption or dropsie prevayle there is most certaine destruction of thē both So is the church of God for in it self it is the bodie of Iesus Christ If a deadly disease grovve upon it both are then together the bodie and the disease in the bodie If the purging medicine of the grace of God for nothing is here naturall be of the more efficacie the disease then is vanquished and decayeth but if the disease prevayle then both of them the bodie and the disease must needs come to an end For such is the condition of the disease it both feedeth it self on the dodie decaying and destroyeth it self together vvith the bodie After this maner therfore doe we esteeme of the church of Rome vvhich they call the papall or popish Church There is the Church there is the papacie and there is the papall Church As there is the Church it is the subject of God as there is the papacie there is the disease of man as it is the papall church there is a fight betvveen the church and the papacie that will destroy eyther one of them apart or both together If God shall giue it the purging medicine of his grace by meanes vvhereof the papacie the accidentarie evill decaye and perish it is vvell but if the papacie that most faultie and corrupt order and deadly accident prevayle it vvill bring destruction to both of them both to the church and to it self by the judgment of God And this novv in the memorie of our fathers and our ovvne vve see to haue befallen many churches vvhich claue fast unto that Romane church For when it seemed good unto God more clearely to inkindle the torch of the gospel and to scatter the papall smokes by his spirit there remayned churches returning by his grace to a better constitution and stronger health that vvhich is of the pope departeth vanishing avvay through his ovvne corruption but when as God sent not that purging medicine of his divine grace into the bodie of any church then the popish corrupt blood got strength more and more which vvill be to that church deadly destruction unles God of his mercie provide a remedie In the remembrance and conscience of this benefit doe our churches fitly sing vvith the Prophet Blessed be the Lord which hath not giuen us for a praye unto their teeth Our soule is escaped even as a bird out of the snare of the foulers the snare is broken and we are delivered Our help is in the name of the Lord c. Psal 124. VVherefore in my judgment they speak preposterously vvho aske vvhether the church be in the papacie because on the contrarie it should be asked vvhether the papacie be in the church For the subject is not in the accident but the accident in the subject vvhose being is an in being or to be in a thing as men commonly speake And that the papacie is in the church as the order or estate of apostasie in the house and citie of God is as certaine as that of the Apostle is certaine 2 Thes 2. that the man of sinne the sonne of perdition sitteth in the temple of God vvith his vvhole order or ranke of apostates and not on the other side that the temple of God consisteth in that order and number of apostates vvhich is a thing most straunge furthest off But the terme of the papacie taken doubly and aequivocally deceiveth them in such fort as here before vve shevved concerning the Romane popish Church For under the name of the papacie vvhich is a foule corrupt order they comprehend the subject it self which is annoyed vvith that corruptiō not distinguishing aright between these things As therfore if any should deny that to be a bodie which lyeth in a deadly sort svvollen vvith the vvater of the dropsie or should affirme that vvater which choketh the bodie to be the bodie it self should in both these be deceived in his judgment so also are both deceived as vvell they vvhich deny it to be the church because the papacie is in it as they vvhich avouch the papacie to be the church it self vvhich we haue before disproved The papacie is a poyson in the church vvhich poyson must needs be vomited out if it vvill be preserved or els the church vvill be extinguished by it if it suffer that poyson to prevayle and possesse all the veynes of the bodie But how can she be the church will some say in which the papacie is To witte as there is the bodie in which a disease vvorketh But because the papacie is a deadly corruption the more that the papacie getteth strength the more the church is vveakned the increase of the one is the decrease of the other And hence it cōmeth to passe that in the churches vvhich are called popish some are more healthie some more unhealthie then others the more healthie are those which haue lesse of the papacie more of the church and those are the more unhealthie which haue more of the papacie lesse of the church and of this kinde I doubt not that church to be vvhich at this day is at Rome For it had long agoe giuen up the ghost if God by the imposition of his grace and long suffring had not nourished and kept it vvarme Notvvithstanding that vve may giue content unto their mindes vvhich doe not yet reach unto these things or thinke that they are more subtily then truly spoken of the church vvhich they call the papall or popish church let us ansvver this question in fevv vvords from the regard of all particular churches as they are among men or in consideration of things humane Everie church vvhich in deed is a Church is considered tvvo vvayes on Gods behalf as they speake and on our behalf On Gods behalf it is altogether a church vvheresoever there is found a companie called of God vvith his calling by the spirit and the holie Scripture and the ministerie of persons ordeyned for holie things and divine actions On our behalf there is no Church at all although it be so of God as vve haue sayd to vvhich there doth not cleaue corruption concerning the persons things actions and finally the vvhole ministerie of man ordeyned by God And that vvhich is on Gods part is not taken away by our default so long as it seemeth good unto the Lord to acknovvledge it for his Church call it with his calling by the spirit holie Scripture the ministerie For shall the unbelees of mē saith the Apostle Ro. 3.3 make the sayth of God without effect shal the vveaknes of mā make voyde
and actions divine from humane good ones from evill true ones from false and the degrees of these also amongst themselues For as of things actions so also of persons some are corrupting through ignorance infirmitie or malice vvholly or in part others are corrupted euen in the simplicitie of their hearts as the Scripture speaketh and of these there are a great number of vvhom it vvere ungodly to esteeme that they vvere not of the church of God Of such as doe corrupt we must take heed Mat. 7. of the corrupted vvho yet are still corrupted vve must haue compassion But the Church verely is not to be judged of the maner of either of these for Christ saith not ye shall not knovve the Church but by their fruits of doctrine and life ye shall knowe them Mat. 7.20 And vvithout doubt they doe very unvvisely who judge of the truth of a church by the particular life or doctrine of any men vvho ever they be especially of private men for the calling of God maketh the church not the assenting ansvver of the men that are in it as on the other side the church ceaseth not to be a church for the refusal or denial of men vvheresoever the calling of God is Novv let us come to the second demaund VVhat is the dutie of those vvilt thou say that are in the Popish Church and see the grievous corruptions of it Their dutie is such as of those children vvhich dvvell together vvith their adulterous mother for God used this similitude in Esaie and Ieremie as vve haue seene before A vvise sonne vvill even from his heart abhorre the sinne of his mother he vvill vvith speach and signe call back his mother from evil and he vvill absteyne himself from it and in all things he vvill cleaue to his father he vvill stand to his judgement he vvill obey his vvil and vvhile he can by reason of his mother he vvill cleaue unto her next after his father but vvhiles by reason of her he can not doe it vvith good conscience for the spirituall and bodily injurie of her Closet or Inner roome he vvill betake himself into the chamber of his father vvhere also the church is the mother of us all Gal. 4.26 For this is not a good consequent if one depart from this or that church therefore he doth altogether departe from the church He but trifles vvho doth so from a particular conclude universally A part of the flesh if it be divided or cut asunder from another part by a vvound received is not straight vvay to be thought to be separate or cut off from the vvhole bodie for it is cutte asunder and the mouth of the vvound openeth but neyther part is therfore disjoyned from the bodie A godly sonne therefore ought to cleaue to his father and mother joyntly so long as vvith good conscience he can but because he cānot vvith sound fayth and conscience haue fellovvship with the unfrutefull vvorks of darkenes Eph. 5 11. he rather leaving his mother cleaveth to God his father our Lord Iesus Christ then that he vvill defile himself vvith those foule deedes of his mother And this did our auncestors religiously vvhom the popish tyrannie for some ages hath exercised The godly vvhich vvere at Rome and other vvhere in the church vvhich they call the Romane church abusiuely first learned to abhorre even from their soule the sinnes of their mother vvhen once they began to haue right understanding by vvords and signes they modestly called her back from her naughtie deeds vvhiles she vvould beare them they carefully absteyned themselues from all communication of evill yet in all things cleaving to their father from vvhom in vvhom by vvhom for whom are all things standing to his judgment and obeying his vvill finally they did so long cleaue to their mother next after their father vvhilst by her they could so doe vvith intire fayth and conscience and their ovvne salvation But vvhen they could not longer vvith good fayth and conscience so doe by reason of the violent tyrannie and the spirituall corporall injurie of their furious mother then being ashamed with her shamefulnes resting silent they betooke themselues into their fathers bosome and his inner roome albeit that she pursued them outragiously least they being ashamed of her should be sayd to shame her as strumpets are usually vvoont to doe For which causes I doe humbly beseech God the Father of our Lord Iesus that he would both by his saving calling informe direct and care for his church and vvhatsoever belongeth to his church that he would also teach everie one that is in it his truth and the truth of his church and that he vvould so vvorke as they vvisely absteyning from all evils especially from those vvhich the sonne of perdition and author of the apostasie hath brought in and taking heed of the spirit of lyes the efficacie of his errour they may religiously cleaue unto the Father and his good things in everie of them and to their mother next after the father or so farre as she accordeth vvith the Father that increasing in his truth pietie fayth loue they may bestovve and employe all their studies to the edification of the church the salvation of all and the glorie of that our heavenly Father c. God the Father and the Lord Iesus Christ by that eternall spirit of his eternall truth bring to passe that the wiles of Sathan being driven avvay vve may all grovve dayly in Christ in the church and in the truth of Christ and the Church and that vve may more and more confirme one another in loue unfayned to his glorie and the common salvation of us all Amen HItherto Mr. Iunius VVith whom agreeth Amandus Polanus noting some errours of Bellarmines about Antichrist in his Cōmentarie upon Ezech. 39. at the ende thereof pag. 733. VVhere he sayth thus The Messias of the Iewes is not Antichrist but a false Christ whereas the great Antichrist of whom the Scriptures foretell shall professe himself to be a Christian and under the name of Christ fight against Christ because he must sitte in the Temple of God 2 Thes 2.4 in the Temple I say not Iewish or at Ierusalem but Christian that is in the Christian Church as Chrysostome teacheth and Theophylact Ambrose Hilarius Hierome Theodoret Oecumenius Augustine and Thomas Aquinas also See the testimonies sayth he in our Catholick Symphonie chap. 23. Thes 3. And Bartholomeus Keckermannus speaking in a treatise of his of the properties of the church inferreth thus thereupon and sayth Now if we examine the Popish church according to these proprieties it will appeare that it is not a pure Church but verie corrupt like as a rotten apple is in deed an apple but corrupt as a man corrupted with the plague is a man but not a sound man Keckerman Praeparat ad sacram synaxin pag. 83. And divers other the like sayings out of these and other