taught his holy Prophets and seruants to vtter in their prayers and that this is the reason why there be so many prayers prescribed in the booke of the Psalmes and in other bookes of the Scriptures that whatsoeuer thing befall a man wherein he is in the feruent affection of his heart to pray vnto the Lord if he haue in memorie the spéeches which holy men in such distresse vttered it is a great help vnto him if not he may help his memory with a booke To this you reply that touching the vse of sentences and phrases of scripture you could easily consent but that ye perceiue I would not agrée with ye in certaine points the first that this is required only at the hands of Gods children with promise to be heard and accepted I wonder with what eyes ye can sée that I would not agrée with ye in this thing I put ye out of doubt I hold assuredly that none haue promise to be heard and accepted but Gods children though they vse neuer so much the sentences of Scripture in their prayers The first hinderance of your consent is remoued The second is that ye sée I would not agrée with ye that the same spirit doth now teach Gods childrē to pray which taught the Prophets holy men in other ages I professe vnto ye that I hold it a wicked opinion to deny that the same spirit doth nowe teach Gods children to pray which taught the Prophets c. and so the second let is remoued In déede héere you and I dissent that I hold that as our faith is wrought by the word of God so is it nourished and quickned vnto prayer and euery good work by the same and that the holy Ghost hath not only taught matters by the Prophets Apostles but also spéeches and phrases sit for to vtter y e same And you hold that because the same spirit now teacheth to pray which taught the Prophets Apostles that either we may not or we néede not vse their spéeches The third stop remaineth which is that I take it God should be delighted with words and sentences You greatly mistake it and do but cauill for I shewed my minde not that God would regard words sentences but we should be holpen and comforted by them Thus the third and last hinderance is also remoued and now you may consent that in our prayers we may vse the prescript formes sentences and phrases of the word of God To my next wordes where I sayd the reason why there be so many prayers prescribed in the booke of the Psalmes is that whatsoeuer distresse befall a man c. you reply yée thinke I halt greatly that our question being about Idolatrous leiturgies I séeke to shrowd my selfe vnder the vse of Canonicall scripture Indéed this would be a learned question whether idolatrous leiturgies be idolatrie or whether it be not idolatry to pray an idolatrous praier who would looke for so childish a shift you know our question is about the reading of a praier when one prayeth And if it be not idolatry to vse the praiers of the scriptures euen in their prescript forme then all read praier offred to God as a sacrifice is not idolatrie I reason thus it is not idolatry to pray the Lords praier or any other prescript forme deliuered in the Canonicall scriptures therefore it is no idolatry to vse a prescript forme of praier which is framed after the rules of true praier as to aske of God alone through the onely mediation of his sonne and for no matters but such as he hath promised to giue Yée say it is not true doctrine that those Psalmes and Scriptures were written that we should vse in our praiers the words there set downe Your reason is because there be other vses I doo confesse there be other vses but that might yet be a speciall reason why there be so many praiers prescribed Then yée say yée do not disalow the speaking according to the word of God but that we might not affect so much the phrases of spéech as the true féeling of our wants He that hath not the féeling of his wants in praier but affecteth phrases is but an hypocrite But ye are in a vaine opinion if ye thinke the vse of the phrases and sentences of scripture being fitly applied is any hinderance either to the féeling or opening our wants because where skill or memorie faileth I would haue them vse the helpe of a booke I am you feare papistically affected vnto words and sentences I haue already shewed that this is not to affect the words and sentences but the instruction the support and quickning which our faith receiueth by those words sentences And this doctrine is not as you charge it disagréeing from the counsell of the Holy ghost which willeth vs to continue in praier to striue in praier nor contrarie to Dauid which said O my soule c nor to Paul who teacheth that the spirit helpeth our infirmities and maketh request for vs. But your doctrine which saith we must continue in prayer therfore we may not vse such helps the spirit dooth helpe our infirmities and maketh request for vs therefore we may not be holpen by the praiers or by the words of the holy scripture is phantasticall for the Holy ghost doth helpe our infirmities and teach vs to pray by the written word You thinke it were hypocriticall worshipping of God to take helpe by a booke when we know not what to aske If a man know not what to aske he shall be able to vnderstand little by the booke But a man may know what he should aske and yet not so well able to expresse the same without helpe both for memory and feruencie Stinted praiers yée say are as Cushions for idle papists hypocrites and Atheists I graunt that such people doo abuse all the best things shall the godly therefore be debarred from the vse I doo teach that whether a man of himselfe pray without a booke or vpon a booke if he pray not in spirit with faith he dooth but offer the sacrifice of fooles his praier is abhominable Therfore it is but your lauish spéech when ye say I giue libertie to the lame sacrifices on the contrary if a man pray in faith vpon a booke or without a booke it is true praier and such as God heareth God will haue no strange fire put vpon his Altar say you I graunt it is so but praiers framed by the rules of scripture and offered vp in faith are not strange fire Yée wish all men to take héed of this craftie doctrine and I wish all men not to be to hastie in receiuing new phantasticall opinions Your answer vnto those two Psalmes which I noted were giuen as a prescript forme of praier to be vsed of the Church and the forme of blessing prescribed to the Préests to blesse the people withall Num. 6 is more then friuolous For touching the first which is 92 appointed for the
to enquire out and to reuew the lawes of GOD and stirre vppe all the Subiects vnto more diligent and carefull kéeping of the same goeth also verye currant among manye Whereas indéede it denieth a great parte of that power which GOD hath giuen to Princes For shall not the Christian Magistrate driue the negligent to heare the worde Preached shall hee not punish the wicked despisers blasphemers Heretikes Schismatikes Idolators and such like And howe can this bee doone but by lawes made and established Yet Browne the roote of this heresie who hath by his writings seduced the rest dooth make verye great shewe in this matter The kingdome of Christe is spirituall and not set vp by the arme of flesh and blood but by the Holy-ghost The Subiects of Christe come willinglye of theyr owne accorde and not by compulsion None of all the godlye Kinges durst compell any to the worship of God And that all the Kings of Iuda which did reforme religion did it by a spirituall power as being figures of Christ Indéed the kingdome of God is spirituall all the power of Kings in the world cannot conuert one soule vnto Christe that is doone by the Holy-ghoste through the liuelye worde of faithe Neuerthelesse the ciuill power is an outwarde meane to driue men to heare the Gospell preached and to obey the discipline Christes subiects are franke and willing so farre as his holye spirite and word haue wrought and haue power in them to subdue and bring vnder euery high thing which exalteth it selfe against God but before men bee conuerted compulsion euen with penalties is a meane to bring them to that whereby this regeneration is wrought after conuersion to God there remaineth still a great lumpe of corruption which is to be kept in and bridled with some force I will make the matter cléere by the chastisment which the Scripture willeth Parents to vse to their children A father hath a sonne which is dissolute and proud whom he cannot reclaime by anye instruction or exhortation He correcteth him with stripes and forceth him to heare the word of God diligentlye being preached It pleaseth God so to blesse this indeuour of the Father that his Sonne is conuerted and dooth become a right godlye man Shall we saye he is none of Christes subiects because at the first he came not willingly The King is the Father of all his Subiects and by fatherly correction laboureth to bring them to goodnesse And where Browne saith that none of the Kings of Iuda durst compell their Subiects to the worship of God it is most false For beside the punishment of death mentioned in the dayes of Asa It is said statlye that Iosias compelled them to worship the Lorde God of their Fathers 2. Chron. 34. The Hebrew worde is Iagnabed which is he bound them or made them serue And finallye where Browne faith the Kings of Iuda did reforme religion by a spirituall power as figures of Christ it is absurd and false First séeing they did that which Christ himselfe did not for hee neuer reformed the state of religion Had they a spirituall power to reforme and to establish religion because they were figures and so did breake downe and roote out false worship and Christ himselfe who then should haue had all the power did not meddle that way Was not the high Préest as worthy to bee deposed as he whome Solomon did depose Were there not horrible abuses among the Préestes the Scribes and Pharisies which hee did but Preach against Againe will Browne be so foolish as to imagine that the kings of Iuda set bodily penalties by a spirituall power It is as cléere as may bee that they reformed by that ciuill Kinglye power which God gaue them Cyrus the King of Persia who made the Decrée for the building of the Temple in Ierusalem Ezra 1. was no figure of Christ Iehu King of Israel who destroyed the Temple the Idols and the Priestes of Baal 2. Kings 10. was no figure of Christ I conclude therefore that the wickednesse of Browne and of Brownists is great in thys poynt when they in thys manner abridge the power of Princes spoyle the Churche of her comfortable ayde and protection and thrust forward priuate men to take vppon them that which God hath not called them vnto And I doo intreate all Godly Christians and warne them in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ that they looke to these holie rules of Gods Word First with all humilitie modestie subiection and lowlinesse of mynde to kéepe themselues within the boundes and limits of theyr calling studying to be quiet and to doo theyr owne businesse 1. Thess 4. vers 11. Then that they turne not the holie Religion of GOD or the profession thereof into questions bitter disputations wrath contentions and vayne-glorious boasting but that in practise they followe after Righteousnesse Faith Loue and Peace with those that call vppon the Lord out of a pure heart 2. Timoth. 2. vers 22. Finally not in rigour and presumption to iudge to condemne and to treaddowne But with mercie with pittye and compassion to supporte the weake Gal. 6. This is the plaine straight paued and holye waye of GOD and whosoeuer maketh account of saluation let them take héede they bee not drawne out of it into crooked by wayes and into myrie flowes by presumptuous Heretikes and Schismatikes FINIS Faultes escaped Page 18. line 16. for being a dead trée reade bring a dead letter Page 25. line 13. for Béez reade Bréez Page 72. line 35. for prebyterie reade presbyterie Page 75. line 5. for man reade men Page 86. line 11. for bend reade bond AT LONDON Printed by Iohn VVindet for Toby Cooke and are to be sold at his shop in Paules Churchyard at the signe of the Tygers head 1590. 1. Timoth. 〈…〉 ath 4. 〈…〉 al. 51. 〈…〉 ath 3. 〈…〉 s. 17. â—â—gum 1. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G. G.
being necessary ought to be abhorred of true Christians especially such reliques as maintaine superstition but to reade other mens bookes to God in stead of true prayers and stinted seruice were deuised by Antichrist and maintaine superstition and an Idoll Ministerie therefore ought to be disallowed The prayers and worship of such Ministers and people as stand vnder a false gouerment are not acceptable nor haue any promise in Gods sight not only because they aske amisse but because they keepe not his commaundements G. G. Read prayer is one chiefe thing for which yee condemne our worship as Idolatrous and most detestable and for that cause to be annexed vnto this first accusation God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and in truth The Brow THE Scripture doth most briefely and pithily seuer all fantasticall deuises of man from the pure and sincere worship of God prescribed in his Word For seeing all flesh is grasse and the wisedome thereof foolishnes with God it must needes follow that mē earthly minded should please themselues in such pretended religion as agreeth nothing with the diuine nature of God It is needfull then in the worship of God that we thus alwayes consider with our selues we haue to do with God himselfe and not with men who is so farre differing from vs that those things which are most easy and pleasing vnto vs is a wearisomnes and abhominable sacrifice in his sight and although God dwelleth in the heauens in his diuinitie incomprehensible yet haue we a perfect rule whereby we know what is agreeing to his will namely his written word for that we may be heere taught 1. That all hipocrisy in such things as hee hath commaunded be carefully auoyded 2. That wee attempt not to do any thing in his worship whereof we haue not speciall warrant from his word of which sort we take all manner of stinted prayers offered vp as a worshipping of God disagreeing from the nature of God which seeth in secret and so agreeth with our fleshly nature that we can not pray as we ought so we seeke to help our selues with such a broken staffe wearying our selues with our owne deuises without any promise to receyue blessing thereby And therefore where you affirme that a man may pray in spirit and truth with sighes and grones proceeding from faith when prayer is read that is not true for if their sighes came from faith it would minister matter and prayer without a booke yea no doubt a troubled mind is the penne of a readie writer and to worship God in spirit is when the inward faith of the heart bringeth forth true inuocation and it is then in truth when simply it agreeth with Gods word But you would teach men in stead of powring forth their harts to help themselues vpon a booke yea to fetch their cause of sorrowing sighing from an other mans writing euen in the time of their begging at Gods hand We graunt that prayers conceaued without faith ar not acceptable yet may the same be called spirituall because it is the gift of the Spirit though not sanctified in him that so hipocritically mocketh with God But what maketh this to our question of stinted read prayers in Gods worship But say you to make read prayers only to serue for meditation is false doctrine wherein me thinke you offer great iniurie for we affyrmed that it had such vse as other of mēs writings haue But it seemeth you make little cōscience to slander vs and heere you fall into an error your selfe affirming and going about to proue that reading of prayers is not for meditation at all the proofe you bring is that Christ said not to his disciples whē ye meditate say thus Our Father but when you pray say thus c. Where beside that you make no difference between your owne Liturgies the holy word of God which is not of any priuate interpretation Besides this I say you seeme to proue that the Lords prayer all other prayers in the Canonicall Scripture serue not at all for meditation Well you haue hereby made the matter apparant that read prayers vpon a booke are as acceptable as faithfull prayers conceiued by the spirit vttered with vnderstanding You say that prayers read or conceiued being void of faith is but vaine babling we say the same but what of this forsooth you cannot see by what censure it can be called Idolatry If false worship cannot be called Idolatry let the first and second Commaundements be witnesses so that it is not our pennes but the penne of Gods own finger that hath iudged all deuises of man hipocriticall worship of Idolatry And although all the breaches of the first Table were not Idolatry yet you know that to worship our own deuises is Idolatry Is not prayer a speciall part of the first Commaundement and our Sauiour Christ comprehendeth all the foure first Commandements in this that we loue God aboue all the transferring of any part whereof from God must needs be idolatry But say you if we do thus hold withall that no idolator can be saued thē surely are all lost c. This is countrey diuinity if the Salt haue lost his sauour what should be sesoned therwith we hold that no idolator cā be saued without true repentance renouncing their sinne so far as God shall shew it thē yea craue with Dauid for pardon for their hidden secret sins And doo you thinke any man liuing is void of idolatry either inwardly or outwardly so long as we liue or that we can keep any one cōmandement in perfection The Lord therfore giue vs repentance for in some things we sin all Methinks this should not be M. Giffords language to be so ignorant in the principles of religion if you haue waighed our arguments no better then your preface it shall be greeuous to me to make any aunswer To condemne and ouerthrow read prayer yée bring as the ground or foundation of all your matter this sentence God is a spirit and to be worshipped in spirit Iohn 5. This scripture indéed is cléere and strong to cut downe all carnall worship as disagréeing from the nature of God And if any doo maintaine that the very bodily action of reading prayer is the worship of God it may fitly be alledged against them But to apply it in that manner which you doo against red praier is friuolous vnlesse as I say yée could prooue that a man cannot pray by the spirit of God with sighes and grones procéeding from faith when the praier is read vpō the booke or vttered after a prescript forme To this you reply with diuers arguments The first is that if the sighes and grones were of faith it would minister matter of praier without a booke This reason by a connection is drawne from and dependeth wholy vpon the force and effect of faith to minister matter of prayer It is to be framed thus If the prayer with sighes
and grones were of faith it would minister matter without a booke but the matter of their prayer with sighes and grones is not ministred without a booke therefore it is not of faith to make this argument strong and sufficient from the connection of faith and the liuely efficacie thereof to vtter prayer yée must adde two things the one that faith is perfect vnto this efficacie to minister matter of praier and néedeth no helpe The other that the effect and power of faith to minister matter of prayer cannot stand nor be ioyned with any outward helpes Vnlesse I say yée adde these two with the cupling together faith and the effect which are both of them hereticall there can be no necessarie consequence To make it yet more manifest let it be drawne into an other forme of syllogysme thus That which hath power and efficacie of it selfe to minister matter of prayer néede not any outward helpe nor cannot touching the vtterance of matter in prayer stand with any outward helpe But faith hath force and efficacie in it selfe to minister matter of prayer Therefore faith néeds not the helpe of a booke nor cannot stand with any outward helpe touching the vtterance of matter in prayer And so consequently the sighes and grones in prayer red cannot be of faith This consequence shall neuer be brought in vnlesse yée frame your argument after that sort So that both these fantasticall errors be included in your spéech the one that faith touching the efficacie to minister matter of praier is so absolutely perfect that it néedeth no outward helpe the other that it cannot touching prayer stand with any outward helpe I doo acknowledge that there be no sighes nor grones nor any praiers that can be regarded of God but such as come from faith I doo also hold that faith is not in any without some efficacie and power to vtter some matter of praier But now we must consider the degrées thereof for doubtlesse if there were in men a perfection of knowledge of faith and of quicknesse there should néed no outward helpe but the best come farre short of that Such as approche néerest there vnto néed so much the lesse any outward helpe But the most are ignorant weake short of memory dull and slow and néed all helpes to stirre them vp and to direct them euen as children that are to be stayed vp and led by the hand Praier indéed is a spirituall worke procéeding from faith which is a spirituall gift but yet it doth stand with outward meanes and helpes The Holy-ghost alone dooth worke faith in man but yet it commeth by hearing Rom. 10 Faith bringeth foorth prayer but we must consider that as the same faith commeth by hearing and is grounded vpon the word so is it cherished supported increased continued and quickened in efficacie and made more forcible vnto euery good worke by those helps of outward meanes For further confirmation ye adde yea no doubt a troubled minde is the penne of a ready writer Let it stand in forme of syllogisme thus That which is the pen of a ready writer néedeth not the helpe of a booke But a troubled minde is the pen of a ready writer therefore it néedeth not the helpe of a Booke The proposition is true if by the pen of a ready writer yée vnderstand an absolute perfection of knowledge chéerefulnesse direction memorie and vtterance But that was not in Moses Daniel Paul or any other Therefore héere againe yée runne vpon the rocke of an hereticall opinion of perfection Your assumption where yée say no doubt a troubled minde is the pen of a ready writer is vtterly false and your bold affirmation without scripture is not enough séeing there be many so perplexed and confused in the trouble of their minde and oppressed with ignorance that they cannot pray nor know not what to vtter which when they haue instruction and consolation ministred vnto them by some godly man or if that chéefe help faile by reading vpon a booke poure foorth teares and supplications Your next reason is in many words which yet I will repeate To worship God say you in spirite is when the inward faith of the heart bringeth foorth true inuocation and it is then in truth when it simply agreeth with Gods word But you would teach men in steed of powring foorth theyr hearts to helpe themselues vpon a booke yea to fetch the cause of their sighing and sorrowing from an other mans writing euen in the time of their begging at Gods hand I will also drawe it into a syllogisme to the end it may the better be iudged of None worship God in spirite but they which from the inward faith of the heart bring foorth true inuocation that is such as simply agréeth with the word of God But all such as read vpon the booke the prayer which they pray fetch the cause of their sorrowing from an other mans writing in the time that they pray and doo not from the inward faith of the heart bring foorth true inuocation Therfore none that reade their praier vpon the booke doo worship God in spirit The proposition I assent vnto as sound and good for it is no true inuocation except it agrée with Gods word It is not to worship in spirit vnlesse it procéed from faith out of the heart But your assumption which is that all that reade the praier which they pray doo not from the inward faith of the heart bring foorth true inuocation I cannot allowe séeing yée bring nothing for proofe thereof but that which is most friuolous For whereas yée say in the first part of your confirmation that we would haue men in stéed of powring foorth theyr hearts to helpe themselues vpon a booke yée speake vntruly and foolishly For we wish men to vse the helpe of a booke that they may the better poure forth their hearts to God Being such as are not otherwise throughly able The next part of your confirmation is euen to as great purpose when yée say We would haue men fetch the cause of their sighing and sorrowing from an other mans writing euen in the time of their begging at Gods hand For how fondly doo yée make that to be the cause which dooth but manifest the cause for the cause of all sighing and sorrowing is the sinne and miserie which is within vs which we may the better behold and expresse by instruction I haue gréeuous sinne and wrath belonging therevnto which I doo partlye know and can make some moane therein and praye I come into the publike assembly where I heare the minister preach the word which dooth more fully laye open and display my sinne and misery I am héereby driuen into déeper sighing and sorrowing with vehement praier in my heart vnto God shall it be saide that I doo now fetch the cause of my sorrowing from an other mans spéech in the time of my begging at Gods hands If not then why should I be said to fetch the cause
Brownists of necessitie if your spéeches be weighed séeing all Churches haue and doo things which you affirme to be most detestable idolatry but let the matter come into question to be debated among the Churches and you will be found Anabaptists for imagining such a Christian libertie and fréedome in the Church that nothing is to be receyued which is imposed by commaundement Then ye say that it breaketh our libertie S. Paul proueth most plainely to the Galathians and Colossians I pray ye then that we may sée such plaine proofe which as yet none but your selues can espy note the sentences that will prooue the matter You take it there is no warrant to set foorth any prescript forme of prayer because Christ hath prescribed a forme Ye thinke I might more safely reason thus Christ hath prescribed a forme of prayer therefore neyther Pope Byshop or Prelate ought to impose any other vpon Gods children vntill they can shewe some warrant from Gods word so to do I am fully of your minde that none ought to impose any other forme vntill they can shewe warrant from Gods word But nowe marke how the Argument will followe Moyses the Prophets and our Lord Iesus gaue prescript formes of prayer and praysing God to be vsed by the Church therefore the reading of a prescript forme of prayer when one prayeth or offreth vp the sacrifice of prayse to God doth not change the worke of the Spirit into an idoll nor is not a breaking Christian libertie nor idolatrie for the holie Scripture is farre from appointing any idolatrous thing Then I reason further that if the Prophets and our Sauiour gaue prescript formes to be vsed the Church may take order to sée them vsed And from hence it doth followe that the Church may impose prescript forme of godlie prayers which are framed aright If any thinke this a strange consequence let them consider that the Lords prayer in generall conteyneth in it matter touching the substance and summe of all prayers which haue béene made or are to be made aright The Psalmes and other prayers in the Scriptures doo expresse particulars with sundrie sentences and phrases most fitte to expresse the same Nowe the Church hath power and authoritie not onely to expound these prayers but also to applye them vnto euerie seuerall vse and necessitye This I adde withall that the Church hath no authoritye to bring in any one thing in prayer which is not conteyned in those prayers of Gods word but when the prayers be composed and framed of nothing but the doctrine of the Scriptures and after the rules of true prayer nothing is brought in which God hath not commaunded Lay aside therefore all your shiftes touching Apocrypha mens writings and inequalitie with Canonicall Scriptures and bring your Arguments against the prescript forme and the reading to prooue that they make a prayer holie in it selfe to become abhominable and contrarie vnto spirituall prayer That yee say our Sauiour neuer vsed the words of the Lords prayer when he prayed neyther commaunded his Disciples to say ouer these words neyther doo we reade that the Apostles did euer vse or enforced others to vse certayne words c. ye speake vntruly for the Disciples desired him to teach them to pray as Iohn taught his disciples to pray and he commaundeth when yée pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen hallowed be thy name c. Luke 11. and S. Mathew an Apostle with S. Luke the Euangelist hath deliuered the same to the whole Church if we reade not any where that they did vse the Lords prayer or commaunded others to vse it Will ye reason thus we do not reade that the Apostles or the Church in their time did baptize Infants therefore Infants were not baptized or will ye reason thus we neuer read that the Apostles did pray eyther before or after they preached therefore they did not your argument is the very same with these two former yet from hence ye will néeds conclude y t we will impose vpon whole Churches certaine words euen our own words stinting the spirit of God I haue alreadie shewed that the Church hath not authoritie to bring any forme of prayer into the assemblies but such as is agréeable to the rules appointed for prayer by the word of God And where ye call it a stinting of the Spirit I aunswere that the Spirit of God is not stinted but some men are furthered by prescript formes their infirmities requiring such an eye as I haue shewed before Argum. 4. Because true prayer must be of faith vttered with heart and liuely voyce it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs c. Argum. 5. To worship the true God after an other manner then he hath taught is Idolatrie But he hath commaunded vs to come vnto him heauie laden with contrite hearts c. How dare we then bring a dead letter vnto God to stand reading of the same in stead of faithfull petitions quenching the spirit Argum. 6. We must striue in prayer with continuance c. therefore not vpon a booke These thrée I ioyned together as hauing no waight Ye say I answere by playne contradiction without Scripture or proofe In déede you quote Scripture to prooue those things which are not doubted of as that true prayer must be of faith vttered with hart that to worship God after an other manner then he hath taught is idolatrie that we must striue in prayer with continuance But what scripture do ye bring to prooue that it is presumptuous ignorance to vse the help of a booke that those which reade vpon a booke come not with faith and contrite hearts c. but stand reading a dead letter which quencheth the Spirit and that a booke is no helpe for continuance in prayer what Scripture I say bring yee to prooue any of these is not my bare denyall as good as your bare affirmation and in this farre better that I haue before proued the vse of reading by y e word of God Dauid say you would prayse the Lord with hart and doyce therefore not vpon a booke S. Paule would pray with the spirit and with vnderstanding therefore not vpon a booke Dauid and Paule had not so much néed of the booke as other men But whē they will other to sing prayses to God as in Psalmes Himnes and spirituall songs did they not send them to the booke or to the prescript formes wherein others might praise God together with them although they binde not men alwaies to the booke Then yée adde a reason why praier read cannot be true praier which is that in reading we fetch the matter from the booke which mooueth the heart In true praier we fetch the matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake as I beléeued and therefore I spake This is a most ridiculous vanitie for tell me this when we bring foorth in true praier matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake
the name and I haue heard diuers say they go beyond Browne But whosoeuer shal reade his books and peruse all their writings shall well see that he deserueth to haue the honour if any be and to be called the Captaine and maister of them all They haue all their furniture from him they do but open his packe and displaye his wares They haue not a sharpe arrowe which is not drawne out of his quiuer Then next touching the question betweene them and me let the reader consider it is not about the controuersie in our Church as whether there be imperfections corruptions and faults in our worship ministerie and church gouernment nor how many great or small But whether there be such heynous enormities as destroy the verye life and being of a true Church and make an vtter diuorse from Christ I will lay it open more plaine by a comparison which the Scripture vseth The Church is like a man in whom there be many parts and members Rom. 12. If all the parts or members of the body haue their iust proportion be whole and sound and set in their due order the soule and life departed he is no longer a man to speake properly but the dead carcasse of a man But now if he be sicke and diseased so that all partes are feeble or if he be deformed with sores and maimes wanting hand foote eye nose or such like yet is he still a man so long as the soule and life remaine in him All men doo know this to be true yea euen the simplest make no doubt or controuersie about it Let vs see therefore whether it be a fitte comparison with the Church and whether it be so in it of necessitie and as manifest by the doctrine of the holy scriptures as this other is vnto our bodily senses To finde this we must first consider whether there be no true Church of GOD but that which is perfect in this worlde Wee knowe that there are none but Heretikes yea ranke abhominable heretikes which obstinately deny this cleere doctrine of the holy Scriptures namely that euen the most faithfull and the most godly are not perfect while they liue vpon the earth We know but in part 1. Cor. 13. In many things we sinne all Iam. 3. v. 2. And who vnderstandeth his errors or who can tell how oft he offendeth Psal 19. The perfectest members of the Church doo erre doo sinne are maimed are weake are spotted and deformed many wayes Nowe whereas all the members be in this case needes must the whole body which is composed of them be in the same estate Then we may not looke for a Church in this world which is not spotted deformed maymed and weake in some respects But the question must bee how farre it may bee deformed and maimed and yet remaine aliue and so a true Church of God Let all the partes bee ioyned together let there be all sortes of officers and offices yet if the life and as it were the soule of the Church be wanting it is but a dead carcasse Contrarywise let there be some members wanting some maimed all parts deformed and weake yet is it a true Church of God so long as the soule and life dooth remaine in it And what is the soule and life of the Church Iesus Christ apprehended by faith I liue now saith Saint Paul but not any longer I but Christ liueth in me Galath 2. ver 20. All the members of the Church are incorporate and graffed into Christ by faith and doo growe in him and through the operation of his spirite receiue the iuice and sappe of life from him Iohn 15. Whosoeuer beleeueth in the Sonne of God shall be saued though he be full of errors full of infirmities and deformities both in body and soule labouring to be purged But if a man or an assembly do hold that which ouerthroweth the faith in Christ they are gone there is no life remaining As the Papacie holdeth many things aright touching Christ but it holdeth sundry things contrary which ouerthrow the very foundation of the faith and so the Papacie it selfe is not Gods true Church Thus haue I laide open the question betweene mee and the Brownists wherein then are the Maisters and Capitaines of Brownisme deceiued And what is it in which they seeke victorie and glory They knowe there is no sinne no error no corruption nor no abuse but that if all the learnedest in the worlde would take vpon them to cleere and to defend the same they shall not be able Then they are desirous of victorie of triumphe and glorye ouer all both wise and learned Heere therefore they entrench themselues they make their Bulwarkes plant their ordinance set themselues in arraye and sound the Trumpet of defiance against all They presume none shall euer be able to driue them out of their holde And indeed he that condemneth an error and goeth no further can neuer be vanquished But heerein they are deceiued that out of this Forte they will batter downe the Church For theyr ordinance is ouer weake for that they stoppe in powder in great plenty for they laye on toong enough and so make terrible thundering crakes But the Bullets which come foorth and which should doo the deed are nothing but hereticall erronious and fantasticall opinions and so all vanisheth into smoake They must therefore at the last leaue their holde and take them to their heeles for Gods Church will not be battered downe by any assaults of Schismatikes Some will thinke hardly that I terme them Schismatikes seeing they be men that are accounted zealous and stand for good things But the truth is they be not onely a Schisme yea a vile Schisme rending themselues from the Church of England and condemning by their assertions the whole visible Church in the worlde euen as the Donatists did of olde time but also they maintaine heresies and some that touche the very foundation of faith and Christian religion they be vtter violaters of ecclesiasticall discipline they abridge the power of the ciuill Magistrate beside sundry fantasticall opinions For when as the life of the church consisteth in the apprehensson of Christ through faith it must needs be an heresie to conclude as they doo a nullitie a quite ouerthrow of the same from errors faults which are not fundamentall Faith and regeneration being vnperfect in all that liue vpon the earth it is heriticall to say that is no Church of God which holding the sounde doctrine hath sinnes and great abuses in it The stablenesse of Gods couenant towarde the Church being founded onely vpon his free grace it is detestable impietie to hang it vpon the works of men as the Brownists do when they affyrme that where there is any open sinnes suffered in an assemblie the couenant is disanulled with them all And if men consider well they shall finde that the whole Brownisme resteth vppon the heresie of perfection and Anabaptisticall freedome For from hence that it
is written Ierusalem from aboue is the mother of vs all and is free with her children They boast of such freedome as that touching outwarde orders the Prince and Church hath no power to impose any thing by Lawes and Constitutions Which is one thing wherein they do not onely abridge the power of the Christian Magistrates denying them the authoritie to reforme the Church and to compell their subiects to the true worship spoyling the Church of that comfortable ayd but also condemne all reformed Churches which haue orders and prescript formes of prayers imposed which these Brownists tearme Idolatrie a tradition bringing Christian libertie into bondage and therefore a thing most detestable Moreouer they hold such a perfect freedome from all spirituall bondage of sinne that they affyrme S. Paule neuer consented to wicked thoughts after he was regenerate But in an other place they affyrme that all men be Idolaters and can keepe no one Commaundement where they are both contrary to themselues vttering that which ouerthroweth the whole Brownisme and also speake grosely For albeit there is no man perfect in any Commaundement yet the holy Scriptures do not call them Idolaters nor adulterers They boldly gayne say the holy Ghost by affirming that the Psalmes were not to be sung vnto God And touching the discipline which is the thing they most glorie of as if they suffered for it let all men know for certaintie that they be not only ignorant what it is but also do in their practise breake and ouerthrow the very pith and substance thereof in the chiefe rules For they take vpon them to abandon and cast foorth whole assemblyes which professe the Gospell and haue their estimation and dignitie among all godly Churches without obseruing the rule giuen by our Sauiour Christ Math. 18. They intrude themselues without calling beeing meere priuate men to the erecting and establishing of a publike gouernment forgetting that which is written I haue not sent them and yet they runne They cut off also the power of the Church in a great part of the discipline as namely in ordeyning constitutions in things that are variable Finally touching this poynt I may say boldly the Diuell can no way almost more disgrace Ecclesiasticall gouernment then he doth by them for it is the Sterne of Christes Ship and requireth men of the greatest wisedome learning experience and sobrietie that may be for to guide it Now when the common Artificer the Apprentise and the Bruer intrude themselues and they will guide the same being ignorant rash and headie what worldlie wise man will not take it that discipline her selfe is but a bedlem Who will aduenture himselfe in that Ship where presumptuous ignorance and bold frensie doth sit at the Helme Shall that Ship escape the rockes If it would please God to giue Browne the grace to repent and to speake the truth he could best declare this thing For when he had with certayne other drawne some both men and women ouer the Seas and there spread his Sayles how soone did his silly Boate dash vppon the rocke and was clouen in two or three peeces Let not men be deceyued with euery vayne shewe for vndoubtedly he that obserueth shall finde that the end of Brownisme is infinite Schismes Heresies Atheisme and Barbarisme For what other fruites can followe of the disgracing and condemning the liberall Artes of bringing the ministerie of Gods Word by which the religion and godlines that is in men hath been â—rought into vtter contempt What can followe from immoderate outragious rash furie wrath and bitter zeale and vainglorious contention which are earthly sensuall and diuelish If men could stay themselues but a while and see whether the same things spring not foorth which came from the Donatists and Anabaptists it were well For it is to be wondred at that any which professe the Gospell should be seduced and called away not only from the Ministers of the Church of England that haue taught them but from all the most worthy men and Churches vnder heauen and that by the voyce of the Deuill in such furious blinde Schismatikes In deede there be two speciall causes of it the one that sundry men receyue not the holy Word of God in humilitie with feare and trembling with conscience to practise but are puffed vp and swell with opinion of their knowledge as soone as they can vtter a fewe words and growe vnto vayne iangling yea vnto bitter zeale and contention in stead of being quiet as S. Paule willeth and medling with their own busines 1. Thes 3. and also in stead of following after righteousnes faith and loue 2. Timoth. 3. He that seemeth most zealous in religion and refraineth not his toong hath but bitternesse in steed of heauenly zeale For wheras in steed of gentlenesse meekenesse patience mercie and loue yee finde wrath fiercenesse intemperat rage vncharitable condemning and slaundering know for certainty that the true zeale is not there The other cause of mens seducing is that in this corrupt age there be many stumbling blockes and greeuous offences where indeed it is the part and duty of euery true Christian man beside the taking heede to his owne wayes most instantly to offer vp praiers and supplications to God to intreate him to shew mercie and compassion vpon vs by increasing all heauenly graces and giftes of his holy spirit in our most noble Queene and in all Gouernours both ciuill and ecclesiasticall that there may be feruent zeale to purge the house of God and to take away the causes of contention that we may not alwaies seeke to deuoure one an other but that vnity and concord may florish holding this withall that it is also euery mans dutie that will feare God to giue him hearty thanks for the inestimable treasures and blessings which he hath bestowed vpon vs by meanes of the happy raigne of our gratious Soueraigne and to take heed of that malignant spirite of Brownisme which would carry vs to this wicked opinion that she bearing the Sworde of God hath doone no more for vs then an Heathen Prince might doo For if we haue no word of God no ministery no Sacraments nor visible Church but all idolatrous and antichristian what hath she done what honor can she haue for defence of the Gospell This is no small dishonour and iniurie to a Christian Prince thus to diminish the loue of the subiects The Lord giue them repentance and grace to cease from such impietie and let all men with modestie reuerence and subiection and not with reproch and contempt seeke the redresse of abuses at their hands which be in Authoritie and not aduenture like Corah Dathan and Abiram to intrude themselues without calling and warrant from God They cryed out are not all the Lords people holy and therefore Moses and Aaron yee take too much vppon yee The Brownist proclaymeth that all the Lords people are free and therefore freely to deale and not to haue any thing imposed by any Be
blasphemous collects which we vse in the Sacrament and all the hereticall collects of the booke doo trouble yée very sore and weary yée to repeat But if it pleased God I would ye were as weary of lying and slaundering as ye should be in séeking in all the collects of the booke if yée were bound to séeke and to finde I will not say some faultes séeing all things framed by the best men may haue imperfections and faults but some blasphemies or heresies If yée haue any regard at all what ye say gather your wits together consider what is blasphemie and what is heresie and then note the collect where it is and what it is There shall neuer any man be able to prooue that the Church of England dooth tollerate much lesse defend either blasphemie or heresie Yet you as if your words were true as the Gospell clap your wings and crowe saying but this candle may not be lighted least the people should sée into the abhominabl◠ingredients which you their Antichristian ministers doo giue them or rather sell them in the whore of Babilons cuppe All this is but your foule toong which is no way so eloquent as in rowling out slaunderous accusation of blasphemies heresies and abhominations with such like Moreouer whereas the case standeth thus in the church of England that there is controuersie about the Booke and that one part dooth approoue all things in the same as good and alowable or at least as tollerable the other condemne certaine things as corruptions and such as néede reformation I would know how ye could abandon all the assemblyes to this ye make a double answer first that vsing a part they do homage to the whole This is a foolish answer void of all reason for can we not praise the good things in a man but we shall allowe his faultes and imperfections Your second answer is this Neither can the cunningest of ye all make the best part of it other then a péece of Swines flesh an abhomination to the Lord. Who could imagin that such a frensie might take hold of any that in mad furie they should not spare after a sort to strike at God and to blaspheme that which is most holy for ye knowe right well that there is in the booke of Common Prayer much of the sacred Canonicall Scripture there is the Lords prayer the tenne Commaundements with many other partes and sentences there be the articles of the Christian faith are all these become Swines flesh an abhomination to the Lorde Let not simple men wonder that ye are bold to proclaime all the Ministers of the Gospell within this land to be the marked seruants of Antichrist when ye dare presume to set your stincking brand of pitch vpon the most holy things of God Ye will héere cry out of iniurie and say that ye estéeme all those parcels of the sacred Canonicall Scriptures in thēselues to be holy and pure What is it then which turneth them into Swines flesh and maketh them an abhomination to the Lord is it because they be bound together and make one booke with the hereticall Collects then take you héede least being in prison and fettred with heretikes ye be turned also into Heretikes If ye say it is our abuse which turneth so holy things into Swines flesh I aunswere that the abuse of holy things is abhominable but the things themselues remaine vndefiled and ye must remember that we deale touching the partes of the booke but abuse is no part thereof When ye say the best part thereof is no other then a péece of Swines flesh it can not be transferred from the partes vnto the abuses If it were graunted vnto ye which yet is to be denied as most fantasticall that all read prayer offred vp vnto God as a sacrifice is Idolatrie neuerthelesse your saying is wicked and blasphemous seeing that the reading is not any part of the booke neither doth it peruert or defile the things themselues which are read Thus your first accusation that we worship the true God after a false manner is with false sclaunder and furious outrage of spéech crying out of Idolatrie blasphemies and abhominations when as ye can shewe no one ground of the holy Religion and worship of God which is not holden sound and entire among vs only ye rippe vp corruptions and spots in Ceremonies orders and circumstances which touch not the foundation but are such as men may erre in and yet be Gods déere children and true woorshippers The Brow Iohn 4. 23. 24. God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth The reasons why wee disalow of read prayer in stead of spirituall prayers that though they may be read for meditation as any other mens writs yet is it Idolatry to offer vp to God such manner of sacrifices eyther priuately or in publique assemblyes 1 No apocripha must be brought into the publique assemblyes for there only the liuely voyce of Gods owne graces of the word and the spirit must be heard in the publique assemblyes And more lawfull is it to vse Homelyes then reade prayers vnto God 2 To do any thing in the worship of God without the testimonie of his word is sinne but there is no ground in the Scripture for such manner of praying as hauing no witnesse of the word whether God be pleased with them or no. 3 Admitte that it were a thing indifferent as we call it for the forme of prayer which is but a mockery to call reading in stead of spirituall calling on God to be but altering the forme or chaunging the manner whereas in deede it is changing the worke of the Spirit into an Image or Idoll Yet is it a bondage and breaking of that libertie which Christ hath purchased for vs and therefore most detestable 4 Because true prayer must be of faith and knowledge vttered with the hart and liuely voyce vnto God I am perswaded it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs such things as we could not otherwise vtter in Gods sight 5 To worship the true God after another manner then he hath taught is Idolatry but he hath commaunded vs to come vnto him being heauy loden with contrite hearts yea to cry out vnto him in the griefe of our soule yea and as S. Paule sayth The Spirit helpeth our infirmities with groning and sighing that can not be expressed and how dare we then being a dead tree vnto God to stand reading of the same in stead of faithfull petitions quenching the Spirit 6 We must striue in prayer with continuing with feruency without wauering which we can not doo vppon a booke 7 We must call vppon God in prayer at all times as the necessities of the time requireth not making a babling of many things whereof we haue not any present necessitie but stinted seruice cannot be so applyed so it is but a babling of vaine repetitions 8 All the deuises of Antichrist though it were otherwise lawfull not
be vnlike themselues but vary from others You reply that the Papists haue not so weake reasons for their idolatrous leiturgies rubrikes and Canons It appeareth by all your arguments how méete men yée are to iudge of the waight and sufficiencie of reasons alledged by the Papists or others Ye say if it be but in phrases of spéech that they differ it is no sufficient cause to ordaine leiturgies I graunt that is true then yée say if it be in doctrine or conuersation the censures of the Church are to helpe that I confesse that the censures of the Church are to redresse such things But your reason yet hath two defaults The one that ye deuide differing in administration of Sacraments and publike praiers but into two members difference of phrases and difference of doctrine When as there be sundry other differences as in order and ceremonies which the Church is to haue regard of and not to leaue arbitrary Your experience in these matters is not so great as your boldnesse The other fault is that because the censures of the church should redresse defaultes therefore there néedeth no prescribed order It is a world to sée how many men talke of the Censures and gouernment of the Church which knowe not what it meaneth The Church hath this power to ordeine according to the word of God and to appoynt such Orders in matters of circumstance about publike prayer preaching of the word and administring of the Sacraments as shall most fitlie serue for edification And then these Orders béeing established by publike Authoritie the Discipline and Censures of the Church are to driue men to the obseruation of the same Who is able to imagin the innumerable diuisions and offences which would arise in the practise of your Anabaptisticall fréedome in which yee denye the Church to haue power to ordeyne and to impose any orders I would the Ministerie of England were better then it is If by tearming it a franticke Ministerie you meant but to speake against vnlearned and vngodlie men you should haue leaue for me but you comprehend all the learnedest and godly whiche you could not bée bolde to doo vnlesse yee were taken with a frensie séeing there bée many whome yée are neuer lyke in any measure of giftes and graces eyther for knowledge or Godlynesse to approch néere vnto Well now yée fall to your sober reasoning agayne Paule commaunded the Colossians to admonishe Archippus you would haue a Leiturgie for your Ministers not onely to tell them what they should doo to men but also to God himselfe this is your last reason and hauing before spent your strength it is as a weake childe of your olde age If yee had no better I would neuer haue set this last For I meruayle vnlesse yee did it to mocke to what ende yee shoulde bring it in Archippus was to bée admonished by the Colossians the Pastors are to bée admonished by theyr flockes therefore there ought to bée no prescript forme of publike prayer Or is your meaning that the Leiturgies goe too farre in telling the Ministers what they shall say not only to men but to God himselfe Then I aunswere that the Colossians were to admonish Archippus to looke to his whole dutie Set Archippus aside for he doth not strengthen but weaken your argument and take these words only which séeme to carrie a great absurditie namely that the Minister should be told by a Leiturgie what he is to speake both to God and men I aunswere that the Leiturgie is not to teach Ministers which otherwise can not tell what to say it is not to maintaine an idoll Ministerie But to auoyd those inconueniences which I haue before mentioned and such lyke you may sée in the reformed Churches they haue Leiturgies and yet all theyr Ministers are able and knowe what to speake both to God and men I propounded this question that if read prayers and imposed Leiturgies bée Idolatrie where shall wée fynde a visible Churche You aunswere that in this poynt they might erre of ignorance and yet be the true Church This is some fauour yet the Church came nowe vnto yee in a lucky houre but yee may continue thus gratious least the poore Churches of England craue the like at your hande Haue yee not set downe that to reade a prayer vppon the booke is to woorship hym with a woorship disagréeing from his nature haue yee not sayd it is the deuise of Antichrist a dead letter quenching the Spirit stinting the Spirit not of Faith Idolatrie a changing the worke of the Spirit into an Idoll a tradition and bondage breaking our libertie which Christ hath purchased for vs and therefore a thing most detestable Doo yee not denye that to bée the Church of Christ which hath any thing imposed and yet yee saye touching Leiturgies imposed vppon all Churches they might erre in this poynt of ignorance and yet bée a true Church Your spéeches doo condemne all the visible Churches in the worlde wherein yée bée rancke Donatists But you woulde hide this and make shewe as though yée condemned only the Churches of England But if read prayers and imposed Leiturgies bée such as you affyrme in those spéeches which I haue mentioned how could ignorance excuse them And why may not the Church of Englande bée excused by ignorance let the Reader héere obserue the pride of ignorant blinde Scismatikes which imagine they knowe more then all the Churches of God in the earth You take it that I vse the Popish Argument of vniuersalitie and Antiquitie and so wonder what I will say against the Papists traditions séeing I fight with their weapons agaynst the truth Nay if yée could sée your owne blindnesse it would make ye meruaile in déede I reason thus It is manifest by the word of God that there should bée a true visible Church in earth but if imposed Leiturgies be such as you make them that could not bée so there could bée no true Church in as much as all Churches that are and that haue béene for many hundred yeares haue had imposed Leiturgies The Papists doo drawe theyr Arguments of Antiquitie and Vniuersalitie not from the Scriptures as you may sée this reason that I alleadge is but against the Scriptures And nowe how truly yée conclude touching this question of read Prayer and prescript forme of Leiturgies let the Reader iudge and whether the Scriptures that I haue brought doo not ouerthrowe your fantasticall and Anabaptisticall errors There were ioyned with these Arguments against read Prayer two other the first is this The Prayers of such Ministers and people as stand vnder a false Gouernment are not acceptable not onely because they aske amisse but because they breake Gods commaundement The other is The Prayers of such as bée subiect to Antichrist are abhominable Those Ministers which haue no power with theyr people to receyue in and to cast out hauing come in by the windowe are Antichristian and subiect to Antichrist therefore the prayers of
doo offend in not executing the discipline vpon vngodly men to bring them to repentance but in receiuing their children to be baptized they doo not offend so they sée them taught in the faith and to liue a godlye life as our Church hath established yea in refusing them the infants should receiue great iniurie But to make this matter yet more cléere the question is to be answered whether the Church of Rome be the Church of Christ For the Brownists doo hold that our auncestors were not the Church of Christ in the time of poperie and that we now are confused multitudes not rightlye entered into couenant with God to become a Church séeing wee were not of Gods true Church before neither orderly entered into couenant Indéed if we were not within the couenant before from our auncestors nor entered orderly to become a Church the matter would séeme strong against vs. Let it therefore be examined I know this is the vsuall spéech of the learnedest Deuines the church of God is in the Papacie but the Papacie is not the church And it may be the sense will differ little or nothing but I take it a fitter spéech to saye the Papacie is in the church then to say the church is in the papacie For Antichrist dooth sit in the Temple of God his lawes his worship and all his abhominations were brought into the church All the men which receiued his marke and worshipped him were in the church yea euen the whole Apostasie was in the churche The church was before and that commeth after and entreth into or ariseth in it Then to the question if by the church of Rome we vnderstand the Pope his lawes his worship which hath béene deuised by himselfe his adherents and all that worship him or receiue his Marke I answer that this is that which may properly be called the church of Rome which is the papacie the apostasie and seduced to damnation and not the church of Christ otherwise then thus that the Pope the Cardinals and all that worship the Beast be false Christians by profession bred in the Church and continuing in it their séede not excluded from the couenant But if by the Church of Rome we vnderstand all those companies of people ouer whome the tyrannie of the Pope hath heeretofore extended it selfe or dooth at this day or those things which were giuen by Christ which remaine in the same I say this is not the church of Rome but the Church of God First if we respect the holye doctrine of God in all those points which were and are kept sound among them and the holye Sacrament of Baptisme Then secondly if we consider the kingdoms and people themselues all did not fall from Christ but many held the foundation the most of them lying scattered and hid in the desolations and ruines Thirdly if we regard that the infants not only of these faithfull but euen of the wicked Apostates which worshipped the beast were still within the couenant as the holy séed we shall see that the papacie was and is in the Church which is the Temple of God and not the synagog of Rome The Church of Rome then is not the true Church of God but the Church of Rome is the Apostasie in the church Let vs come then more particularly The church of England in the time of poperie was a member of the vniuersall church and had not the being of a church of Christ from Rome nor tooke not her beginning of being a Church by seperating hir selfe from that Romish synagog but hauing her spirites reuiued and her eyes opened by the light of the heauenly word did cast foorth that tyrannie of Antichrist with his abhominable idolatrie heresies and false worship and sought to bring all her children vnto the right faith and true seruice of God And so is a purer and more faithfull church then before Idolatrie was openly set vp in the church of Israel at sundrye times It did not as I haue shewed disanull the couenant of God with them nor debarre their children from the holy signe of circumcision but all the Iewes are called the children of the couenant Then let the Brownist shew some reason why it should bee otherwise in this case with our churches then it was with the church of Israel Thus much for the one part of your assumption wherein ye blame the church of England for receiuing in all by baptisme Now touching the other part of it in which ye affirme that there is no power to cast foorth any by excommunication yée speake very falsely For the church of England hath some power to excommunicate But you reason thus the person and all his parish hath not the power to excommunicate anye one offendor therefore the church of England hath not powre to excommunicate Is it possible if a man would study to reason absurdlie that he should excell yée Will yee argue thus euery seuerall part by it selfe hath not power to excommunicate therefore the whole together hath not the power It is not méete indéed that the Parson and his parish should haue the power to excommunicate vnlesse it bee such a Parish as hath the Consistorie of Pastors Teachers and Gouernours It séemeth yée haue great skill in the discipline of Christ The seuerall flockes about Geneua without the Citie haue euery one a Pastor and two Elders but yet they haue not the power to excommunicate but that is referred to the Consisiorie which is within the Citie Maister Beza Epist 20. Will yée say those seuerall flockes cannot be the Churches of Christ vnlesse their pastors and they together haue power to excommunicate They are members of that church which hath power to excommunicate But yée will say that the excommunication of the Commissarie is no excommunication and therfore our parishes be no members of a church which hath power to excommunicate The like yée will say of the excommunication by the Bishop himselfe and by the Archdeacon I aunswer that if it should bée graunted ye that their excommunication dooth not binde in heauen yet it is of force to remooue and dooth remooue from the societye of our assemblies which prooueth your accusation false because we reason about this outward remoouing But what if the Bishop together with sundry other Ministers of the Gospell doo excommunicate duely an obstinate wicked man is he not excommunicate before God If there be an heretike conuinced and found obstinate and the Bishops and Ministers of the Church of England assembled or some competent number of them as in the conuocation or such synod do duely excommunicate him is it no excommunication Will yée reason after this sort that because euery Minister with his flocke seuerally hath not the power to excommunicate therefore the Ministers of the Church of England are vtterly without this power You confesse that it is the Church of Christ which hath this power though it fault much by negligence in executing the same I would all Brownists could
ouercome Then yée turne your selues to those poore soules as yée terme thē whom we like miserable Physicians séeke to cure and your Counsell you giue them I doo allow it for it is the same in effect if you could sée that I gaue them before I would to God the people did follow it we should not then haue one Brownist The Deuill counterfaiting Christs voice in hereticall schismatikes should not be able to allure and call away the shéepe from their shéepeheards Now remaineth the last point onely that I shew some reason to prooue our Ministery to be of Christ The ministery of the Gospell which bringeth the worde of faith and reconciliation betwéene God and the worlde is the true ministerie of Christ for the Deuil and Antichrist ordeine no such ministerie Nowe the ministerie of the Church of England doth bring no word nor doctrine but the sacred scriptures It preacheth faith in God through Christ and the doctrine of repentance deliuering the holy sacraments as seales to confirme the same Let all the schismatikes in the world barke against it and say we haue no word nor Sacraments yet this is the holy word God so loued the world that hee gaue his onely begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting It may be sayde that many ministers in England doo not nor cannot preach the Gospell how then is their ministery the ministery of reconciliation Héere note that as we must distinguish betwéene the ministery and the man himselfe which is the minister for the man may be of the Deuill and yet his ministery of God so must we also distinguish betwéene the function it selfe and the execution of the same For when one is called to bee a minister of the Gospell which is able and dooth not preach the defect is not in the function but in his negligence about the execution Likewise when the office or function is layd vpō him that cannot preach the function it selfe is entyre the defect is in the execution thereof through his disabilitie I say therfore that the Ministerie of England is the Ministerie of the Gospell though some doo not and some cannot Preach Then further such as haue the calling and ordination of the Church haue the Ministerie of Christ for it is giuen to the Church to haue power to call and ordeine Ministers Now if the Church doo falt and breake either by error or negligence in some rules which are to be obserued about this calling and ordinatiō yet the power is not disanulled nor the function destroyed vnlesse we will hold that where there is transgression either of ignorance or otherwise the whole is ouerthrowne and so conclude that there is no praier nor worship of God nor any true seruice doone vnto him vnder heauen because all is with errors and faults In England the Ministers haue their calling and ordination by the Church of God For that people which hath forsaken heresies and false worship and imbraced the doctrine of the Gospell hath in it the true Church which hath the power And the Ministers intrude not themselues but haue the power giuen them by the hands of the Bishops who doo it not by their owne authoritie nor by any authoritie from Antichrist but as committed to their trust by publike authoritie Moreouer that is the Ministerie of God which is to bring men to the faith and to build vp the body of Christ The Ministerie of England is to none other end For the whole drift the whole scope and burthen laid vpon them is to féede with wholsome doctrine and to guide in the waye of godlinesse the shéepe of Christ walking before them in godlye conuersation The Brownist will not take himselfe héere conuinced but will say these causes are but pretended and are not in truth I will therefore now reason from the effect together with that which is properly adioyned to the Ministerie of Christ That Ministerie with the execution whereof there is ioyned the effectuall grace power blessing and operation of the Holy-ghost to the true conuersion of mens soules is not a Ministerie of the Deuill nor of Antichtist nor commeth not in the life and power of the beast but is indeed the true Ministerie of Christ I thinke the Brownists will not be so beastly as to affyrme that the grace and operation of the holy Ghost to the conuersion of mens soules is ioyned to that and worketh by that which is of the Deuill and commeth in the life and power of Antichrist Then it remayneth only to shewe that there hath béene and is this grace and worke in the execution of our function If the Brownists will deny that euer they felt that maiestie and power in the preaching which can not be in the words of man but only in that word which is sharper then any two edged sword and pierceth so déepe as to be a discerner of the thoughts and secret intents Or if they will denie that euer they haue béene driuen by it vnto hatred sorrowe and remorse for sinne and raysed vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenesse and with the promises of eternall glorie Yet vnto many other which by it are conuerted vnto the Lord in déede which vnto feare and trembling doo féele the power and swéetnesse of the liuely word it may be sayd as S. Paule speaketh to the Corinths for when his aduersaries did denie him to be an Apostle the Corinths by his Ministerie were begotten in Christ wherevpon he sayth If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet am I vnto you for you are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord 1. Cor. 9. ver 2. Euen so if the Ministery of Englād be not the Ministery of Christ vnto others yet you can not doubt of it your faith your repentance your ioy in the Lord are the seale of it You can not but sée and knowe that they be vile blasphemous wretches which beare ye in hand that it is not the word of God nor the grace of his spirit which worketh in ye but the power of the Deuill and the spirit of Antichrist You knowe it is the direct way which the Deuill taketh by his ministers to bring in flat Atheisme to disgrace and throwe downe the credite of the ministerie But doth it not make against the Ministerie of England that many of the Brownists confesse they haue béene greatly moued at sometimes with the power of the preaching and at the administration of the Sacraments for may it not bée sayd héerevpon that it is but a deceyuable shewe of grace and power for if it had béene in truth it would haue continued I answer it is sufficient to proue the Ministerie and that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with it when men haue bin so moued although they do not continue séeing the reprobate do féele the power and taste the swéetnes of the word for a time Hebr. 6. He that hath therefore felt the power of God in his soule by the