de biblioth wald Cyâ— not without cause extolles the Româ— faith when expounding those wâ— portae inferi non praeualebunt teâ— Peter quoth he it is said the gates 〈◊〉 Hell shall not preuaile against it 〈◊〉 Church according to this promiseâ— our Lord the Apostolicall Church of â—ter remaines cleane from all misleadâ— and hereticall circumuention aboue 〈◊〉 the Prelates and Bishops and aboue Primates of Churches and of Aposâ— in her chiefe Pastors in most abundâ— faith and in the Authoritie of Peâ— and whereas other Churches are compâ—d with errour she alone established â—moueablie doth raigne imposing siâ—ace and stopping the mouthes of all Heâ—tickes and wee by necessitie of saluation not by pride deceaued nor inebriaâ—d with the wine of pride doe acknowledge and professe openlie with her the â—me of truth and Apostolicall tradition Hereby appeares what Walâ—nsis thought of the Church of â—ome and by those words secunâ—m Domini professionem and those â—abilita inquassabiliter he sawe which himselfe had professed dd Non potest in fide deficere vt suprà â—efore that this immunitie and hoâ—our was to continue And by this â—nd much more which you may â—ade in that Chapter where the thing 〈◊〉 professedlie discoursed of I â—aue as manifest that you did mistake him in your first pretenâ—e which was about the Church of Rome Non quidem generali Synodo conâ—egata quam ee SuÌ„prà ad li. q. aliquoties errasse â—rcepimus velut illa Ariminensis â—ngregata sub Tauro praefecto illa â—onstantinopolitana sub Iustiniano miâ—ore tempore Sergij Papae secuudum Bedam quaedam aliae Here againe you will haue the thing disputed what he denies of a synod and what he affirmes He denies that it is the symbolicall Church this is plaine by the coherence of the discourse as I declared before He affirmes of generall Synods that some haue erred as the Constantinopolitan vnder Iustinian the Ariminian vnder Taurus and some others Whence it followes that the Church so assembled is not the symbolicall Church for that neuer erreth Holie diuine faith is in her essence and therefore as her essence or being cannot faile no more can her faith She hath fidem indefectibilem such a faith as by reason of our Sauiours ff Matth. 16. care cannot be deficient and without exception of any time without admitting corruption to the preiudice of her integritie she retaines the truth euer gg Suprà pag. 49. steedfast whereas a Councell or assemblie may be corrupted and want integritie as appeares in those which he speakes of Moreouer there are vnder the name of Generall Councells as appeares by him in this place and elswhere some that are sincere some that are not That of Nice was sincere and was generall that of Constantinople vnder Iustinian was not sincere yet is it here putt in the number of those which he calls generall The infallibilitie of such as are sincere and approued by the successor of S. Peter the Pope wee maintaine the infallibilitie of all that are vnder the name of generall wee doe not Neither doth Waldensis contradict vs in the former part which is of the sincere and approued He saith indeed that some which goe by the name of generall haue erred you may adde if you please that others like them hereafter may But your argument will not hold Some therefore all Some men stagger in their faith men denie God sometimes you are not wise if you vnderstand this of all men or of wise men When Wickleff obiected as you doe hh walden to 1. li. 2. c. 26. Peccauit scimus Ariminense Concilium peccauit Nicenum Thraciae the Ariminian Councell wee know did amisse and so did the Nicene of Thrace The author the same whose authoritie you are medling with answers peccauit vtique magnus exercitus Angelorum c. a great armie verilie of Angells did amisse yea and the holie number of Apostles euen in apostacie after they had receaued the faith before the comming of the holie Ghost the spirit of truth to teach them all truth and yet neither is the companie of other Angels therefore depriued of their felicitie nor the assemblie of the Apostles regularlie without doubt of the principalitie of the Church nor a generall Councell of its authoritie Thus in the 26. Chapter and in the next which is the 27. he deliuers his minde touching the matter whereof wee are disputing in these words Non dubitat Ecclesia sancta Dei toties assistere sibi Spiritum sanctum quoties congregati fuerint authoritate plenario in nomine Christi ad fidei dubium resoluendum The holie Church of God doubteth not that the holie Ghost assistes her as oft as they by full authoritie be assembled in the name of Christ to resolue a doubt of faith This was not onelie certaine with him but it is he saith a thing which the Catholike Church holds as a matter out of question non dubitat she doubts not of it And a litle after Plenarijs Concilijs Ecclesiae si tamen maneant incorrupta Spiritus sanctus adest definit de fide The holie Ghost is present vnto plenarie or generall Councells of the Church if so they continue sincere or perfect and doth define of faith And if this be so then not exteriour onlie as some would shift it of but interiour obedience is due to the decree for such obedience wee owe to the holie Ghost who is present assisting as was before said and as it is further heere expressed doth make the definition definit And consequentlie this Author had reason to saie as he doth in the same Chapter afterwards that it ii Multitudini ergo credentium est potius adhaereduÌ„ quae cum claruerit quod in Christi nomine coÌ„gregetur ab eius decreto vnanimi non nisi cum periculo declinatur c. 27. is daungerous to swarue from such decrees To this purpose in the Chapter whence you dispute he ponders those words of the first Councell assembled in Hierusalem which gaue the forme to all others and taught them how to vnderstand our Sauiours ll Ioh. 14. 16. promise It hath seemed good to the holie Ghost and to vs. mm waeldendens to 1. li. 2. c. 19. marke saith he they said not it seemed good to the holie Ghost and the Church but to the holie Ghost and to vs who heere doe represent the Church and yet not to vs without the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost in himselfe and to the * when this authoritie comes in the fortè sic and fortè noÌ„ haue no place The Holie Ghost cannot be deceaued What he doth auouch is most certaine Remouentur dubitationes Be mindfull of this note when you come to S. Aug. holie Ghost in vs in the Church who in doubts of faith is neuer wanting to the Church Christ promising to her the holie Ghost shall teach you all truth And therefore what seemeth good to him the same
also by his instigation seemeth good to vs. That he did acknowledg infallibilitie in sincere approued Councells it is further manifest by that he held of the Popes iudgmeÌ„t If he thought the resolution of doubts in faith were to be made by him and that his decision was a truth so certaine that it could not be gainesaid he without question made no lesse esteeme of a generall and approued Councell wherein the Popes iudgment and determination is included and consequentlie when he questions or reiects the authoritie of Councells he meanes not those wherein the Pope defines or such as he approues and so not all that are vnder the name of generall but some onelie as hath beene said before Now that he had that estimation which I haue mentioned of the Popes iudgment and dedefinition it is manifest by the 47. Chapter where professedlie he doth vndertake to proue it bringing to this purpose manie testimonies out of S. Augustine S. Hierome Rufinus Origen the Bishops of Africk and others The title of the Chapter is Quod Papa habet ab antiquo potestatem insringibilem ad determinandum fidei veritates debellandum cancellandum omnes falsitates haereticas And in the verie nn Orthodoxi omnes ad iudices Christi currunt vicarios ordinatè requirunt vt tandem planam teneant veritatem Propter hoc enim vt verè credunt licet Doctores vltra eos Episcopos inter omnes mortales singillatim acceptos petere Papam cuius moderameÌ„ decisio pro irrefragabili vero tenebatur à Patribus Apud ipsum enim piè credebant totius fidei nostrae latere mysteria pectus eius imbutum butyro illo prophetico quo sciret reprobare malum eligere bonum Walden to 1. li. 2. c. 47. Nouit Hieronymus apud Papam Romanum authoritatem este ad emendandum fidem incongruam vel ad probandum Catholicam postquam à tanto Apostolatu haberetur vt recta sine dubio foret per null â—maltum violanda Ad eiusdem quoque Damasi Papa doctrinam tanquam ad infallibilem fidei regulam Catholici Episcopi illo tempore suos aduersarios haereticos coëgerunt Ibidem vbi etiam refert illud quod suprà dictum est ex Hier. de Sancti Marci Euangelio per Sanctum Petrum approbato beginning he saith Papae moderamen decisio pro irrefragabili vero tenebatur à Patribus the Popes direction and decision was by the Fathers marke that by the Fathers held for a truth which cannot be contradicted To the same purpose are manie things added in the next Chapter which is of the prerogatiue of perpetuall immunitie in the Church of Rome where amonge other things he saith that oo Propter hanc incorruptionem claritatem famosam omnes viri Catholici quantumcunque magni quantumlibet sancti simul authoritate territi magnae sedis ab hac susceperunt in dubijs fidei documenta terrifica cap. 48. all Catholick men how great how holie soeuer haue from that See receaued documents in doubts of faith and that it is as he speakes in the words of Cyrill stabilita inquassabiliter so established that it cannot be moued or shaken and more to the same purpose which in the additions you may reade So that I may leaue this as sufficientlie demonstrated out of his booke that you were mistaken in the sence of the words obiected Out of that which hath beene related from him it appeares also that I may leaue a note for such as vpon this occasion may chaunce hereafter to looke on him first that he puts diuers degrees of adhesion deuines expresse it by certitudo maior maior ex parte subiecti respectiuelie to verities diuerslie proposed Secondlie thar with him these proponents are infallible vizt the Church symbolicall that part of it which is now present including both Pastors and people a perfect and syncere generall Councell and the Church of Rome as it is head or the Pope defining Thirdlie that the Pope Councell and present Church when it will seeke the veritie of anie point of faith called into question or the authoritie of any writing or scripture to knowe whether it be diuine or no is to looke into the symbolicall Church which hath all the Christian lawe with the meaning written in her heart by the spirit of the liuing God and there to finde it not in euerie page of this greate booke not expressed in the faith of euerie part but in the booke And if after the search made it be proposed by the Pope in a generall Councell by the present Church receaued or by the Pope in Councell to the Church all are according to his principles to receaue and to beleeue it Fourthlie that the present Church finding and proposing the veritie and the symbolicall in whom she finds it beleeuing and testifying the same doe make vp one organ where by the holie Ghost the spirit of truth doth auouch it to the world Fiftlie that besides the authorities before mentioned all contained in the Church wherein our sauiour pp Ego vobiscum omnibus diebus Mat 28. qui loquitur in me Christus 2 Corim 13. Parecletum dabit vobis vt maneat vobiscum in aeteâ—nuÌ„ spiritum veritatis Ioh 14. In vobis erit Ibidem Non enim vos estis qui loquimini sed Spiritus Patris vestri qui loquitur in vobis Matt. 10. likewise and his spirit be there be in it also diuers other degrees of authoritie as of generall Councells not including the Popes approbation not by the Church or him disapproued of particular Churches especiallie qq Ecclesiarum Catholicarum inter quas sanê illae quae Apostolicas sedes habere epistolas accipere meruerunt c. S. Aug. 2. Doct. Chri. c. 8. such as the Apostles haue liued in and amongst them chieflie the Roman though considered with abstraction from the Popes authoritie by reason of the traditions left in her by the two great Apostles S. Peter and S. Paul of nationall or prouinciall Synods and the like all which according to this Author haue their waight though not the same with the Pope in Councell I omit to pleade further that Waldensis was at Constance in the Councell whereof I spake before treating of Cameracensis and passe vnto the next §. IV. 1. Panormitan the Lawier speakes of a Councell not approued by the Pope nor by the Church diffused which Councells the Question meddles not withall 2. It were possible he thinks for God considering his absolute power to conserue the true faith in one man or woman 3. Antoninus his mind touching Councells PVto tamen quod si Papa moueretur melioribus rationibus authoritatibus quà m Concilium quod standum esset sententiae suae Nam Concilium potest errare sicut aâ—ià s errauit super matrimonium contrahendum inter raptorem raptum Et infrà Nec obstat si dicatur quod Concilium Generale non potest
by occasion of your discourse in the Councell of Chalcedon six hundred Fathers together acknowledging diuine assistance to the Nicene so farre that the Decrees they said could not be retracted without 1 Si ergo Spiritus SaÌ„ctus coÌ„sedit Patribus vt manifeste consedit ordinauit que ordinata sunt qui retractat ea Spiritus Sancti cassat gratiam SaÌ„cta Synodus dixit Omnes haec dicimus Anathema qui retractat Conc. Chalced. Acti 1. making void the grace of the Holie Ghost And others accordinglie saie they were 2 S. Leo Epist 53. 54. vide etiam S. Aug. li. 6. de Bapt. c. 39. diuinelie ordained 3 Si quis fidem illam à saÌ„cta magna Synodo optimè diuino afflatu definitaÌ„ ac expositam dicere voluerit basim animarum nostraruÌ„ fundamentum que inconcussum munitum is vtique probatissime loquitur Lib. 1. de Trinit apud Cyrill Alexand Suis auteÌ„ verbis à nobis scribatur diuinuÌ„ sanctissimum Synodi illius Oraculum IbideÌ„ Vide S. Ambros li. 1. de Fide ad Gratian. oracles of faith It sufficeth to make instance in that one being the first oecumenicall that was celebrated after the Apostles daies to shewe that it stopped not in them but was continued after their the Apostles time vnto the Church And in like manner it was affoorded afterwards to the second and the third and fourth the decrees of which 4 li. 1 Regest Epist 24. Quintum quoque Concilium pariter veâ—eror Ibidem S. Gregorie our Apostle did honour as the Gospels and so also to the rest by vertue of one and the same Promise made absolutelie to the Church Vpon which promise that also of the Apostles did relie as before hath been obserued Moreouer the Fathers held that the definitioÌ„s of oecumenicall CouÌ„cells might not be called into a Conc. Chalc. acti 1. anathema â—â—qui reâ—ractat De rebus apud NicaeaÌ„ apud Chalcedonam definitis nulluÌ„ audemus inire tractatum tanquaÌ„ dubia vel infirma sint quae tanta per Spiritum sanctuÌ„ fixit authoritas S. Leo epist. 78. vbi plura in eandem sententiam doubt that they were rather to loose their b S. Ambros epist 32. S. Hier. contra Luciferian liues then to denie them that those who did oppugne them were c Nullo modo fieri potest vt qâ—i diuinis aâ—dent contradicere sacramentis aliqua nobis communioâ—e socientur S. Epist 78. Patâ—facieÌ„tes in omnibus probantes non esse omnino inter Catholicos computandos qui definitiones venerabilis Synodi Nicenae vel sancti ChalcedoneÌ„sis Concilij regulas noÌ„ sequuntur Ibidem not Catholikes but d S. August de Haeres nu 69. S. Basil epist. 78. S. Athanas epist ad Epict. Vincent Lyri c. 41. heretikes And the Councels themselues did e Conc Nice Ephesin c. anathematize all that reiected or dissented from them Now by these anathematismes and excommunications by the deepe censure and branding with the note of Heresie by the deniall of the name of Catholike to such as did stubbornelie contradict oecumenicall definitions by the knowne custome of the Pastors in all ages and cases of greatest difficultie when soeuer they could with safetie meete in Councell to define sub anathemate and to oblige all to conformitie without further dispute or doubt they being the men whom our Sauiour hath giuen to teach his people and establish theÌ„ in the truth by the generall obedience of the Symbolicall or vniuersall Church in all times to the Pastors so teaching manifested in their acceptation of such Decrees and conformable profession of the faith by the esteeme which holie Fathers had of Councells whereof in Saint Augustine I gaue an instance in the case of S. Cyprian and by the Apostles practice in regard and contemplation of the promise together with their reall interpretation of it the meaning of those words The Spirit of truth shall teach you all truth and He gaue Pastors and Doctors that wee be not wauering or borne about with euerie winde of doctrine is so discouered and the tradition of assistance and direction afforded to Councels oecumenicall in their decrees of faith so confirmed that a weaker sight then yours may discerne it You may further call to minde that the Councels wherein the Controuersies betwixt the Protestants and vs are defined be receaued by the whole Church and by it vniuersallie approued Wherefore had any of those you name told you that an oecumenicall Councell might mistake and erre the decrees of faith made in these Councels as in that of Trent for example had still beene according to their iudgment notwithstanding to be admitted because the Vniuersall Church hath receaued and approued them And you opposing them do oppose not a Councell onlie but the Catholike and Vniuersall Church and the Spirit in her the Spirit of truth remaining in and with her to teach her all truth That this is the Catholike Church and not yours nor the whole companie of such as professe themselues Christians as it includes both the Orthodox and Hereticks you see proued and defended f Disp of the Church elswere If your Spirit be disposed to contradict it bring your Catalogue of men that held your Articles all men purelie Orthodox according to the new straine without any defect or superstruction whose tenents intirelie be * The Vniuersalitie of the Church and the long Communion of the Graecians and other Nations with it is demonstrated at large by C. Baronius in his Annals and briefelie in the Disputation of the Church pag. 145. 146. 147. 148. By the Church thus Vniuersall in her flourishing time the Nestorian and Eutychean Heresies which made against the fundamentall articles of Christianitie and the coÌ„mon Creede were you know coÌ„demned and such as abbetted theÌ„ were cut of froÌ„ CoÌ„munion lawfullie and oecumenicallie in the Councels of Ephesus and Chalcedon Wherefore in the Catalogue which you are to make do not put vnder the titles of Orthodox or Members of the Catholike Communion any Nations or People howeuer great approuing and maintaining either of these Errours Such as were the Nestorians Armenians Iacobites Abassins and Aegyptians or Cophti as appeares by Photius Damascen Euthymius Nicephorus Prateolus Guido Baronius Miraeus Godignus and others Neither can you challeng them as yours when they were re-vnited to the Church and See of Rome as the Grecians Armenians and others were in the Councell of Florence Acta Conc. Flor. in Decreto Eugen. Aemilius Platina Chalcondas Gordonus See also Miraus Not. Episc li. 1. c. 18. but you must finde a time when they neither held with vs nor abbetted either of the foresaid Heresies but were entirelie Protestant or Orthodox in your sence And the Catalogue must represent vnto vs in all Ages some of these so many as may challeng from all other Communities the title of the Catholike and Vniuersall Church If you looke vpon the whole aggregation of Christian Churches that euer were in the world before Luther you shall finde the Societie of beleeuers in Communion with the See of Rome to be without all Controuersie the greatest and most Vniuersall And that Arians Nestorians Iacobites Armenians and others going out of it to subsist by themselues neuer could arriue any of them to that Vniuersalitie Where you will finde or feigne your ProtestaÌ„t more Vniuersall Congregation or of what kind of men or what fantoms rather it doth consist wee shall know when your descriptioÌ„ of the Spaces Imaginarie comes out in print What is to be obserued in the drawing of your Catalogue hath beene partlie told you in the Disp lib. 1. c. 1. 2. 3. 4. currant there and iustified by you their children and this continuallie euer since the Apostles daies with Pastors lawfullie ordained Proue that yours was and that ours was not the Church which hath celebrated Councels condemned Heresies conuerted Nations c. Meane while and euer for this taske will be neuer donne wee do securelie subscribe to the Decrees of Councels oecumenicall approued and receaued generallie by that CoÌ„munitie out of which your Father Luther went and do not doubt at all to imbosome our selues in that Church which by SuccessioÌ„s of Bishops froÌ„ the See Apostolike hath euen to the acknowledgment and confession of mankind obtained the top of Authoritie Hereticks in vaine barking round about and condemned partlie by the iudgment of the very multitude or common people partlie by the grauitie of Councels and partlie by the maiestie of miracles To which Church not to giue the prize it is verilie either extreame impietie or foole-hardie presumption
quâ—d antiquitus abomnibus Ecclesiae Catholicae Sacerdotibus vniuersalis Concilij authoritate decretum Deinde si qua noua c. c. 41. ExeÌ„pluÌ„ adhibuimus SaÌ„cti CoÌ„ciliâ— quod antè trienmum fermè in Asia apud Ephesum celebratum est c. Vniuersis Sacerdotibus qui illò ducenti feré conuenerant c. omnes verò Catholicos sacerdotes fuisse c. c. 42. Wee haue said that in the antiquitie of the Church two things are greatlie and with greate diligence to be obserued quibus wherevnto all those must adhere steedfastlie that will not be hereticks why do you start first of all if any thing should be auncientlie defined with the authoritie of an oecumenicall Councell by all the Priests of the Catholick Church and next if any new question should arise wherein that were not found recourse to be made to the opinions or sentences of holie Fathers those onelie who euerie one in their owne time and place were found to be approued masters continuing still in the vnitie of communion and faith and what soeuer they be found to haue held with one and the same meaning and consent that without all scruple should be iudged the true and Catholike doctrine of the Church Here besides the faith and profession of the Church symbolicall or vniuersall be two other rules wherevnto all that will not be flat heretiks must of necessitie conforme themselues the decrees of oecumenicall Councells and the vniforme consent of Fathers I leaue you now to compare your condition with his opinion What he deliuers in this matter is not his doctrine alone c. 1. That you conceaue him the better he presentlie brings for instance or example the proceedings of the Councell of Ephesus held l c. 42. three yeares no more before he wrote this booke wherein Nestorius was condemned the anathematismes of the Councell you may see when you please It is worth the noting by the way for it is your practise too and indeed of all hereticks that Nestorius as he relates in the end of the chapter renounced the authoritie of the Church in deciding controuersies affirming m c. 43. totam etiam nunc errare semper errasse Ecclesiam that the whole Church euen now in the time of the Councell doth erre and alwaies hath erred In the last chapter of all he brings in the authoritie of the See Apostolike and in fine concludes his booke If neither Apostolicall definitions nor Ecclesiasticall decrees whereby according to the sacred consent of vniuersalitie and antiquitie all Heretikes euer and in fine Pelagius Caelestius Nestorius haue been deseruedlie condemned be to be violated it is necessarie verilie that all Catholikes hereafter which haue a care to shewe themselues lawfull children of the mother-Church be associated and close ioyned vnto the faith of the holie Fathers and so insist that they die in it and that they detest abhorre speake against persecute the prophane nouelties of prophane men §. XIII Exceptions against a text or two refuted THE last Opposition which you make is against two of the places of Scripture which our Deuines bring to confirme the Councels infallibilitie These also least you conceaue there is difficultie I will consider as farre as your Opposition goes though otherwise not meddling with the Question de Iure which you finde in our Deuines discussed at large and then make an end The one of these places containes our Sauiours promise of the Holie Ghosts assistance made vnto the Church The Spirit of Truth when he comes shall teach you all truth Ioan. 14. 16. The other of the places represents vnto vs the interpretation of the forsaid promise as it was vnderstood by the Apostles who relying on it met in Councell and there defined a Controuersie It hath seemed good to the Holie Ghost and to vs. Acts 15. Against the former place you saie first that it is meant of the Apostles onlie This is false for it is foreuer I will aske my father and he will giue you another comforter that he remaine with you for euer the Spirit of truth And apud vos manebit he shall remaine with you Io. 14. the Catholike Church is his mysticall bodie which cannot subsist without his Spirit and for confirmation and illustration of her faith not onelie in the Apostles time when our Sauiour was gone but euer since after they be gonne she needs assistance of the Spirit Neither was it his minde to leaue the faithfull without such comfort non relinquam vos orphanos Ioh. 14. I will not leaue you orphans O father establish confirme sanctifie them in the truth I aske not for them onlie Ioh. 17. the Apostles but for the Church for those which by their word shall beleeue in me That by thy prouidence for my sake in our Spirit all be as it were one and agree to their proportion as wee doe who doe iudge and approue still the same But tell me hath the Spirit left the Church or is he still in it if he hath left it how hath she supernaturall operations how doth she beleeue the diuine word how doth she subsist as the Gospell saith she shall notwithstanding all the endeuours of hell it selfe Mat. 16. If he doth remaine in it it is then true that the promise holds still euen that which was made vnto the Church in the Apostles time and began first to be fulfilled in them The greatest promises in all the Scripture be two one of God the Father to send his sonne to redeeme the world the other of God the Sonne to send the holie Ghost his spirit to teach and instruct his Church if you doe not beleeue the later is performed you will giue vs cause to thinke that you would euacuate the former too and not trust God at all in his promise nor in his couenant neither though so farre you trust one another Ierem. 35. Ezech. 37. I will giue my lawe in their bowels and in their hart I will write it and I will be their God and they shall be my people My Spirit that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth Isa 59. shall not depart out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed and out of the mouth of the seed of thy seed saith our Lord from this present and foreuer See the Disp li. 3. Secondlie you saie that it is not to be vnderstood of all the dogmaticall points or doctrine by our Sauiour reuealed and deliuered vnto the Church but of some points onlie â—hose which are expressed in the Apostles Creed and not necessarilie of all those neither Here againe you doe manifestlie contradict the text of Scripture and open the waie to let errour and heresie into the Church For if the holie Ghost teach no more by the promise of our Sauiour then those fewe points it is impossible for men to knowe the truth touching other reuealed verities though they be necessarie to be knowne