sinners c. but repent least that chaunce to you that came vpon them And againe looke I pray you howe you stumble in your owne tale You would prooue that none hath receiued their ministerie from the mouth of God you'speake of Paule did not Christ speake to him after his ascention from heauen and I pray you tell mee what ministration that euer was true came froÌ„ other then Gods owne mouth you are taught to flee such boasters like enough for so Satan hath alwayes taught his children And as concerning the badge whereby you woulde knowe them is as you set downe by publique declaration which is vtterly false For Moyses onely shewed his ministration to the Israelites Abraham to his children Noc to his familie Lott to his housholde and all the Prophets to Gods peculier children the Apostles in priuate houses c. And nowe to be short the disciples of Christe â–ª or his worde which are taught by the doctrine of Christ our sauiour out of the mouth of H. N. do confesse freely before all men the ground of their faith and religion and though you will not credit it yet it doth not followe that it is not so except this reason as God forbid should alwayes holde like as it hath holden of late Because men say I am a theefe therefore no proofe of lawe the testimonie of my neyghbours with whome I liue nor mine owne words against so simple an alligation must be permitted but all is vntrue nowe except it be to proue your false words slaunderous brutes trewe Here we finde will and vniustice on your parte to haue more rule then equitie or good reason And nowe therefore master Rogers will I euen out of loue to an admonition of you to your preseruation display vnto you a little of the difference betwixt the doctrine of H. N. yours He exhorteth according to the doctrine of Iesus Christ mentioned in the Scriptures to true repentâ—unce godly loue an vpright faith and dutifull obedience c. euen like as many of you at this day in words do but yet he with more power for he manifesteth according to the trueth that none among all the children of men shal be found meete in the sight of the Lord to beare the names of Christians boast they neuer so much of their Christianitie freedome or iustification by Christe in their vnregenerated life as they wil which hath not submitted them selues in true repentance vnder the obedience of Gods holie lawe which is administred vnto them in the seruice of Loue for to become first disciples of the same worde to a reformation of their owne wayes and not to go presently foorth with the knowledge and teach others as you do before they be come taught and reformed thereby neyther yet to iudge others therwith as you now do before they be come first iudged thereby which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the father And then being so taught vnto Iesus Christ in the holie lawe to take vp in the beleefe their crosse daily on them with Christ against the sinne which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the Sonne vntill that Christe which is the way the trueth and the life it selfe haue gotten a liuing shape or fourme in them by faith and that they through the Spirite of loue or Christ be raised vp againe in a newe life which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the holy Ghost wherevnto all the Familie of Loue or of God at this day are louingly called and doe meane by Gods assistance most earnestly to endeuour themselues but yet with much more quietnesse mought they haue rest by such enimies to all godlynesse as you are Although you be vnaquainted with this doctrine â–ª or rather true baptisme here following yet would wee not therefore haue you belye vs according to your accustomed manner and saye that we deny the holy sacrament therof And although this infallible Christian doctrine of Loue Faith Obedience and Life which is taught by H. N. in the seruice of Loue accordeth with all Scriptures remaineth yet vnknowen much lesse practised amongst you free ones or Lybertines and this true repentance which is taught vnder the obedience of the holy lawe of God the Father this true crosse of Iesus Christ which is taught vnder the obedience of the beleefe of God the Sonne and this true resurrection or newenesse of life which is taught vnder the obedience of the loue of God the holie Ghoste is nowe blasphemed despised and resisted as an vnneedefull thing of you yet is the same neuerthelesse by the Familie of Loue or of God found to be the olde and true way corespondent with all the doctrine of the Apostles of Iesus Christ and therefore so needefull that without it looke ouer the Scriptures againe so mâ—ny as be wise among you there shall no man finde mercie with God or els through Iesus Christ become saued Then Alas master Rogers â–ª alas what haue you done I hope nothing yet but out of ignorance I would then you woulde looke better into the matter for if H. N. be a minister of the Lord then you haue much ouershot your selfe I leaue Stephan Bateman to the righteous iudgement of the Lord as one in whome there is small hope of any goodnesse Wherefore the Lorde God for his Christes sake graunt you eyes of vnderstanding and a repentant heart to aske forgiuenesse for so maliciously blaspheming Gods loue and trueth extended towardes vs out of mercie vndeserued and to aske mercie for deprauing such a gratious worke of God published forth nowe in the last time to all mens preseruation that desire to walke â–ª therein whereof we shal be right glad and then shal you be deliuered from that lying spirite which nowe seeketh like as in times past with moste horrible slaunders lyes to deface all good all such as indeuour themselues therevnto So shal it come to passe to Gods glorie your saluation our comfort Amen Your vnknowen friend The aunswere of I. R. to â–ª the letter of the Familie I Receiued a letter from you as from an vnknoweÌ„ friend conteining matter inuectiue against my booke as also verie many contumelious slaunderous speaches touching my honestie both which to aunswere you shall finde me readie and willing although not with like speach of disdaine sauouring of the spirite of enuie and not of loue To all which speach touching my honestie this shall serue for answere the Lord deale so and so betwéene vs as you vniustly charge me with waightes measures wares c but the contents of my booke disquieteth your moode the which you shal finde more large in aunswering 1 The first matter you tell me that no honest man woulde assay to defende so vnhonest attempts to defend my honestie I will not in this place my protestation shall serue but if the cause be dishonest then I am worthy great reprehension but you mistake me vtterly that I reprehend
that he would be euer with his to the end * of y world â–ª to what purpose haue so many notable men suffered Martyrdome both in the primatiue Church vnder heatheÌ„ Emperors daily do suffer vnder the persecuting and cruell Papists If these haue not suffered for the trueth where shall wee seeke for trueth at thâ— handes of H. N whose doctrine so farre disagreeth from truth as light from darknesse This is a true saying Truth loueth no corners if the doctrine of H. N. be a truth why is it taught in corners Why dare none sâ—ep forth to mainteine the doctrine of H. N. being euery wher spokeÌ„ against why dare none of y Illuâ—inâ—t Elders whiche can not erre nor sinne come before the simple ones in Christes schoole and proue their authours doctrine good by the holy Scripture Their answere is that feare of death doth cause them to bee silent Did Christe or his Apostles so If we perteine vnto Christe Iesus wee must * be like vnto him in suffering that wee may reigne with him beeing called to witnesse the trueth And this is a thing also to be wondred at amongest the Familie that if conference be vrged at their hands they denie it vtterly if disputation be offered they flee from it egerly the reason is their doctrine dareth not abide the light nor the triall of the touchstone If there were nothing else to proue their doctrine false this were sufficient I coulde declare of discentions that are amongst theÌ„ how many of their great Rabbines or Illuminate Elders haue beene plaine Arrians haue recanted at Paules Crosse Also how often they haue altered their opinions as well touching communitie of thinges as diuers other points But because they will lay to my charge that I seeke onely to make them odious to the world I ceasse to speake any further bycause I rest hoping in their conuersion which I beseech the Lorde our God to graunt for his Christes sake There is one other thing which as they affirm moueth them to be silent â–ª because there is no publique Magistrate that will mainteine their doctrine therefore they are constrayned to be still If this be a cause sufficient let the reader iudge Shall a trueth be hidden because no Magistrate will giue it maintenance Certainely if the Apostles had ceassed to preach Christe vntill they had warrant from the Magistrate I thinke many nations had bene yet vnconuerted But I will not let to put them in memorie where they had maintenance of a Magistrate Euen in Munster a citie of Westphalia where Iohn Leyden and Knipper Dolling shewed the fruites and effectes of their doctrine Nothing they taught nor published but that which they affirmed to receiue from God by reuelatioÌ„ What murders â–ª what abhominations they exercised during their reigne and gouernment Iohn Sleydan a man liuing at that time and of good credit hath manifestly published declared And these men were Hollanders and schollers of Dauid George whose disciple your authour H. N. was at that time although now he publish his doctrine in his owne name and saith y he hath receyued the same not by mans ministerie but at y mouth of God whose sound voice he saith he hath heard The Scriptures do teach vs to flie from such men as boast of such vanities that they are taught by reuelation For * Paul when he was conuerted was sent by Christ to Anâ—niâ—s to be instructed * Cornelius was seÌ„t to Peter Almightie God to teach his children vseth always the office ministery of man The Israelits had their Prophets men instructed by God I grant but they had their testimonie of their calling ioyned with their office as a seaâ— badge which was a bold publicatioÌ„ of their message without feare because it was a truth and there was ioyned commonly therewith the working of myracles whiche seales your authour wanteth For neither H. N. nor any that followe that doctrine dare boldly speake what they beleeue * nor render a reason of their faith and hope as the apostle Peter hath written although H. N. calleth himselfe a Prophet and hath intituled a booke called The Prophefie of the spirite of loue in which booke his manifest follie is openly declared as by reading this small treatise thou shalt find The Lord God for his Christes sake open their eies and mollifie their hard and stonie hearts that they may beholde the suttleties conteined in the doctrine of the family and imbrace the ioyfull promises which Christ our Lorde hath set forth to vs in his Gospel and that his Gospel y his Church may be free from such deprauers of Christ Iesus his death and passion so shall we his children reioyce ouer their conuersion and magnifie the name of the Lord our God to whom be praise and dominion now and euer Stephan Bateman to the gentle Reader CHristian Reader consider I pray thee howe from the beginning there hath euer bene such discordaunce founde as hath bred great dissention among the creatures of the worlde for by the wicked the death of the godly hath euer bene hastened And I gather it to be for this cause onely that the absence of suche godly mighte seeme to the froward a peaceable being when not rebuked for their wicked and vngodly liuing they might as it seemed vnto them liue secure to doe what in their eyes and mindes seemed best This subtile engine had Sathan in the beginning when hee stirred Caine to sâ—ay his brother Abell And why because his brothers sacrifice was good and his euill c. Likewise as from a corrupt tree there hath sprong foorth suche sappe by the instigation of Sathan in the members of the vngodly as ambition hypocrisie false religion and suche like that to haue a place of gouernement according to their natures they haue driuen the Churche of Christe by many extremities into out Isles of the world and when by Gods mightie assistaunce they haue for a time inioyed quietnesse yet suchâ— hath bene the malicâ— of the olâ— serâ—â—â—t and his members to beginne againe with â—ew deuised torments to disqviet the peaceable seruice of Christes Church which notwithstanding in spite of that furie hath euer hâ—d stay in one place or other And for the yet hoped time after many attempts they migâ—t get the victorie the diuell to the intent that bâ— domesticall discorde the church of Christ might be throughly shaken as a lâ—ing spirit begate errour errour begate heresie hoâ— euen vnder the visard of hypocrisie to feigne the pure religion by outward resemblance and so in time to bring in his maâ—e Idolatrie that then betwixt theÌ„ both they might in short space hatch superstition practising the Church insteade of the creator to worship not onely the creatures but also idolâ— made by themselues which as soone as euer the true Churche espied beganne to separate themselues from that sâ—lthie broode then came discorde and with him diuision which
fayth which Christe Iesus planted in you and haue digged vp puddels of corupte waters vnto your selues Consider I pray you front whence ye are departed and whether you are come ye are gone from the comfortable promises in Christe Iesus touching the forgiuenesse of our sinnes our consolation redemptiō are driuen too fro with many vaine persuasions of H. N. that first you shall be made partakers of the holie vnderstanding then inioye the vpright fréedome to be frée from sinning and lastly come to be an Illuminate Elder to be Deified with God with such fantasies are ye fedde and suche doctrine are ye taught but how these thinges agrée with the holie Scripture is partely shewed before Miserably is your simplicitie deceiued through these false teachers and yet howe vnwilling ye are to sée this your nakednesse made manifest by proofe I can testifie Haue a regard at the last vnto your owne soules whiche Christe hath déerely bought if you perteine vnto him let them not be snared in such doctrines of men yea men of the worst sort But if there be any loue of GOD in you loue the Lorde Iesus and be of his Churche which you can not be imbracing H. N. and his doctrine Consider his loue his mercie and his patience in suffering vs to fall into many temptations that our returne might be the more ioyfull to him I pray you marke but this one thing in their teaching how they driue the true sense of the holie Ghost into allegories And when so euer any texte of the holie Scriptures is alledged by any of Gods children they aunswere that we little vnderstande what is meant thereby and then if they be pressed to expounde the place by and by it is drawne into an allegorie For they take not the creation of man at the first to be historicall according to the letter but méere allegoricall alluding that Adam signifieth the Earthly man the Garden the Woman the Serpent to be within man and applying stil the allegory they destroye the trueth of the historie H. N. in the first Epistle deuision 19. For. H N. biddeth his Familie Come eate of the tree of life that standeth in y midst of the paradise of the Lord Come eate and taste of the hidden bread of the Loue and liue eternally And as they expound this place thus euen so doe they all the whole course of the scripture leauing nothing certeine to our fayth for by as good righte may they make an allegorie of Christes death and Passion and say that CHRIST signifieth annointed and so alluding and following that sense denie that the man Christe Iesus died and so by application of the Allegorie diminish our faith and hope And in déede when I was earnestly solicited by some of the Family to imbrace that way which the mercie of the Lord kept me from the first steppe that I should haue entered into the depth of their diuinitie was to learne the signification of the Hebrue names of the Scripture and thereby to expound the same What a miserable case is this to sée the holie Scriptures thus drawen from the true sense into Allegories whiche may be taken many wayes euen as the vaine imagination of man can deuise And surely it is verie pernicious and hurtefull thus to expound the holie Scripture and yet the simple people not séeing the deceipte hereof doe thinke that these bée notable men and haue the spirite of GOD and that they teache them suche thinges therby as they neuer heard of before I denie not but sometimes the allegory may be well applied and to good purpose but when we applie the allegorie to destroy the true sense of the holy ghost it is by no meanes to be admitted For if we take such true histories as the holy Ghost hath left to his Church wherby he sheweth what his will is and drawe the same into an allegorie what do we leaue certain that our faith may depend vpon and where is our hope if allegories may haue place For as I saide before they expound this place of Saint Paule 1. Cor. The last trumpe shall blowe and the dead shall rise c. The last trump is the last doctrin whiche shal be blowne vpon the earth whiche is this of H. N. And the dead shall rise that is ▪ such as were dead in sinne shall be raised vp by the same trumpe of doctrine What a horrible matter is this to sée the holy Scripture thus drawen like waxe vnto euery purpose A man would thinke that no man hauing his senses would euer credit such fantasies and vanities but I know too many that haue a speciall liking of this teaching do unbrace it as the trueth of god Many partes of this our countrey is pitifully snared by such vaine techers as Christopher Vittell is yea not a few ministers of the simple sort are her with intangled with sorrow I speak it and I wold to God that the chiefest place in this realme were frée of these men If we should examine what is the cause of this errour surely our sinnes is the chiefe which doth prouoke the iustice of GOD to afflict vs with such false teachers and the negligence of our ministers which eyther can not or will not impugne their errour in countrie townes where it is imbraced The malice of Sathan is not behind who séeing the ioyful succéeding of the Gospell of Christ the sonne of God doth stirre his stumps in his members to impugne the same There is no Apothecarie in the worlde able to qualifie the bitternesse of his potion or medicine as our enimie is to qualifie the bitter and poysoned doctrin of H. N. Vittell with such swéete pretences of a holy life and vpright conuersatiō which in déed are but mere visars cloaks to shadow horrible blasphemie Such subtiltie hath Sathan that nowe enuying Christ ▪ Iesus his gospel doth stirre vp his members to disquiet the Church of God with this absurd senslesse errour And surely we were forewarned of such seducers that in the latter times would deceiue the simple the holy Ghost doth set thē foorth what kind of men they should be proud boasters y they haue the spirite of God as is witnessed 1. Tim. 4. vers 1. In y latter days some shal depart from the faith and shal giue heede vnto the spirites of errour doctrines of diuels And againe the 2. Epist. 3. chap. vers 5. Hauing a shewe of godlinesse but haue denied the power thereof turne away therefore from such Also Peter 2. Epist. 2. Chap. vers 1. But there were false Prophets also among y people euen as there shall bee false teachers among you whiche priuily shall bring in damnable heresies euē denying y Lord that hath bought them bring vpon them selues swift damnation and many shal follow their damnable wayes by whome the way of trueth shal be euil spoken of The same Chapter verse 21. For it had bene better for them not to haue
Therefore to conclude for our true principles we referre you to the briefe rehersall and for any other difference to these premisses and all other doubtes we haue sufficiently resolued you as wee thinke in plaine speeche out of hartie loue Let this therefore suffise for an aunswere at this time The Lorde for his mercie graunt you and vs all inclyned heartes to doe his will but first to leaue our owne will and to indeuour vs with all the elect of God and Christe to the renouation in the spirite vz. that wee all in one heart of godly loue mought as liuing stones bee fast couched or coupled together in Iesus Christe to an holy house temple or familie of Loue or of God in as much as God is Loue and not any longer to striue but much rather as seruanntes of the Lorde in all meekemindednesse to humble our soules vnder this his great grace loue and mercie wherevnto wee all are so louingly called and warned by him and his holie Gospell in the ministration of the loue in the last time Amen This aunswere is to your first Letter Your louers and friends F. L. The answere of I. R. to the reply of the Family of Loue. BY perusing of your reply to my first answere I perceiue that our conference is to small purpose for that you cōtinue stil of the same mind you were and your crabbed slaunderous words towards me is nothing impaired with your smooth answer saying we charge you not with weightes wares c. If you of purpose had not charged me here with what néeded any mention of such slaunders but as in other thinges so in this you bewray your stomacks and of what spirite you are You take witnes My Lord of Canterburie whose minde concerning your great Rabby Vittell is knowen to many You affirme the cause I take in hande is surely dishonest The cause is Christes whose office and death is impaired and made of no effect by your doctrine of perfection and shadowed by H. N. so darkely that the children of GOD abiding in the vnitie of his Church do greatly lament your follie You say I haue belyed and slaundered my poore neighbours impudently and yet you shewe no matter wherein only you finde fault with vnorderly setting downe your Authours spéech No man can kéepe order with him that is without order Of adding diminishing you often charge me and shewe not in what place nor in what sentence I will not vse your vnhonest tearmes of impudencie but surely you deale in this case as the Papistes are woont to charge the doctrine of Christs Gospell which we professe that it bréedeth sedition that it pulleth Princes out of their seats openeth a gap to liber tie c. which howe truely these are imputed the eies of al do at the last behold The feare of our rigorous dealing forceth you to lurke in corners you say what rigour I pray you was euer shewed either to you or your companions the Papistes for their conscience Imprisonment you would say vpon submission which is no rigor Of such an houshold as we haue challenged to our selues you say you are strangers we confesse our selues to be of no other houshold then of Christes staying vpon the puritie of his word if you will be straungers from the same willingly it is great pitie You had rather follow H. N. then Christ and yet confesse that H. N. signifieth not any mans name but hath some other meaning which you ne wee can tell What a lamentable case is this that men hauing any sence or vnderstanding would credite such vncerteine wayes to follow an Authour doctrine so egerly and yet confesse you are ignoraunt who he is or what he is As for your confession published as I saide it is a mockerie for it is sounde and agréeing to vs Why halt you so cunningly Why will you dance in a nett and not be séene Do you in your confession impugne the doctrine of predestination or the possibility of the law c. or doe you once mencion the same therein and yet in your letters you shewe your dislyking of such doctrine terming it licentious Is not this déep dissembling and yet call it plaine dealing I would not haue you accuse your selues as you vniustly charge me but vse a simple and playn trueth and shew your minds truely and not hide it craftely and set downe pointes of doctrine agréeable with vs and say it is your confession of faith where you conceale the chéefe matters in variance betwéen vs Oh when will you deale plainly a wicked doctrine requireth shiftes and delayes but trueth openeth her selfe plainly to al in y day light And for your weakelings which haue recanted you say they were suche as coulde scarsely read english You forget your selfe very much was Sharpe and his companie which recanted at the crosse were they suche as you would beare vs in hand simple Sharpe was a teacher and others that I could name were not of the least account among you yet to help their weakenesse you call them simple men c. I know that some of thē haue followed the doctrine of H. N. these 18. yeares I take you not to be so olde a scholler in the Family You say you wil not conuince vs by the testimonies of the scriptures for it lyeth not in your power neither were you so dealt withall Surely this is very straunge It is the Lord that hath conuinced you and brought you vnder his Crosse but I pray you came this to passe by reuelation or by mans ministery If man was the minister you would haue vs beléeue that H. N. was he but it appeareth not that you are vnder Christes Crosse for in patience he suffered all wrongs and there was no deceipt nor guile found in his mouth He commanded his doctrine to be published to all the worlde not in corners but on the house toppe not faintly and fearefully but boldely and couragiously he suffered contumelious spéech and slaunderous but you do vse spéech of slaunder and disdaine as appeareth so that you haue not learned Christes crosse but H. N. his crosse As for Maister Knewstubs doings as yet not exstant you rashly and foolishly cauill at him before you heare him and condemne his doinges before you sée them and say that he will display himselfe euen as I haue done This is impudencie in the highest degrée to iudge and condemne a man before he be heard what he can say this doeth bewray of what mind and spirite you are What conference can do you good It séemeth your heart is hardned with the riddles of H. N. y so make your selues knowen to all Gods children it had bene more agréeable to the spirite of God to haue suspended iudgement vntill the worke had bene séene My adherentes in diriston you often name I tel you truly that the church of Christ Iesus are those adherents for I mainteine no other doctrine then y which in Christs Churche by publique
THE DISplaying of an horrible secte of grosse and wicked Heretiques naming themselues the Family of Loue with the liues of their Authours and what doctrine they teach in corners Newly set foorth by I. R. Wherevnto is added certeine letters sent from the same Family mainteyning their opinions which Letters are aunswered by the same J. R. IMPRINTED AT London for George Bishop 1579. ¶ The Preface of the Authour to the Reader WHEN I began to write of this doctrine of the Familie of Loue I minded in deed to haue sent it to a friende of mine which is entered into that errour and so to haue made it as a priuate matter betweene vs But when I had shewed the same to certeine of my friendes to haue their iudgement in certeine pointes their importunate suite was that this small treatise might be published in print which request I was loth to grant for diuers causes The chiefe whereof was that Bookes whiche are set foorth vnto the eyes of all the world had need to be circumspectly and diligently examined before thei be made as á glasse for all men to looke vpon For when as there are many beholders there are also many fault finders And in this simple work there are many faultes through ignorance and want of skill committed which I coÌ„fesse not to be done of malice or negligence but in trueth my simple vnlearned capacitie could doe no better The faults are these The rough and harsh stile being rudely and without any good methode set downe because I want the help of those artes which comly aptly couch sentences together whereby the Reader might take the more delectatioÌ„ in reading and perusing of books The order shoud haue bene amended if time would haue suffred but since it is otherwise I beseech thee accept my good will. If any of the familie carpe at this booke because of the rudenesse thereof let them answer it and a reply will speedily be perfourmed wherin their expectation shal be satisfied I dout not by men of godly knowledge and learning In the meane time I wil declare the cause that made me more willing to satisfie my friendes request There are many diligent godly teachers whiche in places conuenient do inuey impugne the doctrine of y Family of Loue yet are not throughly acquainted therwith whereby many in the same family take occasion to exclame against them as slaunderers of their doctrine many also of Gods children hearing the Family of loue spoken against are desirous to know what opinions and doctrine they hold professe Therefore I thought it my dutie which I owe vnto Christes Church as a member thereof to vtter and make manifest vnto all persons what I know touching the Authours and doctrine of the same family And seeing that wee liue amongst so many enimies of Christs Gospell which obiect against vs varietie in opinions it is very requisite that euerie member in Christes Church put too his helping hand to cleanse and purge the Church from such errours and false doctrine as through the malice of Satan daily creepeth in For if we hearing Christe Iesus his death and passion which is our only comfort blemished and darkned by the subtile fetches and persuasions of erronious and wicked men possessed with fantasticall spirites shall not be moued with zeale howe appeareth any loue of God or Christ Iesus in vs or where is become the fruites that should shew a iustifying faith Many that are at case liue securely thinke that this errour will of it selfe vanish decay without stir or gainsaying which saying bewraieth too much their want of y true feare loue of god For if we shall daily heare but our friend euill spoken of and bee still and silent â—hereat what loue or friendship appeareth in vs How much more ought we to bee zealously affected when the glorie of our GOD and the office of Christe Iesus our Lord shal be shadowed and impaired wee sleeping securely without touch or motioÌ„ of true zeale or loue And if we looke into the daily increase of this errour we shall then behold our slouth negligence For in many shires of this our countrie there are meetings conuenticles of this familie of loue and into what number they are grown my heart reweth to speake that which one of the same societie did auouch to me for trueth Therfore it is time to withstand their impious opinions and euerie one according to his charge and office in the Church of Christ to purge and cleanse the same from the dregges and blasphemies of H. N. and his familie And although many errours much false doctrine is taught in the family more then is here expressed which to touch al would require a longer discouerie and a more learned author yet I haue set down for a tast or shew some of their doctrine that the children of God may be armed afore hande and take heede of such impious blasphemies as H. N. teacheth Many Bokes are abrode which I haue not seene and many I haue seene which I could not haue the vse off to reade For except one will be pliant to their doctrine and shew good will thereto he shal hardly get any of their bookes no nor they will not conferre nor talke of any points of their doctrine with any except it be to such as they finde inclined and as they tearme it willingly minded thereto And here I protest that what my pen shall vtter either touching the person of H. N. or his doctrine I malice him not nor his familie I rather pittie theÌ„ their case that so many simple people are by his doctrine seduced and deceiued neither will I auouch any thing which I haue not suffient warrant to proue As touching his person and behauiour I haue the testimonie of diuers ancient persons of good credite of the Dutch church who haue bene acquainted with y same H. N. and haue dwelt together in one citie and in one streete being neere neighbours familiar friendes who haue declared and testified the certeintie of his behauiour demeanour And touching his doctrine I haue vsed this order to set downe the authours owne speech not adding or diminishing any thing with the name of the Book Chapter or follio And whereas I haue directed much speech vnto the Familie the cause is this I haue ben familiar with some of them of long time haue had large discourses and conference with many of theÌ„ therfore if my simple speech vttred by pen may do any of them good I haue that I desire And this hath bene an other cause why more willingly I condescended vnto my friendes request And because H. N. and his family haue protested that the trueth hath no where beene taught in the worlde since the Apostles time but now by the family how vaine this their assertion is in it self appeareth For if truth hath ben hid and buried this 1500. yeares where is become Christes promise
liue vnder the obedience of any magistrate be he neuer so wicked or vngodly the Turke the Pope or whosoeuer 5 Item that they allowe a kinde of shrifte worse then Popish For where the Pope requireth but confession of the act coÌ„mitted they will haue the thoughtes manifested and what our nature and inclination draweth vs vnto 6 Item they holde that the lawe of God is possible to be kept of euerie man that will indeuour himselfe thereto 7 Item that their authour H. N. is the true prophet of God sent to blowe the last trumpe of doctrine which shall be published vpon earth he only knoweth the true sence of the holie scripture 8 Item that his bookes are of equall authoritie with the holie scripture and are written with the same spirite 9 Item all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught or preached by any other then their Illuminate Elders in the Familie 10 Item they commend the Pope and Cardinals and allowe the Masse other their ceremonies The Bookes of H. N. which I haue seene 1 IN primis the first Epistle of H. N. 2 Item the first and second exhortation of H. N. 3 Item a diologue betweene the father and the sonne 4 Item the prophesie â—â— the spirite of loue 5 Item the published peace vppon earth 6 Item the declaration of the masse 7 Item their Euangelium Regni 8 Item the true and spirituall Tabernacle 9 Item the new and heauenly Ierusalem 10 Item a confession of their faith newly made 11 Item sundrie Epistles of H. N. Bookes which I heare of and haue not seene 1 ITem two bookes intituled the glasse of righteousnesse 2 Item a Booke called the holy Lamb. The displaying of the Familie of Loue. WHen I considered the duetie of a Christian to consist in the true profession of Christ Iesus his name diligently to walke in the pathes and wayes manifested in his word and to séeke to beautifie and inrich that beloued spouse the Church of Christ sanctified by his bloude I could not holde backe my penne to publish such matter as I sée daily to blemishe that beloued bride I meane the Church of Christ and to haue crept in by the subtiltie of Sathan our professed enimy Hauing therefore gathered diuers notes of that cankered error of H. N. taken out of his bookes which I haue to shewe I had thought to haue stayed my hande from further frauell but being vrged by diuers of Gods children to manifest this my labour to the end that some nouices of that errour might if it were possible be stayed from further plunging themselues into that gulfe of impietie How the wicked take occasion by these like errours to speake euil of Christs Church the eares of many godly doe heare Especially the Papists who speak and write â–ª and nothing is heard more common in their mouthes then these tearms Ye are at variaunce amongst your selues no vnitie of doctrine is obserued ye are of diuers opinions and sectes But how vntruely they impute these maters vnto the church of Christ to euerie member of the same Church it is euident For if we consider the wisedome of God in gouerning his we shal perceiue that in all ages when Christes Church did most flourish in perfectioÌ„ then was errour and heresies moste rife as may wel appéere euen in the Apostles times by the Nicolaitans Ebionites Cerinthus and others How busily did the fathers in the primitiue Church withstand such heresies as crept in euen in that happie time Tertullianus the Valentinians Augustine the Donatistes and Athanasâ—â—us the Arrians with infinit mâ— as by reading the Ecclesiasticall histories doeth well appeare Wherein what trauell hath béene taken what counsels called what Books written it were a wonder to behold But when corruption began by litle and litle to spread her selfe and got the face of a Church O how were dissentions appeased no varietie séemed to be where as in déede nothing was taught nor published but dreams deuises of men who leauing the certein and knowen wayes of y Lord reuealed in his word betoke theÌ„selues to depend vpoÌ„ the doctrines of men But if we descend into these last times wherein we liue and marke the wisedome of God in gouerning his Churche how he hath manifested his sonne Christ Iesus with an vncouered face to the great comfort of his children how the doting dreams of men are vanished how nothing but Christ Iesus is lifted vp with prayses as the immediate and only cause of our saluation how the true vse of workes is placed not as any cause but as the fruites of our instification And yet to sée how busily sathan enuying the prosperitie of Christes spouse endeuoureth daily in his meÌ„bers to trouble and disquiet this peaceable Sion by raysing vp diuers strange and monstrous heresies as the Anabaptistes the Free will men the Arrians the Pelagians and the Familie of Loue with many others which heresies the Diuell more bufily soweth nowe to disquiet the Churche then heretofore in y time of ignorance when he lulled the most part of y world in errours and dreames of men And séeing that euerie errour doeth seeke his cloake defence by the holie scripture yet we haue great cause to reioyce that onely by the scripture they are all put to silence and their heresies made manifest to all men as by the learned treatises of many graue men in this our age doeth manifestly appeare Of this last errour of H. N. the cheefe piller and vpholder of these errours of the Familie of Loue whereof by the Lordes assistance I minde to leaue behinde me such notes and bréefes â–ª as of certeintie I haue learned bothe of the person and also of his doctrine no man hitherto that I can learne hath endeuoured to confute them in writing Whose Bookes as they haue come to my hande I haue with diligence perused and by much conference with diuers of that Familie learned the doctrine which they followe And whereas they haue béene charged with diuers articles before the highe commissioners yet by no argument that I can learne doe I finde that they holde all the errours conteined in the same Notwithstanding so many as either by the doctrine of Henrie Nicholas or by conference I haue learned I haue set downe to the ende that some good man might be incouraged to confute so impious an authour and such horrible errours and perfourme in some learned worke that whiche my want and capacitie is not able to supply neither would I haue ventured to committe to writing suche rude and ignorant labour the matter béeing in déede â—etter then the handling but in my opinion it is better to haue course bread then none at all And because diuerse with whome I am familiarly acquainted are fallen into this errour of Henrie Nicholas I haue the rather for their sakes bent my studie to doe them good if it be possible And if these simple notes may haue that successe that I wishe I trust it
will stay some of GODS children from running headlong into that bewitched snare And also suche matter as by disputation and conference with some of the same familie I haue boulted out I will declare For in déede the Authour in his Bookes doeth not deale so plainely as one being ledde by the spirite of GOD whereof he boasteth but verie subtilely and darkely and so as the iudgement of many godly and learned men to whom I haue deliuered his Bookes vppon the reading of the same haue testified that there is no matter in the Authour that may bée drawen into argument but that it séemeth to be as a riddle or darke speeche and therefore more intricate to be followed And as his tearmes and phrases are geyson and vnwoonted so they doe dasell the simple with an admiration of a prudent spirite to be in the Authour which of meane wits can neither be comprehended nor vnderstoode And when the Kabbynes of that Family whome they tearme Illuminate Elders haue béene pressed by me and others to giue a reason why the Authour hath so cunningly and subtilely dealt not expressing his minde in plaine tearmes and spéeche the best answere that hath béene made is that the Authour hath writen in the Dutch tongue which wanteth his grace and eloquence béeing turned into our rude Englishe But if I might be bolde to replye without offence his rude stile béeing written in the Dutch tongue is rather beautified by translation then impayred for I haue some copyes in Dutche some in Latin and some in English wherein the Authors barbarous stile and his ignoraunce is verie muche manifested although some of his schollers haue put too their helping handes to garnishe this their barbarous â–ª Author especially the booke intituled Euangelium Regni which is translated into Latin exactly I would to GOD the matter did answere the goodnesse of the tongue And if I should diligently séeke out of what forge the Authour Henrie Nicholas hath fyled his heresies I am certeinly persuaded that one Dauid George was the founder hatcher and bréeder of all this mischiefe and Henrie Nicholas but a disciple or scoller of the same Dauid What this Dauid was you may perceiue by that which is set downe before whose errours also for a tast I will set downe in part as they are collected by the gouernour of the vniuersitie of Basill that all men may sée that an euil authour hath bred a worse scholer And thereby shall be perceiued that Dauid George his opinions differ nothing from H. N. but are so like in wicked boasting that they haue the spirit of God that a man may thereby say an euill father hath begotten a worse sonne Articles taken out of Dauid George AL doctrine taught by Moyses the Prophetes and Christe himselfe are not sufficient to saluation but onely to keepe the people in good order till the comming of me Dauid George but my doctrine is able to saue all those that put their trust therin 2 Dauid George doth further say that he is the right Mesâ—ias the beloued sonne of the Father not borne of the fleshe but of the holy Ghost and when Christ was dead according to the flesh the spirite of Christe was kept at the fathers appointment vntill the comming of Dauid George and giuen to him 3 He saith that he will set vp the true house of Dauid the children of Leâ—â—â— and he will raise the tabernacle of God through the spirite of Christe not by the crosse and suffering but â–ª through meâ—knesse and loue 4 He saith that whosoeuer speaketh against his doctrine shall neuer bee forgiuen neither in this worlde nor in the world to come These I haue set downe as the doctrine of Dauid George founde in his books And bicause their doctrin may be better viewed and séene how they agrée in wicked diuelish phantasies of their own deuice set on by the father of lies our ancient enimie to be a stumbling blocke vnto the simple and to darken and blemish the ioyful procéeding of the glorious Gospell of Christ Iesus which almightie God hath in mercy reuealed to nations kingdomes most plentifully mauger the malice of the diuell and all his children I haue therefore here placed certaine sayinges of H. N. which are word for worde taken out of his bookes that the diligent reader may sée how in wicked boasting they agrée what vile doctrine they publish The errours of H. N. taken out of his owne bookes translated into English. 1 For the being of God or essence gaue foorth his sounde and voyce and spake vnto me H. N. through his spirite of loue all these wordes he sayde Speaking against the Churche he saith 2 For that cause if thou now account not thy selfe for an whore but esteemest thee for the faythfull espoused wise of Christe my iealous conceiuing cannot stande otherwise towardes thee but that thou art a presumptuous whore whiche dissemblest and playest the hypocrite with Christe and couertly committest whoredome and neuerthelesse wilt bee iudged as a faythfull espoused wife of Christe So Shalt thou presenly be constrained to drinke the bitter cursed water of my iealousie 3 All that God hath spoken through his holie Prophetes and what is written of Christ should also in vs and with vs become fulfilled to the honor and glorie of God and to our ioy Out of a Dialogue betweene the father and the sonne Chap. 17. the son concludeth with these wordes SEeing nowe that I my Father haue found out in deede that our Lord the moste highest hath reuealed his mercie seate the possession of his most excellent Maiestie and heauenly riches in thee and with the same beeing of the perfect Godhead made a godly dwelling with thee so were it meete that all the generations of the â—arth submit them selues vnder the same mercie seate and Godly Maiestie and assemble them therevnto Here maiest thou sée these two men boasting theÌ„ selues in their presumption and pride of minde to haue the spirit of God the one saying that the same spirit which was in Christ Iesus when hee liued on earth is nowe in Dauid George which is horible blasphemieâ— and abaseth Moyses the Prophets and Christe him selfe in whose doctrine the certaintie of our faith is firmely fixed against which the gates of hell shal not preuaile promiseth to bring the house of Dauid and the children of Leuie into great prosperitie and to set â–ª them vp not with painful suffring as Christ our Lord in him self hath perfourmed left to vs his children example to follow his steppes in suffering miserie that we might reigne with him in glory but he promiseth to bring his disciples into that glory through méeknesse and loue which in deede is the pleasanter way to be followed if we consider fleshe and bloud H. N. he following his father in like blasphemie auoucheth that he hath talked with God not by inspiration or reuelation but by giuing foorth his sound voyce Then placeth himselfe in Christes
stead and office in iudging the children of God saying My iealous conceiuing can not stande otherwise towards thee but that thou art a presumptuous whore and shalt be constrained to drinke the bitter cursed water of my ielousie If these be not Luciferian voyces I am much deceiued then he saith that what the Prophetes Christ haue written that must be fulfilled in him and with him and that all the generations of the earth must submit them selues vnto the mercy seat and godly maiestie which is in him Thus I suppose my coniecture standeth firme where I saide that Dauid George was the hatcher of this heresie and layde the egge but H. N. brought foorth the chickens How wel they agrée in vaunting them selues doth well appeare and that the sonne is farre worse then the father Surely I could well haue spared my penne in writing this and other their wicked opinions with their patrones haue buried it in silence had it not the zeale of the Lordes house carried me so farre that I could not stay vntill I had published suche matter as came to my handes whereby I sawe the glory of Christ Iesus to be so defaced séeing these wicked impes to place them selues so high in the mindes of many simple people here in England it pitieth me to sée them so snared in this bewitched errour A man would thinke that these things are so vaine absurd that none y were in their right wits would once bend their mindes to imbrace the same In déed if I did not know many of theÌ„ and am truely certified by some of the same fellowship that there are in Engand at the least 1000. in diuers partes of this realme which do hold this vain monstruous opinion of H. N. I would not haue traueled any further But eueÌ„ for their sakes who in déede are simply deceiued and not maliciously holde any thing doe I write and if this my labour may by the Lords will conuert any of that fellowship and bring them into the plaine and manifest way whiche Christ Iesus hath left in his word I haue my expected desire There is no one thing in my opinion that hath so much preuailed with this simple sorte which are members and professours of y Familie of Loue as a certeine shew outwarde face of a holy conuersation which some of their illuminate Elders do séeme to vse Wherein they followe the steppes of the Pelagians and Papists directly whose doctrine of works howe by them we are in the fauour of God and accepted doth in diuers treatises manifestly appeare destroying the worke wrought by Christe our Lorde â–ª by whose bloud we are cleansed and by whose stripes we are healed without this faith in Christ all our works be they neuer so godly are méere impietie If he woorke in vs the will and the déede what haue we to boast of workes If we haue nothing which we haue not receiued what fauor with God doth our works purchase If euerlasting life be the frée gift of God what haue our workes to do in that matter of our saluatioÌ„ It standeth not vpon so â—ickle a point as the vncertaintie of our workes but in suche errours they wander which leaue the wholesome precepts of the holy Ghoste reuealed by the scripture and imbrace the doctrins of men It séemeth that the simple truth which by the Scriptures we be taught and the promises of Christe our Lorde made vnto vs doeth not content their curious heads but vainly they wander in euery vncerteine way estéeming H. N. and his sayings expressed in his book to be of no lesse value and credite then the sacred Scripture written for our comforte not as the workes of men but by the finger of GOD euen the holy Ghoste And whereas H. N. doeth boast him self y he can not erre he saith that with the same lying spirite that is in the Pope affirming the selfe same thing As for the Pope it is manifest ynough without proofe But bycause some may thinke that I auouch that of H. N. that is not to be proued I will set downe his wordes as they are written in his booke intituled The prophesie of the spirit of Loue the 13. chapter where you shall perceiue y H. N. doth couple him self with Moses with y Prophets with Christ and his Apostles very presumptuously affirming that he him selfe can no more erre then they His wordes be these H. N. Chap. 13. verse Moyses the Prophetes Christe and his Apostles and his Minister H. N. they iudge to erre or misse the right rather then acknowledge themselues in their imagination to be ignorant and lying In my opinion H. N. in these words doth somewhat ouermatch the Pope for the Pope doth acknowledge that as he is a man he may erre but as he is Christes vicar or deputie vpon earth he can not erre but H. N. without any distinction doth affirme that he can no more erre then Christe or his Apostles And in déede his bookes are thought amongest his disciples to be of equall authoritie with the scripture and they do affirme that they are written with the same spirit But if their bare affirmation may stand for good proofe then indéed it is somwhat they say but the holy ghost hath taught vs another lesson saying beléeue not euery spirite but trie the spirite whether he be of god And that we may rightly discern this H. N. other wise called Henrie Nicholas which taketh vpon him to be that great prophet sent to rebuke the world of sinne hath written his bookes intituling one The prophesie of the spirite of Loue wherin he prophesieth of many thinges to happen to the Church of GOD before this time but God be thanked his wordes are no warrants he is proued a false prophet and since our Sauiour Christe published vnto the world y glad tidings of his glorious gospel to our great comfort the office of prophesying or foretelling of thinges to come hath ceased in Christes Church Many haue risen and taken vpon them to prophesie and foretell thinges to come â–ª but they haue ben counted false prophets euen as H. N. is Christ our Lord did forewarne vs that in the latter times such false prophetes should rise and false Christes and such daungerous dayes that if it were possible the very Elect should be deceiued Blessed be the Lorde our God which by the light he hath giuen his children in the holy scripture hath so instruct vs that the very childreÌ„ babes are able to confute these false techers false prophets And least the Papistes should imagine that this H. N. should be a professor of the Gospell I will declare manifest causes to proue that he is a right chickeÌ„ of the Church of Rome and harboured many yeares by Granuella a Cardinal Howe he extolleth the Pope to be that great Priest of the West howe he openeth the misteries of the Masse in a book intituled A declaration of the masse
Howe he commendeth euery trifling toye in the Masse by the booke may at large appeare Howe he allowed confession worse then auricular may appear by diuers his owne words which least any should carpe at me I wil set down Howe he agréeth with the Papistes in extolling workes as efficient causes of our saluation I haue before toucheâ— Al which do proue that he is no professour but an enimie to the Gospell of Christe our Lorde H. N. in the first exhortation Chapter 13. Diuision 12. IT is expedient that they shoulde make manifest their whole hart with all their counsels mindes willes and thoughtes together with all their doings dealings and exercises naked and bare before the eldest in the Familie of Loue and not to couer or hide any thing be it what it is before him what their inclination nature draweth them vnto By this it doth appeare that nothing must be kept vntolde or vnreuealed to the eldest Elder in euery their seuerall conuenticles for else it can not be vnderstoode that one man in one countrie shoulde heare all the rest particularly And here they step one foote before the Papistes in my opinion For where the Pope requireth but a confession of the act committed H. N. requireth a declaration of the thought and what the inclination of our nature draweth vs vnto And yet in moe speciall pointes they agrée with the Papistes namely in the possibilitie of the Law to be kept of euery one that will séeke to performe the same And wheras I shewed before that H. N. and the Pope doe both boaste that they can not erre I thinke it not amisse to let H. N. tel his owne tale touching this matter that his scholers may behold that I slaunder him not neither do make his doctrine worse then it is In the first exhortation Chapter 13. Diuision 11. Fol. 31. They ought to beware that they distrust not the eldest in the familie of Loue nor suspect any maner of euil or vnwisdome by him nor yet in any wise persuade them selues that the exercises documents and instructions which are taught or set foorth before them by the father of the Familie of Loue or oldest Elder are too sleight too childish or too vnwise for them to follow after or to obey but with perfect heartes humbly and singly minded as good willing children to receiue the same instructions proceeding out of the wisdome and counsel of the eldest and to stand euen so submitted till they come vnto the manly oldnesse in the Loue. Here is shewed that none must suspect the oldest Elder touching any false Doctrine that he might vtter â–ª nor to thinke any vnwisdome to be in him in which affirmation howe arrogantly doth he challenge that vnto him which is only due to Christ our Lord and to the holy scripture written by the spirite of god And although he bost that he hath the spirite of God and that he is Godded with God God in him Hominified or made man yet are not wée to beléeue suche lying spirites whiche vtter such absurd and blasphemous doctrine contrarie to the Scriptures of god And bycause I am entered into that high point of Diuinitie which amongst the Familie is counted a misterie I thinke it not impertinent to set before the eyes of all the professours of H. N. and his doctrine what the meaning of those termes are to be Godded with God for as they be straunge vnwoonted and vnaccustomed speaches so the doctrine taught in the same is more strange and absurd It were conuenient that we that professe Christe should be content with such phrases as the holy Ghoste doth vtter in the sacred Scriptures and not to séeke curiously strange termes which are not in the holy historie nor consequently can not be gathered out of the same of which number this is one to be Godded with God and vngodded with man the meaning of all such tearmes is this as it is taught by H. N. and imbraced of the Familie They holde as a principle in the schoole that after regeneration we sinn not fortifying this their assertion with this place of the Euangelist S. Iohn He that is borne of God sinneth not hee that committeth sinne is a seruaunt of sinne Againe God heareth not sinners All which places are very truely saide and alledged but to a wrong purpose for the places do not proue that the regenerate man sinneth not but sheweth y sins are not imputed to a regenerate man to condemnation and death He that is borne of God or regenerate sinneth not That is to his distruction euerlastingly The Scriptures do teach vs to distinguish sinnes in this sort to commit sinne is one thing but to abide in sinne or to dwell in sinne or sinne to haue dominioÌ„ in vs as S. Paul saith Let not sinne reigne in your mortall bodies and in the epistle to the Romanes Commit not wickednesse with greedinesse is another thing The last perteineth not to the elect of God For as the children of God do daily fall thorough frailtie and humane imperfections so they are daily renued by the spirite of God which driueth them to repentaunce But with the wicked the case is otherwise For they sitte downe in the seate of the scornefull they committe wickednesse with gréedines saying tush God séeth vs not such sinners God heareth not and such be seruantes vnto sinne Now in the Familie it is otherwise taught and otherwise beléeued For they affirme that after we be regenerated which they terme The vpright freedom we actually sin not neither in thought nor déed And y we may heare the Authour H. N. vtter his own spéech I will set downe what he writeth touching this matter In the Dialogue deuision 26. follio 40. The true freedom is this that the man in his heart minde and spirite be wholy released purged and purified from all wicked nature and sinne whiche hath raigned ouer him and that there dwel liue nor rule any other thing in him namely in all his spirites thoughts mind and soule but alone the true Godhead with the louely beeing of the vpright loue and wholy to be replenished with all the vertues of God and that there â—â—owe nothing else in him but spirituall and heauenly waters Hereby it may appeare what the Authour H. N. thinketh touching regeneration whiche they call The vpright Freedome And as I haue conferred with diuers of the same familie to vnderstand these mysteries which in the end with much a do I haue found out to be y after we be regenerat we sinn not And when I haue required somewhat out of y holie scripture to proue this in the end I haue receiued this for answer God doth promise to dwell with the man that is of a lowly mind humble heart Also ye are the Temples of the holie Ghost And againe the father and I wil make our habitation in man Nowe where Christ dwelleth there also is the father and the holie Ghost where or in
slacke You once did abhorre the Pope as Antichrist and nowe doe imbrace an Authour a right chicken of the Church of Rome who hath opened the mysteries of the Masse and euery trifling toy therein at large in his booke intituled A declaration of the Masse Alas brethren is your faith which once you had in the mercifull promises of Christe Iesus come to this that an obscâ—re man whose person you knowe not and whose books you did neuer vnderstand aright hath stopped that liuely fountaine that did once flow in you Assuredly it is the malice of sathan that hath brought this to passe y you being led out of the way into the bypathes of mans deuices might perish in the same But my hope is that as many of you as pertaine vnto our Lord and sauiour Christ Iesus and are members of the holy communion of Saints shall at the last be brought to sée howe déepe you are fallen and how sore ye haue ben wounded eueÌ„ to death by that deceiuer Christopher Vittell a man borne as it were of purpose for that intent whose erronious spirit the Church of God hath tasted many ways And marke this thing well that man that once is entred into heresies not wel reclaynied is subiect to manifold temptatioÌ„s of our enimie which is well proued in your instructer Vittel who teaching the monstruous opinion of Arrius many yeares together now is possessed with infinite moe errours and is the childe of destruction tenne folde worse then before It is a wonder to sée that men hauing once knowne Christ Iesus do now notwithstanding denie the effect of his office which the doctrine of Henrie Nicholas doth in many pointes and yet is beléeued and imbraced very gréedily of you yea aboue measure It should appear that Christ was not surely fixed in your mindes for if he had no blast of H. N. Vittell nor any could haue separated you from the loue of Christ Iesus Such wandering errours are they subiect vnto that perfectly doe not imbrace our Lord Christ according to his promises manifested and declared in his worde but féede themselues with fantasies and deuices of men yea such men as neuer lerned Christ Iesus truly Such are verified in the scripture Exiére à nobis sed â—on erant de nobis They went out froÌ„ vs but they were not of vs. Euery errour that hath bene in the worlde hath had some patrones and defenders learned and skilfull men in science and arte but this errour of the Familâ—e hath neither Authour nor disciple which are indued with true knowledge or learning For H. N. doth despise such as bring foorth any doctrine out of the learnednesse of the Scripture he saith it is all seducing and lyes that such doe preach or teach yea and it is further auouched by H. N. that none of vs in the Church of God â—an teach the truth of Christ Iesus but only he and such Illuminate Elders as are brought vp in his Familie But as I haue before procéeded it is â—â—uenient that their Authour speak himselfe that the Familie may iudge that I deale indifferently His wordes be these In the prophesie Chap. 8. verse 6. Strangers which walke not with the Familie of Loue or deale falsly therwith tast not of the louely beeing for earthly are all their mindes and thoughtes The Scripturely learned man hath no knowledge of Gods matters hee can not vnderstand any tittle much lesse expounde or interprete the same to others All Scripture appeare to such couered secret in signes and parables neither comprehende they what the same according to the trueth is It is giuen onely to the Familie of Loue to vnderstande the sesecretes thereof Hereby it is manifest that H. N. doeth signifie vnto his Familie that none can speak the truth but he his Elders nor none can vnderstande the scripture but they Upon this persuasion it coÌ„meth to passe y few or none in the Familie doth credite or beléeue any other that teach except H. N. or his Elders How pernitious this matter is if you credite his speach shal appeare And if truth be tied except he be sent If H. N. can proue vnto vs that he is sent of God as he boasteth then he is to be credited but we haue shewed that his voyces are not the voyce of God reuealed to vs by Christe Iesus but méere contrarie therefore by no meanes to be credited For none that is sent by God will teach any doctrine contrarie to that whiche is reuealed in the scripture For we are not to beléeue him although he be an Angel from heauen For H. N. teacheth not Christ but himself extolling him selfe his doctrine and his wisdome which is a token and marke that he is not led by the spirite of God but is puffed vp with the arrogant pride of his minde in boasting maner whiche Gods children did neuer follow For the holie spirite doeth promise to dwell in the man that hath a lowly and humble heart and not in the proud and arrogant person that boasteth himselfe The spirit of God is neuer boasting but in humilitie méekenesse and patience doth set foorth the glory of God christ And because we may better take a â—â—ll vewe of H. N. and his spirite I will set downe his owne words wherby it may be the better discerned of what spirit he is His wordes are these In the preface to his crying voyce Although our cause for a time bee condemned and dispised yet the iust and vpright vnderstanding ones doe prayse and commende our godlie wisedome In the first exhortation Chapter 16. My children and you Familie of Loue giue â—are to me your father liue according to my doctrine that it may goe wel with you take heede to my doctrine and what I doe set foorth and teach that it may be a seale of life a witnes of truth in our heartes For it is your life Eodem libro capitulo If you humble your selues vnto the schoole of grace wherevnto you are called by me H. N. in the house of life and forsake your ignorant knowledge and good thinking then shall yee liue and inherite the peace In the Prophesie Chapter 4. O Ye Caynish ceremonie ministers and ye persecuters murtherers of the Abellishe vpright heartes ye haue falsely iudged the vpright harts as men worthy to be rooted out of the earth If therefore thou ceasse not from thy wicked workes and from thy iudging of God his matters whiche doubtlesse thou vnderstandest not therefore iudgest falsely if thou repent not all the curses of the Lawe shall be executed against thee In the last time the glorious Lordlinesse of the Lorde God shall in vs become manifested and declared in vs fulfilled Here mayst thou discerne H. N. and his boasting spirite howe he commendeth his godly wisedome then how he extolleth his doctrine saying that his doctrine is their life then he promiseth that his Family shall if they giue eare vnto him and his doctrine liue
mollifie your stonie heartes and renewe a right spirite within euerie one of you that your conuersion may be to Gods glorie and the reioysing of his Churche If it please you to reade these simple instructions which I haue written for your sake hurt thereby you can not haue if any good happen and that the Lord doe hereby open your eyes to beholde your errour giue glorie to the Lord our GOD whose mercie is ouer all his creatures and imagine as trueth is that I haue not so contumeliosly vsed your Authour H. N. as he hath bitterly dealt with vs in iudgeing the Church of Christ and all others that are not of his Family I will vse his owne spéeche In the first exhortation Chapter 7. 1 All such as beleue not the Loue nor are baptised in the name of the Father it is not meete to account suche vnbeleeuers and vnbaptised ones for Christians at whose handes we should looke to finde any word of trueth Capitulo eodem 2 The day of the Lorde and righteous iudgement of God shall burne in wrath and furie ouer all vngoldly which haue despised the Loue and her seruice and shal cōsume them as a fire to euerlasting condemnation in the fire of hell which is prepared for the diuell and his angels Article 10. 3 We confesse that no man shall obteine grace nor forgiuenesse of sinnes at Gods handes without the same commonaltie of holy ones in the Loue. In the sixt Chapter 4 But seeing we can not perceiue or finde the true beleefe of Christe among any people vpon earth that walke without the commonaltie of the loue but the same is manifested vnto the holy ones of GOD in the commonaltie of the Loue nor can bee witnessed by any other people or nation but onely the commonaltie of the holy ones in the Loue. In the prophesie Chap. 18. verse 38. 5 Ye shall through the requiring of the gratious word in the seruice of loue become incorporated to the louely nature of God. 1 Here I haue repeated certeine sentences taken out of H. N. whereby first is shewed that none can haue the truth which beléeue not in the loue y is whiche beléeue not as they do nor are baptised in the name of the father which they take not to be y sacrament of baptisme but a mysterie excéeding my capacity to vtter of incorporating vs into God. 2 Thē such as despise the Loue her seruice shal be consumed with fire euer lasting that is their teaching and seruice 3 No man can obteine grace nor forgiuenes except they ioyne with their commonaltie 4 No people vppon earth can truely beléeue in Christ but their Family and such as walke with them 5 Last of all they shall become incorporated to the nature of God through their seruice of Loue. Here ye may sée the summe of that godly wisdome that is in your Author his déepe diuinitie And surely in my minde it requireth no large discourse to confute the same the spéeche of it selfe doeth sufficiently bewray the minde of their Authour the effect whereof is he and his Family haue onely the trueth and all the world else are deceiued But I may boldly say and more truely that no people in the world that haue any religion but they hearing H. N. and his doctrine will iudge him to be a false Prophet a vain boaster and a deceiuer of suche as put any confidence in him whose doctrine is so absurde senslesse without comfort that none but idiotes or men without true religion will imbrace the same And although many simple people doe imbrace this vaine way by the subtiltie of Christopher Vittel and others yet I haue no doubt but the Lorde in mercie will beholde their simplicitie and giue vnto them a right spirite to discerne trueth from falshod If I were disposed to lay abroade euerie odious matter and euery Tragedie that I haue intelligence of in the Family I should but infert the eares of Gods children with much vile matter which I had rather burie in silence then by naming the persons to make them abhorred of the multitude I think it conuenient therefore to couer their turpitude rather then by manifesting the same to publishe such odious stuffe as would euen defile my pen to write Syr William Moore a woorthy Iustice in Surrey had the examination of one or two of the Familye who vttered much matter which I am loth to write I do gather it vpon this grounde that forsomuch as their Illuminat Elders do not sinne and what so euer they commit it cannot be sinne therfore if they fall into anye acte be it neuer so vngodly it can not be counted sinne as it procéedeth from them because they are Deified And what acte so euer they do it can not be sinne no more then the Prophete Osees whiche was commaunded to take a Harlot to his wife and to beget children in fornication and he did so Uppon such false and vaine persuasions what vile doctrine doeth followe the verie simple may perceiue I doe absteine therefore from further declaring or dylating of any such matter as this is least I should euen infecte the ayre therewith And if any of the Family doe suppose that I write maliciously without proofe let them signifie their minds vnto me and I shall satisfie them priuately of all such matter as I haue intelligence with the processe wholy and particularly And if they denie that Henrie Nicholas doeth boaste himselfe to haue the Spirite of GOD as I haue affirmed and not by participation but Godded with God or incorporated into GOD as he vseth to speake for my discharge I will let H. N. tell how and in what manner he hath it that you the Family and all other may perceiue what he is rightly His wordes be these The first Chapter of the prophesie the 2. diuision The Lord God of heauen moued me in his minde or spirit his power compassed me with a rushing noyse and the glorie of the same God became greate in my spirite of his loue in such wise that the clearenesse of God wholy inuironed me and shined round about me wherethorough the sight of mine eyes became clearer then the christall and mine vnderstanding more brighter then the Sunne He doeth not let to vtter vnto the Familie how mightely and gloriously the God of heauen is in him so that his sight and vnderstanding became clearer then the christall or the sunne whiche if it be true then it is méete that all generations of the earth submit themselues therevnto as he saith in his dialogue And surely this his boasting doeth darken the glorie of Christe Iesus with his Family excéedingly And this is beléeued credited among them the more pity and the simple are deluded and mocked with such vaine boasting spirites and it increaseth daily in the countrey and créepeth as a canker euery where through the smooth speach of their Elders But how close they kéep them selues and will not
vtter their mindes to any other that is not of their companie I can be both an eye witnes and eare witnesse which is a very subtil persuasion of sathan For that man that wil not vtter his griefe or sicknes and where the paine is howe or when caÌ„ he be healed it is an vnpossible cure Euen so in the Family they are so close and so warie in their speach that they will not vtter their griefe to any that can ease them Therfore so long as they continue in that minde they are remedilesse I shall not néede to confute their doctrin by the testimonies of holy scripture which in déede is easie to be done I doe reserue the same to some zealous pastour in Christs schoole which I dout not but as occasion serueth they wil be willing to perfourme It is ynough for me to beginne the skirmishe to display the Familie to make readie the way to discrie their force that others may come after and ouerthrowe their camp and put them to silence for euermore He that will rightly consider the originall of this heresie with the Authours what persons taught it first and when it did increase and growe shall sée that euen when the Gospell began to shine againe being couered with clouds and darkened with dreames of men then began Sathan in Dauid George to enuie the prosperitie of the Gospell Dauid died An. 1556. and then Henrie Nicholas supplyed his turne and followed his steppes not in Dauids name but in his owne name as a Prophet sent of God to rebuke the world and to bring them as he saith to the right wayes But more truely may it be affirmed that they peruert the simple which were entred into the right and plaine wayes of Christe our Lorde and haue brought them from the pure waters which are drawne out of the fountaine which the holy Ghoste by the scriptures doth offer vnto vs and doe giue them dregges and puddle which vngodly men haue digged out of the myre of their owne imagination and do deliuer it as drink sent of God to quench their thirst but they deceiue them most shamefully For to all our senses it doeth appeare to be ranke poyson and doeth slay the soules of euery one that doth vsually drink thereof If these simple admonitions may doe the least of you good giue glorie and prayse vnto the Lorde our God if not I haue discharged my dutie whiche I owe vnto Christe Iesus and his Churche in letting you sée the beginners of your bewitched follie And I shall not let to make my humble prayers vnto the Lorde our GOD euen for his sonne Christe Iesus sake that he will open your eyes and mollifie your stonie heartes that you may beholde the Lorde Iesus which was crucified for you who with his bloud hath cleansed washed your sinnes be they neuer so great that in his goodnesse and mercy he wil take away this erronious spirit wherewith ye are possessed and create in you a right spirite to be obedient to his will and not to the will of mortall men which seduce you and leade you headlong to destruction and that he wil bestowe vpon you his grace to sée rightly into his word without the vaine shadowes of allegories which deceiue you and leaue to vs nothing certaine and that you may â—leaue vnto the Gospel of Christ Iesus and forsake the vain trust you haue in your Deifying and to liue without sinne which I instantly desire our Lorde God to bring to passe for his sonne Christ Iesus sake Amen Certein absurd speeches taken out of the bookes of H. N. as errours of the Familie of Loue. 1 Howe and in what manner the Lorde God hath appeared to H. N. THE Lord God of heauen moued me in his minde or spirit his power compassed me with a rushing noise and the glorie of the same God of heauen became great in my spirite in such wise that the clearenes of God wholy inuironed me and shone round about me where thorough y sight of mine eyes became clearrer then the christall and mine vnderstanding brighter then the sunne When I then perceiued or vnderstoode it so the Lords meaning and will vnto me euen such as his beeing or essence spake vnto me For the being of God gaue forth his sound and voyce and spake vnto me H. N. through the spirit of his loue all these wordes 2. The secrets of our hearts are knowne to H. N. For although ye dissemble with mee and howe craftily so euer ye couer you before me yet are neuerthelesse all the counsels and falshoodes of your hearts manifest before mee and so muche the more naked and bare before the eyes of my heart and spirite For no beloued no ye can not bide couered before me nor before the face of my God. 3 H. N. can no more erre then Christ and his Apostles They doe iudge Moyses the Prophets Christe and his Apostles and his Minister H â–ª N. to erre and misse the right rather then to acknowledge them selues in their imagination to be ignorant and lying 4. The scriptures are fulfilled in H. N. and his Familie To the end nowe in the very last the Scripture and all what God hath spoken by his holy Prophetes and what is written of Christ should in vs and with vs become fulfilled to the honour and glory of God and to our ioy like as it standeth written Luke 1. ca. 24. vers 44. This is assuredly the heartie mercifulnesse of God ouer vs nowe in the last time to the end the glorious Lordlynesse of GOD should in vs become manifested and declared and the Scripture fulfilled 5 No man must mistrust H. N. in doctrine nor any euill to be in him They ought to beware that they distrust not the eldest in the Familie of Loue â–ª nor suspect any maner of euill or vnwisedome by him nor yet also in any wise persuade them selues that the exercises documents and instructions whiche are taught or set foorth before them by the Father of the Familie of Loue or oldest Elder are too slight too childish or too vnwise for them to followe after or to obey but with perfect hearts humbly and singly minded euen as good willing children vnto obedience to receiue the same instructions proceeding out of the wisdome counsel of the Eldest and to stand eueÌ„ so submitted always vnto the manly oldnesse in the loue 6 The maner of shrift vsed in the Familie It is expedient that they make maninifest their whole hearte with all their counselles myndes willes and thoughtes together with all their doinges dealings and exercises naked and bare before the Eldest in the Familie and not to hide any thing bee it what it is and al what their inclination and nature draweth them vnto and al things wherwith they become teÌ„pted in their heatrs If ye chaunce to offende or committe sinne confesse the same before the priestes and Elders and let all appeare nakedly
and apparantly before them 7 That we must liue without sinne The vpright freedome is this that the heart minde and spirite is wholy released purged or purified from all wicked nature which hath reigned ouer him and that there dwell liue nor rule any other thing in him namely in all his spirit thought mind soule but alone the true godheade with his louely being of the vpright loue yea to be so wholy replenished with all the vertues of God and that there flow nothing else in him namely in this spirite and minde but the spirituall heauenly and liuing waters 8 Howe H. N. iudgeth of vs because we acknowledge our selues to be of the Church of Christ. For that cause if thou nowe account not thy selfe for an whore but esteemest thy selfe for the faithfull espoused wife of Christ my ielous conceiuing can not stand otherwise but that thou art a presumptuous whore whiche playest the hypocrite with Christe and couertly committest whoredome thou shalt be constrayned to drinke the bitter cursed water of my ielosie 9 No man be he neuer so learned or godly can vnderstand or interpret the scripture but onely the Elders in the Familie The Scripturely learned man hath no knowledge of Gods matters he can not vnderstande any tittle much lesse expounde or interprete the same to others all Scripture appeare to suche couered secrete in signes and parables nor can comprehend what the same according to the trueth is What such conceiueth or speaketh is false and lyes It is assuredly giuen to the family of Loue to vnderstand the secretes thereof It is assuredly all false lyes seducing and deceitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminate men out of the imagination of their knowledge and out of the learnednes of the scripture bring foorth preach and teach they preach in deede the letter and the immagination of their knoweledge but not the word of the liuing god Let them esteeme themselues as holy as they wil they are a false Christianitie a diuelish synagogue or schole 10 That all men must submit themselues vnto the godlie wisdome in H. N. Seeing nowe that I my father finde out in deede that the Lorde the moste highest hath reuealed his mercie seate y possession of his most excellent Maiestie and heauenly riches in thee and with the same being of the perfect Godhead made a godly dwelling with thee so were it meete and conuenient that al the generations of the earth submitted them selues vnto the same mercie seate and godly Maiestie assembled them thervnto 11 Howe the Elders are Godded with God. It becommeth not that any shoulde take in hand to teach but only the Illuminate Elders in the Familie which also haue receiued the word of life from the liuing God and are euen through the same Godded with God or incorporated to God with whom also God in on◠being and power of his spirite is Hominified or become man. An admonition to Christopher Uittell THe cause that moued me to set foorth this litle piece of work hath not ben as I doubt you will imagine of a malicious minde towardes your Familie the Lord is my witnesse I lament you and malice you not but of a sincere affection I owe vnto all Gods children ▪ who by you are deceiued with the doctrine of H. N. whom I haue manifested and made throughly knowne vnto the world And I would to GOD that you coulde haue contented your selfe with the Authours bookes and not haue published them to our brethren the simple ones in the countrie who are led easily into any newe doctrine which they neuer heard by your subtile persuasion And for as much as I knowe your person and what capacitie is in you I doe verily thinke that the drift of H. N. is not vnknowne to you namely to set vp him selfe as a Prophete to tread downe Christe Iesus our Lord and to destroy the effect of his office These things you sée well ynough in H. N. and yet you cease not still to ertall your Authour and his bookes and miserably seduc◠the simple Doe you thinke to escape the heauie stroke of Gods hande No he commeth and will not be slacke to take vengeance of such as lead the simple and blinde out of the wayes of the Lorde our GOD and make them partakers of doctrines of men possessed with Sathanicall spirites It is necessarie that offences come but woe bee to them by whome they come it were better that a milstone were hanged about his necke and hee cast into the Sea. If this doctrin be not offensiue to Gods children iudge it your selfe Consider that the bloud of those simple ones will be required at your handes which perish by deceite Cursed is he that leadeth the blind out of the way Woe bee vnto him that saith sweete is sower and sower sweete Your erronious spirite is well knowne to Gods Church I heard you at Paules Crosse recant the blasphemies of Arrius doctrine the copie of which is foorth comming and now Sathan hath possessed your minde with infinite moe blasphemies of H. N. Is this no sinne thus to deceiue the simple You are one of those Elders that kéepe all the Commaundements of our GOD and yet are a blasphemer and a sinner in the highest degrée Your deceite is knowen your trecherie is manifest some of your owne Familie can testifie that you are an hypocrite and a dissembler and liue of the spoyle of the poore and haue left your arte and calling to liue méere ydlely by sowing heresies as it were of purpose to the destruction of many simple people Alas haue you a pleasure in their destruction Doth it delight you to leade them headlong to perdition Will not a day come when the Lord our God will charge you with this matter most sharplie Remember in time mortall man that thou shalt answere for euery soule that is peruerted Although they perish thou shalt not escape the Lordes handes The more thou leadest into errour the more grieuous shall be thy destruction and damnation Thinke not that thy counterfet shewe of a holy life can any thing auaile Now thy visard cloake is pulled off I doubt not but the simplest wil espie thy deceit and be no more deceiued with thy pretences to gather their money daily to set foorth the workes of H. N. and inrich thy selfe as wil bee proued If thou feare not the vengeance of God yet let the shame of y world driue thée to confesse thy fault and as thou diddest before recant the errour of Arrius so nowe come foorth out of thy denne and recant the blasphemie of H. N. that the poore and simple may be brought into the wayes of Christe our Lord out of which they haue wandered ouer long Then shal the Church of Christ reioyce ouer your conuersion and Sathan and his ministers shall be put to flight the poore strayinge shéepe shal be brought to the folde of Christe Iesus and you shall be willingly receiued into the
N. nor his doctrine and yet haue turned to the same againe we do not denye but that some haue beene constrained so to doe and that it is no plaine dealing And I pray you tel mee hath the like matter euer beene heard of ere this tune that simple men who can scarcely reade Englishe because they haue read a booke or heard it read should be compelled to yelde an accompt of the spirite of the author that wrote the same I thinke not except you will allowe by like reason that euery simple man that heareth a doctor preache should be compelled to deliuer forth all his diuinitie or els to be committed to straight prison Learned men dispute with the learned it hath euer yet suffised amongst Gods ministers a simple person to yelde an accompt of his beleefe simply c. were not thinke you playner dealing better you say that wee vse the propertie of the Cuttell c. Do you not remember that the fleshly minded Iewes could not see their Sauiour when he was dayly amongst them yet they boasted verie stoutly of their sight and would not in any case confesse their blindnesse Wee stand not vpon our tiptoes as you say but we dayly acknowlege our blindnesse and waite vpon the Lord for our sight Wee say not that you are in errour but wee say that we haue through that sinfull nature of the fleshe that earthly lying being which hath wrought that disobedience in Adam where through we are all fallen beene bewrapped in all ignorance and blindnesse and for that cause are not ashamed to confesse our errour Wee will not go about to conuince you by the testimonies of the holy Scriptures for that lyeth not in our power neither were wee so dealt withall It is the Lorde by his grace that hath conuinced vs and brought vs vnder his crosse ▪ if he also conuince you then are ye rightly conuinced and so the praise thereof appertayneth onely vnto him And whereas you desire to knowe wherein you haue mistaken the author to that we saye that you haue not set downe any whole sentence but patched peeced the same without all order contrarie to your promise For you say you will not adde nor diminish but set downe the authors wordes worde for worde which you haue done euen as one may take the tenne commaundements and leaue out some wordes thereby say that God commaunded such things as for example Thou shalt haue none other Gods but mee Thou shalt not steale Thou shalt not committ adulterie c. Leaue out none not and then what is the commaundement If this be good dealing then you haue dealt well let all men iudge You say moreouer you tooke not vppon you to write against any one booke but to display the absurdities you found in the auctors doctrine which wee shall fynde perfourmed ere it be long by master Knewstub who as we suppose shall displaye him selfe therein euen like as you haue in your booke displayed your selfe and your adherents You say we apply this text My kingdome is not of this world c. verie fondly we take his kingdome not to be outward but inward vz. peace righteousnesse and ioy in the spirit which things the world is ignorant of you may expound it at your pleasure though we expressed our minde therein in plaine dealing mought it please you so to take it You say moreouer you knowe that Christ raigneth in his Church but who are the church is the question In deede master Rogers you say verie well and nowe giue vs leaue to vse plaine dealing with you least otherwise we mought happe to slaunder or belye you In your book one leafe before your admonitiō to Christopher Vittell these be your owne wordes Howe H. N. iudgeth of vs because wee acknowledge our selues to be of the Church of Christ. For that cause if thou nowe accompt not thy selfe for an whoore but esteemest thy selfe for the faithfull espowsed wife of Christ c. And nowe for as much as we vse not neither are so taught in the seruice of loue to iudge rashly or vnaduisedly of any people to their reproche like as you haue done of vs let vs intreat you to read in the booke called The prophesie of the spirite of loue the tenth Chapter sect 12. 13. 14. and in the 11. 12. Chapters throughout and then see with an vnparciall eye what manner of Churche that it is which he doth there reproue you shall finde it in deede to be that fleshly wicked nature that lying being which spareth not with his earthly knowledge to set it selfe to iudgement and to giue sentence of the godly matters which he calleth a false seede an adulterous generation of the earthly man which hath inhabited the earth with vnrighteousnesse iudged it falsely with her lyes seduced the simple oppressed the little ones murdered the holy ones of God and spylt the innocent bloud on the earth He calles it moreouer a bronde of the venomous Dragon yea of the diuell and of the earthly lying generation which is begotten of the seede of the Serpent and viperous generation which hath alwayes beene a false and a wicked whoore vppon the earth c. which church you nowe do challenge to your selues and acknowledge your selues as members of the same euen like as wee in times past haue also done Which thing so soone as the Lorde let vs see into then fell wee down before the Lorde and shamed not to confesse our faultes before him as that wee had ouerlong taken parte with that whoorishe nature of the earthly fleshly and sinfull being whome wee do nowe by Gods grace vtterly abhorre hoping dailye by the might of Christe Iesus our Lorde to see her filthie nakednesse in vs and in manye disclosed abhorred and reiected for euer more You desire to knowe of vs the difference betwixt you and vs Could any man tell it more plainly then you in your wordes haue here manifested the same Consider aduisedly of it so shall you not neede henceforth to demaunde of vs any further resolution in that point but must of necessitie if you doe well fall downe before the Lorde and crye with vs Peccauimus cum patribus nostris iniuste egimus iniquitatem fecimus You charge vs vniustly with the errour of Basilides as though wee were forswearers of our selues whereas yet notwithstanding there hath neuer beene proued any such matter against any of that companie or in any of all that authors workes which may well suffise to stop your mouth if trueth will serue to aunswer you And yet I remember that Tindall a learned man and writer in his booke of Obedience writeth these wordes Breake not vp into the consciences of men after the example of Antichristes disciples which compell them eyther to forsweare themselues by the Almightie God and by the holie Gospell of his mercifull promises or to testifie against them selues which abhomination our prelates learned of Caypha◠Math. 26.