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A17486 Concerning the true beleefe of a Christian man a most excellent and profitable dialogue, by S.C. Herevnto, besides the marginall notes, declaring the chiefe points of doctrines, there is added a godlye and lightsome prayer, which in certain breefe petitions, comprehendeth the very contents of the vvhole vvorke: vvritten in Latine, by Abraham Fleming Londoner borne. To the right Reuerend Father in Christ, Iohn Bishop of London. Translated out of Latine, by Arthur Golding.; De vera Christiani hominis fide. English. Wittewronghelus, Jacobus.; Fleming, Abraham, 1552?-1607. A godly and fruteful prayer.; Golding, Arthur, 1536-1606. 1582 (1582) STC 4301; ESTC S109605 31,186 106

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to him alone And yet by the vvay I vvill let passe that cheefe and intire care of yours vvherewith you bee often touched namelye of preferring the bookes of learned men to light by the reading and considering vvhereof your Fatherhoode knovveth that so many as studie them as becommeth them being stayed vp and inlightned vvith right reason and founde iudgement doe gather most plentifull fruite For these resemble not those vvhich in setting forth Book●s doe play the poysoners vvho into their slubbersauces doe put liquerice or of the choysest suger beaten into poulder that they may vvith the lesse lothsomnesse and misliking be conuayed into the stomacke and afterwarde shead themselues into all the conueiaunces of the body so as the vaynes at length maye swel the bovvels burst and finally the vvhole man be killed Naye they be muche more hurtfull then the poysoners vvhiche destroy but only the frame of the body for they infect the very soule killing it vtterly and throvving it headlong into the tormentes of Hell vvhiche shall neuer die nor cease Contraryvvise the vvorkes of the right beleeuers be they little or be they greate yield such profit to the Readers that they grovv euer better but neuer vvoorse euer skilfuller holyer purer perfecter and acceptabler to God The reason vvhereof hath ledde your Fatherhood so to fauour the vvritten Copie of this little Booke vvhich treateth lightsomly of the true faith of a Christian man that among other Bookes whereof the nūber is infinite vvith the superscription of your own hand you haue authorised the same to be printed that it may go abrode and be common in the hands of all such as desire to haue the triall of their faith The vvhich now comming forth vvith a new outward shew if your reuerend Fatherhoode shall vouchsafe to accept vvith the accustomed fauor of your good countenance and to suffer it to rest vnder the shadow of your defense yelding your self to be as Patrone of it considering that the booke is commended inough of it selfe and the vvriter therof vvas notably learned and hath deserued very vvell of the true Religion vvhich vve novv imbrace or as I may vvell say that it shall be the better vvelcome to all such as loue the Christian faith so am I vvell assured that it shall turne to the great benefite of many and besides that though I be sore hindred vvith the great vvaight almost of daylye businesse you shall stirre me vp to take in hande the Translating thereof into Englishe and to make an ende of it euen oute of hand GOD moste gratious and almightye graunte you abundaunce of his heauenly grace shead vppon you the most sweete Oyle of his hol● spirite daylye increase your Honour and lengthen the time of your life that hauing putte the enimies of the Gospell to flight sette foorth his glory inlarged his Church and happily ended your last day you may liue for euer blessedly placed at the right hand of Christ the vnspotted Lambe and firste begotten of the Father So be it Most addicted to your Honor ABRAHAM FLEMING Londoner borne ¶ The Argument of this Dialogue WHat it is to beleeue in God and what wonders are wrought by the power of beleefe be it worldly or diuine and what thinges doe hinder beleefe Also how a man may hate himselfe and by fayth forsake himselfe and kill the deedes of the fleshe The effect of the talke is this That he which beleeueth in God and in his sonne Iesus Christ is able by the power of that beleefe to mortifie his flesh with the lusts therof through the holy Ghost and to serue God in spirite and truth A most excellent and profitable little Booke concerning the true christian faith ¶ The Persons that talke together are Lewis and Frederike Lewis GLadly in good sooth Friende Frederike haue I hearde your talke both yesterday and to day and therby I haue learned many thinges which I knew not before and this is one thing which hath cheefly mooued me that you haue shewed that our Lorde commaundeth not any thing which is vnpossible to be done For I was of beleefe before that as it is cōmonly hearde and taughte Gods commaundements are vnpossible to be obayed Which perswasion to tell you the truth hath made me slowe to obay so as I neuer strayned my selfe to obay with my whole power Fred. The lyke hath befalne vnto me also and I could neuer yield my selfe truely and earnestly to obaying before I beleeued that it was possible to obay And truelye hereby I haue learned the force of Beleefe which Beleefe maketh a man desirous willing to obaye And desire being afterward matched with power giuen of GOD bringeth to passe that a man doeth the things which he hath beleeued himselfe to be able to doe and so he is saued by obaying as hee was earste vndone by disobeying And so being led by the spirite of Christ he fulfilleth the rightuousnesse of the lawe not walking after the flesh but liuing after the spirite whiche righteousnesse is therefore called the righteousnes of the law not for that it maketh the beleeuer righteous but because the law requireth it For the whole performaunce thereof is Christs because it is brought to passe by his power and spirite liuing and working in those that are his The Law then commaundeth and Christ fulfilleth and so the praise is due not to the commander but to the performer Neuerthelesse it were to smal purpose to beleeue that it is possible to obay God vnlesse a man do also know the way how god may be obayed without the which obedience fayth is dead and without fayth no man canne be saued But this I would haue you to bee perswaded of my Lewis that the discourses both of vs and of al others are to saye no worse of them vnprofitable if they trayne vs not to obedience and to the renewing of the man Lew. These things are true Frederike Therefore that I may fare somewhat the better by your communication I pray you shewe me by what meane I may attayne to obey God For inasmuche as you haue shewed me by your talk that it is possible to be done I haue conceyued a desire of obeying Fred. O my Lewis would God that I my selfe were rightly obedient to the intent I might leade thee as it were by the hande to obedience As now it is vnpossible for me to leade you further then I myselfe haue attayned vnto Lew. Yet notwithstāding I beleeue you haue proceeded further forward then I haue done therfore I beseech you shew me but as farre as you your selfe are gone Fred. Willingly will I do that Lewis but I am afrayde the hardnesse and roughnesse of the way will scare you from it Lew. Feare not I hope I am ready to all things be they neuer so harde so I may attayne to the ende that I desire Fred. I pray God to stablishe this willingnesse of yours and to bring it throughout to
they ought to doo And surely if they perswaded themselues alike in all other vertues they should excell alyke in all other vertues Many other things of the same sorte may be gathered so great is the power of the beleefe that worketh in them Therfore let vs examine our fayth that we may see whether Christes spirite do dwell in vs or no. Christ telleth vs that they bee blessed whiche doo hunger and thyrst after righteousnesse and hee commaundeth vs to hoorde vp treasure in heauen Come on Doo you feele as great thyrst of righteousnesse as euer you haue felte at any tyme of water Or as greate desire of Gods kingdome as the couetous man feeleth desire of money Do you watche day and night to please GOD Haue you euer spent a whole yere or twayne in the studie of godlynes Levv. Nothing lesse Fred. Well what strēgth haue you in suffering of wrongs If a man strike you on the right cheke can you turne to him y e left Can you blesse him that curseth you Can you wish well to him that reuileth you Can you pray for him that rayleth vpon you Can you seeke his welfare which practiseth your death Lew. Soothly I am very farre of from these things Fred. Then do you not beleeue in Christ. For if you did you wold obey his commaundementes Levv. But I neuer referred beleefe to this obedience Fred. What maner of thing then did you take fayth to be Levv. I tooke it to be a trust of Gods freebestowed mercy offred vnto vs in Christ. Fred. To what purpose then deeme you Christes commaundementes to serue Levv. To put vs in mind of our infirmitie in that we be not able to performe the things which we ought to doe and so to make vs hang wholly vpon Christ who hath performed them for vs and imparteth them vnto vs. Fred. Euen the Apostles them selues trusted to Gods freebestowed mercy and yet they obeyed Christes commaundements Nother do I set saluation in our own obedience but in Gods free mercy But this I say that whosoeuer beleeueth Gods free mercy aright obeyeth Christes commaundementes And if a man do beleeue but Gods free mercy onely and not also all his commaundements threatnings promises and sayings whatsoeuer I saye his fayth is maymed vnauaylable For the full and mightie fayth or belief is that wherby the Saints haue subdued kingdomes wroght righteousnes obteined the promises done such other things as any man may wonder to thinke of them For that mā doth not rightly beleeue in God which vpon a rashnesse doth but onely behight himselfe saluation by his free mercy after which maner the Iewes doo beleeue still yet at this day but he which doth so flatly yeelde credite and assent not to some one peece of Gods sayings and dooings but to al of them as you haue reported your selfe to haue beleeued your father when you were a child or as we spake of the couetous and lecherous persons which haue such a fayth or beleef as is not dead and ydle but effectuall and workful counterfetting the spirite of Christ and neuer resting til it haue obteined the thing that it desired Such a one is the true Christian fayth which worketh through loue and whosoeuer hath not such a one doth falsely boast him selfe of fayth Therefore whereas men do commonly chalenge fayth to themselues and yet liue in all kind of wickednes they lye haue not the true fayth but a dead one which is no more worthy of the name of fayth then a dead man is worthy of the name of a man That this is not fayth in deede Christ himselfe sheweth sufficiently when he sayth that at his comming he shall not finde fayth vppon the earth And also when vnto these whiche saye Lorde Lorde haue we not caste out diuels in thy name Haue we not wroughte wonders in thy name and haste thou not taught in our streetes He shall say I know you not get you hence yee workers of wickednes Ye see he will admit none for faythfull but onely the weldoers and the obeyers For they be the only persons which haue the true fayth of whō it is written thus These are they whiche haue mainteyned Gods commaundementes and the faith of Iesus Nowe if you haue not the fayth which maye make you righteous that is to say chaste lowly gentle liberall and indued with such other of the vertues see how farre you be of from beeing able to worke the miracles which Christ hath tolde vs should be the signes of fayth I require not here bodily myracles whiche were appoynted to the first trayning of the Church vnto fayth But the thing that I require is that he which beleeueth in Chr●st should breede the same vertues in other men which God hath bred in him that is to wit that of drunkards he should make them sober of lecherous chast of yreful meeld and at a word of vnrighteous righteous For to caste out diuels is to cast out the vices of lecherie couetousnes wrathfulnes and such other Also to speake with new tongs is to speake with fyrie and burning speach such as no man can withstande of which sorte theirs is whiche speake the things not which they haue hard but which they haue seene with their eyes heard with their eares and felt with their hands that is to saye which they haue printed throughly in their harts which they do as verily beleeue as you do verily beleeue that it is nowe day or that anone it shal be night With suche toungs they be able truely and effectually to comforte the afflicted to harten the weak-minded to releeue them that are in despayre to strengthen the feeble to counsell the fearefull and to performe suche other things which I make farre greater account of then of the working of outward miracles and of such as belong but only to the body If a man haue not these things himself ne can conuey them into others I see not by what right he cā claime faith vnlesse it be the fayth which the diuels haue who do beleeue that there is a God do quake at him But I speake of the true and iustifying fayth which maketh a man partaker of y e nature of God and causeth all things to be possible to him I haue shewed afore howe great force beleefe hath in matters of this worlde and the same is to be seene euen in Religion be it false or true The Turkes beleeue that wine is not to bee drunke and therfore they can forbeare wine The Iewes beleeue that a man ought to absteine from the things which the Law forbiddeth and therefore they absteine There are to be found which doo pyne them selues to death with long ouerfasting some whippe them selues I say not greeuouslye but euen cruelly till the bloud followe other some for Religions sake doo take vppon them long pilgrimages wherein they indure beggerie and many other inconueniences
and perils What shall I saye of those whiche haue gelded them selues What shall I say of the Circumcellions who as the report goeth of them to thintent to become Martyrs themselues and to make otherfolkes Martyrs with them fordid themselues by sundry sorts of death as drowning burning and leaping from high places and perswaded other men to doe the like all which things they dyd throughly beleeue For vnlesse they had beleeued y t those things were to be done they would not haue done them To bee shorte whatsoeuer thing men beleeue is to be done they can indeuer to do it Now if their beleefe beeing false and not onely not grounded vppon Gods commaundement but also cleane contrary therevnto haue notwithstanding suche strength I pray you what is not that fayth or beleefe able to doe which is both commaunded and also procured and strengthned by him shall Gods spirite haue lesse power in man then the spirite of Satan Shall lighte be of lesse force then darknesse Ye see what force Paules fayth had Unto this howre sayth he we be hungry and thyrstie naked and buffeted we be tossed and turmoyled we labour and worke with oure owne handes Beeing rayled at we wishe well beeing vexed we suffer it beeing reuyled we take comfort at it If they be ministers of Christ much more am I In labour I exceede them In taking strypes I go beyond them In being imprisoned I passe them In death I haue often bin Of the Iewes I haue fyue times receyued fortye strypes saue one Thrice haue I bin whipped Once haue I bin stoned Thrice haue I suffered shipwracke Day night haue I spent in the depe seas Often haue I iourneyed Often haue I bin in daunger of Riuers of Robbers of mine owne Countreimen of straung●rs in the Citie in the wildernes on the sea and among false br●thren Often haue I bin tyred with trauelling and with watching often haue I feinted for hunger and thyrst in fasting often haue I bin a colde for want of clothes And besides all the other things which dayly distresse me verily the care of all Churches lyeth vppon me Who is weakned and I am not the wors at ●ase for it who is offended and I am not gr●eued at it This is the almightie strength of fayth Lewis wherewith he being armed was inabled to do al things by him which strengt●ned him And if we haue y e same strēgth then surely th●r● is cause for vs to thinke ou●s●lues to haue y e same faith if not then let vs not beare our selues in hande y t we haue the thing which we wāt least it befall vnto vs at it doth to y t man which dreameth y t he hath found a treasure and when he awaketh he hath not a halfepeny Levv. O my Frederike my imagination that I abounded in faith is but a dreame but now beeing wakened by your wordes I see playnly that I am quite cleane without it as the rest of y e world is For as for this effectuall power of fayth I nother finde it in myselfe nor perceyue it in the world Fred. That you bee faithlesse Lewis it is to be lamented but that being so you see yourself to be so y t is not only not to be lamēted but also to be reioyced at like as a sicknesse is it selfe to be misliked but the knowledge of the sicknesse is to be well lyked Levv. By what meane then or by what medicine maye this my disease of vnbeleefe be cured Fred. By taking away the impedimentes of vnbeleefe Lew. Which are those Fred. You haue heard them of me already in my former talkes Howbeit forasmuch as you haue scantly conceiued them as things that your eares haue not herd of for our maner is not to be ouerhastie in bearing words or things away which we haue not heard of afore I will tell you them more playnly Giue good heede What thinke you to be the cause why no man in matters of iustice is admitted too bee a witnesse in his owne cace Levv. Because all men do loue them selues and therfore wil euer speake for themselues or at leastwise neuer agaynst themselues Fred. You saye rightly And if they be not willing to speake against themselues nother are they willing to hear any thing against themselues For the truth that is against them misliketh them lesse out of another mans mouth then out of their owne Levv. It doth so Fred. And if they be vnwilling to heare those things truely they be not willing to beleeue them For no man will willingly beleue y e things which he is loth to heare of but all men do easily beleeue the things which they lyke of As for example If a man should say that y e goods of Christians ought to be common among them whether sorte would eazlyest beleeue it the riche or the poore Levv. The poore Fred. Why so Levv. Because that by y t match they should not lose but rather winne Fred. What woulde the riche folke do Lew. Hardly or not at all rather would they beleue it bicause they shuld therby become the poorer which thing they mislike of Fred. What if a man should deny that mens soules are deliuered oute of Purgatory by Masses whether would y e Cleargie or the Laytie soonest beleeue it Lew. Not the Cleargy because that that opinion would be a diminishing of their reuenewes Fred. What if it should be sayd that Usury were vnlawfull for Christians were it possible to make those beleeue it which lyue vppon Usury and become riche by it Levv. Scarsly Fred. What if one should teach that men ought not to be put to death ●or religion whether would they soonest beleeue it which are in credite with the Magistrates are diuines themselues yet are p●r●e●u●er● of other mē or atleastwise willing to persecute them or the contrary sort Levv. Th● contrary sort For I know some diuines who as long as they wanted that authoritie and were troubled for religions sake taught that men ought not to be molested for religion And yet the selfe same persons hauing gotten wealthe and authoritie haue bo●h taughte and done the contra●ie F●ed You see then how fayth is hindered by s●lfloue so as men do not easily beleeue the things that are contrary to their lyking Levv. I see it playnly Fred. Let vs cōsider then whether the same cause be not an impediment to our beleefe in Christ. In the doctrine of Christ are histories promises and commaundementes As for the histories and promises almost all men beleeue them because that in them no dutie on mans behalfe is required Nother is there any controuersie among Christians whither Christ haue done the things whiche are reported of him in the holy Scriptures or whether he haue promised the things that are conteined there But what is the cause that so fewe beleeue his commaundementes Levv. Do f●wer folke beleeue his commaundementes then do beleeue his doings