well versed in Scripture have so much honesty as not to conceale from the world that true sense of Scripture which seemeth to themselves cleare and evident after the combination and examination of all controverted texts But to be briefe and decline all comparisons which are odious let us suppose for the present which Protestants ought to take as a courtesie that learned Protestants and learned Catholicks are equally honest and equally learned both honest and both learned if the contrary be not made appeare by the ensuing demonstration 5 It is impossible for men equally learned and equally honest to have any controversie about the sense of any words of Scripture if the sense be cleare and evident But Protestants and Catholicks who are supposed to be equally learned and equally honest have controversies about the sense of such words of Scripture as concerne Transubstantiation worship of Images and other controverted points Therefore its impossible that the sense of such words of Scripture as relate to Transubstantiation c. should be cleare and manifestly against the Doctrine of Catholicks Therefore the testimony of all Protestant Churches maintaining the clearnesse against them is not onely incredible but manifestly false Because the testimony of Catholicks though in their owne defence is made evidently true by the controversie it selfe a visible and undeniable effect that can proceede from no other cause amongst learned and honest men but from the obscurity of the words and sense wherein their judgements differ If they squable about what is cleare both parties or at least one is ignorant or not honest We Catholicks have no reason to thinke that all our Doctors want knowledge and sincerity its cleare to all Christenâ—ome that in our Church we have in all parts of the world â—oth learned and honest men and if Protestants thinke â—he same of themselves they must grant that our controâ—ersies do manifestly demonstrate the obscurity of Scripture 6 Seeing Scripture is obscure and in no place cleare against Transubstantiation worship of Images Purgatory c. what ground or warrant had the first Protestants for their pretended Reformation would not all the world have reason to laugh at us Catholicks if we should part with that ancient sense of Scripture in favour of Transubstantiation Purgatory c. which we received from the Church that went before us assuring it was revealed by God upon the bare word of Luther Calvin Knox or the â—2 persons that made the Ritual and pretended to reforme in Edward the VI. time the Sacraments both in matter forme and number What signes or miracles did they shew for their extraordinary Mission and Apostleship of reforming the Doctrine of the Catholick Church If any man who received his Land by inheritance from his Ancestors ought not to part with it if not forced by better evidence then his owne how can we part with our Faith and sense of Scripture which is the ground of all our supernaturall inheritance and happinesse untill Protestants shew a better title then the inheritance or continuall succession of our Doctrines from the Apostles They must produce better evidence then their pretended clearnesse of Scripture If they laugh at Quakers notwithstanding all the texts of Scripture which they have at their fingers ends against Protestant Doctrine how do they imagine did Catholicks looke upon the first pretended Reformers One advantage these new Quakers have against all Protestants which Protestants have not against Catholicks and it is that a new Quaker may say with truth to an old or new Protestant he hath as prudent ground and as good evidence for his owne interpretation of Scripture and Religion as the Protestant hath for his their fancies the onely ground of both their Faith being much alike and their Mission being not warranted by any precedent Church This the Protestants can not object against Catholicks because we had alwayes the word and warrant of a precedent visible Church for our interpretation of Scriptures and Religion CHAP. IX VVhether any Puritanicall Congregation be the Catholick Church by reason of their pretended spirit 1 THere not a trades-man or simple woman amongst the purer sort of Protestants who do not imagine themselves to be more infallible in interpreting Scripture then the Pope and all the generall Councells together This infallibility they attribute to the Spirit of God which they all pretend to have But this fond imagination is as easily refuted as the clearnesse of Scripture hath beene in the former Chap. because every pure Protestant or Puritan pretends to have the Spirit of God but that Spirit contradicting it selfe according the diversity of Tenets which the purely inspired hold it is impossible it should be the Spirit of God who can not inspire contradictions Yet they are so obstinate that its impossible to perswade them to the contrary though you may clearly convince them The Pope must be Antichrist Catholick Kings the horns of the Beast religious Orders rags of Rome wherewith the VVhore of Babylon adornes her selfe The Puritans must onely be the Elect the Saints and pure Zealots of the beauteous discipline of Sion which to carry on though whole Nations be extirpated their holy Spirit doth not onely rid them from any remorse of conscience but assures them no worke can be more meritorious If you inquire of them how they know whether this spirit of theirs be good or bad of God or the Divel Calvin their Patriarch and Master answers that they do discerne it as clearly as they do white from black sweet from sower and light from darknesse his proofe is the experience and testimony of every one of the faithfull Brethren concerning the purenesse of his owne spirit 2 This Calvinisticall and private spirit being so hidden and undiscernable can not be a sufficient and prudent ground at least for any man that hath it not to believe it is the Spirit of Truth and of the Catholick Church Men who are not in the true Church must be led into it by some credit and exteriour signes And though Faith be a gift of God yet it is communicated by preaching and hearing Rom. 10. We do not deny that God must helpe all Catholicks interiourly with his supernaturall grace and spirit but the difference between the Puritan and Catholick spirit is that the Puritan spirit inspireth a beliefe contrary to reason the Catholick spirit inspires a beliefe non contrary but agreable to reason Though Christian Faith be above reason it is not unreasonable But it can not be agreable to reason that any person believe a Puritanicall spirit without any more proofe of the goodnesse of it then a Puritans word against a sense of Scripture which hath beene continued in the Roman Churches since the primitive times as is evident by tradition testimony of Fathers and acknowledged by the Magdeburg Centuries and other Protestant Writers Therefore the private spirit can not be a sufficient proposall of the true Faith or a credible and convincing signe of the true Church
by examining the truth of the mysteries we believe that is to be supposed and not disputed To be a good Controvertist is not to give reason of what you believe but to give reason why you believe what you understand not this last requires no Greek or Hebrew nor Schoole learning and therefore may be as well performed by a Catholick Clowne is by a Bachelour of Oxford or Cambridge 10 Now to descend to particular methods hereby the learned Protestants may be convinced by illiterate Catholicks I will onely mention two both of them very ordinary and usuall amongst the most vulgar sort of people The first is by asking of Protestants What newes of Religion The second by inquiring of them by what right or warrant do they condemne any article of the Roman Catholick Faith I do seriously averre that every Countrey-man who hath wit and judgement enough to except at the Assises against an illegall and false witnesse hath leaming enough to convince in controversies of Religion the most learned Protestant Minister And every carrier or husbandman who hath so much wit and judgement as not to believe an extravagant and incredible history or ballads of some strange feigned Monster hath wit and judgement enough to convince any Protestant whosoever The reason of this Assertion is very cleare because there was never so incredible a Monster or Chymera composed of so many contradictions and impossibilities as this new fangled Religion framed by the fancies of a company of dissolute Priests and Friars pretending to have beene enlightened by the Spirit of God and sent by an extraordinary calling without miracles to reforme not onely the manners but also the Doctrine of the Catholick Church What Countrey Clowne amongst Catholicks can be persuaded to believe that all this which the first Protestants pretend is true Is it not obvious to every rationall creature that God never made use of so wicked instruments to reforme the world and plant the true Religion What evidence do Reformers produce against the Doctrine of the Roman Church what witnesses what signes to confirme their testimonies Do Protestants agree amongst themselves All this will be more clearly understood by the ensuing Conference betweene a Catholick Clowne and a learned Protestant Minister SECT II. A Dialog betweene a learned Protestant Minister and a Catholick Clowne 11 CAth. What newes good Master Doctor of your English Protestant Church Minist As much persecuted as ever Bapists were by Queen Elizabeth There is liberty given to all Sectaries Anabaptists Quakers c. we onely are excepted against Cath. I see no reason why ye Protestants should not be reformed by Puritans and Quakers as ye reformed us Catholicks I am sure they bring as many texts of Scripture against your Doctrine and Discipline as ye did against ours Minist We reformed onely your Papisticall abuses that were contrary to the cleare Word of God Cath. The same thing do Puritans or Presbyterians say against you But it s incredible newes to me that which you tell me of any abuses we should have in our Church contrary to the expresse Word of God Minist Didst thou ever read the Scripture Cath. No truly Minist I knew so much the reason why ye are not permitted to read the Bible is that ye may not discover the errours which Jesuits and other Masse Priests teach ye as the respect to Images and Statues praying to Saints Purgatory c. These and many more are clearly contradicted by Scripture Cath. Though I were permitted to read Scripture I can not because I never learned to read Yet I have spoken with many learned men who read Scripture and they all unanimously assure me that there is not one word in all Scripture contradicting worship of Images praying to Saints or Purgatory Now I see no reason why I should reject their testimony and take yours 12 Minist Faith is a gift of God thou must not tye it to any mans sleeve pray to God that he may give thee his Spirit Cath. I have heard much of a Spirit that every one of ye Protestants and Puritans pretend to have but I could never see any effect or signe of it Minist We Protestants pretend no such Spirit Cath. How come ye then to alter the old sense of Scripture which was in England for a thousand yeares before Edward the VI. if no Spirit did inspire or interpret the Scripture after the reformed fashion why did ye not stick to the old way Minist Because we could not in consciences there being so many cleare texts against Popery Cath. That is incredible for in the space of a thousand yeares some man or other would meet with those cleare texts Minist Well thou art an honest fellow we will not dispute thou art not capable of understanding what I have to answer to that objection of thine Cath. Nay good Master Doctor trust my understanding for once I pray resolve my doubt Min. Truly I must deale clearly with thee I am of opinion that for the space of one thousand yeares past all Roman Catholicks did hold damnable Doctrine manifestly contrary to Scripture yet I believe their ignorance did excuse them from damnation 13 Caeh How is it possible that there should be so much ignorance in all the world for the space of a thousand yeares that none could see those cleare texts of Scripture which you and other Protestants pretend to see Min. Mistake me not Countreyman the texts of Scripture which we produce against your errours and superfluities are not so very cleare but that they may be misunderstood if God doth not enlighten the understanding as he hath done to us Protestants Cath. I thought you pretended no such Spirit or private inspiration I heare reported by credible Authors that the first Protestants or Reformers in every Countrey were dissolute Piests or Friars who married and lived not so exemplarly as the Catholick Clergy doth Therefore I can not persuade my selfe that God would enlighten them more then us at least I am not bound to believe it unlesse I see miracles or some other markes of sanctity which is more then ever I perceived as yet in any of your Religion I hope you will pardon my freedome Min. I warrant thou dost believe all the miracles that are reported to have beene done at Loreto Sichem and other Chappell 's Didst thou ever see any miracle thy selfe Cath. No indeed but I have seene others who were present at the working of strange miracles as that of Naples when the Jefuit Mastrilli was cured on a sudden by Saint Francis Xaverius and sent by him to lapon where he dyed a Martyr Many others I have heard testified by credible Authors that I have as much reason to believe as any who should endeavour to persuade me the contrary therefore trouble not your selfe in this matter unlesse you will have me doubt of all things I heare because I have been deceived in something Min. Why believe not ye our miracles as ye would have us believe
her securitie then was it time to make him Antichrist and to pursue his party with fire and sword The title of the ensuing Kings not being questioned by the Pope made him an object of lesse hate and his adherents subject to lesse crueltie and the Religion was fashioned to the humor of the Prince yet with some regard to popular faction Lastly the liberty of warre giving licence to those infinite Sects which lay lurking in every corner of the English Church to sally forth and to appeare to the world in their different colours every one tooke notice how few were grounded on those Tenets whereon the Church of England is built and how by leaving the true proposall of Gods Word and the ancient rule of Divine Faith men come to be so unsetled in all points of Faith that their Religion is as changeable as private fancies and publike factions And that all may see how the curse of Cain the first father of Hereticks as being the first opposer of Gods true Worship is fallen by inheritance upon our English Protestants their last change is to turne into Quakers whose Sect is nothing else but Protestancy fallen into a Paulscy and inclining to a suddaine Apoâ—lexy THE INDEX OF THE CHAPTERS CHAP. I. How Protestancy begunne and came into England CHAP. II. Of the nullitie of the English Protestant Clergy CHAP. III. Of Heresie CHAP. IV. In what doth the obstinacy of Heresie consist CHAP. V. Of the Catholick Church CHAP. VI. VVhether all Christians be thâ— Catholick Church or whether it may bâ— composed of any two or more Congregation of them if agreeing not in all matters whatse ever which any one Congregation or Church pretends to be revealed by God CHAP. VII VVhether the testimony of tâ—â— Catholick Church be infallible not onely 〈◊〉 Protestants terme them in fundamentall bâ— also in not fundamentall articles of Faith CHAP. VIII VVhether any reformed 〈◊〉 Protestant Church of the world be the Catholiâ—â— and Apostolick Church And whether thâ— pretended clearnesse of Scripture doth sufâ—â—ciently propose their doctrine as Divine reveâ—â—tion CHAP. IX VVhether any Puritanicall Congregation be the Catholick Church by reason of their pretended spirit CHAP. X. VVhether that Congregation of persons which live in communion with and subjection to the Roman Church be the Catholick and true Church of God CHAP. XI VVhether Transubstantiation and the lawfulnesse of the worship of Images be sufficiently proposed by the testimony of the Roman Catholick Church as Divine revelation and whether Protestants have any lawfull exceptions against them CHAP. XII VVhether Protestancy be Heresie CHAP. XIII VVhether any Protestants may be saved CHAP. XIV VVhether Protestancy be manifestly against reason and common sense and how may the most learned Protestants be convinced in disputes of Religion by every illiterate Roman Catholick SECT II. A Dialog between a learned Protestant Minister and a Catholick Cloune CHAP. XV. Of the difference between Christian Faith and the historicall beliefe of Protestants A TREATISE OF THE NATURE OF CATHOLICK FAITH AND HERESIE WITH Reflexion upon the Nullitie of the English Protestant Church and Clergy CHAP. I. How Protestancy begunne and came into England IN the yeare 1516. there was no other Religion in our parts of the world acknowledged Catholick and Apostolick but that which Protestants are now pleased to call Popery In the yeare 1517. Leo the X. Bishop of Rome following the â—cample of other Popes granted and published Indulgenâ—â—s to all such as voluntarily contributed towards the war â—gainst the Turke who at that time was growne formiâ—able and threatned all Christendome having added Syria â—â—d Egipt to the Otteman Empire 2 The Archbishop of Mentz to whom the Pope comâ—itted the businesse of Indulgences in Germany appointed one Iohn Tetzel a Dominican Friar to preach in the publishing of them notwithstanding that for a long time before this office had beene given to the Augustin Friars The preferment of Tetzel was ill taken by Martin Luther who being an Augustin Friar and a famous Preacher expected himselfe should have beene the man named to preach and publish the Indulgences but seeing his hopes frustrated he resolved to write as much against Indulgences and the Pope as he had prepared to preach in favour of both 3 Therefore taking occasion of some abuses which are unavoydable in things that passe through many hands he printed certaine Conclusions and Libells against Indulgences These were condemned and burnt as hereticall by Iohn Tetzel Luthers Competitor who at the same time exercised the office of Inquisitor in Germany This fire did so warme Luther and added such flames to his hot disposition that most parts of Europe felt the smart of it For being once engaged and enraged by Tetzels Declaration against him he would not recant his first error but added others by denying Purgatory the Popes authoritie merit necessitie of good workes c. 4 Amongst others who writ against Luthers novelties one was Henry the VIII King of England composing a learned Booke in defence of the seaven Sacraments the Popes supremacy and his spirituall jurisdiction over all Christendome this Booke moved the Pope to adde to Henry the VIII titles that of Defender of the Faith which had beene the most glorious of all his titles if he had not so violently opposed afterwards the Popes primacy which he then so piously maintained against Luther But being weary of his wife Queene Catharine despairing to have issue male by her and enamoured of Anne Builen because the Pope refused to declare his marriage with Queene Catharine invalid he made himselfe Pope of England challenging all spirituall jurisdiction within his owne Kingdomes and by Act of Parliament made it treason to acknow ledge any spirituall jurisdiction of the Pope in his Dominions himselfe being proclaimed spirituall Head of the English Church This was the occasion and beginning of the pretended Reformation Henry the VIII notwithstanding did stick to the old Religion in all points the Popes primacy onely excepted because he thought no other of the new Religion was necessary to marry Anne Bullen and to enrich himselfe by the spoile of Monasteries He persecuted all other novelties and herefies in such a degree that though many crept into England in his reigne yet very few durst professe them because as many as did were burnt by his command 5 To King Henry the VIII Sect. 2 succeeded his sonne Edward the VI. a child of 9. years old his unkle the Earle of Hartford was made Protector both of the King and Kingdome he was inclined to Zuinglius his heresie Twenty dayes had scarse passed after his Protectorship but his fingars did so eagerly itch to be doing and tampering about innovation in Religion Horinshed Stow and others an 1547. as upon the sixth of March next following he sent away Commissioners into all parts of the Realme to pull doâ—â—ne Images and other Ecclesiasticall ornaments He also invited out of Germany divers Sectaries of what Religion soever but especially
Clergy If not they are guilty of the losse of their owne soules for venturing so rashly being forewarned to â—ommit so many and so great sacrileges against God and his holy Sacraments 22 But as to the impossibility of forging so many Registers in case there be so many it is easily answered â—hat it is no more then that the Consecrator and other persons concerned should have conspired to give in a falâ—e Certificat that the Consecration was performed with all due ceremonies and rites and thereby deceive the Courts or make them dissemble and this is a thing moâ—e possible and probable then that all the Protestant Clergy should have conspired not to produce the said Registers when they were so hardly prest by their adversaâ—ies Or that so many Catholicks should have beene so â—oolish to invent and maintaine the story of the Nagsâ—ead in such time when if it had beene false they might â—ave beene convinced by thousand witnesses Or that so many grave and learned Divines who for conscience sake â—eft all should without feare of damnation ingage themselves and posterity in damnable sacaileges by occasioning so many sacrilegious reordinations upon their charâ— ging Protestants with no Ordination no moderate anâ— prudent man can suspect that such persons should damnâ— their soules out of meere spight against the Church oâ— England If we Catholicks did reordaine the Protestant Ministers upon title of their heresie and not of theiâ— knowne invalidity we should also reordaine the Greciaâ— Priests which is notoriously against our practise and Tenets in so much that we hold our selves obliged to examine with all diligence whether there be any probability of the person having received valid orders and finding but any probable appearance thereof the practise is and hath beene for diverse ages to give orders not absolutely but conditionally whereas it is notorious that all our English Ministers who after their conversion have beene made Priests received their Orders in absolute termes without any condition adjoyned in the same manner which wâ— use in ordaining meere laymen 23 Let us go one step further with our Protestant Clergy and suppose that their first Bishops were ordained by Catholicks we reserve yet another nullitie in store foâ— their consecration And to wave many doubts that mighâ— be moved concerning the matter of their Ordination wâ— will onely speake of the forme or words prescribed in the Protestant Rituall It is a knowne principle common to both Protestants and Catholicks that in the forme of Ordination there must be some word expressing the authority and power given to the person ordained the intention of the Ordainer expressed by generall words indisserent and appliable to all or divers degrees of holy Orders is not sufficient to make one a Priest or a Bishopâ— As for example Receive the holy Ghost these words being indifferent to Priesthood and Episcopacy and used iâ— both Ordinations are not sufficiently expressive of eitheâ— in particular unlesse Protestants will now at length professe themselves Presbyterians making no distinction betweene Priests and Bishops but they are as farre from that as we Catholicks In the words or forme wherebâ— Protestants ordaine Bishops there is not one word expressing Episcopall power and authority The forme 〈◊〉 this Take the holy Ghost and remember that thou stirre 〈◊〉 the grace of God which is in thee by impositions of hands foâ— God hath not given us the spirit of feare but of power and loâ—e and sobernesse The grace of God is given by imposiâ—on of hands in all holy Orders as also the spirit of â—ower love and sobernesse There is not one word in â—his forme expressing the difference and power of Episcoâ—acy Let Protestants search all Catholick Rituals not â—nely of the West but of the East they will not finde â—ny one forme of consecrating Bishops that hath not the â—ord Bishop in it or some others expressing the particuar authority and power of a Bishop distinct from all oâ—her degrees of holy Orders See Ioannes Morinus in his â—earned Commentaries De sacris Ecclesiae Ordinibus printed â—t Paris an 1655 who sets downe the ancient formes both â—n Greeke and Latin as well of Priesthood as of Episcoâ—acy 24 The forme or words whereby men are made Priests must expresse authority and power to consecrate or make present Christs Body and Bloud whether with or without Transubstantiation is not our present Conâ—roversy with Protestants but onely whether their forme hath words expressing authority and power to make Christs Body truly present See the forme of Priesthood used by the English Clergy set downe by me in the first Chap. num 10. and you will not finde one word expressing this power and authority Receive the holy Ghost doth not involve it because it s used in the consecration of Bishops who would be recordained Priests when they receive Episcopall Order if the said words include power â—o consecrate Christs Body To dispense or minister the Sacraments come farre short of the power and authority of consecrating the elements or making present Christs Body Deacons did minister and dispense the Body of Christ to the people in ancient times but were never â—houht to have power and authority of consecrating The power of remitting sinnes doth not include power to consecrate or make present the Body and Bloud of Christ for every layman hath power to remit sinnes by baptizing and no layman hath power to consecrate or make present Christs Body Therefore words giving power to remit sinnes doth not include power to consecrate all Sacraments ordained for remission of sinnes as some Protestants endeavour to make the ignorant believe In all formes of ordaining Priests that ever were used in the Easterne or Westerne Church is expresly set downe the word Priest or some other words expressing the particular and proper function and authority of Priesthood If any States or Countrey should say We choose such a person to be King in the word King is sufficiently expressed all Kingly power and authority Therefore the Grecians using the word Priest or Bishop in their formes do sufficiently expresse the respective power of every Order 25 The true reason why the English forme of making Priests and Bishops is so notoriously deficient and invalid is because it was made in King Edward the VI. his time when Zuinglianisme and Puritans did prevaile in the English Church the reall presence was not believed by them of the Clergy who bore sway therefore they did not put in the forme of Priesthood any word expressing authority and power to make Christs Body present They held Episcopacy and Priesthood to be one and the same thing therefore in the forme of making Bishops they put not one word epressing Episcopall function onely some generall termes that might seeme sufficient to give them authority to enjoy the temporalities and Bishopricks This is also the true reason why Parker and his Collegues were content with the Nags-head consecration and why others recurred to extraordinary vocation in Queene Elizabeths time
age That is to say in every Century or age there were honest men and lawfull witnesses who testified that Henry the IV Ancestors descended from Saint Lewis though one onely age could remember or see Saint Lewis yet the next ensuing did see the first and heard their testimony the third did see the second c. In every age did live men whose testimony might be relyed upon It must be granted therefore by all that the knowledge which is grounded upon a continuall and never interrupted tradition is sufficient for lawfull witnesses 6 That the Roman Catholick Church hath a continuall and never interrupted tradition of its Faith and sense of Scripture being taught by Christ and the Apostles can not be denyed by our adversaries it being evident to the world that they who contradicted any article of this Faith we now professe in former ages were looked upon and condemned as Hereticks which is an infallible argument that we in every age received our Doctrine from the former not as the word of men but as the Word of God or as Divine Revelation for if it were not believed as Divine Revelation why should we condemne men as Hereticks because they denyed it Neither do Protestants deny that we believed our tradition and the testimony of our Church to be grounded upon Divine Revelation they onely say we were mistaken and that both our tradition and testimony of the Roman Church was fallible But then we urge that they acknowledge both were infallible in delivering to them the Scripture and testifying that it was the Word of God therefore in delivering and testifying all the rest seeing the same testimony delivering many things together must be of equall authority in all and equally believed by them who accept of it as a lawfull proofe All our pretended Reformers had no other ground in the yeare 1517. to believe Scripture as Divine Revelation but the testimony of the Roman Church Therefore they ought to believe all the rest or not to believe Scripture 7 I said it concernes also our adversaries to grant that their reformed Churches have no lawfull witnesses in matters of Faith because there can not be that sufficient knowledge which is required in a lawfull witnesse of Faith without tradition whereby it may appeare that the Faith and sense of Scripture of this age doth agree with that of the primitive Church If once our adversaries acknowledge lawfull witnesses of things past long since without a constant and never interrupted tradition every man whose spirit of ambition moves him may pretend to be true heire of any hereditary crowne or estate and without further proofe then his owne word and spirit or some obscure text of Scripture will exclude Kings and others whose rights are grounded upon tradition But if tradition be so necessary to preserve and make credible the testimony of men in matters of estates and rights in the Common-wealth it can not be superfluous to make credible the testimony of men concerning matters of Faith 8 It remaines now we prove that the testimony of the Roman Catholick Church hath beene confirmed with supernaturall signes or miracles But seeing there are in the Roman Church lawfull witnesses who prove that the Faith which they now professe is the same with that of the primitive Church miracles also are proved by the same witnesses it being granted by Protestants themselves that miracles were wrought in the primitive Church to confirme the Faith which Christ and his Apostles taught Yet in the Roman Catholick Church there are now lawfull witnesses and have beene in every age since Christs preaching that there have beene miracles done in confirmation of the Roman Faith This is evident to all who read the Ecclesiasticall Histories of present and past times Neither can our adversaries deny that we have lawfull witnesses for miracles now wrought in our Church even in confirmation of that Doctrine wherein we differ from them and reported by so credible testimonies See the 13. Chap. that it were imprudence in any person whosoever to deny them which is enough to propose sufficiently our Doctrine as Divine Revelation But Protestants do not believe our miracles because they imagine that they are against Scriptures that is against their owne interpretation of it and that some miracles have beene false and forged We do not say that all things which the common people thinke to be miracles are really true miracles but we affirme that true miracles there are in our Church and very frequent confirming that very Doctrine which Protestants reject the forgery or knavery of some particular wicked men in feigning miracles can not prejudice all especially such as are seene and experimented by persons of knowne integrity and learning able to discerne betweene true and false miracles otherwise it will follow that all the new Testament must be called in question or denyed to be Gods Word because Saint Thomas his pretended Ghospell or Nicodemus his writings are condemned as forged or Apocryphall That no reformed Church of Protestants can have lawfull witnesses to propose sufficiently their Doctrine as Divine Revelation is evident because for the space of 1500. yeares they were without any visible Church or tradition therefore their witnesses also are invisible and by consequence not lawfull or credible Fox and others made a certaine Catalogue of men who opposed the Doctrine of the Roman Church in former ages but they were known Hereticks and did neither agree amongst themselves nor with Protestants in their Tenets or Religion as hath beene demonstrated by Father Persons in his Examination of Fox his Kalendar and by many others 9 I conclude therefore that seeing Protestants grant there is and hath alwayes beene a Catholick Church upon earth and that Church must have lawfull witnesses testifying their Doctrine to be Divine Revelation it being evident that no Congregation of men can produce any such lawfull witnesses but the Roman Catholicks amongst whom I include also them of the Greeke Church who agree with us it s also evident that there can be no Church Catholick but the Roman CHAP. XI VVhether Transubstantiation and the lawfulnesse of the worship of Images be sufficiently proposed by the testimony of the Roman Catholick Church as Divine revelation and whether Protestants have any lawfull exceptions against them 1 THere are so many Bookes printed in defence of these Catholick Tenets that I judge it superfluous to treate of them ex professo I will onely answer some exceptions that Protestants have made against them to my selfe in diverse occasions That the Roman Church doth propose these articles sufficiently as Divine Revelation is cleare because it proposeth them by the same testimony and confirmed by the sames signes whereby it proposeth Scripture to be Gods Word this last proposall Protestants themselves grant to be so sufficient that no man may in prudence deny it Therefore the same must be said of all the rest and in particular of Transubstantiation and worship of Images 2 But let us
3 Another proofe that no private spirits interpretation of Scripture can be the true one being contrary to the publick testimony of the Church which went before it and Puritans pretend to reforme may be borrowed from Saint Peter who giveth to understand Pet. 1.20 that no private interpretation can be the true sense of Scripture The reason is cleare because there is none if not confirmed in grace who may not be an obstinate Heretick against the true sense of Scripture in controverted texts but no man can be obstinate against his owne private interpretation and the sense of his private spirit Therefore he can not be an Heretick if the private interpretation of Scripture against the publick testimony of the precedent or present Church which he impugneth be the true meaning and sense of Gods Word 4 Perhaps Puritans will grant that its impossible for any of them to be an Heretick seeing their spirit is infallible If this be granted it s also impossible for any other to be an Heretick or obstinate against their spirit or interpretation because he who is obstinate may be convinced and it s not possible to convince any man but by cleare reason or at least by lawfull witnesses Cleare reason Puritans can not pretend for their spirit because it s against reason to believe it Lawfull witnesses for it there can be none or no more then one which is not enough nor allowed as lawfull in a mans owne case Though every Puritan giveth not onely a testimony of his owne but also of his Brethrens spirit yet he is no lawfull witnesse for any other mans spirit because he hath no better evidence or ground for the testimony he gives then the other mans owne word in commendation of his owne spirit he neither seeth the spirit of the other nor any signe whereby it may be made credible onely he may witnesse that the man whose spirit it is sayeth it is of God but one mans word in his owne case is no sufficient evidence for a lawfull testimony Therefore there are no lawfull witnesses for the private spirit and consequently none can be obstinate against us because none can be convinced that it is of God Whence it followeth that the spirit can be no sufficient proposall of Gods Word or sense and therefore no inspired Congregation of Protestants can be the Catholick Church CHAP. X. VVhether that Congregation of persons which live in communion with and subjection to the Roman Church be the Catholick and true Church of God 1 THis question seemeth to have beene resolved by what is said in former Chapters Because iâ— there be a Catholick Church Vide summam Concâ—liorum A.F. longo in Conâ—il â—â—orâ—n 〈◊〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 and that is noâ— all Congregations of Christians taken together nor any Protestant Church in particular the dispute can onely be now between the Greek Church and the Roman but the Grecians having so many times altered their Faith so many of their ancient Patriarchs being condemned Hereticks and all their Church being legally convicted of Schisme and Heresie in three generall Councells of Florence Lions and the Lateran they can not pretend to be the true Church which never erred I do not speake of that part of the Greeke Church which communicates with us Roman Catholicks because that is part of the Roman But suppose the Roman Church were not the Catholick I see not what advantage Protestants may have by pleading for the Grecians seeing these agree not with them but are altogether against the pretended Reformation and condemne it as Heresie as appeares by the answer of the Patriarch of Constantinople to the Protestants of Germany mentioned by Bellarmine lib. 3. de Euchar cap. 21. in fine 2 To prove therefore that the Roman Church is the true Catholick it must be made appeare that it proposeth sufficiently its Doctrine of Faith as Divine Revelation this sufficient proposall can not be done by cleare and evident reason because the mysteries of Christian Religion are above humane capacity Therefore it must be done according to what hath beene said in the 4. Chap. by authority and the testimony of lawfull witnesses But lawfull witnesses in matters of Faith are onely they whose testimony hath beene confirmed by miracles as hath beene demonstrated in the 2. Chap. Therefore we must prove also miracles if we intend to prove that the Roman Church is the whole Catholick and that it proposeth sufficiently its Doctrine as Divine Revelation Now to the proofe of the assertion 3 That Doctrine is sufficiently proposed as Divine Revelation which is delivered to us as such by the testimony of lawfull witnesses confirmed by miracles But the Doctrine of the Church of Rome is delivered to us as Divine Revelation by the testimony of lawfull witnesses and their testimony is confirmed by miracles Therefore it s sufficiently proposed as Divine Revelation and by consequence the Church of Rome is the true Catholick 4 If the Minor or second proposition be proved my intent is concluded That the Roman Church hath lawfull witnesses of its Doctrine to be Divine Revelation hath this difficulty A lawfull witnesse requires not onely knowledge of what he testifieth but also honesty both qualities are necessary an honest foole being as little to be credited as a knowing knave But how can the Roman Church now extant in the 17. age of Christianity have lawfull witnesses of the Doctrine and sense of Scripture which Christ and the Apostles taught the world so long since Though honesty can not be denyed to many Roman Catholicks yet the knowledge what the Apostles taught which is required for a lawfull witnesse of the true Church can not be granted to any seeing none is now living on earth that conversed with the Apostles This argument doth equally impugne all Churches yet none can answer it but we Roman Catholicks 5 It concernes all the world even our very adversaries to grant that the Roman Catholicks have lawfull witnesses with sufficient knowledge of what Religion and sense of Scripture was taught by the Apostles in the primitive Church nay which is more that no other Church pretending to Reformation can have sufficient knowledge required for lawfull witnesses of the true Religion sense of Scripture and Doctrine of the primitive Church If the Roman Church hath not sufficient knowledge for lawfull witnesses of Christ and the Apostles Doctrine no hereditary King or Prince can have a title or right to his crowne because the right descended to them by inheritance doth depend upon a lawfull testimony averring that they are the true heires of such a man who reigned perhaps three or four hundred yeares ago Henry the IV. of France proved himselfe by lawfull witnesses to be the heire of Saint Lewis But who couldbe a lawfull witnesse that Henry the Great descended of Saint Lewis All France did give a lawfull testimony of it because it was a constant tradition in the whole Kingdome descended from Saint Lewis his time to this present