Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	earth_n	heaven_n	holy_a	7,009	5	4.7805	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A81734	The Quakers folly made manifest to all men: or a true relation of what passed in three disputations at Sandwich, April, 12, 13, 19, 1659. between three Quakers, and a minister, viz. Mr. Samuel Fisher, George Whithead, Richard Hubberthorn, and Thomas Danson wherein many popish tenents were by them maintained, and by him refuted. Occasioned by an imperfect and (in many things) false relation of the said disputations, published by R. Hubberthorn, one of the three Quakers, which said relation is also censur'd and amended. Together with a brief narrative of some remarkable passages. / By Tho. Danson, late fellow of Magd. Coll. Oxon, and now minister of the Gospel at Sandwich in Kent.	Danson, Thomas, d. 1694.	1659 (1659)	Wing D215; Thomason E2255_3; ESTC R34492	40,882	71

the same import Job 1.1 that man mean●ng Job was perfect and upright that perfect is not meant in your sense appears by c. 9.20 If I say I am pe●fect 〈◊〉 his mouth shall also prove me perverse Sinceri●y Job all along avouched but perfection such as he m●ght j●stifie h●mself by he denies But to return to the place Phi● 3.12 He denies that he was yet perfect whilst in a breath he affirms himself so The perfection he denies is the resurrection of the dead v. 11. that is by an usual Metonymy of the subject for the adj●nct that measure of holinesse which accompanies tha● state wh●ch we shall find to be exclusive of sin 1 John 2.2 We shall be lik● him meaning Christ when he appears But how shall Christ appear Heb. 9. ult appear the second time without sin Put it together and the perfection Paul denies is the state of the resurrection which is to be without sin The perfection he ●ffirms is comparative in respect of Christians of lower attainments who could not assent to all the Doctrines of the Gospel v. 15. If in any thing ye i. e. some of you be otherwise minded M. Fisher I will prove from the Scripture such a state of perfection Psal 119. Blessed ●re the undefiled in the way v. 1. They also do no iniquity v. 2. Do you mark every word T. Danson Yes Sir we mark the words but I might expect a reply to what I have urged against the Scriptures brought by your friend As for the phrases they are hyperbolical v. 6. Then I shall not be ashamed when I have respect to all thy Commandm●n●s in respect of design and endeavour though falling short in accomplishment that v. explains the other two you brought I shall add that David excludes himself out of a blessed state if undefiled and doing no iniquity be meant strictly His wish vers 5. and other passages ●n the Psalms shew that he was not free from sinne which su●e David did not intend for Psal 32 2. he pronounces the man blessed which hath no guilt in his spirit or sincere which himself was at that time though under th● guilt of a great sinne vers 5. which is by interpreters supposed to be the same sins for which Psal 51. was composed But Mr. Fisher can you produce one single example of a perfect Saint in your sense Mr. Fisher Yes Thomas Dans●n that I can 'T is in Luke 1.6 And they Zachary and Elizabeth were bo●h righteous before God not before man only but bef●re God walk●ng in all the Commandments nor in s●me few o● many but all and O●dinances of the Lord blameless T. Danson Methinks Sir you bring in this Scripture with pomp and ceremony yet it will not do For first how doth it appear that righteous before God is meant a perfect inherent righteousnesse seeing a believers person with his works are accepted with God though his works be not perfect Heb. 11.4 By Faith Abel offered to God a more excellent Sacrifice than Cain by which he obtained witness that he was righteous c. And secondly how do you prove blamelesse to be meant otherwise than comparatively Phil. 2.15 Blameless without rebuke in the midst of a crooked and perverse Nation among whom ye shine as lights in the world In the same sense may Luke understand the phrase And if you mark the very same phrase is used of Pauls external conformity to the Law when he was so far from perfect that he had no Grace at all Phil. 3.6 Touching the righteousnesse which is in the Law blamelesse v. 5. Touching the Law a Pharisce Now how they were blamelesse you find by instance Luke 18.10 11. Not as other men are I fast twice in the week c. I bring this instance to let you know that the phrase simply considered will be so far from importing perfection of Grace that it will not import any Grace But in a word to put it out of doubt Zacharias of whom these words are used whence you gather him to be free from sin is found guilty at the very time that this description agreed to him of unbelief and was with dumbnesse punished for it Luke 1.10 Behold thou shalt be dumb and not able to speak until the day that these things be performed because thou believest not my words c. 'T is the message of Gabriel the Angel to Za●harias v. 19. You see Mr. Fisher your pomp in the bringing in of this Scripture was meer wast Mr. Fisher But Tho. Danson there is no such thing m●ntioned of Elizab●th and if there be one instance it sufficeth T. Danson But Sir your Argument is drawn from the import of the phrases and if the phrases are applicable to him though guilty of actual sin then they will not argue her to be more free from sin than him though there be no mention of any of her sins Pray Sir seeing you have nothing to reply but God has stopped your mouth let me hear what answer you can give to that Scripture which hath run much in my mind against this Doctrine Eccles 7.20 There is not a just man upon earth that doth good and sinneth not R. Hubberthorn It cannot be meant as thou wouldst have it for the man Christ then were not a just man which I think thou wilt not say T. Danson I desir'd Mr. Fishers answer and not yours But seeing he is silenced I will answer you What a wretch are you to make such an Inference was not Christ God as well as man And could a nature tainted with sin be taken into a personal union with the Divine Nature The place I urge excludes any meer man from perfection in this life Mr. Fisher I will give thee an answer Tho. Danson We grant the truth in that Scripture the just man there spoken of is not on earth for he is redeemed from the earth and in the Revelation he is said to be a dweller in Heaven whereas the wrath of God is said to come upon the Inhabitants of the earth T. Danson Mr. Fisher you run very low at last this is a meer evasion I verily believe in your own judgment and intention because you think you must say somwhat Can you possibly think that the j●st mans being in Heaven in respect of his disposition and affection and in his Head Christ excludes his local abode on earth We say indeed that no such just man as Solomon speaks of is to be found on earth but in Heaven which is a place of abode as well as a state of blisse R. Hubberthorn In Heb. 12.23 Spirits of just men made perfect this is spoken of them to whom the Apostle writes T. Danson The pl●ce doth not import the perfection of any men on earth but sp●aking of the state we are advanced to under the Gospel by Christ he saies we are one body with them in Heaven and have the same title with them in possession R. Hu●berthorn Thus with thy meanings thou

pervertest Scripture T. Danson I leave it to the judgement of judicious hearers whether I have perverted Scripture or no and so pray do you The third Qu●stion debated on was though with much ado at length stated in these terms Whether our good works are the meritorious cause of our justification And Mr. Fisher held it in the Affirmative Mr. Fisher Thus I prove that our good works are the meritorious cause of our justification by a rule that you own Contraria contrariorum ratio whence I argue thus If our evil works are the meritorious cause of our condemnation then out good works are the meritorious cause of our non-condemnation or justification But our evil works are the meritorious cause of our condemnation therefore our good works are the meritorious cause of our non-condemnation or just●fication T. Danson Now you shew your self a rank Papist indeed We deny your consequence because our evil works are perfectly evil but our good works are but imperfectly good and any one evil is a violation of the Law and deserves the penalty of the Law but any one or more good work is not the fulfillin● of the Law Let me add that there is no consequence in that Popish Argument notwithstand●ng that Canon because our good and evil works are not absolute contraries the one being perfectly evil the other but imperfectly good Mulum oritur ex quolibet defectu Bonum fi●●ex integris causis which latter appears by Isa 64.6 All our righteousnesses not our unrighteousnesses only are as filthy rags And again thus the rule will allow to argue Evil works which are the violation of the Law deserve damnation Ergo good works which are the fulfilling of the Law deserve salvation And we know no good works such but Christ's And once more in respect of the subject the Rule will not hold being one who owes all his good works to God and is a finite creature now those works which merit must not be due and they must be of infinite value or else there is no proportion between them and the reward And thus we might argue à contrariis If his evil works from whom only good works are due as from a finite creature to an infinite Creator do truly deserve damnation then his good works who owes none and is an infinite person do truly deserve non-condemnation But verum prius ergo et posterius And to understand this we must know that the desert of disobedience arises chiefly from the dignity of the Object against which sin is committed when as the desert of obedience arises from the dignity of the subject by which it is performed Mr. Fisher I will prove my consequence from Gal. 5.18 But if ye be led of the Spirit ye are not under the Law Whence I argue If they who are led by the Spirit are not under the Law then the leading of the Spirit is the meritorious cause of their not being under the Law but they who are led by the Spirit are not under the Law Ergo. T. Danson Sir you are very silly your self or take your hearers to be so that you think this to be a proof of your former consequence or that there is any consequence in this Argument You should have proved that there is par ratio for the merit of good and of evil works And surely Sir the leading of the Spirit or Sanctification is a fruit and effect not a meritorious cause of not being under the Law that is obliged to its penalty Mr. Fisher I will prove by another Scripture that leading by the Spirit is the meritorious cause of our Justification 1 Cor. 6.11 And such were some of you but ye are washed but ye are sanctified but ye are justified in the Name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God Observe here the Co inthians are said to be justified by the Spirit T. Danson I might say that perhaps the clause should be referred to Sanctification which is in a more appropriate manner attributed to the Spirits efficiency as if the order of the words had been but ye are sanctified by the Spirit of our God and such transpositions are not without instance in the Scripture as Mat. 7.6 Give not that which is holy to dogs neither cast ye your Pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rent you where turn again and rent you is to be joyned to the dogs for as swine do trample under their feet so dogs do fly upon a man and tear him down Or else justified by the Spirit may be meant of the Spirits application I mean the third Person in the Trinity not of the work of Grace whereof we are the Subject Mr. Fisher In the 8th of the Rom. v. 2. The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of sin and death Now 't is the same Law of the Spirit of life that is in Christ and the Saints T. Danson That place is much against you For the Apostle asserts the Holinesse of mans Nature as a work of the Spirit conforming it to the Law to be the merito●ious cause of ou● freedom from sin and death but mark withal 't is not that which is in us but in Christ And though 't is true that the same spirit is in Christ and the Saints yet neither does the spirit in us conform us fully to the Law notwithstanding your vain assertion of perfection nor if it did were that conformity the merit of J●stification Let me add that the Law of the Spirit of life here spoken of is not only the meritorious cause of our freedom from death but from the Law of sin or obeying of sin as a Law now I would fain know what precedent holinesse in the Saints merits subsequent holinesse or whether the exercise of what they have is the meritorious cause of what they have not or of perfection especially if the law of sin intends the corruption of nature as the Law of the Spirit of life does holiness of nature I would be instructed how a nature in part corrupted can deserve total freedom and I am sure the first work of the Spirit renews our natures but in part Mr. Fisher Pray read on Rom. 8.4 That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit This place saies the righteousnesse of the Law is fulfilled in the persons of the Saints T. Danson Sure Sir you never read v. 3. which tells us that the Law was weak through the flesh that is unable to justifie us in regard of our inability through corruption to fulfill it which were untrue if we are able to fulfill it and what follows God sent his own Son to give us what we could not attain to by our own obedience to the Law and as for the 4th v. it imports the end for which God sent Christ that the righteousnesse of the Law might

Scripture is not our Rule if there was a rule before the Scripture was written then that is not our rule but there was a rule before the Scripture Therefore T. D. Your Argument concludes nothing against us for we assert the matter contained in the Scripture is a standing Rule your argument proves but that there was a rule before this writing we grant that God reveal'd himself by visions dreams c. yet it was the same matter Since the Gospel preached to Adam there have not been any increase of truths quoad essentiam sed tantum quoad explicationem as the Learned speak of the Articles of our Faith The manner of conveyance is different then and now but the matter or doctrines conveyed still the same All this while you go about to delude the simple as if you denied only this way of writing to have always been the onely way of conveyance and you magnifie the Spirit that with more security you may throw down the Letter of the Scripture And if you would speak out plainly as some of your friends as you call them do that which you call the Spirit would be found to be the dictates of your own Conscience blind and corrupt as they are the Lord knows and you are no further bound to obey the Letter of the Scripture than you are willing to obey it Mr. F. I am sure your Scripture is not the Word of God for that is within but your Scripture is without This I prove out of R●m 10.8 The Word is nigh thee even in thy heart T. D. You read not all 't is in thy mouth too so that 't is without as well as within Mr. F. This is meant of the Light which is in eve●y mans Conscience 'T is a word which every man ha●h heard v. 18. But I say have they not heard yes verily their sound went into all the earth T. D. It seems then the Light within is the Spirit you pleaded for to be the Rule in opposition to the Scriptures But 't is plain enough that v. 18. speaks of the Gospel for it relates to the Preacher spoken of v. 14 15. who were Prophets and Apostles And though the words are taken out of Psal 19.4 yet they intend not that n●tu●al knowledge of God which David speaks of but the Apostle would intimate that the knowl●dge of Christ by th● Gospel should be of as large extent in the publication as the knowledge of God by the Ministry of the heavens and Firmament which are Davids Preachers Psal 19.1 And 't is evident that the word spoken of in the heart Rom. 10.8 is meant of the matters contained in the Scriptures for the Apostle saies ●xpresly That is the word of Faith which we preach and Acts 26.22 VVe say none other things than those which Moses and the Prophets did say should come which sayings are contained in the Old Testament And as for your odd notion of the Words being within not without I say but this that it remains without when it is within as the matter in a Book does to instruct others when the Reader hath throughly digested it in his memory and unde●standing And that as to the Saints somewhat of the word is alwaies without when some is within that is the Word prevails but in part over their corruption and so far as it does prevail it is within so far as it prevails not it is without Mr. F. In Col. 3.16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly that which is the word of Christ dwells within whereas that which ye call the VVord is without T. D. The VVord spoken of was without or it was the Letter of the Scripture and his exhortation was to get acquaintance therewith and he prescribes means to that end in teaching and admonishing one another and singing Psalms which were part of the Word of Christ as the subject matter and author of them Mr. F. Now thou talkest of sing●ng Psalms it is a fond custom you get to make the people sing Davids conditions who have not his spirit as to make a proud man sing O Lord I am not puff'd in mind T. D. Though it be besides our businesse yet I shall answer to your cavils against our practice in a word Your objection holds as strongly against the use of them in the times of the Old Testament as against our use of them for the matter of them was no more all the singers conditions then than now and yet they were part of publique Temple-worship 2 Chron. 29.25 30. and the matter of many of them is doctrinal and prophetical and such as cannot be sung with particular application and I know no particular application necessary to singing that 131 Psal more than to reading of it nor is it more a lye to sing than to read them Mr F. VVhereas thou sayest Thomas Danson that the teaching and singing was a means of the words dwelling in them therein thou art out as in many other things for the word of Christ dwelt richly in them and thence they teached admonished and sung T. D. The words are an exhortation to get the word of Christ dwell richly in them or to grow in the knowledge of Christ as elsewhere 't is expressed and there is none that hath so much of the knowledge of the word but it may admit of encrease and therefore though they might teach and admonish from a stock of the word that hinders not but that the use of it in those duties might be the means of adding to it In the next place Richard Hubberthorn undertook to prove his Call in a discourse wh●ch you have in his own Book to which I referre you the main thing he insisted on was his Infallibility in teaching and the falsehood of our Ministry who are not Infallible T. D. You are much mistaken in thinking you are infallible it appears otherwise to us by the false doctrines which you teach and as for your participation of the infallible Spirit if that were granted which we cannot grant that infers not a participation of the spirits infallibility for that is as incommunicable as omnisciency or omnipotency R. Hu●berthorn The Apostles had a power of working miracles in them T. D. That i● d●nyed God himself was the sole subject of that power by which they were wrought and their faith was the means or sign of exerting it Acts 3.16 His Name through faith in his Name hath made this man strong c. Matth. 21.21 If ye have faith and doubt not c. ye shall say to this mountain be removed and it shall be done Mr. Fisher The man Christ Jesus whom ye call God-man was omniscient Joh. 2.24 Jesus did not commit himself to them because he knew all men c. T. D. Pray sir Do not you call the man Christ Jesus God-man too Your silence is not consent but dissent Omnisciency agreed not to Christ as man for he says elsewhere the son of man knows not when the day

salvation to some who accept not of it out of particular fancy to them but exact of others that acceptance and for default of it deny them salvation then there might be some ground for the cavil but now that 't is offered upon equal terms there is none And for Christ being given for salvation to the ends of the earth that imports not so much as that the offer much lesse the benefit should be of su●h extent in all ages and generations as I shewed before but the fulfilling of that prophecy bears date from the Apostolical Commission Mat. 28.19 and it intends that no Nation how remote soever from Judea should want the offer nor some of it the benefit of salvation That a Minister of the Gospel doth not know who are elected And to this R. H. says there he hath belied the Ministers of the Gospel for they could discern the elect from the world as 't is written Ye shall discern between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not and these Teachers who know not the elect and yet exhort all their hearers to believe their preaching is in vain Reply I see you are hard put to it for a Scripture to bring that Mal. 3. ult I could have fitted you with one that would have been more specious 1 Thes 1.4 Knowing Brethren beloved your Election of God As for Mal. 3. ult 't is not strictly true till the day of judgement Solomon says No man knows love or hatred by all that is before him I should rather think our preaching is to more purpose because we know not who are elect for the ignorance of that gives us a ground to hope well of any man and indeed it were to no purpose to preach to those who are not elected unlesse that of leaving them inexcusable did we certainly know who are elect and so who are not for the latter would have no ground of hope which now they have in the indefinite promise made of none effect through their unbelief did we let them know they were excluded out of Gods purpose of salvation That the sword of the Spirit is ineffectual without the Letter To which R. H. says the sword of the Spirit is the Word of God which was effectual before the Letter was Reply This man is so used to speak non-sense himself that he can understand it as well or better than good sense I did not say as he relates but that the Spirit was not wont to be ●ff ctual without the Letter or that he wrought upon the souls of men in and by the Letter of the Word and I gave that instance Rom. 10.17 Faith which is the Spirits work comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God As for what he sayes that the sword of the Spirit is the Word of God if he means like a man in his oppositions he must mean Christ who but once is called the Word of God Rev. 19.13 And Christ cannot be intended Eph. 6.17 because he is not the sword of the Spirit but the Spirit his sword rather for by the Spirit he works in the hearts of men and therefore Gen. 6.3 he sayes My Spirit shall not alwayes strive with man which is meant of the holy Ghost as will appear by comparing it with Act. 7 51. where Stephen tells the Jews Ye do alwayes resist the holy Ghost Christ by the common operations of his Spirit strives with men and by the special operations thereof prevails with them That there was no Scripture written but what is extant and in the Bible Against which assertion R. H. produces the book of Nathan Iddo c. mentioned in the Bible which he sayes were written for the same end and use Reply It does not appear that any of the Books mentioned in the Old Testament and to which we are referr'd for further satisfaction in historical matters were of Divine Inspiration but we may rather conclude that the Holy Ghost mentioning no more of History than was necessary for our Instruction refers us for the rest which was not of the like necessity to books of humane original And though they are the Books of Prophets yet it follows not that they were divinely inspir'd For they might as well write from their own spirits or upon humane credit as sometimes speak from their own spirits 2 Sam. 7.3 Nathan told David when he spake of building a Temple Go do all that is in thine heart for the Lord is with thee whenas God for bad him by the same Prophet which prohibition is call'd the word of the Lo d that came to Nathan v. 4.5 plainly enough intimating that the incouragement he gave David before was but the word of man And indeed 2 Pet. 2. last speaking of the motion of the Holy Ghost to write the Scriptures seems to limit it to that which was intended for a sure word of prophecy wherunto we should do well to take heed c. v. 19. That there was no Scripture appointed of God to be a Rule of Faith and manners but what is bound up in the Bible Reply That was my assertion and besides what I spake I shall adde that 't is not enough if it could be proved that other writings besides those we have were of Divine Inspiration For besides such Inspiration to make a Rule is necessary Gods appointment of a writing to that end Hence 't is observable that John is bidden to write what he saw and heard in the Book of Revelation no lesse than twelve times and some things of the like inspiration he was forbidden to write because not intended for the same end Rev. 10.4 And when the seven thunders had uttered th●ir voices I was about to write and I heard a voice from Heaven saying unto me seal up c. and write them not John 20.30.31 A●d many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his Discipl●s which are not wri●ten in ●his book but these are written that ye might bel●eve c. Those things which were not written might have b●en us●ful if they had been wr●tten for th●y were done for the same end with tho●e which are left u● yet because God thought that suffi●ient which we have we can look upon no more wi●h such regard as we do upon that That the letter doth antecede the Spirit in all that walked in the Spirit Reply I opened my own meaning as you may find in the dispute about the Scriptures and 't is this that the Spirits act of r●veal●ng the letter of the Scriptures antecedes the Spirits assistance in walking according to it That the works of Christ in some respect are not perfect To which R. H. saies that is false for every gift of God is perfect Reply I spake those words with reference to the work of sanc●ification which I affirmed to be imp●rfect in this life in comparison of what it is in the life to come For which I produced Phil. 3.12 Not as though I had already attained either were