they may because the generalitie of their duty is to be assistant but here lies the question whether one member can performe the office of another which is perticularly appropriated to him and none other or as you had it before can the eye performe the office of the hand or the hand of the eye for as you say though in respect of congregated bodies the more part are out of office yet as we are one body in Christ members one of another first all members may be generally assistant to the service of the whole but can every member performe that which is specially affirmed of and attributed to one if you grant it then factum est it is done Anabaptisme and Anarchie and all we shall have come tumbling into the Church for tell me are not you he that said a little before from the Apostle that the chiefest members cannot say to the least I have no need of thee now if every member can performe that which is specially affirmed of another then how can you justifie your speech from the Apostle who saith the one hath need of the other and if the one have need of the other it followes that hee wants that in another which hee cannot performe himselfe if one have no need of another then he cannot onely doe that which properly is this but that also which is specially attributed to another and so you have falsified the Apostle and beaten your selfe with your owne weapon To the next t is true that in the worke of Reformation it is necessary that all errours should be discovered and all truths imbraced but you have very slenderly proved that your universall practice is a truth and if you bring no better reason then you have here in your booke published to the world I am not afraid to tell you that in stead of being truth it is a most notorious untruth and such a one that you going about to prove true you have both exposed your selfe to abundance of censure from godly Divines but also shewed the ignorance in resting upon such broken Reeds that will never hold in the tryall and besides are there not abundance of faithfull Ministers of Jesus Christ that notwithstanding they have had their admission into their publike offices from the Prelates yet doe preach Christ in his puritie and doe not you here shew your pride that dare take acception of their allowance by the Prelates for (u) Sâ—y a man have been trained up in the Schols of learning and have never so great gifts and fitnesse to exercise a publike office in the Church yet he may not take upon him to Minister till he first be approved 1. Tim. 3.10 that would open a gap to dangerous Schismes in the Church good therefore it is to hearken to the advice of the Apostle Rom. 12.3 Hildersham on Joh. pag. 248. they would not preach the Word publikely nor take upon them any publike function in the Church unlesse they were externally allowed thereunto and although there be imperfections in the same yet Sir the substance of it is conteined in their ordination being onely this that Ministers should be examined and proved for their abilitie to be apt to teach 1 Tim. 3.2 and by sound doctrine to exhort and convince the gainesayers now can every man that pretends the spirit be able to convince nay are they able to speake a word to a learned adversary and is it sit now that such should have any publike office in the Church In the 1 King 12.31 it is noted by the holy Ghost as a fault in Jeroboam that hee made Priests of the (x) You know they meane the basest of the people such as gave but one leap out of the Shop into the Church as suddenly are changed from a Serving mans Coat into a Ministers Cloak making for the most part the Ministery their last Refuge Cart. 1. rep to Whitgift pag. 26. lowest of the people which was a great prophanation to the Ministry and that he tooke them not out of the Tribe of Levi which were men fitted and qualified for the Ministery and if this were a fault in Jeroboam because he chused such as he should not chuse why shall it not be a fault and a great presumption in you to take that function upon you without a call by the Church and I am afraid that in stead of expecting a glorious Reformation we may rather expect a hinderance of the same occasioned by your practise use your gifts you may in a private way and it were to be wished that you did not so tumultuously draw such a number of people after you the reason is because it doth open the mouths of the adversaries of a thorough Reformation which if it were otherwise might lesse offend good Christians and upon the right performing of the same might have good warrant from the Word of God FINIS
the Lord would if hee so pleased poure upon these people who before did murmure a spirit of government Paraphrased that so they might know how to carry themselves towards their God and his servant Moses their governour and these 70. Elders whom hee had extraordinarily and specially designed for that purpose To that other objection of Saul in 1 Sam. 10.6 and you have it 1 Sam. 6.10 but it is no great matter wee will passe that by because the whole booke almost is full fraught with ill applications and misconstructions to the place of Samuel then I answer that the meaning of Sauls prophesying is as was sayd before to sound forth Gods praises by the instinct of that Spirit he now had with those Prophets in the fifth verse Or changed his spirit the whole story is this Foure things Samuel had prophesied concerning Saul after his annointing and departing from him and that when these things came to passe Saul might be assured of Gods calling of him to be King the signes were these 1. That when he was departed he should sinde two men by Rachels Sepulchre vers 3. 2. That after that hee should meets three men going to Bethel to the house of God vers 3. 3. After that he should meete a company of Prophets with Harpe Tabret Pipes c. 4. When he came thus farre and saw these Prophers then the Spirit of the Lord should come upon him and he should prophesie with them Now when all these came upon 〈◊〉 he might be assured in the accomplishment of these prophesies that God had called him to be the ruler of the people and that he should doe them is nocasion served for the hand verse 7. of thâ— Lord was with hime so that it seemes undeninbly that Sauls prophesying amongst these Prophets was such prophesying as theirs was for so the words with them doe clearely intimate the spirit it selfe was poured upon him for the consirmation of his calling and the effect of that Spirit filling of him with strength and valour and also to sound out Gods praises and besides the holy Ghost hath thought sit to expresse the manner thereof the Spirit of the Lord came upon him now God gives his spirit either visibly or else invisibly the one is extraordinary the other ordinary Now the holy Glibst came upon Saub in a visible manner not by any locall appearance (n) The holy Ghost comes visibly not by any locall motion but by the signes he workes onely the signes is taken for the thing it selfe Vrsin Cau but by those signes which were produced to the eyes senses of the by standers his operations not by any locall or visible sight of himselfe but by those effects which he wrought The holy Ghost is given invisibly when hee bestowes his gifts not so much with infallible outward externall restimonies as by an inward operation on the faculties of the soule in measures and so is given to wicked men and the elect to wicked men at the best speculatively regenerating them to the elect both speculatively and practically The spirit then was given to Saul in an extraordinary manner visibly by those effects he did produce The gifts of the Holy Ghost as Mirâ—cles and Tongues Prophesies were given in the Apostles times in an extraordinary manner ibid. so that it appeares that his example serves your turne not one whit for if the holy Ghost came upon Saul in an extraordinary manner and that this his prophesying consisted in praysing God with Tabret Pipe as the Prophets did in the sift verse and hee with them then what can this prove to your purpose as the holy Ghost was given to the Apostles in the primitive Church extraordinarily immediatly because of those effects they did produce why not upon Saul who had this spirit given him immediatly as appeares by the effects they wrought in him as making him another man and by his prophesying all which were confirmations extraordinary to confirme his calling of being King which was extraordinary also the like we see in David 1 Sam. 16.13 who had the Spirit poured upon him in the same manner as it was on Saul and all to fit him for those weightie duties of his kingly office and although David had not such visible conspiouous signes at his annointing as Saul had yet wee reade in 1 Sam. 16.18 that he was strong valiant a man of warre in so much that it is said 1 Sam. 18.14 15. that Saul was afraid of him all which things being laid together will evince this truth to wit that these were extraordinary Spirits in their manner of being given to certaine persons again if Saul were a Preacher as this allegation seemes to insinuate then a question would be asked to vvhom did he preach It is said indeed he prophesied but there is divers kinds of prophesie in Scripture onely the Text saith he prophesied with the rest of the Prophets but not that he preached to any for hee neither did as the Samaritan woman did nor as the man in whom the devils vvere and truly their actions and performance of them doe manifest a disparitie the woman went onely and told what things had passed betweene her selfe and Christ The man preached it but as for King Saul he prophesied by the instinct of that spirit he now had in praysing and singing with instruments of musicke to God which did confirme him in his extraordinary call of being King all which you could not chuse but know onely it seemes you are disposed to make the world merry To the next 1 Sam. 19.20 where Saul is said to send messengers to David and that they prophesied that is all one with the other 1 Sam. 10.6 and Sauls messengers here prophesied with the rest of the Prophets as Saul himselfe did there and their prophesying must needs have reference to the prophesying of the Prophets for so the words imply that when these messengers came and said the colledge or company of the Prophets then saith the Text they also prophesied and so also in the same manner did Saul himselfe prophesie Now what this prophesie was is expressed in 1 Sam. 10.6 as before was declared it consisted in sounding forth Gods praises with Tabret Pipe Harpe and as Jeduthun did 1 Chron. 25.3 and this was to declare the infinite power and mercy of God towards David whom Saul now had an intent to have slaine as appeares by the whole Chapter Saul sending his messengers and going himselfe yet all could not doe nor bring to a full period his wicked designes against David the like example wee have in 2 King 1. of those two Captaines and their fifties that came to apprehend the Prophet Eliah these men thinking to bring the Prophet to King Ahaziah their ends were frustrated and they themselves were consumed with fire from heaven wherein the power mercy of God was also manifested towards Eliah So that it appeares here it was the wonderful mercy of
no man knowes the things of man but the spirit of a man which is in him so nothing can reveale Gods love to the soule concerning Predestination and Sanctification but the Holy Ghost which sheds abroad the love of God in the hearts of his people and as Jesus Christ doth impart these things by his Spirit to his people so he sends his Ministers to preach the same not in the words of mans wisdome but in the demonstration of the Spirit Now I would intreat you in the next Pamphlet to tell me if there be not a large difference between the interpretation of the true and universall revealed meaning of the Holy Ghost in the sacred Scriptures as well by the understanding of the Originall and line reading pointing collation as by the Spirit himselfe And the certification of those things that concerne a mans Eternall Salvation by the same Spirit which lye hid in Gods everlasting love yet revealed in the Scriptures of which the Apostle here speaks It is true a man my run into extreames as well one way as in another And as he that is skilled in Arts and Tongues without the light of the holy Ghost cannot universally interpret apply Scripture according to the minde of Christ so a man that is destitute of skill in Arts and Tongues and hath nothing in him but that light which proceeds from Gods Spirit cannot on the other side expound according to the originall for God workes by meanes he will and doth convey his minde revealed so farre forth as men can comprehend him with the conjurison of those meanes he hath ordeined instrumentally to communicate himselfe now your selfe saith that this may be desired in those that want it besides the Apostle wishes that the Corinthians had the gifts of tongues calling it a spirituall gift now if this be a spirituall gift and ought to be desired and witout which a man cannot interpret according to that tongue in which the holy Ghost spake then God doth communicate himselfe more to him in larger measures of his revealed will by those meanes he hath ordeined and commended to that purpose then to him who is deficient in the enjoyment of those meanes by which he so conveyes himselfe and so he that is universally qualified and hath both these is fit for the vvorke of the ministery (Å¿) Therefore to the end that unquiet and troublesome men should rashly thrust in themselves to teach or rule it is expresly proviâ—ed that no mâ—n should without calling take upon him a publike officâ— in the Church unlesse called This we may oftentimes marke in Paâ—l when hee meanes to approve his Apostleship hee doth alledge his calling if so great a Minister dare not take this upon him but by the commandement of the Lord how great shamefulnesse shall it be if any man wanting either of these shall challenge such honour to himselfe Calv. iustit pag. 522. and so is not he that is wanting in either true it is that Jesus Christ hath not greater adversaries then those that are greatly learned and unsanctified witnesse the Pharisees but yet againe he hath no greater friends and souldiers to fight his battels although vilified by the world then those who have those humane excellencies sanctified unto them to the other five answers because they are for their substance conteined in the first and are answered in that I will here passe them by and come to the next where you say All the call mentioned in Scripture was the peoples great necessitie and their great willingnesse to heare is most untrue yet to be admitted in cases extraordinary and if you had made that limitation you had done well but when your speeches are indefinite making no caution and restruction where it is required you shew your palpable ignorance for God hath prescribed other things as additionall to the calling of a Minister publikely to preach the Word besides the peoples necessitie and their owne willingnesse his orders must be observed not neglected now the peoples necessitie is to be relatively considered and so made their election but before a Minister can be compleatly fitted for the publike function of the Church hee must be ordained by the Presbytery for if none be fit for the publike function of the Ministery but men sufficiently learned as before was declared how can the people judge of his ability who have no knowledge therein And if the Apostles would not have any to execute the office of a Deacon in the Church which was a lesser and an inferior Church-officer why should those that are designed to a greater and more publike duty miss of that confirmation And (t) You should understand that the assurance of the inward calling dependeth upon the outward for albeit the Spirit of God worketh that assurance yet he worketh by the outward means by the judgement of the Elders and of the Church touching his aptnesse for the Ministery whilest he considereth that calling is not the calling of men but of God through the Ministry of men so that this separation of the knowledge of an inward calling from the outward is not only absurd but confirmes the Anâ—baptists which boast of an inward calling where no calling of the Church went before Cart. 2. rep to Whitg 1. part p. 260 261. although a man can plead never so much his inward calling yet sent he must be as well by the Church as by God himselfe and shew if you can any person in the New or Old Testament that ever publikely Preached unlesse in extraordinary cases but he was confirmed in his calling by the Church now what necessity you can plead is somewhat hard to be understood doubtlesse there was no necessity in you so to doe when there were godly Divines and others to do it or is your necessity so great as those Christians in the 8. Acts when there were none at all but the Apostles now at the persecuted Church at Jerusalem if you object that those Ministers that did so preach did not Preach Jesus Christ purely what of that they preached him truly did they overthrow any substantiall points of Faith the Apostle Paul notwithstanding did rejoyce when some preach Christ out of envy so although they preached him not purely yet they preached him truly To the next Spenc. That it may be lawfull in a mans family but not in a Church Answ And so it may be lawfull in a mans family but not in a Church For as there is no member of the body of Jesus Christ but is of the same nature of the whole a publike member of a publike body and the spirit proceeding from the head to every member is one and the same spirit and his gifts of like nature publike gifts of a publike spirit for the good of the whole body and so though they be members of one body and are to be assistant one to another in that body yet can these members performe the duties of each other indeed in the generall
of the place is this as if Saint Peter had said or the Lord by Saint Peter I will poure out my Spirit in those dayes and on your Sons Daughters I will poure out my Spirit and they shall prophesie That is * So Vrsinus expounds the place Professe my Name Truth walk according to those dictates of my Spirit celebrating and praising me so that it appeares that this your mistake issues from an universall Exposition of a Word which you see admits of divers acceptations Prophesie is the onely beame that hides the truth from approaching your judgement it is true that all Preaching is Prophesying but all Prophesie is not Preaching and I wonder a man should be so miserably mistaken as to expose himselfe to the publike censures of learned Divines who cry out in their Pulpits against such impertinent allegations certainly if wee had but the Presbyteriall discipline established in the Church (o) O Lord who can patiently heare this horrible disorder ascribed to the Apostles Church which here you attribute unto it that every one hand overhead Preached Baptized and expounded the Scriptures what a window nay what a gate is here opened to Anabaptists to confirme their fantasticall opinion wherein they hold that every man whom the Spirit moves may come even from the Plough-taile to to the Pulpit to Preach the Word of God Cart. 1. Rep. to Whitg p â— 38. you would goe neare to come under the sconrge of Ecclesiasticall censure for broâ—â—hing such detestable opinions although you never practised them because herein you open wide the mouthes of the Anabaptists and in the meane time if you repent not of this your sinne you shall certainly answer to that God before whom there is no respect of persons in the dispensations of his justice and chastisements and if a Spirit of Prophecy be admitted in your sence then it will follow that all Gods people must bee publike Preachers for what other sence or interpretation can the words admit or your allegations from this Text for the holy Chost saith they shall Prophesie and you say this Prophesie is publike Preaching which is a pretty exposition and serves excellent well to trouble the Church As for that you say that some object and say that this promise was made good in the Apostles times are you able to disprove them that so say or doe you know what you doe in taking upon to answer such an objection All that you can say is If in the Apostles times they were called the last times much more now all this is true in it self but it behooved you to shew that the last times there mentioned are our last times in which we live for it is not to be denied but the Apostles times were the last times and the last times are also our times and therefore the Apostles as Peter and Paul when they speake of the last times do give us evident light that when such or such things come to passe that then we may assure our selves that those last times are the last times they meane and so when the Apostle saith in the last dayes or towards them shall come perillous times wherein men shall be lovers of themselves covetous proud boastors cursed speakers c. and this signe saith Mr. Perkins hath beene in former ages and is no doubt at this day in the world So you see that some times are sayd to bee the last times not because they are so in themselves but with reference to certaine speciall things which then happen now the last times here in Joels prophesie and in Saint Peters allegatition is as (p) That the Jewes might know the Church could not be repaired which was now lmost ruined but by the Messies that is the sence â—â— Calâ—in on the see and of Acts. Calvin excellently notes spoken in reference to the going out of the Jewish Church for so his words import which was some foure or five hundred yeares after Joels prophesie and therefore they that sayd this Prophesie was fulfilled in the Apostles time say more then you shall ever bee able to disprove yet you must take some limitation this promise was not so universally fulfilled in the Apostles time (q) It comprehends a larger knowledge of him which was to bee given to the faithfull in the Kingdome of Christ Cal. inst pag. 706. as that the people of God in after ages reape no benefit from it but the speciall thing in Ioels Prophesie as visions telling things to come was fulfilled in the Apostles time as appeares by Saint Peters allegation and therefore Protestant Divines doe affirme against the Jesuites that this promise was fulfilled in the Apostles daies so saith (r) In his Synop â—ap St. Peter shewed how these propheâ—es were fulfilled when the holy Ghost was sent like fiery cloven tongues and he ciâ—eth the very words of Joel to confirme the same Saying Dr. Williams true Church pag. 547. Dr. Willet Ruffinus an ancient writer saith they are impudent that thinke otherwise onely Cornelius a Lapide a learned Jesuite with Bellarmine and deny it because forsooth they alledge this place of Acts to prove their Church are never without Prophets that can foretell things to come But the other part of this Prophesie in Acts 2. verse 18. doth belong to Gods people to the end of the World and doth conteine a spirit of conformitie and of professing the name truth of God so Calvin and Vrsinus expound the place Calvin saith it is referred to the worshippers of God those that are in Covenant with him c. Vrsinus of professing and celebrating God so that from hence it is evident you can have small comfort from these Texts And I must further admonish you to take heede ere you bee aware lest you slide into the Tents of the Papists while you thus plead for a Text and the exposition thereof To the next contained in six Answers None is fit for the work of the Ministry unlesse he be skilled in Arts Tongues for if he be not so qualified how shall he be able to answer the learned Adversary Neither is it your answer that hath or ever will prove the contrary if you had said The true understanding of the Scripture comes not only by humane learning then your speech might have been admitted and the Texts of Scripture that you have alleadged prove nothing to this purpose or if they did yet they doe not exclude humane Learning the scope of the Apostles meaning in that place of 1 Cor. 2.13 and yours is 2 Cor. 2.13 is to shew that we cannot understand or know that Eternall Love that superabounding mercy that incomprehensible sweetnesse that is to be found in the powerfull wayes of Jesus Christ but by the Spirit this is evidently proved from the foregoing Chapter the Apostle speaking that Christ was made unto us Wisdome Righteousnesse Sanctification and Redemption proceeds all along telling us that we cannot know these things but by the Spirit for as