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A44833 An answer to a book called A just defence and vindication of Gospel-ministers, and Gospel-ordinances put forth by J.G. In which he pretends an answer to E.B.'s Tryal of the ministers, and other things against the Quakers. ...Given forth from him who desires the edification and satisfaction of all in the things appertaining to the Kingdom of God, Rich. Hubberthorn Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 1660 (1660) Wing H3217; ESTC R219971 13,602 16

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and purified and this we command all Priests to do as Plynny writeth And hereby thou mayest know the first Father or Inventor of this your practise the Pope and not the Apostles so when thou writes again do not so undervallew al the Quake's as thou hast done in this thy book as to say that they dare not read Latine Books nor have read Histories and thou sayest we count it a sinn for Ministers to learn Latine But these are but false aspersions for we do not account it sinn to learn Latine Greek or Hebrew neither are we afraid to read them but we so far do read and know them that we have found out the Priests deceipt by pretending that of the Tongues which they had not and though you Preach and Practise that which you know not where it had it's beginning yet we know how deceit came in and how it hath overspread you with darknesse and ignorance and because you see not therefore you judge us to be blind but the Light of knowledge is arisen in which we see before the Pope his holy Water mingled with salt or sprinkling Infants was and see the beginning and End of those dark inventions and our Doctrine and Principles tends to the bringing of People to know a true living foundation for all their practices and that the darknesse of Popery and traditions of men may not alwayes keep people in blindnesse to practise the Popes inventious instead of the Apostles and Christ Doctrine who by the bright shining of his light is leading people to his Baptism which is by one spirit into one body by fire and by the holy-Holy-Ghost and such can no longer be kept in that which doth not so much as wash away the filth of the flesh but comes to the Answer of a good Conscience and witnesseth the Baptism which saveth as the Apostle Peter saith 1 Pet. 3. 21. and such are come to the washing of Regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost Again to fill up thy book thou hast charged many false things upon us and so findst thy self work by enlarging thy lyes one after another As first thou sayst some of us have affirmed that Christ did never arise from the grave and that his body is rotted within the grave and that some of us have made a mock of his Doctrine of Justification by the imputation and the intercession of Christ Answ. These things are thy own and were never affirmed by any of us but on the contrary that Christ is arisen from the dead and is become our first fruits and by the imputation and intercession are we Justified and of God is he made unto us Justification and life Again thou saist we neither know nor understand what your Ministers preach Answ. Yes we both know and understand that they preach lyes in the Name of the Lord and we know and understand that thou art going about to make a defence and vindication for them in so doing Again thou sayst the Quakers say it matters not whether a man doe any good works seeing they make him not good Page 41. Answ. This is false for none of the Quakers ever said so for our goodnesse is of the Lord and not of works and because we have received goodnesse and mercy from him therefore doe we those things that please him and are obedient to his Will and Commands Again Page 43. that we say a man is saved by hearkning to the light within him and obeying the same Answ. We never said that by hearkning or obeying that man is saved but by him which they are to hear and obey are they saved and without hearkning to his voyce and obeying of him to whom he is preached there is no Salvation Again Page 47. Thou sayst the Quakers instead of blessing and praying for their Enemies curse them Answ. This is false for we blesse and curse not but all cursed practices words and actions we testifie against and for this cause are we accounted thy enemies because we tell thee the truth Again page 48. Thou sai●t instead of abhorring our selves we justify our selves Answ. This is of the number of the rest a false accusation for selfe is that which we beare witnesse against in all justifying nothing but what God justifieth and condemning nothing but what God condemneth Again page 49. Thou sayest the Quakers are so proud to think and say they are more perfect then the Apostle Paul Answ. When did any of the Quakers say they were more perfect then the Apostle but it seems thy tongue is at liberty to make a refuge for the Priests and fill a volume of paper with lyes Again page 51 thou sayst that many of the Quakers go up and down naked to manifest that they are as perfect as Adam was in Innocency Answ. Their going naked is as a Sign unto thee the Priests whom the Lord is now stripping of the sheeps cloathing that all may see your shame and nakednesse and that which you have been covered with is but as leaves and a Formal Notional Profession of God without his Life Power or Spirit and you must be as naked from this covering before you be Innocent as ever any Quaker hath been from their cloaths Again page 56. 57 thou sayest that we do condemn not only the Churches now in being but all that ever have been the Churches of Asia Corin●h Galatia and Thessalonica c. Answ. This is but an addition to thy former lyes for those Churches we do own and all such as do walk in their life and are guided by their Spirit for the Church of the Thessalonians was in God 1 Thes. 1. but thou hast appeared to be of another Spirit and hast manifested thy self to be a condemner of those Churches as well as of us as in page 55. thou saist in the Church at Corinth that there was such corrupt members among them as you can scarce find in the worst of your Congregations So of that which thou falsly chargest us thou art truly guilty thy self and so hast condemned those Churches and Iustified your selves But what corruption was it that was so bad in those Churches that is not in the worst of your Congregations Again as a proof for thy condemning your own Churches thou brings Brightmans words saying behold whatsoever is first that is true and whatsoever is later that is false Chap. 3. page 113. So that hereby by thy old Author and Logick thou hast proved all your Churches in England to be false for the Churches of Asia Corinth Galatia and Thessalonica these were the first but the Churches in England Episcopal and Presbytery these are latter therefore false Again pag 60. Thou sayest the Quakers say they are so perfect that they cannot grow in knowledge nor grace Answ. The Quakers never said so but on the contrary we do grow in knowledge and in grace whereby we se and comprehend how thou and the Preists do grow in rage enmity and false accusations against us and
never so wicked yet because they are merry in their wickedness they may s●ng lyes in the Name of the Lord by thy Argument be Justified as men doing onely that which God had commanded them And again thou maist read in Scripture Joel 1. 5. that such wicked men and drunkards were called to weep and bowl for their misery was coming upon them so the Prophet did not call them to sing Davids Psalms because they were merry in their wickednesse as thou hast done and again thou may read in Amos. 8. 3. That the songs of the Temple shall be turned into bowling and these wicked men in the Temple were Merry and by thy argument might sing Psalmes or spirituall Songs but the Prophet saith instead of singing they must bowl and come to bitter Lamentation praise is not comely in the mouth of Fooles as the wise man saith who is taught of God but the mouth of a Fool poureth forth his folly and the instruction of Fools is folly Pro. 16. 22. And this Script●●●e we se fulfilled in thee for thy instructing of Fooles and wicked men because they are merry in their wickednesse they may sing Psalmes as a Command from God and herein I have answer'd a fool according to his foly least he should be wise in his own conceit and although David calleth all Gods host and all living things made and created to praise the Lord the Sun Moon and Stars the Heavens and the Waters the Earth the Dragons and the Deeps Fire Haile Snow and Vapor Stormes and Wind fulfilling his word Mountains and Hills and fruitfull Trees all Beasts Cattle Creeping things and flying Fowles Kings of the earth and all People c. And now as David was in the Covenant he saw the Creatures as they stood in their Covenant uncorrupted and so in a fit capacity to praise the Lord only man degenerated and unrestored again into the Covenant he saw it was not comely for him to praise nor to pray nor to take Gods words in his mouth nor to speak of his Statutes so far from Justifying thy Argument that wicked men because they are merry therefore may sing Psalmes but when the Priests or people takes notice of thy book and what Logick thou hast learned to jutify the wicked in their Singing as well as the godly and how thou hast shamed both thy self and them with such foolish confusion and University Logick its like they will set thee no more awork to defend and vindicate them with such weapons Again page 89. thou saist that it is said by the Prophet prov. 21. 4. that the ploughing of the Ploughman is sinn Answ. Here thou hast belyed the Prophet and perverted his words as thou hast done the Quakers for the Prophers words is these an high look and a proud heart and the ploughing of the wicked is sin but he doth not say that the ploughing of the Ploughman is sin But who can escape the envy of slandrous tongues which accounteth lying no sin if thereby they can accomplish their own wicked ends but the truth hath found thee out and made thee manifest and the Priests had better a wanted thy defence then to be so shamed by it as they will be unless they deny both thee and it Again in the same page thou saist to hear read pray sing psalmes and giving of thanks they are works morally good being Commanded by the Lord but the person doing them being not justified they are not good to him for whatsoever is not of Faith is sin Answ. This is another piece of confusion and charging of God foolishly and falsly to say that the Lord commands those things to be done and those he commands to do them in doing of which it is not good to them but sin Where hast thou learned or where dost thou read of such a doctrine that wicked men are commanded of God to do such things which in doing is not good to them but sin Is God or Christ then the Minister of sin or commands a man to conmit sin Is not this Blasphemy Error in the highest degree And how daest thou speak of God or of his Commands or of his Obedience seeing thou thus Blasphems him in his Worship but this shall remain as a Testimony against thee many other lyes and abominations hast thou spoken against us and against God and his Truth a few of which is sufficient to make thee manifest In page 107. thou saist our Quaking fits many are of opinion that they are diabolicall by a kind of witcheraft and said thou hast heard strange relations of Enchanted Ribbons and giving drink after c. Answ. Upon the same account many was of opinion that Christ had a Devill and was a Deceiver and that the Apostles were Ring-leaders of Sects Heresyes and such strange relations might have been heard concerning the Apostles in their dayes and it seemes to thee that such reports is sufficient proofe but this is contrary to what thou hast said in an other place that thou wouldst speake nothing but according to what was written in the Scriptures And whereas thou tells of Enchanted Ribbons Is there some Ribbons that are enchanted it may be thou meaneth enchanting Ribbons but if so where didst thou ever know such a thing and for proofe thou names Gilpin and Toldervyes books which neither of them doth relate such a thing so that it is thy enmity wickednesse for there was never any such thing among the Quakers as giving Ribbans and drink after but that charge thou might haue laid upon the Priests and their Defenders for there are the most ribbons used justified till in pride they are become the Servants of the Devill and there is the giving of drink one to another untill they be enflamed and made unsensible of God and of his fear by which they are enchanted and bewitched that they doe not obey the Gospell but are given up to their owne hearts Lusts and thereby are become the Servants of sin and so free from righteousnesse Lastly not only we have been falsly accused in these and many other things by thee but even the spirit of God which is the Fountain of cleannesse is by thee charged and accused to be corrupt an defiled page 33. by passing through mans corrupt nature thou saist becomes defiled Answ. Is not this a sin against the holy Ghost which shall never be forgiven to charge the spirit to be corrupt and defiled And in this thou also chargeth both the Father and the Son to be corrupt defiled for they are one so that if one of them be corrupt the other is corrupt also and as the spirit is in the Saints so is the Father in them and the Son the hope of their glory and none of them are defiled by mans corrupt nature But there is that in man by which that which corrupteth his nature is wrought out so that man is made clean and undefiled by the spirit and that spirit is not made corrupt and defiled by Man for that is contrary to the Scripture to say that by mans nature the spirit is defiled but to say that by the spirit mans nature is cleansed and sanctified this is according to the Scripture but it is the work of Sathan and his Messengers to Blasphem God in his Temple and so account his spirit by which he leadeth into all truth an unholy thing and so thou art of the number of them which account the blood and Spirit of the Covenant an unholy thing and we seeing and knowing these things as concerning our selves we are satisfied because the Servant is not abo●e his Master for if the Master be called Belzebub and the spirit a defiled or corrupt thing well may wee be called Deceivers although we be true and falsly accused with all manner of evil according to our Masters words and these things we should bear in patience and silence as to our selves but as in respect unto others we are constrained by the uncorrupted and undefiled Spirit of the Lord to testifie to the world that their deeds are evil and to manifest the workings of Sathan in the Mystery of Iniquity which now already worketh in many justifying the wicked and condemning the Just which is abomination to the Lord which his Spirit will not bear unreproved and not onely the Just men are condemned and falsly accused but also the Just undefiled Eternal and unerring Spirit is accused by him who makes a defence for the Priests in their unrighteous Practices and Wages so by the plain Evidence and Demonstration of Truth he being made manifest to be an Enemy to God and by his wicked works and words I do Judge him not worthy of much more Answer to his Book and also I do Judge him not able to prove any of the false Accusations charged in it against us some of which is herein returned unto him again which when he doth but really weigh it and consider it may be he will sit down in silence and wait if there may be hope of his forgiveness for this not onely ignorance but wilfulness charging us the Spirit of God and his people with that of which they were never guilty for we are in the Truth unto which every tongue shall confess and by which every Opposer shall become silent before the Lord and in the Spirit of this Truth do we desire not the Di●●ruction but the Repentance and Forgiveness of our Enemies And those that do abuse us and wrong us ignorantly their sins will be sooner blotted out then those who wilfully have set their hearts and tongues to work wickedness for they shall receive the greater condemnation The knowledge and life of truth is that we desire all people may come into that by it the power of the wicked one may be taken away which so furiously worketh in the hearts of those which receives not the Truth in the love of it but brings forth floods of enmity bitterness against the Lambs of Christ but the love of God which thinketh no evil neither doth any unto another is that which when it is felt obeyed in all will dry up those floods from off the face of the Earth that there may be a place of Rest for the Redeemed and Elect Seed who onely hath the Lord and his light for their habitation and the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God for their Armour and Defence THE END