Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n
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A72174
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A briefe discourse of certaine points of the religion which is among the commõ sort of Christians, which may bee termed the countrie diuinitie with a manifest confutation of the same, after the order of a dialogue / compiled by George Gifforde.
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Gifford, George, d. 1620.
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1582
(1582)
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STC 11846; ESTC S5348
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72,465
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187
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against preaching of Gods woorde that it maketh men neuer the better and ye would haue them leaue talking and fall to doing I confesse there be a number which are counterfeite professors which liue not according to the Gospell and most commonly they be such as haue but a little smacke of the Gospel and yet thinke they know much because they want the meanes hauing the worde either seldome or loosely preached But I will confute your vanitie another waye in this point tell me are not these your sayinges where the woorde is sincerely preached if any seeke to frame their liues after the same when they doe eyther by woorde reprooue your euill wayes or by deede refuse your lewde maners These men are full of the Spirite these are precise fellowes these are holie Saintes these thinke them selues Gods fellowes these thinke them selues better then all other men Ath. We say so in deede there is good cause why Zelot Then I pray ye tell me howe these two thinges can hang together when ye saie there is no amendement of life and yet yee complaine that they be ouer full of the spirit ouer precise and such like May not euery man see that ye pronounce thinges directly contrarie the one to the other that there is no amendment and yet in effect ye say they amende ouer fast Ath. Wee doe not saye that any doe amende ouer fast Zelot When ye say they are ouer holy and what shoulde men be so curious and full of the spirite what is this but to say that they amende ouer fast Is not this to amend when men by due instruction out of Gods woorde come to repentaunce of their former vices and haue a care to keepe them selues from the spottes of the rotten fleshe and filthie worlde Do not you and such as you are after a sort blaspheme when yee reproche men with the spirite Is it a shame for a man nowe a dayes for to haue anye thing to doe with the spirite of God While a man doeth walke after the fleshe in the lustes of vncleannesse he is an honest man But so soone as hee is indued with any grace ye wonder at him as crowes do at an owle yee are readie to floute and mocke him out of his skinne And as if the spirite of GOD were a spirite of dishonour and shame yee mocke men with him Wee may wonder at the longe patience of GOD which hath thus many yeeres suffered himselfe to be dishonoured his spirite reuiled his woorde despised and hath not been reuenged but no doubt the longer hee hath â—aried the heauier will the stroke be Ath. Men are men what shoulde they make themselues more holy then they be Zelot If ye meane one way ye say right for it is a naughtie vice for men to seeme to be holy when they are not or to seeme to be more holy then they be but if yee meane another way as I thinke ye doe that because men are sinfull by nature why shoulde they seeke for to be better then doe ye speake verie wickedly For God calleth men to repentance to turne from their euill wayes God guideth his seruants at all times with his spirite therfore S. paule sayth Rom. 8. There Is no condemnation nowe to those whiche are in Christ Iesus which walke not after the fleshe but after the spirite And againe in the same chapter As many as are led by the spirite of God are the sonnes of God Hee sayth that if wee liue after the fleshe we shall dye in other places he doth shewe whiche are the workes of the spirite and whiche are the workes of the fleshe And you like blasphemous wretches allowe those whiche walke after the flesh and condemne those which are led by the spirite Ath. Are none indued with Gods Spirite but such as runne to heare preaching Zelot Whosoeuer hath the spirite of God can not but delight in the woorde of God whiche the same spirite hath vttered The Lorde saith hee which is of God heareth Gods worde The happie man is hee as wee haue in the 1. Psalme whiche hath his delight in the lawe of the Lorde and which doeth meditate in the same day and night We haue in the psalme 112. Blessed is the man which feareth the Lorde hee hath great delight in his commaundements Moreouer the spirite of GOD doeth not guide men without the woorde And therefore it is saide Psalme 119. Thy woorde is a lanterne vnto my feete and a light vnto my pathes S Peter sayth I. Epist 1. Hee hath beegotten vs againe not of mortall but of immortall seede which he affirmeth to bee the worde of God that indureth for euer Likewise S. Iames saith cap. 1. of his owne good will begat hee vs by the woord of trueth Seeing therfore that the holy Ghost doth guide men by the worde it followeth that all those which set light by the woorde are led not with the spirite of God but with the spirite of the Diuell I might alleadge a number of testimonies of Scripture to prooue that such as you which make so small accompt of the sacred woorde of God as there be a number yea the greatest number whiche doe not set so muche by it as they doe by an olde shoe are despicers of God worse then brute beastes Ath. Cannot men be lead by Gods spirit and serue God vnlesse they knowe the Scriptures GOD forbidde that all those shoulde bee awry which are not learned is it not enough for plaine countrie men plow men taylours and suche other for to haue their ten commaundementes the Lordes prayer and the beliefe I thinke these may suffice vs what shoulde wee meddle further I knowe men whiche are no scripture men whiche serue GOD as well as the best of them all Will yee condemne such Zelot I sayde before that men can not be lead by Gods spirite and refuse to knowe the Scriptures Neyther can they truelie serue him vntill suche time as they knowe howe for to serue him for GOD teacheth howe he will be serued and hee teacheth onlie in his worde his will is that we shal learne to know him by his worde And therefore he hath appointed the Ministerie of the woorde to continue for euer in his Church that by it men may be built vp in Christe as yee may reade Ephe. 4. For this cause S. Paule exhorteth Tymothie to bee instant in teaching in season out of season he trauelled himselfe night and daie he maketh a verie ferâ—eâ—â— prayer to God continuallie for the Collossians that they might bee fulfilled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdome and spirituall vnderstanding Collos ver 9. For this cause hee exhorteth the Christians to bee children in malice but not to bee children in vnderstanding The holy Ghost doth sharpely reprooue the Hebrewes as wee may see in the latter end of the 5. chap. of that Epistle because they were yet children to be taught when for the time they shoulde haue been teachers Againe there is
Ath. There bee a number goe so farre they cannot tell what they may doe they will not doe as their honest neighbours doe they wilbe wiser then their betters what shoulde they meddle with Gods woorde it maketh â—hembusie in checking euery man It was neuer merry since men vnlearned haue medled with the scriptures Zelot I maruell how far you would go if a man shoulde followe ye yee are like a puddle which the more a man stirreth it the more filthie mud ariseth yee are like a sinke where the more a man stirreth the more is the stink Ath. What meane ye by that Zelot I mean that your heart is full of foule slinking rotten matter which floweth out at your mouth I confesse that those men bee not to be allowed which meddle with that which they should not but I know whom you meane when ye say they goe so farr that they know not what they may doe ye speake of them which seek to know GOD whom ye thinke to be halfe madde Ath. There be some of them which are not book learned what should they doe otherwise then their fathers before them I knew some of their fathers honest men and neuer troubled themselues that way Zelot I did know your mind wel enough for al your spite is against those which learne out of Gods word to know their duety towards the lord because as S. Pet. saith 1. Pe. 4. they do not run with ye to the same exces of riot ye think it strange blasphemy Agayn ye cannot abide to be admonished when ye commit any naughty thing Ye know not that God hath appoynted his word for all sortes of meÌ„ to be instructed in it throughly for the holy Apostles exhort euery where vnto great knowledge in the worde Againe ye know not that which the Lorde coÌ„mandeth in sundrie places that we should admonishe and reprooue one another if any do amisse not as you blind obstinate men which when a man doeth after a godlie manner admonish yee hee is by and by a busie medler what hath he to doe he shall not answere for you And because yee may not doe what lewdnes yee list vncontrolled yee say it was neuer merry since euery man might read the scriptures It is maruellous that men should so become beastes without all vnderstanding Ath. It would not gréeue me to bée reprooued by those which are learned but now euery Iacke wilbe medling Zelot If you be reproued iustly by Gods worde then is it God which doth reproue ye are not to looke vppon the man But when ye call them Iackes and giue them other reproches it is because yee are blinde and can discerne nothing but that whiche is of this worlde For if yee could see how great glorie the poorest true Christian is called vnto to be the child of God yee woulde not reuile those whom God honoureth Ath. They will be medling in smal matters if it were for great saults it were somewhat but a man may not be merrie nowe Zelot Beeyng vtterly blinde and voide of grace yee count those sinnes which are foule and grosse for to bee small swearing rayling talking in your filthie ribaldty singing sowle and beastly songes these and such like are your pety faultes this is your myâ—th whâ—â—n must not bee hindered For it is death to yee to haue any godlinesse spoken of if it be ye cannot bee merry This dunghill mirth is that which men complaine of to be molested and say it was happie in olde time when men were not reproued for such things now there be so many scripture men that a man cannot tell what to say or what to doe Ath. There are none of yée all as holie as yée woulde séeme for to be but haue faultes yée sée not your owne but other mens Zelot Hee which doeth not repente and correct his own vitious nature and striue to obey God is no good reproouer of others But when yee say men seeme to be holy and giue it as a matter of reproch therein yee goe almost beyond the Diuell himselfe for you see that I gainesaie yee or els yee woulde not inure it but yee would euen Powre out your stinking rotten poyson like blasphemous and venemous beastes ye would speake after this manner you that are so full of the spirite you that are Saintes and such like What are you diuelles are yee of the flesh no doubt yee are vntil God conuert ye But we may see how diuelishly men are become wicked when a man cannot make any appearance to be godly and holy but it is reproched as though it were a shameful thing to be led by the spirite For otherwise why do they so obiecte an honest thing to liue after the fleshe a shamefull matter to be guided by the spirite Ath. God helpe vs if none be good but such I hope honest and quiet men shalbe saued as well as they although they cannot talke so well nor runne not to heare Sermons Zelot Nay you would haue others in berter case then they for you iudge them that are zealous in the Gospel and woulde fainest of all other please God to be the worst men and the more carefull a man is to be holy to the Lorde the more he is disdayned and misliked Which doeth euidently shewe that such as you are led by the spirite of the Diuell Yee leade me so from one matter to another that wee are gone from something which ye vttered I remember yee saide yee put your whole trust in God Ath. I sayd so so I say still though I haue no learning yet I trust I beleeue as well as any scripture man of them all Zelot Yee bragge very boldly I pray ye tell me this are yee sure ye shalbe saued Ath. No nor you neyther nor the best of yee all wee muste commit that too God Zelot What is it that yee put all your whole trust in him for Is it not this that GOD hath promised vnto yee eternal life and that yée beleeue he wil performe his promise Ath. That hee doeth loue me and giueth me all thinges Zelot Are yee not sure that hee doth loue yee Ath. I hope he doth loue me but I am not sure Zelot Doeth not the scripture saye that whosoeuer doth trust in him shalbe saued Ath. God sayth so indeede and I beleeue it is so Zelot You knowe doe yee not that yee put your whole trust and beliefe in him Ath. I knowe I doe and I hope I shall alwayes doe Zelot If God can not lie when hee saith all that trust in him shall bee saued and you knowe that yee put your whole trust in him Wherefore doe yee not then knowe that yee shalbe saued Ath. That which God sayth is true for he cannot lie I put my trust in none but in him I hope to be saued what would yée haue more I will beléeue neuer a one of them all when they say they know they shalbe saued I thinke they woulde