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A09103 A discussion of the ansvvere of M. VVilliam Barlovv, D. of Diuinity, to the booke intituled: The iudgment of a Catholike Englishman liuing in banishment for his religion &c. Concerning the apology of the new Oath of allegiance. VVritten by the R. Father, F. Robert Persons of the Society of Iesus. VVhervnto since the said Fathers death, is annexed a generall preface, laying open the insufficiency, rayling, lying, and other misdemeanour of M. Barlow in his writing. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.; Coffin, Edward, 1571-1626. 1612 (1612) STC 19409; ESTC S114157 504,337 690

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nutriret cum autem id maceret extenuet macieque conficiat corpor●lis dici omnino non potest Some men as M. Barlow do say that the Apostle speaking of vnprofitable bodily exercise meaneth of fasting but truely they do erre for that fasting is no bodily exercise but spirituall For if it were bodily it would no doubt nourish the body but whereas it doth chastise the body extenuateth and maketh it leane it cannot any way be called corporall So he And if wee will haue the testimony of another as ancient as S. Chrysostome most skill●ull in the Greeke tongue wherin S. Paul writeth these wordes though no Grecian borne wee may heare S. Hierome who vpon those wordes of Exerce te ipsum ad pietatem exercise thy selfe to piety setteth downe first what piety is saying Pietas est e●iam 〈◊〉 tua tribulatione alijs subuenire Sicut Sareptana vidua seci● Piety is to help other men euen with thy owne tribulation as the poore widdow of Sarepta did feed the Prophet Elias with the bread that she had reserued for her sonne and her selfe And then as for corporall exercise named by the Apostle he sayth it was meant of things belonging to the bodily health as Sanctarum balnearum venationum huiusmodi quae ad breue tempus carnali proficiunt sanitati holy bathes such as holy men did vse for help of their health hunting and other such bodily exercises for the same end which do profit to the health of the flesh but for a short time which admonition is thought to haue bene giuen by S. Paul to Timothy as to a young man that was somewhat delighted with these bodily exercises or counsailed therunto by Phisitiōs for help of his said health To which end also the said Apostle in the same Epistle exhorteth him not to drinke water still but to vse a little wine for help of his stomacke and in regard of his other frequent infirmities but yet would haue him to exercise himselfe in the workes of piety as now hath bene sayd So as this place also of S. Paul hath bene abused by M. Barlow his prophane interpretation against externall mortifications But now lastly he commeth neere vs indeed and will shew that Queene Elizabeth her mortification was of another kind perhaps not heard of before Let vs heare his words Fourthly sayth he to be a King and to gouerne as a King should do is mortification of it selfe This is the largest way I suppose of mortification that he can lay before vs for of this kind he will find no doubt many mortified people both of men and women that would be content to accept of this mortification to be Kings Queenes and to gouerne well in their owne conceipts For what Prince thi●keth not that he gouerneth well and not only Kings Princes are to be comprehended vnder this mortification but proportionally also all other Magistrates and Gouernours vnder them who haue one poynt more of mortification lying vpon them then their Supreme Princes for that they are lyable to giue account to them which the others are not and consequently they are more subiect to mortification in their offices and dignities and yet most men do seeke after them both in England and els where which doth shew that there is great store of mortified men in the world or at leastwise of men that loue this mortification and desire to be so mortified And if to be a Bishop also be a mortification then hath M. Barlow in like manner proued himselfe a mortified man then those words of S. Paul to the Collossians Mortificate membra vestra quae sunt super terram Mortify your members which are vpon earth may haue this sense also among other do you mortify your self with some good Bishopricke or other dignity that in it selfe is a mortification And do we not see what prophane trifling this is And that by this drawing Christian vertues out of their compasse true natures and spheres they do eneruate and euacuate all their force and bring their practice to a meere sound of words The Catholike doctrine is that mortification is a most excellent Christian vertue commended highly in the Scriptures and exercised by all Saints and especially by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles and by the greatest Saints Seruants of his that haue ensued in his Church as may appeare as well by those words of S. Paul now recited as also these other to the Romans Si spiritu sacta carnis mortificaueritis viuetis If you shall mortify the works of the flesh by spirit you shall liue And then followeth the contrary set downe in the same place If you shall not mortify your sayd members deeds of the flesh therof ensuing but shall liue Secundum carnem by obeying the lust therof you shall dy euerlastingly Wherby is also vnderstood the nature of this excellent vertue whose name of mortification is deriued from the word Mors that signifieth Death for that as when death entreth vpon a body and driueth out the soule the sayd body remayneth without sense ●eling or other motion so when this vertue of mortification is well exercised of a Christian man it doth take a way the sensuall life of our lusts and passions and doth mortify them in their vnlawfull appetites so as they remaine as it were feeble cold and dead in resisting or rebelling against the superiour parts of the soule directed by rea●on and religion And this is that most happy and excellent death so much desired by S. Augustine when he sayd to God moriar ne moriar let me dy that I may not dy and good S. Bernard Vti●am hac morte ego frequenter cadam vt euadam l●queos mortis vt non sentiam vitae luxurian●is mortisera blandimenta Would to God I may often dy this death that therby I may escape the snares of the other death that I may not feele the deadly flatterings and allurements of this present dissolute life And then he goeth further to many particularities saying Vt obstupescam ad sensum libidinis ad aestum auaritiae ad iracundiae impatientiae stimulos ad angoris solicitudinem ad molestias cu●●rum moriatur anima mea morte i●s●●rum bo●a mors quae non aufert sed transfert in meltus Let me dy by this death of mortification that I may become sensles to the feeling of carnall lusts to the heate of couetousnes to the pricks of anger and impatience to the afflictions of solicitude to the troubles of to many cares let my soule dy with the death of iust men this is a good death and doth not take life from me but doth change it to a better Thus that holy and deuout Father of the workes and effects of mortification and of his ardent loue that he had therunto And the like I might most aboundantly shew out of other Fathers but it were ouerlong for this place The saying of S.
which in his nam● M. Barlow guieth vs these The Popes haue perswade● themselues the warrs were iust and therefore as a Generall in the field pursued them as open enemyes or as a Iudg● vpon the bench commaunded execution to be done vpon thē● as MALEFACTORS And doe you not think● he hath played well his prize I will end this matter where M. Barlow doth begyn it to wit with his Ep●●stle Dedicatory which although it be written to 〈◊〉 Maiesty yet he blusheth not in the same to tell him that F. Persons hath through his whole booke discharged his rancor both against his person and Apology Againe that he careth not what he writes nor whome he reuiles nor how t' is taken And that he hath in the basest sort with his scorning ribaldry defiled and b●smeared two sacred Princes successiuely raigning And that he cannot hould but must needs regorge his spirit is so turbulēt and vnquiet and as Hierome speaketh of Heluidius maledicere omnibus bonae cōscientiae signum arbitratur he thinks his conscience then best discharged when he hath reuiled most And againe if the obiection be that I haue not spared from reproaching him I deny it not How could I forbear● or who can blame me None that eyther hath loyall hart to your Maiestie being our gracious Soueraigne or Christian regard of her who late was that euer blessed Q●eene 82. And that you may know the taske which he hath taken by interposing himselfe in this answere between F. Persons and his Maiesty how great it is with what resolution against all aduentures he is bent to goe through with the same he sticketh not for courage to compare himselfe to the Roman Curtius who cast himselfe into the stinkng gulfe and for patience to the holy Martyr S. Sebastian for so out of S. Ambrose he sayth Against me let him empty his whole quiuer of reproaches all of them I hope will be like the Roman arrows shot against S. Sebastian drawne with bent force loos'● with much ease but receaued with strong comfort So is th●s valiant Captaine fenced against all assaultes and prepared with armour of proofe for all encounters But yet euen in this very brauery of his he cannot forbeare his wonted forgery For S. Ambrose vpon the 118. psalme hath nor ●ny mentiō of S. Sebastiās arrows and therfore M. Barlow out of his good pollicy cyted not the Octonary but the whole volume least if he had made any direct reference the Reader had soone espied the deceipt But this is a small fault in M. Barlow we must be forced to ouerpasse pardon much greater 83. Hauing thus set forth himselfe as though he were a Spartan a Curti●● a S. Sebastian he so contemptibly speake●h of his Aduersary as if in respect of him he were b●t like a littl● mouse in the paw of a Liō whom a man saith M. Barlow can neither auoid without calumny nor encounter but with blot of infamy nor cō●uer with hope of any ma●stery and ●herefor● approueth ●is Mai●●ties opinion who a● h● sai●● ●●●●dged a rope the fittest answere for him but in my booke in this very page here cited I find his Maiesty to say that an hangman is fittest to answere such an historian alluding worthily to M. Barlow who was to answere him for hi● answere better befitteth a man of that trade then eyther a Bishop or Deuine or one that would be taken for both to write and set forth and yet notwithstanding in the end of his Epistle he vauntingly promiseth to himself security from any reply thereunto from F. Persons for verbalize ●e saith● he can dispute he cannot in Stories he is a great florisher but a false relator of them● who so inioynes him a modest answere doth vndoe him Neither his age nor profession neither shame of the world nor feare of God nor grace of the spirit can mortifie his nature or restraine his tongue Thus to his M●●●stie and after in his short Admonition to the Reader he addeth The stile in respect of my place and pr●fession may peraduenture be adiudged too bitter but c●●pared with his person and reuiling veyne against two such Christiā Monarches no one Iote therof in exact Surui●●● of better iudgment is eyther pared off or spared at all So M. Barlow 84. And do you not thinke that he hath her● described some Cynicall Proteus or railing Zoylus 〈◊〉 raging Thiestes whose tongue is so intemperate and stile so contumelious as would moue euen one that can beare all iniuries of other mens tongues as p●tiently as S. Sebastian did his arrowes to inueigh against him and requite him in the same method and man●●● of speach And that none who beareth either loyall hart to his Maiesty or Christian regard to M. Barlows deare deceassed Mistresse can blame him for vsi●● this sharp reiection in their defence Moreouer t●●● how bi●●●rly soeuer he speake against his Aduersar●es yet compared with his person and reuiling veyne against two Princes no io●e was to be pared and spared because forsooth a modest answere would vndoe him and therfore M. Barlow is forced to be immodest euen ●gains● his mild disposition you may be sure and to answere him with such intemperate scurrilitie as he doth when as yet no modest man would euer be moued much lesse forced thereunto for that is the speciall praise of the vertuous neuer to be drawne to d●● ill by the prouocation or bad example of the wicked 85. But let vs examine the charge it sel● which how much the greater and more grieuous it is the more it requireth on his behalfe plaine and euident proofe for none can be free where it sufficeth only to accuse Wherefore seing that he is so copious in accusing with such variety of phrases and sentences let vs consider a litle how the thing it self is euicted what words what witnesses what probable coniectures inductions or presumptiōs are brought for the same we handle not now a speculatiue question in which variety of iudgements may breed diuersity of opinions neyther talke we of China or Mex●co and what is done in them from whence the length of the way as it may weary the trauaylers so also weaken the credit of their reports our controuersie is about a matter of fact and that registred as he will haue it in a printed booke in which if either M. Barlow or any other for him can find any r●uiling● such are the loathsome vnsauory phrases of this impure Minister against his Mai●sties person that now is as for Q. Elizabeth I remit him to the ensuing Discussion let M●●●●low be belieued and me discredited yea let all his raylying passe for modest reason his lying for ●ruth● 〈◊〉 for an honest mā But if no such thing be to be found as I acertayne the Reader that it cannot them let M. Barlow be knowne to haue made a notoriou●ly to his Maiestie in print and haue that credit hereafter which such
of which discourse what trow yo● doth M. Barlow infer He secretly saith he girds a his Maiesty for being both a Philosopher which is h●● Maiest●es great glory our Realmes happines● for true Philosophy ioyned to go●ernment regulates the scepter to the subiects comfort and the Kingdomes renowne and an heretick also a perfect slaunder in them both for by that religion which they call heresie he doth truly glorifie the God of heauen So he and who can deny● but that here is also besmearing as M. Barlow hath framed his Cōmētary but I verily thinke that God is little glorified by such bad glosses so little coherent yea so cleane repugnan● to the text Let vs come to the last for hasten to a● end of this Preface meane not to make any longer demurr vpon this kind of sycophancy 95. The most potent proofe of all the rest to euince that F. Persons wrote against his Maiesty and not T. M. which M. Barlow will haue to be demonstratiue and therfore setteth it out with his Ministeriall eloquence and Episcopall grauity is taken from these words of the said Father where hauing āswered the obiectiōs made against the liues of some Pope● he concludeth thus If a man would goe about to discredit Kingly authority by all the misdeeds of particuler Kings that haue byn registred by Historiographers since the tyme that Popes began he should finde no doubt aboundāt ma●●er and such as could not be defended by any probability And yet doth this preiudicate nothing to Princely power or dignity and much lesse in our case where the facts themselues obiected are eyther exaggerated increased wrested or● altogeater falsified 96. To this what replyeth M. Barlow Here first saith he is verified that speach of Seneca nemo personam diu ferre potest Art cannot long estrange nature But as the Apologue d●scrib●s Venus transformed waiting-mayde who beeing trickt vp like a Gentlewomā mink'st it a while till she spied a Mouse but then made it knowne she was a Cat So this Censurer who all this while would make the Reader belieue that he confuted onely one T. M. the yonger and would seeme to take no knowledge that our Gra●ious Soueraigue had to doe in the Apology now being exasp●rate with this round canuasin● of the Pope and knowing that it will be descried for the stile and veine of more th●n an ordinary man he forgets his dissembled aduersary● lik● a perfit Iesuit retorts vpon the King Thus he But how is this proued Heare I pray and admire the wisdome of Syr William For if T. M. saith he were the tru● Apolog●r the recrimination had bene more fit both in resp●ct of these precedēt instances of Popes and that supp●s●d Author to haue made the comparison between Bishops Minist●rs But if I answere him againe that it was more fitly made betweene King● Popes in respect of their supreme authority which is not lost by the demerit of their liues he hath nothing to reply therunto but that all they who weare the habit or are inuested into holy orders amongst Protestants I vse his ●wne words are not free from notorious vices and scandalous to the world which I confesse and none I thinke can with any reason or truth gaine-say the same 97. By these then and such like reasons he would proue F. Persons to haue written against hi● Maiesty whatsoeuer he said against Thomas Mountague and consequently to haue railed against him which although they be very childish ridiculous and impertinent as you haue seene prouing nothing but his owne sicophancy yet as though they were cleerer mathematicall demons●rations then any in Euclide he buildeth all his accusation vpon them and sayth as you haue heard that he could not without touch of disloyaltie forbeare from reproach and that in respect of F. Persons reuiling veyne nothing at all was to be pared or spared telling his Maiesty that neyther the shame of the world nor feare of God nor grace of the spirit can mortify his nature or restraine his tongue but citeth no sentēce word or syllable for the same but such as you haue heard With M Barlow whose rayling I meane heere to examine I will deale more really and out of his owne words shew what feare of God he hath what shame of the world what grace of the spirit what mortified nature what mod●st tongue and then leaue it to Readers iudgment to determine whether in such brutish reuiling no sparing or paring were to be vsed or not 98. In his Epistle Dedicatory which is not very long besides the reproaches mentioned of rancour scorning ribaldry defiling besmearing regorging and the like he calleth F. Persons a debos●ed abiect and vnreformed Hypocrite belike M. Barlow is a reformed one a Rakeshame Rabshekah of a prostituted conscience impudency whose very name is the epitome of all contumely being as currant in a pro●erb as was once the name of Daedalus In omni fabula Daedali execratio for no libell can come from Rome but Persons is presently supposed and noysed to be Author and the more vile the more Persons like a creature that doth rage snarle c. Thus much to his Maiesty himselfe And is not this thinke you fit for a Prince to read or pre●ēded Prelate to write Is the grauity learning modesty and vertue of the English Clergy for which our Country before this reuolt was most famous so lost as insteed of answering like Deuines to see one bearing himselfe for a Bishop to renew the old Comedy in an epistle to his Soueraigne a Booke written in his defēce which euē on the heathen stage was so much misliked condemned by all 99. To this begining is sutable the whole worke which followes or rather much worse For in the very entrance after he hath set down what order he will obserue and repeated some of F. Persons words but falsly after his accustomed manner he calleth him a ranging voluntary runnagate an Hispanized Camelion the brat of an Incubus filius terrae no true Englishman eyther in hart or by birth This is his first assault rude Ruffianlike as you see and then afterwardes he telleth of the disgorging the gall of his bitternes and the venemous rancour of his cancred hart by his Rabshakeis pen that he is the abstract quintessence of all coynes coggeries forgeries that lyes dissembles equiuocates at euery word this fugitiue tenebrio Persons Robin Cowbucke parasite and trayterous clawbacke a knowne incendiary this serpens Epidaurius the Diuells schollar his Deuillity reader Spiritus mendax in ore omnium Prophetarum this boutefeaux he disgorgeth out of his filthy throat by his diuelish pen c. And is there heer no paring nor sparing to be vsed in the iudgment of M. Barlows exact Surueyers Truely eyther their Suru●y was not very exact or their iudgmēt small or els they were not his friēds that would permit such scurrility
many more then I haue taken and in some of the heads touched more aduantagions also for the cause it self then those which I haue alleadged as who so listeth with any diligence to confer M. Barlows booke with F. Persons Letter or examine the passages he cyteth of others or his owne discourse collections and inferences will soone perceaue 132. Wherefore I wish thee good Reader vpon that which hath bene said to weigh first the difference both in the spirit and method of these two men and that by no other ballance then their owne bookes for thereby thou shalt see where truth where vertue and learning is and contrariwise where falshood forgery and ignorance The letter is in many mens hands and so is M. Barlow his booke doe but confront them togeather and thou shalt in the one find grauity iudgment learning method in writing modesty truth what else should be in one that handleth a question of that nature and in the other neyther stile nor order nor modesty or any grauity learning or truth at all and for the manner of his writing it is so harsh patched togeather like a beggars cloake and like a sick mans dreame so ill coherent vnles it be when he flatters for then he striues of purpose to be eloquent as in reading the same I often thought of that censure of S. Hierome against Iouinian who was as fond in his latin phrases as M. Barlow is in his English Qu●tie●cumque cum legero vbi me defecerit Spiritus ibi est distinctio totum incipit totum pendet ex altero nescias quid cui cohareat As often as I read him where my breath shall faile me there is a full point the whole begins the whole depend● of some what else that a man knowes not what coherence one thing hath with another 133. Withall thow mayest obserue what strange impudency it was in M. Barlow to tell his Maiesty that F. Persons railing was such as neither his age 〈◊〉 profession neither shame of the world nor feare of God nor grace of the spirit could mortifie his nature or restraine his tongue when as out of that Letter which he answereth there is no sentence or syllable that can sound of such insolency but his tongue hath so ouerlashed as neither age nor profession nor shame nor feare no● grace could restraine it And if that such intempera●● and vnsincere dealing be the grace of Protestants spirits there needeth no great tryall to be made for discerning them from what sourg or fountayne they proceed or whether they be g●od or bad And whereas he mentioneth prof●ssion alluding as I take it to the religious profession of Father P●rsons M. Barlow must know that in Catholicke doctrine the state of a Bishop is of more perfection in it selfe ● then is the state of a Religious man and so he taking himselfe for such a one should haue shewed more modesty then F. Persons in case he had bene immodest as he was not But men gather not grapes from thornes nor from such religion such Bishops such spirits expect any other flowers or fruite then are wont to grow in such gardens to wit in the barren soile of ignorance pride and hereticall peruersity 134. Againe consider I pray you what regard is to be had to the Censures of these men which they passe vpon Catholike bookes that are set out against them For not knowing which way to turne themselues to answere they thinke it no ill policy to make the Reader belieue that they are of no worth the authors contemptible their proofes none at all This M. Barlow doth often M. Andrews also maketh his first entrance with the same to his last booke So likewise before them did M. Whitaker against the Rhemes Testament and M. Iewell against Doctor Harding which shamefull shift they neuer vse so much as when they know least what else to reply For proofe whereof if there were no other argument let their owne writing against vs be seen especially this answer of M. Barlow in which his charges are fierce frequent but when tryall is to be made he falleth eyther to forging of texts or corrupting of Authors or idle ignorant babling or to worse dealing as hath bene shewed On the contrary side we for cleerer euidence and vpright dealing charge him with no more then we do proue nor take any other proofe then what is deduced from his owne words or else plainly expressed by them that without any mutation addition chopping or any māner of wresting them to another sense meaning then they of their owne nature do beare M. Barlow himselfe when he wrote them did intend 135. Last of all if M. Barlow mislike that he is not stiled with a more honorable Ty●le as well in this Preface as in the Discussion Supplement besides that himself acknowledgeth it sufficiēt honour to haue the name Maister which saith he put to the Surname of any man is an addition of worship so we must tell him that we giue it not for that we find no ground or foūdation for the same For which cause neyther Harding against Iewell or Stapleton against Horne or others against other of the Superintendents haue bestowed other tytle then Maister as not acknowledging them to be any Byshops at all And for mine owne part I take M. Barlowes wife whether she be his Lady or Mistri● for the feminine sex to vse his owne words must predominate which way so●uer inclyned to be as much Bishop of Lincolne as he And albeit M. Barlow say in one place that sure Maister Iewell was as lawfull a Byshop as M. Bellarmine is a Cardinall and deserues the tytle as well surely I must tell him that he is much mistaken for so much as of Cardinall Bellarmins being Cardinall there can be no doubt seeing he was made by the Pope who only can euer yet hath made Cardinalls such as now we speake of But of M. Iewells being Byshop we haue not so much certainty yea we haue no certainty at all For who I pray you made him Who gaue him his Iurisdiction Who imposed hands vpon him What orders had they What Byshops were they 136. True it is that both He Sands Scory Hor●e Grindall and others if I mistake not their names in the beginning of the raigne of Q. Elizabeth mett at the Horse-head in Cheepside a fit signe for such a Sacrament and being disappointed of the Catholike Byshop of Landaffe who should there haue come to consecrate them they vsed the like art that the Lollards once did in another matter who being desirous to cate flesh on good friday and yet fearing the penalties of the lawes in such cases appointed tooke a pigge d●uing him vnder the water said downe pigge and vp pi●● and then after constantly auouched that they had eaten no flesh bu● fi●h So I say these graue Prelates assēbled as aforesayd seeing the Byshop whom