page 154 155 Their great presumption page 157 The Power of Boldness page 159 Some instances of the great Impudence of this man page 160 161 c. Of their smuity Discourse page 163 A wicked Suggestion page 166 Two of their Popular Arts page 168 169 How Smect dealt with Bishop Hall page 170 They abuse the Scripture as the ancient Hereticks did page 171 172 c. A Discourse of Dr. Jackson's on this subject page 174 c. W. B. misapplication of Scripture page 176 And others page 177 Their conceit of themselves page 179 198 And sottish abuse of holy words page 180 181 Impudent excuses they make rather than confess Errors page 181 182 186 Of pretences to Visions page 183 Another dangerous notion of W. B. page 185 Of Pretences to Revelations page 187 c. New Lights page 18â— How mild they are toward high offenders among themselves page 192 c The reason men so easily believe lies and asperse others page 195 And rake Libels for them page 19â— His wicked suggestions about Sacriledge page 201 20â— c His pitiful Apology for them page 20â— Mr. Udal's Book about Sacriledg page 20â— How they misimploy their thoughts page 2â—â— A wretched reasoning page 212 21â— How little they value the Peace of the Church page 21â— How much the Ancients valued it page 21â— The hard haerteduess of the N. C. page 216 21â— The lying and jugling of this Writer page 219 c Their aptness to complain page 2â—â— And self-love page 224 Another old trick of the disaffected page 225 c. Their undutiful and causeless clamours c. page 227 228 c. Deprivation for not Conforming to Publike Order is not Persecution page 234 235 c. Magistrates Power to appoint fit Instructers of his people page 237 238 Necessity of punishing those that do not conform page 240 c. The N. C. against so much as a connivance heretofore page 244 The peaceableness of the old N. C. when deprived page 247 Now they are like the Donatists page 250 Men murmur least when Laws are strictly executed page 251 The witlessness of Malice page 255 It is not Godliness but themselves which they contend for page 256 N.C. have acknowledged the Canting of some of their own party page 257 c. How Mr. Calvin and others have been belyed by furious zealots page 260 c. The wild Logick of Philag page 264 c. The Assembly slighted by themselves page 269 c. They love to abuse us in holy Language page 272 The wicked spirit among N. C. page 273 Several sorts of them page 275 Their proud conceit of the power of their Ministry page 278 c. Men grow worse when they become Separatists page 282 Their own Books inform us of a wicked generation among them page 286 c. Advantage the Papists make of their Schism page 289 c. Why called Precisians page 290 Philag his Character of the N. C. page 295 c. Lies and falshoods in his Preface page 298 c. Anotable instance page 302 303 c. Lawfulness and usefulness of Forms of Prayer maintained by Mr. Roger's page 307 308 c. A Form of his which they will not imitate now page 311 Their Prayers more dangerous page 312 Mr. Egerton's Advertisement about Prayer page 313 Dr. Preston's page 315 The newness of the contrary opinion and practice page 315 316 The spirit not straitned by a form of words page 317 Philag against himself page 319 Of the Lyes which are in his Book page 323. to 330 Particularly about Excommunication page 330 331 c. Of going to Plays page 334 to 339 The Ordinances of Parliament about them page 340 How he abuses good sense page 342 c. The N.C. could see and Act worse Plays than any are now page 346 c. Of Trading in Promises page 354 And absolute Promises page 355 c. Their Faith acknowledged sometime to have no ground page 357 c. Of eying the Glory of God page 359 c. Wretched Interpreters of Holy Scripture page 361 c. Of Desertions c. page 364 c. How they have debauched Religion page 367 368 Justifie abuse of Scripture page 369 c. Pretend to mysteries when they are none page 374 c. His vain babble about Experiences and other things page 376 c. Of Perverters of the Sense of Books page 378 c. Punishments contrived for me page 380 c. W. B. lowsie similitude page 382 Wit not to be sought page 384 c. Wrangling without cause page 388 Considerations about the making up our breaches page 391 c. Of Schism page 394 Scandal page 395 Presumption of this Writâ—â— page 396 c. And of his fellows page 398 399 What Praving by the Spirit page 403. ERRATA Page 25. line 2. read Caraculiambre p. 26 l. 16. for Landaf r. Caerleon p. 26. l. 1. add in the marg p 151. of Sober Answer p 60 l. 26. r. manner p. 75 l. 24. r. Sophisters is in him p. 142. marg r. Duplies p. 143. l. 13. d. and before nice p. 153. l. 1. r. and will l. 20. O ye p. 184. l. 19. r. wherewith p. 225 l 27. that they might p. 230. l. 4. r cravings p. 234 l. ult r. their Discipline p. 278. penult flatly deâ— p. 282. l. 20. r. pertly champer p. 285. l. 6. r. to sins p. 288. l. 25. r. Martin Mar Priest p. 31. l. 12. r. for the tooth p. 323. l. 2. d. as p. 325. 2. for from r. form p. 333. l. 14. r. Caracalla p. 34â— l. 22. r. the point p. 354. l. 19. r. Traders p. 355 l. 25. r. of it p. 356. l. 1. r. requires p. 361. l. 1. Dav. Kimchi p. 364. l. 5. r. desertions p. 367. l. â— r. melancholy patient p. 377. l. 8. r. so much p. 37â— marg r. Lord Seguier Chancellor c. p. 380. l. 11 d. I may be able A FURTHER CONTINUATION AND DEFENCE OF THE Friendly Debate N. C. NOw for an Ishmael C. Are you the Isaac's then against whom to speak a word is to scoffe at the Children of God And must we be all cast out like the bondwoman and her son to make room for you the Holy Seed N. C. I did but use the words of a late Writer who hath answered your two Debates p. 19. C. That hath snarl'd and carpt you should have said at some things in them which he did not understand and N. C. This is your old Pride C. It is one of your old Arts rather and wretched shifts to call men proud when you cannot confute them and when you have blotted a great deal of Paper with senseless or impertinent stuff boldly to cry it up for an unanswerable piece N. C. What Arts do you tell me of I know none we use but honesty and plain dealing C. We know a great many other which have alway stood you in mighty stead One is to extoll the men
Exposition of the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power C. I have heard indeed that many of you think he hath foil'd me there nay given me a deadly wound that cannot be healed Alas Good men I pitty his Ignorance very much and their credulity If bold Bayard to use the words of a learned Prelate t Bishop White Answer to a nameless Pamphlet 1637. Pag. 18. were armed with David 's spirit and fortitude who could stand before him But if hâ— whole strength consist in wording and facing only What can it avail an Ape to conceiâ—â— himself to be as strong as a Lyon Though he make a shew and fall on as if be would tear all in pieces he will fooâ— discover his weakness when you come to grapple with him I will close with him therefore if you please and try the force of this confident Gentleman And I will pass by his mis-representing my words because it is a thing so usual with him that he must have a pardon for it of course N. C. He will never believe it unless you shew it at least now that you first charge it on him C. If you will have it so then observe that he tells you u Pag. 9. I doubt that Minister is not spiritually inlightned who expounds those words otherwise than of the wonderful gifts of the Holy Ghost Which is false for I speak there x P. 5. of Fr. Debate of some other words of the Apostle viz. the spirits searching the deep things of God which the natural man cannot discern But though it be a bad Omen to stumble on the very Threshold yet this is a trifle in compare with the rest that follows For first there is not one of those Authors he cites as far as I can discern except the first whom we will examin by and by who understands by Power any thing else than the gift of Miracles and that was the thing I am there speaking of though he as his manner is slips it over Powerful not Spiritual Preaching By Spirit indeed some Interpreters understand something else besides the rest of extraordinary gifts which I mentioned N. C. Why do you say some the stream of Interpreters runs contrary to you C. I know he saith so p. 10. and it is a remarkable instance of his ignorant boldness For where I pray you doth this stream begin If you go up toward the Spring-head if I may so speak and follow the stream all along from the Apostles time as high as we can find it the current will prove to be against him But his stream begins at Peter Martyr who is the most ancient Writer that he hath perused An excellent person indeed but we ought not to go to him as the Fountain of our Knowledge not think our selves learned when we can alledg his Authority For this will be to make our selves as ridiculous as T.W. who Pâ—eaching about the Day of Judgment thus concludes his use of Perswasâ—on to Christians to believe this Truth Peter Mâ—rtyr tells us That some of the Heathen Poets have written that there are certain Judges appointed Minos Radamanthus and others to examine and punish offenders after this life y Morning Exercise Methadised Serm. 25. p. 615. 1660. Whereby I perceive Peter Martyr is the top of these two mens learning both for the Ancient Truth and the ancient Fables And yet I believe T. W. is not well skilled in Peter Martyr but added his others of his own head for we never read but of one judge more whose name if you will know it was Aeocus And before I have done I shall make this man also as sick of Peter Martyr as he was when he vomited save in your presence in my very face N.C. But what say you to Dr. Featly who leads up the front of the battle C. I see his Name but where shall I find his words N. C. In the Assemblies Annotations on the Bible C. The Authors of those he tells us not without a brag were N.C. p. 55. Now I am sure the Doctor was none and therefore either here or there he hath overshot himself I am afraid he will fall in love hereafter with that Figure which is so odious to him and if you please we will allow him the benefit of it and let him make himself whole with one of his hard words call'd Synecdoche Let us here what Dr. Featly says N. C. He preached so that his Doctrine wrought powerfully in the hearts of his Hearers This he gives us for the Apostles meaning C. But second thoughts are usually better than the first and he immediately adds which this man suppresses or by the Demonstration of the Spirit and Power he means the evident Confirmation of his Doctrine by the gifts of the Holy Ghost and the signs and wonders which he wrought among them And this indeed is the ancient Exposition to which he was pleased to Preface with that of some of the modern Writers For Origen N.C. Will you take no notice of Docto Hammond whom he also quotes C. There is no need if as this man tells us his Exposition be the same with â—â—igen's unless it be to shew how lamely â—e reports it For his Opinion is that by the Demonstration of the Spirit may be meant not only the proof of Christian Religion from the old Prophecies which I must tell you was by an infallible Spirit bestowing an extraordinary gift call'd Prophesying and mention'd by me in my short Paraphrase but also the descent of the Spirit on our Saviour at his Baptism accompanied with the voice from Heaven together with the Spirits descending afterward on the Apostles and by their Imposition of hands on others also This together with the power of doing Miracles he tells you may be lookt upon as the Demonstration of the Truth of the Gospel and be the thing that is here meant I can see therefore no difference between him and me As for Origen I shall go for his Opinion only to himself And I remember very well that he tells us over and over again there is a Demonstration belonging to the Christian Religion which is proper and peculiar to it self A Demonstration more Divine as he speaks z Lib. 1. contra Celsum than that of the Greeks by Logick and Syllogistical Discourse in other places he adds or by Rhetorick and it is this which the Apostle calls the Demonstration of the Spirit and of Power Of the Spirit by Prophecies which were sufficient a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. to work faith in him that met with them especially in those things which concern Christ and of Power by the prodigious and astonishing works which were certainly done as appears from this Argument among many others that there are some footsteps of them remaining among those who live according to the Will of the Word Where by Prophesie if you understand barely the ancient Scriptures it is plain they were not sufficient to work
1648. pag. 6. But you can wink when you list at those things among your selves which you call by all the odious names you can invent when you do but fansie them in another man Being very much like the Lamiae whom you have heard of I make no doubt the story is so common who carried their eyes in their head when they were abroad and at home closed them up in a box We may not so much as smile at your affected language no not reprove your canting and gross abuse of Scripture phrases if we do you say we are profane scurrilous blasphemous and what not but you may abuse the most innocent things and sport with them as much as you are able and this passes for pleasant discourse and sanctified wit There was a very sober and discreet Petition for instance from the County of Kent to the House of Commons k Printed with many other by order from his Majesty 20. May. 1642. in which after their thanks for those excellent Laws which they had obtained from his Majesties goodness they prayed among other things that they might enjoy the solemn use of the Liturgy quiet and free from interruption scorns prophaness threats and force and that Episcopal Government might be preserved Papists suppressed differences concerning Religion and Ceremonies determined in a Lawful free and National Synod c. In short there is not one offensive word in it but only Liturgy and Bishops which brought all those scoffs on it which were wont to be thrown on them A grave person as he would seem to be by his Book l Late Covenant asserted 1643. pag. 24. entertained you with a mock Petition after this dull fashion Humbly sheweth That since it was well with your Petitioners when like People like Priest they would go to the Alehouse with us and we could offer cakes to the Queen of Heaven N. C. Now you mock him in Scripture phrase C. They are his own words I assure you and you cannot but know how much your people love to abuse us in the Holy language and to pick out such expressions as may signifie us to be Idolaters Philagathus himself is so used to it that he doth it even when he doth not know it as I charitably believe W. B. saith he would not have said a word of the Bowl and the Pottage Had he been to prâ—phesie at Bethel or at the King's Chappel as Amos speaketh m Sober Answer p. 264. that is at Whitehall where one would imagine the Golden Calves are set up and worshipped N. C. He had no such meaning I am confident C. It 's well if others do not so expound it who know your usual meaning in such like words But let us go on with the other Gentleman Our hearty petition saith he is that you would be pleased to give us our Bishops again who thought no more of preaching than a Cobler of plowing and had no more care of Souls than of their old shooes and our Service Book so full of good Prayers which we can say as our Parson doth though half asleep or quite drunk and that we may have leave to be drunk and dance on Sundayes a time designed by our good Bishop for that purpose N. C. O abominable No more I pray you C. There is enough to show the wickâ—d Spirit that was then among you Onâ—â— for a more full demonstration of it I â—â—all add that after he had mockt as â—â—dg as he thought good then he thinks 〈◊〉 sanctifie all at the last with a little â—â—nking breath which he spends in a few â—â—ghs saying twice or thrice Poor Souls â—â—â—r Souls If my head were a Fountain I could weep over these and if my heart were as it should be i. e. not full of laughter at them I would sigh â—â—t my words Poor Souls Poor Souls Nay thus he jeers at His Majesties most solâ—â—â— Protestation which he made at the tâ—king of the Holy Sacrament before the Primate of Ireland and all the Company then present N. C. For Gods sake forbear you cannot grieve our hearts more then 〈◊〉 remember any scorn cast upon so sacreâ— a person C. The great pride and insoleâ—â— which this man discovers still to remâ—â— among you makes me think it necessâ—â— to call these things to your mind Bâ—t will let that instance alone unless 〈◊〉 continued Folly call for it N. C. You should not impute tâ—â— faults of some to all as you have 〈◊〉 through your whole Book C. That 's another instance of his disâ—â—genuity who will take no notice of thâ— distinction I often made between soâ—â— men and the rest But will needs sayâ— accuse all even there where I expreâ—â— say some as you shall hear before 〈◊〉 end The truth is this Phil. is so 〈◊〉 that he writes in many places as 〈◊〉 had said nothing unless I had writ a Book on purpose against him It is enough he thinks to silence me to say I never preached to my remembrance one Sermon of that strain n Page 284. 280. 282. and many other places I was never one of those flatterers I have urged that advice several years past Just as if he had a Saints Bell in his pocket as your old friend Martin said to another o Martin Marprelat Protestation when one of his Books was taken in the Press I hope you will not be offended at his words crying ting ting ting And what doth it ting my modesty my moderation my peaceableness my Charity p Sobeâ— Answ p. 143. 144. 225. Nothing but my my my As if he was some Universal Nature of whom all the particular N. C. did pertake He might at least have considered that there are several degrees of those who differ from us and that they are so many that no man can in one breath mention them â—ll They were above threescore years ago most ingeniously painted and likeâ—ed to Anacreons q A Sermon at St. Pauls Cross 1 Nov. 1607. by S. Collins fond loves Some of which were perfect some Pipient some â—â—acht some half hatcht some peering â—â—t of the Egg some riper in the Chick â—hilst others had the strength to flye nimâ—â—y away All of them have this quality â—o despise us and think we know little 〈◊〉 nothing of the Mystery of Godliness or want the power of it but some in their opinions are further others a lesser way from us Now there is nothing in my Book which the N. C. speaks whatsoever this man boldly talks but some or other of them alledge against us or reply to us though every one doth not object or answer every thing therein mentioned As for those who are sorry for our breaches and dislike the furious and factious Crew who scorn and revile us all that I had to say to them was as you may remember to desire them to separate themselves from that Herd by frequenting the publick worship of God disclaiming their unlawful practices opposing their bold
know very well that many men who are converted to you are so far from being good that they become worse than they were before More haughty and conceited of themselves more unmannerly to their betters disobedient to their Masters and Governours unbridled in their language unpeaceable and troublesome to their neighbours It is an easie matter to say I wrong you but I know what I say and others have said it before me It is an old observation of Mr. R. Bernards c Separatists schism p. 29.30 1608. That as soon as ever men enter into the way of separation immediately they grow peremptory and though never so simple yet presently they see the truth without any study and can partly champer against us and condemn us all for false Christians and false Churches Nay they are so bewitched with that way that they are nothing like themselves in what was good and laudable in them Before humble and tractable then proud and wilfull before they could find the word work and themselves moved by our preaching but afterward they judg the Minister to have lost the power of his Ministry because they themselves are in affection altered blaming the Teacher when the fault is in themselves They can with understanding judge between cause and cause reason and reason but then they lick up all which comes from themselves as Oracles be they never so absurd And have we not all seen how light they all make of this great sin of Separation The N. England Ministers themselves complain That there is scarce any truth or error now a days can be received but it is maintained in a way of Schism directly contrary to the gathering and uniting Spirit of Jesus Christ d Mr. Allen and Mr. Shepherd Defence of the 9 positions p. 27. And what should be the reason think you that men are so ready to follow this evil Spirit that is in the world but that they have no sense of spiritual wickednesses nay look upon Divisions Separations and all the evil consequences of them not only as innocent but holy things While the Devil as Mr. Greenham e Grave Counsels and Godly observations p. 37. well observes Was known only by horns and claws or by the hollow voice he was wonderfully feared but being now revealed to be a more secret Adversary a spiritual Tempter a privy overthrower of Souls no man almost regards him And therefore as some have feared him too superstitiously so now it is come to a more dangerous extremity that he is not feared at all He enters into mens hearts securely and they are not aware of it He rules and domineers there and they rejoyce at it thinking they are full of the Spirit of God O how happy would it be if all would labour to throw this Devil out which possesses too many Pride high conceit of their own knowledge glorying in their gifts crowing over others as carnal or moral men together with all the rest of his company which I have mentioned This would be a better work than to perswade them they are already converted when they are become Proselytes to a party and too many of them as far as we can see by their fruits like those made by the Pharisees who were no less laborious and perhaps successful than your selves N. C. You are mistaken we do not call this Conversion to become N. C. C. You may speak for your self and such as you know very well for too many do They glory in the Conversion of those who have only changed their Vices not their Natures and of prophane or neglectors of Religion are become Schismatical proud censorious and highly presuming of their knowledge which they have got in a moment in one word have exchanged the sins of the flesh for those of the Spirit Tertullians f Pervenimus de calcaria in Carbonarium L. de carne Christi Cap 6. words are an exact description of them if you do but invert the Proverb They go out of the Cole-pit into the Lime-kill where though they become white yet they remain still dirty and defiled And look how much these excell other men in zeal and earnestness in height of fancy and warmth of affection in fluency of speech and notable strains of Devotion in so much the worse condition they are As men in a frenzy saith Irenaeus g L. 1. Cap 13. pag. 54. out of Hippâ—â—rates the more they laugh and appear to be vigorous and strong doing all things like men in health nay somethings above what any sound men can do so much the more dangerous is their disease in like manner the higher these people are in their own thoughts the greater store they have of Religious heat the more vehemently they bend their thoughts and strain their unpurged Souls drawing the Arrow as he speaks beyond the Bow the less wise they are or rather the more mad and furious and the more unlikely ever to return to any sobriety of mind I would not for all the World be guilty of that Envy which this ill-natur'd Adversary would make you believe I am infected withall I rejoyce I thank God not only that men are made truly good whosoever be the instrument of it but that they are made wiser and better than my self Yet I am taught for all that by your own Books to lessen the number of such Converts as this man braggs of For they have informed us for many years of an evil generation that have separated from us in whom as one of them tells us h Fountain of Slander opened p. 25. 1649. you shall see Christ and Belial God and Mammon in one and the same person Christ in show and the other in reality They let themselves loose to lying and dissimulation slandering and backbiting and all kind of circumvention God Religion Reason Virtue are but meer termes and notions with them serving them to no other purpose but to deceive the more effectually And that particular of lying is confirmed by Mr. H. Peters himself who to cry quit with those among you that exclaimed against the Army as guilty of many Crimes said there are some other diseases as much considerable among others which may be of greater influence and the last he mentions is a spirit of lying and false Witness bearing even to the undervaluing of our enjoyments i A word to the Army and two words to the Kingdom 1647. pag. 9. Much more I could relate to this purpose from some of your own mouths which if it should have been writ by any of us I know what you would have said of us N. C. Truly you have said too much to gratifie the common Enemy and so far saith Philag k Preface pag. 10. as a man may gather from your Book you would sooner promote a Cassandrian design viz. of Union betwixt Protestants and Papists than that betwixt C. and N. C. For you instigate Rulers to much severity against N. C. but never against Papists C.
protest but the naughty humour of such men as these Otherways it is a great confirmation of the strength of my Book that he is fain to make lies his refuge that he may make a show of a confutation And as the blind we say swallow many a fly so will you I doubt many a ly For if you follow him to p. 144. He will tell you that the passages which I quote concerning their railing and bitterness against us are but few when the contrary is apparent He himself within two pages d pag. 146. takes notice of others besides those few which he here mentions Nay he sinds one more then I named to that purpose whom he calls one of the Malcas's Who was not quoted for any speeches against those by whose decree he was cropt who it seemes were Apostolical men according to the state of this resemblance but for bitter words against your selves It is some thing strange that they being so few if you believe him whom I cited he could not name them right But I am fain he saith to look back as far as 1642. for some of them and as far as 1621. for others that is for one which insinuates that I could not or did not cite many of later dayes Both which are false for I noted several passages out of Mr. Bridg printed within these two years wherein he plainly makes us Antichristian and the Prelates all one with the Beast N. C. Pray repeat them not nor name any more C. Which I can as easily do as show the loudness of thar ly that we began with them first e Against which Mart. Mare-prel is a witness p. 146. and the nakedness of that excuse for their tailing from the general conflagration of Church Government p. 145. As if that could be a provocation to them when they had desired and contrived it themselves and clapt their hands at the flames Witness the great expressions of joy and glorying which we then heard and his own acknowledgment when he tells you they were as firebrands newly pluckt out of the Fire f pag 146. which deliverance it seemes in stead of provoking their thanksgivings to God inraged their spirits to throw about firebrands arrows and death These were very great Saints without all doubt who deserved his Apology and may in good time come into the catalogue of Martyrs N. C. I believe he would only try what he could say for them C. Like a true Sophister who I am afraid strained his Conscience a little to make excuses for that which he knew was too black to be blanched and therefore I less wonder that he makes bold with it that he may be able to calumniate me Making you believe that I would perswade the people that there is nothing of true Religion in a sincere aptness and promptness to good discourse p. 171. a most horrid ly And that they may be better imployed the mean time p. 172. Where he is at his old trade of curtailing my sentences for I did not positively say that they might be better studying other things but only upon supposal that they did not understand what they said g Sec Friendly Deb. pag. 179. Which shows what an inclination this man hath to falsify and how vain he is in going about to make me contradict my self and also how much nearer he is to madness or some thing else than he thinks me For in fine be pronounces that I say Heavenly discourse may be spared or let aleâ—e p. 186. Such another forgery is that Paâ—ciple which he saith seemes to be mine that no man can love another but in the sight and upon the account of a reward p. 192. Which is as true as that I was the Aggressor and first set upon the N. C. h pag. 290. and that my Books have been magnified as if they deserved to be bound up if not with the Bible yet with the Liturgy i pag. 291. N. C. Why did not you fall upon them before they meddled with you C. No. I only vindicated and defended our Church and Ministers from the odious aspersions cast upon them by words and writings as if they were Antichristian Babylonish Apostatical Superstitious formal and without the power of Godliness N. C. You did more than so C. That is in defending myself who am a Member of this Church and other men I turned the charge upon you and that is called an Assault But it is very new reformed language For I never heard that they who defended themselves though they gave a wound to their Enemy were accused of any crime Surely as the Scotch Gentleman saith k Modest Conference 1669. pag. 63. You who have been so much for desensive Armes may at least allow us to defend our selves as well as we can with our Tongues and Pens N. C. I 'le give you leave to do any thing if you will but make an end C. You shall be troubled with no more upon this head then these two things the one about excommunication the other about playes N. C. It 's well you bring them to my mind I thought to have askt you about those very things He tells us of Lay-Thunders and Lay-dispensers of Excommunications who are the nimblest at casting abroad the Thunderbolts p. 240. C. He doth so and deserves to be soundly ratled for that Calumny There are no Lay-men who excommunicate any body as he might have learnt if he had been a careful Student from a substantial Book It is the Answer l Printed at Oxford 1603. pag. 21 22. of the Vice-chancelour and Doctors c. of the University of Oxford to the Petition of certain Ministers desiring Reformation when King James came to the Crown Among other Enormities in Discipline which they complained of this was one that Excommunication came forth in the name of lay persons Chancellors Officials c. To which the reply was that suppose it true yet the Chancellor or Commissary is not a lay man in this case the Ordinary and he are but one Judg or rather whatsoever he doth in this behalf he doth it in the Authority of the Ordinary according to the power committed to him A thing not unusual in the civil state wherein the Lord Chancellor doth dispose of many things which are originally in the King c. But secondly no lay Chancellor or Commissary what soever doth at any time excommunicate any man or sends out in his own name any excommunication For this is the practise of the Church of England in the censuring of notorious and more grievous crimes the Arch-Bishop the Bp. the Dean the Arch-Deacon or a Prebendary that is a Priest pronounceth the Sentence in his own Person And in matters of less offence as contumacy in not appearing or the like the Vicar General Official or Commissary that is not in Holy Orders holds this course First upon knowledg and examination of the cause he adjudges the pâ—rty worthy to be excommunicated
Norfolk wherein a Woman was presented who doting upon a young Gentleman had the more securely to enjoy his affection secretly murdered her Husband whose Ghost haunted her and at divers times in her most solitary retirements stood before her there was a Towns-woman till then of good repute who finding her Conscience at this sight extreamly troubled suddenly shreeked and cryed out O my Husband my Husband I see the Ghost of my Husband fiercely threatning and menacing me At which shrill unexpected out-cry the people about her being amazed they enquired the reason of it When presently without any further urging she told them that not seven years ago to be possessed of such a Gentleman whom she named she had poysoned her Husband whose fearful Image personated it self they are the words of my Author m Mr. Tho. Heywood the Actors Vindic. Book third in the shape of that Ghost This she also voluntarily confessed before the Justices and was condemned for it of all which there were many eye-witnesses besides the Actors living a little before this was written n In King James his reign as appears by the Book N. C. So Conscience it seems hath been awakened at a Play No wonder then you say one of W. B 's Sermons is no better than a Play o Pag. 187. C. I have left off now to wonder that he makes no Conscience of what he saith This I have shown you is a forgery of his own which he hath further improved in his Preface into these lying words which you heard before One of his Sermons is not so good as a Play p Pag. 20. He hath a dispensation it should seem to write as he list by which means he is able to confute any Book even the Bible it self It is but changing the words and leaving out some or putting in others according to his liking and then they are for his purpose to declaim against Of this Legerdemain there are so many instances in his Book that they alone are sufficient to make a Volumn if I should go about to discover them all If I say it would not be amiss that their folly were a little chastised who fancy they are persecuted when they are not q Friendly Debate p. 190. He shall tell you that I say They who fancy themselves persecuted ought to be chastised r P. 256. of his Answ If I say you account him a painful Preacher f Friendly Debate p. 194. who preaches often he shall say that I make you confess you call him a plain Preacher who preaches often As if we were so silly saith he as to think that to preach plainly and to preach often were the same thing t P. 267. of his Answ Would not one think either that this man could not read or read with other mens eyes or else come to ill-disposed and with such naughty affections that they disturbed his light It is painful Preachers as clear as can be in my Book and plain Pâ—eachers as manifestly in his He is like those people in Lucian u In his true Hist Book first that had eyes to take in and out as they pleased themselves or when they had lost their own eyes borrowed of other men He sees nothing I mean but what he pleases and like the most of you can be satisfied to believe others and not see for himself N. C. You have made hast to get to the end of his Book I perceive notwithstanding your high charge he is not much to blame in such like matters C. These offered themselves most readily to my thoughts but if you have a mind to go further back with all my heart N. C. You shall not lead me through the whole Book if the labour be so tedious as you tell me C. I protest as Bishop Hall doth x Postscript to the desence of the humble Remonstrance in another case that I never saw any writer that would dare to profess Christian sincerity so fouly to overlash and so shamefully to corrupt and pervert anothers words as he doth as if he made no Conscience by what means he upholds a side or wins a Proselyte He would have you think for instance that I maintain that the Gospel cherishes fear more than the Law p. 41. when I only said that a Christian is moved by fear as well as hope and that the things which the Gospel threatens us withal are more terrible than the threatnings of the Law This is the manifest scope of my discourse and I still maintain it to be true that a man may be of an Evangelical Spirit who is moved to do his duty out of a fear of what Christ threatens as much as out of a hope of what he promises Nay I do not see but one may have an Evang. Spirit who is moved more by such fear than he is by hope though that was not the thing I undertook to make good It was only this that it is not a just Character of a gospel-Gospel-Spirit that it is put on rather by promises than threatnings This I said and still say is false which is not to affirm as he would have it that the Gospel cherishes fear more than hope but that it cherishes them equally or rather that one may be a good Christian who is moved as much by the one as by the other By this you see either how dull and stupid he is or how maliciously disposed who cannot understand so plain a discourse And yet he would have you think he is so sagacious and hath so good a Nose that he can smell y Pag. 42 I smell what you would be at c. my thoughts even then when he mis-reports my words you make saith he as if the Mosaical spirit did fear only temporal calamities upon Body and Goods c. That word only is his own not mine as you may see if you will compare our Books together though I must tell you all that he hath said to overthrow that position is of no more force than a small puff of wind for they might and I doubt not did know under the Old Testament that there was a life to come of misery and happiness though it was not declared by Moses his Law And so the meer Mosaical Legal Spirit which we spoke of may truly be said to fear only those calamities which were threatned by that carnal commandment But he hath not done yet He makes you believe that I deny the Legal dispensation to be terrible and the Gospel comfortable p. 44. which is a gross abuse for my position was that this is not the difference between the dispensations that the one is terrible and the other comfortable because both are terrible and knowing the terror of the Lord the Apostles perswaded men This he could not but see and therefore to make work for himself pulled my words asunder And as he could not find in his heart to speak a word of the Impertinances I noted
that may have a fair interpretation though I must tell you he carps and wrangles with me without any cause in the world Of which vice I must give you some instances according to my promise in the beginning and because it is very late they shall be but two which ly also very near together Mention being made in the Friendly Debate of three sorts of N. C. the last of which as you may see p. 206. c. are said to be between both he quarrels because they were not placed in the middle being a middle sort of men between the two Extreams and by the middle we must come at the Extreames y See his Book pag. 218. And yet this is the very man who in another case gives advice quite contrary to this and reasons too why the middle should come last The Building of the City I mean he would have begin at both ends where it stai'd for every body knows mark his words z Rebuild of London Discourse 19. p. 128. that it is better to proceed from extreams to the middle for virtue is in the middle to build first at both ends or extreams of the City and so to proceed to the middle from the two poles as it were to the Center N. C. I did not think men could cross themselves on this fashion C. Nothing more easy when they are resolved to be cross to others in every thing N. C. It seemes there is one rule for building of Cities and another for building of Books if you will let me so speak C. As you please But he crosses this rule he hath made for me once more in that Book For when he had told us of two Proverbs nothing venture nothing have and venture all and lose all both which sometimes proves true he then brings us to the middle way which he saith is best neither venture all nor venture nothing but venture something though not all a Discourse 40. p. 245. N. C. I begin to feare he hath an itch of finding fault where there is none for how should a man know what the middle between two extreames is till he first know them C. It 's well that I can extort that little confession from you Look a little further and tell me what you think of that passage p. 220. where upon occasion of my desiring those Ministers who are not against the Common-Prayer that they would instruct the People in the Truth and bring them to a modest and peaceable temper in order to a compliance with us he tells me in a jeering way Sir they are your journey-men and you may command them what you please or rather your poor Apprentices c. as if I desired them to do us service which God knows was not in my thoughts and not to serve the Truth and Peace of the Church of Christ This is mere perversness of spirit and argues he did not read or write with a good mind but studies more to keep up a party than to promote true Christian Religion N. C. However he tells you they can do nothing for the making up the breach Some have tried to satisfy the People about joyning in a Form of Prayer c. and it will not do p. 223. C. He speaks diffidently and saith Some it may be have tried But let us take it for a certainty and since you mention it let me say a few things briefly to it First he acknowledges then the gross ignorance and stupidity of your People which I told you of the last time who will sooner joyn with Quakers as he saith more than once b p. 15. and 227. than with us of the Church of England For that is his argument against perswading them to be reconciled to us that the next news we may hear of them shall be that they have joyned themselves to the Anabaptists or to the Quakers c. But Secondly it would be duly considered and sadly laid to heart how they came by these prejudices and antipathies against so sober a way of worshipping God as is among us Let those mis-zealous men saith Bp. Hall c Answer to the Vindication of Smectym Paragr 13 who have infused these distastes into well meaning Soules See how they will answer it at the great day to the Judg of quick and dead Surely if the case were mine I should fear it would fall heavy upon my Soul Thirdly let them all come back themselves to our Congregations though they cannot bring the people with them They will thereby do what in them lies to take away the scandal they have given and they will also leave those people who when the humour takes them may leave them and run to the wild sects where still they may enjoy more Liberty It was a good Memento of Mr. Greenhams to Brown when he first separated from our Church that he hoped he might be better informed and return again to us but he bid him bethink himself what would become of those poor Souls whom he had seduced and were carried away who might run further and further from us but never be reclaimed His words proved true for Brown returned and died a Member of the Church of England but his Sect remains to the great disturbance of it to this day It had been well if all your Ministers of this generation had thought of this and so not begun to lead away so many Souls into a mischievous Schism who may never be restored but as it is if they cannot reduce them let them come back themselves and not be worse than the Father of the Separation And Fourthly I have hope hereby that they may do some good whatsoever this man saith upon the better part of your People if they set themselves to it unanimously and with all their heart For what cannot be done by one man alone whose unsuccessful labours be untruly talks of might be done to great purpose if all were of the same pious mind and joyned in the same good work by Doctrine and Example declaring that neither they nor their Predecessors ever held there were any such foul corruptions in our Worship or Government as should be a just ground for Separation And Lastly if there be no hope at all of this what makes this Gentleman talk of an Accommodation and Union between C. and N C. and that a purpose of it seemed to be as it were publishing very lately d Preface p. 9. Sure he knows not the meaning of those words or else contradicts himself which it is as easie for him to do as it is to write N. C. That word Schism which you mentioned just now is harder to understand than Union For he seems to plead the same reason for our Separation from you which is alledged for your Separation from Rome C. That 's one of his miserable shifts and excuses which he makes for things that are sinful Is he so little a Divine as to think we separated from the Church of Rome
required a competent knowledge of the Will of God revealed in the Holy Scriptures where the matter of our Prayers is already declared to us by Gods Spirit Next of all an orderly and distinct apprehension of those things which we know then a firm memory to keep them in mind and in that order A ready invention also that we may find out what is most proper on all occasions together with an easie utterance and fluent expression All these are to be improved by use and exercise and when this gift is to be exercised in the presence of others some degree of confidence and boldness is necessary either from Nature or acquired by frequent practice And the greater the company is and the more unacquainted we are with them that we pray withal the more of that quality last named is necessary for him that makes the Prayer If any of these be wanting either there is no such Gift or it is very lame and defective as Mr. Egerton observed it was not only in many of the common people who thought they had it when they had it not but in some Reverend and worthy Ministers too who knowing they had it not alwayes used a set Form of words both in the Church and in their private Families And were men furnished with so much piety and learning that he could hardly prefer any other men before them d Pract. of Christianity p. 690. They that have a solid and clear understanding but no more have no such gift as this If there be superadded a good Memory but no quick Invention and Words ready to follow it they will find themselves at a loss or confused sometimes even when no body hears them And so may those who have all these if they have not withal got a habit of speaking fitly by frequent exercise Nay they that have this habit if they be too bashful may find their gift fail them before a great Congregation On the other side we find that they who have little understanding and are indued only with a Memory are wont to pray over the same phrases and put together the several heads of a Sermon sometime in one order sometime in another and that is all As for the men of brisker Imagination better Memories and whose tongues are well hung though of a shallow Judgment they will make a fairer shew and please themselves and others with variety of expressions and conceits when the matter is very mean and many times but their private opinions turn'd into Petitions But as for them who beside their weak Memories and want of understanding are of a slow invention or expression and have only boldness and confidence equal to other mens knowledg and judgment they will either hum and haw or use endless tautologies or speak non-sense or piece it out with certain words which shall make a part in the beginning end and middle of every Sentence Whereby by it is apparent that very excellent men may wholy want this Gift and others of little worth may have much of it such as it is Nay that men of great holiness may be without it and bad men have it to admiration For if they have furnished themselves with notions and laid them togetherin a method and can hold them fast so as they are disposed in their Memories and readily run to them suddenly produce them fit expressions to them and be daunted with nothing they may ravish the people and themselves too though they have little or no sense of God and goodness He also that is but dull and slow may be more ready and brisk when his fancy is heated and find things coming faster before him and presenting themselves in that order wherein they lay in his mind so that one part of his Prayer shall be more taking than the other But all this is nothing of the Spirit of Prayer which consists in such things as I told you at the first and must not now repeat nor is it praying by the Spirit neither as any man may see that hath not a mind to deceive himself or others It is not denyed but that when a good man seriously sets himself to meditate the Holy Spirit of God may and I believe doth oftentimes set things in better order before his mind than he could cast them into himself and brings withal some things to his mind which he had forgot and not only excites those passions and affections in him which are sutable to what he intends to ask of God or thank him for but raises him extraordinarily above himself and yet all this will not amount to a praying by the Spirit but only by it's assistance Whereby a man who hath a gift of extemporate speech sometimes excels all that ever he delivered before and yet no man will say he spoke by the Spirit I must add also that notwithstanding this assistance of the Divine Spirit it is most certainly true that many have spoken to the astonishment of their hearers as I can prove from certain stories which you perhaps are not acquainted with who were not moved by the Holy Ghost at all and other Devout men who have the Spirit of God as much as any after all their premeditation and digesting things in their mind have not been able to make such prayers nor found any such assistance as this man would have us depend upon to bring that matter on a sudden to their mind which they had forgot or not thought upon I have endeavoured to explain my mind as briefly and perspicuously as I could about this business in which notwithstanding I know a man of ill will may find some word or other to snarl and cavil at But if this man think good to continue still in that humour I shall throw one bone in his way for him to gnaw a little upon which may perhaps something a bate the edge of his fury It is the words of a great man dissatisfied with many things in our Church who writing upon occasion concerning this matter confesses a great part of the most distastful things that I have said and upon his own experience Now what Worship saith he or prayers do you use I am ashamed to name the boldness and folly of some who scarce able to utter three words orderly will yet take upon them to babble out a tedious and stuttering prayer where in every tenth word shall be the repeating of O heavenly Father O merciful Father O deare Father O good God O merciful God c. and also so foolishly packed together that their praying seems rather to be the prating of an infant that would tell some great tale but cannot hit it Thus far the Reformer and yet he saith not all as my Author e Dr. Bancrofts Sermon at the Cross 1588. p. 23 addes for sometimes they will so wander either by error or malice in framing their prayers answerable to their affections which are oftimes malitiously bent against any thing or matter where with they are