either keep me still from you or split me wth you LA. Wt shall we do wth you Sr Harry sith you decline scripture wch as it is the purest so t is the easiest way for your conversion VIC Shall I tell you he wil even go out of his way as Balam and his ass did I le show you the story as t is written in 22 chapter of numbers t is a very pretty one Ther you wil see how the ass confuted his rider and said unto him Am not I thine ass so prettily Read here from the 22 vers to the 36. If you go not in the right way Sr Harry as we would have you be sure you shall be checkt by a very ass When any such thing happens you may take it for a certaine sign that you ar out of your way KN. Scriptur is a good instrument to drawn men from paganisme to Christianity but no fit means to divert us from Catholik Religion to heresy That heavenly seed wch makes sons of God can never make children of perdition except it self be mischievously corrupted And therfore I decline it not at all but admit allow and embrace it as containeing that irrefragable doctrine wch eminent persons in the church of God penned wch industrious and religious persons in the same Catholik church coppied transcribed wth their owne hands above a thousand years together before printing was invented to keep that sacred letter alive and lastly wch by the Catholik body of the said Church hath beene authenticated and canonised and therfore it must needs be pure and holy being madâ— conserud and ratified by holy Church But its facility and easinesse that I do not so easily conceive or agree unto especially if you separate it from the Church whose book it is The mind and meaning of any writing no man can understand so well as the Authour no man can interpret aright contrary to the Authour no man where it is obscure and uncouth may peremptorily interpret wthout the Authour MIN. You will soon grant it to be easy if you consider that t is called a light to the understanding Wt thing is there more apparent than light And therfore t is said in the Ephesians if our Gospell be hid t is hid to them that are lost VIC Sweet heart you are mistaken that sayeing is not in the Ephesians but Corinthians 2. Ep. and the 4. c. LA. T is no matter Mr person so we find out your riddle tho it be by plowing wth your heyfer according to the saying of Samson Iud. 14. VIC I told you even now Madam that the ass will rebuk his rider when he goes astray KN. A light if it be set behind us or under a bushell or to an eye ill affected inlightens not and a prejudiced mind is a veyld understanding where light cannot enter I must say more he that goes out of the Church puts out his own eyes and he that never enterd in never had any but gropes in darknes Light is come into the world saith our Lord but men love darknes more than light Jo. 1. namely because they shut their eyes against it and no marvell that unto such the Gospell should be hid Catholikes all of them have indeed the whole Gospell by heart and comprehendit sufficiently for the life and spirit of it yet still the bark and letter of it hath obscurity enough wch is opend and manifested as far as is needfull upon occasion by the lips of priests wch preserve knowledg No man understands the mind of man but the spirit that is in man nor the meaning of scriptures can any comprehend but the spirit of that Catholik body whose the scriptures be For these be imediatly the word and doctrin of the Church and therfore called the Word of God because that Catholik body from whence it issued is animated by the spirit of Jesus Christ her naturall head who is God blessed for ever and the particular penmen therof being members of the sayd church were peculiarly illustrated by that spirit unto such an effect So then the word of God is a light and enlightens good Catholiks it enlightens not others that remain blinded in infidelity and separated from that holy mysticall body of Christ and yet t is a light still t is hid to them that are lost People that live in a family colledg or corporation by the daily sight and practis of things to be don therin do fully comprehend all that is to be said or acted there But others who be out of those societys shall never by bare reading of books written of such emploiments so long as themselves stay out attain to any satisfactory light therof but remain pusled in a wood of dark words and either mistake or not apprehend the reality and truth of things So our people wthin the Church see distinctly and clearly the truths of God in whose practis they are daily conversant so that words and writtings are not necessary unto such as be in a continuall exercise of their trade but sectaries paymins al infidels who be aliens and strangers to this Society out of the family altho they should look upon their book of statutes scripturs or laws yet will they still be pusling about words and never clearly understand the secrets of the profession One artist or tradesman knows more by heart and practise than the whole world besides that is out of that body or not conversant in the society can ever attain unto by reading A man may demonstrat by Philosophicall reason that light it self enlightens not but by reflexion no more do the word and scripturs except they reflect upon us from the bosom of the Catholik body wch actuats them in their operation If you would seriously ponder these few words you should quickly perceive unto whom the scriptures be obscure and unto whome they be easy and how they be easy to Catholiks for the practise life and meaning of them tho the letter may still keep its obscurity as children of a family may clearly understand all the whol affaires and businesses of the house tho if books should be written therof they might not so easily understand the letter of those books Yet these have great advantage in the understanding of such books abov those who are not coversant in the affairs being aliens and strangers to the family For t is easier by the knowledg perfect comprehension of things to understand words that be written of them than by reading of words to perceiv things we are altogether unexperienced in But to speak abstractively of the letter of Scriptur wthout reference unto persons as if the case were that neither you nor I ever knew any thing of the Christian religion but what we get out of the Bible or new Testament put now into our hands Could either of us or all of us together see clearly in this letter the whole state of the Catholick Church or without obscurity discern wt is to be
for it and all kind of obscurity contrary to such an end But to conclude If Scriptur be indeed so clear and easy for each capacity to read out of them to cull his faith and by them to frame his religion as sectaries pretend and this be indeed the judgment of all reformers wherfore do they themselves so multiply their catechists interpretours and expositours theron to wt end is all their preaching and weekly teaching this if it be indeed to any end must needs be either to expound faith or promote good works if the faith be clear enough the expounding is in vain as for good works they be long ago exploded bannisht out of the land and the empty preaching for aught I know may go foot it after them for words are in vain that tend to no end In fine whence comes all these diversities of opinions amōgst us here in England about matters of faith and religion and so opposit one to another and yet all grounded upon Scriptur Is that way so uniform and easy that leads men so diversly Nor am I satisfied at all in hearing som answer as they do that this coms not of Scriptur but the disorder and mistakes of men so lōg as I see it may wthout the Churches help be so shreudly mistaken I have reason to suspect mistakes in my self too if I once lean upon mine own spirit and industry as others do being my self no better than my neighbours And therfore I am loth nay I shall never be perswaded to leav the secure footing I now hav in all tranquillity peace uniformity wth the Catholik body of Gods Church by the result of truth delivered us by antiquity consonant to Gods word both written and unwritten and run my self with the confusd rout of disagreeing sectaries upon the rock of the Bible so apt as it appears by the event to be mis-understood and and wrested awry that I am clear of the opinion that no man out of the Church of God nor nobody of meē besides the Church of God understands it right Nor shall I be so mad now in my old age to go to dig my self religion having so fair a one already stamped to my hands wch all the art of men and angels put together can never mend Put him in Bedlam that undertakes both labour and hazard for naught LA. Do you think Sr Harry ever to perswade me that reading the Gospell I do not sufficiently understand the story of Christ his birth and life death and passion resurrection and ascension I fear not to affirm that I understand it perfectly and by your favour as fully as is necessary I do also conceiv well enough nor is it hard so to do wt his doctrin and miracles conduced to mankind I am moved also wth the divine discours of Christ and his Apostles Every Sabboth-day I go to Church and hear the word of God preacht I cannot see wt is more to be done he that reads and hears and beleevs the word of life cannot miscarry VIC And I for my part understand all that ever I either read or hear Alas when I was a young girle I was even then so towardly that I could read the Scripture as I ran up and down the house according as it is written write the vision and make it plane upon Tables that he may run that readeth Hab. 2. My husband and I every Sabboth day go hand in hand to Church together like the beasts that went into the ark by two and by two the Male and his Female Gen. 7.2 Surely this is sufficient for the salvation of all flesh KN. Madam you have now toucht upon the main busines wherein all sectaries be most pittifully deluded If they do but go to Church and hear a Sermon each one according to his fansy their duty is done and all his safe I will not stand now to examine whether the preaching be orthodox or no. Be it what it will It will not serv the turn I have already to my ability declared that the reading of Scriptur is no sufficient means of finding out our faith tho so much as it is it doth all of it confirm and verify the Churches doctrin I shall now go forward and evince two truths more First that reading or preaching of Gods word or the hearing therof tho it be indeed Gods word and pure and orthodox is not the essentiall or cardinal work of Christian religion Secondly that a man may hear and read it all his life time and yet be lost at the end both for want of grace and truth Our Lord wrote nothing himself as all men know yet notwthstanding he would never have failed either to have done it himself or commanded others to have done it if reading or hearing had been the great work of his religion to be imposed upon mankind For reading you know and expounding of Scriptur presupposes writing and his great work had been no other than to see things written if our great work had been no other than to read or hear them The four Evangelists afterwards put together some few heads of our B. saviours life and doctrin haply to carry about wth them in their bosom and entertain their converts wthall But we do not read that our Lord gave them any command to do so And this is an argument in your principles that he gave them none at all And as he gave them no order to write so neither did the promise them any assistance in their writing for all the concurrence we find promised either them or their successours was onely for the pectorall custody of their traditions orall doctrine and Church government And therfor since you deny the constancy of Christs assistance in the continuall government of his Church internall beleef and externall doctrin unto wch that assistance was promist affirming that the Church of Christ as it is not in it self infallible so hath it gone astray both in practis and doctrin me thinks you might wth as much ease and indeed more plausibility deny the same concurrence to any of the Churches writings whereunto it was never promist at all nor the Scriptur or writing it self so much as commanded by him wthout whose order nothing of force or autority could be done Nor it is to be thought but that Peter James Andrew and others of the Apostles had been both as able and as willing to write Evangells as the other four wherof two of them were but disciples of a far inferiour rank to the Apostles and indeed but companions and attendants upon them as may be seen in the Acts. Nay if writing had been such a capitall work S. Peter would never have neglected to have writ a Gospell himself especially when S. Mark his pupil and companion wrote one But this is an argument they had some greater work in hand and more nearly enjoind than that was Nor can we find by any monument that any of the other ten Apostles who were sent severall waies
of purgatory as well as hell or heaven both contrition and pennance both God and his blessed retinu of Saints and Angels both preaching and Sacrificing shrins altars unctions seaven Sacraments vows Pilgrimages and all whatsoever things the Catholik now beleeves or professes even to the least drop of holy water And if that faith that hath the vertu and power to trample down idolatry to chase away paganisme and triumph over all the power of darknesse be not divine if this good tidings of truth benot the vertue of God and power of God wch is it From this power of converting nations the Prophets of old magnified the word and Gospell of the Messias and S. Paul upon that account cals it the vertu and power of God and yet this efficacy is onely proper and peculiar to the Catholik Religion and non els I shall onely at this time give some generall conjectures in a familiar discours wherby we may be moved to beleeve wt is indeed most cerainly true that popery is no addition of mans at least suspect that the report our reformers give of it sounds like a slander leaving solider and more particular demonstrations for som other time LA. It will not displeas us to hear you speak so that after all is done you will follow our counsell KN. I shall not be obstinat But give me leave dear Lady fully to vent my thoughts For I conceive that a man is not capabl of better counsell till he hath utterly discovered all whatever things detaind him afortime in his sormer purpos wthout any reservation at all For even small reliques of former courses lurking in the mind undiscoverd will still be egging him on to thos waies again after he hath embraced better counsell repine against the advice he hath taken as ruinous and prejudiciall although it were in it self very behoofesull and good So that the mind runs a hasard of lasting disquiet wch enters upon a new cours before the old be totally dislikt VIC I out wth is Sr Harry our wth it fully for so it is written Counsell in the heart of a man is like deep water but a man of understanding will draw it out Prov. 20. MIN. Well Sr let not my argument be forgot wher by I prooud that popery was a human art and therfore in mans power to reform nay t is comendable to cashere falsities KN. You said indeed so but prooud it not not was it ever prooud yet by any tho it be in all mens mouths nor ever will be so long as the world lasts The misery is Sr that men of your opinion that is to say not catholik are all very little verst in our catholik authors especially such as be scholasticall subtile and voluminous love and care I mean wife and children haply not permitting such brain-consuming studies so that when we come to discours wch you t is as equally hard to perswad you as the vulgar of the parish being all of you equally ignorant of the Churches waies and doctrin And yet popery a thing indeed unknown to you must be jeerd at spoke against preacht against and haply writ against too by som pert Gentlman that has never so much as heard a whol cours of philosophy in his life for a whol cours either of philosophy or divinity is a thing now a daies altogether unknown in both our universities and that wth so many impertinencies lies and slanders such vanity fraud and cosenage such insulting babl wresting of Scriptur texts and falsifying of authors that my heart has even startld within me to behold this shamles dealing You say that all your reformations are but the taking away from the purity of Gospell the vain superstructurs of human superstitions commonly cald popery This you say becaus other reformers said so before you taking it one from another since Luthers time and your child will say it from you and so will every bastard in the parish Nor does it avail us any thing by all manner of proofs to assert the divinity and truth of our doctrin Altho you will not read or cannot haply understand those sublim orthodox divins that would fully inform your judgement in this point and convince you of an errour no less notorious than dangerous Yet me thinks there be many things obvious and familiar might render you wary and suspitious of danger in this your asserion wch concerns no les than your eternal salvation As first that you never examend it you know you did not I appeal to your own conscience The Church hath ever beene in possession of this her doctrin and cannot possibly be dispossest but by some evident demonstration wch I am sure the power of man and angel can never effect if you insist on any other autority as sacred scripturs or councells they are as sure hers as any of your proper goods is your own Nor is ther I am confident any one text I say not any one single text of Scriptur if it be taken together wth the whole body scope and intention of the book whence t is drawn that shall urg or proov any thing for any Reformation against the Church this I am able to maintain against the wholl world And yet you ar so far from considering or examining any of thes things that you conclude upon bare hearsay or report wthout either autority or demonstrative reason against the doctrin of the Church wherof she hath been time out of mind in possession and all this slighnes is used in a matter of the highest concernment in the world as if the talk wer onely de lana Caprina Me thinks it should fright you to think that if your assertion should be fals as for aught you know it is then ar you certainly guilty of the accursed sacriledg of diminishing from the word and will of God Again you know and do acknowledg that you have substracted not only some part but the most and greatest parts of that religion was found planted in the land in Harry the eights daies Pray tell me that whol mass or body of practicall doctrin that is now cut off in this year 1655 was it known in King Charls James or Queen Elisabeths days to have been all of it popish additions To this I am sure peopl of severall reformations will give severall answers Independency the last and purest reformation will affirm it but Protestancie the first and oldest apostasy will deny it nor will the Protestant indure that his children should judg him as he condemnd his mother Church or reform his fallibility as he rebeld against the infallibility of his parent And yet the Independent proceeds consequently to those very principles wch the protestant laid for his own revolt namely the fallibility of men the solesufficiency of scripturs and the Spirit of God therin assisting his elect to the discovery of truth Nor can the Independent be blamed for any thing but for striking thes principls further hom than the amphibian protestant did This
Scriptures as our boyes and girles do at schoole judging the sense comprehended as soone as the sillables be speld I speak not to such Greater divines to whome I speak must and will acknowledg that the Scriptures be often argumentative passing from one point to another wthout giving any doctrinall notice therof This will make the reader hable to continuall mistakes whiles he conceivs the writer to go still along upon the same subject whereas he is past over to a new or a contrary one As also in the Psalmes canticles Prophecies t is very familiar wth those holy men under one the same number person to act themselvs in one verse God or his church in the other imediately succeeding in one half line to decipher things present in the other conjunctivly connext things onely to come and not appliable to wt was then in hand tho the speech be united The good Eunuch in the Acts of the Apostles was it seems adviced hereof when reading the Prophesy of Isaias he asked Philip of whome doth the Prophet speak this verse he was led as a sheep to the slaughter of himself or of some other man Act. 8.34 Again in the whole course of scriptur a man may meet wth propositions here and there desperst wch being taken apart from the other discours and according to their own bare sound are quite opposite to other formal assertions in the same book nay to the very drift and intention of the Authour as will soon appear unto him that shall make an analysis of the whole book such be the semisentences depraved texts and ill applied autorities used by sectaries For example in that sublime and learned Epistle of S. Paul written to the Romans our people of England do cull out many places for the solesufficiencie of faith against the necessity merit of good works wch is as far from the dift and intention of the Apostle as hell is from heaven and unbeseeming such a Catholick doctour as S. Paul was to write to such a Catholik place as Rome The busines and occasion of the letter was an emulation risen in Rome betweene the converted Jewes and the converted Gentiles those who had been made Christians from Iewes disabling the Gentiles as being ever aliens from God wheras the Iewes converted were first Gods servants under Moses then under Christ and so pleasing God in the whole course of their linage by their good conversation according to the law they used the Gentils on the other side diminisht the Iewes for that themselves by the very light of reason doing wt they could was a law to themselvs and so far pleasd God that he therfore brought them equally wth the Iewes unto the light of Gospell wch the Iewes indeed deservd not sith they had murderd the Messias and Lord of glory This childish emulation arising haply upon some slight word at their meetings proceeded so far that it brake forth into open rancour one against another insomuch that their Priests and Pastours who were amongst them could not well allay it Wherfore S. Paul notice therof being given to him wrote that letter of his to them wherin he layes about him now at the Iewes then at the Gentils confuting their pride and folly and giving them both to understand that neither of them had aught to boast of sith God of his free mercy had equally cald them both to the saving faith of Gospell and made them Christians and therfore that they should all live together in humility peace and brotherly charity This is the scope and subject of that sacred and most Catholik Epistle so wretchedly abused by our pittifull Sectaries who understanding nothing of the Apostles purpose deprave him as they do other scripturs to their own ruin And t is an odde kind of riddle that Catholik divines who do onely understand the scriptures should affirm them to be hard and difficil to understand heretiks who understand them not at all should maintaine them to be easy Again we see that scriptur ever anon takes up figures allegories and parables wherin are inclosed truths of a differing strain to wt the letter relates This will caus an obscurity almost invincible For who can look through a veyl none surely but the church and church men singularly assisted and inspired so S. Paul lookt through the story of Sara and Agar and perceivd the two churches decipherd therin Gal. 4. And this custom is it seems so frequent in Scriptur that the same Apostle gives a caution against too much adhereing to the bark and letter of sacred scriptur averring peremptorily that the letter kills but the spirit or meaning couched under the letter that is life 2. Cor. 3. For that the bare letter of the history too much insisted upon will often lead if not to a contrary errour vet besides the intended truth Besides the same phrase or letter is used in scriptur somtimes one way somtimes another as sin not to stand upon further exemplification is taken commonly for an offens and yet somtimes again for an expiation therof 2. Cor. 5.21 wth is almost contrary Somthings in scriptur are spoken of God according to his essence wch wthout good heed may prejudice the right beleef of a trinity some things of Christ according to his humanity wch may dâ—sh the conceit of the diety in him som things of the church triumphant wch may falsly be applied to the militant somthings of the Messias his second coming wch may be a stumbling block to the truth of his first And contrary All these things have caused errours mistakes and heresies in the world And may still do the like if private judgment have free and uncontroulable dominion over the letter and text of scripture to interpret it at pleasur Lastly sacred scriptur being a masse or body of writing both made up by severall Authours and a miscellan of severall kinds of words histories and lawes under a figure histories and lawes wth out figure or dogmaticall Prophesies of severall stiles or phrases and all of them obscure and parabolicall prudentiall Proverbs close coucht together and so antimetrically sited that rare wits can search into their depth Psalms and canticles so highly elevated above ordinary conceit that for aught I see they may suffice to amuse the understandings of all ages parables not yet fully explicated and dogmaticall Epistles of the good Apostles wch if they be taken so far as may concern pure Christianity wthout their economicall morall and politicall precepts wch be easy and well enough known wthout them are enough to exercise the understandings of mankind Scriptures I say made up of all these severall ingredients argue first that they were never pend to teach us our faith but for a meer help of meditations for exhortation incitement of devotion and piety in people already beleeving Secondly that it would be a lost labour to go cull our beleef out of theÌ„ where no such purpose is intended no method used
disposed in the week time to be godly you read a chapter if not you let it alone And this is all you do or ever mean to do And if your preacher do sometimes upon occasion exhort you to the abnegation of worldly desires to the castigation of your body by fasting and discipline that you become not reprobate to hospitality or almsdeeds to a generall abdication of all things for Christ by leaving father and mother wife and lands to follow him in that nakednes himself practised finally to an universall conformity to the Son of God in piety and poverty These and such like things he speaks by cours and out of formality to make a plausible noise in the Church and fulfill his houre But he is not so mad as to think you will ever practise any of these things nor do you hear him wth any such purpos the practise of such things being well enough known by both of you or at least beleeved to be down right popery by all reformations discarded His preaching is a talking to your eares and your hearing a listning to his lips till the sound cease and then the essentiall work of your religion is done But if haply you like the wit of the preacher and give him your applaus then you have both of you your finall expectation and the whole work of religion both essentiall and accidentall is accomplisht This kind of hearing and preaching tending to no further end is so far from being the sole act religion that t is no religion at all nay t is a mere mockery and abuse of religion condemnd by the Scriptures both of the old and new Testament where t is concluded that not hearers but doers are justified VIC I could wish you would remember Sr that Christ said more than once he that hath ears to hear let him hear but he never said he that hands to work let him work or he that hath knees to kneel let him kneel or he that hath meat to eat let him fast Leave your talking Sr Harry and read the bible MIN. The acts of the Apostles will make it manifest that after Pentecost Peter and Iohn and Paul and others of the Apostles were wholly taken up in preaching as the sole act of Christian religion KN. Christian preaching is of two sorts The first is absolutly necessary the other onely expedient The first is made to Paynims and such as have not yet heard of Christ or respect him not as they ought to convert them to his religion and faith the other to Christians to put them in mind of the practis and end therof the first is the parent and productiv power of faith the second a mistres and overseer of works Of the first kind of peaching is often mention both in the Acts of the Apostles and other parts of the new Testament For both in Gospell when our saviour sent out his Apostles to preach unto all nations and when they exercised this their mission in the Acts preaching before Iewes and Pagans and when S. Paul in his Epistle to the Romans and elswhere speaks so much of preaching t is every where meant of this preaching unto Gentils Paynims and unbeleevers for their conversion But concerning the second kind of preaching made unto Christians ther is no news or mention at all therof in the whole book of the Acts nor did ever any of those primitiv beleevers come together to hear a Sermon but onely to supplication and prayer and fraction of bread wch is the Catholik Masse Indeed on the day of Pentecost after the Holy Ghost had visibly descended upon the Catholik church congregated together in one place and made them all speak wth strang tongues Upon noise herof all sorts of people both Iews and Gentils came flocking in to behold the wonder then S. Peter took the occasion to make a Sermon to those strangers who stood amased at the sight Act. 2. but that speech was not directed at all to the Christians as may appear by the very matter and tenour therof and all the Christian service was ended before the people unto whom he addrest his speech came in Nor for some hundred years after do we find or hear tell of any preaching made to Christians nor were they ever accused by the Roman prefects for other than for meeting together and breaking of bread wheras Sermons if they had had any made had afforded a more plausible accusation against such as already tho wthout any desert of theirs bore the name of seditious As soon as any person or nation had embraced his Christian faith he then wthout expecting further preaching fell presently to those works his faith dictated to him and according to his obligation applied himself to the rule he had received as may be seen in the book of the Acts. And doubtles all prelats who had care of soules held forth unto beleevers that great dictamen of perfection and justice wch S. Paul calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 We will and comand that all who have once beleevd in God do make it their care to attend unto good works Tit. 3.8 Tho indeed in after times when that first fervour of Christian charity grew cold and especially upon times of singular mortification and fasts as in Lent and Advent as also upon high solemnitys the Catholik Church hath ever made use of this secondary preaching wch is made unto Christians for the incitement of works of piety This secondary peaching is indeed a religious exercise profitable to distrest and slack spirits for comfort and advice But no good Christian ever lookt upon it as the great work of his religion or ever thought his duty to be don when the Sermon was ended In a word the Catholik church uses both these kinds of preaching the one to infidels for their conversion the other to Christians for their exhortation But she places the sum of her religion in neither of them but in the performance of those things wherunto people are converted and exhorted And a third kind of preaching wch is to no further end at all but onely to spend time was never thought of by Christians till this wretched heresy invented it For your preaching is not Mr Parson to convert your auditours who have already received their faith and be as good Christians as your self nor yet to excite them to good works wch be in both your judgments justly casherd long ago as popish But your preacher he preaches till for his livelihood he has stood his howr and the hearers hear till they have sat their hour and then all hasten home and the work of God is ended This is all your holocaust an ear-offering and he that wants his ears or has them stopt by cold may stay at home as unfit for service In my judgement t is pure non sens and no religion at all to be still preaching faith as reformers do unto people wch already understand their faith as well as their teachers or think
one day be destroyd The path of the just saith Solomon is as the shining light that shineth more and more unto the perfect day Prov. 4.18 LADY This is handsomly spoken Think seriously of this good S Harry and be as ready to suspect that for an errour wch lay hid longer as that wch was sooner discovered so shall all your popery melt away by degrees like icicls before the sun KN. I see and acknowledg that new reformations in Religion are daily made but whether to the edification or ruin thereof dos not yet so clearly appear A continuall taking away is an odd kind of mending nor do I know any thing in natur made better or greater therby save only a gap The pretended lights that have risen from time to time one after another I have hitherto taken to be meer unwholsom exhalations sulphureous meteors or som ignes fatui good for nothing but to lead men into lakes and ditches The daily rising of new opinions in Religion maks me rather suspect all than approv of any innovation becaus thes opinions ar all of them but new denialls of som part of the ancient Catholik-faith wch former reformers had not yet attained the confidence to reject so that it is stil but the same kind of audacity the very self same presâ—â—â—ption wth an additioÌ„ of som new degree of daring And ther was never any harlot that cast of all her cloths at once but according as she grew by degrees more shamless They that threw down the altar left a tabl standing in the Church and the first violatours of picturs did not break al the glass windows yet their succeslours hav finisht the work and the bare walls now standing ar dangerously threatnd In the same manner be articls of faith defaced and rased in the hearts and spirits of men by a graduall proceeding of infidelity and heresy still increasing in its growth of imodesty til of the whol fabrick of Christian religion ther be not left one ston upon another wch is the way not of composition but solution it dos not renew but impair I should look strangely upon that Phesition who will first make me beleeve I am sick when I do not find in my self that I ill any thing or complain at all and then taking upon him even against my will to reform me in my health purges me too again till I bee not able to stand on my legs drawing still from me till my body be quit consumed and never adding any positiv thing to sustain me Or if he should begin on the outsid and first tear of my cloths then my skin and so my flesh and bones still telling me it is for the renewing of my health and cheerfulnes I could not judg this other than outragious mockery and most cruell inhuman abuse Yet such and no other be all reformations in religion a continuall cancelling of doctrins formerly receivd and practised a daily taking away without addition of any thing and that in despight of the Church whos doctrine it is This is one reason I like not to hear of thes reformations much les to behold wth mine eyes the wofull ruins and disorders accompany them both in Church and state Another is I cannot see when there will be any end therof the successours still pretending the unlimited right of innovation the unlimited right of innovation left them as hereditary by their fathers wch right for aught I see all generations ar equally ambitious to put in practis so that nothing is stabl or secure nothing at all unchangeable nor can any one tell either what faith he livs in or in what he is to dy Indeed such men as would not be containd in their bounds by a profession of infallibillity wch they had in the Church how shall a profession of fallibility exhibited by heresy contain them a fallible liberty and a free fallibility can never lin rolling nor will they ever rest stated till they be faln into the gulf of atheism MIN. Do not mistake us Sr Harry we do not intend that variety of reformations should afford an argument against your stiff standing Popery in that way you take it But desire you onely to consider that inventions have been perfected by degrees all arts sciences customs garbs languages and wtever hath been at any time invented or used by man as you shall soon perceiv and grant if you would let your thoughts descend unto any one particular The art of making of watches how is it betterd wthin forty or fifty years and our English tongue purified Thus runing over the whol employments of mens hands and understandings you will acknowledg wth us that addition of new facultys in men of succeeding tims hath stil perfected the rude unpolisht works of forgoing ages In the same manner Religion afortim obscur and mixt wth several superstitions is by latter times illustrated and clensd LADY T is therfor no marvell that every ten or twenty years new waies ar invented by fresher wits to oppugn Popery KNIGT Madam thes severall new ways of heresy argue first that the ring-leaders and followers of the Lutheran faction the most dangerous epidemicall revolt I think hath ever happed since the Apostles days did not forsak the church for any reason they had so to do but first forsook the church and then sought out a reason to colour their revolt For had they had any one or many reasons for their division thes being once cleard and answered by the Catholick church so far that they could no longer insist upon their scattered principls they would hav returnd unanimously unto that body whence they and their for-fathers had impiously apostatisd and not have studied other shifts as vain as the former and perhaps more wicked too wherby to maintain themselvs and adherents in the wretched Schism whereunto they had formerly run purly indeed upon sensuall and carnall motivs whatsoever themselves pretend Secondly thes new ways and daily alterations of sectarys do sufficiently demonstrat that out of the Catholick church ther is not that unity consent and stablnes wch may mov a prudent man to beleev that either all those Sects together or any one of them ar that mysticall body of Christ that keeps an unity of spirit in the bond of peace Eph. 4.2 and wch is fitly joind and compact together v. 16. sith they neither agree together in the articles of their heleef nor yet in the motivs of their apostasy from that church that is and ever hath been so united and compacted in it self nor have in themselves any stability or consistency at all That is not grounded which never lins moving Again thes new ways of oppugning the church are not onely new declarations of former negativs maintaind by their for-fathers against the church but additions of new negativs and further apostasie wch infers as much division from their predecessors as they had from the first faith of the church and so they give me no
for the worlds conversion carried any written Gospell at all wth them wch might be made by themselves much less is it to be thought that they staied to write out theirs having their own breasts so well fraught wth all that and far more than they found ther written especially considering that two of the Evangelists were but their pupills and disciples Nay before those Gospels were written out and completed especially that of S. John the Church of God was spread up and down the world and flourisht in all the duties of Christianity By wch it may appear that even the written Gospell is neither it self necessary to the being of the Church nor the reading or expounding of a text the essentiall work of Christianity As for the Epistles wch be the other part of the new Testament written by S. Paul and others These t is well enough known were pend a long while after the Church of God was perfectly formd and grown up in most parts of the known world in particular after those Churches of Rome Corinth Ephesus Galatia Thessalonica and the rest unto whom they are addrest were perfected in all the essentialls of Christian faith and they were occasiond merely accidentally upon the creeping in of some disorders and errours in those places contrary to the tradition of faith they had received as may soon appear to him that reads and understands the tenour of those spirituall Epistles So then the Church is antecedent to her Scriptur and altogether independant theron either for her being or profession helps of memory as all these writings be do presuppose both the memory and the things to be remembred before those helps were brought to light And so the reading of these Scriptures or hearing them expounded can no wise be the essentiall work of Christian religion or the totall exercise therof but somthing that is altogether independent of them more ancient than they be and that is more intrinsecally a worship homage adoration and service of the most high God than hearing or looking upon words and syllables can be I make no doubt but the whol Scriptur or writing of the new Testament both Epistles and Gospells was merely casuall and accidentall For I find it long ago foretold by the Prophets that the law and government of the Messias should in this differ from the Law of Moses that Moses Law was all committed to paper but the doctrin of Iesus should be writ in the heart and entrailes of his Church You may see one place in the Prophet Ieremy c. 31.33 wch the Apostle in his Epistle to the Hebrewes applies unto Christ our Lords dayes Heb. 10.16 and S. Paul doth not obscurely allude unto it in one of his letters he wrote to Corinth c. 3.3 Indeed to imprint in the churches breast a law from wch she should never deviat is in my judgment a greater argument of divinity than any written Gospell could afford The things wch Solon Numa Lycurgus Draco and other such like men contrived and dictated for the good of their common wealths did much commend their gravity vigilance and wisedome and elevated them above other men not above manhood Moses himself the most profound judicious Lawmaker the world ever had by the excellency of his written Laws hath merited the title of a divine and sacred legislatour but he is known to be a man by his hand-writing and the paper he wrote on He is a God that writes on the velin of the heart characters indelible unto eternity The Law of Christ onely is written not wth ink but wth the spirit of the living God not in tables of stone but in fleshly tables of the heart I do also verily think that the religion wch the Son of God deliverd to his church was neither commanded by him to be written nor yet ever intended either by the Euangelists or other of those primitiv writers to be totally set down under the notion of a rule of faith altho so much as ther is of it drawn principally for the use of devotion and charity be a rule of faith also What the occasion might be that moved the four Euangelists to write their compendious Gospells by the little learning I have I could never yet assuredly gather altho I remember I have read somthing thereof in a learned latin book made by a friend of mine called Systema fidei put forth some few years ago wherein be very many things of excellent learning worthy of the Authour but I have not now the book at hand Wt occasion moved S. Paul to write his Epistles unto Rome Corinth and other places is manifest enough and I shall afterward declare it when I shall come to discover the religion of the Apostles and Euangelists and make it appear that they were all papists and of the very self same religion Catholiks be of at this day All this put together that Christ himself neither wrote any thing nor comanded any thing to be written yea gave notice that he would use his speciall prerogative of legislatourship and write his law in hearts promising to animate the body of his Church wth his own spirit wch should lead them into all truth and that the church was disperst over the earth before any Christian writting was made wch was afterwards drawn to confirm and strengthen the faith and devotion it found already planted All this being true it follows apparently that hearing or reading or preaching upon a text is not the great capitall work of Christian Religion Indeed t is childishnes to think that God unto whom all prostration adoration all homage service and worship both of the outward inward man is more than due should be sufficiently served wth a little labour of the lips or ears when a man thinks good so to do Preaching is indeed necessarily antecedent to Christian faith yet it onely disposes unto furrher actions as may easily appear both by autority of Scriptures wch exclaime bitterly against such as hear and go no further and also by the very natur of hearing and all kind of exhortation wch ever tends to somthing besides it self For who ever heard onely to hear and no further who but our mad reformers ever preacht onely to be heard And how can speaking on one side and hearing on the other complete the whol duty of man to his God as if one were nothing but tongue and ear or had receivd nothing from him but those two organs Tell me Madam ingenuously Do not you think you have sufficiently done your duty to God if you go but forth once a Sunday to hear a Sermon and if you read a chapter or two in a week day this is nothing else in effect altho by your favour you do not think you self bound under sin to either but if you like the weather or the parson pleases or your clothes be neat and handsom then you will go forth to church if not you will stay at home if you find your self
they do at least and if they chance for formalitys sake to fall upon any practicall point to speak therof wth no purpos hope or intention of their practise For t is agreed on both sides both preacher people that such practis is popery and nothing requisit to salvation but onely to beleeve Hear a parable Two artificers had each of them an apprentis The first having delivered to his servant exactly all the rules of his art put him presently to work and practis by them assuring him that practis will better his knowledg wch the servant in all singlnesse of heart applying himself to labour according to the dictats of his rule advanced accordingly and so became eminent in the eyes of men and excceedingly beneficiall to the common wealth The other tradesman wth drew from the sight of his prentise all the particular rules and whole method of his art onely deliverd unto him in grosse som experiments and feats thereof by wch notwthstanding he could not perceiv at all either where to begin or how to go on nay he gave his servant one generall caution not to put his hands to any thing his duty being onely once a week to com and sit down before him and hear him discours of the usefulnes and benefit of his trade Onely beleeving in him his work is ended The prentise under such a teacher grew to be a great proficient in works and sentences but never put his hand to any thing either for his own credit or the benefit and service of mankind Nay he mockt at the other apprentis and cald him simple drudg The first of these artificers is the Catholik church the other is the Reformation Do you apply the rest The Catholik Religion is a noble a rational religion well beseeming a complete man to profess well beseeming the Son of God to plant The reformation a vain empty businesse befitting none to receive it but a company of cripples that have neither hands nor feet to use nor none to invent it but dawes and magpies It begins in teaching and ends in preaching Wo to you Pharisees saith our Lord for ye tith mint and rue and all manner of herbs and passe over judgment and justice and the love of God those ye ought to have done and not leave the other undone Luc. 11. Preaching if it be right and pious may be used nay when instructions advise and comfort is necessarily to be applied it ought to be done but the practise wherunton it tends this is not to be left undon The tithing of mint rue and cumin does but figur out under a tipe a consecrating unto God part of the good things we do enjoy from him by fasting almsdeeds and prayer that is to be done these not to be left undone Preaching puts in mind of the works of faith hope and charity that wher is need is to bee used these not to be neglected At one and the same time to preach good things in the pulpet and to cry down the same things by the rules of Reformation is to open a mans mouth and stop his wind pipe All your people go to your Churches wth such a prejudice against the customs of Catholik Church whence they are cut off by the reformation that altho the minister should chance wth singular zeal and eloquence to declaim against sin and cry up the exercises of Christianity yet the auditory is promoted nothing at all therby being aforehand prejudiced by the rules of reformation incorporated and naturalised in their spirit For who can take such words to heart or ever heed them effectually that shall firmly beleev that all we do or can do is sin and wt sin soever we commit we shall sure enough be saved if we do but beleev in Christ. People imbued wth these principles shall never by any Rhetorick either of man or angel be either affrighted from evill wordly pleasures and sin or perswaded to the laborious works of mortification and pennance The sowr grapes of Reformation have so set peoples teeth on edg that they cannot chew good mear T is in vain t is utterly in vain to bid dead men walk or exhort those to the works of life who by the poyson of reformation are made dead and sensles Preaching is to Catholiks a profitable and religious exercise to hereticks if it be orthodox t is a vain work if pseudodox t is a wicked work but to no people nor in no kind is it or can it be the onely work or sole Christian duty LA. Wt be those works Sr Harry you require over and above preaching KN. Even such as the Word of God it self requires The works of faith hope and charity and use of Sacraments prescribed in Gospell a serious and effectuall indeavour against sin according as sacred scriptur prescribes whose precepts must be heeded as obligatory and counsells respected as meritorious offerings We must both beleev in Christ as mediatour and beleev him too as our legislatour Both love him and observ his will and when we do fail reconcile our selves unto him by the means-himself hath ordayned captivating both our will and understanding to his pleasure who is our redeemer and maister and omnipotent Lord. To speak more particularly the works wch Catholiks by their faith are directed and exhorted unto be of two sorts personall and conventuall The personal works be first a constant obedience to the Church in all her dictamens of faith upon this great hinge hangs indeed all true and solid Christianity then an effectuall exercise of homage and piety to God of justice and charity towards our neighbour of sobriety and continence in our selves These things must be done he that does them best shall fare best for it The conventuall a reverent use of Sacraments and a presence at divine psalmody and Sermons according to our occasion and need But the great capitall conventuall work and worship is the venerable and blessed Sacrifice of the Altar every holiday solemnly exhibited every Christian stands obliged to be then present at it tho his devotion may find it each day of the week in our Catholik churches and many thousands of good people serv God every day in this holy rite But this is a free offering of their own not wthout great benefit and comfort to themselvs unto wch Holy church will not oblige This is that great work wch constitutes and essentiates Christian Religion By this it was perfected in its fundamentall worship and duty towards God long before our people had any Scripturs to read and by wch especially seconded wth its other Catholik appurtenancies it would still remain intire altho there were no Scriptures at all either to read or hear For Scriptur as it is expounded by Holy church or rather the traditional doctrin of the church whereof Scripture is a short and compendious coppy is to us Christians a light not to sit idle by but to work by This is the work wch the Disciples and
and Son Abaylardus again that power was not appropriated but proper to the Father wisedom to the Son and bounty to the Holy Spirit The Manichees contended that the devill is evill by his owne natur and not made so by his fall Origen that the devills should at length be deliverd from hell Hermannus Risswick in the year 1512. held wth much stiffnesse that neither the good Angels nor bad were created of God The church of God resisted all these could she do otherwise Others denied the creation of the soul imediatly by God Seleucus affirming that it is made by Angels of spirit and fire Tertullian that the soul of the Son is made by the soul of his Father as his body by his body The Gnosticks on the other side said it was made of the substance of God himself wch was afterwards defended by the Manichees the wild ofspring of Manes a Persian who affirmd himself to be both Christ the Paraclet too sent out his twelv Disciples about the world to spread abroad his haeretical dogmes who were much multiplied in the time of pape Foelix Tertullian thought that the souls of wicked men were after death turned into devills wch surely is an errour if he speak of a physical and not of a morall turning The Arabians on the other side affirmed that all souls quite perish wth their body wch atheism was also defended by the above named Rissnick the Hollander The Albigenses in the time of Pope Jnnocent 3. averd according to Pythagoras his doctrin that souls pas from one body to another Origen that they were created before the body and imprisond therin for some offence committed wch opinion is assuredly against the common judgment of Catholiks The Gnostiks that all bruit beasts were maisters of understanding and reason The church if she had desired to have done it would have found somthing to do to comply wth all these men Seleucus and Hermias would have the matter wherof the world was made to be coeternall wth God and not created Foelix a Manichean affirmd the same of the Earth Others of Water The Albanenses said that the world should never end Simon Magus as also the Gnosticks Manichees said that the world was made of the ill God and not by the good one and that corporall creatures and mans body were therfore evill in themselves and in their own substance Florinus in the time of Pope Eleutherius taught that God whom he acknowledgd to be both one good did notwthstāding evill things wth a positiv purpos of il as to harden mens hearts deceiv them Coluthius an Egiptian on the other side denied God to inflict so much as the evill of punishment Tatianus in the time of Pope Julius the first affirmed that Adam and Eve were for their sin perpetually damned And yet notwthstanding wisdom is said to have brought him who was first formed and father of the world out of his sin Sap. 10. Origen that Adam lost by sin the image of God wch was an errour surely if he spake properly of his image that is founded in natur and not of similitud founded in grace and blessednes Pelagius in the time of Honorius and Theodosius the younger avouched that Adam died not through demerit of his fault but condition of natur and so had died although he had not find The Armenians inhabitants of Asia betwixt Taurus and Caucasus after their separation from the Catholik church wch happend as I remember upon the councell of Chalcedon wherein Eutiches Abbot and Dioscorus Byshop of Constantinople were condemnd whos conciliary acts the Armenians would not receiv but made themselvs a primat of their own they fell into many errours amongst wch one was that Adam and Eve if they had not sind had never ingendred children and therfore they held marriage to be unlawful Philaster mentions others who maintained that Adam and Eve before they had sinned were blind Thes be blind guids for the church of Christ to follow How many wayes should she turn to trace all these mens steps In a a word not to insist longer upon the old Testament S. Austin and S. Epiphanius in their Books of Heresys mention som who taught that Melchisedeck was not a pure man but som diuine vertu or Christ himself T is easy to say any thing of every thing VIC O the father what a number of pretty opinions be here Truly I find in my heart to hold som of them They were most witty interpreters of Scriptur Pray go on sweet Sr Harry this is the best discours you ever made yet go on it delights me exceedingly according as it is written Thy lips drop as the honey comb Cant. 4. The more you speak the more my appetit encreases MIN. Pray Sr let us break this discours wch I was not aware of and com to matter I have furnisht my self wthall for your conversion This talk corrupts my wife VIC Earth to earth and ashes to ashes Pray be content let me be corrupted thē Thou fool that wch thou sowest is not quickend except it dye Look in the 15. c. of the Corinthians and expound me that place And then tell me first if in right Logick corruption go not before generation tell me secondly who is that same Thou fool LA. I could willingly have Sr Harry to go on in this his speech for it is not altogether unprofitable to hear it and I conceiv not dangerous to us For nothing I hope can hurt such as be well confirmd in their religion VIC No forsooth for it is written of protestants Independents If they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them Mar. 16. KN. The errours and wild opinions that have rose in Christianity about the particulars of the new Testament have been so many and various in severall ages of the church that it is hard to bring them into method Our Doctours set them down in every age as they rose naming wth them the Catholik divines who wrote against them the councels that condemnd them the time they lasted and the mischiefs they did in the world I shall endeavour as wel as I may to reduce them all according to my forementiond method unto three sorts errours namely against persons places and actions of Christian faith Persons as Christ our Lord the blessed Virgin Mary S. John the Saints Pope Councells c. As concerning Christ our Lord I. Ebion about the time of Pape Cletus maintained that Christ our Lord was but pure man against whom S. John intreated by the Byshops and Priests of Asia wrote his Gospell Wth Ebion joind Cerinthus and Carpocrates and after them Theodotus of Bizantium who being under persecution denied Christ also Paulus Samosatenus in Syria under Pape Victor wth his disciple Photinus II. Others on the other side denyd him to hav any human natur at all as Cerdon in the time Pape Higin and the Proclianites people of Galatia who taught that Christ came not in flesh III. Apelles
pleasur by wth drawing tithes or tribut or otherwayes sess 8. against his 27. art Indeed the opinion is a way to all rebellion and disorder in church and state XVI Finally that no degree may scape the Waldenses and Luther inveighed bitterly against religious orders as the invention of the devill affirming that the founders of them were damnd for it if they repented not and that none could be saved in them wch desperate madness was censurd also in the said councell of Constance Sess 8. And strongly confuted by Chlitoveus Roffensis Albertus Thomas Waldensis a Carmelit and before them by S. Thomas and S. Chrysostome XVII To prevent all danger on any hand for any heresy or disorder the Waldenses spread abroad that no judg can condemn any man to punishment But they either forgat or simple souls never knew that S. Paul saith if ye do evill fear for the magistrat bears not the Sword in vain XVIII There were others who taught that no hereticks were to be punisht but left to Gods judgment 19. The Rhetorii saies Philaster affirmed that al hereticks thought aright XX. Nicolaus Eimericus reports of others in the time of Pape Gregory the eleaventh who affirmed that any one that commits a mortall sin is an heretick XXI S. Austin testifies of the hereticks called Ophitae that they worshipt the Serpent that beguiled Eve and the Caiani respected Judas for a Saint for that he was cause of our redemption These be some extravagant opinions of sectarys concerning severall persons in the church kings and subjects religious men clargy men priests students byshops the Senate of prelates popes Saints Christ and what not so sensles so wild so inconsistent so contradictory that the wisedom and integrity of the Church of God were not able to suffer much lesse approve them being contrary many of them to common honesty others to right reason all of them to Christian faith How shall the immaculate spous comply heaven and hell may sooner come together I think VIC T is a marvellous thing Sr Harry you can have all thes opinions in your head and hold none of them What difference is ther betwixt having and holding If I should ever think of them they would mingle wth my creed I can beleev any thing if it be not popery and take all that coms as I did my Husband to have and to hold for better and for wors as it is written MIN. Com you speak like one of the foolish women VIC How did you speak when you took me wth the very same words and said wth a blith and bucksom countenance I Iohn You have been a year or two at a pagan university where you learnt to worship Judas for a Saint you are so proud upon it deny if you dare that I understand the bible wch is the highest book in the world wherin then can you exceed mee T is true you are a parson but is it not written I have more understanding than my teachers Psa 119.99 You would fain com in wth your few texts against Sr Harry that you have been scribling out of a concordance being out of all patience that his Discours keeps you back Pray be content t is as pleasing to me to hear talk of these men as of my owne father and mother that begat mee expect your kue good sweet Husband Your hour is not yet come as t is written LA. T is agreed upon Sr Harry that you proceed in your discours Mr Doctour in the end will I beleev make use of it all to his owne advantage KN. I have declared som severall odd conceptions of men concerning sundry persons in the church Others there be concerning places as the temple or place of worship purgatory after life hell and heaven wch opinions maintained wth pertinacy caused the authours thereof to be cast out of the Catholik body of Gods church wherin they had been members I. Eustachius derided all Saints temples The Waldenses afterward would have all churches taken away as too much straitning the majesty of God whose temple is the wide world The Pseudapostoli added that a consecrated church is no more worth than a swine sty as also Zisca the German who wth his companions whom he called Taborites from mount Tabor where Christ was transfigured spoild and defaced all holy places they came neare The councell of Gangres defined against this madnesse c. 5. decret II. The same Waldenses would not endure that time should be spent in saying the canonicall hours in the church and their ape Wicleph gave his reasō for it becaus forsooth it is not fit that Christians should be tied to prayer at any time This reason if it wer worth any thing would destroy the Sabboth But all singing in the church they scofft at as nois made to Baal The Arrians before them disprooud singing in Catholik churches but their reason was becaus of so many Hymns and anthems made in the honour of Christ against their impious opinion Against al thes is the councel of Gangres c. 30. decret III. That all images are to be taken out of churches was stifly maintained both by the said Waldenses and their squire Wicleph For wch heresy long before their time Leo the third emperour in Constantinople was excomunicated by Pape Gregory the third yet notwthstanding the emperour Constantin the fift and emperour Leo the fourth his son adhered still to it but after his death Irene his wife ruling the empire in the name of the Infant Constantin the sixt obtained the second Nicen counsell to be called where by three hundred and fifty Byshops the heresy was condemnd though Constantin the sixt being of age would not submit to the councell wch was one of the mainest causes of the dislike and grudg between the Latin Greek emperours The errour was afterward condemnd in the councell of Frankford under pape Adrian the first IV. The adoration given in Catholik temples unto the cross and crucifix the above named Iohn Wicleph an english Priest who lived about the yeare 1380. would by all means have taken away But Thomas Waldensis his country man almost contemporary still confuted him and his blind Lugdunian guides who were also judgd condemnd by all the Prelats in Constance V. There also was censurd another errour of theirs that preaching in temples should be lawfull for any although prohibited by superiours VI. The said Wicleph denied tiths to be due to Priests serving at the Altar preaching and praysing God wch errour was also condemnd in the 18 place at Constance But this opinion he had from the Pseudapostoli whose ringleader was Gerardus Sagarellus of Parma who was burnt in the yeare 1260. VII Both the Waldenses and Wiclevits blasphemd all benedictions of water candls palms altars challices churches forgetting or not beleeving that every creature is sanctified by the Word of God and Prayer 1. Tim. 4. VIII No less peremptory was Wicleph Huss and Luther against excomunications from church and altar inflicted on
scandalous sinners and obstinate Hereticks calling them the censurs of Antichrist not heeding that S. Paul himselfe practised it I thought good saith he to deliver him up to Satan that his Spirit might be safe 1. Cor. 5. IX Finally all Christian buriall in holy ground the said Waldenses contemned as impertinent and vain These be the extravagant opinions concerning Temples As for Purgatory I. Some Greeks and Armenians avoucht ther is no such place wherin soules after their separation are purgd from dregs contracted in the body But the councell of Florence under pope Eugenius the fourth confirmd the contrary Catholik doctrin II. Luther afterward allthough he held Purgatory yet he had three errours concerning it first he taught that souls there might themselvs either merit or demerit again that a soul there was not certain of his salvation thirdly that a soul ther doth sin so long as it abhors those pains and seeketh rest The same autority from whence he had the beleef of purgatory might if he had listed have conserved him from these misbeleefs concerning it III. That almsdeeds prayers pennances and Sacrifices made by the living for the dead and souls in purgatory do nothing at all avail for their releasment was the heresy and errour first of Aerius then of the Armenians then of the Albigenses then of the Waldenses and lastly of Luther But it is confuted by S. Austin S. Gregory Theophylact and S. Chrysostome And four councells have defined against it Carthaginense quartum c. 95. Valense c. 4. decr Toletanum c. 22. and Florentinum for the union of the Greeks under pope Eugenius the fourth As for Hell I. Almaricus stifly denied it affirming there was no other hell but onely a mans owne conscience guilty of sin The Albanenses said that the punishments of hell were no other than what we suffer in this world Hermannus Risswick wthout any exposition denied any such thing as hell at all II. Origen taught that the pains of hell were not to be eternall Both these fansies are against Gospell and rejected by the councell of Lateran under pope Innocent the third Heaven the place of eternall bliss I make no doubt but that many men born Christians if they fell into heresys came at length to that Atheism as to deny it sith I meet wth so many here in England who deride it as a fiction But I have not read of any in authentick authours who did so though concerning the resurrection unto that bliss and finall beatitud many are said to have held erroneously As for Resurrection ther have been at times five erroneous opinions 1. The sadducees amongst the Jewes and among the Christians first Simon Magus then Valentin Apelles Marcus and Cerdon denied all resurrection of the flesh Against these writes S. Paul 1 Cor. 15. II. Eutichius Byshop of Constantinople taught that the body after its resurrection should be invisible and unpalpable S. Gregory not then Pope sent thither embassadour from the Apostolick sea confuted him openly before Tiberius Constantin then emperour so that Tiberius caused Eutichius his book to be burnt III. Origen said that our bodies after resurrection should be still mortall and after many ages fall to dust never to rise more Expresly against Scriptur wher t is said that mortall shall put on imortality 1 Cor. 15. VI. The Armenians defended that all should rise again in mans sex But if this had been true doctrin thē our Lord by saying so had easlier answered the Sadduces argument than by saying as he did that none should marry but they shall all be as the Angels of God Math. 22. Lastly the same Armenians affirmd that our Lord rose not upon sunday but on the Saturday before Me thinks it should be a hard task for them to show how he rose the third day sith he died on Fryday As for Beatitude 1. the Armenians and after them Petrus Abailardus a French man in the time of Pape Innocent the second then Arnaldus Brixiensis from whence perhaps came those hereticks Arnaldistae excomunicated yearly at Rome in caena Domini and lastly Almaricus affirmed that the blessed in heaven do not see Gods essence but behold him in his creatures S. Paul is contrary to these Now we see by a mirrour in an enigm then we shal see face to face 1 Cor. 13. II. Cerinthus would have heavenly beatitude to consist in the delights of the flesh and that Christs kingdom after the resurrection should be earthly wch errour he drew from some carnall Jews being himself contemporary wth S. John the Apostle But t is gainsayed by S. Paul The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink but justice and peace and joy in the holy Ghost Rom. 14. Papias Byshop of Hierapolis did indeed teach that Christ after the general resurrection should raign upon earth wth his faithfull retinue who had been sufferers here a thousand years drawn to that opinion by such a speech in Apocalips c. 20. and after him Irneus Apollinaris Lactantius Victorius Pictavensis But they held not the same as Cerinthus nor were pertinacious in their opinion against the church wch I think expounds that place of the blesseds reign wth Christ according to the soul from the howr of death to the generall judgment for there t is added Haec est resurrectio prima this is the first resurrection namely of the soul after the bodies death III. Origen taught that neither misery nor beatitude should be eternall for he conceived certain alternations or vicissitudes of both so that the blessed souls after som years should return to mortal bodys and thence be called again to beatitude in a kind of circle But all Scripture is against this fansy Between us and you is a great Chaos so that such as would pass from hence to you cannot c. Luk. 16. IV. That most perfect finall beatitude is to be had in this life was one of the errours of the Bogards and Beguins religious men and women in Germany censured as I remember in the councell of Vienna under Pape Clement the fift The Bogards suffred for their obstinacy whereat the women afrighted submitted themselvs and remain to this day living honestly in a society wthout emission of any vow so that when they pleas they may go forth and marry V. The same partys said that an intellectuall natur is blessed naturally in it self It had been well they had remembred that the grace of God is life eternall Rom. 6. VI. The Armenians taught that no soul is beatified before doomsday as also some Greeks adding that sinners are not punisht till that day This is the opinion Pope John the 22. propounded to the University of Paris But it was gainsayed by the councel of Florence under Pope Eugenius the fourth as contrary to the churches beleef and the Scripture it self does in a manner expresly refute it We know if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolved we have a hous not made by hands eternall in the heavens 2 Cor.