your wordes arâ no warrantes ⪠you say I dispise him because he aâfirmeth that he is a Prophet sent of God his person I hate not onely his doctrine and vaine prophesyes I vtterly mislyke and most of all because many of this our natiue countrye of ângland are by him and his vayne prophesies deluded and deceaued and being moued with zeale for my brethren and countreymen I haue bent my selfe with such poore sâill as I haue to vtter his follyes and vaintyes there be many learned in Christ his Church farre better ab e to haue written hereof to whose office it properly belongeth to clense the Church being defiled with heresies yet I take y man to be none ⪠of the Church of Christ that thinketh he hath no office in his Church Yf I dislyke him because hââarth he is a Prophet c. I haue great reason and good warrant so to doe Iere. chap. 23. verse 16. sayth Heare âot the wordes of the Prophetes which prophesie vnto you vaâitye they speake the ãâã of their owne âart and not the ãâã of the Lord we are also warned by Christ and his Apostles not to geue credit to such vaine Prophets and false teachers Peter Epistle 2. chap. 12. There shall be false teachers among you which priuily shall bring iâ damnable heresies euen denying the Lord that hath bought theÌ with infinite places more Since Christ our Lord asceÌded into heauâââ office of prophesing ⪠and foretelling of thingeâ haue ceased in the Church onely the Apostles were ãâã with the spirite of God and by the power of the same spirite foretold of many thinges that should happenâ but it ceased ãâã many haue risen vp and haue prowdly prophessed but they ãâã ben conââned as false Prophetes euen as your HN. ãâã âou say the tyme may come thaâ I shall âinde his prophesies true you put the tyme vncertaine but you haue told your Familye in corners as I am ãâã informed that many of your prophets sayinges should eare thiâ haue bin fulââlled touching the publick receiuing of your âoctrine which are proued false and vntrue although I ãâã beleue it yet I ought not to dispise it you say why I ought to beleue it you render no reason we are forbidden to credite any such as I haue proued In y I ought not to dispise it I pray you shew some cause â tho vanitye tâat be âttereth touching ⪠hiââââference with almighty God ⪠how the power of God coÌpassed him âbout with a ãâ¦ã c. and agayne hâ sayth thâ being of God gaue forth his sound ãâã and spake vnto âe HN. through the spirite of his Loue all thesâ wordes and sayd ãâã there was neâeââny that writ in Christes Church that euer vsed any such vayne and prowde speach I hauâ sayd y it is requisitâ that HN. if he will needeâ haue his new office of a Prophet to be credited that he must worke miracles ⪠which it semeth he doeth as some in your Familye in sadnâs haue tould amongest other matters this is auouched that NH is not ignoraunt in any language no not the learned tongues he hath written an âpistle vnto the Byshops here in ângland in latin I thinke he hath his knowledge and learning by some bequest as a legacy also it was affirmed to me of credit that some of the Familye going ouer into Flaunders to him be tould them of all their message and instructions before they spake such markes and notes you geue out to your Familye to establishe your blinde Prophet You say I ought not to dispise the Dutch language wherein the Lord hath broughâ forth his most holy seruice of Loue. To dispise any language I may not onely in coÌparison of other learned tongues I haue sayd it is rude And was there no seruice of God before among other nations but now brought forth in the Dutch tongue I would that there were no more heresies brought forth in the Dutch tongue but onely this of Nâ but it is knowen to many learned y sundry heresies are written and published in that language to the griefe of God his children You further say that I neuer councelled with the Lord therefore know nothing of his secreates You sat vpon your iudgement seat when you writ this how know you that I neuer couÌelled with the Lord to councell with God wée may as we are taught that is in praying and hearing of his most holy word which I hope in the Lord that euer he will guide me with his holy spirite to doe and performe all the dayes of my lyfe as for your secret Reuelations and Prophesyes I am vtterly ignoraunt of they are things proper to your Familye but not to the Church of Christ. Vitel. MOreouer you writ not right where as you call it his Euangeliâum Râgnâ yet doth Saint Paule say âf ouâ Gospell be âid it is from them that be lost whole minde the God of this world hath blinded c. For it iâ not writteÌ his and you finde fault with the pooâe Family of Loue as though thây dâny it âiâh theiâ mouth keepe it ãâã in their haâtâ but you confesse the Lord ⪠ãâã your mouth and your hart is fâll of bitternes and euen so you deny him with your hart and mouth Aunswere I Haue called a booke which H N. hath published his gospel because it is another and not agreeing with Christ his gospel therfore rightly termed his You would excuse it by saint Paule as though HN. had as good right to wryte and publish a gospel as that shining vessel S. Paul. Whether will you lift vp your prophet so high that with Lucifer he may be cast down as low we are warned not to credite any bringing another gospell he is accursed as sayth the holy ghost there was neuer any godly man since the Apostles time that durst be so presumptuous as intitle any broke and call it a gospell ' therefore your Author hath dealt therin presumptuously and wickedly Now whereas I find fault with the poore Family in affirming denying I would I had not some cause so to doo but where you ad this word poore if it be so you are the cause therof for with your manyfold collections to set out the Authors works you haue in dâede made many an honest wealthy housholder poore as I can testifie and name the parties and you haue beene charged herewith before this time You say moreouer that I confesse the Lord with my mouth deny him with my hart If this be true then am I worthy great reprehention but if it be false then are you worthy the reward of a lyar and slaunderer In deede it is somewhat gréenous vnto you and your patience can scarce beere it that I haue so openly manifested you and your Author yet therin I confesse I haue done nothing but my duety which I owe vnto the church of Christ that the simple may be warned of your suttle snares and deceits wher with
will not ioy nor rest in peace vntill all your errors be disclosed and âou and your fellowes be brought to âumble your selues before the Lord without your HN. which the Lord bring spedely to passe Amen Vitell. NOw must I for want of tyme passe ouer and omit many thinges and submit my cause vnto the almighty desiring him of his goodnes for to try our cause in his ballaunâe of equitye euen with the Loue and trueth for so shall there then be expressed and testified by the light or Christ that Gods honour is declared with the Loues seruice most sincerely Aunswere THis Libel was not long enough but he muââ oâât much matter and so as he sayth submit his cause vnto the almighty c. âut if you did as becoÌmeth a true Christian you should not onely submit your cause vnto the Lord who in patience suâfreth Ipocrites to trouble his Church but also submit your doctrine to be tryed and iudged by his holy word which is a iust iudge in all causes of controuersy For if your protestation shall be admitted without exception theÌ euill doers and blasphemers of God and Christ may haue liberty to referre their cause vnto the Lord but since almighty God hath in earth a knowen Church it is requisite that euery one being required should geue account of his fayth and hope as the scriptures doe teach you would haue your cause tryed in the ballaunce of equitye a truer ballance is not then his law which is without blot or wrinkle if you would abide the tryall thereof your doctrine and your patrone HN. should be found lighter then vanitye it selfe Where you adde with the Loue trueth the Loue you so often confound that you know not your selues the meaning thereof sometyme you wil signifie Christ by that name loue sometime a vertue procéeding sometyme a qualitye of the minde sometyme for the exercise which you priuately vse where to finde the exposition of this word Loue you leue it as vncertaine then it shall be expressed you say by the light or Christ that by you God his honor is declared with the Loues seruice sincerely here is Loue agayne ioyned with seruice which cannot meane as I thinke any thing âlls but God his seruice I take it in the best part if you haue any other more secret misterye therein I leaue to your selues but touching any seruice you doe to God it is Ipocrysye so long as you serue him without Christ or with any other and Christ for he will admit no other to haue place in mens hartes but himselfe he made all he requireth all Vitell. OH what a dauÌgerous tyme is it presently in these last dayes and how vnrightly haue many vnregenerated men set vp themselues to geue iudgement with their good thinking For whatsoeuer euery one mindeth thinketh good and electeth âther falleth to that same prayseth and iudgeth he for the most best and for a righteousnes thereto also he wresteth the scripture according to his will for the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one euen as he is minded be it whatsoeuer to be high minded in pleasant lustes either to be debased in misery to be merây or sorowfull with sighing either with thankes to be despised and persecuted or to persecute and despise one an other and many such lyke c. Answere OF the dauÌgerous tyme we are not ignorant of and more we tell you that you and your fellowes make the tyme much more daungerous and troublesome with your errors which HN. and you haue raysed vp Now you complayne that vnregenerat men haue set vp themselues you meane by vnregenerat men all others which are not illuminat nor deifâed as your Elders are The children of God for whome Christ dyed whose names are written in the booke of lyfe are regenerate although as I haue sayd before you account none to be regenerat but such as haue no motions of sinne or sinne not but you say that the same vnregenerat men with their good thinking ⪠that same he prayseth and iudgeth for righteousnes but who might worse alledge the same then you who câmmând without reason or cause your Auâhor and his moÌstrous doâtrinâ which hath in it such grosse absurdââyes and most contrary to God and his word and you are they that peâuert the scripture to set vp your Prophet and his doctrine and what is spoken of Christ doe you not wickedly apply the same to your HN. doe you not apply this place of Malarhy chap. 3. which our Sauiour Christ verefied to be propesied of Iohn behold I will send my messenger which shall prepare the way before me Againe Math. 11. he shall turne the hart of the Fathers to the children and the hartes of the children c. doe you not I say apply these places to signifye your HN. and that it is ment by him therefore there are none found such wresters of the scriptures as you And where as you affirme that the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one therein you shew what reuerence you haue vnto y same for although you such others do abuse the scripture contrary to y purpose of y holy ghost yet are the scriptures y wisedome of God reuealed to man and is a perfit law of righteousnes and not as you vngodly and vnreuerently tearme it seruiceable vnto euery one Your companions the Papistes haue as you doe called the scripture a nose of ware a shipmans hose c. but most wickedly and falsely to both your confusions it is the power of God vnto saluatioÌ Vnto them that beleue the sauour of lyfe vnto lyfe but vnto such as you are which so vnreuerently speake thereof it is the sauor of death vnto death the scriptures doe not maintayne pleasant lustes nor high mindes as you vnreuerently suppose but they are to comfort and lift vp the sorrowfull and broken mindes and to beate downe and correa the hauty and proud stomackes If vngodly men such as you are abuse them to other purposes the fault is in the persons not in the word Vitell. WHereunto euery one wresteth the scripture and defendeth his cause therewith insomuch that euery one thinketh that he for his part hath the most best Behold with such a misery is the man plagued such manner of good thinking and vnprofitable burthen hath he taken vpon him oh that we left all such and gaue ouer our vnderstanding captiue ether suffred it to be pluâkt vnder the obedience of the loue of Iesu Christ and followed after the coÌmon brotherly loue innocently or vndeceitfully and continued concordably in prayer vnto God âl that God receiued vs to mercy released vs froÌ the sin of the ignorant knowledge and established his promise on vs to the laud prayse and honor of his holy name and to our saluation Aunswere YF euery one wrest the scripture where shall wee finde Christ his Church who is led by the spirite of trueth according to his promise thâ greatest wresters of
all others And some of those bookes haue come into my hands whom you tearme enuious and diuelled with the diuell Strange Doctrine must néedes haue strange tearmes Your iudgement of me and master Batman we wil only answere with this saying The Lord geue you a better minde and a more modest spirite I would you were as free from heresies and false doctrine as we are from a diuilish mind You affirme we haue blasphemed the holy Ghost and his elect minister HN. Here is sharpe iudgement and such as should not be in any of Christ his church this doth well become you âlders in HN. his Family Surely if there were no other matter in y woâld to discerne your doctrine by your own poysoned words would bewrap your spirit of what housholde you are of The childreÌ of God do know that you are herein manifest and wicked liars but you haue no pleasure in such workers of wickednes and no maruayle being come to that perfection that you are we poore sinners are despised in your sight but our hope is in the lord Iesus who doth not despise sinners but for vs he shed his bloud and for you which are so righteous in whom no motion of sinne can be found I doubt doth this saying appertayne I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance Vitell. THis blasphemous Bateman with his slauÌdering and lying blasphemeth the holy ghost For he nameth the Familye of Loue a cormorant âowle and an hereticall sect whereas notwithstanding there is no Catholick Church nor comminalâye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue and therein he condeÌneth the holy scripture the law the Prophâts and also Christ and his Apostles â moreouer he sayth that the Lord his elected Minister HN. is of seede of sectaries whereas his doctrine is altogether agaynst all sectaryes Aunswere TO Follow a little of your Rethorick you forget both Christianitye and humanitye so intemperate you are in your blasphemous tearmes because Master Bateman calleth your Familye of Loue a cormorant âowle doth it follow that he is a blasphemer of the holy ghost this is such a consequence as best becomes your schoole and your franticke humors are thereby made knowen to the World. Men would not thinke that such speach should proceede from the âlders of the Family this were two much âf your youÌg nouices should in their brauâes and conâiâions vse but you to wright such vngodly and vncomely speach aduisedly it cannot be colored by any shaddow of wordes touching Maister Bateman he is a learned reuârent and godly preacher neither can your vngodly tearmes once blemish neither his person nor his calling I would you did follow that vocation and calling wherein you were once placed no worse then Maister BatemaÌ doth his calling in discharge wherof you nor none of your Familye can iustly reprehend him neither in lyfe nor doctrine which is sufficient testimony of his demeanour For iâ you had any thing to accuse him of you would not conceale it ⪠so bitter are your stomakes as appeareth by your vngodly tearmes Whereas you say that there is no catholicke Church bât the Familye of Loue this is as straânge as your other wordes are horrible and monstrous For where was your Familye before Dauid George or HN. were borne some of your hereâies in déâde were maintayned before by Pellagians by ânabaptistes by Papistes and such lyke but your generall doctrine was neuer patcht together but of late by HN. in Flaunders a place as apt to brede errors as you are to brochâ them in condemning HN. you woulâ haue the world beleue that Maister Bateman condemneth the lawe the Prophetes Christ and his Apostles With what impudent face can you aâoâch this must ãâã credit your owne woâdes and testimonyes onely because you say your doctrine commeth from Sion Christ hath instructed his Church sufficiently to credit no such Fables An other reason you produce that Maister Bateman doth accuse HN. to be of the seede of certaine sectaris and to cleare him thereof you âay that his doctrine is altogâher agaynst all sectaryes It is the mannâr of impious persoââ to flee the âanies of the facultâe they vse as the theese the murtherer thâ harlot the dronkerd or such lyke they would not be called by those names which viâes they imbâace for it is odious vnto theÌ so you to clâare HN. of partaking with sondry sectes doe affirme that he is agaynât all sectaryes that he as a master oâ sectaryes might be alone But this aunswere is not sufficient to cleare HN. to be voyd of heresis and sectes ât were expedieÌâ sor his purgaâion that he should publish vnto the world if he dealt playnely a boke to approue his calling and shew vs in plaine speach that his doctrine is sound and agreeing vnto the scriptures otherwise he may deceaue irroneous heads such as you are but God his children I hope will take heede of your âollyes Vitell. NOw euen lyke as the forenamed Bateman hath slaundered HN. euen so doe you also I. R. For you say that HN. was thought to be the chiefe of Dauid Georges sect after his death and so you doe slaunder him by presupposing for I know they be false imagiââtions all what you imagine of him for you dispise him because he sayth he is a Propheâ sent of god But the tyme may come that you shâl âinde his Propheâie true and although you cannot beleue it yet you ought not to despise it neither ought you to despise the dutch languaâe which you count to be rude wheâein the Lord through his Minister âN hath brought fourth his most holy seruice of loue For I know you neuer counceled with the Lââd and therefore you know nothing of his seâretes Aunswere WHerein I haue slaundered your Aucthor âN in supposing him to be chiefe of Dauid Georges sect you show no reason to the contrary you affirme that alike we haue slaundered him and I thinke euen so For neither of vs haue slaundered him in deâd as âarre as I can vnderstand to cleare him of accusation you onely say all iâ false what I haue supposed of him you thinke that is inough among your Familye for your word among theâ is of some credit but it beâoueth you should by substantiall reasons cleare him of such matter as I haue charged him with your bare denyall with vs is not sufficient for the creâite of your Aucthor ⪠you should say somewhat by your silence and bare denyall men doe verely thinke the supposition is very true That he was one of Dauid âeorges sect I haue laid downe the reasons that moued me so to thinke in a little booke called the displaying of the Familye of Loue amongest other reasons there alledged I set downe certayne articles oâ the coherence and agreement of doctrine and how lykely they agree together by perusing the same may be perceaued whereunto this man thinkes it sufficient for him to say all is false what I haue imagined agaynst him but
scarce credible But at âmden from that day to this opeÌly he durst not be séene therefore some other matter was layd to his charge then professing a strange doctrine For his credite sake it had beâ conuenient to haue geuen some reason to proue that he was accused for no other cause let the world iudge indifferently where is more probabilitye Vitell. ANd after there was iustice desired then they restored agayne his goodes vnto his children but there was much taking away by the vntrue officers for there was no inuitory taken therof but whether he went and where he had his abode that shall in tyme be manifest when as the Lord shall moue the hartes of the Magesââates to desâre to know the ground of the trueth then shall it all be declared to them but the trueth thereof is yet vnknowen vnto you therefore you may be content and not trouble your selfe therwiâh Answere THe Magâstrates you say redeâiuered hââ goodes to his children therfore they were men that imbraced Iustice and so would they haue ministred Iustice to HN. If he would â stayd but the safest way was to preuent the matter by flight you are very âriuye to HN. and his doingâs that can so redely tell what was missing now the Magestrates here shall know the trueth where he is and where he hath made his abode euer since but sure it is little to be regarded where he is and I thinke the Magestrates doe hartely wishe that he had neuer ben borne nor you neither he for deuising your new familye and you for publishing the same to our countrye and translating tâe bookes which certainly was not done lyke a godly ChristâaÌ nor a true ânglish harted man For in âeede as I am informed you are of the Dutch race your selfe and so appearâth by your vaine and curious hed salling froÌ one error to another as those countrymen are apt vnto âf the boâkâs had remained in dutch our quiet Country should neuer haue âin troubled with this new familye to the griefe oâ God his childreÌ whiâh bewaile y state that you haue brought many vnto at this day veye well assured that although ye lurke in corners and send fourth your Libels you cannot escape his handes who seeth euery corner of our hartes And as HN. by slight would not abide the triall of his matter euen so doe ye follow the same course sayle rightly by his compas for stand to your doctrine nor come to conference you dare not but priuily insinuat your doctrine where your wordes are taken for Oracles The Magestrates would gladly that you should geue a reason more agreable to truth of your dealinges and doctrine as for HN. where he became or where he is they little passe and wheâe you say that to me the trueth is vnknowen it may be as you say neither will I trouble my selfe much therein but that you of his Familye might imbrace trueth is my chiefe purpose which cannot be in my opinion holding your selues captiue to the illusions of HN. Vitell. FVrthermore you say that he doth cal himselfe Restorer of al things whereunto I aunswere that there is no suâh word written by him and yet hath thâ Lord accomplished according to his promises through the âpiriââ of Christ in him all that he hath spoken through the mouth of his seruauntâs the Prophets more where you say that HN. cannot erre or miââe the right c. I know not how hee or any one should erre whiâhâ is indewed with the holy Ghost led by the spiâite of Christ which leadeth into all trueth Aunswere THat he doth so call himselfe I haue written therein as I âinde it collected by the commissioners who delt specially in that matter but you affirme as much or more of him then I charged him with For you say that the Lorde âath accomplished through the spirite of Christ in him all that he hath spoaken through the mouth of his Prophetes and this we thinke to be very straingely auouched of you contrary to trueth the Prophecyes of such whome the Lord raysed vp to coÌfort the weake estate of his Church in the tyme of the law were fulfilled in their seasons especially such prophesyes as either touched the captiuitye of the Iewes or the destruction of their Citie also many of their prophesies concerned the comming of our merciful Messias the maner of his byrth passion death and resurrection Now to affirme that all these are fulfilled in ââ is very horââble and moÌstrous but such is your vanitye that so you may extoll the dignitye of your Aucthor you care not what vntruthes ioyned with blasphemye you vtter the lyke speach HN. auoucheth of himselfe saying what God hath spoken âhrough hâs holy Prophets what is written of Châist should also in vs and with vs beâome fâlâilled c. âow you are able by any shaddow of trueth to proue anâ of these two sayinges true it had bin requisite that you should a shewed for they carry great absurdityes both in trueth and reason Whether doe you lift vp your Aucthor by such vntrue speaches it doth appeare very lamentable to all God his children this is proude bosting and exaltation such as S. Paule did warne the Church to take heede of such I doe much maruell that Christian men with any face can write thus presumpteouslye of mortall man although you would qualisye your saying that this is brought to passe by the spirite of Christ in him but this helpeth not neither doth it stand with the will of God reueled that any mortall creature should be so exalted For if we should demaund of you how we shall know this to be true then you aunswere by his workes which I thinke you meane his bookes Yf otherwise you meane some miraculous dealing which you are priuy of and not knowen it were necessary for his credit and your honesty not to hide it any longer but simply to manifest the same Moreouer you say that none can erre which are indued with the holy ghost c. We know that the spirite leadeth into al trueth yet those vessels hauing by grace such priuiledge doe often in shew and countenaunce appeare as though the spirite were queÌâhed or as fire raked vp in ashes example here of Peter who hauing the spirite of God yet did thingâs contrary to trueth and therefore was rebuked by Paule and that worthely many in Christ his Church no dout haue bin guided by the spirite of God and yet sometymes haue shewed theÌselues humane creatures as wanting that excellent priuiledge appropriate to Christ which sayd I am trueth such is our condition we may not reach higher not to erre is a speciall title belonging to Christ our Lord and not to mortall man although lightened with the spirite we must rest conteÌt with such honor as it pleaseth him to graunt who is Lord of his creatures and not to reach so high as presumpteously to chalenge a title and dignity farre aboue our capacitye and not
illuminate Elders in the Family sinne not you deny it not but wish y I knew what I sayd you say that they preuayl with God ouer sinne But we deny that any preuayle with God ouer sin otherwise then in the person of Christ. And herein you teach false docârine to the people For your wordes are false that we preuaile with God and Christ ouer sinne Nay we affirme that we preuaile with God by Christ which accepteth vs for his sake and although you acknowledge neuer so much that this is brought to passe by Christ in vs yet we tell you playne that it standeth not with his good will and pleasure so to do but that contynually we should be petitioners to him for grace to keep vnder sinne that sinne raigne not in vs that sinne beare not rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs as the Scriptures vse to spâake but that we preuayle against sinne so that we extinguish it in our own persons It is a doctrine of Sathan and not froÌ the lord In this and the like doctrine doth your Author and you shew a manifest pâoofe whence your errors are suckt euen from the Pope who teacheth that we may fulfill the law If it be so then may we be righteous by it and haue no neede of christ Such hereticall and imptous doctrine contrary to the scriptures you teach and therfore your Author and you worthely despysed The Pope in his doctrine of Opera superââ ãâã and you with your doctrine of perfection to be wrought in vs in this life do so extenuat the death and passion of our Lord and Sauyour Christ that the poore oppressed burthened sinner loaden and âroning vnder the burthen of sinne can finde smal comfort Therfore the church of christ grounded vpon the Prophetes and Apostles Christ Iesus being the chiefe corner stone of this foundation doubt not in truth and humilitie of spirite to acknowledge still iâ vs while we are in this life a battaile or combat against sinne to striue to fight but not to conquere to tryumph or to preuayle but by faith in Christ in whose person we conquere we tryumph and we preuayle So that to be ouercome or be subdued vnder sin we cannot because we haue a valiant and most victorious conqueror who still imputeth his conquest and victory ours yet so as sinne and the motions therof still remayn in âs to our great exercise that feeling our wââknes our want and our need we âight in our necessitye haue recââse vnto our Captayn our Sauyour and delyuerer But that we in our persons should pâeuayle ãâã sinne as you affirmed is false wicked and damnable doctrine but such fauour hath falsed with you that you greedely embrace this as though Christ or his Apostles had taught it whereas it is against all the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles and against all examples in the scriptures David sayth ãâ¦ã S. Paul sayth Christ Iesus came into y world to saue sinners of y which number I am the greatest if doing our best we must acknowledge our selues vnprofitable seruauntes where is become your doctrine of perfection neuer heard of in Christ his Church our âumayne state and condition is so lifted vp and stast with pride by your doctrine of perfection that penitent sinners find smal grace in whom you impute scarce hope of saluation except they attayne the perfection on whome shall Christ hys death take place to whome shal the vertue thereof extend if none shal be saued but such as be perfect in whome no sinne resteth or remayneth you take away all comfort from sinners to whome the Gospell belongeth and our onely comfort in distresse the effect wherof by this your doctrine is denied miserably do you herein deceaue your setuâs and other They that haue pleasure in sinnâ are seruaunts to sinne as you affirme but to haue pleasure in sinne that sinn raygne in vs or haue dominion ouer vs continually we affirme that they are markeâ and tokens not of the children of good but contrary yet we doubt not to âââirme the remnants the motions lustâ and roÌcupiscence incident to our frayle nature still to lurke in our bodyes notwithstanding we be in the fauour with God and made righteous by Christ his death and passion for so it standeth with his good wil and pleasure that his grace should be made perfect through our weaknes Therefore you with your doctrine of perfection doe extenuate his death as much as in you lyeth We are not in humbling our selues enemies vnto y lord but you by exalting your selues except ye repent will be taken enemies both to God and all good men Your schollers in the Family doe blame vs in their wrytings affirme that we in confessing our imperfections ⪠and sinnes which contynually doe assault vs dayly and hourely We are as they say ⪠Aduocates for sinue and you teaching a perfection are mainteners of righteousnes but more truely may it be sayd of you that you with your perfection are enemies to y grace of God manifest to vs by Christ Iesuâ our Lord and do thereby blaspheme as much as in you lyeth the glory of hys passion and death appropriate only to sinners you may with the pharasies brag of your perfection and obseruation of the law but we comfort ourselues with these and the lyke sayings of holy Scripture Christ Iesus came into the world to saue sinners So God loued the world that he gaue his onely begotteÌ sonne c Behold the lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world c. Vitell. FArther you say they may ioyne with any congregatioÌ or Church and liue vnder the obedience of any Maiestrâte It is true we are obedient vnto all Maiestrates where wee dwell for âhe peaces cause and obserue their politick ordinances which are to a good protectioÌ of their subiectes ââd the land but we consent not vnto any thing which is agaynst God or hys commaundements also we accompâ none vngodly but such aâ obstiâatly blaspheme the Lord hys ordiââunces and despise his most holy seruice of loue although they be ignoraunt of the waye vnto lyfe For we confesse that there is no man righteousnes vntill the Lord deliuer hym from his vnrighteousnesse and through hys Christ make hym righteous and then may he say that the Lord is hys righteousnes Aunswere THat you may ioyne with any Church c. I did affirme beyng led by many reasons so to do for you perswaded many in Queene Maries raigne to go to Masse your brethren in Flaunders which are of your Family do the lyke you also with vs come to Church and ioyne with vs in praier in âeuing thanks in heâring the worde preached c. Yet hauâ you priuate conuântickles and meetings forbidden by the law wherin you shewe not your obedience to the Maiestrates aâ you affirme but your wilfull stubburnes and frowardnes you ioyne with all to wyne all but more iustly you flatter
with all to deceaue all How do you obserue the politik ordinaunce of the Maiestrate in printing your bookes and publishing them to the Queenes subiectes contrary to the law made in that behalf your obedience cânsisteth in wordes but not in ãâã âhârefore with more truth you might saye we will not be obedient to Maiâstrates In that you coÌdescend âoâ iâ anye thing contrary to God c. Therin you say well but I would you were found herein true of your promise for then your HN. and hys doctrine with hys prophesies should not haue such credit amoÌg you as appeareth if his doctrine be not directly agaynst the Lorde our God and hys commaundementes I apeale vnto the iudgement of all God his Children that shall reade these conferences You accompt none vngodly but such as blaspheme the Lord and despise his most holy seruice of loue Whome you accompt blasphemers before is declared iâ any speake aagaynst your HN. or your Family of loue Ipso faâto he is a blasphemer then all the worlde which doe despise your Familye are blasphemers your conclusion must needes fall out euen so whereby appeareth what reuerent opinion you haue of any and of al that are not of your Family if you learned this of HN. consider better of it for very shame of y worldâ if no reuereÌce nor feare of God can moue you You confesse that there is no man righteous vntill the Lord deliuer him froÌ hys vnrighteousnes but howe we are deliuered you wee greatly vary we according vnto the holy Scripture do acknowledge Christ to be our righteousnes which he hath wrought perfectly in him selse which by fayth wee apply to our vnrighteousnes hys obedieÌce his loue his pacience c. we by fayth apply to our disobedience to our hatred to our impacience c. all what was in Christ is made ours by grace yet still wee in our earthen vessels are coârupt sinâull and vâyde oâ anye suche vertues as the law requireth But âou on the contrarye affirme that by Christ working in vs by hys spirite we are made righteous and so clensed from our vnrighteousnes that we are chaunged into hys perfection so that in all our actions wordes and thoughts nothing can âlow oâ pâocâede from vs but sucâe as procâede ârom Christ because we are guyded by the same spirite but whether you or wee speake truth let the holy Scriptures beare witnesse then may be say that the Lord is his righteousnes it is very true but how and in what manner the Lord may be sayd to be our righteousnes is to be vnderstoode we acknowledge y hee in hys owne person is our righteousnes and sanctificatioÌ but you will haue hys righteousnes wrought in you by his spirtie the difference coÌsisteth in the maâer we acknowledge in him all strength all piety all obedience and in our selues all weakenes all vngodlinesse and all disobedience but you will needes haue all in all to be in vs whiche to much blemisheth hys glory and triumph if we shoulde also in our persons triumph our triumph standeth not in doing but in beleeuing in him which did Therefore as you haue charged vs wrongfully to be aduocats for sinne so may we rightly call yâu Patrons for our corrupt rotten and earthen vessels Vitell. MOre you are offended at the confession of the Familye of Loue vnderstand the matter well that there is no man coÌpelled therevnto but if any one be wounded or trobled in his coÌscience then he may to his coÌfort make his euel thoughts or els what manifest vnto a priest or Elder aâcording vnto the counsell of the holy scripture Also I thinke it is an ordinauÌce in the Church of England that if any one be troubled in minde he shall come and aske counsell of the person or minister and I thinke he must then make manifest his thoughtes c. And the Catholiâk ReligioÌ holdeth thought word and deede but there are many that will compell men to deâlare their thoughts ⪠whiâh ãâã nââther pâiestes nor Ministers of the âord Aunswere TOuching your coÌfessioÌ which âou acknowledge to be voluntary and not coaâted I haue signified my dislyking your Auâthor HN. doâh say it is expedient that they of his Familye make maniâest all that hath bin coÌmitted both what it is wherevnto our nature draweth vs vnto here it apppeareth ⪠if you follow your Author directly he leueth the matter not so voluntary as of necessitye And this must be done as you say vnto a pâiest or Elder to please the Papitles I thinke you haue added this worde priest but we tell you that such manner of confession the scriptures allow not of if any be wounded in conscieÌce he may to his comfort repayre to any godly or learned preacher âo shew his griefe and to receaue counsell and comfort to his consolation by the scripture agaynst the prick of conscience or the law which troubleth many miÌs mindes but that of necessitye he must make manifest all thoughts all what our nature doth incline vnto there is no warrant what ordinaunce is in the Church of England you haue not shewed but that he must of necessitye make manifest his thoughts it is vntrue it is left frââ onely by way of perswasion men are moued to repaire in such extremitye to their learned and godly pastors and by no ordinaunce but this appeareth that you accompt not your selfe as any member of this Church of England no maruell for you holde it more safe to professe HN. his Familye then to be an obedient child of Christ his Church Whereof England is a speciall part What the Catholick religion holdeth touching confession is no cloke to shaddow your dealinges with all for we tell both you and them that such a confession as both you and they hold is not agrâeing with trueth The Papistes vrge men and accompt them heretickes that deny it and you hold it as an expedient thinge neither haue you both any warrant so to doe Some doe compell men to declare their thoughtes which are neither priestes nor ministers as you affirme who they are you tell vs not yet I suppose you meane the coÌmissioners who âxamining your Familye touching their fayth and doctrine found them so suttle by your instructioÌs that in y end they required theÌ to declare their knowledge what they thought of their Author HN. and I thinke the Magistrate authorised by the Prince may in such cases require vs to maniâest what opinion we haue of any Author or what we thinke of him but you haue taught them to say we know him not and therefore to commend him or discommend him wee may not such sleightes you deuise wheÌ the Magistrats requireth a trueth at your handes and here is also declared your obedieÌce to rulers your Elders are safe when the poore country people are brought before the Magistrates but when will any of you the âlders come voluntarily and defend your doctrine and proue it good by souÌd argumeÌt it
now he beginneth to be knowen and by the great credit and admiration you haue him in the more detestable will he be reputed as a seducer of such men as cannot content themselues wiâh such trueth as the scriptures containe but must haue a Prophét raysed vp out of FlauÌders a banished man and one that dare not shew his face in any countrey openly and you had rather imbrace his noueltyes then the wholsome doctrine conteyned in the olde and new testament Vitell. NOw concerning his bookes they be of such Aucthoritye as he affirmeth them but where as you say that he sayth all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught c. marke wel what he writeth and adde nothing thereto and it shall be found true what he writeth more where as you say he commendeth the Pope and Cardenalls with the Masse and other ceremonyes there is none commended but in their right order if you marke the matter well Answere HIs bookes I affirmed that they were in crâdite amongest the familye of equall auâhoritye with the scriptures and that they were written with the same spirite to this you auÌswere that they are of such aucthoritye as he hath affirmed thereforâ note well what you say for neuer any since the Apostles tunes had so impudent a face as openly to publish such a detestable lye if this come not from the spirite of pride I know no proud bosting spirites all the Fathers in the primitiue Church euer reuerenced the holy scripture and submitted all their bookes thereunto Austen desired not to be credited or beleued but as his workes might agree with the holy scriptures all men in generall haue euer acknowledged themselues in their writinges to be subiect to error onely the scripture to be without blemish but this man will haue HN. and his bookes of equall aucthoritye with the scriptures written with the same spirite thus doe you runne from one impietye to an other and in the highest degree of blasphemye But I pray you looke vpon the matter better before you say he is a prophet now his bookes are of equal aucthoritye with the scripture whether will you lift vp your HN. aboue all condition of fraile man the higher he is exalted the more greuous will be his fall without repentaunce it is Luciferian pride thus to attribute vnto mortall man but you make HN to be a name of office and not of a creature such misteryes requireth falced where trueth and simplicitye imbraceth playne dealing Now you say that HN. doth auouch all to be false whatsoeuer is taught by any other therefore heare his owne wordes and then discerne and sée God his trueth and his godly and heauenly workes are vnknowen vnto all fleshe and vnto all fleshly and earthly men but it is geuen to the children of the kingdome the comminaltye of the Loue to vnderstand the secret misteryes thereof You say it will be found true what he writeth If none but the comminaltye or Familye of Loue doe vnderstaÌd the scripture then it was not rightly vnderstode before there was any mention of your Familye Now for commendatioÌ of the Pope Cardinals and Masse he sayth hee commendeth none buâ in his right order this speach is ambigâus in his right order For simply I thinke none of them haue any shaddow of right order neither is their callinges nor doctrine grounded vpon either right or good order Your Author belyke alloweth the Masse or els he would not haue taken such paynes as to explicat euery ceremonye therein in his booke called A declaratioÌ of the Masse but thus with subtiltye of speach you would faine say somewhat to defend your Author be his sayinges neuer so monstrous Vitell. FOr in that booke named a ioyfull message of the kingdome of God Christ though ye deâidingly call it his gospell is declared that âPapa signifieth an olde Father in the holy vndeâstanding Now althogh he be not indued with the holy vnderstaÌding yet is the name not the worse in it selfe For the Lord hath ordeined gouernours spirituall and temporall and they represent the maiestye of God although now certayne gouernours gouerne not according to the rule of righteousnes yet is not therefore the name euerthelesâe of reputation because it is an ordenance of God therefore let vs despise no name that belongeth to gouernours neither yet also any gouernour nor any man els for we haue all sinned haue neede of the grace or mercy of the Lord. Answere THe booke in lattin is called EuaÌgelium Regnâ gospell of the kingdome but this man is the translator thereof and hath qualified it calling it a ioyfull message of the kingdome the title is arrogant and presumptuous the doctrine therein worse as will appere in print ere it be long the pope hath found among manâ enemies one freÌd although his doctrine is spokeÌ against euery where yet this maÌ would gladly képe and retayne his bare name belonging to a gouernour in office we coÌdeme not the name his doctrine not agrââing with the word is by the same word condemned so is yours For significations of names ⪠wâe will not contend a part of your deuinity lyeth therein neither do wee despise any name but is euell doctrine be shadowed or vnder any name cloked then wee inuey agaynst the doctrine vsing the name as wheÌ inuectiues are made agaynst the Pope or HN. it is not ment of the persons but of the doctrine And surely the Pope did neuer exercise so great a Popedome in the West Church as your HN. a new Pope doth among you of his Familye and as the papistes which tooth and nayle seeke to maintayne euery absurd and senceles part of the popes doctrine with all their power witte and skill EueÌ so do ye of his Family maintayne your Nâ and whatsoeuer vnsauery doctrine he teacheth it maâ not be discredited nor he cannot therein erre or misse the right in such reputation haue you placed mortall man. You say we all haue sinned haue need of y grace or mercy of the Lord y all haue sinned you truely confes but that all doe dayely sinne you cannot beleue especially you the ââders of the holy vnderstandinâ but in humilitye of spirite you and wee ought to coÌfesse not onely that we haue sinned but dayely and hourely do sinne and haue neede not onely of his grace but his mercy also although you speake of grace or mercy but wee craue his grace and mercy his grace to guide vs and his mercy to deliuer vs. Vitell. MOreouâr you are greatly offended because hee sayeth that none shold take iâ haÌd to teach or preach but the illuminate elders whiâh arâ Godded with God or incoâpoâatâd to God and with whom also God in one being and power of his spirite is hominisied or become man And those you call proud speaches and because âN vseth them ye despise him althoughe they be no strange words or speches in thâ dutâh language ⪠therfore in so doing you despiâe the
acknowledge themselues to be felow Elders with the Elder HN. and magnifie his office and calling abouâ measure and protest with great vehemency that such wonderfull workes as are brought forth through the same HN. could not be wrought unles the Lord God were with him And these strange names of their Elders do maruelously astonish our English people Elidad as I haue learned is an Hebruâ word and signyfieth dilecâus Dei. the beloued of God which is a proper title belonging to our Sauiour Christ. This is my beloued sonne c. And that we generally are in him and by him beloued there is no dout so is be still the beloued And that some of their Elders name themselues Fidelitas so others that belike are not come to so high degree name theÌselueâ Amatores Charitatis It is a world to see how these men delite in such vayne shewes of piety and thinke to get credite by these coloured meanes which to the godly seemeth ridiculous and too too fond And thus much coÌcerning the bokes in latin by occasioÌ of the Dutch wherin note this Christian Reader that wheras the Italian Pope would haue all in latin this other Pope and dutch Antichrist would haue all in Dutch as a predestinate tongue to open his prophesies and misteries of that Lord. All the quotations of holy scripture that HN. vseth to proue that he is rysen from the dead to iudge the world do proue in deede that Iesus Christ hath rysen from the dead must they therfore auouch HN. his resurrection See good Reader the presumptuous spirite of Sathan so setled in these for âorne âdames ⪠that through the eating of that forbidden fruite wherethrough they would become as god that is deiââed they are wholy become sathanified or diuilyfied Strange names I confesse but very significant propeâ for such strange Christians Was not Christ Iesus mightely declared to be God by the resurrection from y dead If this resurrection were the mightyest declaration or argument proofe that Christ was God iudge Christian Reader ⪠if HN. maketh not himself not only God but Christ and so the promised séede And in deede you your selfe Vitell haue affirmed him to be a Prophet before in thiâ place you cal him a priest geue him also the name of a king and then is he Christ a new Messiaâ for by his resurrection he maketh him selfe god Such an Antichâist â thinke should neuer haue beene heard of if that the Children of God had not beene warned in the gospell that many false Christes should come into the world and such dangerous dayâs that if it were possible the elect of God should be deceaued But blessed be God whâ euer is ready to preserue his electe by Christ sâ that perish in âecoiuable wayeâ they shall not such a care hath the Lord ouer his Now HN. and his ââistes office shall appeare where through the Lord will receaue all men O impudent wretâhes haue we not a deliuerer euen the Lord Iesus who doth not onely receaue vs but continually protect vs and minister to vs all thinges both heauenly and earthly which are expedient for vs but will you blasphemously open your mouthes that wee shall be receiued by the Priestes office of your HN. No godly Christian can heare this without griefe What âerogatioÌ is this to our merciful Lord and Sauiour that now a wretched man possessed with a lamentable spirite shall take vpon him his office and calling where through we shall be receaued Oh manisefâst impietye Oh exeârable iniquitye which no patience can beare Seing you publishe âuch doctrine in writing with deliberation what doctrine doe you teâch in corners to your Family where no maÌâare open hiâ mouth agaynst any blasphemy that you doe vtter ⪠In such credââ are you ââept but wo worth y hed that seekes to ãâã the simple with such horrible doctrine Your ãâã âayd that I know not HN. but as it was sayd to Serinthus the heretique I know him to be the first begotten sonne of SathaÌ But the Lord hath geuen his Church the spirite of trueth to direââ them from all such vâyne boastes of iniquitye So lykewise O Lord geue thy holy spirit to the simple seduced in y Familye ⪠that they may behold the blasphemyes which their Elders in wickednes doe teach agaynst the son of God Christ Iesus Vitell. FVrthermore you write very vntruly of HN. where you say that no man be he neuer so learned or godly can vnderstand or interpreat the scriptureâ for I am sure there are no such wordes written by him therfore I must needes say they are lyes and false iudgementes with wrong interpretatioÌs almost all what you write of him and of his workes and euen so are most of your interpretationâ which you alledge of Christ and his Apostles doctrine For if so be they I meane HN. his bookes might be perused of vnparciall Iudges then your iudgement would be found euen lyke their iudgement which coÌdemned Susanna but the Lord raysed vp Daniell which is the iudgement of God and deliuered the giltles vnto whome we commit our cause For he will iudge vprightly and reward euery one according to his deedes Aunsweâe WHat HN. hath pronouÌced of all other mens vnderstaÌding of the scripture I will here agayne set down that the reader may iudge who is in the lye Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deceitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminated men out of the imagination or of their owne knowledge and out of the learnednes of the scriptures bring forth institute preach and teach they preach in deede the letâer and the imagination of their knowledges but not the word of the liuing God. And in an oâher place âo diuâ ⪠codem cap. ãâã theÌ esteme themselues so holy as they will they are a false Christianitye and Diuells sinagogue or schole c. with many other places to lyke effect so that HN. still teacheth his Familye that it is geueÌ to the Familye of Loue to vnderstand the secretes thereof Now let the indiffereÌt reader iudge whether HN. exempt not all but him and his from the true vnderstanding of the scriptures all men which are not godded with God he tearmeth fleshly minded and earthly in cogitations and intreateth whole chapters of such men he sayth That a fleshly and earthly man out of his naturall and scripture learned vnderstaÌding hath not any sight or knowledge at all thereof he iâ so vtterly voyd of the same that he cannot vnderstand the smallest title thereof much lesse expound the same according to the trueth to an other c. So that it appeareth pâayne that nono but HN. and his illuminat Elders can vnderstand the samâ ⪠ââccording to trueth You say if HN. his bookes might be perused of vnpartiall Iudges then should his case be found as innocent as Susanna Those vnparcial Iudgeâ that you would haue are you and your fellow Elders in the Familye For I doe truely affirme that no
godly or learned man in all ChristeÌdome will allow your HN. and his bookes for true doctrine you for your part haue trauelled the most part of this 10. yeares and yet I cannot vnderstaÌd of any godly âr learned man that imbraceth your doctrine onely some erroneus spirites whose heddes haue bin intoxââated with other horrible heresies doe ioyne with you in these your wicked attempes also certayââ vnlearned country people with whom by your sugred speaches and fayre wordes you haue not a little preuailed to the destructioÌ of their soules If you would choose any godly and learned men to heare your reasons and argumentes thâ matter might quietly be debated you doe but in wordes make a shew aâ though you would stand to indifferent and vnpârciall iudgement But when it commeth to tryall you will be iudged onely by your selues which is the safest way to cloke your impietyes Vitel. THerefore consider what you haue done for I am sure you are not appoynted a iudge by the Lord but Christ will come with his Saintes and iudge the world and all nations with righteousnes and he will send his Aungells for to kepe and to gather the corne together and they shall bring the corne into the Barne but the weedes shall be cast into the vnquenâhable fire therefore iudge you nothing before the Lord come whilest you cannot as yet discerne the hearbes from the weedes nor the corne from the chaffe for with the same iudgement that you iudge shall you be iudged in asmuch as you are guilty ⪠in the same which you falsely iudge ouer others Aunswere I Am not appoynted a Iudge but Christians must not be lyke Horse and Moyle that haue no vnderstanding I onely admonish you as is euery maÌs duty of such doctrine as you teach to the poore people which is corrupt and therefore knowing the same I haue manifested it to the world that your cause might sooner if you be disposed come to tryall and that trueth might appeare where it is You further discourse of the second comming of Christ I hope you meane it not otherwise but in the resurrection of all fleââ I writ this because HN. in the preface of his booke called a good Instruction of the vpright sayth the 2. division sayth these wordes For as much theiâ as that now in this same newest day the comming of Iesus Christ as a Lord in his maiestye from the right hand of God his Father appearâth and becommeth manifested vnto ãâã with full clearenes of his heauânly illumination âccording to the scripâââe c. Here HN. telleth that Iesus Christ is come and is manefest to you of his Familye and that he is come from the right hand of God his father Our fayth is that he shall come from theÌce in the end of the world but HN. telleth his Familye that he is come therefore your wordes and your Authors agree not this is very suspitious doctrine touching the resurrection and this augmenteth more suspition that one of your Family being asked before many witnesses touching Christes comming to iudgement did aunswere playne that he was already come meaning his second comming I could name the partye yet my hope is that you teach not so heathnishly of our resurrection and of Christ his glorious comming to Iudgement Vitell. MOreouer you affirme in your wrighting that you and all that are as your are whome you âall God his children doe feele your selues wounded with sin vnto death but by grace geuen from aboue that wholesome medecine Christe Iesus whose passion hath purged whose bloud hath cleÌsed whose death hath cured all your diseases and maladies c. So you confesse you neede not any more for you are clensed and cured of al your diseases wherefore do you then condemne HN. which doth teache none other doctrine where through men shal come to lyfe euerlasting but through the passioÌ death and bloud of Iesus Christ but you are clensed as you say and therefore haue you no more neede of Christ nor of hys safemaking oyle of the godly saluation for you affirme that ye are all cleane and I would ye were clensed through Iesus Christ for then coulde yee neither slaunder nor lye Aunswere I Haue sayd that all God his Children feele themselues wounded with âhâ vnto death c. the remedy I hauâ also shewed as you haue set down but your conclusion is false and cannot bee collected of my wordes that I neede not anye more because I am clenseâ and cured for we need his prouidencâ still to protect vs and his grace to defend vs in all our actions for wee arâ stil subiect to âall into sinnes not withstanding in the purpose of God we bee hys elect and to our comfort do feele the Lorde worke in vs a hate of sinne which is a testimony to our conscience that we pertayne vnto the Lord Iesuâ yet so as the dregges of sinne with the motions thereof lurke in our bodyeâ although you deny it our battayle against âinne is continuall and shal neuer haue end vntill our earthly tabernacle shal be turned to dust contrarâ to your doctrine of perfection you askâ why I blame HN. whiche teacheth no other doctrine I would be nor you did not but how contrary you speake vnto the truth doth maniâestly appeare You charge me agayne vntruely that because we are clensed wee neede no more of Christ this woulde you haue but our needâ wee still acknowledge our wantes we vtter and yet doubt nothing of our deliuery from sin hell and death and although wee acknowledge this our redemption and forgeuenes of our sinnes yet so as the remembraunce thereof still worketh repentaunce in vs and also wee often feele the law to presse vs the iustice of God to terrefie vs our coÌscience to accuse vs in such trouble are often the children of God but stil by grace giuen vs through fayth wee acknowledge Christe Iesus who hath interposed himselfe betweene vs and the law betwene vs and the Iustice of God c. with such conflictes doth the Lord still exercise hys ChildreÌ and so doth hereby schole vs that feeling our want or neede and our miseries we might flee to him for streÌgth for mercy for help but I doubt whether you in your Family with your presumtuous doctrine of perfectioÌ do féel any of these exercises the godly Christian is partaker of ⪠Now you wishe that I were clensed through Iesus Christ for then coulde I neither slaunder nor lye âoe here appeareth vnawares that you when you are clensed can sinne no more but for my owne part I acknowledge and I doubt not but verely beleue through Christ that my sinnes by his death are clensed and yet subiect both to lye and slaunder Although I know not neither is it yet manifest vnto me that I haue wittingly either belyed or slaundered either you or your Aucthor or maliciously haue written any thing agaynst you yet it may be that I haue bin informed otherwise then trueth in
good but forasmuch as your doctrine is false wicked and fantasticall therfore your prayer is corrupte and abhominable and to be despised and all princes that fear the Lord wil become vtter enemies to you â your doctrine and seek diligently to amend if it be possible your corruptions and I doute not but the Lord hath in his Church men of zealous mindes who will not see the glory of our immortall God nor the death passion and resurrection of Christ Iesus our Lord so defaced darâkned and shadowed And that his Church may be purged of such corrupt weedes which spring vp séeking to destroy that good corn which is sowed already O Lord God we humble sinners abiding in the vnity of thy holy Church doe most humbly hartely pray thee eueÌ for thy sonne our Sauiour Christ Iesus sake that thou wilt in mârcy looke vpon thy poore afflicted Church and the members thereof that by no malice of Sathan no pretence of collored speach nor no vanity of minde any of thy children be caryed away as straying from thy fould but that O Lord they may agayne be ioyned to thy flock so that so many as pertayne vnto that good shepherd of our soules Christ Iesus may laud and prayse thy name with one voyce and O Lord we most humbly beseech thee to clense thy Church from the filthy dregges of doctrine which wicked meÌ through the malice of Sathan haue deuised to disquiet thy peaceable Sion conuert thou them O Lord wée beseech thee mollify their stony hartes which haue set vp a Prophet whome thou O Lord hast not sent let them O Lord behold how farre they haue declyned from thy wayes and followed the doctrine of deceaueable men let them see from whome they haue departed to whom they cleaâe fast And although we O Lord by our offences and the manyfold transgressions wherwith we prouoke thy merciâull goodnes who doe know thy will and yet are so slow performerâ therof wherby thou O Lord doest punish our offences so that wicked men now set vp theÌselues against vs accusing vs and that worthely of the breaking of thy holy lawes So O Lord although we haue thus sore prouoked thy goodnes by our offences yet we beseech thee consider thy sonne our Lord and Sauiour whose obedience righteousnes to thy will ⪠thou hast by promise made it ours so that beloÌging to thy sonne we are shadowed vnder his righteousnes and couered vnder his winges in safety from eternall destrucâion But such is thy goodnesse O mercifull God to try thy children here in earth how stedfast we will bid battaâle against Sathan and his impes and how constant we will abide therein so that no blast nor inuation of enemies shall I hope shake that foundation of faith that thou hast plânted in vs which we most humbly desire thy maiesty to increase and that we may perseuâre and continue in the vnity of thy holy church in this life and after we may inioy tâe fruition of thy godly maiâstye and sing prâyses vnto thee world without end Vitell. O Lord let vs finde grace before thine eyes and heare ouâ humble sâpplication which we make vnto thee in the sorrowfulnesse of our haâts For a broaken hart and a sorrowfull spââite wilt thou O Lord not despise ⪠for euen there wilt thou enter ãâã and therby mââe thine habitation and sanctifie thy name from genâration tââenâââtioâ ãâã in euerlastingnes It is very true Answere O Lord we bâseech thée turne the harts of thesâ deceaueâ people and graunt them thy holâ sâirit y they may discern thy truth tauâht in thy holy word and not geue eaâe vnto anâe which teach coÌtrary therto ouerthrow their deuices brig to light their deâââts for thy holy names sake That we thy childreÌ may reiâyce ouer their tâ uersioÌ so together with one voice magnifie praise thy glorious name ⪠and that those straying shââp may be brought in to thy fold again ãâã it be thy blesââd wil Reueale vnto them O Lord we beseech thee the office and death of thy sonne our Lord and Sauiour that they tasting the swetenes thereof may âorsake the confidence they haue in their perfection and that we may all acknowledge onely Christ Iesus to be perâite and we our selues dust and dung and whatsoeuer is vile let nât Sathan lead theÌ captiue but O Lord we besech thee pull them out of the Lyons mouth and conioyne them to thy holy Church out of which they haue wandred ouer long in doctrines of men Let thy strength appeare O Lord and let our weakenes be made open to them let the effect of thy Gospell breake into their hartes of stone that they may tast féele how swâete the Lord is in mercy towardes sinners and how seuere to such as iustify theÌselues And if it stand with thy good will pleasure thus to coÌuert theÌ at the sute of our earnest prayers we shall for the same geue thankes in thy Church euermore But if thy Churche shall haue thereby their tryall made knoweÌ to the world herein O Lord kéepe thy children and such as loue thâ Lord Iesus embrace the ioyfull tidinges of the Gospell in thine owne bosome that they be not led away with any pretences of pietye into error or corruption but defend them as thou hast promised that what pittye a Father hath ouer his childreÌ lyke pittye thou O Lord wilt shew vnto theÌ which we besech thee graunt vs for thy sonne Iesus Christ his sake to whome with the holy ghost be honor land prayse power and dominion from euerlasting to euerlasting So be it The state and condition of a regenerate man by the rule of holy scripture compared with the state of a regenerat man by the doctrine of HN. in the Familye of Loue. I Being in my creation at the first in most excellent state and happines hauing by diuine prouideÌce in my selfe frée choyse will to choose the good and refuse the euill described by fire and water I willingly and of mine owne accord gaue place to euill and so worthely by iustice brought vpon my selfe the heauy hand of my God and the dexteritye of his law ⪠with maledirioÌ cursse where in â had remained euerlastingly had not the Lord my God in mercy and of his speciall grace beholding my woeâââl âase without any desert of mine prouided and promised a deliuerer a Sauiour eueÌ the Lord Iesus which in âulnes of time came whome the Patriarches hoped after whome the Prophets foretold of which died for my sinnes and rose agayne for my iustification who put out the hand writing of the law pronounced agaynst me âastened it to his crosse who suffered for me y I might raigne with him who left me an example that I should âollow his steppes And which is more without coÌdition promisâd me eternall lyfe which by the onely sacrifice of his death he hath obtayned and by his paynefull
passion hath purchased freely for me and all others whome he chose before all worldes to be heyres and sonnes of the same inheritaunce by adoption and grace which promise or assuraÌce I holde âârmely by fayth Notwithstanding this his louing kindenes and mercy shewed towardes me if the Lord my God did not sâill protect me guide me and deâend me I should anihilat and make voyd this mine estate or assurauÌce therfore hath he geuen vnto me the participatioÌ of his holy spirite renewing me working in me regeneration which is a detestation lothing and hate of sinne and a minde will to serue the lord Yet so as there is a kinde of rebellion in me So that the good thinges I would doe I doe not but the euill I hate that doe I yet not I but sin that dwelleth in me I feele my flesh lusting agaynst the spirite and the spirite agaynst the flesh continually so that I cannot doe the same thinges I would ⪠I fele the law of my members striuing and rebelling agaynst the law of my minde And further to make my state and condition more throughly knowen I feele often tymes sinne and the mostons thereof so strong in me that I am for a season led captiue therewith yea without remorse so that the spirite semeth in me vtterly quenched or as âire raked vnder ashes that is not seene and sometime I wallow and for a season as it were forget my God notwithstanding this my backslyding I feele agayne the goodnes of my God and the working of hys spirite renewing me agayne then in sorrowfulnes and teares I bewaile my selfe in prayer y I haue so long estraunged my self offended my God then doe I féele the coÌfort of his spirite which bringeth to my remeÌbraunce the promises of the Lord pronounced in his word videliz Though thy sinnes were as redde as scarelet yet will I make them as white as woole looke how far the heaueÌ is from the earth so farre haue I set thy sinnes froÌ thee Lyke as a Father hath compassioÌ on his children euen so the Lord will shew mercy on me for he dealeth not with vs after our sinnes noâ rewardeth vs after our iniquityes ⪠All the day long he standeth with stretched out armes ready to receaue those that turne vnto him c. Then when I feele this the Lord my God comforting me by his promises I am driuen by the working of the same his holy spirite to be partaker of the holy sacrament of his death which is to me a seale and pledge cognizaunce of my redemption which to my great comfort I receaue as a token of his loue and kindenes shewed to me and so more and more I feele sinne and Sathan weaker and by resisting him dayly I finde him and his baytes Idle my fleshe and âhe aâlurementes of the world lesse able to hurt me or to preuaile agaynst me And â feele in my selââ through the working of the same spirite a redynes to all good exercises of pietie as hearinâ of the word Prayer Aâstinence Charitie towards Christes members Loue Peace Ioâ c. But yet still I féel finne with her motions neuer ceâsing a fresh to assay me and try me with new assaults and sifting me euery way againe and agayne charging me ofteÌ with the dexterity of the law with the greatnes of my sinnes laying them particularly before me with great horror preparing such bookes and baites for me that if I were not preserued by the great goodnes of my God I should vtterly dispaire and fal away but the Lord doth comfort me still saying My grace is sufficient for thee My grace is made strong through thy weaknes Be of good cheare I haue ouercome the world In such case I am and such is my battaile continually and alwaies fighting this vnder my graund captayne I preuayle and am not vaÌquished nor vtterly ouercomed yet agayne I prepare for a newe skirmish place my selfe in y formost raÌk to abyde the brunt of the next incouÌter so that I neuer looke for any rest nor peace whilst I am in this vale of misery for my lyfe is a coÌtinuall warfare Yet in this exercise or continuall skirmish I am at peace in minde and conscience knowing and firmely beleeuing that my redeemer liueth who hath trod the wine presse alone and hath offered me the cup of Saluation and sealed in my hart the pledge of hyâ loue so that with confidence and boldnes I haue accesse vnto my God and by the mediation of my Lord and Sauiour Christ I obtaine what soeuer is necessary or behouâfull for me for I beyng thus knit vnto my God do boldly make my prayers vnto hym yet in tremâling and feare I acknowledge my offences say O Lord my God I dayly confesse mine offences my sins are euer before me Enter not into IudgemeÌt with thy seruaunt for no flesh is righteous in thy sight âf thou O Lorde obserueât myne iniquities who is able âo abide it For thy holy name sake O Lord be mercifull vnto myne iniquitie for it is greaâ Remember not the faults of my youth Shew vnto me thy mercy and graunt me thy salvatioÌ Thus dayly and nightly I bewaile my misery confesse my âânnes vnto the Lord my God and acknowledge that âf the Lord should conâond with me in iustice I were not able to answere For what is man that he should be cleane or he that is borne of a woman that he should be iust For he founde no stedâastnes in his saints yea the heauens are not cleane in his sight How much more man which is abhominable and filthy and drinketh iniquitie like water Whose very righteousnes is like a cloth defiled with the vnââmely bââth of a woman Thus considering my state and condition I rest quâet in mind and by faith in the sonne of God Christ Iesus I dout nothing of my saluation but accept gladly the battaile warfare I haue with sinne and SathaÌ continually as tokens of his great mercy and plâdges of his loue in fâeling the redy help and speedy deliuery of y lord who in time to me vnknowen will visite mine offences in this life with whips and my sinnâs with scourges but his mercy he wilâ neuer take from me And thus being chosen callâd and prepared he sanctifieth me by death maketh a waâ and entrance vnto an happy life where I shall behold that ioyfull sight euen the Lamb that was ãâã for me And shall follow him whâresoeâer he goeth Singing praise and thankes to him for euer and euer Amen The state and condition of a Regeneraââ man afâer the doctrine and âeaching of HN. in the pretended âamily of Loue. BEloued in the beginning when God made all things well then was âhe Lord one Lord of his kingdoâe and one God of his workes There was also no more but one
the word are you your selues as is before shewed that euery one thinketh that he hath the best part as you say For mens thoughtes we referre to his knowledge that is Scrutâtor cordium remum Also you affirme that man is plaged with such a miserye and burthen but we rather say oh miserable man out of whose corrupt nature springeth such presumption and wickednes to be vnder the obedience of the Loue of Christ Iesus is our whole care and studyâ to him onely we cleaue on him we call vpon his mercy we depend and carefully seeke indeuour to be obedient to his will for he is our hope our anker hold our mercy seate our only coÌfort in all distresse of mind our phisitioÌ in sicknes our gouernour in health our peacemaker the onely purchaser of our health and saluatioÌ he is all in all with vs and wée enioy all in all by him and through him and if this sayth were also planted in you then would your HN. be banished out of your hartes and your perfection would soone quaile and in humilitye of spirite you would âith vâ fall downe before this méeke Lambe Christ Iesus and say peccauimus cum patribus nostris c. We haue sinned with our Fathers without which Christ no flesh that is no creature liuing is iustified in his fathers sight and Christ his death is proper to none nor bâlongeth to none but sinners and such aâ feele sinne or are laden with sinnes What shall then become of you Iusticiaryes with your perfite state which sinne not to follow brotherly loue is also to be wished both in you and vs and I pray you doe euen the same theÌ shall you not séeke out y simple people whose capaciti is lyke vnto ware which will easely receiue any print or marke seek not with your fly and suttle perswasions to seduce theÌ with your corrupt doctrine ⪠vnder preâence that you seeke onely the godly lyfe which Christians should follow whereas in déede you séeke to leade theÌ from Christ to HN. from the âomfort of the holy scriptures which sheweth how mercy is offred to all penitent sinnârs vnto a perfite state of lyfe which must be attained in this world which neuer any Christ Iesus except could attayne vnto and so you corruptly leade them away from all comfort in Christ Therefore we will not let to desire the Lord in mercy to preserue his childreÌ from your infected poyson Vitel. THerfore speketh the lord through his Prophet Zacâary Iudge righteously and let euery one shew goodnes and mercifulnes vnto his brother and let no man deale vnrightly with another nor with the widowes fatherles sââangers and poore And let no man imagine any euill against his brother in his haât but alas they will not haue ââgard hereupon but âuâne theâ backs saith the Lord vnto me and stop their eares that they heare not and harden their haââes as hard as a diamont For that they should not be obediât to the law the word which the lord sendeth in his spirite through his prophets Aunswere TOuching the saying of âachary we wish the very same that euery one shew mercy and deale rightly with his brother with the widow and fatherles strangers and poore c. But can you alleadge these places haue no regard to folow the exhortatioÌ your selues how rightly do you deale with your brethren that being required to vtter your faith which you hold you deal suttelly and deceitfully with such as with well vnto you and seeke your health and delyuery from error Now regard you that no man imagine euill in his hart against his brother when as you call vs free ânes Libertiâes and wicked blasphemers c. Who turnes their backs who stoppes their âares who harden their harts Haue not you turned from Christ to HN Haue not you stopt your eares against all holesome admonition which the holy Ghost hath plentifully in the holy scriptures set forth and only bent your harts vpon the bookes and wrytyngs of HN Haue you not hardened your harts and bent your faces against a manifest truth and placed HN. a prophet priest by whoÌ God wil receiue all vnto mercy On whom may this propheticall speach or exhortation be better applyed then vpon your selues and yet will not I goe about to excuse my selfe and others that we do therein what is required but only let y world see that these men of the Family cry out and apply the sayings of the Prophets against vs and for themselues they suâpose it belongeth not to them to take waâning thereby in so perfecte a state do they remaine Vitell. O God prepare the harts of the people to the lowlynâssâ that they might stand mindeâ in humility to the Loue and loue the comming of thy Christ in his lordlânes through whom the whol earth shal be âudged with righteousnes which shall moue all might and violence and bring it vnder his obedience and render vnto thee O almighty God the kingdom all power and glory to the end that thou mayest be all in all O god geue this into the harts of the gouernors that they may see it And illuminate all kinges princes Lords and potentates with thy godly wisdome that they may feare thy holy name stand submitted vnto thy Loue and her seruice and might turne them from all violence and misuse and that the world may be inhabited to thy praise in the Loue and in all righteousnes and that all men in true repentance for their sinnes might be turned vnto thee And the horrible plagues of vngodlynes which are come ouer the world for their sinâes cause cease and haue an end Answere THis part coÌtaineth a prayer which this man maketh for all that they might staâd minded in humility to the loue as I haue often complayned of the confounding this word Loue and the signification therof so here I will tâke it in y best part to signifie God to whom we craue continually his grace to huÌâle our harts that we may euer standâ obedyent to his will and that we may look for that ioyfull coÌming of Christ Iesus whose appearing shal be to the comfort of his elect to their surpassing ioy but as a terrible iudge to the wicked despisers of his mercy offered and to such as haue sât vp in their harts any other besides him or follow any other but him or delite in any other sauing hâm No violence can resist him no strength preuail with him but as you say all shall be brought vnâer his obâdâence âhere as you pray that all kings princes c. may âeaâe thy holy name and stand submitted to thy loue âere is loue takeÌ in another sence therfore you intricatly vse this word Loue wherby your meaning can not easily be found out For here loue and her seruice is meant such doctrine and seruice âs you teach which you wiâh all princes were partakers of if your doctrine were a truth in dââde then were your prayer