seruice to euil kinges he addeth least this long treatise shoulde seeme altogeather impertinent that he could not chuse but oppose to the fanaticall spirites and traiterous allegations both of these dangerous innouators of the rebellious Papistes But alas why are we poore Ministers as he calleth vs before whom a man of meane estate wil not regard so dangerous He answereth because we would haue our soueraignes kingdome to be holden at the chiefe inferior magistrates the people or Presbyteries deuotion Oh heauen O earth O Lorde our God the searcher of the secreats of all hearts the author of the holy discipline we seek reueale we besech thee our horrible treason bring vpon vs our children for euer vtter cōfusion in this life in y ◠life to come if this wickednes be either intended thought vpon or be likely to follow vpon the discipline which we seeke or vpon our desire of the same If you O you holy fathers and ministers of God which haue writetn for defended mayntained with great danger attained vnto this may not cleare our cause by y ◠vn fained fidelitye which you haue shewed to christian Princes yet let your wisedome experience Oh you Princes and Magistrates which haue receiued it honored it tried it beare witnesse vnto the innocēcie of this cause Shal that which hath bin a friend to magistrates when they were enemies to it be enemies to Magistrats when they should be friends vnto it Shal that which D. Whitgift himself confesseth namely That such Seniors were but long ago worne out of vse For which he alleadgeth the sentence of Ambrose before alleadged shal that I say called for of that holye man become traiterous pernitious to the state Can the office of an Archbishop in the second place of the land doing al that alone and more in Church-matters then the seniours hauing with it ciuil power and authority be free from this suspition and cannot Ministers and Elders of base account in the world medling onely as the Apostles with spirituall matters that according to the word of God be void of al surmize of such vilanous practise can their counsels be accounted safe where none come but themselues whō they wil who are deuoted to their honor kingdome ecclesiasticall And shal the ministers consultations be so fit for such practises where so many Elders as he sayth lay men of all degrees may be present where the Magistrates may haue both their eyes their eares Whose decrees in al matters of greatest waight of Excōmunication Election Abdication ending of common controuersies must come vnder the conscience of all men yea whose whole acts and counsels may easily be seene by the Magistrate who may force them to a new course if they doe any thing preiudiciall to the estate The good king Iehoshaphat according to the Word of God and the example of his father Dauid ordeined besides the Priests and Leuites in all Cities the cheefe of Families for the iudgementes of the Lord and for the matters of God besides others appoynted for ciuill matters called the kings matters Now shall wee thinke that hee coulde not see into the matters of a kingdome and the safety thereof aswell as this man The Princes of Iuda at their returne when their state was subiect vnto so many dangers when their Prophets conspired against them yet vphelde the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery to threaten excommunication and seperation from Gods people to the obstinate sinners as wel they thē-selues did confiscation of goodes and ciuill punishment neither were they euer iealous ouer their estate Wherefore seeing we haue such a cloude of witnesses of these tymes and of former both vnder the law and vnder the Gospel we need not feare but their lying irōforhead in charging vs with such traiterous opinions shalbe manifest to all and shall tourne vppon their owne heades For manifestation whereof let the Magistrates consider what is written of them highly derogatorie vnto their estate and freedome which they make them beleue that they maintaine First they say the forme and maner of Church gouernment may be altered by the Magistrate then they say the externall gouernment of the Church vnder a Christian Magistrate must be according to the forme of gouernment used in the common-wealth Which is flat contrary to that that the Christian Magistrate may alter at their good pleasure Which also driueth the Queenes moste excellent maiesty eyther to part her Crowne with some other or else muste make one Archbishop not only of byshops but also ouer Archb. y ◠in the Church there maye be a Monark as wel as in the common-wealth Againe when they say y ◠Archb. is contayned vnder S. Paules Bishop they leaue it not in the Magistrates power to take away his iurisdiction how daungerous so euer it be to her estate Agayne let them consider into what a low place they bring the Magistrate into in the Church when expounding the place of the Corinthes of him they make him go after the teacher therfore much more after the Archbi Hauing therfore noted these their open contradictions most absurd opinions preiudicial indeed to her maiesties authority let vs ere we passe from this general what the forme of ecclesiastical gouernment is consider once againe of his assertion and see whether it bewray not manifest ignorance containe not cōtradiction repugnance in it selfe and be not highly derogatory to Christ his scriptures His words are these pag. 192. Now as concerning the inward gouernment of the Church of Christ by his spirite God working in his children by the Ministers of his writtē reuealed word also touching the essential poynts of the outwarde policy gouernment of the church consisting in the true teaching of the word of God in the due administration of sacraments according to christs holy institution in the aduancement furthering of vertue with the beating downe of sinne and impiety and in keeking the Church in a quiet vnity and good order there is no difference of opinion amongst vs. And a little after we affirm that no such precise exact forme of external gouerment of the Church by discipline as they depaint it out is so much as by any exāple recōmended vnto vs in scripture but much lesse commanded as a continuall platforme for euer to be followed In which assertion omitting the nakednes of it armed with no proofe out of the scripture or any good reason let vs see how it sheweth such grosse ignoraunce as is not to be lucked for in a man of his gifts for it deleareth that he can not distinguish betweene the cause instrument and meanes of a thing and the thing it selfe betweene gouernment and the essentiall partes of gouernment and the fruits of it For gouerment Ecclesiasticall that is the spirituall administration of Christ by the order and instruments of his Church which he hath ordayned is a different thing from the truth of
are one and not distinct To which I aunswere they may as well prooue hope and charity to be one and not distinct because the Apostle saith these three remaine faith hope and charitie because he coupleth them with and. But if these men haue not learned either that and though sometymes it rather repeateth or interpreteth then coupleth diuers thinges yet that most properly and commonlye it doth not so or that it is an elegancie with the Grecians in such long distributions to ioyne the twoo laste members especially if they bee of greater kindered and familiaritie then the rest to ioyne them with a copulatiue coniunction in the ende If I say they haue not obserued this in Homer and others Let them learne it of Paule Galath 3. where beeing about to shew that in Christe there is no difference of the outward distinctioÌ„ of kindes in this life he maketh a distinction or numbring vp of the diuers sorts and ioyneth the two last most like in nature and kindred yet not one and the same togeather saying There is neither Iewe nor Grecian ther is neither bond nor free there is neither male and female Hauing answered this obiection I proceede to other argumentes 1 Whatsoeuer is set as Church-officer in the Church by God with a distinct and proper ordinary gift that is such as we haue aboue described 2 But God hath set in the Church Doctors and giuen them their peculiar worke and gyft The Worde or vtteraunce of knowledge distinguished from the Pastors worke and gift the Word or vtteraunce of Wisdome in exhortation 3 Wherfore the Doctor is such a one as we haue described The second part is manifest by these wordes And these God hath set in his Church first Apostles secondly Prophetes thirdly teachers after powers theÌ„ the gifts of healing helpers gouernors sorts of tongs are all Apostles are al propehts Are all teachers And ver 8. To this is giuen by the spirit the word of wisdom to an other the word of knowledge according to the same spirite If they say the Worde teacher is heere taken generally not properly for the Doctor besides the 8. verse which doth manifestly refel them these reasons confute them First because he distinguisheth them from apostles and Prophets which in that generall signification should comprehend them and if it should comprehende anye more then Doctours properly yet it were no reason to shutte out those who are so called Lastly seing they can shew no place where it is so taken but alwayes is generall of all Ministers of the Word as the Apostle calleth him-selfe A teacher of the Gentiles And Timothy is willed to teach as also is euery Bishop or els it is proper for the peculier Church-officer so called it were against al rule of interpretation to shut out the proper which here agreeth with the circuÌ„stances of the text take a straunge vnwonted signification as to signifie a Pastor by a Doctor Our last reason is Seeing the Prophet Esay prophesying of the calling of the Gentiles by the ministerie of the Apostles doth also prophesie that of these called to the faith he would take of them to be Priestes and Leuites meaning according as the Prophets vse to speake by offices and holy thinges of the lawe to note out such offices as had some similitude proportion with those vnder the Gospell them to be Pastors who in administring of the Sacraments sleaing by exhortation the old man offring vp the new man acceptable to God holde proportion with the Priestes and to be Leuits whose office concerning y â— substantiall poynt of deliuery of doctrine is one the same with theirs that it must needs be that according to the scriptures of the new Testament this prophesie shold be fulfilled in the office of Doctors as well as of Pastors And this was that which the Fathers ment in their coÌ„mon resembling of Pastors to Priestes Eusebius declareth this most plainly in setting down the duties of y â— Doctor to catechise them as a master his schollers by continual reading to them or exercising to aduance them in knowledge For writing of y â— persecution of y â— church vnder Seuerus speaking of Origin he saith â—he exercise of teaching or the schole exercising as some where euen himself maketh relation in writing none serued or was set to catechise at Alexandria but all were driuen away by the threatning of persecution some of the Gentils came vnto him to heare the word of God And a little after Origin was then 18. yeare old when he was ouer the schoole of catechising or instructing And Nazianzen saith in Orat. Pros tous politeuomenous The seruants must be subiect to their masters the wiues to their husbands the Church to the Lorde the Disciples to their Pastors and Teachers Of the Elders and Eldership HAuing ended the treatise of the Doctor his office we are to proceede vnto the Elders and Eldership with whom he dealeth as prophanely as with the others his wordes are fol. 43. But why are Presbyteri such as expouÌ„d in the Church translated Elders I trust he mindeth not hereby to shut out all lay-men from the Eldership or seigniory which is dreamed of least peraduenture he him self be Exclusissimus And Pag. 57. And doth our Author thinke that this man heere doth meane their laye Presbiteries neuer heard nor reade of from the beginning of the worlde till within these fortye yeares or little more because he nameth them Ecclesiasticall Magistrates In which wordes of our author wee see his cheefest reason against the Ecclesiasticall Presbyterie is that the Elders are lay and the Presbyteries lay and therefore there hath not beene heard til within this forty year of them in the world To which we answere if y â— Elders which ioine with the Pastor Doctor were lay men yet it followeth not that the Eldership is lay But can his degree of Doctor if he bee so much giue such credite vnto his bare word as though all y â— Christian Churches which by the grace of God do exercise this discipline shoulde bee beleeued to haue a Presbitery of such as are not elected and ordained Ecclesiastically to their office If I be not deceiued herein his lawes may teach him if he wil not learn it out of the Scriptures that whosoeuer is called with due examination and trial with the consent of those to whom it appertaineth and are with fasting and prayers or prayers onely and with imposition of hands seperated or put a part to that office that they are Ecclesiastical persons and not lay-men as he calleth them otherwise there is no rule in the Scripture to descerne betweene men priuate and betweene Church-officers Nowe if hee consider either the order which we maintaine out of the Scripture or that which is practized in al reformed Churches he shal find that they are duely examined by the Elders elected of the whole Churche ordeined of the Eldership yea hee
¶ A COVNTER-POYSON Modestly written for the time to make aunswere to the obiections and reproches wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract would disgrace the holy Discipline of CHRIST Luke 19. vers 40. ¶ I tell you if those should holde their peace the stones woulde crye AT LONDON Printed by Robert Walde-graue The Authour to the Reader IT is sayde of Solomon who had no small experience in the course of al things that much reading is wearinesse vnto the flesh but it is most true euen in our owne experience that to deale with the vntamed and vntaught reason of man is a vanity vexation of spirit vnto those who loue the truth For what cunning shiftes and exquisite variety of subtleties haue they to decline the mighty strooke of the word of God And it is no maruaile if we poore dullardes be not only made blunt but almost worne awaye with encountring with such tough ware The onely comfort we haue is that when the diuell disputed yea continued disputing so long with the Son of God him self hee was at the length made to retire with those milde and yet most powrefull wordes The Lord rebuke thee Sathan Which most auncient example as it hath greatly sustayned me in this toyle of this tedious time wherein I haue had occasion to goe bare-foote through this quicke-set hedge of thornes which the aunswerer to the Abstract hath set in our way so it doth not a little grieue me that I am iealous ouer my selfe that I haue not followed in such measure as I ought that moderation which the sonne of God The prince of Angels kept when he encountred with the deuil notwithstanding I deale as I hope with a brother My comfort is that it shall be manifest that in steede of taking occasion where it was not giuen I haue swallowed downe that as sweet which is most loathsome and bitter I haue also stayd my course within the compasse of the first treatise and the daungerous appendix annexed to the same partly because I suppose he wil not abuse so much the Scripture as to wrest the defence of pluralities of Ciuill offices in Ministers of God his word of sole excommunication which is already handled in this treatise by the scripture and partly because the rest will for the most part pertaine properly to the worthye Lawyer who hath begun this controuersie and shall by the grace of God see a good end of the same The Lord bring vs all to be of one minde and hart in the truth A FAITHFVLL BROTHER to the Christian Reader THE FEAREFVL CONDItion in regard of our sinnes of this our age and in this our Noble Countrie may make thee good Christian reader and all who loue the peace of SION the flowrishing estate of this coÌ„monwealth vvith heauie soule and deepe sighes of heart to bevvaile the horrible wickednes of this land euen yet to this day increasing if thou doe but consider that the hard and stonie hearts being continually vvatered vvith the svveete and heauenly devv of Gods most fatherly admonitions forethreatnings from day to day dropping dovvne by his messingers rising earlye is rather hardened then any whit mollified or humbled So that neither the fearfull signes in heauen and other creatures as it were by the breach of nature weeping ouer vs nor the horrible howling and quaking of the earth trembling and fearing vnder vs hath as yet brought forth anye further sorrowe of our sinnes then that being amazed and astonished at the suddaines woondring at the straungenes and for a time while our heartes did beat lightly sorrowing at the fearfulnes thereof we made a shew as though we would haue turned to the Lord but alas we soone became like the children of Israell vvho beeing put in feare with the greate terrour which God shevved in pronouncing the Lawe in mount Syna did promise to heare obey Moses vvho being but fortie daies and fortie nights absent from them and for them vvith the Lord they fel avvay to their owne imaginations Since this hath the Lorde vvith straunge sicknesses at diuers times diuersly visited vs in our bodies yea our very hearts haue bene smitten vvith the fear of foraine practises yet vvho is it that hath rightly ackovvledged the hand of the Lorde Aboue all other thinges this is to be soberly vvaied with the equall ballaunce of an vpright conscience that euen novv on the one side the common enemy to the state and Church of God among vs hath very villanously and traiterously vovved himselfe to put out the happy light of this most peaceable kingdome euen by desperate and slauishe bloud-suckers allured and besotted vvith the fayre and favvning face of a man hayred like a VVoman of these Locustes the Iesuites who haue stinges in their tailes beeing like vnto Scorpions to take away the precious life of our moste gratious Queene ELIZABETH our most dear soueraigne the ioy and peace of all this Land the Lord for his Sonnes â—ake continue her blessed dayes among vs and coÌ„found al their horrible practizes on the other side like as it was in Hierusalem vvhen Titus besieged it vvhat little faith and true loue euen from the tankard-bearer to men of high degree he that seeth any thing must needes behold and tremble But O that I vvere able to povvre oute my very heart and that riuers of vvaters mighte flovv out of mine eyes that I might sufficiently bevvaile the desolation of Sion among vs yea I coulde vvishe that my life though it vvere by a thousand deaths might redeeme the breaches of the Church of God among vs. VVhose hart doth not bleede to thinke that in so peaceable daies so blessed a time vnder so Godly and religious a Princesse euen when the fire of our neighboures most rufull miseries doth flame about our eares yea and that the Lorde hath almoste drawne out his vvrathfull svvord against vs euery man follovveth the pride couetousnesse vvhoredome drunkennesse and lustes of his own heart and no man remembreth Ioseph The barres are filled vvith pleadinges and the streetes are full of the cries of the poore fulnes of meat and contempt is among vs and vvho considereth Yet if this our sin vvere only against men and not against God there migh be some hope But vvhen the mouth of the blasphemous svvearer is not tied vp the handes of the idolatrous generation of Atheiestes prophane persons be not chained VVhen the moste holye and precious vvorde of God is manifestlye contemned the ioyfull and heauenly tydings of saluation so negligently and vngratefully troden vnder foote the true and faithfull messengers pursued atained and diuers wayes afflicted then if the olde worlde for malitious imaginations Sodom and Gomorrha for pride fulnesse of meate and vnmercifulnesse If IerusaleÌ„ for abusing Gods prophets wilfulnes were wofully distroyed vvhat may wee poore careles people look for if we do not repent but as it is almost vniuersally feared speedy ruine vtter desolation O ye shepherds
change of the time in the Lords supper as it is a meere circumstance of time so the alteration hath grounde in the scripture because one and the same time is not alwaies kept Act. 3. 42. Act. 20. 7. 11. c. Neither can that be saide to be according to the institution which being done vpon a particuler cause as all Diuines agree shold not be obserued wher that cause ceaseth Thus his assertions reasons being touched heere followeth a plaine declaration of the truth as to satisfie his request or chalenge Namely that the whole substance of the ordinary gouernment of the church that is to say the vnchaungable lawes of the holy things of Offices callings examinations abdications executiōs of the reason and distinction of euery one of them is prescribed of God in his holy Worde as a perpetuall Lawe vnto his Church And although euery particuler rite order which are variable according to the circumstance be not so particulerly mentioned yet are they by certaine generall rules so limitted and prescribed that no Churche can vse them at their pleasure but ought to frame thē within the boundes set vnto them of God which may appeare by these reasons following First seeing vnder the Law God by the ministery of Moses did precisely this thing for the gouernment of his Church then so that neither Dauid nor Nehemias might alter any thing but by especial reuelation from God by his Prophets it were to make God lesse carefull of his Church vnder the gospel to make the ministery of Moses more excellent then that of Christe vnlesse in like manner he had performed the same For Christe being a King hath prescribed Lawes for his gouernment and as he is a Lorde hath ordained the diuers administrations of his Church and in this respect was faithfull as Moses in all his house Againe seeing the Apostles hauing beene taught of him by the space of forty dayes the thinges which pertaine to his kingdome Act. 1. 3. that is as the Jesuites them selues are compelled to confesse the whole regiment of Christes Church did thereuppon set down such orders for the same 1. Tim. 3. 15 and giue charge that they shoulde be kept vnblameably 1. Tim. 5. 21. otherwise then which neither Timothy nor Titus might perfect that in the gouernment of the Churche which the Apostles had begun and say that they which are spiritual must acknowledge their orders in this behalfe to bee the commaundementes of our Lorde 1. Corin. 14. 37. and will their ordinaunces in this behalfe to bee kept as they deliuered them 1. Cor. 11. 2. and euen in the matter of the maintenaunce of the ministery woulde speake not according to man but according to the Law of God and the ordinance of the Lord 1. Cor. 9. 8. 14. then euery one that is spiritual must acknowledge the former position to bee true Thirdly seeing Christe hath expresly in his Word set downe sufficient ordinary Ministeries of Exhorters Teachers Elders Deacous with their proper gifts and workes of exhorting teaching diligent watching distributing for the administring of the holy things as y e word Prayer Sacraments censures and treasury and hath ordained the Eldership for y ioynt gouernment in euery particuler Congregation with Synodes for matters common to manye Churches it followeth that the former assertion is vndoubtedly true Fourthly seeing the Apostle Paule who receiued this as y ◠rest of y e Gospel by reuelation did vniformally plant y e same gouernmēt in all churches as appeareth by comparing the story of the Actes w t Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. 1. Tim. epist to Titus it is manifest they had a forme prescribed thē by Christ to follow euē as Moses did all things according to y ◠pattern shewed him in the moūt Againe seeing it is not in the power of man to alter or change these offices by addition or detraction because they cannot gyue nor take away members to and from Christes bodie but all the gyftes are from one spirite the faculties from one God the administrations from one Lorde and finally all Church Ministeries must be frō heauen and not from earth as Christ sayth the Scribes them selues confesse Then is there in the worde of God such an vnchaungeable rule of gouernment as is before declared Lastly seeing God in altering the outward face of his church vnder the Gospell diuerse from that vnder the law in regarde of y e ceremonies abolished and of things according to the riches and simplicitie of the Gospell inlarged did as well keep the substance of the Churches administration namely in ordayning for Priests Pastors for teaching Leuits or Doctors of y ◠law Teachers for rulers of y ◠Sinagog Churh-gouernors or Elders for their leuitical lokers to y ◠treasury Deacons for their presbytery the eldership As he kept the holy thinges to be administred that is for the lawe and the Prophets together with them y e writings of the new Testament for the Passeouer Circumcision Baptisme the supper of the Lorde for their giftes of God gathering for the Saintes or Church-treasury for their suspension from the Tēple-sacrifices our separation from y ◠Lords supper for their casting out of y ◠Synagogue cutting off from the people our excommunication It is euident that that which God kept for the time of the Gospell he did in perfect wisdom ordayne and prescribe and that which Christ did inrich and inlarge he woulde not haue men cut of and abolish Wherfore if they will still rowle the stone of mans power to alter and chaunge this order of God let them shewe how men can take away that which God hath set in his Church let them shew how that is not perpetual which is grounded vppon those gyftes which serue for the ordinarie necessityes of the church in al times and places yea let them shew how they can more wysely instruct the people with doctrine feede them wirh exhortation rule their soules with spirituall power chastize them with an holy rodde and prouide for their earthlye necessities then the Lorde hath done and still offereth to doe by the worde of knowledge in his Teachers by the worde of wisedome in his Pastors by the continuall watche of his Elders by the spirituall keyes of his kingdome and by his mercifull and liberall prouiding for the needie And if it be a shame to preferre mans wisedome before the wisedome of God at the least let them declare by what authoritye they will compell the Church to refuse the strong arme of God for the weake arme of fleshe and bloude To these reasons maye be added the testimonies of the Fathers as of CYPRIAN IN SERMONE DE BAPTIS CHRIST The Christian religion shall finde that out of this Scripture rules of all doctrine haue spronge and that from hence doth spring and hither doth retourne whatsoeuer the Ecclesiasticall discipline doth
doe not agree herewith in all circumstaunces or that he will tell vs that something extraordinary was here in this action not to bee followed then must hee shewe by direct Scripture what was ordinary and what was extraordinary and must reconcile other places of Scripture concerning like action which doe not agree in all poyntes with this In the first of the Actes two were presented one is chosen by lot and no imposition of handes heere seuen are chosen the manner not set downe by the multitude and being presented to the Apostles they all appoynt them and lay their handes on them In the 14. of Actes Paule and Barnabas are sayde Chirotonesasthai autois presbuterois and to haue fasted but no mention is made of imposion of handes heere all the Apostles did appoynt thē Hous katastesomen In the first to Titus he onely is willed to appoint priestes Hina catasteses presbuterous according as Paule prescribed vnto him Nay let him shewe vnto me any two refourmed Churches of diuers nations iumpe in all circumstaunces heereaboutes or anye one of them which permitteth this action without intermedling of the cheefe Pastours vnto all the Disciples or multitude of beleeuers in the sayde Church which yet haue an interest in hauing a good Minister but as I take it the cheefe swaye and moderating of such actions are in all other refourmed Churches in suche men to whome this trust is especially recommended And hath not likewise for auoyding of sundry inconueniences the whole Churche and Realme of Englande by Parliament whereunto euery man in the eye of the law is saide to haue consented reposed this trust in a fewe chosen men of ecclesiastical functiō Euen M. Beza him selfe concerning the place of the Actes doth say There is no cause why hereof anye man shoulde prescribe anye speciall rule but if the conscience be vpright it will be easie to set downe what is expedient according to the circumstaunces of tyme and places The reply vnto the former words Although the aunswerer in this large and tediouse discourse hath brought no new matter in substance which hath not alreadie beene sufficiently refelled so as no new encounter by publike writing as a supply hath beene made against the same yet shall it not be without fruite to the reader First to note out his tumultuous and insincere dealing his contrarietie with him selfe his agreement with the Papistes and then hauing particulerly layd◠open the nakednesse of his seuerall obiections briefly as before to set downe the plaine simple trueth out of the Scripture His tumultuous and insincere dealing appeareth in that pretending to haue greatlye sifted the wrytinges of this controuersie and to haue exact knowledge of the orders of reformed Churches in this behalfe hee is not ashamed in stead of incountringe with the truth to frame him selfe an vnknowne aduersary that is in steed of ouerthrowing the consent of people in Church-elections to make warre against a meere populer Election not gouerned with the fore-direction of the Elders which hath no ground in the scriptures and was neuer maintained as him selfe confesseth but by Anabaptistes and in steede of manly buckling with the substantiall pointes of Church-election with the foreleading of the Presbytery with the due consent of the people cowardly to betake himself vnto the changeable circumstances of the same as who should present the Elders or the people howe the people shoulde signify their consent by lifting vp their handes or otherwise by themselues or by proctors and diuers such other Which in the particuler answere following shall be declared howe according to the word of God they may vpon diuers circumstances be diuersly carried His contrariety to him felfe is apparant by these three partie-coloured assertions First that the people did chose without the Apostles Secondly they were to choose but the Apostles reserued to themselues the appointing of thē to their office if they shold be found to be such as were described Thirdly that the people presented them to the Apostles censures For that hee sayth they chose without the Apostles is directly contrary to that he sayth they presented them to the Apostles Censures so that their Election was to be disanulled and made none vnlesse by the examination of the Apostles they were founde aunswerable to their description His agreement with the papists and namely with the Romish Remists Testament doth notably appeare in that they appoynting as he doth the fift verse of the 1. of Titus to the consent of the people in the Election of their Minister they doe more breefly but as fully and plainly and with more curtesy to the trueth set downe both his assertions reasons and auncient Testimonies in these fewe words following And here it seemeth that he did not only consecrate them whom the people had elected before but him selfe also made choyse of the persons no mention being heere made of any other election populer which though it vvere long vsed in the primitiue Church yet for diuers causes and specially for continuall tumults partialities and disorders which Saint Augustine much complaineth of in his time was iustly taken away and other better meanes of their designement appointed See concil Laodic cap. 12. 13. So much the Papists Again how he iumpeth with the spirite of these Jesuites sauing that still they yeelde more to the trueth then he in saying That the Apostles shewed the people what to do without any prescript worde but onely by the instinct of Gods spirite may appeare by their words which they vse vpon the like occasion of Peter in their annotation on the 15. verse of the 1. Chapter of the Actes Which Peter saie they did not vpon cōmaundement of Christe written but by suggestion of God his spirit and by vnderstanding of the Scriptures of the old Testamēt to that purpose So far the papists And thus much generallye of his discourse Now of his particuler obiections the first is that he thincketh in no Church the whole number of people to haue free election of their Pastor If by free election he meane the due consent of the people either he speaketh against his knowledge or he knoweth not that he pretendeth seeing their confessions other their writinges and practize do in the knowledge of all those which know any thing in this matter euidently conuince him as may appeare by the quotations in the margent If he meane that the people should beare the whole swaye without the gouernment and direction of the Elders hee misseth the marke whereat hee aymeth Concerning the Queenes Maiesties prerogatiue royall which he would gladly oppone against the cōsent of the people in Church-elections First he could not be ignorant but that all acknowlege that the Christian magistrat as a principal member of y e congregatiō where he is ought to haue an interest in y e election answerable to his place aswel for aduise as consent Secondly the supreme magistrate according to the high authority which God hath committed vnto him ouer all
or plainly directly or indirely with protestatiō or without to defend or any way vphold such a base ministery But seeing it is the righteous iudgement of God vpon all our vnrigteousnesse but especially vppon their sinne who haue admitted tollerated and defended such vnsauory salt that instead of putting them to their right vse which our sauiour sayth is to bee cast on the dung-hill and to bee troden vnder the feet of men they do not only not remoue the stincking snuffe out of the candlesticke to place the bright-shining candle in their roome but also hauing cast downe a third parte of the starres from Heauen vnto the earth doe still by publique writing vnderprop suche crazed and rotted pillers It shall be expedient before the particuler examining of his seueral allegations to let the world see how that while they are strugling with the light of their owne conscience the Lorde as the Apostle sayth hath made their madnesse manifest to all men For when as they should haue bene mooued with the pitifull bowels of our Sauiour Christe who had compassion on the people though they came to his preaching and had their doctors and teachers of the Lawe such as they were in euerye Towne and Uilladge as sheepe scattered without a shepheard they haue made themselues a laughing stocke vnto the prophane but a pitty and heart-bleeding to the godlye by their ridiculous aunsweres open shiftings contradictiōs assertions and by such positions as come nearer to the prophane spirite of the Jesuites then to the holy Doctrine of any old or new writer of whome this question hath beene handled For how vnsauory is it For to decline the sharp stroke of Gods worde hee is faine to turne the rule of the Apost 1. Tim. 3. Which by Councels and Fathers is made an ordinary rule for the examination of those which stande to bee admitted into the ministery into a Platonical Idaea which should neuer be found in any And to shift of the plaine forme of their ordination wherein they are willed to receiue authority to preach the word he sayth that It is not in vain but to instruct vs forsooth that mere lay-men are not inhabled to this office as though ther were no booke to learne that lesson vnlesse the Byshop taught it by giuing authority to ignoraunt men to open their mouthes in preachiuge which after by a straight charge he is faine to sowe vp And lastly to leaue out other which the wise reader maye easilye see going aboute to prooue reading to bee a kinde of preaching he is dryuen to demaunde whether declaring of the Worde in the mother tongue be not a kinde of declaration c. Secondly what open shifts are these to couer the shame of thē who ordained ignoraunt Ministers hee is compelled to aske What if hee made him not or that the Parish were little or poore When in his own conscience he dareth not deny and all the worlde knoweth such are dayly made and as though fewenesse or pouertie deserued a blinde guid that they might both fal into the ditch Againe how simple and naked was that where to excuse the colde exhortatious of the ignorant Ministers he is forced to say that they are as profitable as they who through more audacity take vpō thē to preach come iust as nere the text as Iarmās lips are said to come together as if one to shew y ◠goodnes of y ◠pestilent feuer should alledge y ◠commodities of the plague Also how is this whole discourse at war with it selfe for to defend vnpreaching Ministers he challengeth mē to proue it simply vnlawfull to ordain men ministers of the Worde and Sacramentes which cannot preach when in another place he is driuen to confesse y t they receiue authority to preache to teach thē that they are addicted to the same as a thing incident to their office Which is as much to say Al ministers must receiue authority to preach as a thing incidēt to their calling yet some ministers may be ordained to the ministery of the Word Sacraments only y t is must receiue no authority to preache Nowe what concord ther is betweene him the Iesuites let this comparisō following declare They say vpon 17. vers of 1. Tim. cap. 5. Wee may note that all good Byshops and Priestes of those dayes were not so well able to teach as some others and yet for the ministery of Sacramentes and for Wisdome and Gouernment were not vnmeete to be Byshops and Pastours He sayth that they may bee Ministers of the Word Sacraments though they cannot preache They say Although it be due high commendation in a prelate to be able to teach as the Apostle before noteth yet al cā not haue the like grace therein it is often recompensed by other singuler giftes no lesse necessary He saith y ◠the aptnes to teach is an high eminent Idaea of y e Apostle rather declaring what is requisite in a Minister then what is necessarily required They say some times and countries require more preaching then others He saith vnpreaching Ministers are fitt for small Congregations though not for populous and troublesom people In all which let the reader mark whether the Jesuits be not one step nerer the trueth then he Now although this be bee sufficent to bewray the aunswerers halting yet because a great muster of faint Souldiers is thought to bee a mighty armye till being incountered withall they bee seuerally scattered and put to flight it is necessary to meet euery one of this valiant host hand to hand And first we ouerthrowe his Idaea which serueth for nothing else but to set out the holy Cannons of the Apostle to the laughter of all prophane men by these reasons following 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle inferreth vpon the worthy worke of a Byshop or Ministers office as that which must be in him for y ◠necessity of that work or for the necessary adorning of it the same cannot be such an Idaea 2 But the Apostle hauing saide that hee that desireth a Bishoppes charge desireth a worthy worke thereon concludeth 3 Therefore he must be apt to teach Wherefore seing he sayth Dei einai didacticon y t is he must be apt to teach how dare he say it is onely good and requisit or an Idaea which a Minister cannot attaine vnto for if he can not be so apt to teach as is there required thē it followeth he must not be apt to teach seeing in y e gouernment of y ◠Church a man must not be y ◠he cannot be althogh in the perfection of God his Lawe which was giuen to shew man his sinne and that man could fulfill the same yet in the rules of the church-gouerment it is farre otherwise which are set downe for a direction to the Church in their triall who are fit to such or such offices Secondly if that property of being apt to teache bee an Idaea that is an imagination
it which is the aduancement of vertue the beating downe and suppressing of sinne and impietie the keeping of the Church in a vnity and quiet order which beeing the effect of Christes kingdome and his gouernement hee maketh them the essentiall partes of it So that he hath not learned yet to put a difference Betweene the kingdome of God and Gods righteousnesse established by it Nor betweene the two petitions of the Lordes prayer that his kingdomr may come and the fruite of this That his will may be done in earth as in heauen Againe he graunteth the essentiall partes of Christes kingdome and outwarde policie of the Church but he denyeth any exact forme as though there can be essentiall poyâ—tes of outwarde gouernment perpetuall and yet they shal haue no perpetuall forme Can there be an outwarde essentiall thing without a forme Or can the essence be perpetuall and changeable and the form variable and mutable Can there be an immutable outward gouernment without immutable outward callinges offices and workes This is to giue a man without members a skinne for a bodye without bones and fleshe Lastly how iniurious is this vnto Christ he wil acknowledge the benefit must be had but he will not acknowledge the hand wherby it is giuen Christ is wise inough still to administer and rule and that he will gyue him leaue to doe But y â— he is wyse inough to doe it by his owne meanes that hee being The onelye Lorde should appoynt the diuers administrations of his Church alwayes y â— his spirite Shoulde minister fully sufficient diuersitie of giftes that one God shoulde worke the sufficient diuers faculties alwayes That is vntollerable false seditious hurtfull to the estate He can allow the people shoulde bee taught and exhorted and haue the Sacramentes but whether by Readers or by Teachers by reading Homilyes or by Pastours by men or women God his word doth not define the people must be ruled but whether by Gouernours appoynted by Christ or by men He must relieue his pore with almesse but whether by his Deacons or others that he muste seperate betwene the cleane and vncleane cast out the wicked but whether by his Church and Eldership or some other muste by no meanes be determined As if one should say it is essentiall and perpetuall that we haue our enteraunce into Christe and his Church our growing and nourishing in the same sealed vp perpetually but that it shall be done onelye by Baptisme and the Lordes Supper and not also by confirmation that maye not bee graunted Christ was wyse inough and willing inough to ordayne the effects but not the instrumentes If he saye he commaunded them saying Baptize doe this So we say he commanded the other saying I haue set Teachers Gouernours saying let the Doctor abide in Teaching the Pastour in exhortation the Elder in ruling the Deacon in distributing the Church euen the Eldership to be tolde and to excommunicate Lastly it is as if one should say I can wel allow her most excellent maiesty for her excellent wisedome to see the commonwealth administred iustice executed matters rightly pleaded determined but y â— this shalbe don by her most honorable couÌ„sel by her chief iustices by her iustices of peace by her Shiriefes and Balifes by her Sergeants at the lawe that I can not like or allow of As for y â— place of Tertulian it is plaine he meaneth it of the discipline in the course of life which is chaÌ„geable as may appeare by the testimenies alledged in the first point His next contradiction is concerning y â— means of liuing that y â— French church wold haue the rentes and reuenewes deliuered to the Deacons so the minister receiue his stipend but the booke of Discipline T. C. and the Admonition speaketh earnestly againste those who gape after Church-liuings and turne it to their purses and pleasure as though these could not stande together that they shoulde bee deliuered to the Churche onely and turned to holy vse that it shoulde bee administred by the Deacons or as though the playnesse of the one in reproouing an abuse bee contrary to the good order taken by the other Howsoeuer it be so the Christian Magistrate see the poore cared for by the Deacons and that they who preach the Gospell liue of the Gospell and that the Lord be thus honoured with our substance we acknowledge he doth his duety towardes the Church But if these want and the thinges giuen to that vse bee turned to the priuate commodity of some there is a defect in that behalfe But nowe this valiant champion will ouerthrowe the Eldership by such weapons as followe for T. C. Doth teach it from the Iewish Synedrion and out of the Talmud which according to Bonauentur and Danaeus handled ciuill thinges which our presbytery may not doe To which I aunswere that T. C. doth not fet it from y e Talmude but from the word of God as his whole disputation doth shew in that pointe onely hee sheweth that this presbytery hath beene continued vnder the Lawe and vnder the Gospell which is true and agreeed vppon by all three which he speaketh of It is also as fals y t Bonauenture speaketh so of the Ecclesiasticall Senate by it selfe for that which he noted is of the ciuill and politike synedrion Cap. 13. but hee maketh afterward when he handleth the Ecclesiastical pollicy of that time besides the priest and besides the Teachers in euery Sinagogue Senetors which inquired of theire manners which is manifeste by Exod. 4. 29. Exod. 17. 5. 2. King cap. 6. 32. Ier. 19. 1. Ezech. 8. 1. and Neh. 8. 5. Where are Elders occupied in Ecclesiasticall matters assistant to the Prophets and teaching Leuites and yet distinguished from them so as they medled not with the Word Danaeus in deede sayth they medled somtimes w t ciuil administrations which ours do not which thing yet maketh no contradiction to vs seeing we say with him that to ours is giuen by Christ Ecclesiastical authority only But the truth is y t they were then plainly distinguished some being for the matters of God and some for ciuill causes the matters of the king Now the cause of this which Danaeus speaketh of was that in waighty matters both came together because the politike lawes of the Jewes were for the moste part defined and set downe in the Worde of God they the Priest Leuites and Ecclesiasticall Elders were there to pronounce the sentence Ecclesiastically that is to pronounce y e sense of Gods word in y t cause the Princes cheefe of the people and ciuil Senate were to pronounce Ciuilly and iudicially the sentence of death or such like according to the sense of the Scriptures Secondly by the causes that when the Ecclesiasticall Senate commeth to the Ciuill the matters are thus mixt as Jeremy 26. 16. But when the matter is Ciuil meerely and no Question of the sense of the