Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	church_n	holy_a	truth_n	6,992	5	5.6746	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A92774	The diatribē proved to be paradiatribē. Or, A vindication of the judgement of the reformed churches, and Protestant divines, from misrepresentations concerning ordination, and laying on of hands. Together with a brief answer to the pretences of Edmond Chillenden, for the lawfulnesse of preaching without ordination. / By Lazarus Seaman.	Seaman, Lazarus, d. 1675.; Simpson, Sidrach, 1600?-1655.	1647 (1647)	Wing S2174; Thomason E413_9; ESTC R203508	93,768	122

who_o loin_n the_o natural_a succession_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n be_v propagate_v from_o adam_n yet_o i_o have_v endeavour_v in_o the_o follow_a answer_n pag._n 49._o &_o 84._o to_o remove_v that_o stone_n of_o stumble_v and_o rock_n of_o offence_n but_o whatever_o become_v of_o call_v to_o the_o ministry_n in_o the_o manner_n use_v heretofore_o i_o hope_v it_o will_v appear_v that_o for_o the_o time_n to_o come_v it_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o part_n at_o least_o by_o ordination_n and_o ordination_n by_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o protestant_n divine_n some_o will_v blame_v i_o for_o have_v say_v so_o much_o and_o other_o say_v they_o expect_v more_o but_o if_o this_o may_v be_v of_o any_o use_n towards_o the_o clear_a discovery_n and_o decision_n of_o the_o question_n under_o debate_n till_o those_o who_o be_v better_a able_a unite_v their_o shrength_n and_o bring_v in_o their_o supply_n this_o labour_n be_v not_o lose_v but_o how_o come_v it_o to_o pass_v that_o those_o who_o maintain_v that_o any_o one_o sufficient_o gift_a may_v preach_v and_o he_o who_o the_o people_n accept_v of_o as_o a_o minister_n to_o they_o be_v thereby_o make_v a_o minister_n raise_v such_o a_o dust_n about_o the_o call_v of_o other_o who_o have_v both_o their_o gift_n receive_v from_o god_n and_o the_o people_n acceptance_n to_o plead_v as_o well_o as_o themselves_o and_o do_v not_o rather_o quiet_a the_o people_n by_o instruct_v of_o they_o that_o dispute_v about_o the_o external_a call_v may_v be_v lay_v aside_o when_o as_o the_o internal_a call_n of_o god_n be_v evident_a and_o a_o further_a reformation_n about_o the_o outward_a call_v be_v every_o day_n endeavour_v my_o hope_n be_v to_o have_v at_o large_a examine_v that_o position_n also_o a_o man_n may_v lawful_o preach_v the_o word_n who_o be_v not_o call_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n which_o in_o the_o close_a of_o all_o i_o call_v a_o paradox_n mean_v a_o thing_n incredible_a as_o it_o relate_v to_o the_o ordinary_a practice_n of_o many_o in_o our_o time_n but_o for_o the_o present_a i_o have_v only_o hin●ed_v some_o head_n of_o a_o answer_n to_o another_o who_o have_v write_v since_o to_o the_o same_o effect_n and_o desire_v a_o little_a respite_n for_o the_o rest_n touch_v the_o author_n of_o the_o tract_n which_o i_o deal_v with_o as_o he_o be_v to_o i_o uncertain_a so_o will_v i_o have_v be_v to_o he_o if_o the_o press_n be_v not_o now_o under_o more_o restriction_n than_o it_o be_v at_o the_o time_n of_o his_o writing_n that_o there_o may_v be_v no_o occasion_n of_o digression_n from_o the_o matter_n to_o either_o of_o our_o person_n if_o any_o where_o i_o have_v mistake_v his_o sense_n fall_v short_a in_o answer_v or_o use_v any_o expression_n which_o prove_v displease_v i_o shall_v be_v willing_a to_o be_v rectify_v so_o the_o truth_n and_o those_o who_o be_v studious_a in_o thing_n of_o this_o nature_n may_v gain_v any_o real_a advantage_n though_o more_o by_o he_o and_o less_o by_o i_o it_o shall_v not_o i_o trust_v through_o he_o that_o strengthen_v i_o be_v any_o grief_n of_o spirit_n to_o i_o who_o desire_n be_v with_o the_o italian_a martyr_n that_o christ_n may_v live_v though_o idie_n and_o that_o he_o may_v increase_v though_o all_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n decrease_n for_o your_o part_n who_o be_v to_o judge_v betwixt_o we_o both_o you_o be_v entreat_v to_o weigh_v all_o thing_n sober_o and_o without_o prejudice_n that_o god_n who_o have_v promise_v his_o spirit_n to_o lead_v his_o into_o all_o truth_n guide_v we_o to_o the_o knowledge_n and_o love_n of_o truth_n amen_n imprimatur_fw-la edm._n calamy_n four_o proposition_n whereof_o three_o be_v prove_v by_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o attest_v unto_o by_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o their_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o book_n of_o discipline_n the_o four_o be_v a_o just_a consequence_n from_o the_o rest_n very_o necessary_a for_o all_o man_n to_o consider_v of_o in_o this_o juncture_n of_o time_n especial_o for_o those_o who_o have_v swear_v to_o reform_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o example_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n propos_fw-fr i._o the_o office_n of_o minister_n be_v always_o necessary_a in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o a_o ordinary_a mean_n of_o his_o institution_n to_o effect_v the_o salvation_n of_o the_o elect._n let_v these_o scripture_n be_v compare_v &_o weigh_v jer._n 3._o 15._o ephes_n 4._o 11_o 12._o 1_o tim._n 3._o 1._o 1_o cor._n 3._o 9_o chap._n 4._o 1._o 2_o cor._n 3._o 5_o 6._o ch_z 5._o 20._o ch_n 6._o 1._o mat._n 28._o 19_o 20._o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n touch_v this_o the_o latter_a confession_n of_o helvetia_n ch_n 18._o god_n have_v always_o use_v his_o minister_n for_o the_o gather_n and_o 56._o deus_fw-la ad_fw-la colligendam_fw-la vel_fw-la constituendam_fw-la sibi_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la eandemque_fw-la gubernandan_n ac_fw-la conseruandam_fw-la semper_fw-la usus_fw-la est_fw-la ministris_fw-la ilsque_fw-la utitur_fw-la adhuc_fw-la &_o utetur_fw-la porrò_fw-la quoad_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la in_o terris_fw-la fuerit_fw-la ergo_fw-la ministrorum_fw-la origo_fw-la institutio_fw-la &_o functio_fw-la vetustissima_fw-la &_o ipsius_fw-la dei_fw-la non_fw-la nova_fw-la aut_fw-la hominum_fw-la est_fw-la ordinatio_fw-la proinde_fw-la spectandi_fw-la sunt_fw-la ministri_fw-la non_fw-la ut_fw-la ministri_fw-la duntaxat_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la sed_fw-la sicut_fw-la ministri_fw-la dei_fw-la utpote_fw-la per_fw-la quos_fw-la deus_fw-la salutem_fw-la hominum_fw-la operatur_fw-la corpus_fw-la conf._n par_fw-fr 1._o p._n 56._o erect_v up_o of_o a_o church_n unto_o himself_o and_o for_o the_o govern_n and_o preservation_n of_o the_o same_o and_o always_o will_v use_v they_o so_o long_o as_o the_o church_n remain_v on_o earth_n therefore_o the_o first_o beginning_n institution_n and_o office_n of_o the_o minister_n be_v a_o most_o ancient_a ordinance_n of_o god_n himself_o not_o a_o new_a device_n appoint_v by_o man_n minister_n be_v to_o be_v consider_v not_o as_o minister_n by_o themselves_o alone_o but_o as_o minister_n of_o god_n even_o such_o as_o by_o who_o mean_n god_n do_v work_v the_o salvation_n of_o mankind_n harmony_n in_o engl._n print_v in_o 4._o anno_fw-la 1643._o pag._n 233._o the_o french_z confess_v see_v that_o we_o be_v not_o make_v partaker_n of_o christ_n but_o by_o 107._o credimus_fw-la quoniam_fw-la non_fw-la nisi_fw-la per_fw-la evangelium_fw-la simus_fw-la christi_fw-la compotes_fw-la oportere_fw-la sacram_fw-la &_o inviolabilé_fw-fr 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d ejus_fw-la authoritate_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la sancitan_fw-mi conservari_fw-la ac_fw-la proinde_fw-la requiri_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la pastor_n quibus_fw-la onus_fw-la docendi_fw-la verbi_fw-la &_o administrandi_fw-la sacramentorum_fw-la incumbat_fw-la itaque_fw-la fanaticos_fw-la illos_fw-la omnes_fw-la detest●●●ur_fw-la qui_fw-la qu●●rum_fw-la in_o se_fw-la est_fw-la sacrum_fw-la ministerium_fw-la sive_fw-la praedicationern_n verbi_fw-la &_o administrationem_fw-la sacramentorum_fw-la abolita_fw-la cupiunt_fw-la corp._n conf._n par_fw-fr 1._o pag._n 107._o the_o gospel_n we_o believe_v that_o that_o good_a order_n which_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o that_o gospel_n be_v confirm_v aught_o to_o be_v keep_v sacred_a and_o inviolable_a and_o that_o therefore_o pastor_n be_v necessary_o require_v in_o the_o church_n upon_o who_o shoulder_n the_o burden_n of_o teach_v the_o word_n and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n do_v lie_v therefore_o we_o detest_v all_o those_o fanatical_a spirit_n who_o as_o much_o as_o in_o they_o lie_v desire_v that_o both_o this_o sacred_a ministry_n or_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v utter_o abolish_v harm_n eng._n p._n 253._o propos_fw-fr ii_o beside_o the_o internal_a call_n of_o god_n and_o due_a qualification_n through_o the_o spirit_n a_o externall_n mediate_v call_v by_o man_n in_o the_o ordinary_a state_n of_o the_o church_n be_v necessary_a to_o put_v a_o man_n into_o the_o office_n of_o a_o minister_n and_o to_o enable_v he_o for_o the_o work_n proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n jer._n 14._o 14._o ch_n 23._o 21._o 1_o tim._n 3._o 2._o rom._n 10._o 15._o heb._n 5._o 4._o 2_o cor._n 3._o 1._o act._n 1._o 21_o 22._o the_o french_a confession_n art_n 31._o we_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o any_o man_n upon_o his_o 108._o credimu●_n nulli_fw-la fas_fw-la esse_fw-la suapte_v autoritate_fw-la invadere_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la gubernacula_fw-la sed_fw-la legitime_a electione_n quoad_fw-la ejus_fw-la fieri_fw-la potest_fw-la &_o quamdi●_n dominus_fw-la ejus_fw-la rel_n potestatem_fw-la facit_fw-la praeeunte_fw-la adscisci_fw-la unumquemque_fw-la oportere_fw-la corpus_fw-la conf._n par_fw-fr 1._o p._n 108._o own_o authority_n to_o take_v upon_o he_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n but_o that_o every_o one_o ought_v to_o be_v admit_v thereunto_o by_o a_o lawful_a election_n so_o near_o as_o may_v be_v and_o so_o long_o as_o the_o

ordination_n consist_v in_o the_o appoint_v of_o such_o for_o the_o holy_a ministry_n by_o person_n in_o office_n ruth_n due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n p._n 186._o ●_o do_v have_v first_o choose_v will_v not_o easy_o be_v prove_v 23._o prove_v it_o be_v not_o of_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o calling_n to_o be_v choose_v by_o voice_n of_o the_o people_n dr._n fulke_o on_o act._n 14._o 23._o 4._o whereas_o you_o speak_v of_o ordination_n common_o so_o call_v you_o name_v neither_o church_n nor_o divine_a who_o state_n it_o as_o you_o do_v here_o and_o i_o think_v you_o can_v name_v none_o be_v it_o a_o act_n of_o minister_n or_o elder_n after_o examination_n and_o election_n there_o must_v be_v something_o add_v to_o make_v it_o a_o definition_n or_o description_n in_o stead_n of_o the_o quid_fw-la rei_fw-la you_o give_v we_o only_o the_o qu●●d●_n if_o your_o proof_n have_v no_o more_o strength_n than_o your_o exp●●ation_n have_v clearness_n and_o fullness_n you_o may_v still_o conceal_v your_o ●a●e_n and_o that_o will_v be_v your_o best_a advantage_n in_o that_o sense_n ordination_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o the_o call_v of_o minister_n ans_fw-fr 1._o this_o imply_v there_o be_v a_o scripture-sense_n wherein_o ordination_n be_v essential_a to_o the_o call_v of_o a_o minister_n or_o else_o you_o oppose_v it_o in_o all_o sense_n and_o then_o what_o need_v those_o word_n in_o that_o sense_n if_o there_o be_v a_o sense_n wherein_o you_o with_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o protestant_n divine_n do_v grant_v it_o why_o be_v that_o conceal_v 2._o if_o your_o thesis_n have_v be_v entire_o express_v it_o will_v run_v thus_o ordination_n as_o it_o be_v common_o take_v for_o a_o act_n of_o minister_n or_o elder_n after_o examination_n and_o election_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n put_v then_o what_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o it_o that_o no_o act_n of_o minister_n and_o elder_n about_o the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n be_v essential_a thereunto_o or_o none_o but_o examination_n and_o election_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v not_o your_o sense_n that_o examination_n and_o election_n by_o minister_n or_o elder_n be_v essential_a to_o the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n and_o tha●_n these_o together_o be_v common_o call_v ordination_n that_o no_o act_n of_o minister_n or_o elder_n whatsoever_o be_v essential_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v will_v not_o be_v find_v to_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o protestant_n divine_n and_o that_o without_o limitation_n and_o restriction_n which_o ditatis_fw-la formadat_fw-la esse_fw-la materia_fw-la est_fw-la part_n quid_fw-la ditatis_fw-la yet_o in_o your_o title_n you_o pretend_v unto_o 3._o the_o word_n essential_a may_v prove_v a_o blind_a to_o some_o reader_n be_v a_o term_n of_o art_n which_o learned_a one_o agree_v not_o about_o that_o form_n give_v be_v and_o yet_o matter_n be_v part_n of_o the_o quiddity_n as_o also_o 604._o quod_fw-la essentianam_fw-la rei_fw-la non_fw-la constituit_fw-la sine_fw-la eo_fw-la essentia_fw-la rei_fw-la salva_fw-la esse_fw-la potest_fw-la propria_fw-la adjuncta_fw-la non_fw-la constituunt_fw-la essentirei_fw-la ergo_fw-la sine_fw-la iis_fw-la essentia_fw-la rei_fw-la salva_fw-la esse_fw-la potest_fw-la &_o ●x_fw-la consequenti_fw-la n●n_fw-la debent_fw-la vocari_fw-la essentialia_fw-la heiz_v nullus_fw-la philosophorum_fw-la in_o ●oto_fw-la orbe_fw-la terrar●i_fw-la dabit_fw-la tibi_fw-la majorem_fw-la rod._n goclen_n ad_fw-la pisc●●_fw-la piscator_fw-la in_o thesibus_fw-la p._n 604._o the_o distinction_n of_o essential_a into_o 1._o antecedent_n 2._o constituent_a and_o 3._o consequent_a be_v common_a in_o the_o school_n yet_o in_o a_o learned_a company_n i_o have_v hear_v it_o to_o be_v by_o one_o of_o they_o little_o less_o than_o hiss_v at_o one_o heizo_n propound_v this_o argument_n against_o piscator_fw-la the_o essence_n of_o a_o thing_n may_v be_v without_o that_o which_o do_v not_o constitute_v it_o proper_a adjunct_n do_v not_o constitute_v the_o essence_n therefore_o the_o essence_n may_v be_v without_o they_o and_o consequent_o they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v call_v essential_a rodolphus_n goclenius_n professor_n at_o marpurg_n answer_v for_o pisc_n no_o philosopher_n in_o all_o the_o world_n will_v grant_v the_o major_a so_o as_o if_o ordination_n be_v not_o constitutive_a yet_o if_o it_o do_v necessary_o follow_v upon_o that_o act_n which_o do_v as_o suppose_v election_n by_o minister_n or_o elder_n with_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n it_o may_v be_v call_v essential_a what_o think_v you_o of_o this_o whether_o ordination_n be_v not_o at_o '_o integrall_a *_o zanc._n make_v election_n and_o ordination_n part_n of_o call_v so_o ames_n if_o part_n then_o essential_a or_o integrall_a least_n a_o integrall_a part_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v and_o whether_o some_o integrall_a part_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o a_o integrall_a whole_a and_o ordination_n such_o a_o part_n of_o call_v 4._o in_o plain_a word_n i_o suppose_v this_o to_o be_v your_o meaning_n no_o man_n who_o desire_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n needs_o be_v ordain_v and_o if_o he_o be_v he_o be_v not_o thereby_o make_v a_o minister_n and_o this_o you_o assert_v without_o any_o distinction_n of_o time_n or_o state_n of_o the_o church_n or_o of_o call_v whether_o it_o be_v mediate_v or_o immediate_a ordinary_a extraordinary_a or_o mix_v you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v marriage_n as_o a_o act_n of_o minister_n or_o magistrate_n after_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o party_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o the_o call_n of_o man_n and_o wife_n none_o need_v to_o be_v so_o marry_v and_o if_o they_o be_v they_o be_v not_o thereby_o make_v man_n and_o wife_n wise_a man_n will_v soon_o perceive_v that_o your_o word_n essential_a will_v not_o be_v a_o sufficient_a salvo_fw-la against_o the_o danger_n of_o such_o a_o position_n family_n be_v likely_a to_o be_v destroy_v by_o it_o notwithstanding_o he_o that_o say_v no_o act_n of_o minister_n or_o elder_n be_v essential_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v will_v say_v as_o much_o with_o fair_a pretence_n of_o magistrate_n and_o then_o either_o nothing_o be_v essential_a or_o something_o to_o be_v do_v by_o the_o people_n or_o something_o immediate_o on_o god_n part_n what_o follow_v upon_o this_o but_o either_o erastianisme_n that_o there_o be_v no_o church-power_n or_o order_n brownisme_n that_o all_o power_n be_v in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n or_o enthusiasm_n that_o every_o man_n be_v to_o act_v in_fw-la sacris_fw-la as_o he_o be_v lead_v by_o inspiration_n without_o respect_n to_o polity_n if_o this_o be_v your_o judgement_n yet_o methinks_v it_o sound_v not_o like_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o protestant_n divine_n papist_n use_v to_o impose_v such_o a_o sense_n upon_o they_o and_o they_o use_v to_o disclaim_v it_o yet_o i_o do_v not_o wonder_v that_o you_o be_v thus_o bold_a with_o they_o see_v you_o begin_v with_o first_o second_o and_z third_z etc._n etc._n which_o must_v be_v understand_v either_o of_o scripture_n or_o reason_n or_o both_o as_o if_o right_a reason_n and_o that_o spirit_n which_o lead_v into_o all_o truth_n be_v full_o on_o your_o side_n in_o this_o cause_n whereas_o i_o fear_v they_o be_v not_o 5._o as_o to_o your_o position_n in_o your_o own_o term_n ordination_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n the_o reader_n who_o be_v to_o judge_v betwixt_o we_o both_o must_v observe_v this_o mystery_n ordination_n be_v take_v two_o way_n in_o the_o reform_a church_n among_o protestant_a divine_n 1._o first_o and_o most_o frequent_o for_o the_o rite_n of_o impose_v hand_n which_o be_v the_o last_o act_n whereby_o a_o minister_n call_v be_v consummate_v this_o because_o they_o call_v it_o a_o rite_n they_o do_v not_o count_v essential_a that_o be_v always_o and_o in_o all_o case_n absolute_o necessary_a especial_o as_o appropriate_v unto_o bishop_n distinct_a from_o presbyter_n jure_fw-la divino_fw-la but_o they_o hold_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a and_o more_o or_o less_o necessary_a in_o a_o settle_a and_o well-ordered_a church_n 2._o ordination_n signify_v that_o act_n wherein_o and_o whereby_o church-governors_n do_v in_o the_o name_n and_o stead_n of_o christ_n set_v apart_o one_o to_o be_v a_o minister_n and_o by_o such_o separation_n make_v he_o one_o with_o prayer_n fast_v and_o either_o with_o or_o without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n here_o they_o distinguish_v of_o the_o time_n and_o state_n of_o the_o church_n and_o though_o in_o my_o observation_n the_o term_n essential_a be_v use_v spare_o yet_o the_o necessity_n of_o this_o thing_n in_o the_o substance_n of_o it_o in_o a_o mediate_a call_n and_o regular_a state_n of_o the_o church_n be_v every_o where_o assert_v praec_fw-la assert_v nemo_fw-la ad_fw-la ordinariam_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la functionem_fw-la admitti_fw-la debeat_fw-la nisi_fw-la legitime_fw-la vocatus_fw-la eoque_fw-la legitime_fw-la electus_fw-la &_o ordinatus_fw-la zanch._n in_o

ecclesia_fw-la constituti_fw-la a●d_v though_o after_o he_o show_v the_o invalidity_n of_o their_o call_n ex_fw-la ipsis_fw-la canonibus_fw-la quos_fw-la jactant_fw-la out_o of_o those_o canon_n which_o they_o boast_v of_o yet_o he_o bring_v not_o one_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o to_o be_v include_v in_o the_o original_a word_n so_o much_o insist_v on_o and_o if_o the_o word_n elder_n use_v in_o that_o text_n be_v to_o be_v take_v synecdochical_o for_o pastor_n deacon_n and_o rule_v elder_n as_o he_o there_o expound_v it_o why_o may_v it_o not_o as_o well_o be_v say_v that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o signif●●_n choose_v do_v also_o include_v ordain_v because_o it_o appear_v by_o act._n 6._o that_o with_o choose_v ordination_n by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v also_o use_v this_o by_o the_o way_n to_o your_o parenthesis_n to_o the_o inconvenience_n itself_o i_o answer_v 1._o the_o ordination_n of_o rom●sh_a priest_n as_o priest_n be_v a_o mere_a nullity_n because_o the_o priesthood_n i●_n self_n be_v so_o but_o their_o ordination_n adonus_fw-la presbyterii_fw-la to_o preach_v and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n be_v of_o another_o nature_n and_o therefore_o these_o must_v not_o be_v confound_v together_o the_o rather_o because_o in_o their_o manner_n of_o ordain_v they_o be_v real_o distinguish_v romanum_fw-la distinguish_v vide_fw-la pontisicale_n romanum_fw-la 2._o though_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n deny_v a_o lawful_a ministry_n and_o call_v thereunto_o to_o be_v in_o the_o roman_a hierarchy_n as_o *_o beza_n and_o sadeel_n not_o as_o make_v of_o it_o to_o be_v simple_o invalid_a and_o null_a but_o extreme_a sinful_a yet_o they_o must_v not_o be_v interpret_v too_o rigorous_o unless_o we_o mean_v to_o set_v protestant_n at_o variance_n among_o themselves_o to_o our_o own_o prejudice_n and_o that_o 1._o because_o the_o lutheran_n do_v maintain_v the_o ordinary_a call_v which_o luther_n have_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o sufficient_a and_o 2._o not_o they_o only_a but_o divers_a also_o of_o the_o calvinist_n as_o voetius_fw-la forbes_n festus_n homius_fw-la etc._n etc._n 3._o they_o who_o say_v there_o be_v something_o extraordinary_a in_o luther_n call_v do_v place_n that_o extraordinarinesse_n rather_o in_o his_o spirit_n gift_n success_n and_o manner_n of_o ministry_n than_o in_o the_o call_v itself_o and_o therefore_o make_v his_o call_v mix_v 3._o the_o most_o judicious_a and_o best_a approve_a among_o we_o do_v hold_n that_o as_o baptism_n so_o ordination_n even_o in_o rome_n be_v so_o far_o forth_o valid_a that_o upon_o separation_n from_o they_o and_o join_v with_o we_o there_o need_v neither_o new_a baptism_n nor_o a_o new_a ordination_n 4._o we_o all_o agree_v that_o a_o call_v from_o rome_n be_v not_o necessary_a at_o all_o against_o the_o papist_n who_o make_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v the_o fountain_n of_o order_n and_o jurisdiction_n 5._o this_o inconvenience_n follow_v not_o at_o at_o all_o upon_o the_o opinion_n that_o ordination_n be_v essential_a but_o upon_o that_o mistake_n only_o that_o the_o lawful_a way_n of_o call_v be_v one_o only_o in_o all_o case_n and_o condition_n of_o the_o church_n wherein_o whesoever_o engage_v either_o for_o election_n or_o ordination_n apart_o and_o much_o more_o for_o both_o together_o will_v be_v sure_a to_o plunge_v himself_o into_o inextricable_a labyrinth_n i_o approve_v our_o man_n say_v reverend_a forbes_n who_o sustain_v our_o ordinary_a vocation_n in_o common_a but_o who_o plead_v so_o for_o it_o as_o a_o point_n absolute_o requisite_a for_o approve_v our_o cause_n and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n of_o the_o church_n do_v place_n all_o defence_n therein_o in_o my_o judgement_n they_o do_v wrong_o limit_v the_o holy_a one_o of_o israel_n against_o both_o the_o privilege_n of_o his_o power_n and_o his_o usual_a manner_n of_o deal_n in_o such_o case_n forbes_n defence_n of_o the_o lawful_a call_v sec_fw-la 28._o pag._n 60._o to_o your_o second_o inconvenience_n that_o then_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o spouse_n of_o christ_n i_o answer_v 1._o it_o follow_v not_o because_o in_o a_o false_a church_n there_o may_v be_v something_o true_a 2._o many_o protestant_a divine_n be_v not_o afraid_a to_o grant_v that_o in_o some_o sense_n it_o be_v a_o true_a church_n so_o at_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o extinct_a in_o rome_n neither_o do_v the_o ministry_n altogether_o perish_v there_o pr●●_n there_o ●●a_fw-la ut_fw-la sicut_fw-la non_fw-la penitus_fw-la exti●cta_fw-la ibi_fw-la suis_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la sic_fw-la neque_fw-la penitus_fw-la interitrit_a ibi_fw-la mini●terium_fw-la zanch._n i●_n 4_o pr●●_n 3._o this_o objection_n be_v so_o full_o answer_v by_o all_o our_o writer_n of_o this_o subject_n against_o the_o papist_n that_o it_o be_v not_o worth_a the_o while_n to_o transcribe_v they_o vide_fw-la voetium_n quo_fw-la supra_fw-la 4._o those_o who_o be_v common_o call_v brownist_n be_v sufficient_o zealous_a against_o rome_n and_o yet_o even_o among_o they_o the_o more_o moderate_a part_n as_o johnson_n and_o his_o follower_n do_v not_o only_o grant_v that_o the_o society_n common_o call_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n without_o all_o fear_n of_o inconvenience_n but_o labour_n at_o large_a to_o prove_v it_o 215._o it_o christian_n plea_n by_o fran._n johnson_n print_a anno_fw-la 1617._o hom_n pag._n 119._o ●●_o 215._o the_o more_o rigid_a of_o they_o who_o deny_v that_o which_o he_o grant_v as_o robinson_n and_o ainsworth_n yet_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o rome_n there_o be_v some_o true_a ordinance_n as_o baptism_n for_o instance_n and_o in_o grant_v the_o administration_n of_o baptism_n with_o those_o of_o rome_n to_o be_v valid_a and_o yet_o deny_v the_o church_n to_o be_v true_a they_o must_v needs_o reject_v your_o consequence_n as_o the_o lord_n have_v his_o people_n in_o babylon_n say_v robinson_n his_o i_o mean_v both_o in_o respect_n of_o election_n and_o of_o personal_a sanctification_n so_o have_v he_o for_o their_o sake_n there_o preserve_v notwithstanding_o all_o the_o apostasy_n and_o confusion_n which_o be_v find_v in_o it_o sundry_a his_o holy_a truth_n and_o ordinance_n among_o which_o baptism_n be_v one_o robin_n justificat_fw-la of_o separate_a ed._n ult_n p._n 232._o if_o the_o question_n he_o whether_o ordination_n or_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o another_o ordinance_n retain_v in_o rome_n from_o the_o beginning_n the_o reader_n shall_v do_v well_o to_o weigh_v what_o follow_v here_o out_o of_o mr._n johnson_n one_o of_o no_o mean_a account_n among_o the_o brethren_n of_o the_o separation_n whereas_o one_o that_o be_v minister_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v after_o choose_v teacher_n to_o a_o separate_a congregation_n without_o any_o new_a imposition_n of_o hand_n he_o labour_v for_o to_o justify_v it_o after_o this_o manner_n in_o his_o ans_fw-fr to_o the_o letter_n of_o h._n a._n touch_v the_o division_n among_o themselves_o p._n 50._o &_o seq_fw-la the_o anabaptist_n hold_v say_v he_o that_o antichrist_n have_v utter_o destroy_v all_o god_n ordinance_n so_o as_o there_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o true_a baptism_n retain_v and_o have_v among_o they_o h._n e._n in_o rome_n or_o england_n thereupon_o they_o begin_v to_o baptize_v themselves_o again_o who_o error_n while_o we_o confute_v and_o while_o some_o of_o they_o object_v that_o we_o shall_v no_o more_o retain_v the_o baptism_n than_o the_o ministry_n there_o receive_v we_o have_v just_a occasion_n thereupon_o to_o consider_v thereof_o and_o so_o weigh_v with_o ourselves_o that_o one_o main_a and_o special_a reason_n against_o rebaptisation_n be_v because_o baptism_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n which_o be_v have_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n before_o she_o fall_v into_o apostasy_n and_o have_v be_v there_o continue_v ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n time_n however_o it_o be_v co-mingled_n among_o they_o with_o many_o corruption_n and_o invention_n of_o their_o own_o we_o begin_v to_o consider_v whether_o the_o like_a may_v not_o be_v observe_v and_o say_v concern_v imposition_n of_o hand_n that_o it_o be_v have_v from_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n before_o her_o apostasy_n and_o be_v there_o continue_v to_o this_o day_n though_o mix_v with_o many_o pollution_n and_o devise_n of_o their_o own_o and_o enter_v into_o a_o consideration_n thereof_o we_o observe_v 1._o that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v of_o god_n and_o not_o a_o invention_n of_o man_n not_o a_o post_n or_o threshold_n first_o bring_v by_o antichrist_n into_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n but_o have_v therein_o afore_o antichrist_n sit_v there_o 2._o that_o baptism_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v join_v together_o among_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o foundation_n speak_v of_o heb._n 6._o 2._o which_o we_o think_v therefore_o shall_v in_o this_o behalf_n be_v well_o regard_v 3._o that_o imposition_n of_o

manifest_a constat_fw-la cum_fw-la ex_fw-la scripturae_fw-la mandatis_fw-la tum_fw-la exemplis_fw-la tit._n 1._o 5._o 1_o tim._n 4_o 14._o 2_o tim._n 22._o act._n 14._o 23._o eos_n qui_fw-la jam_fw-la sunt_fw-la i●_n m●n●sterio_n &_o profitentur_fw-la sacram_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la adhibendos_fw-la esse_fw-la quando_fw-la per_fw-la medi●tam_fw-la vo●ationem_fw-la all_o cvi_fw-la comm●ndandum_fw-la est_fw-la ministerium_fw-la turbulenti_fw-la &_o sedui_fw-la si_fw-la anabaptistae_fw-la minime_fw-la rectè_fw-la faciunt_fw-la qui_fw-la vocabulo_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la intell_n gunt_fw-la tantum_fw-la promiscuam_fw-la multitudinem_fw-la excluso_fw-la ministerio_fw-la &_o pio_fw-la magistratu_fw-la chemnit_fw-la par_fw-fr 8._o l._n c._n de_fw-fr ecclesia_fw-la pag_n 134._o what_o you_o find_v in_o chemnitius_n in_o favour_n of_o ordination_n as_o a_o act_n of_o minister_n and_o elder_n when_o you_o be_v upon_o that_o head_n be_v not_o those_o his_o word_n which_o you_o have_v here_o in_o the_o margin_n 2._o touch_v the_o matter_n itself_o which_o you_o here_o refer_v unto_o you_o mis-relate_a he_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n in_o the_o ordinary_a and_o regular_a call_n of_o a_o minister_n for_o therein_o he_o suppose_v imposition_n of_o hand_n shall_v be_v use_v but_o of_o a_o certain_a case_n nam_fw-la interdum_fw-la hujusmodi_fw-la casus_fw-la incidunt_fw-la ut_fw-la quis_fw-la habeat_fw-la vocationem_fw-la &_o impediatur_fw-la quo_fw-la minus_fw-la se_fw-la conferat_fw-la ad_fw-la nobiliorem_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la in_fw-la quâ_fw-la accipiat_fw-la ritum_fw-la ordinationis_fw-la questio_fw-la ergo_fw-la est_fw-la an_z illius_fw-la ministerium_fw-la sit_fw-la evacuatum_fw-la his_o answer_n be_v aliqui_fw-la id_fw-la affirmant_fw-la aliqui_fw-la negant_fw-la some_o grant_v it_o some_o deny_v it_o 3._o it_o suffice_v i_o that_o he_o grant_v imposition_n of_o hand_n to_o be_v necessary_a in_o any_o respect_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n for_o they_o who_o agree_v in_o that_o will_v agree_v in_o a_o warrantable_a use_n of_o this_o rite_n neither_o the_o peace_n nor_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n will_v be_v disturb_v though_o it_o be_v not_o hold_v to_o be_v essential_a 4._o take_v his_o own_o word_n full_o sed_fw-la tamen_fw-la propte●_n eos_fw-la qui_fw-la currunt_fw-la &_o non_fw-la missi_fw-la sunt_fw-la vocatio_fw-la debet_fw-la habere_fw-la publicum_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la testimonium_fw-la et_fw-la ritus_fw-la ordinationis_fw-la nihil_fw-la aliud_fw-la est_fw-la quàm_fw-la talis_fw-la publica_fw-la testificatio_fw-la quâ_fw-la vocatio_fw-la illa_fw-la in_o conspectu_fw-la dei_fw-la &_o ipsius_fw-la nomine_fw-la declaratur_fw-la esse_fw-la legitima_fw-la &_o divina_fw-la and_o consider_v whether_o th●s_n follow_v not_o a_o minister_n call_v be_v then_o declare_v lawful_a and_o divine_a and_o so_o to_o be_v repute_v when_o he_o be_v ordain_v by_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n and_o if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n of_o such_o declaration_n to_o be_v f●und_v in_o scripture_n this_o of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n will_v be_v essential_a to_o it_o 5._o whereas_o you_o single_v out_o those_o word_n only_o ordinatio_fw-la non_fw-la facit_fw-la vocationem_fw-la ordination_n make_v not_o his_o call_v but_o declare_v it_o the_o entire_a sentence_n be_v this_o licet_fw-la ergo_fw-la ordinatio_fw-la non_fw-la facit_fw-la vocationem_fw-la si_fw-la tamen_fw-la quis_fw-la legitimè_fw-la est_fw-la vocatus_fw-la ille_fw-la ritus_fw-la est_fw-la declaratio_fw-la &_o confirmatio_fw-la vocationem_fw-la illam_fw-la quae_fw-la praecessit_fw-la esse_fw-la legitimam_fw-la here_o be_v two_o thing_n which_o you_o leave_v out_o 1._o that_o ordination_n be_v a_o confirmation_n of_o that_o call_v as_o well_o as_o a_o declaration_n 2._o it_o be_v not_o bare_o a_o declaration_n of_o the_o call_v but_o of_o the_o lawfulness_n so_o as_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o call_n may_v just_o be_v question_v which_o have_v not_o be_v declare_v by_o ordination_n 6._o this_o rite_n be_v not_o retain_v chief_o for_o the_o prayer_n sake_n as_o you_o translate_v his_o word_n but_o rather_o for_o the_o benefit_n of_o such_o prayer_n as_o use_v to_o be_v make_v at_o ordination_n et_fw-la illas_fw-la preces_fw-la tali_fw-la ritu_fw-la peractas_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la inane_n testatur_fw-la moses_n deut._n 34._o 9_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o 2_o tim_n 1._o 6._o 7._o as_o i_o grant_v those_o be_v his_o word_n fatendum_fw-la sanè_fw-la etc._n etc._n so_o you_o can_v deny_v that_o these_o which_o follow_v be_v his_o also_o habet_fw-la tamen_fw-la ille_fw-la sva_fw-la fundamenta_fw-la in_o verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la this_o rite_n have_v its_o foundation_n in_o hhe_a word_n of_o god_n 8._o it_o be_v much_o that_o you_o have_v allege_v out_o of_o chemnitius_n but_o be_v there_o nothing_o else_o which_o be_v of_o concernment_n for_o the_o reader_n to_o know_v touch_v this_o rite_n you_o know_v there_o be_v more_o pag._n 138._o where_o he_o give_v a_o account_n to_o what_o end_n and_o use_v imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v retain_v in_o the_o reform_a church_n as_o 1._o hillo_o publico_fw-la ritu_fw-la testamur_fw-la hoc_fw-la opus_fw-la licèt_fw-la sit_fw-la mediatum_fw-la esse_fw-la tamen_fw-la verè_fw-la divinum_fw-la by_o this_o public_a rite_n we_o testify_v that_o this_o work_n although_o it_o be_v mediate_v yet_o it_o be_v true_o divine_a for_o it_o be_v not_o we_o but_o god_n work_n which_o we_o perform_v who_o call_v and_o ordain_v that_o person_n by_o we_o 2._o hac_fw-la impositione_n manuum_fw-la sistitur_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ut_fw-la haec_fw-la quoque_fw-la admoneatur_fw-la deum_fw-la per_fw-la hanc_fw-la personam_fw-la &_o ejus_fw-la ministerium_fw-la velle_fw-la ipsos_fw-la docere_fw-la exhortari_fw-la consolari_fw-la sacramenta_fw-la administrare_fw-la peccata_fw-la vel_fw-la absolvere_fw-la vel_fw-la ligare_fw-la by_o this_o imposition_n of_o hand_n the_o minister_n be_v present_v to_o the_o church_n that_o they_o also_o may_v be_v admonish_v that_o god_n by_o he_o and_o his_o ministry_n will_v teach_v exhort_v and_o co●fort_v they_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n unto_o they_o and_o loose_a or_o bind_v their_o sin_n but_o the_o people_n must_v hear_v nothing_o of_o this_o kind_n from_o protestant_a divine_n lest_o they_o soon_o perceive_v that_o those_o minister_n who_o make_v they_o believe_v that_o power_n of_o ordination_n belong_v unto_o the_o people_n do_v deceive_v and_o that_o there_o be_v something_o belong_v to_o the_o call_v of_o a_o minister_n which_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n itself_o can_v belong_v to_o the_o people_n or_o to_o any_o of_o their_o depute_v to_o this_o act_n but_o to_o such_o as_o be_v already_o minister_n by_o they_o to_o be_v perform_v towards_o the_o people_n in_o the_o name_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n alone_o authoritas_fw-la coram_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la tribuitur_fw-la ei_fw-la cuimanus_fw-la sunt_fw-la impositae_fw-la authority_n be_v confer_v on_o he_o public_o before_o the_o church_n on_o who_o hand_n be_v lay_v thus_o chemnitius_n but_o this_o be_v not_o for_o your_o turn_n neither_o do_v it_o serve_v ad_fw-la captandum_fw-la populum_fw-la to_o hear_v of_o authority_n confer_v on_o minister_n especial_o by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n thus_o far_o of_o chemnitius_n to_o that_o of_o danaeus_n in_o 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v not_o necessary_a so_o there_o be_v but_o prayer_n make_v to_o confirm_v the_o party_n elect_v and_o the_o whole_a church_n join_v in_o prayer_n with_o he_o that_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n will_v strengthen_v he_o and_o he_o give_v among_o other_o reason_n as_o that_o prayer_n be_v all_o this_o for_o one_o qui_fw-la hanc_fw-la ceremoniam_fw-la praecise_a urgent_o incidunt_fw-la in_o vanas_fw-la quaestiones_fw-la &_o ineptas_fw-la the_o urge_n of_o it_o breed_v vain_a and_o foolish_a question_n about_o minister_n calling_n i_o answer_v 1._o i_o question_v whether_o ever_o you_o consult_v with_o the_o author_n himself_o and_o do_v not_o rather_o transcribe_v a_o little_a out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o find_v cite_v in_o tarnovius_n if_o you_o do_v it_o further_o appear_v how_o partial_a and_o unfaithful_a you_o be_v in_o set_v down_o the_o judgement_n of_o protestant_n divine_v for_o he_o make_v a_o act_n of_o the_o presbyter_n not_o only_o to_o be_v necessary_a but_o necessary_a in_o the_o first_o place_n before_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o people_n be_v ask_v in_o call_v of_o a_o minister_n and_o give_v five_o strong_a reason_n for_o it_o to_o which_o i_o refer_v the_o studious_a reader_n in_o the_o book_n itself_o pag._n 352_o 253_o 254._o 2._o whereas_o you_o say_v lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v not_o necessary_a danaeus_n his_o own_o word_n pag._n 360_o be_v non_fw-la usque_fw-la adeo_fw-la certè_fw-la necessaria_fw-la est_fw-la and_o so_o they_o be_v also_o in_o tarnovius_n so_o as_o you_o can_v pretend_v that_o he_o deceive_v you_o in_o this_o by_o that_o manner_n of_o expression_n he_o grant_v some_o necessity_n though_o not_o absolute_a and_o do_v not_o simple_o say_v as_o 〈◊〉_d lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v not_o necessary_a 3._o that_o reason_n that_o prayer_n be_v all_o be_v obtrude_v on_o he_o if_o i_o mistake_v not_o and_o not_o to_o be_v find_v in_o any_o of_o his_o expression_n 4._o