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A58877 Conversations upon several subjects in two tomes / written in French by Mademoiselle de Scudery ; and done into English, by Mr. Ferrand Spence.; Conversations sur divers sujets. English Scudéry, Madeleine de, 1607-1701.; Spence, Ferrand. 1683 (1683) Wing S2157; ESTC R5948 181,005 434

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'T is also a great imperfection for one said Cerinta to affect to show all his Wit and I know a Man who in the very first visits he makes in places where he would render himself acceptable passes continually from one subject to another without examining any to the bottom and I may affirm without exaggeration that in an hours time I have heard him speak of all the things that fall under Discourse since he told not only all that passed at Court but likewise all that passed in the City Then he told all that he had done that day he also related what was said in the places where he had that day been and asked Arpasia what she had done Afterward he rallied Melinta for her silence and then fell to talk of Musick and Painting He made several proposals of going abroad and said so many different things that a Man in the company taking notice of this great diversity made others likewise observe it with intention to commend him for in short said he after having caus'd it to be remark'd there is nothing more tiresome than to fall into Converse with those sort of People who apply themselves to the first thing that is started and do so canvass it that in a whole Afternoon they never change discourse For as Conversation ought to be free and natural and that all those who compose the Company have equally right to change it as they think fit it is an importunate thing to meet with those opiniative People who leave nothing to be said upon a subject and who are ever harping upon it what care soever is taken to interrupt ' em For my part said Cilenia I am very much concerned to hear you all talk at the rate you do for in short if it is not fitting to be always like Damophilus talking of Sciences if it be tedious to discourse of all the little cares of a Family if it be not convenient to speak often of Cloths if it is a want of judgment to discourse only of intrigues of Gallantry if there is but little diversion in speaking of Genealogies if it is too mean to discourse of Lands sold or exchang'd if it be likewise forbidden to speak too much of our own Affairs if too great a gravity is not diverting in Conversation if there is folly in laughing too often and in laughing without reason if the relations of fatal and extraordinary Accidents are not acceptable if the little Transactions of the Neighborhood are tedious to those who live not thereabouts if those Conversations of little things that are whispered in the ear are importunate if those People are to blame who only discourse of Great Occurrences if those eternal seekers of Cabinet Counsels are not in the right what must we then talk of and of what must the Conversation be compos'd to render it both rational and pleasing It must be of all that we have found fault with Valeria reply'd agreeably and smiling in short though all those People we have mentioned are incommodious I however boldly maintain that we cannot speak but of what they do and that the same subjects may furnish matter agreeably to discourse on notwithstanding they prove so mortifying in those Peoples management I easily apprehend what Valeria says is true reply'd Amilcar though it did not seem so to me at first for I am so perswaded all sort of things are proper for Conversation that I do not except any And indeed added Valeria it is not in any wise to be imagined that there are things that are not sit for Discourse for 't is true that there are certain Encounters wherein such things might be very properly spoken that would be ridiculous on any other Occasion For my part said Amithone I confess I could wish there were rules for Conversation as there are for many other things The principal rule replied Valeria is never to say any thing that contradicts the Judgment But still added Nicanor I would willingly know more precisely how you conceive the Conversation ought to be I conceive replied she that to speak in general it ought oftner to be of common and galla●…t things than of great Transactions but however I conceive that nothing is forbidden that it ought to be free and diversified according to the times places and persons with whom we are and that the secret is of speaking always nobly of mean things very plainly of high things and very gallantly of gallant things without transport and affectation Thus though the Conversation ought ever to be equally natural and rational yet I must say that on some occasions the Sciences themselves may be brought in with a good grace and that agreeable follies may likewise have their place provided they be ingenious modest and gallant insomuch as to speak with reason we may for certain affirm that there is nothing but may be said in Conversation in case it be manag'd with Wit and Judgment and the Party considers well where he is to whom he speaks and who he is himself Notwithstanding though Judgment be absolutely necessary for the never saying any thing but what is to the purpose yet the Conversation must appear so free as to make it seem we don 't reject any of our thoughts and all is said that comes into the fancy without any affected design of speaking rather of one thing than of another For there is no thing more ridiculous than those People who have subjects on which they talk Wonders and except in such cases can say nothing but impertinencies So I would never have it known what it is we are to say and yet that we always know well what it is we say For if this course be taken Women will not impertinently pretend to be knowing nor be ignorant to excess and every one will say what he ought to say for the rendring the Conversation agreeable But what is most necessary to make it soft and diverting is that it must be influenced with a certain spirit of Politeness which absolutely banishes all bitter Raileries as well as all those which may in any wise offend Modesly and in short 't is likewise requisite to know the art of turning things so handsomely that a Gallantry may be told to the severest Woman in the world that a little Foppery may be related to grave and serious People that you may speak properly of the Sciences to the ignorant if you be forced to it and in sum that you may change your wit according to the things that are spoken of and according to the People you discourse with But besides all I have now said I would have it likewise governed with a certain spirit of joy which without having the least taint of those eternal laughers who make so great a noise for so small a matter do however inspire a disposition into the hearts of all the company to make every thing contribute to their diversion and to weary themselves with nothing I and I would have both mean
it is for Men to adore something that Great Nations are seen to worship Beasts rather than adore nothing as is reported by those who have travelled into Egypt And indeed said Chrysantes no more natural it is to desire Life and fear Death than to believe there is a Deity the Structure of the World is so great so beautiful so regular that it is worthy of all our admiration The Sun Stars and Heaven in general do so far surpass our knowledge notwithstanding all the discourses upon 'em that we are constrained to acknowledge there is an infinite space between what we may know and what we do not know and from the highest Heavens unto the very Center of the Earth humane Reason finds a Hundred Abysses wherein it loses its self Why do you think added Chrysantes that Men are inclin'd to adore Beasts and sometimes Stones rather than adore nothing 'T is only because they are naturally inclin'd to believe a Godhead But People of good sense agree that visible and terrestrial Objects cannot be truly the Objects of Worship Their Contests and their Diversities upon all these Objects shew that not one of all those Objects we see is truly and only adorable because if it was once shewn clearly and visibly it would certainly invite the Adoration of all the Earth And when I have told you the true Persians only adore the Sun I have told you at the same time we look upon it as the Soul of the World which is sensible to us and perswades us by all the Wonders wherewith it is filled This being so it must be allow'd there is a great deal of boldness and even folly to deny a Divinity since there 's no danger in believing there is one and a great deal in not believing there is The sole excellency of the Wit of Man proceeded Chrysantes ought to perswade him there is an Eternal Spirit superiour to his own For in short if there be no Rays but what depart from a Star and from a great Star there must needs be a Source from whence all humane reason does flow and the more that Source is unknown to us the more ought we to adore it Besides have not we in ourselves a proof of the Divinity We know for certain that we think that we reason But we know not very precisely what we do to think and to reason The Memory which is a Treasury of infinite Images which it keeps for us and restores to us when we have occasion for 'em is likewise one of those truths the cause whereof is very secret whatsoever the Science of Conjectures may say thereof Let us then avow there are true things which we know but by halves and it is to be worse than brute Breasts not to consider once in ones life what we are to believe and not believe and not to take the surest course But tho a Man should have understood all this said Agathyrsis would he apprehend very clearly that the God-ship you speak of concerns it self in the things here below and that after Death there are Punishments or Rewards Assoon as we agree reply'd Chrysantes there is an Almighty Divinity we ought to agree in all the rest For what appearance is there that this order so exactly kept in the construction of the World in general which can only be the effect of a Deity should be abandoned in the parts of its composition And what likelihood would there be too that the Universal Opinion of a second Life which is established amongst all People had no real foundation For in short there are some particular Men who do not believe what we ought to believe yet no whole Nation and so 't is no rule nor has any force against what I say It must likewise be granted that this intelligent Being which governs the World and takes care thereof ought to be at the same time just and not permit those Profligate Wretches who despise him and think only of doing mischief to Men should always be more happy than the good People who adore him and think only of doing good to others Therefore methinks 't is pretty easie to conclude a future life wherein Vice it punished and Vertue rewarded I also imagine said Eliorante whose Wi●… has much Solidity that we may boldly say there is no Opinion so universal for great things as that of a Divinity Now for example For the Government of People the Sentiments are very different There are Nations who elect Kings Others will have their Monarchy Hereditary Others will have no Kings at all and cannot resolve to obey one Man Those who are for Re-publicks differ in the Model of 'em some are desirous the Multitude should have the Sovereign Power Others to have a Counsel compos'd of the Wisest to rule 'em but as for a Deity all People are for it and acknowledge by this universal desire that there is really such a Being for 't is not natural to all Men to desire and believe a thing impossible otherwise Reason would be Folly No no interrupted Noromata it is not to be doubted but that there is a Divinity and be it what it will it governs the World and by a consequence which seems to me infallible there is a Second Life wherein Vice is punished and Vertue recompensed You have so much interest it should be so lovely Noromata resum'd Agathirsis that you ought to fear you are not prejudic'd But as for me whom you take for an Epicurean I ought not to have the same Confidence On the contrary reply'd Noromata I have told you from the beginning that your manners being so innocent as they are you ought not to take your repose in Sensuality Ah! Madam reply'd Chrysantes that is not the Course to find it The Libertines are not at case but when their thoughts only glance upon what they are and what they may be and it is absolutely impossible to be long in a sedate belief that there is no Divinity nor Second Life The most dissolute Libertines not tell all their doubts and disquiets The Passions and Disorders of their Lives do blind and hurry 'em away But notwithstanding all this there are some Moments wherein they see into the truth and assoon as they are in doubt they are miserable and know no more to whom to have recourse For my part said Noromata I am so much an Enemy to Nothing that this Antipathy I have to it is a kind of proof I shall never fall into it Is there any thing more just added she than to adore that Deity tho never so unknown to us if there was no Religion among Men there would be no Vertue in the World and the most savage and cruel Beasts would be less so than Men. And indeed added Noromata an implous person sometimes corrupts a whole great Court or City Judge then what it would be if all this great Nation was in such a Dissolution But Heaven has not permitted it to be so and will never
the other For that a Lover whose Love diminishes does not think himself so obliged as he is to the person he is beloved by But as for Friends we chuse them we are willing they should oblige us we engage them so to do we willingly receive their Services we are not forced thereto either by Laws or an irregular Passion And by consequence Nature Reason Justice Vertue and Glory require that we should always return benefits for benefits and that when we can do so we should at least never forget the Obligation we have to a Friend but proclaim it even with pleasure For my part I do not well apprehend how there can be ungrateful Friends nor how there can be people who can suffer those that are so What surety can there be in the heart of a man who fails his Friend and fails himself By what Sentiment can he be retained who despises Friendship Justice and Glory and makes it likewise be confessed that he is as imprudent as he is false For one that is ungrateful ruines his own Reputation among all persons of Honour and does himself thereby more mischief than he does others though perhaps he is not sensible of it 'T would not be impossible for a man to be ungrateful to his Prince and yet full of acknowledgement to his Friend and his Mistriss And the like of all the other persons we have spoken of But for one ungrateful in Friendship I maintain he may be ungrateful to his King to his Parents to his Children to his Wife and to his Mistriss For Friendship is a thing so sacred that who despises it is capable of despising all things Thus I think I have more reason on my side in this case than Amilcar You have at least a great deal of Wit resumed Herminius And I must confess too that all you say to the advantage of Friendship is admirably well said and it is so much the more so in that it serves to prove that the most horrible of all Ingratitudes is Ingratitude in Love But before that is done I declare there is no Ingratitude excusable and every ungrateful person is worthy of Hatred and Contempt And truly the business is not to examine what 't is we love or hate for to know if we love or if we ought to have acknowledgement For assoon as we have received a good turn we are indispensably obliged not only to be acknowledging for it to our Friends but even to our Enemies when we accept a good Office from them Nay and for ought I know we are obliged to be full of acknowledgement when we even refuse the Services they are willing to do us The word Acknowledgement does so well shew the necessary obligation of the person who receives a favour from any other that none can be ignorant of it And indeed to acknowledge a good office is to be always in a readiness to do all that has been done for us And whoever does not find in his Heart a continual desire of doing for others what has been done to serve him is without doubt a concealed ungrateful man who will discover himself on the first occasion he shall have to serve those by whom he has been served But to come to the particular designe I have of making appear that Ingratitude in Love is the most horrible of all I have no need of many words For though there cannot be any small Ingratitude it is however certain that 't is more or less great according as the party has been more or less obliged For if a man owes his life to a friend he is more obliged than if he was onely indebted to him for his Fortune and will be still more ungrateful than if he were less his Debtor This being so can the Question in hand be brought into doubt And is there any thing that can enter into comparison with Love A man serves his King his Parents his Master his Friend and a Husband and Wife one another But a Lover gives himself to his Mistress and a Mistress to her Lover Nothing but Love a one of two Hearts can make one I know very well that Friendship may boast of this as well as Love but it b●…atis of it without reason Two Friends I say two intimate Friends may each have a Mistress who will divide them or at the least will render their Friendship less sensible since it will be no longer their greatest pleasure But for Heroick Love though it strongly unites two persons whose Hearts are tender and Minds rational I defie all the power of Friendship to divide them It is then methinks very easie to conclude that since Love is an Union incomparably more strong and more perfect than Friendship and nothing can be compared to the Obligation we have to a person who gives his Heart entirely up There is no blacker Ingratitude than that of a Lover for a Mistress or a Mistress for a Lover Besides when I speak of Love I do not mean those frivolous and criminal Amours which bear a name they do not merit For they who love one another after that manner onely give one another the time which they equally lose in trifling it away They engage in nothing but to divert themselves as well as they can as long as they shall have the fancy of seeing and loving one another But I mean a certain ardent and sincere love grounded upon Esteem and Virtue wherein there is made a true exchange of Hearts wherein the Wills are mingled and which seem as if they were to last eternally For as there is nothing more precious in the world than an affection of that nature whosoever is capable of Ingratitude after having received one of that sort is the most perfidious and the basest of all the Ungrateful Nevertheless there is a certain self-interessed Spirit which almost obliges all men to despise more an ungrateful person that shall forget a good office which has been done him in order to his Fortune than one ungrateful in Love who shall forget all the marks of tenderness he has received However to speak rationally there is nothing more unjust nor even more Inhumane than to be capable of Ingratitude for a person who in giving his Heart has given all he can give For in Love we ought not to reckon the Services we receive as we reckon them in Friendship because two persons loving perfectly it must be supposed that they are capable of doing for one another all that Virtue allows of even to the losing their Lives Thus from that time they love one another they owe all the good offices that love can cause to be rendred and they ought to keep an account of them as Services already done since they need no more than the occasion which depends●… only on Fortune But to hear you speak resum'd AEmilius coldly it seems that acknowledgement in Love does only regard happy Lovers I should be very glad this were so said Plotina laughing and
If I had known it my self replied he agreeably with a smile I should have spoke it before now But to tell you sincerely I know it not yet my self For as I am sufficiently sensible of Love I would willingly at least retain that Passion But besides as I am naturally very lazy methinks I should not be over-forry though no Passions were in the World because I imagine that if there were none at all Mankind would be continually in a certain languishment of Spirit and a pleasant kind of Laziness that would have something altogether charming Ah! as for Laziness you speak the truth resum'd Amilcar For true it is if there were no Passions all well-bred people would have nothing to do And indeed pursued he if there was no Ambition we see a hundred thousand people come and go through the world who would do nothing of what they do and would onely Enter Rest a while and then Return If a Lover was deprived of the Passion which poffesses him he would become very Idle If Kings were without that Ambition which makes 'em desire to surpass all their Equals they would never be distinguished by themselvs but onely by their rank And the Brave having no passion for Glory would remain content to be jumbled among the Base and Esseminate without having any thing to employ themselves in I also believe that the Fields would not be cultivated neither Cities nor Houses would be built and Mankind would remain scattered up and down the Country without seeking any other Lodging than that of Grotto's which Nature has made And for the greatest part of Ladies if there were no Passions in the World I know not what they would do For as they are the weakest if their Beauty did not produce Love in the Hearts of men and if it did not serve them instead of Force I should rather chuse I fancy to be a pretty Fly than a pretty Woman For they would certainly not onely be Slaves but would also be in a very irksome Idleness since they would not know what to do all the time they spend in decking themselves And truly you need but see a fair Lady in a place where she thinks no body will come to believe that if the Ladies knew they could never give Love they would not take the pains to be half a day doing a thing which must necessarily be undone every Evening I except however from this rule a small number of Ladies as those who are here whos 's Wi and Virtue raise them above all men But to return to the Passions judge ye if it would not be a great pity if there were none since then all the Ladies would be less amiable and would not be beloved But if they were not beloved rejoyn'd Arontius agreeably neither would they be hated since seldom any thing but Love makes them hated by those who are so unjust as to do so For commonly misused Lovers or Jealous Husbands are the onely persons who have an aversion to Ladies True resum'd Amilcar they would not be hated But if they were not beloved they would think the time strangely tedious And there are very few Women I am sure who have Youth and Beauty but would rather chuse to be hated by a hundred unjust Lovers and an hundred Jealous Husbands provided they were beloved than not to be hated by whomsoever it was upon condition of not being beloved by any body and of not loving any thing Let us not complain then of the Passions since they alone afford all the Occupations and Pleasures of Mankind Yet 't is a very difficult thing resumed Artemidorus to overcome them That 's true resumed Amilcar with his usual sweetness but since 't is so difficult do not struggle with them abandon your self to 'em and instead of amusing your self with endeavours to conquer them seek rather to satisfie 'em and then they will not so much torment you For my part added he I am not at all amazed that the Passions tyrannize over the Hearts of men for we do nothing else than preach up this Doctrine that we must struggle with 'em and subject them We find it written in Verse and in Prose The Philosophers have it the Wise men order it Fathers teach it their Children Husbands their Wives and Mothers their Daughters Insomuch as those poor Passions seeing they have so many Enemies make a great effort that they may not sink under them and to reign in all Hearts from which endeavours are used to banish 'em with a world of injustice And truly 't is the place of their birth they cannot subsist elsewhere They give infinite Pleasures to those who seek to satisfie 'em they hardly ever do any mischief but to those who would destroy them For my part resumed Zenocrates they never torment me after that manner For as I am perswaded there would be too much trouble to vanquish them I love rather to submit my self to ' em Thus my Reason and my Passions are never at War together for when my Passions are stronger than my Reason my Reason subjects it self to them And when my Reason is more powerful than my Passions it flatters 'em without undertaking to destroy ' em You so little understand what the great Passions are replied Arontius smiling that it does not belong to you to speak upon this Subject But if you had had any violent or obstinate Love or if your own Desires had made you suffer a thousand punishments and even if hope it self had given you a thousand disquiets you might be allowed to speak of the force of Passion For when we have once tried one of them we may easily imagine the Tyranny of all the rest True it is said then Orontes that who knows all the force of Love may easily comprehend that of Ambition and all the other Passions Yet I am perswaded replied Artemidorus we can never judge equitably of other peoples Passions and we ought never to judge but of our own For though every where they be equally Passions and Love is Love in Greece as well as in Italy 't is however true that it has different operations in the Hearts of all Mankind And the diversity of Temperament does likewise produce many different effects of one and the same Passion For Love in Tarquin's Heart made him commit a thousand Crimes And the same thing in the Heart of Aruntius makes him perform a thousand Heroick Actions Very true resumed Thrasylus but I still maintain that in what Heart soever the Passions reign they give that person trouble enough to satisfie them And I still maintain on the contrary resumed Amilcar that without the Passions we should not be happy If you take away all Passions said Aruntius Indifference must of necessity reign in all Hearts and by consequence there can be no more Heroes I do not speak pursued he of the Indifference which the fair Cleocrita is reproached with because a person may neither have a tender Heart nor Love
a Rallery that might be returned upon us There is likewise a kind of baseness in all that is done out of a meer revengeful Spirit I also think it to be very dangerous to rally ones Master or Mistress That it is unbecoming to rally such as are much below us That a well-bred man ought to keep great measures with Ladies and a Lady must not be too hasty in rallying Men for fear of meeting with some one who would not sufficiently respect her In short said Melinta I fancy after the rate you talk you will not so much as allow the rallying ones self I assure you replied Euridamia though it be the most innocent Rallery that can be made if it is not done with great judgement 't is not over-diverting And 't is certainly much more difficult to speak agreeably of ones self than of others without it be on certain occasions wherein rallying ones self first does prevent the Rallery of others for it is the means of disarming them Moreover added she 't is my sense that we are never to rally people who have no Merit because Rallery at such times has hardly ever any grace Neither ought we to rally those who are deserving seeing it would be a great piece of injustice to fix upon a slight fault to the prejudice of a thousand good Qualities It being certain that Rallery does often retort upon the person who makes it I find for this reason we ought to consider well when we rally the place where we are and before whom we speak I likewise boldly maintain we ought not to rally Crimes because we ought to detest them nor Misfortunes because we ought to pity 'em Nor imperfections of the Body which those who have 'em cannot get rid of nor Old Age since it is an inevitable mischief when one does not die young nor Strangers as Strangers since a Persian for example can no more hinder his being a Persian than you your being a French Woman At least added she if you would rally any one let it be in speaking to the Party himself and never say things that can really displease and onely such as do meerly something animate the Conversation For in that case I confess it may be allowable to make War upon ones best Friends But Melinta there are few people who know how to rally either agreeably or innocently And truly at this I do not at all wonder For Birth must give this Talent it being certain that Art cannot give it in the least And whosoever would force his Nature has such ill success in diverting others that he affords ample matter of rallying upon himself while he imagines he is lashing and scattering his Wit upon others 'T is not so with all the other agreeable Qualities of the Mind pursued she since none but may be acquired by study But as for this it must be given by Nature and managed by Judgement And truly 't is not sufficient to have pleasant thoughts there must be I know not what turn in the Expression which must render them perfectly agreeable The Air too of the Countenance and the Tone of the Voice and the whole Person in general must contribute to the rendring pleasant what of it self is not sometimes diverting I should never have believed said then Antigenes that so serious a person as Euridamia could have spoke so well of a thing she never does On the contrary replied she 't is because I do not rally that I ought to be believed in matter of Rallery for as I have no interest therein I speak of it without Passion And I examine all the different Ralleries of those persons I am acquainted withal without doing any one injustice But to tell you the truth except one of my Friends who has an admirable delicacy of Wit and a gallant gentile Malice in the Imagination which is taking on all occasions I know not one besides Melinta in whom I pardon Rallery True it is said I then nothing is more insupportable than that sort of people who without thinking on 't do horribly slander one in onely thinking to rally and believe that because they speak of others Imperfections and that grosly too it is a Rallery Persons there are of another stamp said Polemon who torment me to death when I meet with 'em For they make all their mirth consist in a Popular and low way of speaking which onely fills the Imagination with disagreeable things and makes their Discourse consist in all that is said by the coarsest sort of People and which shews that to learn all they say they must of necessity have spent the greatest part of their Lives in the worst Company upon Earth Ha! Polemon cried Melinta you please me extreamly in hating those sort of People you speak of And though I defend Rallery in general I abandon almost all Jesting if I may be allowed to speak in that manner and this in particular For I would have Rallery be Gallant and Gentile and Malicious But I would have it nice and modest too neither to wound the Ears nor the Imagination and that it never make any one blush for vexation And truly added she the Rallery of a well-bred Man ought not to be of any p●…ofession but onely of a Gentleman For there is a Rallery of the Mobile the Citizen the Army the Inns of Court the University the Country and there is also one of the Court which is almost ever the best But if the Court-Rallery be such as I mean it you shall not distinguish any other by it and 't is with that as with the Accent which to have exact and Noble is to have none at all What Melinta says is admirable resumed Euridamia But there are still another sort of Rallyers I am tormented with when ever I meet with 'em in regard they have got a fancy that they ought to rally upon all Insomuch that as they are always wracking their Brains to find out what they seek for they say a thousand nauseous things for one that is divertting Thus it happens that for three or four supportable Ralleries which they shall have said in all their Lives those they converse with must of necessity hear a hundred thousand that are ill For my part adjoyned I sometimes I meet with a man who mortifies mo●… extreamly with continual Repetitions of what he thinks he has said pleasantly and I may swear to you that I have heard him tell one Rallery a hundred times I am also strangely afraid added Don Alvarez of those tellers of silly Stories who laugh at 'em first themselves and would laugh at them all alone if they told them to no others than me since in my opinion I know nothing more incommodious than a certain Flat and Insipid Rallery which is proper for nothing For when those who speak seem to have a design to be merry and are not so nothing is more tiresom Those great makers of long pleasant Recitals rejoyn'd I who say a
the Character of some great Foreigner Don Alvarez and Clearchus excused ' emselves after so pleasant a manner that Clarice could almost have beer displeased and not understood Rallery insomuch as Antigenes taking up the Discourse after that the Company had admired this fine Answer I perceive said Antigenes smiling it is for me to do the honours of my House but happily I can do them without pain For since Melinta will su●…er a Character provided it be of some person elevated in Rank and Desert and Clarice will onely abide things a little remote from us as to Time and Place I have wherewith to satisfie 'em both in speaking to you of the Prince whose excellent and judicious Sentiment upon Rallery you have newly admired The same Consul of Alexandria whom I spoke to you of not long since and who sent me the King's Panegyrick translated into Arabick by the Patriarch of Mount Libanus has added them to the French Traduction of an Arabick Manuscript which is pretended to be a remnant of those Writings which the Egyptian Priests kept for their Kings 'T is from thence I have taken this saying and according to the calculation of the Manuscripts to which I refer my self the Prince in question lived about Fifteen thousand six hundred sixty five years ago All the Company fell a laughing at so old a date But Antigenes rejoyned coldly Do not laugh at this for Manuscripts and Printed Books too do sometimes lye But in truth the most ancient Greek Historian we have and he who is called the Father of History reckons Fifteen thousand years from their Hercules to Amasis Now by our Manuscripts this Prince lived about Thirteen thousand four hundred years before Amasis And by the most exact Chronologie there are from Amasis unto us above Two thousand and fifty years Insomuch as joyning this time with Thirteen thousandthree hundred years above Amasis it comes to about the number of years I have told you Being well understood that a Calculation of this nature Five or six hundred years more or less are no great thing And that when one has disputed five or six hours together you will find that it was full as good to know nothing at all thereof You see said Melinta Antiquity well setled even at such a distance I fancy Clarice will be satisfied with it But have a care that I be so with this so remote a King For if he had done nothing but built the Pyramids which have been so much talked of I could easily content my self without knowing any thing more of him And for my part said Clarice before you go any further I would willingly know his Name and also if that Manuscript gives some account of his Person I should be very glad you would begin with it for this sort of Pictures make the Idea of all the rest the more pleasing and remains likewise more fix'd in the mind I shall tell you answered Amigenes all I know thereof He was called Sefoftris the Great in distinction from that other Sesostris that is known in our Greck and Latine Historians who was a mighty Prince but as our Arabian pretends much below this former Sesostris the Great So that they gave him says he the name of Sesostris onely by reason he had some light resemblance of the Virtues of the former Sesostris And this former by all that is said of him is so perfect that it may be suspected whether it be not a meer Idea of a Prince rather than a real one as some have said of Xenophon's Cyrus This is very promising said Clarice but how was he shap'd The Book does not onely say replied Antigenes he was the handsomest man in his Kingdom but it addes That he had never any Statue or Picture but it came short of him That if a Stranger had arrived in his Court and found him disguised and travestied in the Croud of his Courtiers he would not have failed to have distinguish'd him by I know not what air of a Master which told all the World 't was he that was King That this Air was not however a forc'd and conceited Gravity in not Frowning as is that of most part of the Eastern Kings who are hardly to be distinguished from their Statues when they do so much as shew themselves in publick That on the contrary there was seen in him and his ways all the liberty of a perfect Genleman and all the Dignity and Authority of a great Prince And that his particular Character when he was either amongst his Officers or amongst Ladies on with those he made use of and to whom he gave his Orders in so many different manners was I know not what Heroick Familiarity mingled with so much Grandeur that people could less forb●…ar Reverencing than Loving him 'T is well for us said Melinta this Prince lived Fifteen thousand years ago for if he was still alive we should find it very difficult for us to forbear going to see him though we were to travel as much as Don Alvarez And who knows but that we should have also some desire of becoming his Subjects But I apprehend said Clarice this Greatness it self which appears in his least Actions came from that he had done great ones which prepossessing peoples Minds made them find every thing great in him That 's true said Antigenes but particularly from a certain greatness of Soul and an extent of Heart and Spirit almost without bounds which equally embraced and contained all that can make a King esteemed and admired This Manuscript remarks how though he had merited several times the name of a Conquerour and by his inclination would have lov'd it perhaps better than any oth●… the Publick chose rather to call him Great because there have been very Famous Conquerours very low in other things but he was great in all The AEgyptians said for many years after his Reign that their Nation held from him all that had placed it above others and that the Times were good or bad according as the Princes deviated from or approached his Conduct That he had re-established the Authority of the Royal Government before staggered causing Justice to reign Changing the manners of his Subjects reforming the Laws redressing and maintaining Religion regulating the Revenues nourishing and promoting Sciences and Arts. That on the other side he had changed the whole method of making War and taught his Successors what all his Predecessors had been ignorant of in that Art which is the mystery of all others His Wisdom and Foresight were equal to his Prudence and Valour And those who did not see the first Springs of 'em took for unheard-of happiness and for Miracles of a blind Fortune the surprizing Effects of all these Qualities joyned together in so eminent a degree Places before impregnable were taken almost assoon as attacked The Euphrates and Tygris were passed like Brooks The desolation of War fell onely upon the Enemy Abundance marched with his Armies The years had