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A29739 Two conferences between some of those that are called Separatists & Independents, concerning their different tenents one whereof, was appointed with Mr. Burton and a number of his church, and the other with Mr. John Goodwin and some of his church ... / now published by D.B. ... Brown, David, fl. 1650-1652.; Chidley, Samuel.; Burton, Mr.; Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665. 1650 (1650) Wing B5016; ESTC R20226 18,640 27

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a diabolicall uncleannesse upon the same God declares then that they are uncleane and calleth them sin and commandeth them to be pulled down and so we distinguish not in the first place but they make the places to be distinct diabolically by their dedication of those places to Idols and so the distinction is theirs not ours God himself made all things good at the first and made no Devill but made Angels and they made themselves Devills so he made all things good and made no Temple of Idolls or Temple of Devills so concerning men he professeth that he desireth not the death of a sixner and why will ye die O House of Israel to shew them that their damnation is of themselves and yet elsewhere he sheweth in respect of the evill of punishment there is no evill in the City but he doth it but they bring it upon themselves in the first place Therefore when they have made Idols or Idols Temples God owneth them not but in his just judgement punisheth them and commands them to be demolished and we would have them to be destroyed according to Gods Commands and the example of King Josiah 2. Chron. 34. and other holymen of God and therefore we are farre from upholding them yet hold them the Temples of Devills till they are pulled down It s impossible said Mr. Goodwin to prove that all the Temples in the Land are dedicated to Idolls but what if they were is it unlawfull to worship in them therefore 2. These Steeple-houses here were not dedicated to Devills but some to Christ others of them are dedicated to God himself even to the Trinity and most of them are dedicated to Saints c. 3. Christ came into the World to take away the distinction between places and places and to make all places alike and to deny this tendeth to deny that Christ Jesus is come into the world and to establish Jewishme 4. When he came into the world he dissolved the uncleannes which God had made and put upon the Creatures how much more then the uncleannesse which men had put on those places of theirs built of stone 5. By the same grounds we may refuse to worship God in any part of the land suppose this whole Kingdom be dedicated to St. George as France to St. Dennis all the houses dedicated all over the Kingdom as once its said to be wholly dedicated to St. George must we not worship God in the Kingdom because of that 6. In John the 4. its clear that Jesus Christ speaking to the woman of Samaria sheweth that all places are now alike and as there is no place unto which the worship of God is bound so there is no place though an Idolls Temple but that men may lawfully worship and serve God in for when the woman questioned saying v. 20. Our Fathers worshipped in this Mountain and ye say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship 21. Jesus said unto the woman believe me the houre cometh when ye shall neither in this Mountain nor yet at Jerusalem Worship the Father As if he should say the houre is coming that all places shall be left free for to worship in both this mountain and all others not one place above another but all alike no place more holy no place more unholy though in the Mountain of Samaria where was an Idolls Temple and so takes away the distinction of places which was under the Law And the reason why the Idolls Temples were prohibited under the Law was because God had branded them then 7. Upon the same ground that we must not worship in these places because dedicated by Idolaters it is not lawful for men to worship in their houses because Idolatry hath been committed theer Unto all which Mr. Chidley made answer as followeth 1. It is not impossible to prove these Temples in the Land which the Idolators frequent to be dedicated to Idolls And the way to try them is as a Thief or Murderer is tryed when he is arraigned before the Judge if he confesse it with his own mouth he is out of his own mouth condemned even so if the founders of these places have confessed out of their own mouthes that they have dedicated them to such uses as the Records of the Realm testifie the said places are condemned and ought to be executed but for these things I referre unto the records of the Realme and unto those plain and manifest proofes openly known formerly 2. Whereas it s alledged that they were not dedicated unto Devills I say Temples dedicated to Idolls are dedicated to Devils and so the Apostle Paul speaketh of the Idolls Sacrifices when he saith to the Corinthians 1 Cor. 10. 20. That the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to Devills and not to God and I would not that they should have fellowship with Devills The Scripture calleth Idolls by the name of Devills so the two calves which Jeroboam set up at Dan and Bethel were called Devills for in setting up and worshipping Idolls men set up and worship Devills therefore the Temples of Idolls are the Temples of Devills and not the Temples of God no more are these And whereas it is said some are dedicated to Christ what is their Christ their Christ is not he that standeth at the right hand of God but it is a peece of bread which they fall down and worship calling it their God and eat it when they have done O ridiculous horrible impiety worse then Jeroboams and they do not say it s a figure of the body of Christ and the wine a figure of the blood of Christ but say they it is really the Body and Blood of Christ and to this Christ do they dedicate their Temples which they call Christs Chruch And so their Trinity is not the eternall God the Father Son and Holy Spirit but their Trinity which they worship is the picture painted upon a wall of an old man sitting in that which they picture for heaven and there is the Picture of what they call the Son and the Holy Ghost they have also painted out in the likenesse of a Dove this is their Trinity which they fall down and worship and dedicate their Temples unto And admit that most of them were dedicated to Saints and Angels it is to be considered whether it be not Idolatry to dedicate any Places to Saints or Angels but what are your Saints or Angels which they dedicate their Temples unto new Images which they make of them that are no more like unto them then my Pictur is like Mr. Goodwins and they fall down before these Images saying St. Peter save me St. Paul save me c. These their impieties far exceed the Abominations of the Heathens and so are their Idols Temples abominable places and ought not to be worshipped in of the Saints Besides divers Temples in England are builded and dedicated to the Heathen Gods as well as these are to the Christian