acts in you and your pride covetousness and conformities to the world for that Spirit which is infallible leads out of the world and fashions of it and conforms to Christ and they who judge by that Spirit deny the wisdom and learning of the world or to enrich themselves by it The sixteenth Position They cry down baptism with water and the Lords Supper as being but types and shadows ceasing upon the appearance of Christ in them And in your Reply you quarrel that I should say Paul knew what he said when he said Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach 1 Cor. 1. 17. and you say This is to heap sin upon Peter and the rest of the Apostles but that Paul by speaking the truth or I by speaking it after him doth thereby heap sin upon Peter is a strange inference but it is like the rest for there is no truth that I speak but you can inferre a slander from it and how many times in your book have you slandered me for speaking plain Scripture but it is to manifest you to be what you are And whereas you say we cry down baptisme and the Lords Supper It is false for the baptism of John we own which is with water and the baptism of Christ with the holy Ghost and fire we own and the Supper of the Lord we own and our saith feeds upon him and the eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood is our life John 6. 53 54. and we deny your faith which you say is nourished by bread and wine which is carnal and your sprinkling of Infants we deny which you say You can clear up to be an Ordinance of Christ but doth not nor can do it The seventeenth Position That there is no mediate call of the Ministery And you say I contradict my self because I say That the ordaining of Elders by the direction of the Spirit of God was not by man which I again affirm That it was not by man nor of man nor any created power but by the Spirit of God in the Apostles which did impower them with the gift of the holy Ghost to them who were ordained and this was not of man but of God And whereas you would prove your mediate call from this it will not serve your turn who are either called by the cursed Bishops or by earthly Magistrates or else you call one another by your own wills but no appointment of God nor gift of the holy Ghost is witnessed amongst you And whereas you deny that the late commission did ever pretend to put any in the Office of a Minister here all the North may witness against you that you care not what you say to excuse your selves and accuse others though never so false Did not you and those that were in commission call them before you and examined and appointed whom you would and denied whom you would at will and pleasure and your partiality in it the North can witness and now you deny it be ashamed and confounded before all men you shameless creatures this you may call railing as you do the rest where you are told of your deceit And for your fifty five proofs you tell of which you say are not all answered I answer Those that might seem to make for your purpose are answered and for many other you bring they are so full against the end for which you alledge them that they may answer themselves before all that know any thing of Scriptures and to their judgement I leave them and shall not trouble my self or others with things to so little purpose And for your sending and proving your false accusations under hand and seal as you call it here you shew what Spirit acts in you who pursue such unjust things with such eagerness which none of the Saints of God ever did but your reward shall be as your work is and time shall clear the truth when you have vented your envie Now to that you call our Principles And first Not to salute any And here you accuse us to deny high-way salutes and when you have done you say High-way salutes is our known practise but how doth this agree honesty would never have accused us to deny what is our known practice unless you could have proved that we had denied to salute any as you falsly accuse us for the salutation of the Saints we own and practice and deny your heathenish customes that are used without the fear of God And whereas you bring the practice of some in the old Testament to overturn the Commands of Christ in the new I answer No contrary practice of any though the best of Saints can be a ground for me to break the Command of Christ neither had they whom you instance as Jacob and Abigal any command for what they did to bow down or fall to the ground but rather did it out of fear and weakness Now if any had alledged these to those whom Christ sent out had that been a ground for them to have broken Christs Command to follow their practice without command and it is the same now Christ who hath sent us forth hath commanded us to deny your vain customs and not to salute any by the way and this we witness and practice whatever they did in the old time and here we leave you who are in the world to your traditions of the world follow Christ so witness against all the vanities out of which we are called And for that place in 2 Joh. 10. which you would alledge to keep up the worlds customes which is clear against you for the Apostle there commands Not to bid God speed to any transgressor that doth not abide in the doctrine of Christ and who hath not the Father and the Son for if they bade God speed to any of them they were partakers of their evil deeds Now they who fear God had need take heed whom they bid God speed to for few are found who have in them the Father and the Son and are no transgressors and now how this makes for your God speed to all any that fear God may see and be warned of your deceit lest they partake of other mens evil deeds And so it 's plain the Saints were forbidden to salute any but Saints though you call it Publican-like And whereas you say in Mat. 5. 37. is a command to salute all I answer If that was so as you speak A general command to salute all then doth Christ contradict himself when he commands Not to salute any by the way and so you will make Christ yea nay but it is plain that Christ is there exhorting to love and not to salutation wherein he would have them to exceed the Heathen who shewed their partiality in saluting their friends onely which was a token of their love to be partial but if this were a Command of Christ To salute all and binding to them who had received a command to the
and they want nothing And as for those that do not work that they should not eat and those who live disorderly not working at all 1 Thess 3. 10. 11. how are you not ashamed to take these Scriptures into your mouthes when all that know you may witness this against you that no sort of people in the Nation lives like you for idleness like beasts and swine for 1. Your families are provided for by the sweat of other mens brows 2. You are those that walk disorderly not working at all and therefore ought not to eat 3. And for abiding in our callings we are in them and there abide with God but you are crept in and are not called of God by your own confession who never heard his voice And whereas you make an Objection lest we should say that the Apostles left their callings and followed Christ and you say 'T is true the Messiah had his disciples following him but Paul after Christs ascension left a standing rule say you for all to abide in their callings As if when Christ should ever call out any more they should not obey him as though Paul had left a standing rule to the contrary And thus you bring Paul to oppose the commands of Christ and one Scripture to cross another and yet would not be counted wresters of Scriptures nor opposers of Christ But you are found out and can no longer be hid And whereas you tell of them who were called forth having an immediate call and to pub like work in the Ministery herein I say silence flesh who knows nothing of that immediate call to that publike work but denies it And whereas you tell of Paul reproving Christians for leaving their callings I answer Did Paul reprove them for leaving all and coming forth at the commands of Christ O with what subtilty do you go about here to make people believe that Christ should never call out any more not they obey And whereas you tell that a man may forsake the world and yet enjoy his possessions in it I answer Such a forsaking of the world pleaseth you well and so do you forsake the world when you leave one Parsonage to go to a greater Living and this is all the forsaking of the world that you know or can judge of But did ever any that Christ called forth to be Ministers forsake the world so but they left all at his command And whereas you tell of using this world as not abusing it and many such-like words which you know nothing of I answer When you come to live in what you speak and so to use this world you will cease to compel your hearers to pay you Tythes or Money for your hours talk or one to pull out another for greater Livings for he who spoke those words did no such things and till you come to live that life you have nought to do with those words And whereas you say you spoke not a sillable of the pride and lusts of the world in your Epistle but it is foisted in by James Nayler I answer Doth not he that forsakes the world forsake the pride and lusts of it which you live in and seem to speak evil of them that do forsake the world as is plain in your book and then what wrong have I done you for I do not charge you with the words but with the thing And now for those things you have set down as trivial observances they are these our not saluting which we witness a command to the contrary our not putting off the hat before the Magistrate wherein we have the example of Christ and all the Apostles and Saints and are plainly forbidden to have the faith of Christ in respect of persons and our Thouing every one which is the Scriptures language and none of the holy men of God ever used any other to a particular and our not calling men Masters which is the command of Christ in plain words Now you that call your selves Ministers and call the commands of Christ trivial observances I charge you in the presence of the living God to be in the doctrine of devils and there are seen by all the children of the light and makes it plainly appear how little you regard the language of the Scriptures given out by the Spirit of God or the practice of the Saints who were guided by the same Spirit or the express commands of Jesus Christ but stand up to maintain the customs of the world against all these and here you plainly appear to whom you belong for you who are guided by the spirit of the world stand up to maintain the customs of the world and they that are guided by the Spirit of God are led into the same way words worship and obedience that those walked in who were guided by the same Spirit before them and none can live in the kingdom of Christ and conform to the customs of the world neither doth the Apostle speak of any of these when he saith Touch not taste not handle not as you would make people believe but of your carnal Ordinances And whereas you say we place Holiness and Religion in these things It is false our holiness is in Christ but these things we cannot neglect being the commands of Christ to us and practice of the Saints in Scripture And whereas you say we will not submit to Christs righteousness I charge you to be lyers and slanderers and that we also deny many other truths with full opposition to Gospel Ordinances Prayer Baptism Supper Church-Government and Ministery which is all false and a lying slander for the righteousness of Christ we own and in him alone are we made the righteousness of God 1 Cor. 5. 21. But your righteousness which live in sin and talk of righteousness without you and are not made conformable to Christ but are conformable to the world that righteousness we deny And Christ the Gospel-Ordinance we own and deny your carnal Ordinances and set Forms And Prayer we own which is with the Spirit and as the Spirit helps our infirmities so we ask and receive of the Father and deny the vain bablings of you Heathen and you that under pretence make long prayers And the Supper of the Lord we own which is spiritual and deny your carnal Sacrament for which there is no Scripture and your mixt multitudes The Baptism of Christ we own and are baptized by one Spirit into one body And the Holy Ghost and the fire we own and do witness but deny your sprinckling of Infants for which there is no Scripture Church-government we own and Jesus Christ the head and governour of his Church to whom we submit but deny your Classes Assemblies and Masterships by which you rule and govern in your own wils the Ministers we own which is of Iesus Christ and immediate call to it and deny all whose call is mediate and are made ministers by the will of man and here I charge you in
Position That the Scriptures are not the word of God but a Declaration of the condition of them that spoke them forth And in your Reply you alledge many Scriptures but not one that speaks of a written word or that the letter is the word but that it is a Declaration is plain as Luk. 1. 1. 1. Joh. 1. 3. and divers other places where they that had the word in them declared it in writings to others Gal. 1. 16. And whereas you say The seed is the word it 's true but that seed is not the letter nor can any sow that seed but where Christ is revealed in them And you argue carnally and say Can the devil take Christ out of their hearts I answer Where the devil is received in there Christ departs and in that sense may be said to be taken away but if you minde the words that follow Lest they should believe and be saved it will appear to be the seed of Christ for in what else could they be believe to salvation but in Christ and this seed is not the letter as you would prove it to be and for that place 1 Thess 2. 13. where it is said That which the Saints heard of the Apostles was not the words of man I answer It 's true and that word was Christ the word of faith as is plain Rom. 10. 6 7 8. neither can you prove that ever the Apostles preached any other word but Christ Gal. 1. And whereas you say there are two words of God an essential and a declarative word which is your own language but the Scripture speaks no such words And whereas you accuse us to destroy the Scriptures Divinity and Authority but is this to destroy their Authority when we say They were spoken forth by the Holy Ghost which was in them that spoke them forth and ye would make people believe the letter to be the foundation of the Saints and hath the Authority over the Soul and here you deny Christ to establish the letter in his stead who is the foundation of Saints and hath the Authority of Souls for they who preached Christ the foundation denied themselves to preach the letter but your ministration is of the letter who knows no other word but what you read in books And this is your foundation you stand on and here it 's tried and by which you get your living in the world and here you deny Christ for the letter is not Christ And whereas you talk of the commands of God but his commands you know not who have them to seek in the letter for his commands is in Spirit and ever was and yet this doth not destroy the Scriptures but witness the same Spirit that gave them forth and that which the Saints spoke was the word of the Lord and not the letter according to their several measures and conditions And whereas you accuse me to say that the words which the Prophets spoke was Christ wherein your deceit appears to all that read my words for I do not say their words were Christ but that Spirit by which they spoke was the Spirit of Christ And this is that which I spoke of which came to the Prophets which you deny to be Christ and therewith the life of Christ and the Apostles you are all judged out of truth and here your deceit and blindeness and slanders are laid open for every spiritual eye to see The fourteenth Position That the Spirits are not to be tried by Scriptures And here because I say that the infallible Spirit which is the original of all Scriptures is the trial of all Spirits from thence you argue that I set the minde and will of the Spirit in opposition to the Spirit which is false for I set the Spirit of God in whom it is in opposition to all deceitful Spirits for so the Apostle bids them who had the Spirit of God try the deceitful Spirits and this was not spoken to them who were guided by the Spirit of the world for such cannot try the Spirits neither with the letter nor without it as I have formerly proved neither did Christ send them to try his Spirit when he bad them Search the Scriptures nor did the Bereans try the Spirit of Christ but searched the words which Paul spoke from those Scriptures that declared of Christ And here by the visible eye they tried visible words but the Spirit of God is invisible and cannot be tried by any but those who have it and are guided by it And you that would make people believe that all that can read the letter can try the Spirit of God would set up carnal judges over the Spirit of God when the Scripture saith The natural man understands not the things of God and you confess the eternal Spirit to be the trier of Spirits though formerly you seemed to deny it but say your question is what the Saints had to try the Spirits by I answer By the same Spirit by which they are sanctified and prove in Scripture where the Saints are commanded to try the Spirits by any other things and here see your confusion for the letter is dead and speaks nothing for the Apostles said They served God in the newness of life and not in the oldness of the letter and if any man read this letter and not by the same Spirit that gave it forth he is not able to judge of it but wrests it as you do for your several ends if any man read it by the same Spirit that gave it forth it is the Spirit that judgeth of the letter and not the letter of the Spirit And whereas you talk of trying the doctrines of men by the Scriptures it is true they that have had the Spirit of God in all ages have made use of the letter against the deceitful doctrines as we do at this day and yet this letter is not the judge of the Spirit of God in them for this were to set the letter above the Spirit And whereas you accuse us to exclude the Scriptures because we say the holy Ghost is the original of them which slander is false for hereby we confess and own the Scripture to be given forth by the holy Ghost And whereas you say the light which a spiritual man hath is a Scripture-light I answer A spiritual mans light is the light of Christ and is infallible and cannot be altered and therefore all that are guided by it are one where there is no disputes nor janglings but you that have your light from what you gather out of the letter are confused amongst your selves adding to it your own meanings for your own ends and do not speak one and the same things but every man according to his imaginations of the letter so he judgeth and so he worshippeth and here are you Teachers of the world divided in your several judgements and your several worships And thus you are putting meaning upon Paul's words where he saith He is
own nor in my own will and wisdome and though you would make the people beleeve it is not answered that so you might glory in your selves and provoke others to glory in you also yet any that is wise may see that what your envy hath cast upon us in your 17. particulars That which we hold and practise is owned and proved by Scripture and that which is false is denied in plainness of speech without deceit but to follow you in your janglings and wrestings of Scripture wherein you bring one Scripture to cross another as is plain in your Book and so walke unprofitably was not my way but rather to edification for your confusion is plain to any spiritual eye and I need not add to it nor do I delight in such things further then for the truths sake I am moved for the day is come that all shall be manifest and you cannot be hid Secondly You accuse me for grosly perverting the Scripture to which I answer I suppose the Reader will not finde any private interpretation by me put upon any Scripture but quoted as they are without adding any sense to them but leaves them to the Reader to view now whether I pervert them who quotes them as they are in plain words as they are set down or you who give your private meanings on them and brings one to oppose and cross another and who perverts the Scripture is plain to any who are guided by the same Spirit who gave them forth and I leave it to such to judge Thirdly You accuse me with palpable shufflings to which I answer Shuffling and deceit I abhorre and love and practise plainness and truth and that is your advantage you have against us as all your forefathers the persecutors ever had against Christ and his Saints who when they could not condemn them by any witness without them yet they would aske them many questions to ensnare them for the subtil serpent knows that they who are of the spiritual Seed dare not deny that before men which they own before God though they suffer for it and I know I shall not be accused as shuffling in my answer by any but those of your Generation and in my Conscience I am cleared of it in the sight of God and so your slanders toucheth me not but shal be your own garments to wear Fourthly You accuse me of miserable weakness and you say you cannot but smile at it and may laugh at my ignorance to which I answer Herein you declare to all men what Spirit you are of who glory in your own strength and laugh at the weakness of others which none that ever was guided by the Spirit of Christ ever did but laugh on a while yet know your woe is coming and your laughter shall be turned into weeping and howling and for my weakness as you call it where is my strength and ignorance at which you so much rejoyce if the strength and wisdom of God be but made perfect in it that is it I wait for and herein shall the Scriptures be fulfilled 1 Cor. 1. 27. that God hath chosen the weake and foolish things to confound the mighty and wise take notice of it betimes you sturdy oakes and tall cedars and tremble ye mountains at his presence Fifthly You accuse me with horrible rayling To which I answer What language have I used against you except such as the Spirit of God in Scriptures gives to those of your generation if I have not the language of the same Spirit why doe you not mention it in particular but so often accuse in general to render me odious but deceit is got into such fine colours that it cannot beare a plaine language for the divel would not be discovered and plainly dealt with where he is and therefore he hath bred up his children in manners that they must not call him that vents his lyes a lyar nor him whom he hath deceived and sent out deceive others a deceiver nor one who takes hire a hireling though they be found in the very act but some finer words must be used and here you that cannot beare the Scripture language but cals it rayling shews to all what brood you are of who would not be plainly dealt with but who is guided by the Spirit of God is taught not to flatter but to use plainness of speech yet not in envy and whosoever is free from opinion and reads over both our writings may easily finde out raylers scorners lyars slanderers and false accusers and let such judge And now a few words to the rest of your slanders in particular as for that you call a short draught of my answer I shall not say any thing to it here being the many lyes that are in it are so plainly discovered to all who have read my answer and will more fully be layd open hereafter when we come to the particulars The first slander is grounded upon my subscribing my self one whom the world cals James Nayler and you say you are jealous of a mystery of Iniquitie from these words and though you confess the ground to be your own jealousie yet you proceed to slander upon it and tels where the mysterie lyes and this you say is to cloake our pretence of being equal with God and that we herein depart from Scripture and would conclude God and Christ under carnal observations or else teach them to speak To which I answer How any whom these men love not can be free from their aspersions let any man judge who can so highly slander upon the ground of their own jealousie and how this jealousie is grounded any may judge For first are not the words true am not I one whom the world cals James Nayler and they know no other name and yet the Scripture speaks Rev. 2. 17. of him that overcometh having a new Name that no man knows but he that hath it and how do we here depart from Scripture nay who witness the new man establish the Scripture and witness the promise of Christ fulfilled in him and here I charge you in the presence of the living God to be coatrary to the Scriptures and the Spirit that gave them forth and with it shall be judged eternally and that new name you know not as you make it appear and how we exclude God and Christ under carnal observations or teach them to speak in owning the promise fulfilled and if this be not a most wicked and wilfull slander cast upon us to make us odious let the Reader judge And you would have the people beleeve that the man of sin is to be found at Rome that so they may not discover him neerer hand in your selves but they who observe your practise preaching loe here and loe there and printing for the upholding of the kingdom of sin making people beleeve they shall never be free from it while they are on the earth they where the Spirit of Christ is doth discover the man of
sin neerer hand for whoever opposeth the end of Christs coming which was to take away sin and to set free from it and to present perfect unto the Father without spot or blemish such are Antichrists and the man of sin acts in them to uphold his own kingdom which is sin and there you are as your practise printing and preaching may witness and are discovered by the Spirit of Christ where it is though you have long acted in a mysterie for are not you the same men who have had great sums of mony for crying out against sin but now that the kingdom of sin begins to fall you have changed your voyce and tels people they must never be free from sin while they live nor ever attain to perfection and so takes peoples money for pleading against the commands of Christ who saith Be ye perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect Mat. 5. 48. Be ye holy for I am holy 1 Pet. 1. 15. 16. Eph. 5. 27. and so being found to minister against Christ he is blinde who cannot see you to be ministers of Antichrist for they who were ministers of Jesus Christ prayed and preached for the perfecting of the Saints that they might perfect what was lacking in their faith 1 Thes 3. 10. that they might present every one perfect in Christ Jesus Col. 1. 28. and bring up to perfection even to the measure stature and fulness of Christ Eph. 4. 12. and such said how can you that are dead to sin live any longer therein Rom. 6. which you deny that any can attain to perfection or freedom from sin while they are here and so are acted by a contrary Spirit to Christ and all that ever he sent forth and would make people beleeve that Christ had commanded that which none should ever attain to and those who witness it and would press others to press after it in the power of Christ such you reckon up among those you call blasphemers and heretical doctrine but all this is that you may be made manifest whose ministers you are And whereas you reckon us up among the Papists thereby to make us odious unto people but are you not ashamed of it who are found amongst them your selves in many things which you call your worship wherein we deny both them and you and they are one with you against us in persecution and revilings have not they builded the Idols Temples and you worship in them are not you one with them in observing many dayes and times and forms as sprinkling infants singing and many such like things are you not one with them in bearing rule as lords and masters over the Common People and would have to doe in ordering of the State-affairs are you not one with them as in your tythes and fat parsonages and divers other things which might be mentioned all which we deny yours and their practise as being contrary to the Saints in Scripture and commands of Christ And where is there one Papist ownes us I command you all you Priests to make your slander good or else lay your hands on your mouths in silence and confess your selves to all the world to be lyars And now to the particulars wherein you charge us to be one with the Papists I charge you to be lyars and do answer As we receive not the ground of what we practise from the Papists or you neither do we deny what is truth because they or you may profess it but shall owne it before all the world though by you we be reproached for it And first You charge us with denying Justification without us and for witnessing justification by Christ alone in us which we owne Christ in us according to the measure made manifest our sanctification justification redemption from sin and the hope of glory Col. 1. 26 27. and this we owne within us which is a mystery and hath been hid from ages and is now hid from you and the wisdom of the world as you make it appear And here he thâ—t sits in Heaven may have you in derision and you to be ignorant of the mystery who have shewed forth your folly For the second You charge us for being justified by inherent righteousness which word we deny it is a word of your own coyning but by being made the righteousness of God in Christ 2 Cor. 5. 21. and denying all our own righteousness are we justified And this Christ and this righteousness we witness within us in measure Thirdly you charge upon us that we say Every Saint is perfect and that it is possible to be perfectly holy and without sin and yeeld perfect obedience to the Law of God I answer To your first it is a lying slander that we say every Saint is perfect for we witness the Saints growth and the time of pressing after-perfection To your second we own it that it is possible to be perfectly holy and without sin and herein we have the Saints in Scripture to witness with us which I charge you to be ignorant of and not come to the first principles who witnessed the new birth freedom from sin and perfection Heb. 10. 14. As to your third I answer that not one jot or tittle of the Law shall pass till all be fulfilled and it was the end for which God sent his Son manifest in the flesh that by him the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit Rom. 8. 3 4. And herein we have the Saints in Scripture to witness with us The fourth thing which you charge upon us is That the Spirit is not to be tried by Scripture To which I answer That Spirit which is of God is one with that which gave forth the Scripture where-ever it is yet can none who have not that Spirit try the spirits by the Scripture for they who have not that infallible spirit that gave forth the Scriptures have the spirit of Errour and judge amiss both of Spirit and Scripture as the Scribes and Pharisees did and you do But they who have that infallible spirit which gave forth the Scripture have that which tryed the spirits before the Scripture was and such have their touchstone witâ—in them and not without them and such need not go to the letter to try the spirits The fifth thing you charge upon us is to cry down the necessity of the written Word and call it a dead letter and that it is but a declaration of them that spoke it forth To which I answer Where read you of a written Word But if you thereby mean the Scriptures which we call a declaration of them that spake them forth It is true we do so and they who spake them forth witness them with us to be a declaration Luke 1. 1. 1 Joh. 1. 3. and the letter and not the spirit But that we cry down the necessity of the Scriptures is false for they are our own and we see them
the presence of the Lord to be slanderers and false accusers who say we deny these things And whereas you would deny that you persecuted us and would put it upon those who are sent to you from the Lord to witness against your deceit as though they were the persecutors but whether those whom the Lord sent out to cry wo against the false prophets and hirelings calling them greedy dumb dogs blinde guides and many such like playn words or they who caused them to be haled before Rulers there accused them cast them into prison and put them to death whether of these were the persecutors then the same are the persecutors now as some of us can witness who have been haled before Magistrates and there vehemently accused and cast into prison and some stoned and not a few of you who call your selves ministers have had a hand in it and been the cause of it and whereas you say You have been hindred in the seed of the word I answer What word have you to sow who deny the word of the Lord coming to you but your seed being stollen makes a bad harvest and little fruit to be reaped and whereas you tell of bringing our selves within the compass of the Law for declaring our message to you from the Lord and that we suffer as evil doers here take notice whose ministers you are who have had papists Law that guarded the Jesuites contrary to the Scripture to defend you with which the ministers of Christ never had and Christ all the Saints suffered as evil doers in the account of those who were protected by carnal Laws whereas you say You are set for the confirmation and defence of the Gospel I pray you who set you since you deny the immediate call of God and so have set your selves or are set by the will of man and that the Gospel should be defended by persecution and persecutors was never known Now a few words to your reply to my answer and first to your first position as touching your accusing George Fox that he said that he was equall with God and you say your proof is not at all denied I answer That those words were spoken is not denied but that they are the words of George Fox is denied And you use many words and say I make a difference between George Fox and himself so that though George Fox is not equal with God yet he that is called George Fox is equal with God And thus when you have made up a piece of deceit to blinde the people then you go about to frame an answer to confute it and so you confute your own deceit and not my words For the sum of mine answer was this That George Fox was denied as dust but the Spirit that spoke in him is equal with God according to the Scripture and the words of Christ who saith When you are called before Rulers for my Names sake take no thought what to speak for it is not you that speak but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you Matth. 10. 20. Now George Fox being called before Rulers for the Name of Christ he denies George Fox to speak and the creature who is but dust and witnesseth the Spirit of the Father speaking in him though the words pass through George Fox and the words of Christ fulfilled And are not the Father and the Son and the Spirit equal where-ever they are and must they not be suffered to speak where they are But you that are carnal know not the voice Thus the answer is plain to any spiritual eye but to satisfie you who cavil on purpose is impossible but what I say is for the simple ones sake And I shall not follow you in your arguments for I know they shall deceive none but such as are deceived already and are willing so to be Now whereas you say I blasphemously abuse the Scriptures are you not ashamed to charge me with the abusing of them who do but onely set them down as they are without giving any meaning to them which Scriptures you take and wrest them to another end then for which the holy Ghost spake them forth adding your own invention words which the Scripture speaks not For where doth the Scripture speak of a Physical or relative oneness But by these words you darken knowledge and blinde peoples mindes lest they should seek after an oneness with God for the Scripture faith He that is joyned to the Lord is one spirit 1 Cor. 6. 17. and Christ saith That they may be one even as thou Father and I are one Joh. 17. 21 22 23. and As he is so are we in this present world 1 Joh. 4. 17. Which Scriptures you wrest to another end by your subril words added to them Now who blaspemes the Scriptures whether you or I let truth judge and your accusation fall upon your own pate And for your falsly accusing me to say I was as holy just and good as God himself what I have said in mine answer in my former book may sufficiently convince any one that fears God that I am clear of it And whereas you bring William Baldwinson's testimony which may give evidence against your selves and shew it to any honest heart both your deceit and his For before I was charged with this in particular and now you say Richard Farnworth and I both said it and he confessed there was a great deal of people in the house Now it was strange we should both say it and none hear it but himself for the great deal of people he speaks of they do witness against him in it and divers of them have offered their testimony against him But fending and proving becometh not Saints nor did they ever use it nor dare I stand by the witness of men but have the witness of God against you and your slanders who will reward every one according to their doings both the slanderer and the lyer and not onely by your reporting these but also your seeking evidence to back them herein you are serving the devil the father of lyes and so make that appear to be true which I have spoken of you Now for your charging George Fox to say he was the judge of the world and you say I deny it not but tell you that you are grosly ignorant of Christ I answer If you be not grosly ignorant of Christ and the Scripture let any wise man judge for you say God hath committed all judgement to the Son and yet you will not own him to be judge where he is wherein you go about either to exclude him from being in the Saints and so would limit him into a particular place or from being judge in them where he is Now that you are ignorant of Christ all that know him shall witness for all that know him know him in them and that he judgeth the world in them and the things of the world in every particular and he that is
in his own power to stand perfect And you are offended that I should say that the book should witness against your false slander and that the word is twice repeated to stand in Gods power and not in his own I answer I shall appeal to any sober Christian who reads the Querie whether the words carry not the very same sense twice over where it is said Able in his power to have stood if they had not for saken his power and consented to the wisdom of the serpent Where if I had spoken of the power of man and woman then it should have been set down their power and not his power which onely holds forth the power of God And for your deceitful reasoning to back your slander wherein you would deny Adam in that state of innocencie to stand in the power of God therein you shew you know not Adam in innocencie nor his standing with God for while he stood he stood in that power and wisdom and counsel of God and the looking out from that was the cause of his fall And here all that ever know Adam in innocencie shall witness against your ignorance and foolishness And whereas you charge George Fox with scoffing at the grace of God and that to pray for the sight of sin and for power from sin is a tempting of God and to pray for light to discover sin and refraining from it are needless I answer This slander comes from the same root of the rest For scoffing at the grace of God it is false I charge you to be lyers in the presence of the living God and you for eternal condemnation for the grace of God he owns as is plain where he saith The free grace of God hath appeared to all men which shews sin and evil which whosoever lives in after it be discovered by the grace of God and yet with a pretence makes a prayer to God to give them a sight of their sins when God hath letten them see their sins freely by his grace and they will not forsake it such tempt God and their prayers are abomination and God will not hear the prayers of them that regard iniquity But how falsly you gather from these words that to pray for power against sin or to refrain from it is to tempt God or a thing needless let any one that fears the Lord judge and witness against your slanderous spirit But wickedness shall be upon the head of the wicked And for the prayers and practice of the Saints which was to overcome and forsake sin them we own and have union with in that which is holy and they witness with us against your practice who live in sin and plead for it and for a pretence make long prayers And for that you call Nayler's lyes because I say you are slanderers which shall appear to be true more and more to all the children of light under your own hands And whereas you would go about to prove Adam in the state of innocencie under the Covenant of Works and that he had the Levitical Law for that is the Covenant of Works I answer What were the works that he was to do for life for the Covenant of Works saith Do this and live but he had the life already while he stood in it and so it was not to be obtained by working and the Scripture saith The Law was added because of transgression which if it had been before the transgression could not have been And Adam in his innocencie stood not by the Moral Law as you call it for that which was given to Adam was Thou shalt not eat which nowhere in Scripture is called the Covenant of Works Thus while you laugh at my ignorance as you say you discover your own wickedness and folly Now to your ninth Position That no man that commits sin or that is not perfectly holy can ever enter into the kingdom of heaven unless there be a Purgatory And in your Reply you think strange that I should deny your wresting of my words to another purpose then for which I spoke them But seeing your charge is grounded upon my Querie why have you altered the words from what I wrote as by inserting the word ever whenas he that hath sinned may repent and so his sin be done away and your adding the words Vnless there be a Purgatory as though I owned a cleansing after death When as the Querie is Whether you own a Purgatory or no who say none can be clean from sin while they live Now I shall appeal to any where there is honesty if you have not wrested my words and you in the Papists minde again in that Querie whenas you charge me with owning a Purgatory which I deny as is plain by these words seeing the tree must lie as it falls this is your deceit which would perswade the Reader to look upon my words according to your false interpretation when you have wrested them and not as I spake them but when my words will not serve you to ground your slanders on as they are set down then you take and alter them for your own ends and that this is not a shuffle and your shuffle I own not which shall stand for your selves but plain dealing in me to clear the truth from your slanders may appear to all who read both our books And whereas you say You have found me out a medium for the washing of the sins of them that die in sins which is neither holiness here nor a purgatory but the blood of the Lord Jesus Now I challenge you to finde one Scripture which saith The blood of Christ cleanseth sinners after death for it is onely effectual to the believers And now let all who know any thing of faith judge if it be not you that are shuffling and put to the pinch you speak of who for clearing your deceit would make people believe that which the Scriptures speak not but is raised in your invention And whereas you charge me with dealing falsly with that Scripture 1 John 1. 7. because I say Doth it say any are cleansed from sin while they personally act sin which I say that Scripture doth not as shall appear to all that read it but quite contrary And whereas you charge me to imitate Satan who when he came to tempt Christ took what Scripture would serve his purpose and leaves out the rest I answer Your slander is false for I mentioned the same Scripture you set down without adding or leaving out and herein I have not wronged you neither will the verse following nor any other Scripture warrant what you speak That a man is cleansed from sin while he personally acts sin but your words are contrary to the words of Christ who saith He that committeth sin is the servant of sin but you say He may act sin and be cleansed from sin Now who deals deceitfully with the Scripture and with mens souls and imitates the father of lyes let
present in Spirit which you go about to deny by your meanings and so would make Paul a lyar like your selves but they who believes your wrestings before Paul's words are blinde like you and so with the Apostles light you are all judged and so the blinde leads the blinde And because I say the Spirit of God was the trier of Spirits before the letter was therefore you would make people believe that I hold forth that the Word is not to be regarded nor the Law looked upon nor the Scripture heeded and when you have thus falsly slandered you say you leave the Reader to laugh at it it shews that light Spirit rules in you but whilst you are thus in your laughter and perswading others to laugh also all that fear God may mourn to see your doctrine to see you profess the name of the Lord who is holy and you to gather up such filthy consequences as these to slander the truth withal and when you have done make it a matter of laughter but the day is at hand when your laughter shall be turned into howling and weeping and then wo unto you and those that laugh with you And for what I said of your several judgements and worships and imagined Gods according to your several judgements it is true as all that take notice of you and your divisions through the whole Nation may witness with me for the true God is but one and his worship one And whereas you say you hold the head the Lord Jesus it is false for they who hold him for their head the Lord and Master denied to be called Masters themselves amongst the Saints or of the world but owned one Master which is the Head which is Christ and they were all brethren neither did they exercise authority one over another as the Heathen do neither were they bowed to and worshipt with cap and knee as you are and do to others for they had one Master whom they worshipped and bowed their knee to which was spiritual in whom they believed which faith they had not in respect of persons but you are enemies to that faith neither can you believe who receive honor one of another John 5. 44. and here you hold not the Head the Lord but walk as Lords your selves amongst your hearers which Peter and Paul never did whose conditions you talk so much on and this is not my venom but a true witness against your unrighteous practice And whereas you talk of things hard to be understood in the Scriptures which the unstable and unlearned wrest It is true and you are those unlearned who were never taught of God nor heard his voice but reproach them that have and you are they who wrest these Scriptures to your own destruction and not rightly understanding them cannot discover every Spirit nay you are so blinde that you cannot discover that spirit in you that acts you in covetousness pride slander envie and persecution is the spirit of the devil and that spirit that acts you to plead for sin while men live to be the spirit of the man of sin and though you talk of the word that is sweeter then the hony and the hony combe and so have stoln Davids words yet that word you know not nor that sweetness of it who deny the word of the Lord coming to you and know no word but the letter for that word which David speaks of was within him and not without him which word I witness and its sweetness And whereas you charge me to set a gloss upon that Scripture Isa 8. 20. To the Law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them and because I say The Law of God in the new Covenant is written in the hearts of men which is plain in the Scriptures Heb. 8. 10. Therefore you say I overturn all Scripture so that for me to speak Scripture and witness the promise of God in the new Covenant and the end of the old by your deceit you would make it to overturn Scripture and you say it hath reference to the Law written in tables of stone 'ts true and that was in the old Covenant a type of the new and of that Law that should be written in mens hearts in the new Covenant you that would deny the new Covenant to establish the old make it appear that you are blinde and ignorant of that Covenant and that pure Law which is within written by the Lord in the heart and are in your own righteousness and Covenant of works and so have no light in you whose light and Law is without and all that are spiritual against you who saies herein I overturn all Scriptures who witness the Scriptures fulfilled and as for John Gilpin whom you say is delivered out of the snares of the devil and would make him a stumbling-block to the truth his practice since hath shewed how he hath been delivered out of the snares of the devil and the judgement of God hath overtaken him and whether they consulted with John Gilpin against Christ who caused his book to be printed over again and framed it at the first the truth may easily judge and their reward shall be according to their works To your fifteenth Position That there ought to be no sence meaning or exposition given or studying of the Scripture And in your Reply you say The Scriptures are in some places given out darkly and when you have done you say it is from the darkness that lies on the Spirits of the Saints Here is your confusion and darkness and for the key of David you speak on it is not committed into the hands of any hirelings as you are nor ever was but where Christ is and such live the life of the Scriptures and so open them in their conversation as well as words and till your lives witness what you preach you shut them to others and not open them And how long your generation have been about opening them all may see and yet they are shut from your selves and you cannot agree about them and then how will you open them to others but who waits for that Spirit that gave them forth shall not need you and your openings but by that Spirit will deny you and your openings and with that Spirit judge you all and the blindeness of you hearers your own practice shews what openers you are for they are a book sealed to your wisdom and carnal learning Therefore let them alone as they are for they are of no private interpretation nor are they committed to you to open nor doth any Scripture you alledge prove any such thing And whereas you say you have the infallible Spirit dwelling in you I answer Where that Spirit is it is one and admits of no disputes and janglings but speaks one and the same thing in all that have it in their measure but your divisions amongst your selves witness what Spirit
write his letter upon to the Priest of Newcastle and they put it in print to minister forth his lyes that their folly might be made manifest to all the Country and truth confirmed and the deceit trodden upon And Moor which sent his lying wench as his own hearers calls her she came to me three times to Robert Wither's and she scoft and she was asked if Christ taught her to scoff and she said He did teach her to scoff and before her face it was written down and she was denied to talk of the Scriptures that is a scoffer And the lyer would have known what Scripture there had been for foming at the mouth and wherever did he read of any such unless it were such that were possessed with the devil she said he denied that any of theirs did till Jane Withers was pointed out and then she said he confessed it Oh thou lyer and slanderer God will make thee an example to all lyers and they that witness for Jane Withers which are of the Priests own hearers some will witness against thee to be a lyer and one that matters not what thou speakest and before James's face she was proved a slanderer and a lyer and lying is a sin and he denies it and to say he confessed that Jane Withers fomed at the mouth is a lye and many will witness against it And here thou Moor that art for the lake who fathers lyes thy own hearers will witness against thee And whereas you say she asked him if lying was a sin here in this you are proved to be lying and sinning and so with the just you lyers are judged and condemned for the lake eternally though thou may think a while to please the world But Oh thou Harlot thy wo and misery is coming Some Scriptures given forth about travailing as I said I will cry as a travailing woman Isa 42. 14. Isa 63. 1. travailing in the greatnes of his strength Rom. 8. 22. travaileth in pain together Micah 4. 3. She which travaileth hath brought forth Isa 21. 3. as the pargs on a woman in travail Habakkuk whose belly trembled And here Moor and his messenger seems to be ignorant of the Letter and wonderers which are to perish And the Priests of Newcastle which said they could not but smile at James Nayler hath declared themselves to be the mockers that should come in the last time and the maid which they printed her lyes said that Christ taught her to scoff before many witnesses And here they shew what generation they are on like Priest like people for they who dwell in the Truth can scarcely pass up and down for your scoffing generation but to us your reproaches are great riches and knowing that you and your generation is for condemnation which stumble at the light The second Practice Railing and you instance these words Thou art damned and I see the devil in thy face and this you say is the first salute to all we meet with to which I answer Thousands in the Country shall witness you false accusers which we have met with past by and spoke not one word to them but you are shameless and care not what you say against us and for words which have been spoken to some of you which you call railing you will finde them one day to be no railings but the language of the Spirit upon the head of the man of sin in you though for the present you will not own them The third Practice Their pretending upon all occasions to be sent by a special commission from God To this I answer What have you to do to speak of or how can you judge of them that are sent by God who deny the immediate call and scorns it and knows it not can you judge of that you know not who knows not the word of God nor his call And whereas you say I knew not the things in particular and yet I take the boldness to call them lyes I answer Your words are false for I say I knew not the things in particular and therefore could say little but finding your book stufe with lyes and untruths gave me cause to see many of these to be like the rest which is not to call them lyes as you say and now judge of your own conscience as you say And for denying that any that were before the Magistrates were invited to any of your houses are not my words but the words of one who was before the Magistrates as will appear in the margent though you so rashly cast it upon me and here it may be seen who it is that rusheth upon a lye which you charge me to do but are found the lyers your selves neither did you invite any of them which were called before the magistrates as appears both by their own witness and your own confession for you say it was Tho. Tayler you invited who was not then called before the Magistrates nor imprisoned And you that call it immodest for the Saints to greet one another with a kiss and would slander by it may as well accuse the Apostle for immodest who exhorteth the Saints to it and was this the thing you kept so close when you said to say no more It seemed by those words to have been some hainous thing and not the Apostles exhortation and Saints practice but you want matter to accuse of And for what Wallis said there was witness enough and all your fending and proving cannot stop the truth but make your deceit more appear And for your reason you shew why you called your book The Perfect Pharisee and you say That title is most properly applied to us I answer It 's most properly applied to them who are found to walk in the steps of the Pharisees and whether that be us or you let your practices judge and all that see us and all your practice shall witness with me that I have not wronged or belyed you as you would make people believe but let any honest heart who reads both our books judge betwixt us who are the slanderers lyers and railers which you would cast upon me but the thing is evident to all and you cannot be hid who have nothing to judge withal and it is of God to discover you to all that you may deceive no longer Blessed be our God who is revealing the man of sin who hath acted in a mystery and is delivering his people from your mouthes and redeeming them to himself who is holy praises be to our God for ever and let all the children of light praise him for ever And if any scruple why the servants of God should be made signs and wonders to this generation I refer them for satisfaction to a printed paper called A Wo to Kendal in the County of Westmoreland in which you shall finde the dear servants of God made signes and wonders to the generation of the wicked then and confounding the sepents wisdom acting strange things by the immediate