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A16615 A myld and iust defence of certeyne arguments, at the last session of Parliament directed to that most Honorable High Court, in behalfe of the ministers suspended and deprived &c: for not subscribing and conforming themselues etc Against an intemperat and vniust consideration of them by M. Gabril Powell. The chiefe and generall contents wherof are breefely layd downe immediatly after the epistle. Bradshaw, William, 1571-1618. 1606 (1606) STC 3522; ESTC S104633 109,347 172

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done by the other Let all Prelats that pleade more stoutly for superstitious Romish raggs then they doe duly regard Gods holy ordinances let such Prelats rather take heede that such things as are here threatned to the Parliament by the answerer doe not be fall unto them Whereas the answerer in his answer to the ●4 supposed Argument betwixt the third and the first reckoneth us up in the bitternes of his spirit with all Schismatikes Heretikes Papists Athists murtherers theues cutpurses etc therin he sheeweth his brotherly loue and kindnes towards us Esa 53 12 Mar 15 27. and how well he spareth us But sith Christ Iesus was coūted among the wicked yea crucified betwixt two theeues yea and had also a murderer preferred before him why should we his servants wretched men and great sinners be greeved or ashamed thus to be reckōed with such vile persons 2 Tim 2.12 Iohn 17.24 Yea rather we may the more comfort our selues because if we suffer with him we are the better assured that we shall reigne with him who hath prayed the Father that we may be with him even where he is to behold his glory G. Powel For Siserae was a speciall enimy of the children of Israel Iudges 4.2 The instance of Iaeel is altogether different and Church of God but the ornaments the Supplicants speake of are the good creatures of God having no hurt at all in them Was not Sisera also the creature of God Reply and in that respect may it not be sayd that he had no evill in him And is not the Pope also an enimy to the people and Church of God as well as Sysera was Yea is he not much more in as much as he is enimy to their spirituall state and everlasting salvation Moreover touching the ornaments of Popery mentioned in the Argument doe we speake of them as they were the creatures of God or as they were and are still by many Papists abused to Idolatry What doth the answerer say for them that might not haue been sayd for the covering of the images of silver Isa 30 22 which the Iewes that should truely repent of Idolatry were to pollute that is to account as thinges polluted and for the rich ornaments of the images of gold which also they were to cast away as a menstrous cloth Sophistry and with great disdayne to say unto it get thee hence What fallacy this is the answerer knoweth G. Powel Neyther were the Popish Priests ever decked with our ornamēts neither are they now Neither were our ornaments ever worshipped or abused to Idolatry eyther are they yet Neyther if they had been is it absolutly necessary to destroy the substance of them etc but only to take away the abuse and to restore the right use The reasons are sheewed chap 11 De adiap horis Are you sure their is never a Surplice now in England Reply that was abused to Idolatry publikely in Queene Maryes time or secretly sithens that tyme If it be true of surplices are you sure it is true of all Coapes Nay rather I scarse thinke that there is not any Coape now that was not in the time of Popery Besides haue you forgotten the distinction of idem specie and idem numero Ahas sent not the same Alter to Ierusalem that was at Damascus 2 Kings 16 10 but onely commanded the like thereof to be made By this reason also we may erect new images in Churches as some all ready are in some places and say that these images were never worshipped or abused Exceter Here therfore behold agaīe your sophistry Sophistry Touchyng the substance of things abused to Idolatry we urge not the destroying thereof neyther doe we deny the restoring of them to any good civill or naturall use from which they were first taken and imployed to Idolatry But we deny that we ought to haue any such honorable use as to haue any place in the service of God Deut 12.31 who expresly forbiddeth to be so worshipped I understand this of such thinges as God hath not commanded or wherof there is no necessary use Such are the ornaments in question The objections against this are plentifully answered in other books The 11. chapiter of your booke wherunto you referre us is not worth the reading of a learned man It conteyneth objections of your owne making not of ours Which of us was ever so mad as to say que ad Dei gloriam fiunt iis colitur Deus For are not the dutyes of the second table performed for the glory of God Is God worshipped by them This is to confound both the tables Who ever also saide Quicquid fit ex fide et Deo placet whatsoever is done of faith and pleaseth God is the worship of God So our eating drinking and whatsoever else we doe shall be the worship of God I wonder you blushed not to impute such thinges unto us and to cast your owne shame upon us The third objection indeede in that chapter touching the proposition is in part yet not wholly ours But your answer thereunto maketh more for us then against us as a child that hath well learned the principles of religion might easily shew But I for beare answer of them and leaue them to other to shew your childish weaknes there in and in that whole booke By the sight wherof I praye God you may see what it is to write against the truth In other things you haue written well and we thanke God for your paynes but in these causes your arguments are like fagots of thornes full of prickes without substance bound with bonds of strawe which by the fire of Gods truth are quickly burnt up though for a time they fill agreat roome and seeme to make a great blaze yea they are like to ignis fatuus which terrifieth simple men as if it were a spirit but is in truth but a litle fire of certeyne slymie exhalations at the most they are but like a Comet or blazing starr which though it seeme to ignorant men to be aboue in the starrie heavens with the fixed starres yet for all that is but in the highest region of the ayre and at the last is dissolved into winds Thus much for reply to the 17. Argument yea to all For to the conclusion of all which the Notary answerer unaptly call a distinct Argument their is nothing answered requyring any further reply then hath been already made This therefore shall suffice for defence of the former Arguments In the answer whereof though perhaps there be the more scoffes reproches cavils bitter speeches and uncharitable collections to haue provoked us unto the like that thereby some further advantage might haue been ministred unto them against our cause and against our selues yet as the author of the argumēts used not any such word to provoke them so I thought good to walke in the like stepes of modestie that the defence of the Arguments
haue done in regard that Saule was the Lords annoynted this is not so much to be respected as the consideration and reason why they rescued Ionathan Neither is the Argument by that wherein they fayled any weakened but rather the more strenghtened For if they so respected a bodily deliverance wrought by Ionathan that they passed the bounds of their duty should not the regard of a spirituall deliverance moue such a christian assembly to speake what lawfully they may with all modesty and humility THE FITH ARGVMENT Nehemiah spake to an heathen King for the materiall Ierusalem So did Hester to the like King for her people and that not without great danger to her selfe Ioseph also of Arimathea and Nicodemus both timorous men spake boldly to Pilate an heathen also for the body of Christ beyng dead that they might honorably bury it yea this they two did when all the Disciples of Christ had forsaken him as also when his enimyes had prevailed against him Yet all these had good successe in that for which they spake Ergo Much more ought this High Court of Parliament to speake to a Christian and religious King for the building of the spirituall Ierusalem for the spirituall state and furthering of the soules of many depending upon the Ministers now molested and for whole Christ Iesus now living and raignyng Marginall notes G. Powel a Impertinent example Reply G. Powel This note is impertinent as shall appeare by his answer afterward and the reply therunto b A foule beggyng of the question as if the schisme of a few were so just and important a matter as the delivery of the whole Church from intended certeyne destruction Reply The substance of this note touching schisme being like the song of the Aprill bird that hath but one note I haue often answered Though we were such Schismatiks as the answerer chargeth us to be yet we ought to haue that benefite of law which Paule claimed even in Nero his time and was not denyed it Acts 25.12 G. Powel c These pure Angels of light thinke all the world in darknes besides themselues These scoffes can hardly come from a pure mind but doe rather beseeme prophane Angels of darknes then the children of light Reply much lesse the Preachers of holines Whether we that are depriued and silenced are fitter for the worke of the ministery then 5000. in the land that stand for ministers and receaue the wages of Ministers I will not say let the whole High Court of Parliament iudge but let many of the Prelats and other conformitans judg G. Powel d An impudent untruth of a false Prophet They made themselues uncapable of any place in the ministery Reply Let all those that charge us with impudency and making our selues uncapable of the ministery take heed that one day they be not ashamed before the Sonne of God at his cōmyng and that then also the Sonne of God be not a shamed of them before his Father and his holy Angels and so pronoūce them uncapable of the kingdome of heaven yea least also the master of such a servant come in an houre that he is not ware of cut him of and giue him his portion with hypocrites Mat. 24.50.51 Michael the Archangell durst not blame the Devill with cursed speaking but sayd the Lord rebuke thee Iud. 9. You know what is written by an orator of an orator Ex eius ore verba magno impetu atque aestu erumpebant non secus ac feruentes aque ebulliunt et exiliunt That which is sayd of his words may be sayd of the reproches raylings scoffings etc of this notary But are we false Prophets False Prophets runne before they are sent They speake out of their owne hearts they follow their owne spirit and haue seene nothing Eze 13.2.3 Ierem. 14.14 They flatter heale the hurt of Gods people with sweete wordes saying Peace peace where there is no peace Ierem. 8.11 They are hypocrits pretending great holines commyng in sheeps apparell but being inwardly ravenyng wolues Math. 7.15 They are covetous and cruell like a roaring Lion ravenyng the pray devouring soules taking riches and preciouss things etc Ezech. 22.25 They are proud and ambitious loving the prayse of men more then the prayse of God Can we be charged with these thinges Hath not the Lord sent us Doe we speake any thing but that the Lord hath put into our mouthes Our flattery consisteth in playne reprehending of sinne and denouncyng the judgment of God against the same Our covetousnes is inspendyng all we haue and leaving nothing to our posteritie Our cruelty is in suffering the manifold injuryes that are done unto us Our hypocrisie is in a care of keeping a good conscience Our ambition is in the abasing of our selues beneath the parentage and education of many of us and in bearing the scornes reproches of the world yea in beyng accoumpted the skumme of the world and contemned by some that haue been glad of the crustes that haue come from some of our tables Why then doth this Notary call the author of those Arguments or any other by him pleaded for in his Arguments by this odious name of a false Prophet If the Lord rebuke him for so calling us I pray that it may not be in anger Touching our in capacitie of any place in the ministery wherfore are we so incapable What be our errours in doctrine What are our vices in life Is conformity the cheife and most cardinall virtue Is it the soule of a minister tota in toto et tota in qualibet parte Must all learnyng all piety all gravity all soundnes giue place to conformity So it seemeth For learned men godly men graue men and sound Divines I speake not of my selfe I confesse my selfe the meanest of many hundreds such men I say are thrust out and ignorant men wicked men young men corrupt and Popish men are put into the service of the Church May we not say Plead thou our cause O Lord etc psal 35.1 Yea rather may we not say Arise O Lord maynteyne thine owne cause remember thy dayly reproches by the foo man psal 74.22 G. Powel e They meane their Presbyterie Reply This is but a scoff and mocke But though we be mocked yet let this mocker remember that God is not mocked The author speaketh expresly of the ministery of the gospell which is for instruction this Notary saith he meaneth thereby their Presbytery which is for goverment But more of this afterward G. Powel f Note this They would haue all the Bishops removed deprived Doe you gather this because mention is made of removyng of the lets and impediments of the sincere ministery of the gospell Reply Then it seemeth that either you would haue a sharpe phisitian for the casting of waters sith you can see such invisible things in a mans words or else that your owne conscience told you that the Bishops are