earth For like as it is said in the 1. chap. and 11. verse of Genesis Let the earth bring foorth euery greene hearbe that beareth seede and let the water bring foorth fish the 1. chap. of Genesis and 20. verse so is it not likewise written and comaunded by God let heauen bring foorth the Sunne and the Moone but onely thus Let there bee lightes in the face of the open heauen Genesis the 1. chapter and 14. verse Whereby it sufficiently appeareth that the firste Heauen was not in suche manner the matter of heauenly things as it were a certein plentiful and frutefull Father of them neither that the matter of heauenly thinges was so ordeined as the earth was appointed by GOD too bee the matter and mother of earthly thinges S. Why would the Lorde haue thinges so diuersly to bee made out of those matters and that heauenly thinges should not bee made out of heauen as well as the earthly are out of the earth M. Not onely for this cause that like as they were made by hym of diuerse matter and differing in kinde although they bee all partakers of bodie so likewise it beehooued them to declare their vse and execute their duetie in diuerse maner too the ende their difference might bee vnderstoode and perceiued but also that God might reueale vntoo vs the better his mightie power and also his manifolde wisedome in so greate varietie of bringing foorth thinges So likewise in the framing of man onely God hath vsed one meane in creating his bodie and another his soule and by those meanes continually createth and maketh them notwithstanding that hee is able to make them both by one meane The. xxvii Chapter What is the fourme of the worlde S. HEthertoo concernyng the matter of the worlde saie sumwhat now if you can touchyng the fourme thereof M. I will doe so S. What therefore is the fourme of this so greate a woorke M. There cannot bee one onely and that substantiall thereof assigned For as I haue shewed beefore it is not possible that there should bee one onely and particulare soule of all the worlde whiche beeyng dispersed throughout euerie parte of the bodie thereof should wag stirre and mooue this so hugie frame and mole whatsheuer the Aristotelians and Platonikes doe suppose Likewise S. Augustine in his 7. booke de Genesiad Literam and 12. chapter doeth iustly deney that GOD is the soule of this worlde as of some liuing creature forasmuche as hee dwelleth aboue the bodie of the worlde and aboue euery Spirite and stretcheth beeyonde the endes of the whole worlde But God hath giuen vnto euery kinde his proper nature and forme ▪ whiche are disputed of in speciall treatises which are written of euery kinde of thyng As for roundenesse whiche some attribute to the worlde as the naturall fourme thereof it ought not too bee counted or called the inward or essentiall forme of the worlde but onely the outward and accidentall S. But dooeth not the Scripture attribute vnto the world partes and differences of situation as it were to a liuyng creature and countries and regions also distinct one from another M. It doeth so indeede but notwithstanding it prooueth not that there is but one and theself same fourme spirite and soule beelongyng to this worlde and that it is a liuyng creature S. Why so M. For forasmuche as there bee three kindes of bodies and ioynynges in composition one simple and continuall as a man the seconde ioyned and touchyng one another as an whole house the third disioyned as a flocke it is truely saied that euery kinde of bodie as it were a certeine whole thyng hath euermore some partes into whiche it is deuided and also sundrie differences of place and situation whiche may bee noted in it howbeeit euery kinde of bodie is not gouerned by one soule onely or one Spirite or one fourme but that onely whiche wee termed beefore simple and continuall as euery one of vs for example The xxviii Of the partes of the world and first of the Ethereall and Elementare region S. WHiche then bee the principall partes of the world whereof the scripture maketh mention M. They are of sundrie kindes For some bee integral which are the partes constituting the whole world whiche wee terme substanciall othersome distinguishing it onely and limited by reason of certeine vses and commodities S. Whiche are the integrall and constituting partes of the world M. There are briefly twayne for the most part proposed by the Scripture to wit the heauen and earth as it appeareth to the Colossians the 1. chapter and 16. verse and Genesis the 1. chap. and 2. verse and Isay the 1. chap. and 1. verse and in other places almost infinite although in Genesis the 49. cha and 25. verse heauen and the deapthes bee also reckned S. What did the Scripture then conteine vnder the name of heauen M. All that region of this world whiche is called by the Philosophers Ethereall and conteineth the celestiall and vnengendred bodies which continue and are not chaunged since the first day of their creation as sayth S. Peter 2. of Peter the 3. chapter and 4. verse S. And what vnder the name of the earth M. Not onelye this bodye and element whiche wee properly call the earth but also that whole region of this world whiche by the Philosophers is termed Elementare which conteineth in it such bodies as are engendred and are continually subiect to alteration S. Doe these twoo regions differ M. Yea very much both in name and effect In name for that the first is called heauen and this latter parte of the worlde is tearmed by the name of the elementes yea and that by the scripture For S. Peter in the 2. Epistle the 3. Chapter the 10. and 14. verses distinguisheth these words Heauen and y Elementes In effect for that this endureth and continueth in the old state the other is dayly chaunged and at one time is engendred and at an other tyme perisheth The first God hath reserued to himselfe the other hee hath giuen to the vse of man Psalme 115. and 16. verse The first as wee are taught shall perishe at the latter day but with sinale noyse and a lyght flashe of flame for that it consisteth of a fine and subtill nature but the other shall burne with great heat and bee dissolued with mightie rage of fyre eeuen in such sorte as looke how it hapeneth in our earthly material fire whē it flameth the stickes crack smoke sende foorth a vapour which proceedeth from the moyst partes therof so it is saide that the elementes shall glowe with heat and melt for that they are of an hard thick and clammie nature and not pure and cleane This difference also may bee obserued betwene the two partes of the worlde that the thinges which are in the first are the efficient principall causes of those thinges that are engendred in the other But the thinges that are in the second
bee framed also for that the principall and as it were the partes of the whole in respecte of this worlde as are heauen water earth are by our senses themselues perceiued to bee sphericall and rounde vnto whiche it is credible that the compasse of the whole worlde is semblable Howe bee it I can affirme nothinge certeinly therof since although wee admit that this part whiche is neerest vnto vs the lowermost of the circūference of the high heauen which wee beehold and which enuironeth althing be bending holow round notwithstandinge it maye bee imagined that the farthermoste and highermoste parte of the same circūference is of some other forme and I knowe ther bee some that haue saide that the vttermoste and farthermost part of heauen is shaped like a bell S. But in the Prophecic of Isay it is said that heauen is stretched foorthe and sprede abroade like a webbe or a curteine Isay the 40. chapter and 22. verse wherevnto also accordeth that which is written in the 104. Psalme and 2. verse wherfore it is like to a plaine whiche fourme is quite contrarie to a circle For a circle turneth about alwayes in his owne rowmeth M ▪ Uerily both the places which you haue alleaged declareth not the forme but the vttermost top or ende of world which therfore is said by God so to be stretched abroad and to couer the earth both that men may the more commodiously dwell vnder it as it were vnder a most beutifull and wide rough whereof it commeth that wee French men call all such couerings heauen and in our countrey language vn ciell and also to the intente that this is a veile beeinge sprede beefore mens eies they maye bee restrayned from the ouercurious and deepe entring into and searchinge after the secretes and misteries of God. S. But since the same holy Scripture hath plainly distinguished the higher place frō the lower in this worlde as in Isay the 55. chapter the 9. and 10. verses it cannot then seeme to bee sphericall or round For in a circle no part can bee called high or lowe forasmuch as all lines which are drawne from the center to the circumference are equall and the circumference it selfe which way soeuer it stande is alwaye vpwarde and in the higher place M. Of this wee will speake afterwarde and that more at large But nowe to set downe so much as shall bee sufficient to take all doubt out of your minde vnderstande thus much That by the rules of the mathematicians there bee indeede and are noted these positions of the higher and lower place and that they are indeede distinguished one from an other For the middle of the circle which they call the center is the lower place and downewarde and the circumference which is the vpper line which beeinge hollowe and meetyng togither conteineth the whole rounde space within the circle is the higher place and vpwarde so that in that these positions and kindes of places and differences are found in the world you may conclude that which you would to wit that the whole receite of this worlde is not sphericall and rounde The xiiii Chapter Whether the worlde haue one onely soule S. NOW forasmuch as this world is but one onely and since it is finite is it gouerned by some one speciallsoule onely whiche is dispersed throughout euerie parte thereof as it were in the members as wee see the soule to bee in a mans bodie M. That this whole world hath a soule and that one onely certain Philosophers of noble fame haue long since bene of opinion ▪ as Aristotle certayne other whose opinion hath hee folowed who wrote in this maner Firste heauen and earth and of the seas that flitring feeldes and fines These glorious starres this glistringe globe of Moone so bright that shines One liuely soule there is that feedes them all with breath of loue One minde throughe all these members mixt this mightie masse doth moue But this is not so much a solemne sentēce or saying as it is a great errour as S. Augustine teacheth in his booke against Felicia Aria ▪ the 12. Chapter S. Why so M. Bicause those bodies which are conteined within the gouenrment of one spirite and one soule are all one not diuided as is the bodie of euery one of vs not separate one from an other as a flocke and not one touching or neere ioyning to an other as are the fingers of a mans hande houses that stande one close to an other As for the parts of this bodie which wee call the worlde they are not onely distinguished one frō an other but separated also diuided frō thēselues by distāce of space For euery sheepe euery horse euery tree euery particulare mā is a part of this world yet are they so deuided by place mole of body and by circumscription of distance that it cannot bee saide that all and euerye one of these haue one soule onely For what would come to passe if it were imagined that in deed there were one onely soule and spirite in all these thinges For sooth this absurditie That the soule which is a certein simple nature and altogither spirituall were to be diuided as bodily things are and not by imagination onely Neither can this inconueniēce bee auoyded seeinge that those thinges in which that onely and singulare soule is conteined are in truth separate and diuided by place and determined euerye one of them by circumscription of their owne bodye Moreouer it shoulde folowe that all the partes of the world had life as the Sunne the moone the starres the heauē it selfe yea all the celestial bodies which notwithstanding S. Augustine moste plainely denieth in hys booke against Priscillia the 8. 9. Chapters that thys opinion of S. Augustine against the Mamches is true the effect prooueth For who woulde euer affirme that the starres had lyfe or reason Finally since of the partes of the worlde some bee mortall as brute beastes and certeine immortall as men howe can it bee that this singulare and one onely soule of the whole world can admit in it selfe qualities and conditions so contrarie and repugnaunt one to an other that it shoulde bee one parte of it mortall and another immortall specially beeing it selfe singulare one and simple not double and compounded Moreouer amonge such thinges as die someperyshe verie soone as wormes and flies some continue verie long as Ceder trees the Crowe and the Heart by this reckonyng it cummeth to passe that this soule of the world which notwithstanding in these mens opinion is onely one and in number singulare and a lone may bee called partly dead and partly a liue All which how foolish false and repugnant they bee you see S. I see indeede and I agree with you in that you doe moste truely deny that there is one onely soule and that in number singulare of this whole world M. Yea farther beesides the reasons aboue recited wee will lastly alleage this
that spirite discribed as it were by a certaine wagging and moouing of himselfe and breathing foorth of a winde M. Bicause the signification of the presence and action of the Holy Ghost is expressed by thys moouing breathing like as in an other place the Doue was the signification of the presence of the same holy spirite Mathew the 3. chapter and 16. verse In an other place also the firie tongues were seales and signes of his operation and giftes ▪ Actes the 1. Chapter And in an other place also blowinge and breathinge out of the mouth Ihon the 20. Chapter and 22. verse Although the same Spirite of God which is GOD also is not a winde indeede howbeeit his woorking is signified and noted by this misterie of moouing breathing for hee is a quickninge Spirite and lyfe is specially knowne by wagginge and moouinge and discerned from death which is an euerlasting and senselesse quietnes of all thinges So that it is sufficiently declared by that kinde of the misterie to what end the spirit of God was present and also what hee did to wit hee gaue force vnto thinges S. But why did that spirite remaine vppon the vppermost face of the waters for asmuch as Moses sayde not that the water was created beefore and hee mighte also haue lyen in the middes of this mole and so haue warmed and susteyned the whole masse within as it were leauen or a fire M. That the water was created by God at one time with the first earth Moses declareth sufficiently when he addeth by and by and darkenesse was vpon the face of the deapths that is to saye vpon the mole of waters And these woordes doe declare that both those elements made but the mole of one bodye whiche truely at the firste was disordred consisted of them twaine togither herein ther can consist no doubt But why that force and spirite of GOD did specially appeare in the top of the waters that is to say of the whole mole and not in the bottom or middes the reason is this not that it did not pearce also vnto the very deapthes but susteined onely the vppermost face of the mole for the Spirite of God reached at that time euen vnto Hell. Psalme 139. the 5. verse filled also with his power and went throughout euery parte of this mole were it neuer so secret hiddē but forasmuch as it pleased God that all these thinges shoulde so bee extant and doone to the ende his power shoulde bee manifest open and easie to bee knowne not hid and couered ▪ it was behouefull that his misterie and tokens should appeare and showe themselues in the vppermoste parte and openly not in the bottome of the whole mole or in the middest thereof that is to saye in secrete and out of fight Moreouer it was necessarie that the same spirite shoulde compasse and nourish the whole mole and not one parte onely whiche came to passe by the houering and moouing of the same Spirite about the whole mole S. Why doth hee call them earth water and heauen whiche were not yet distinct by that name or separated by their proper natures for they were so called the daies followyng after that these thinges were diuided one from another M. As for heauen God had made it at that time and it was called heauen but the Etymon and cause of the name is vnderstoode by the latter woorkes whiche was the stretching foorth and the woorkmanship of the second day And thus are thei termed heauen and earth by anticipation leste if these bodies were signified by no names the thinge it self could not bee declared Beesides this inasmuch as these thinges are also afterward called by their owne proper names it is a signe that there is none other substance added vntoo them but the same reteined which was in them when as yet they were confused but onely beautie added whereby they were dinstinguished from other thinges of diuerse kindes and also made more beautifull in themselues S. What doe you allowe and renue the opinion of Anaxagoras who thincketh that in the beeginninge all things were mingled togither and that euery thing was made one of an other and termeth the firste beginninge of all thinges but a distinction and separation out of a certain confused heape wherin they were beefore M. No not so for I doe not saye that within the same mole of earth whereof I doe now dispute there were hidden and buried trees alreadye framed men fourmed or cattell and beastes shapen and that they were couered and infoulded within certeine plightes and fouldes and so were extant as Anaxagoras thought but Moses confuteth this who sheweth that those things which were brought forth the daies following were made and not onely seuered neither taken and separated as it were out of a certeine heape and stoarehouse of all thinges Howebeeit I maye truely saye with Sainct Augustine that the seedes of all thinges were at the first yea and that throughly infused into that first matter which seedes were not diuerse from the substance of the earth and yet laye hidden within the bowels thereof but the earth beeing made apt by the woorde and woorking of the Spirite did afterwarde bringe foorth those thinges which it pleased God shoulde bee in the worlde To conclude howe shoulde wee bringe in this Anaxagoras confusion since wee reade so playnely in the holy Scripture that the matter of heauenly thinges is diuerse and separated from the matter of earthly thinges And as I suppose that heauen which as it is written God made the fyrst daye when he made the earth was the matter of all heauenly thinges The xxvi Chapter Of the matter of heauenly thinges that are visible S. BUT what shall wee thynke of that fyrst Heauen whiche was the matter of heauenly thinges M. That it was not this place whiche is called the aire or this open spreadyng abroade whiche was created the seconde daie Genesis the 1. chapter and 8. verse but rather that the matter of heauenly thynges was by God prepared whiche by a generall name is called heauen S. What maner of thyng was that heauen whiche you call the matter of heauenly thynges M. Uerely firste it was obscure and darcke although it were made of a moste subtile and fine substaunce but vnshapen and disorder not trimme to sight nor separated by space or distaunce of place from the mole of earth and water as it appeareth in the 1. Chapter of Genesis and 6. verse but was as yet neere vnto it and touched it S. What was it needfull also that the heauenly matter should bee stieped in the water as the earthly was to the ende that the heauēly bodies should afterward bee made thereof M. Fie for shame Wee read not that those heauenly bodies to wit the Sunne the Moone the starres and all that whiche is called the region of heauen whiche God hath placed aboue the elementes were so made out of heauen as the earthly were made out of the
one out of holy Scripture as the strongest of them al. To wit that by this meanes the goodnes and wisedome of God who giueth vnto euery thing and ingraffeth within them their proper and distincte vertues is not only obscured but vtterly extinguished and plucked out of mennes mindes whiles wee attribute these vertues the administration and gouernment of those thinges not vnto GOD hymselfe but vnto a certaine other nature and soule contrarie to that whiche wee are taught too beeleeue and confesse Psalme 147. and 15. and 16. verses To the Ephesians the 3. chapter verse 20. and Iob the viii chapter the 5. verse S. If then there bee not one certeine soule of this whole vniuersalitie as you teache truely the opinion of the Stoikes Platonikes and of certeine other Philosophers and likewise of the Priscillianist Heretikes is ouerthrowen who say that this worlde is a liuyng creature and indued with will and reason M. You gather wel For their opinion is altogether foolish and vnreasonable For since that is only a liuyng creature and so to bee called whose partes and members are not conteined only in one continuall compas of the bodie but also gouerned by one spirite verely this worlde is not a liuyng creature For the mēbers thereof are disioyned and separate As for the auctoritie of the Stoikes and other Philosophers which you named erewhile it should mooue vs verie little had not S. Augustine sometyme written that hee doubted whether this worlde were a liuyng creature or not whiche thyng as hee would not deny so durst hee not affirme whose doubt notwithstandyng we ought not to followe or allowe of The xv Chapter That this world was made in tyme and is not eternall S. BUt I aske you this question whether this world beegan sometime to bee or whether it were alwayes and bee eternall M. Many argumentes doe prooue that the world once beegan to bee among whiche all Philo in his booke De Mundo of the worlde hath gathered fiue speciall ones We wil declare ours and those whiche bee most Christian S. Whiche be they M. These foure First the voyce and auctoritie of the diuine Scripture whiche speaketh in this maner In the beeginnyng God made heauen and earth Genesis the 1. chapter and 1. verse The second reason is certeine For if the world were coeternall with GOD it selfe also were God for eternitie is not only proper to diuine nature but also the most it selfe substance therof and the principall part and definition Exodus the 2. chapt and 14. verse Reuelat. the 1. chap. and 8. verse The thirde that forasmuch as this world shall haue an ende and euery thing hath meanes whereby it doth consist it followeth necessarily that it had a beeginnyng of beeyng For although that bee truely sayde not whatsoeuer had a beeginnyng shall haue an ende forasmuche as there bee many thinges made which through the singulare benefite of God are not subiect to death and corruption as Angels and the soules of men whiche are immortall notwithstandyng it is moste certeinly affirmed that whatsoeuer shall haue an ende the same also had beeginnyng of beeing Which Rule is so generall that it admitteth no exception Finally the fourth is this that not onely the causes of the creation of the worlde are set downe and also the certeine tyme noted but also for the preseruation of the perpetuall memory therof there are certeine spaces of tyme prescribed as the order of weekes doe plainly teache and also the space of fiftie yeares which is called by the Hebrues the yere of Iubile whiche God hymself commaunded to bee obserue whereby wee might easely knowe and vnderstande how many ages are past since the first beeginning of the world S. Concerning that auctority whiche you alleage out of the Scripture and the 1. chapter of Genesis some doe otherwise interprete it They graunte that all these things indeede were made in the beeginnyng but not in tyme For the meaning and signification of a beeginnyng or of this woord principium is manifolde and in that place they saye it must not bee vnderstoode of the beeginning of tyme. M. The signification of a beeginnyng or of this woord principium is threefold For it respecteth either the time either the thing the causes or else the order The beginnynge of time in those things which are brought forth in a certein time is that moment of an houre either wherein they are conceiued or are brought foorth into the world Those thinges haue onely the beeginnyng of tyme which are doone in tyme That which is called the beginning of a thing and is taken for the cause in those thinges which are of one age and time is that relation and affection whereby one thyng is the cause of the beeing of another So if wee make a conference beetweene the day and the night wee saye that the Sun is the beeginning of the daye and light although both of them do appeere vnto vs at one moment Sutch a beeginning a diuerse or certeine time doth not establish Finally a beeginnyng in respect of order is called that which ministreth the beeginnyng of numbryng in sutch thinges as are disposed in one order as for example The father is the beginning among the three persons in trinitie which are one god y magistrate is one amōg many of like auctoritie with whō in telling we do begin like as we do with our cheif Magistrate or Judge in this our Citie of Geneua S. In this respect then they woulde haue God to bee the beginninge of this worlde as beeinge the cause and woorkeman therof as hee that is first numbred is called the beginninge M. Marke howe absurde this is Firste what shall bee the sence and meaning of this saying In the beeginnyng God made heauen and earth if so be they wil thus expound it God in the beeginnyng that is to saye God in God created heauen and earth Moreouer why saide hee did create which woorde doth not onely determine a beginning of beeing but also the force of woorking and a determinate beeginning of time is therein manifestly comprehended and included Beesides will wee nill wee by this reason we shal fall into that damnable heresie of the Hermogenians who make the woorke to bee eternall with the woorkeman and so wee muste needes make moe Gods than one Of which errour me thinketh I shoulde speake sumwhat more at large were it not that Tertullian longe science had vtterly ouerthrowne it in a whole woorke yea the Scripture it selfe doth manifestly expounde this sayinge of Moses of the beeginning of time Prouerbes the 8. Chap. and verses 25. 27. and 28. Hee vseth also the same woords and the same comparison whē hee speaketh of the beginninge of the worlde wherein there muste needes bee vnderstood a beginning and moment of tyme and of beeing Neither can that which S. Paule repeateth so often speakinge of the beginning of the world bee vnderstoode of the laying of the foundations thereof to the Ephesi the 1. Chapter and
proper and naturall force and signification of this woorde Create For in the 43. chap. and 13. verse of Isay the Lorde calleth himselfe the creatour of Israell which people notwithstandinge are knowne to haue beene borne of seede And againe in in the 65. Chapter and 18. verse of the same Prophet he saith Beeholde I create Hierusalem Whiche place whether it bee vnderstoode of the citizens or of the citie it selfe it is certayne that God made neyther of them without seede or matter but the men of the one and the Citie of the other For this woorde Barah is vsed in both places so that I am of opinion that wee ought not to sticke to religiously or percisely to the interpretation of one poore woorde Likewise they alleage this saying of the same Prophete Beeholde I create a newe heauen and a newe earth When as indeede the Lorde will onely renue these bodyes which nowe are heauen and earth and not make theÌ„ again of nothing M. It is writen in Isay as you say But these places doe plainly confirme mine opinion much lesse confute it For the woorde create is taken Metaphorically and wrested a litle from the proper significatioÌ„ wherby the power of God may appeare the greater more excellent in restoringe his people and holy Citie beesides al hope and other thinges beesides all ordinarie meanes For lyke as the thinges that are created are beesides the course of nature made of nothinge so likewise bycause the Lord promiseth that hee will restore and renue his people and Citie hee vseth properly the woorde of creating for that this which the Lord will woorke is as it were a new creation and a certayne wonÌ„derfull bringing foorth and generation out of nothinge Althoughe I will not deney but that the signification of this word Barah is ofteÌ„times translated and vsed more largely as when it is sayd Create a cleane hart within mee O God the 51. Psalme and 12. verse and againe The seat of the frowarde createth iniquitie Psalme 94. and 20. verse Of this sayinge and opinion of Sainct Augustine that I maye saye so much by the licence of so woorthy a man I doe not well alowe Who in his first booke against the aduersaries of the lawe and the Prophetes the 23 chap writeth thus And when there is anye difference made beetweene makinge and creatinge this maye bee the oddes beetwene those two woordes as I sayde that that is made which beefore was not at all and that created which is ordeyned of sumthinge that was beefore Hee distinguished those two woordes Make and Creat toto subtily whiche oftentimes are vsed one for an other S. How then should it bee M. Thus the Scripture plainly defineth to wit that God is the creatour of the world that is to say of all thinges that are who made framed brought foorth them all out of nothing and not out of any matter preexisting or made to his hande or whiche is coeternall with God himself or ministred vnto him by some other woorking God as the Manichees doe suppose For that opinion induceth two Goddes and in making twayne it leaueth none For either there is no God or there is but one Finally as saith S. Ambrose God should bee onely the diuiser of the figure and not the maker of Nature and hee had founde and receiued more than hee had made if there had bin any matter readie to his hande S. But there bee some that saie that this matter is signified in the scripture by this woorde Tohu where vpon afterward the Grecians and the Philosophers who receiued those thinges first of the Hebrues and of the Phenicians neere borderers to the Hebrues whiche thei haue written concernyng the beeginnyng of the worlde thei deuised this woorde Hyle by a small alteration of certein letters made according to the vse and proprietie of their tongue For this woorde Hyle saiethei signifieth among the Grecians as muche as a rude heape vnformed and as it were a certein moiste and waterishe yearth or quagmire or dregges out of whiche many thinges are engendred through the force of the heate whiche commeth vnto it From the whiche woorde Hyle is the woorde Hilys deriued which signifieth dregges and froath that is to saye a dirtie and moyst earth out of whiche many thinges doe growe in the Sea. M. I doubted not but those that goe about to defend the same errour of theirs concerning a firste matter pre-existing as though it were verie necessarie and they that haue throughly receiued the same doe deuise many suche foolishe fantasies But how small or none at all the affinity of these two woordes is Tohu and Hyle in writing of the Letters or rather how farre this is from the trueth your selfe doe see and it shall not bee needefull to seeke farther forasmuch as God is openly called the creatour of heauen and earth S. Yea God is termed Gosâ—he Ioâ—ser that is to say the maker and the fourmer as it is written in Isay the 66. chapt and 10. verse and Iob the 35. chap. and 10. verse and Isay the 54. chap. 8. verse as also in the 90. Psalme the 2. verse M. That was doone not rashly nor in vaine but to the intent to take awaye sutch errours as the spirite of God foresawe would grow afterward amongst men For there are twoo errours among men concernyng the beeginning of all thinges beesides the errour of the materiare heretikes For some thinke that first and alwaies there was existing a certein whole masse and that rude and confused whiche was the heape of all the principall partes and thinges of the worlde whiche now are existing and fourmed but then disorderly mingled togither which they call Chaos And this opinion Hesiodus folowed in his Theogonia whiche Ouid describeth in his Metamorphosis in these wordes Beefore the sea and lande were made the heauen that all doth hide In all the worlde one onely face of nature did abyde Whiche Chaos hight an huge rude heape and nothinge else but eeuen An heauie lumpe and clottred clod of feedes togither driuen Of thinges at strife amonge themselues for want of order due No sunne as yet with lightsome beames the shapelesse worlde did viewe c. This muche therefore they doe attribute vnto God that hee is the distinguisher trimmer and setter foorth of this so confused a Chaos mole and heape and not the creatour of it in time giuinge vnto it the first meanes of beeinge And therefore the Poet sayde There was as it were from euerlasting and not the same Chaos was made and created by god And for this cause they doe not call God the Creatour of the world but onely the beutifier and as Sainct Ambrose sayeth the deuiser of the shape and fourme thereof as though hee hadde giuen a certeine comlinesse and order vnto thinges that existed before and which had of themselues their owne proper strength and nature whiche hee accomplished by a certaine wise and apt distinction of them and by separating
not any small thyng or imagination in mynde rather than in mole of bodie comprehensible but that it was that huge mole and globe whiche beyng afterwarde diuided into partes conteined this earth whiche wee goe vppon and the great sea whiche wee sayle vpon They imagine of the first matter as if it were some thin and flittring shadow and altogither without forme which can not bee For a thing that existeth can not bee without all forme and what soeuer is without fourme is nothing and therefore is not at all Of whiche it is thus written in the boke against the foundations and groundes of the Manichees Epistles the 29. chapter A certeine vnshapen matter without fourme without qualitie without measure without number without weight without order and distinction a certaine confused thinge I wote not what and wholy without all qualitie Whereof it commeth that certaine Greeke Doctours doe call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to saye without qualitie But Sainct Augustine mocketh at this opinion The second is that there cannot be one first matter cōmune vnto all thinges visible held and established but there muste bee diuerse to wit one of heauenly things which is heauen the other of earthly thinges which are the earth and the water whiche is both comprehended with it in one body and created also at the same time to soften the earth which three thinges were first made of nothinge S. But what are those deapthes and pooles M. Euen the same plainly which afterward is called the sea but y Grecians terme it Abyssus the Hebrues Tehom And it is called Abyssus the deapthes bycause so great Pooles collections togither of waters are without bottome so farre as may bee knowne felte or vnderstoode so wide and deepe they are But it is called Tehom bycause it is mooued with an horrible noyse and terrible roaring insomuch as it swelleth and ebbeth and floweth of it owne nature and neuer standeth still S. But this is the question whether those deapthes and moles of water were mingled with the earth within in the veines and hollowe passeges there of or onely abidinge vpon the vppermost face of the earth if you say that it couered onely the vppermost face the mole of the earth beeing so big as it is could not by meanes thereof wax soft but if it were mingled with the earth you shall both make the Chaos more horrible and better conceiue the melting and softeninge of that harde nature and element For as I suppose you doe not agree with those who are of opinion that those deapthes of waters were only a thinand rare cloud whiche couered the earth whereof Sainct Augustine maketh reporte M. Indeede I doe not agree with them neither doe I doubt but that by anye of both those meanes whiche you haue declared the Chaos maye bee showed and thought to bee great and horrible whether the deapthes of water bee mingled with the earth or onelye abiding vpon the vppermost part of it Neither can it bee doubted but that y body of the earth being ouerflowen and compassed with so many so great waters was then sufficiently infused and soked Notwithstanding to the ende I maye declare what seemeth to mee may bee determined in this question out of the woorde of God I will alleage that whiche is written in the 104. Psal and 6. verse where speaking of the earth it saith thus Thou coueredst it with the pooles like as with a garment so that euery part of the deapthes and waters were not mingled with euery part of the earth as they supose but the whole mole of waters compassed the whole body of the earth and flected vpon the vppermost face therof As afterward it came to passe in the diluge in the tyme of Noe. Of which opinion this is also a reason that when the Spirite of God and the darkenesse lay vpon that vnshapē mole it is not written that they laye vpon the earth it selfe but vppon the vpper parte of the waters and pooles so that it plainely apeareth that the earth was included couered with those deapthes pooles Moreouer when as the thirde daye the deapthes were separated from the earth the waters were onely gathered togither frō that compassyng spreading abroad vpon the earth but is not saide that the waters were wron̄g out of the earth as out of a spunge which thē was also needefull to haue beene done The. xxiiii Chapter Why there was darknesse vpon the face of the same mole and matter S. BUt why was there darkenesse vppon the face of the same confused mole and matter M. Uerely to the intent that the infinite vertue wisedome and power of the true God might thereby the more plainly appeere who out of so confused a male and so many impediments concurring hath so soone and by his so greate force brought foorth so beautifull an order of all thinges yea when there was no meane at all existing but rather the cōtrarie to distinguishe and set foorth the same with all as S. Paule sheweth in the 2. too the Corinthians the 4. chapter and 6. verse for all thinges are wount to bee distinguished in the light Wherfore beesides the confusion of the mole darkenesse also was an impedimēt vnto god How then did God woorke and distinguishe these thinges when there was darkenesse Doubtlesse by his greate and almightie power For the darkenesse specially augmenteth the horrour of so greate a confusion and doth cause that the distinguishing and diuiding of these thinges seemeth to bee a woorke altogether impossible For if so bee that vnto that which is confused and intricate darkenesse also bee added all hope and meanes of opening and cleering the same is taken away that whosoeuer shall diuise in his minde the meanes whiche the Lord toooke first in hande to create distinguish this world by the same may cause it not onely to seeme to bee a woorke full of difficulty but also of great impossibilitie And whosoeuer shall behold the beautie and fourme of the world as it is now distingushed will iudge that this woorke was framed and made of principles and partes very wel digested and ordered and that there was light first beefore there was any other thing made S. Is there any iniury doone vnto God who being most wise most good most perfect most beautifull is sayde notwithstanding too haue created this first matter so confused who both could and as it seemeth ought euen in the very beeginning and at the firste moment haue made it distinct and beautifull M. Uerely the Manichees were deceiued in thinking so vnaduisedly and marking so fondly Yea and the Valentinians also their Patriarkes for this cause were deceiued For beeing led by their owne wicked thoughtes in this kinde of argument they sayd that this world and the first beginning therof were the matter fruite and effect of a certein foule imperfection ignorance in God and not the woorke of a wise God or woorkman whiche can not bee read without horrour
and trembling Against whom Father Ireneus writeth cloquently and sharply in his 2. booke and 3. chap. But now that I may answere and alleage that which belongeth to this question I say that the Lorde who made all thinges to the intent hee might make the ritches of his glorie and power knowne would specially reueale hymself in creatyng the world by this meanes and maner and by vsing the same to that purpose Wherefore like as it was the parte of a moste wise God to finde out and choose the way that he thought most conuenient to reueale himselfe so is it likewise our duetie too allowe reuerence and adore the same that hee hath chosen For faithe ought to bee the rule and leader of our mindes to vnderstande these woorkes of God by whiche vnlesse wee followe wee shall conceiue nothing holsomly or profitably in all this whole woorke of God bee it neuer so wide and beautifull For as it is writen in the 11. chapt and 3. verse to the Hebrues By faith we vnderstand that the world was made And therefore wee ought not to followe the reason of our owne braines in defining these matters S. But doth not this mention whiche is made of darkenesse which was spread ouer the first matter coÌ„firme Aristotles opinion concerning priuation whiche hee maketh to bee the thirde beeginning of all naturall thinges in his 1. booke of Physikes Fye awaye with this Priuation as a dreame or dotage in respect of a beeginning of the world For how can a Priuation whiche is nothing bee called the cause of a thing as though a man would defend that fyre were the cause of cold Moreouer Aristotles PriuatioÌ„ sticketh fast infused in the matter but the darknesse whereof Moses speaketh was without the bodie of the matter and brought no commoditie to the taking of a fourme which Aristotles priuation doth yea the darkenesse rather tooke away al hope of receiuing fourme so that Aristotles opinion is quite repugnant to Moses The xxv Chapcer Why the spirite of God was vpon this mole and matter S. YOu haue discoursed of the firste matter of this world and of the wouÌ„derful confusion therof or as I may call it troubling togither declare now why Moses speaketh of the spirite of God. M. For many causes specially for three Firste that the creation of the world might bee vnderstoode not only to bee the woorke of the Father and of the Sunne but also of the holy ghost who is likewise in person distinct from them twaine Howbeit if wee consider more narrowly of the woord The spirit of GOD noteth vnto vs in that place not the third person in Trinitie whiche is infinite and comprehended in no place but onely a certein effect and power and presence which reuealed and manifested it selfe there But it is coÌ„mon in the scripture that the giftes and tokens of the holy Ghoste are taken for the holy Ghoste himselfe and when they are recited hee likewise is vnderstoode to bee there by his owne special meanes as appeareth in the 3. chap. of S. Matthewe because wee cannot know hym any other way than through those his effectes and giftes Whererefore the Spirite of God had also his owne proper function and office openly and distinctly in the creation of this world Secondly that wee might know by what power and spirite that first mole whiche was so greate was at the beeginning susteined and helde vp Truely not of it self neither by the waters that were round about it neither by the darknesse that was vppon it whiche rather couered that firste matter whiche was now a growing as it were in a wombe and made it an vntimely fruite but by the almightie spirite of God whiche susteineth and quickneth all thinges by his diuine power by whom that huge and vnprofitable mole of earth and water subsisted flourished was quickned was susteined was reteined and as I may saye made aliue to the ende wee should ascribe all these thinges and their vertues onely to the glorie of God. S. How prooue you that M. For that all thynges at this present doe subsiste and are susteined by the spirite of God although now thei haue gotten their peculiare force and nature and yet were not destitute thereof at that tyme as it is written in the 146. Psalme and 5. verse and the 139. and 7. verse Likewise in the 1. to Timothe the 6. Chapter and 13. verse and Actes the 1. chapter the 28. verse S. What is the third reason M. To the ende it might bee the better declared by what meanes moouing and proceeding all thinges were by God drawne foorth and framed out of that firste matter and mole Euen as wee see at this day that the firste Seeâ—es of thinges after that once they bee sowne by Gods power are not onely susteined but also nourished quickned and made warme and so doe burgein and sendfoorth that bodie which naturally they conteined with in theÌ„ so was it in y first matter of all thinges so that the same Spirite by his power did susteine and nourishe the first seedes of thinges and now also continually mooueth the same howbeit that same action was then more manifestly declared in that there was not as yet any ordinarie vertue of engendring or bringing foorth engraffed into things by the word of God for that was giuen afterwarde And therefore the spirite of GOD manifested himself mightily in those thinges and nourished that mole Whiche thing Moses also teacheth plainly in that kind of phrase which hee vseth S. Expounde your saying more euidently M. Moses woordes do not onely signifie this which I say but plainely declare it S. What woordes bee they M. These that folowe and the spirite of God mooued itselfe vppon the top of the waters S. What is the meaning of those woordes M. To wit that the Spirite of God had giuen a lyuely force vnto that greate mole not onely by whiche it should exist susteine and as it were beare vp it selfe but also that it ingraffed engendred raised vp in it a â—ertâ—uâ—e vertue where by it should afterwarde waxe hot as it were to conceiue and to bringe foorth For the Hebrue woorde Merachephet signifieth both those thinges not onely I saye to susteine and mooue but also to nourish as birdes do nourish their youÌ„g ous also to giue force to wax warme to moue it self Deuteron the 32. chapter and 11. verse which Sainet Paule seemeth to translate to cherish to y Ephesians y 5. chapter and 29. verse Likewyse as the same Spirite of GOD is sayde in the 139. and 7. verse to woorke and to bee sent foorth to the intent that at thys present also things may bee ingeÌ„dered brought foorth Who if hee shoulde cease or bee taken away nothing would grow although the seedes of theÌ„ were sowne and men labored and toyled all that they coulde but woulde lye choaked within the bowels of the earth wombes of their mothers S. But why is the action and woorking of