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A00759 A defence of the liturgie of the Church of England, or, Booke of common prayer In a dialogue betweene Nouatus and Irenæus. By Ambrose Fisher, sometimes of Trinitie Colledge in Cambridge. Fisher, Ambrose, d. 1617.; Grant, John, fl. 1630. 1630 (1630) STC 10885; ESTC S122214 157,602 344

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but rather to Faith in the Acts to Repentance in Marke to the putting away of the filth of the flesh in Peter I. Tell mee I pray you by whom are these three things wrought N. By the Spirit of God I. And what relation hath the Spirit to Baptisme N. It is the essentiall inward forme thereof whereby the water is assumed as the manhood by Christs God-head I. If that were true why doe you separate the forme from the matter which God hath conioyned But I must here aduertise you that you sticke in a vulgar errour For I demand Is a Sacrament a thing simple or else compounded N. It is compounded of a thing earthly and a thing heauenly I. What is that heauenly thing N. The Spirit of God which purgeth our sinfull soules as water doth our vncleane bodies I. Then obserue this argument Those things of which a thing is compounded are the matter thereof but of water and the holy Spirit Arist Phys lib. 2 cap. 3. Met. lib. 1 cap. 3. lib. 4. cap. 2. Baptisme is compounded these therefore are the matter thereof N. What then doe you make the forme of Baptisme I. The vnion of the Water and the Spirit as the vnion of Christ his Deitie and Humanitie is the forme of his Person And as the vnion of the soule and bodie is the forme of man And this to bee true you might haue learned by Athanasius Creed the matter whereof you Obserue by this that most heresies in diuinitie do proceed from errours in Logique and Philosophie could not before disallow The wordes are these For as the reasonable Soule and flesh is one man So God and man is one Christ By this you may obserue That the Spirit is not disioyned from the water in Baptisme considering they both concurre to make the matter thereof N. But wee cannot be assured that the Spirit doth alwayes concurre with the water howsoeuer you do confidently auouch that Children In the rubrick of Confirmation before the beginning of the Catechisme being baptized haue all things necessary for their Saluation and be vndoubtedly saued Touchinh the former clause thereof I intreate you now to be silent because I will obiect it in Confirmation I. The latter clause then needes little defence For seeing Baptisme is the ordinarie meanes of saluation why should wee causelesly doubt of their Saluation which haue beene made partakers thereof For not only Charitie but euen Equitie forbids vs to doubt N. Yea but some scruple remaineth because we want the certaintie of infallibilitie I. That certaintie is needlesse in our ordinary censures of other mens eternall state For where prudence vpon necessitie doth not weigh down the ballance Charitie must heaue it vp and according to the Law fauours must be inlarged And now let me admonish you of the like cauill made against the words in our Liturgie in the Buriall which are these In sure and certaine hope of resurrection to eternall life By which wee doe not imply a certaintie of infallibilitie but of equitie alone For although persons bee baptized yet if they bee excommunicated or other wayes hainous Malefactors wee denie them the vse of Christian Buriall Forasmuch as by the rule of prudence wee presume not to speake of them in that manner N. Of your Popish Superstitions in Buriall wee shall treate in due place Now against your Scriptures brought for the necessitie of Baptisme although I might except against these words in Genesis shall be cut off from his people as being meant of Temporall Death not of Eternall Damnation yet because I finde some of our owne men so to expound it also I will omit it and come to my second exception which is this You pretend that Baptisme is before Faith whereas both in Marke and the Acts it is set in the latter Acts 8. 37. place Yea and Philip requireth faith of the Eunuch before hee would admit him to Baptisme I. We denie not but in men of yeares faith may come before Baptisme N. By Faith alone wee are saued what need then of Baptisme I. If you speake of absolute necessitie God could haue saued vs not only without Baptisme but euen without faith yea euen without Christ For if hee had giuen vs immutable grace before our fall Christ's death should not haue beene necessarie and so faith had beene void and consequently Baptisme But if you intend a conditionall necessitie in regard of God's Decree it will appeare that Christ's death was an efficient cause howbeit not the principall for that was God's loue but a working Iohn 3. 16. meritorious cause As also that faith is an instrument actiue and Baptisme passiue applying to vs the merits of Christ's death Againe whereas you say that wee are saued by faith alone Doe you imagine that faith may bee void of good workes N. I detest that Poperie But what is this to Baptisme I. Is it not a good worke and fruit of faith to seeke for externall Baptisme N. Yet by this it is manifest that Baptisme succeedeth faith which contradicteth your assertion I. Though Baptisme do only confirme faith in men of yeares is it therefore needlesse to Saluation But yet Infants faith is apparantly concurrent with Baptisme by which it is begotten For as Infants may be elected by Predestination and also may be comprehended in the Couenant and faith of Parents So withall there must be required in them the Spirit of God which shall worke analogicall faith or the Seed-plot thereof from which at the time of effectuall Vocation or Conuersion shall issue the seasonable fruits of Sanctification N. My third exception against your Scriptures is this Whereas it is said He that shall beleeue and be baptized shall be saued it is immediately added He that shall not beleeue shall be condemned So that Baptisme is omitted as no necessarie meanes of saluation I. Your proofes are taken from silent witnesses which cannot bee of force In this manner Baptisme is not mentioned as needfull and therefore is not needfull N. Yet according to the rules of discretion Baptisme should be named aswell in the negatiue as in the positiue I. By the same rule what is largely set downe in the former is vnderstood in the latter because it is presupposed that no heartie beleeuer will neglect Baptisme N. Besides these exceptions against the texts by you alledged wee haue other reasons to disproue the necessitie of Baptisme As first many Persons Circumcised and Baptized haue yet failed of eternall life And therefore it seemeth that these are not necessary meanes of saluation I. Many that haue had sufficient cold and drought in their bodies haue yet died of grieuous diseases and therefore these qualities are not meanes of life N. Heate and moysture must also concurre or else these are insufficient I. So the Spirit must concurre with Water or else it is not auailable For though the Spirit be not tied to Meanes yet may we not vilifie the meanes as vneffectuall or moue
belonging to the liuing we come to the Buriall of the Dead wherein wee dislike the Person Manner and Place Touching the first we maruell that you make Buriall a Ministeriall Dutie seeing the Law prohibiteth the Priests to defile themselues by the e Leuit. 21. 1. Dead I. You were lately displeased because we vsed Purification being Iewish And now you would haue vs vse the Iewish manner of Buriall Wee like not this that with the same breath you blow both hot and f Reclusis illud hoc clausis Lahijs cold Againe tell I pray you what meane you by that defiled with the Dead N. It seemeth that g Leuit. 21. 3 4. lamentation is thereby meant I. Where is then your Argument The Priest may not lament for the Dead He may not therefore be present at Burials to comfort them that lament with his deuout exhortations and prayers N. We reade not that the Priests did burie any man and therefore to make this their office is against Scripture I. It is not against but besides Scripture were it as you pretend But the truth is we doe not appoint the Priest to burie that act being in a manner meerely ciuill but only to assist the Funerall for the comfort and instruction of the liuing N. The manner of your Burials doth also displease vs Forasmuch as you vse sundrie Prayers therein which seeme to fauour the Popish Purgatorie I. The Dumbe Shewes of Other Churches though wee condemne not yet wee cannot suppose that they containe so much reuerence and deuotion as our custome doth As for the Purgatorie you mention it is a forgerie of your owne Iealousie considering wee pray for nothing in the behalfe of the Dead saue only that wee seeme to be in good hope of their ioyfull resurrection of which matter wee treated in Baptisme N. Yea but Prayers being rehearsed at the Graue haue some smell of Superstition I. Were you as quicke-sented as the Vultures of Romulus yet could no such sauour bee here felt forasmuch as our Prayers being in the mother tongue are discerned by the meanest auditor to containe nothing but matter of consolation and hope to the liuing N. Funerall Sermons are of the same branne and therefore iustly abrogated in the Reformed Churches N. If those Sermons containe flatterie or errour wee may not defend them But if they be replenished with hopefull and consolatorie doctrines we doubt not to thinke them to bee of that nature of which was the famous lamentation of Dauid made for his King h 2. Sam. 1. 17. and his Friend Or of which were those worthy Orations i The Funerall Orations of Basill and Gregorie Funerall which deserue to bee written in Plates of gold celebrated in all antiquitie And certainly if a Word in Place k Prou. 25 11. and l Prou 15. 23. Time bee so precious If wee bee commanded to preach in m 2. Tim 4. 2. Season Can any Sermon be more seasonable then when God's iudgements concurre with his word when the sense of mortalitie doth kindle deuotion and griefe quickneth Charitie Thinke you that when the men of Iabesh fasted n 1. Sam. 31. 13 seuen dayes at the buriall of Saul and his sonnes and when Mary wept at the Tombe of her o Iohn 11. 31. brother a Sermon would haue beene vnseasonable Suppose you that in all those seuen dayes before mentioned prayers were not mingled with their fasting As for the Reformed Churches wee censure them not neither may they condemne vs Forasmuch as the Strangers amongst vs being men of their owne Countrie and Discipline doe still retaine Funerall Sermons N. Wee are most offended with your Place of Buriall which is the Church or Church-yard wherein you seeme to place great holinesse I. Wee doe in some Cities allow men to be buried in a field set apart for that purpose N. But euen that field is reputed holy ground I. And that most iustly For did not Abraham refuse to be buried among the p Gen. 23. 6. 9. Hittites Did he not there buy a field for buriall wherevpon the Place was called Hebron Did not Iacob desire to be buried with q Gen. 49. 30. Abraham Ruth with r Ruth 1. 17. Naomi The old man with the ſ 1. King 13. 31 man of Iuda Did not the Pharises purchase a field for t Math. 27. 7. strangers called Acheldama a field of u Acts 1. 19. Bloud Is it not probable that the brethren of Ioseph desired to bee buried with him in x Acts 7. 16. Shichem Did not the men in the Primitiue Church desire to be buried neere the Martyrs by whose Tombes afterwards in the Halcionian dayes of Peace Oratories and Churches were built for the honour of Martyrdome not for the worship of Martyrs Are not the bodies of Saints departed still members of Christ being vnited to their soules not onely by the relatiue hope of the resurrection but euen by the vnion of Christ's Spirit And by what more liuely signe can we testifie or signifie this our beliefe then by interring them in or neere some Church where they may be reserued better then in the y Where the Kings of Egypt were buried Pyramides of Egypt till the second comming of CHRIST Finis Libri Primi THE SECOND BOOKE Of the New Liturgie CHAP. I. Of the Booke of TOBIT FRom the Old wee passe to your New Liturgie wherein you haue both added the Apocryphall Bookes to the the Canon And haue in sundry sorts depraued the Canonicall Text it selfe I. The Apocryphal The Booke of the Articles of Religion Article 6. Bookes as Hierome saith the Church doth reade for example of life and instruction of manners But yet doth it not apply them to establish any Doctrine N. Against the reading of these Bookes I thus argue Whatsoeuer is read in the Church ought to be Canonicall Scripture But these Bookes are Apocryphall not of the Canon Wee may not therefore be vrged to reade them in the Church I. First your conclusion strayeth from your reason like a bird from her nest It should haue beene thus framed They may not therefore be read in the Church You pretend as if you were vrged and inforced to reade them the ●ut● is if you did not delight in contention as the Viper that was pleased with the bloud of her owne tongue which shee grated against the file you might easily perceiue that the Booke leaueth it to your discretion whether you will read a Canonicall or an Apocryphall Chapter N. If we may not reade them then much lesse bee vrged to the reading of them So that my Conclusion was a Secondarie or Corollarie naturally following out of the proper conclusion of mine argument I. In the meane time you see that your oft complaints of vrging and hard vsage being both causelesse and respectlesse doe deserue to exasperate the State against you For many things ●o doubt had beene either altered or mitigated had
of Paul I. I might tell you how some coniecture that Paul wrote it in Syrian and that Clemens or Luke translated it into Greeke To let this passe If Moses were the Authour of Iob. How doth the stile differ from that in Deuteronomy If this bee but probable how doth the stile of the Canticles differ from that of the Prouerbs Will any man reading the two Epistles of Peter denie a diuersitie of stile N. But the Authour excludeth himselfe from the number of them which had m Heb. 2. 3. heard Christ I. Hee had not heard him when hee was aliue vpon the earth Againe he speaketh by a n A figure called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Figure numbring himselfe among the multitude as also doth Saint o 1. Pet. 4. 3. Peter N. Your errour in the honour which you ascribe to Marriage is double For you make it both an holy thing and a Sacrament The former appeareth First by this that you aske the Banes in the Church whereas Marriage belongeth to the Magistrate I. The Couenant of God may bee published by the Priest But such is p Prou. 2. 17. Marriage and therefore may by the Priest be promulgated N. How doe you explaine your Minor I. The Couenant which makes a wife is here called God's Couenant But such is q Mal. 2. 14. Marriage Marriage therefore is Gods Couenant Besides it is an Oath or Vow made in Gods presence N. An Oath may be tendred before a Magistrate And therefore Marriage in this respect may be but a ciuill action I. A Praier may be repeated before a Magistrate is it therefore ciuill N. Hee hath no iurisdiction in Prayer as bee hath ouer an Oath I. Is not prayer a good thing May not hee command you to doe that which is good Nay is not an oath a kind of prayer Againe I thus reason Where publique prayer is expedient that thing may be done in the Church But such is in Marriage And therefore in the Church it may bee celebrated And by consequent the Banes asked for the preuention of all fraud and couin The Minor thus appeareth As the action is so must bee the prayer thereto belonging But the action of Mariage is publike and therefore such must bee the Prayer thereto appertaining When I say it must be I meane it is most expedient I meane then it must be vpon conueniencie not vpon necessitie N. But God neuer commanded the Hebrew Priests to marrie the people at the Tabernacle or Temple I. It had been something laborious to haue brought all the people to bee married at the Temple of Ierusalem Neuerthelesse the Iewish r Rabbi Mose Ban Maimone in Cu●pa Rabbins tell vs that Marriage was celebrated in a Tent set vpon foure barres ouer against the Synagogue to which Tent ſ Psal 19. 5. Dauid t Ioel 2 16. Ioel and u Math. ●5 1. Luke 12. 36. Christ himselfe do allude and therefore it seemeth that the Priest did something intermeddle with these matters Whereupon both Pagans Turkes and Christians all with one consent in all Ages Countries and Sects haue reputed Marriage as a sacred thing and haue solemnized it with sundrie Ceremonies N. The second thing whereby you imitate the holinesse of Marriage is that you cause the parties to kneele before the Communion Table and withall insinuate as though it were fit to haue a Communion annexed to euery Marriage I. I know not what herein may offend you but onely that this Law is not put in execution as it were to be wished for these causes First That the parties might be put in minde of mingling spirituall with earthly ioy Secondly that they might bee aduertised touching the end of Matrimony which is the enlarging of the number of the Saints whose Communion is most liuely represented in the Lord's Supper Thirdly that they might bee effectually warned to remember the vnion of Christ and the Church his Spouse which is most plainly exhibited in the Sacrament N. By this last clause you declare that you make Matrimonie a Sacrament I. If that were true to what end should we ioine another Sacrament to it N. I will proue that you make Wedlocke a Sacrament both by the causes and by the signe The causes are the finall and formall The finall is set downe in these words of one of your Prayers which hast consecrated it to such a mysterie I. What will you proue hereby N. Two things First that by these words you create a new Sacrament Secondly that the words be arroneous Touching the first I thus reason That thing which is consecrated to such an excellent mysterie that in it is signified and represented the spirituall Marriage and Vnitie betweene Christ and his Church That thing is a Sacrament But such is the state of Matrimonie in your opinion among the Sacraments therefore to be reckoned I. Your Maior is mistaken in regard of the Consequence thereof For a thing may be consecrated to a mysterie eitherto apply it or to signifie it The former way both Water in Baptisme as also Bread and Wine in the Lords Supper are sanctified For they doe apply and conuay vnto vs the Spirit of God and consequently both Christ and his Father namely by the Vnion of Assistance In the latter sence Marriage is consecrated only to signifie the spirituall vnitie or vnion betweene Christ and his Church And this is the true cause why Matrimonie is no Sacrament as Baptisme and the Lord's Supper N. That the words be erroneous I thus proue That which was before the mysterie could not be consecrated to signifie the same But Marriage was before the mysterie of this vnion And therefore could not be so consecrated I. The Maior is like the verses of Dionysius which could not be corrected but by blotting of them all out Let your Maior be thus inuerted A thing must bee before it signifie and then it will bee true Were there not Lambes before the Passeouer Water before Baptisme Bread and Wine before the Lord's Supper Againe your Minor is vntrue For the Second Person in Trinitie was the Mediatour of the Church before the fall of man and consequently by order of nature though not of time was before Matrimonie I meane as it was a cause not as it was a thing signed For Relatiues are together in nature N. That which doth only signifie parabolically that cannot bee consecrated to signifie a mysterie vnlesse wee will imagine that euery Vine with the Branches and Head with the Members are so consecrated because they are so resembled by x John 15 1. Christ and the y 1 Cor. 12. 11. Apostle But Marriage doth only parabolically signifie this z Ephes 5. 32. mysterie Therefore we may not say that it is consecrated I. It seemeth by Saint Paul that he maketh more then a Parable thereof As before him both a Psal 45 t●tum Dauid and b In the Canticks Salomon yea and c Ezek 16. totum