Pages of ours wherein those words are asserted by the Quakers as their Opinion or forever stop his Mouth and be ashamed of Reviling and Abusing us as he hath done We doubt not but the Righteous God will rebuke his Malicious Envious Lying Spirit and manifestly abase him for his Perverting the Truth and Belying and Reviling the Servants of Christ as he has frequently done in his Writings Here follows a brief Collection of William Haworth 's Doctrines about which the Controversie between him and us Chiefly hath depended 1. OF the Body of Christ in Heaven That it is a Humane Natural Body of an Earthly Substance having the same Materiality Form and Figure and Shape ESSENTIAL to it that it had when here upon Earth Anim. p. 10 11. 7. 16. compared with Antid p. 6. Contrary to Phil. 3. 21. 1 Cor. 15. 44 45 46 47 48. 2. Yet in Contradiction That it is a very Glorious Body more bright then a Thousand Suns gloriously represented and painted out to us by Daniel and John in the Revelation 3. That Steven saw the Heavens opened and the Body of Christ yea Christ Iesus on the Right Hand of God with his Bodily or Carnal Eye from Acts 7. 55 56. See also Antid p. 6 12. compared with Animad p. 14 15. 4. That the Man Christ Iesus is not here on Earth as to his Spirit nor is or may his Soul or Spirit be so much as extended to the Saints upon Earth Antid p. 2 3. compared with Anim. p. 10. Yet in Contradiction to this by his own Expressions CHRIST hath alwayes been present with his Disciples in the Discharge of their Ministerial Gifts and will be to the End of the World by his Spirit The Vnion between Christ and his Church is mystical and spiritual not corporal and carnal as there is one Soul throughout the natural Body of Man the same in the Head and in every Member so one Spirit in Iesus Christ the Mystical Head and in every one of his Members the Saints 1 Cor. 6. 17. Animad p. 9. Christ is present BY HIS SPIRIT IN his Saints p. 30. And whoever hath not the Son hath not the Father p. 26. Note If he knew what he saith and were real in his Confession so as not to vary from it the Controversie in this would be at an End since Christ is confessed by both of us to be God and Man But further observe W. Haworth's Doctrines 5. That Infants are not Innocents but have the Guilt of Adam's Sin upon them pag. 21. Contrary to Ezek. 18. 20. Chap. 18. 15. Mat. 18. 3. 19. 14. Mark 10. 14. 6. That the Light within every one is nothing but Nature which is corrupt We are by Nature Children of Wrath p. 21. But in plain Contradiction This Light within is the Law of Moses written in the Heart that the Apostle he 's sure calls it Nature Rom. 2. 14. But now to Mark. come off how miserably soever he saith The Law of Moses in the Heart is the Work of the Law p. 22. Query But we ask were those Gentiles who did by Nature those things contained in the Law Children of Wrath by the Work of the Law in their Hearts contrary to plain Scripture Psal 19. 7. Rom. 2. 13 14. Now risum teneatis amici 7. That the Apostle saith of these Gentiles that had done by Nature the Things contained in the Law and had the Works of the Law written in their Hearts notwithstanding this they were unrighteous Sinners guilty c. as a natural Man doing Part of the Law by the meer Strength of Nature is nothing but Sin is a Child of Wrath in a damnable Condition no right Principle from whence he acts not a Dram of true Faith in Jesus Christ p. 22. Query What then was it or could it be corrupt sinful Nature by which those Gentiles mentioned Rom. 2. 14 15. did those things contained in the Law and were justified 8. That W. H. and his Brethren cannot dare not must not admit of any Thing no not so much as our Faith though it 's wrought in us by the Spirit into that Righteousness that justifies us in God's Sight p. 23. Contrary to plain Scripture Rom. 5. 1. 1 Cor. 6. 11. 9. He questions whether there be any Works done by the Spirit upon any of the Sons of Men except Christ but there still remains a Body of Sin in them Intimating that a Body of Sin still remains in them all Christ excepted Contrary to Rom. 6. 7. ver 18. Col. 2. 11. And contrary to his own Confessions viz. God works upon us by his Spirit to renew our evil Natures after his own Image p. 24. We confess that the Deity PERFECTS all Good in us c. p. 28. 10. That we are not justified by Works done in the Spirit as Abraham 's Works David 's Works c. p. 26. Contrary to Jam. 2. 21 24. 11. That David describes the Blessedness of the Ma◠unto whom God imputeth Righteousness without Works DONE BY THE SPIRIT Antid p. 18. Contrary to Psal 32. 2. 12. That Isaiah calls HIS observing Moses 's Law in THE SPIRIT filthy Rags in that Place Isa 64. 3. p. ibid. 13. That Paul 's delighting in the Law of God after the inward Man which was to keep it in THE SPIRIT he counted Loss for Christ when converted to Christ and this but his own Righteousness on Phil. 3. p. ibid. 14. To the Question Is it good Doctrine to say that Paul when a Christian counted his spiritual Obedience Loss and Dung for Christ W. Haworth answers ‖ This is the Man that pretends highly to esteem value the inward Work of the holy Spirit in the Hearts of Saints and his Renewings Comfortings Quickning◠c. p. 22. Yes very good sound blessed and comfortable Doctrine received by Millions of Saints in Heaven and Earth he addeth in Point of Justification Animad p. 27. Contrary to Rom. 8. 13. 6. 16. 16. 26. 2 Cor. 10. 5. 1 Pet. 1. 2. 14. 22. Heb. 5. 9. Acts 5. 32. Jer. 7. 23. Isaiah 1. 19. Deutr. 30. 14. Rom. 10. 8. 15. We are not justified by any Righteousness of ours done in the Spirit this he calls the Deeds of the Law contrary to Rom. 8. 1 2. 16. That our own Righteousness that which the Apostle Paul calls his own in Phil. 3. 9. is within us Inherint in our Souls it CONSITS in those Gifts and Vertues that the Spirit of God works in our Minds and we express those outwardly c. His proof for this Doctrine is viz. Faith is called your Faith Love is called your Love c. The Spirit works Faith in us See his Quaker Converted Epistle Dedicatory Observe See what an exposition is here made upon Paul's words about his own Righteousness which he desired not to have but counted it loss for Christ How horribly has this Man perverted this Scripture Phil. 3. 9. Those Gifts and
Ascention or being in Heaven W. H. thou art quite out Again that Change that we believe Christ Jesus to have had into a State of Glory which as the Son he had with the Father before the World began doth not at all deny Jesus of Nazareth to be the Messiah as most unjustly thou hast accused us both in thy Antidote and Animadversions p. 6. for it was the same Jesus that so prayed Father glorifie thy Son glorifie thou me with thine own self with the Glory which I had with thee before the World was John 17. 1. 5. yet it is a plain falshood to say that We suppose that the manhood as thou calls it that was taken of the Virgin is turned into an Immeâ—se iâ—finite being a Deity It was never our Supposition p. 6. that the meer â—lesh Blood that the Son took of the Virgin which was part of the same the Câ—ildren had became a Dâ—ity an Immense infinite being when thou wantest proof for thy Slanders against us thou must needs Invent and Forge suppositions meanings and absurd Consequences for us Oh! perverse Man is this to support thy Credit and Trade among thy Hearers to say we do suppâ—se that which never entred into our Hearts W. H. His Soul was in the Saints We may dispare at this rate ever by words to understand one another here 's Babel p. 8. Answ In Babel thou art who accusest and revilest us and drawest thy absurd Meanings upon us without understanding us shewing thy ignorant Confidence Of the Soul or Spirit of Christ we shall speak anon Against our saying He Christ had all Power in Heaven and Earth given him and therefore could descent at his pleasure and he promised to be with his Disciples alway to the End W. H Objects To Argue from Christ's Power to his will was never accounted strong or right Reasoning * But the learned and Zealous Protestants affirmed Christ's Spiritual presence with his Church in opposition to the Papists Doctrine of his Carnal presence in their Sacrament The Papists argued thus against the Martyrs for their Transubstantiation viz. God had Power to turn Bread into his natural Body Ergo p. 8. Ans A most gross perversion and abuse not only against us but against Christ's own Testimony whereby his WILL to be with his Disciples to the end of the World as well as his Power to come again unto them is signified And JESUS spake unto them saying ALL POWER is GIVEN unto me c. Lo I am with you alway even unto the end of the World Mat. 28. 18 20. But W. H. has denyed Jesus Christ to be here on Earth as he is Man that is either as to his Body or Spirit Antid p. 2 3. It is not a Corporal and carnal Vnion between Christ and his Members that we plead for that 's not the Controversie nor do we speak of the manhood being locally or Personally present with and in the Saints as he would Insinuate p. 9. But the spiritual presence of Christ Jesus according to his promise Mat. 28. 20. As the SON of God to whom all Powâ—r IS GIVEN according to his own sense And though our Adversary has denyed the Holy manhood of Christ even in the Spirituallity of it that is as to his Spirit to be on Earth in or with his Church yet hath he confessed that CHRIST is in the Saints by his Spirit Antid p. 5. And that Christ hath alway been present with his Disciples in the discharge of their ministerial Gifts and will be to the end of the World by HIS Spirit Animad p. 9. Where 's now the Controversie Is the heavenly Man Christ wholely separate from his Church and Members not only in Body but in Spirit also yea circumscribed in some place as far as the highest Heavens are supposed from the Earth Antid pag. 6. As a Man may be many Miles distant from his Wife c. Anim. p. 9. And yet this same Christ alway present with his Disciples And as there 's one Soul throughout the natural Body of man the same in the Head and in every Member so ONE Spirit in Jesus Christ the Mystical Head and in every one of his Members the Saints Anim. p. 9. Now if thiâ— man meant really as he speaks as to the spiritual Presence and Union of Christ Jesus with and in his Saints and Church on Earth and would lay aside his Enmity and Confusion and keep to Scripture-Language the Controversie between him and us would be at an end But in p. 10. he has framed a Dilemical Quarrel against the Spirit of Christ being in every Saint which he sayes we invest with the Office of the holy Ghost which he concludes cannot be so either with or without the Body nor yet extending from it in Heaven to every Saint upon Earth For that were to render the Soul of Christ immense iâ—finite and then there must be a new created God in time the Soul of Christ's Manhood was created in time Error is Crookedness Absurdity and Rottenness quoth W. H. And yet he saith The Saints ought to worship the Humane Nature of Christ in Vnion with the Deity Anti. p. 6 7. And that the Humane Nature giveth Life to our Souls p. 7. Can it do so and yet his Spirit not so much as extend to us though immensly impowered with the Deity How doth he darken Counsel by words without Knowledge And W. H. leaves us not thus but has another fling at us p. 19. But he Christ is on Earth the Quakers say at least in one essential part of his Manhood His Soul is in every Saint You see Error is big-bellyed and fruitful And p. 20. 30. Refining Religion and the blessed holy true real operative Manhood of Jesus Christ into Air Wind Fancy Nothing ‖ Gross Lyes c. Rep What a heap of jumbled Arguing mudled Stuff with a most false Conclusion against us is here as if we went about to annihilate the most holy and glorious Manhood of Jesus Christ Now we would query of this Man First If the Soul and Spirit of Christ be not one and the same 2. If he was the Son of God before the World was what then is his Soul and in what time created 3. If the Spirit of Christ and the holy Ghost be separate or divided 4. If Jesus Christ in all the parts essential and proper to him viz. in Body and Soul or Spirit be so circumscribed and limited in Heaven as in no sense or degree to be in or with his Saints or Members on Earth then how is his own Promise or Saying made good Lo I am with you alway to the End of the World And how has the Father given the Son Power over all Flesh that he should give Eternal Life to as many as the Father gave him John 17. 5. And doth not God send the Spirit of his Son into Believers Hearts that thereby they might partake of his holy and heavenly
THE TESTIMONY OF THE Hartford Quakers FOR The Man Christ Jesus VINDICATED From the Malicious Slanders Perversions Confusions Impertinencies and Idle Quibling of William Haworth an Independent-Preacher in his ANIMADVERSIONS on the said Testimony from the Hartford Quakers as in Derision he calls them With a Brief and Serious Reply by Mary Stout to what concerns her in William Haworth's former Book Entituled The Quaker converted to Christianity Re-established which about two years since John Crook and William Bayly have more fully Answered in their Book entituled The Counterfeit-Christian Discovered intended hereafter to be published unto which THE SUBSTANCE of this Tract will serve for an APPENDIX He i. e. Christ is despised and rejected of men c. who shall declare his Generation Isa 53. Behold I lay in Sion a Chief Corner-stone elect precious but unto them which be disobedient a Stone of Stumbling c. 1 Pet. 2. Printed in the Year 1676. A Brief Introduction TO THE Unprejudiced Reader SInce we have in our late Testimony to the Man Christ Jesus in the Fear Sight and Presence of Almighty God seriously confessed unto the VERY CHRIST the Son of God both with respect to his miraculous Conception by the Holy Ghost his being born of the Virgin Mary his Life Sufferings Death Resurrection Ascension into Glory his Coming again in Spirit and in the Power of his Father c. according to the plain Testimonies given of him in the four holy Evangelists Matthew Mark Luke and John the Acts of the Apostles c. William Haworth in the Pride and Malice of his Heart has endeavoured to invalidate our Profession and abusively rendred us Lyars Cheaters Equivocaters pag. 11 12. Poor Vnbelieving Creatures p. 15. like a Railer aspersing us with The deadly Poyson Inchantments Divinations Errors of the Socinians Quakers Ranters Muggletonians Papists thus he ranks us And with his impertinent Scribles hath opposed our Confession of Christ's spiritual Coming and Presence with his Members on Earth limiting the Spirit of Christ to a wonderful distance from his Saints and Members on Earth because he sayes 'T is the Soul or Spirit of Christ's Manhood or Humanity in Heaven which Spirit or Christ's spiritual Presence that it should so much as extend to the Saints upon Earth this he cannot swallow Animad Pag. 10. on this much of his Work against us depends yet let it be remarkt that to the utter Overthrow of his own Cause he has in plain words confessed thus viz. We confess again that the Deity perfects all Good IN US and for us but then the Humanity is in Vnion with it and ACTS WITH ☞ IT and they must not be put assunder p. 28. Howbeit when he often grants that Christ is present with and in his Saints on Earth by his Spirit which is all we would have granted if it were in Reality he sayes he means the Holy Ghost who is God and infinite and can be and is in all the Saints both in Heaven and on Earth at once not the Spirit of the Manhood that is a finite Creature he saith But where proves he by the Scripture that the SON of God is a Finite Creature Yet to vary and go round again We are very apt to be swallowed up with the abstracted Thoughts of the Deity Antid pag. 13. And that Christ hath a Fellow-feeling with his People in all their Streits being touched with the Feeling of their Infirmities Hebr. 4. 15. p. 12. Besides the plain Scripture he cannot get over viz. If any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is noâ—e of his Rom. 8. 9. And God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our Hearts crying Abba Father Gal. 4. 6. But it will appear in the following Tract that this man has confusedly rambled varyed from and confounded Scripture-Language relating to the Manifestation and Operation of the Son of God as the Way and Means of Man's Deliverance and Salvation from Sin and Death and coming unto the Father for no man cometh unto the Father but by the Son This Way and Method of God's Salvation through his Son we stand for against Confusion and Darkness For the Light of Truth is risen over it all Note that when W. H. is proved a Forger in his citing the Dispute between the Baptists and William Penn c. at Barbican to prove that we deny the Manhood of Christ in Heaven then to prove his Slander that we deny Jesus of Nazareth to be the Messiah he closely sticks to a Certificate dated Sept. 19. 1676. and signed by Daniel Doughty Iohn Albury Steph. Tothill which is That at the Discourse they had with William Bates they did more then once hear him plainly say That what Christ took of the Virgin had now no Being And to aggravate the Matter against the Quakers and to prove them No Christians Seducers c. W. H. saith He hath heard it out of the Mouth of a Prophet of their own with Three Witnesses and hath read it in their own Books without pag. 3. quoting any such Books and Pages But Note that in his Epistle to his Antidote c. which we had some Moneths before the Date of the said Certificate he has it in some other Terms viz. That W. Bates frequently said He did not believe that the Humane Nature that which was taken by Christ of the Virgin had now any Being See his Variation as to Matter of Fact The Phrase Humane Nature and that he frequently said it is not mentioned in the said Certificate However we own neither Passage but look upon the words as unadvisedly spoken whether way soever William Bates did express them or if he spake any thing to the same import he was ensnared by the Priest's Craft and therefore his Charging the Quakers hereupon with denying Jesus of Nazareth is as utterly false as his calling W. Bates a Prophet of our own to prove us guilty whereas he was never esteemed nor known to be that we know of either a Prophet Preacher or Teacher among us And W. H. his charging the Quakers Antid Epist yea many Thousands of them with disowning Jesus of Nazareth from the words of that one Person shews his Injustice and Malice And we having plainly confessed to the same Christ Jesus as still in being W. H. to his own Contradiction sayes they evidently see we are not all Anim. p. 11. guided by one and the same Infallible Light It seems then that though W. Bates was not others of us are More Shame then for our Adversary to brand the Quakers in general and to call us gross Lyars and Cheaters for this one man's Occasion Would he have himself and his Brethren to be so served Has he done as he would be done by Oh Shameless Man And we demand of him to know in what Books of ours he has read these words as he saith viz. That what Christ took of the Virgin hath now NO Being Let him produce those Books
Nature and Humanity of the same Mind the same Meekness Gentleness Humility Kindness Fear of the Lord Obedience c. that was in him Else how can any be true Christians If W. H. answers viz. I grant that Christ is present with and in his Saints by his Spirit that I mean the Holy Ghost who is God and infinite and can be and is in * See Antid pag. 13. all the Saints both that are in Heaven on Earth at once not the Spirit of the manhood an essential part that is a finite Creature ‖ He confessâ—th that the Consideration of the Manhood of Christ in Heaven doth give Boldness Access in Prayer God hath rendred himself much more familiar to us this Way We are very apt to be swallowed up with the abstracted Thoughts of the Deity But does this Man pray to and worship Christ as a finite Creature that has not Power to extend his Spirit to him No but as in Vnion with the Deity then we hope as in that Union he has Power to minister of his own Life and Virtue to all that believe in his Name However he grants that as God Christ is in all his Saints in Heaven and Earth Well shew us the Father and it sufficeth us To which Christ answered He that seeth me seeth my Father also John 14. Therefore the true Knowledge and Sight of God is through his Son as his words are page 10. Now Christ as God is immense as to his Presence he is every where and as to his Saints he is with them always and in them by his Spirit Antid pag. 5. Rep. Now you have his Opinion how Jesus Christ is in and with his Saints that is That the immense infinite God is in and with them But is nothing essential to the Heavenly Man Christ Jesus the Son of God as such extended to them See but what a Labyrinth the Man runs into through his deviating from plain Scripture-Language dividing Christ the Head from his Body to such a vast distance as he knows not the Omnipresence of an infinite God who questions But how does he own his SONSHIP or Manifestation Operation or Dispensation of the SON of God as such or as Mediator between God and Men or the Kingdom of the Mediator And when Christ said All Power in Heaven and Earth is given unto me Lo I am with you alway is this only as an infinite God Who then gave him this Power And who gave the Son Power over all Flesh or impower him to give Eternal Life Did God give it to himself Did not the Son say My Father is greater then I But if as a Son he be wholely excluded and separate from the Saints on Earth how said he If any man love me I and my Father will come unto him and make our Abode with him And if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his And because ye are Sons God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your Hearts crying Abba Father Gal. â— Is there nothing of the heavenly and holy Manhood in this Spirit of the Son but only the meer infinite Deity it self or does it then mediate intercede or cry Abba Father to it self without Respect to any lower State or Dispensation as a Son as the Way and Means to come to God or to Christ Jesus as the eminent Instrument and Workman of God as Mediator The Gospel we have received we had it in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost who are inseparable and not divided either in Heaven or in Earth We have nakedly confessed Jesus Christ the Son of God as having all Power in Heaven and Earth to be both God and Man he is that Immanuel God with us And hath not he Power as such to breathe upon and inspire his Saints and to give Light and Life to Mankind without any lessening or limitation to his own Being as Jesus Christ the Son of God It is the Spirit of the Son wherein we receive of his Life Vertue and Power and its only in and through the Mediator that Man is capable of receiving the Knowledge of God For God who commanded the Light to shine out of Darkness hath shined in our hearts to give the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor. 4. 6. Whose Knowledge and In dwelling we have in measure received according to the Measure of the Gift of Christ whereby we feel him to dwell in our Hearts by Faith as truly as we know that God dwelleth in us and we in him because he hath given us of his Spirit Jesus Christ received the Spirit without Measure we by Measure Moreover is not all the Graces and Operations thereof in us and spiritual Good we receive from God to our Souls said to be through Jesus Christ a Phrase frequently used in Scripture who said also Without me ye can do nothing And how is Christ Jesus the Way to the Father given for a Covenant and Leader to his People and for Salvation to the Ends of the Earth if not at all upon Earth and why did he say No man cometh unto the Father but by me Was this considered only as God without any Condescension as a Son or Mediator below the meer Deity were not this to confound the Order and Manner of the holy Ghost's plain and distinguishing Testimonies in Scripture relating to the Dispensation of Christ Another Instance we have to prove the Blessed and Heavenly man Christ Jesus not now upon Earth in or with his Members with respect to HIS Spirit or spiritual Presence and that is Act. 3. 21. Whom the Heavens must receive till the Times of Restitution of all things ‖ Which God had spoken by the mouth of all his holy Prophets since the World began These words he leaves out If quoth W. H. they would mind this one Scripture it would put an End to all their Cavils which Times let them dare to say are already come pag. 9. Answ Dare he say that these Times of Restitution of all things spoken by the holy Prophets are not begun in these Gospel-Times wherein Christ's spiritual Appearance Dispensation and Revelation is made known what 's the Restitution and the Times of it Is it not a Restauration gathering and making up the Church of Jews and Gentiles into the spiritual Fellowship and Faith of the Son of God who therein are the Seed of Abraham whom God promised to bless in sending Jesus to turn away every one from his Iniquities see Acts 3. 20. to the end And are not those Times of Restitution Gospel Times New-Covenant Times Let it be considered according to Scripture how far the Times of Restitution of ALL things spoken by the Holy Prophets extend and what that Restitution is and it will appear Whether those Times and that Restitution are not begun and whether or no its now a Time to perswade People that Christ Jesus is not
well pleasing in his sight THROUGH JESUS CHRIST Heb. 13. 20 â—1 What 's more plain then that God enlightens us and Works in us by his Sâ—n Jesus Christ in condiscention and subâ—erviency to himself and that those Primitive believing Gentiles waited for his Son from Heaven looked for the Glorious appearing of the great God AND our Saviour Jesus Christ as â—is Grace taught them and that he did work in them what was well pleasing in his sight THROUGH JESUS CHRIST Mark tâ—at did the Heavens then and yet contain Jesus Christ at such a Remotenesâ— from all Saints on Earth Were all these former Believers disappointed in their hope and expectations and waiting for the Son of God from Heaven Or did they only attain to the Glorious appearing of the great God not of Jesus Christ does not this suit thy Notion who speaks not IN Christ nor IN his knowledge who never wast Baptized into Christ thou hast not received the Spirit of the Son 't is a Mystery hid from all such aâ—ry Notionists who hast signified to us that All those places where we Read of Jesus Christ by name APPEARING are to be understood that either they saw him the Heavens being opened as 't is said of Stephen â—r his was in extacy Antid p. 4. And thou hast explained how Stephen saw the Heavens opened and the Son of Man standing on the Right Hand of God that it was with his Carnal Eyes his Sight being strengthned in a wonderful way Antidote pag. 4. 12. ☞ And what is that other way of seeing Jesus Christ in his appearâ—ng It is in Extacy What 's that It is as when one is in a Trance or Swoon when one so forgetteth himself that he is not in the exercise of his Reason or Understanding Thou mayest preach and pray long enough before thou wilt be in any such Extacy or Trance or see the Heavens opened and Christ's Appearing with thy Carnal Eyes But were the believing Gentiles waiting and looking for the Son of God from Heaven the glorious Appearing of the Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ 1 Thes 1. 10. Titus 2. 13. in Expectation either to see him with their Carnal Eyes the visible Heavens being opened or to see him only in some Extacy Trance or Swoon If so then they were not to see Jesus Christ while in their right Wits or Understandings or in the exercise of their Gifts Strange Doctrine Yet we grant that great Visions and Raptures have been in Extacies A Man in Christ caught up into the Third Heaven whether in the Body or out of the Body I know not said he Peter at Prayer fell into a Trance and saw Heaven opened Act. 10. 10 11. But this hinders not the Saints Spiritual Sight and Sense of Christ in their daily Enjoyment of him and living in him But Stephen being full of the Holy Ghost saw the Glory of God and Jesus standing on his Right Hand and said Behold I see the Heavens opened c. Could he with his Carnal Eyes see all this viz. the Glory of God his Right Hand and Jesus standing at it And were the Heavens outwardly opened What mean Conceits hast thou of God and Christ who also tellest of Stephen's seeing Christ in Heaven with his Bodily Eye it being strengthned by the Lord Anim. p. 14. And did he see the Glory of God and his Right Hand with his Bodily Eye also Thou sayest Thou wouldest not be guilty of any Carnal Thoughts of God or his Glory but yet darest not but believe the Scriptures of Truth in these Matters although thou shouldst not satisfie thy Reason And addest I do believe the Deity it self cannot be seen no Mortal Eye can approach that Invisibility p. 16. And then where do the Scriptures say that Stephen saw the Glory of God with his Bodily or Carnal Eyes The Scripture in the same place as plainly saith That he saw the Glory of God as that he saw the Heavens opened and Jesus standing on the Right Hand of God And thou hast granted No Mortal Eye can approach the Invisibility of the Deity it self See how thou art shaken in thy Work about thy saying Christ passed into the invisible Heavens thou now variest it to unseen as many Stars are invisible yet capable of being seen by any Teliscope or Prospective-Glasses p. 14. So then by Invisible most supream Heaven that 's far above all Heavens i. e. all Heavenly Powers all Angelical Nature and Perfection He is above them all Antid p. 8. we are to understand thou meanest an Vnseen yet Visible Heaven above all Heavenly Powers all Angelical Nature c. that may be seen by the Carnal Eye when eminently strengthned as thou thinkest Stephen's was What then is this Angelical Nature and those Heavenly Powers which this invisible unseen visible Heaven is so far above Thou comest off but poorly in this how poor and Vnbelieving Creatures soever thou countest us p. 15. Thou art high and rich in thy own Conceit but is it not with other mens Notions intermixt with thy own Conceits confused and carnal Fancies In the 13th page of our Testimony we required thee To shew us that Book and Page of ours where ever from these Scriptures Ephes 4. 10. Mat. 28. 20. or 1 Cor. 15. 50. the Quakers thus argued viz. Therefore Christ is not in Heaven in his Manhood how then can he be in Heaven But instead of producing us Book and Page or Dispute for these Words or Inferences thou proceedest in thy Forgery to abuse us still charging thy own Objections with the same Inferences of thy own forging upon us with thy Ergo He is not in Heaven c. p. 13. Oh Forger and Perverter And for thy Belief of Christ's Manhood and Nature being of an Earthly Substance Anim. p. 7. A Humane Natural Body p. 10. having the same Matter Finiteness ☞ Shape Form Figure it had on Earth p. 11 17. and that Christ's Soul or Spirit an essential Part of his manhood Antid p. 3. is a Finite Creature Animad p. 10. How shall we reconcile these words with thy Confession viz. We say the WORD was made Flesh Joh. 1. 14. and in that Flesh ascended into Heaven p. 12. We hope thou wilt not say That WORD was made an Earthly Substance a Humane Natural Body nor yet a Finite Creature for all things were made by that Word Joh. 1. 3. And this was the Son of God by whom God made the Worlds Hebr. 1. 2. Thou hadst need use some nice Distinction here by some Figure or Communication of Properties to wind thy self off from Socinianism and Confusion though thou exclaimest highly against the Socinians and it s a question whether that will do thy Cure For what Preeminence hast thou allowed Christ if both his Essential Parts be but such finite Creatures i. e. His Body in Heaven but a Humane Natural Body of an Earthly Substance of the same Matter and Form it had on Earth and his
true meaning of Scriptures here thou art calling Evil Good and Good Evil and because the Scriptures declare of some Works which do not avail therefore thou concludest there are none available to Salvation although wrought by the Spirit of the Lord but that which thou callest Faith alone must save and all who assert the contrary they lead to the Covenant of Works and so to Popery to work for Life which is a heavy Yoke sayest thou Surely had the Apostle James been on Earth in our Dayes thou wouldst have noted him for a Papist when he saith Shew me thy Faith without thy Works and I will shew thee mine by my Works and wilt thou know O vain man that Faith without Works is dead even as the Body without the Spirit and by Works is Faith made perfect Well may we say as the Prophet David did It is time for thee O Lord to work for they have made void thy Law But thou art much mistaken in us for we work not of our selves for Life but the Life helpeth us worketh all our works in us and for us and his Yoke is easie and his Burden is light â—n be it known to thee God hath a People upon Earth at this Daâ— though thou knows them not unto whom it is become as â—n eat and Drink to do his Will and who can do nothing against the Truth but for it and their Obedience is not as Egyptian Slaves for Fear of a Whip page 91. of thy Book and so thou goest on and sayest although you Christians come not up to that Height the Law requires yet do not they love God more and obey better that apprehend God's Love in Christ Vnchangeable to them then they that after all their Toyl fear they may fâ—ll short But what doth that Love signifie that keeps not his Commands He that hath my Commandments and keepeth them he it is that loveth me saith Christ And he that loves the Lord with all his Heart and his Neighbour as himself fulfils the Law and if there be any other Command it is briefly comprehendâ—d in thâ—s Rom. 13. 9. Mat. 22. 40. for on these two hang all the Law and the Prophets for Love worketh no ill But according to your Love is your Obedience and according to that is your Assurance of God's Love to you for it seems you do but apprehend that his Love is unchangeable to you but the Assurance which God's People had in former Ages and in this also is another thing for his Spirit which acteth them in their Obedience to him the same bears witness with their Spirits that they are his Children Thou sayst It is sufficiently manifest there are Errors amongst us and we have been weighed and found too light and tryed and found Drâ—ss Answ What hast thou weighed and tryed us with seeing thou dost not profess the Spirit to be thy Rule which is the just and equal Ballance The Spiritual Man or he that is led by it judgeth all things by yet himself is judged of none and nothing else is sufficient to try Spirits but the Spirit of Christ so we may be Gold weight enough too for ought thou knows and if thou sayst Thou hast tryed us by the Scriptures if thâ— Spirit be not thy Rule therein thou mayst fail for those that persecuted Christ to Death thought they tryed him by the Scripture when they condemned him as a Blasphemer and no question bâ—t they thought their Conceivings or Apprehensions from them were right else they would never have said His Blood be on us and our Children Thou sayest O that you were built upon Christ the Rock his Person is the Rock of Eternity not tâ—e Light in every man Answ We are built upon the Rock of which the Fathers drank For they drank of that spiritual Rock which followed them and that Rock was Christ 1 Cor. 10. 4. He who said Before Abraham was I am which was before all Time who in Time took upon him that prepared Body of Flesh wherein he did the Will of God this is the Rock of Eternity the Foundation upon which Abraham and all the Saints of old did build But thou wilt say Abraham saw he was to come and upon that he built 'T is true he saw his Day but what was that which gave him to see Christ was to come in the Flesh Was it not a Measure of his Spirit in Abraham by which he was qâ—ickened and made alive unto God Christ's own words do fully declare it Mat. 22. 32. by which he put the Saducâ—s to silence which say There is no Resurrectioâ— I am the God of Abraham of Isaac and of Jacob now God saith he is not the God of the Dead but of the Living This is that first Resurrection in which he had a part over which the second Death shall have no Power Thou sayest We may hold out in a Day of Man's Persecution and Opposition but when the Tempestuous Sea of God's Justice beats upon us in an Hour of Death and in the Day of Judgment then the Sandy Foundation of our own Righteousness will fall and so thou bidst us Take heed that our Faith be the same with that which Peter professed whâ—ch was that of the Person of Christ Answ That Faith which will carry through inable to hold out in the Patience in a day of Man's Persecution and Opposition is more likely to be the True Faith and to be upon the Right Foundation then that which will not but yours will not uphold you in a day of Man's Persecution and therefore is very unlikely to uphold you when God's Justice beats upon you in an Hour of Death and in a Day of Judgment to come Thou sayest Against which Faith of the Person of Christ all the Powers of Hell shall not prevail but our Profession is thou sayest that not Christ Jesus of Nazareth but the Light in every man is Christ and against this Faith we may be sure it being false the Gates of Hell will never prevail for Satan will never fight against it Answ That we profess Jesus of Nazareth is not the Christ is wholely false and although Satan will never fight against the False Faith yet he hath already fought and prevailed against those that are in it and he doth still prevail over them first to make them believe a Lye and then to keep them in that Belief which is That although Sin which he hath wrought in them do continue in them while they live yet they may be saved when they dye And that he doth fight against the true Faith which we are in is very evident also and stirs up all the Force and Power he can too although to little purpose else what meaneth and from whence cometh all that Opposition we have mâ—t with ever since we were a People unto this day for he knows that it strikes at the Root and Foundation of his kingdom which is Darkness and the works thereof and
sent for such a Work as that of Restitution as also how far the Phrase Heavens and Heavenly Places according to Scripture extends Whereas to our saying The Apostles had Signs and Evidences of Christ's Coming who by HIM wrought Miracles Act 4. 10. i. e. saith he The Miracles were Signs of his Personal Coming since his Ascention p. 14. Personal Coming are none of our words but this Man 's own Meaning on ours therefore his Risum teneatis amici with all his scornful Stuff toucheth not us It was Christ's Spiritual Presence and Power that we pleaded in those Miracles And he is fain to grant that Miracles wrought by the Apostles were only Signs of the Coming of Christ in Power and Spirit P. 14. Well then CHRIST came again in Power and Spirit after his Ascention yes and on that Scripture Jo. 3. 13. he confesseth CHRIST was spiritually in Heaven with his Saints when on Earth and is spiritually on Earth with them now he is in Heaven p. 13. Is CHRIST so Why then does this Man cavil against us The Reader knoweth saith he what we mean by the spiritual Presence of CHRIST with his Saints He means That God whose Presence is immense and infinite filling Heaven and Earth is with his Saints not really Christ Jesus in Spirit as Man though he be the second Man the Lord from Heaven the last Adam and made a QUICKNING Spirit 1 Cor. 15. 45 47. But is Christ divided Is he not God and Man in Union And to our Citations on Acts 3. 11 16. and chap. 4. 10. By the Name of Jesus of Nazareth whom ye crucified whom God raised from the Dead EVEN BY HIM doth this Man stand before you whole and vers 30. That Signs and Wonders may be done by the Name of thy holy Child Jesus whom thou hast anointed And Act. 2. 32. Having received of the Father the Promise of the Holy Ghost HE hath shed forth this which ye now see and hear Well 't is granted that these Miracles were only Signs of the Coming of Christ in Power and Spirit wherein he was spiritually on Earth If he still sayes This only concerned the Deity or Omnipresence of God the Father and not the spiritual Presence of the man Christ nor his spiritual Manhood This were to tell us that Peter and the Apostles only went about to convince people of an infinite Deity and that his infinite Presence was with them without respect to the Presence and Work of Christ as a Son or Mediator with them when they endeavoured to promote the Name of Jesus Christ who was crucified and said Even by HIM doth this man stand before you whole and prayed that Signs and Wonders might be done by the Name of the holy Child Jesus Which was that through him the Power of God and Christianity in the Life and Power of it might be promoted and spread For by HIS MEANS we believe in God that raised him from the dead and gave him Glory that our Faith and hope might 1 Pet. 1. 21. be in God And seeing thou W. H. confessest in Joh. 14. 18. I will not leave you comfortless I will come unto you That this Scripture speaks of his Coming in the Power of his Spirit to their hearts to comfort them in the Evil Dayes wherein they should be cast p. 13. And yet As for his Deity it is infinite and can in no wise be said that the Heaven received it p. 9. God is immense as to his Presence he is every where with his Saints alwayes c. Antid p. 5. From hence we may then answer thee Argumentum ad hominem or according to thy own Reasoning It cannot be said that Christ meerly as to his Deity did come again unto them any more then in that respect he ascended or went from them his Deity being infinite filling all places therefore his Coming again surely must in some sense have respect to his heavenly and blessed Manhood by virtue of the divine Power of his Father wherewith he was wonderfully endued and exalted Eph. 1. 21. But still to our Opposers circumscribing the Man Christ Jesus the Mediator as to his whole Manhood both in Soul and Spirit as well as Body to some remote place in Heaven from his Members on Earth and deriding at us for confessing to his spiritual presence in and with them We desire the Reader to observe one passage wherein he has overturned his Work given away his Cause and plainly hedged up his own way and that is in p. 28. of his Anim. viz. We confess again that the Deity Anim. p. 28. ☞ PERFECTS all good IN US and for us but then the Humanity is in Vnion with it and acts with it and they must not be put assunder How now W. H. What hast thou been contending against us for for confessing something of Christ in us as Man as well as God and for the Doctrine of Perfection And yet hast here plainly confest to both that the Deity PERFECTS all good IN US and for us And that the Humanity which is the manhood is in Vnion and ACTS with it and they must not be put assunder what can be more plain And hast thou not confest The manhood with the Deity is but one Christ one Mediator and both spoken of in that place p. 19. John 6. 53. And that the Flesh of Christ which thou callest this Human Nature giveth Life to our Souls in quickening of us to Righteousness Antid p. 7. Thou hast said enough stop thy Mouth and Pen and Cavil no longer with us in this matter thou hast fairly given away thy cause and contest do the Saints now partake of any thing of Christ below the Divine being it self what sayest now doth not the Deity and the holy manhood work together in perfecting all good in us Thou hast now fully answered thy self and Scrible as much as thou wilt thou canst never get over it And what sayest thou to these Scriptures where God said to his Son It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my SERVANT to raise up the Tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved of Israel I will also GIVE thee for a Light to the Gentiles that thou mayest be my Salvation unto the ends of the Earth Isa 49. 6 8. Acts 13. 47. And said Christ No man cometh unto the Father but BY ME John 14. 6. And said the Apostle Ye turned to God from Idols to serve the living and true God and to wait for his SON FROM HEAVEN whom he raised from the Dead even Jesus c. 1 Thes 1. 9 10. Looking for that blessâ—d Hope and Glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ who gave himself for us Titus 2. 13. The God of pâ—ace that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus that great Shepherd of the Sheep through the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant make you PERFECT in every good Work to do his will working IN YOU that which is
Spirit but a finite Creature yet it was the Word that was made Flesh ascended What! is the Word a Natural Earthly Body or Substance in Heaven Why dost not keep to Scripture And is Christ's Body in Heaven a Natural Earthly Body If so then he has a meaner Body then his Saints and Members shall have theirs shall be Spiritual Coelestial and Glorious but alas Christ their Head must still have a Natural Humane Earthly Body in Heaven in the same Shape Form and Figure it had on Earth But we told this Man in our Testimony pag. 12. If so where it s said in the place cited Phil. 3. 21. Who shall change our vile Body that it may be FASHIONED like unto his Glorious Body That were as Good Sense as to say We shall be fashioned like unto what we are where then is the Change We can gather no satisfactory Answer to this but only the same invested with more Glory p. 16. that is to say That Christ's Natural Earthly Body in Heaven is invested with more Glory then on Earth and so shall our Vile Body be So the changing and fashioning of the Body shall not be any Change of the Substance or Fashion of the Body it self but only the investing the Vile Earthly Body with some better or more beautiful Cloathing then now it hath See how this Opposer has perverted the plain Scripture and what mean Conceits he has of Christ's Glorious Body In plain Confutation to which we would have him read Dr. H. Moor his Modest Enquiry into the Mystery of Iniquity Apol. Chap. 3. p. 494. in his Search into the Nature of a Glorified Body wherein he declares That the Body of Christ in Heaven is not Terrestrial Flesh and Bones but of a more refined Nature Observe and that according to Testimony in Scripture we find that a Glorified Body or that Body wherewith they shall be rewarded who shall attain to that blessed Resurrection may be dignified with these three Titles Angelical Spiritual Coelestial We would advise W. Haworth to Read Henry Moore upon this Subject of the Resurrection-bodies for W. H. may learn something of him he being a man of far more wit parts then himself however he would seem to be some learned Phylosopher Where he tells us that if it i. e. the Body of Christ be not the same in Kind and Nature it cannot be the same in number Anim. p. 5. This cannot be Universally true in every respect if H. Moor's enquiry into the Nature of a glorified Body be true even in this very instance of the glorified Body of Christ That is if it be so Transmuted or changed come to be of a more refined Nature then a terrestrial Body that is become spiritual Coelestial Let him answer H. Moore on this subject as before cited if he can That Christ's manhood cannot be seen with the bodily Eye p. 5. in any Sense is not our affirmation or words for Christ has power to shew himself Visibly and Invisibly as he pleaseth as he did to his Disciples after his Resurrection to Paul in the Light shining from Heaven and inwardly by Revelation As also to Nebuchadnezar in the Fire The form of the fourth is like the Son of God Dan. 3. 25. But where W. H. States The same figure form or shape as ESSENTIAL to Christ p. 11 16. on which much of his Work hangs we think him very Ignorant herein for then when Christ appeared in another form and variously manifested himself both visibly and invisibly outwardly in Peron and also by Visions and Revelations by this his being must be changed which we do not believe for he is the same to Day as he was yesterday and forever Against our instance of Christ's appearing in divers Forms after his Resurrection Mark 16. 12. After p. 17. that he appeared to two of them in another Form W. H. tells us All the Books of the Evangelists do but compleat the History This of Mark is the shortest fall But from Luke 24. 15. He saith It was then he himself with the SAME FORM and Figure Human. Rep. This does not only imply Mark 's writing to be shorter then the rest but that Luke â—e contradicted one another as much as for the one to say He appeared in another form and the other to say Nay he appeared with the same form and figure Thus he has opposed the Evangelist Mark. And by his saying that He seemed to them as one in another habit So the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth sometimes sigâ—ifiâ—â— p. 17. What has he mended the matter here What other Habit Was it another Garment Is that the proper Signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Doth it not properly signifie the Face or Form some times the figure or likeness Concerning Christ's appearing twice in the midâ—t of his Disciples the Doors being shut John 20. 19 26. He grants here a change of State and Condition but how of state and condition if still but earthly and Natural without any alteration either as to the matter or form of a Natural earthly Body But why do we bring that Scripture Was it to provâ— that he penetrated the Doors or Walls as he sayes we supposâ— p. 5. No we concluded not how it being a Sign of an eminent Power Christ had the Doors being shut when he appeared in the midst of them None of them nor any other man opened the Doors for him as is confest p. 18. This Scripture was then brought by us in order to stop W. H's ignorant Intruding into things he has not seen to avoid unlearned Questions and not make himself wise above what is written he addeth There was then no question a miracle wrought by him How came Peter out of Prison Did he come through the Iron Gate they came to the Iron Gate that leadeth unto the City which opened to them of its own accord Could not Christ Effect the like tâ—ink you for himself Yes he could do it but the Scripture is silent in it But that he appeared in the midst of them the Doors being shut It is Remarkable how W. H. in pag. 19. Makes himself sport in his abusive Forgery where he tells what a strange manhooâ— they have confessed to when 't is of his own Forging none of our Confession and yet has the impudence to say 'T is without wronging them a Tittle But seeing he sometimes takes manhood for the Body Antid p. 6. and Anim. p. 5. we ask him Where in what Book or Page did we ever so confess of it as he saith 1. That it was no way the Object of Sense 2. That it is an Infinite Immense God 3. That it was so thin subtil that it could penetrate Doors and Stone-walls 4. In Form without Shape Figure c 5. That it did not dye for Sinners But in these things he has not on the Particulars distinguished what he means by Manhood whether the Body or Spirit of Christ or
both and so hâ—s dealt unâ—aiâ—ly and not only in these but in many more Particulars hath he abused perverted and confounded our words as well as the Scriptures which would fill a Volumn to open distinâ—tly He makes no Conscience of belying us and grosly perverting our Words and Intentions 'T is probable he would take it as an Affront and Injury if we should retalliate upon him or enumerate the Consequences of his Carnal Conceits to shew what a strange Chriâ—t he has set forth But at present wee 'l suppose these two to follow from his Doctrine until he reconcile and clear himself better then he has yet done viz. 1. Thâ—t Christ being wholely in the highest Heaven and his Body there more bright then a Thousand Sons Antid p. 6. yet cannot be seen by any Teliscope or Prospective Glasses as many unseen Stars may He must needs be at a wonderful vast Distance from his Saints and Members on Earth 2. That his very Spirit or Soul is so bound up in that Body at that vast height and wonderful distance in Heaven that it cannot so much as extend to any Saints upon Earth to viâ—it and comfort them in any of their Tryals or See p 10. Temptations Satan it seems has more Power to come and tempt them then Christ has to come to help them though beyond measure endued with Divine Power sad and inconsistent News And yet the Flesh of Christ is such as giveth Life to our Souls in quickning of us to Righteousness Antid p. 7. It seems then his Flesh extends farther then his Spirit But the true Christ is not divided His Heavenly Humanity and Divinity act in Union in quickening whom â—e will the Seed that he has sown in the Souls of men and the Spirit of Life that he breaths in are of himself as truly as that HOLY THING conceived in the Virgin was of the Holy Ghost And was not Christ spiritually formed in the Saints by the same Power of the Holy Ghost And Christ said He that eateth my Flâ—sh and drinketh my Blood dwelleth in me and I in him John 6. 56. Moreover We do both firmly believe that the Worlds were made by the Son of God and that by him all things consist he being that Word that was with God and that was God in the Beginning and that this Son of God was the first born of every Creature and the first begotten of the Dead and since by Man came Death by Man came also the Resurrection of the Dead And also we do as really confess according to holy Scripture That this Son of God in due time took upon him a real Body prepared for him of the same Flesh and Blood which the Children had Hebr. 2. 14. was made of the Seed of David according to the Flesh and declared to be the Son of God with Power according to the Spirit of Holiness by the Resurrection from the Dead Rom. 1. 3 4. That this Christ the Son of God took upon him the Form of a Servant and was made in the Likeness or Habit of men and being found in fashion as a man he humbled himself and became obedient unto Death even the Deaâ—h of the Cross wherefore God hath highly exalted him c. Phil. 2. So that he being come sâ— low as to be thus made and fashioned as in the similitude of men as man his Soul was capable of Humiliation Sorrow and Affliction for Mankind and of sympathizing with his Servants yet still was the Only begotten of the Father and was full of Grace and Truth the express Image of his Father's Substance he was also made a quickning Spirit to all who are spiritually quickened by him he was taken up into Glory he was glorified with the Deity or God himself with the same Glory that he had with the Father before the World began he ascended far above all Heavens that he might fill all things for it hath pleased the Father that ALL Fulness should dwell in him So that the True Christ is neither divided nor may we entertain such Mean Low Carnal Thoughts of this Son of God this only begotten of the Father as That he is a FINITE Creature in a natural earthly Body in Heaven and he therein wholly separate as one there circumscribed or limited to such a wonderful far Distance as is supposed from all his Saints and Church on Earth We have neither thus learnt Christ or received the Son of God nor thus read of him in the holy Scriptures under those Terms but have a Measure of the Knowledge of the Son of God as the Father hath revealed him in us Finally There is no more Inconsistency or denying the Man Christ between our confessing his Ascention into Heaven and Glory yea far above all Heavens and his coming again in Spirit to be spiritually present with and in his Church then is in these Testimonies of the holy Apostles viz. 1. That Saying of Peter Who is gone into Heaven and is on the Right Hand of God 1 Pet. 3. 22. And Behold I lay IN SION a Chief Corner-stone elect precious 1 Pet. 2. 6. As also Heb. 4. 14. Seeing then that we have a great High Priâ—st that 's passed into the Heavens Jesus the Son of God Compared with Hebr. 12. 24. Ye are come to Jesus the Mediator of the New Covenant c. Ephes 1. 20. Which he wrought in Christ when he raised him from the Dead and set him at his own Right Hand in the Heavenly Places Compared with Ephes 2. 6. And hath raised us up together and made us sit together in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus 1 Cor. 15. 3 4 5. Christ dyed for our Sins he was buried rose again the third day was seen of Cephas then of the Twelve c. Compared with 2 Cor. 4. 11. We which live are alway delivered unto Death for Jesus's sake that the Life also of Jesus might be made manifest IN our mortal Flesh Gal. 2. 20. I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ liveth in me c. Rom. 8. 10. If CHRIST BE IN YOU the Body is dead because of Sin but the Spirit is Life because of Righteousness 2 Cor. 13. 5. Examine your selves whether ye be in the Faith prove your own selves know ye not your own selves how that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU except ye be Reprobates Let our Adversary Answer these Scriptures if he can but we suppose he dares not accuse them with Inconsistency nor any of them with denying the Man Christ But if W. H. be minded to busie himself with an Answer or Reply to this Treatise and thereby put his Hearers to further Charge with his Books we would advise him first to consult with some of his learned Brethren who are wiser then himself that they may view his Work before it go to the Press and take special Care that he writes pertinently and consistently lest he run into further Absurdities and self-contradictions
to be quiet and give their Souldiers no more pay the King of France had done his Work We say that it is known to be a common Proverb That Money is the Sinnews of War for take away the Money and the Services would cease Now it seems that Money is the Sinnews of his Cause so take away the Money and William Haworth's Services will cease But again in page 30. he hath it up You must give me no Money this Fear of loosing his Sallery doth much trouble him And it 's well saith he if their Religion be not propagated that same Way we know it in a great Part it is To this we say that it is well known our Religion is not propagated by Money and he himself knows doubtless it is not but in all this he will not say that Money is not a moving Cause to maintain his preaching for he knows that if the Money were taken away let who will preach to his Christians at Hartford since he already so severely admonisheth and upbraids them in this Passage viz. Take heed lest they i. e. the Quakers ensnare you by the Gain and Trade of the World they know they have a Hank upon you this way already some of the Town they have won to them by this means others have abated in their Zeal for Christ fearing to loose their worldly Interest among the Quakers page 30. What is now the Matter Is he not angry with some of his Hearers because they are not so malicious and reviling against the Quakers as himself or is it because they abate in their Gifts and Rewards towards W. H Had not the People of Hartford more need to caution him to take heed of dishonouring the Name of Christ and the Gospel and wearying his hearers by reviling and railing against the Quakers and by too much coveting after Money and Lucre Gifts and Rewards as the Support of his Warfare to the making his preaching chargeable as well as burdensom which it is to be hoped in time many of his Hearers will be weary of and of his confused Railing and scurrilous Books against the People called Quakers Hartford the 10th Moneth 1676. Mary Stout's Reply TO VVilliam Haworth's Answer William Haworth I Did not expect an Answer from thee knowing there was nothing in what was written to thee that thou couldst justly have opposed the truth of which doth and will stand over thee turn it off which way thou wilt Thou sayest That which was true Tenderness in avoiding what was really evil was still maintained in thee but childish Scruplosiâ—y and that Bondage-spirit which thou hast been in and which the Quakers remain in is removed from thee through a more Gospel-knowledge given to thee Answ What dost thou call really evil and what is not All Unrighteousness is Sin and he that breaks the least Command is guilty of all That Spirit of Bondage thou else-where termest Obedience to the Law Doth the Gospel allow what the Law forbids as to Holiness and Strictness of Life or was that therein to be scrupled under the Law which was not under the Gospel Was there not as much Morality under the Gospel as under the Law And if that which was spoken by Moses was strict when he said Thou shalt not kill Christ spake stricter when he said Love your Enemies do good to them that hate you you must not so much as hate them and much more he spake in the 5th of Matthâ—w to that purpose where he saith also He came not to destroy the Law but to fulfil it Thou wilt say That was in his Person I say Yes and in his People too the Apostle Paul did not leap over the Law when he spake of his Liberty in the Gospel but thus he saith I through the Law am dead to the Law that I may live unto God Gal. 2. 19. Thou sayest The way to be little in our own Eyes is to have a sense that by Nature we are Sinners Enemies to God Children of Wrath. Thou askest also Which is like to be least â—n â—is own Eyes he that seeth he hath nothing to justifie him but what is without which God by a free Gift imputeth to him or he that thinketh there iâ— enough within from the Birth if it be obeyeâ— which he hath Will and Power to do Answ What is it which gives that sense Can any thing make manifest Darkness the Deeds thereof but Light For whatsoever is reproved is made manifest by the Light which is of Christ Ephes 5. 13 14. And we say as the Apostle John did We know that he was manifested to take away Sin and to destroy the Devil and his Works 1 John 3. 5 8. And the same Power that worketh this Effect bringeth in Everlasting Righteousness Dan. 9. 24. which relates to the former and if brought in then not wholely without Thou wilt say That is by Faith I say so too but the true Faith gives Victory over the World purifies the Heart keeps it clean and is held in a pure Conscience is so far from lifting up as thou supposest that it brings down not only Words and Actions but every high Thought into Captivity to the Obedience of Christ 2. Cor. 10. 5. and this is not done by our Will or Power but it is God that worketh in us both to will and to do Phil. 2. 17. Thou sayest Christ's Person is the Truth and thou art still against the Errors of the Quakers who are certainly against the Person of Christ and set up another a quality that is in every Robber and yet it will not teath many things necessary to be known Answ And is not his Spirit the Spirit of Truth which he promised he would send which should guide into all Truth John 16. 13. And how canst thou say We are against Christ when we say We own no other but he which spake those words Dost thou call that a Denying of him to believe his Promises and wait for the fulfilling thereof which is to be led by his Spirit into all Truth Though thou sayest The Light will not teach many things yet we believe it will all for it is a measure of the same Spirit and not another that he said should convince the World of Sin in order thereunto and if a spiritual Light then not a natural And it is no Error to say That Thievâ—s are enlightned thereby for it sheweth them their Wickedness and condemneth them for it and it was that which shewed the Thief on the Cross that they received the due Reward of their Deeds but Christ had done nothing amiss Thou sayest There may be Honesty where no Godliness and thou shouldst be glad if the Quakers were as sound in their Judgments as moral in their Lives though of late they have much declined from Morality Answ I â—ay it iâ— a good sign their Judgments are sound and that the Tree is good where good Fruits are brought forth but thy word they maketh
it a general Charge which is falâ—e But thou sayest How honest soever they be in their Callings thou knowest there are Errors of a deep die amongst them Answ I say it is easie to prove a bad Conversation to be a Fruit of Error but it is hard to prove a good one to be so and it is not thy calling our Principles Error that doth prove them so to be I have often heard thee call them so both by Word and Writing but I never heard thee prove it by either Scripture indeed thou mentionest many to that end but so iâ—pertinent to the Business that there needs no other to prove thy self to be in Error and we to be in the Truth Thou sayest The Scriptures do no where call the Light that every man hath the Light of the Son of God and I may as properly call the Sun in ths Firmament so Answ The Scriptures are plentiful in this Case but that of John 1. vers 4 9. is enough In him was Life and the Life was the Light of Men and that was the True Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the World I know thy answer will be That was meant of the Person of Christ which was to be believed in But I ask thee What Possibility was there then or is there now of knowing him to be the true Christ that should come and which was to be believed in without a measure of his spiritual Light to reveal him seeing that Flesh and Blood cannot real him and he that seeth him seeth the Father also But we know it to be the Light of Christ by the Effects thereof the Works that he doth bear Testimony of him thy own words also will witness against thee iâ— this in pag. 109. of thy Book where thou grantest There is a Spark remaining in fallen man of that Light which Adam had in a full Flame before Transgression and also that it will teach some Truths and some divine things that there is a God and he is to be worshipâ— and this the Sun in the Firmament could never do Thou also sayest Thou hast this Light and walkest not contrary to it but it is not thy Guide nor Rule but the Spirit leads thee to the Scriptures as thy Rule and there thou hast seen higher things then the Light could discover to thee and so bids me take heed I have not rebelled against the Knowledge I once had from the Scriptures Answ Dost thou here speak like a Minister of Christ tâ—at had received hiâ— Spirit Did the Spirit in Paul lead him to the Scriptures as his only Rule and Guide after he knew the Son of God revealed in him then His Spirit was his Rule and Instructer as he saith Ephesians Chap. 4. Vers 12. every where and in every thing and opened his Understanding to know the true Meaning of what the holy Men before him had writ and spoke which before he knew not notwithstanding all his Knowledge from the Scriptures and the Prophets and true Ministers of Christ in all Ages did point to the Spirit as the Rule and not to their Words for those high things which they saw could not be seen but by the same Spirit in which they saw them Thou sayest Thou considerest thy self to be in Christ and that thou art doing that which he would have thee do for him in thy Generation and thou art fighting for Jesus of Nazareth against the Quakers Christ Answ To be in Christ is a high State and it were well for thee if thou knewest what thou sayest but if thou didst truly know Jesus of Nazareth and wert in him thou couldst not fight against the Quakeâ—s Christ for he is the same and not anotâ—er and he never employed thee to fight against his Spiritual Aâ—pearance in his People thou hadst better lay down thy Weapâ—ns and submit to him for he will be too strong for thee and a Woful Reward for thy Work wilt thou receive at his Hands if thou Repent not Thou sayest Thoâ— art bâ—und to do thy Duty and leave thy Work with Christ and though thou mayest apprehend our Kingdom wâ—ll prosper yet thou art not discouraged but believest we are in Error stâ—ll and though none of you can yet Christ can and will in time still the Ragiâ—g of the Sea and divide and dry up these Waters and though wâ— soar as high as the Clouds in vain Boasting yet thâ—u canst mâ—uâ—t aâ—ovâ— us in the Spirit of Faith and Confidence Answ Vain Boasting we deny but none shall hinder our Glorying in the Lord bâ—t the Day will declare and the Fire will try every man's Work of what sort it is and the Righteous Judge will determine unto whose Judgment alone we desire to stand But what Spirit is it that hath lifted thee up so high seeing thou denyest and opposest the spiritual Light of Christ which is the Door of Entrance to all that find Pasture And the same that said I am the Light said also I am the Door of the Sheep fold John 10. 9. and all that climb up another Way are Thieves and Robbers and so although thou art climbed never so high yet down again must thou come to this else the higher thou mountest the greater will be thy Fall Thou sayest thou believest and therefore speakâ—st infinitely stronger is he that is with you then he that is against you Ans If he that you think is with you be in you as Christ said he would be in his People John 14. 17. by whom they overcame because greater was he that was in them then he that was in the World then you need not fear but he will overcome for you but there is cause to question it when as thou dost not adventure to say so and thy Words afterwards do import that thou dost hardly believe he is to be so known else what dost thou mean when in answer to my witnessing to Christ's being in his People to lead and save them thou say'st Why not Emanuel as well God with us as in us Ans His being in us denies not his being with us as he is known in us he is with us but what is it that renders us so Erroneous and such who by the Consequence of thy words thou accountest God's Enemies whom he will drive back and divide as the Sea and still the Raging thereof Ans The Saints who writ the Scriptures tell us it was Sin while they were in it and wicked Works that made them Enemies of God and it was those who remained in Sin that did oppose them when they departed from it which the Lord overcame both within and without them But thou sayest Thou never expects to be free from Sin whilest in this Tabernacle and that there is none of Christ's Righteousness at all in your Minds but in his own Person then that Hope is vain and will perish which expects to see Christ conquer his Enemies to thy Comfort when thou dost not know him in thee so
it so manifesteth thy own Ignorance in the Wayes and Working of the Spirit of God not understanding that the several Expressions of Christ relate to several States and Conditions that People are in and to know him as in one Manifestation is in order to another and although we believe the Light in every man is the Light of the Son of God and is Eternal yet it cannot be said tâ—at all that are enlightned do hear and know his Voice neither can it be said that all that know his Voice do know the Elect Seed born yâ—t there is no State so high to be attained unto but still his Voice is to be hearkned to and obeyed to be preserved in that State but Christ saith My Sheep hear my Voice and they follow me And he that will be my Disciple let him deny himself and take up his Cross daily and follow me And so it is those and only those that follow him in the denial of self whithersoever he goes that know the inward Washing and Regeneration till the new Birth is brought forth by the Immortal Word which lives and abides forever and this is the Elect Seed which is Heir of God's Kingdom Thou sayest Did not the Son of God come before this Doctrine came out of the North Answ Yes the Apostles were Witnesses of his Power and Coming and all that know he is come now must know it by the Operation of the same Power in them Thou sayest He is come implying there was a time when he was not come what dost thou mean this to be his first or second Coming Answ If thou didst effectually know his first Coming and the End thereof thou neâ—dst not ask me what I mean for then thou wouldst wait for his second according to his Promise which is that I mean John 14. 3. 18. I go to prepare a Place for you I will come again and receive you to my self This he spake unto his Disciples which knew he was come yet he had many things to say unto them which then they could not bear for which Cause it was expedient for them that he should go away that so the Comforter might come the Spirit of Truth in which he would more fully and largely manifest himself to them then before he could do but they were first to know a time of weeping and lamenting and they had a spiritual Travail to go through And then I will see you again and your Hearts shall rejoycâ— and your Joy no man taketh from you John 16. 21 22. Thou sayest Is the Light within the Elect Seed then it must be saved yet it goeth to Hell with many Answ I have told thee before what I understand the Elect Seed to be and the Light also and now how thou canst make such a Blasphemous Conclusion as this to beget a disesteem of the Light which is not fit to be mentioned is very strange to me that the Light goes to Hell with many whenas iâ— ever thou knowest Redemption from Hell the Light must be the Way and Means whereby the Lord doth bring it to pass Thou sayest We Quakers go the same Way with the Pharisees and thou knowest Christ is the Way believing in him and the Spirit can make this Way easie and short and the Work of the Law upon thy Conscience hath compâ—lled thâ—e to this Way Answ The Spirit doth make the Way easie to all that obey it and are led thereby in the Way of Holiness in which the Unclean cannot walk and it gives Ease and Satisfaction to that Seed which hungers and thirsteth that Righteousness may be exalted which hath long been oppressed under the Egyptian Bondage of Sin God hath heard the Sighs and the Groanings thereof and is come down to deliver from under that heavy Yoke Glory to his Name forever but there is no Ease to the Rebellious Nature which is in Enmity against God that is still to be yoked till it be cut off and rooted out Branch and Root So what Way soever thou hast found out short of this it will end in Sorrow and Disappointment Thou sayest Following the Dâ—ctates of Nature is not the Yoke of Christ for it leads to the Covenant of Works which is a heavy Yoke to work for Life and you are under it sayest thou Answ I know the Dictates of Nature is not the Yoke of Christ but that which teacheth to be meek and low in Heart and gives Rest to the Soul is and that yokes the first Nature which can dictate no good thing and brings to paâ—take of the divine Nature and it doth not lead to the old Covenant to work for Life but to the new where the Lord doth not only command but gives Power to fulfil what he commands which is the great Benefit in the new Covenant for he never intended by making a new Covenant to make void his holy righteous Law as to his People but brings it nearer then before and writes it in their Hearts and puts his Spirit in their inward Parts and I will cause you to walk in my Statutes and ye shall keep my Judgments and do them Ezek. 36. 27. And so those that are led by his Spirit are not under the Law for they are led out of all those things which the Law was added because of those who are meek temperate and gentle against such there is no Law Gal. 5. 18 23. And although the same Work may be wrought which the Saints work yet not being led thereunto by the Spiriâ— of the Lord they are not accepted of and Christ did not find fault with the Pharisees foâ— their outward Holines but because they were not inwardly so too and for omitting the great and weighty matters of the Law These things saith he you ought to have done and not to have left the other undâ—ne and they did it in their own Strength not submitting to the Leadings of his Spirit this Paul law to be their State after he knew the Son of God revealed in himself they being ignorant of Christ who is God's Righteousness went about to estabâ—ish their own and did not submit unto the Righteousness of God So he goes on and tells where he was to be found Say not in thy Heart who shall ascend or descend to fetch Christ but the Word is nigh in thy Heart and Mouth that thou mayâ—st â—ear and do it and that was the word which they preached to be believed in Rom. 10. 8. and so he doth clearly distinguish between the Righteousness and Works which is accepted and that which is not as in Ephes 2. 9. By Grace you are saved not of Works lest any man should boast here he excludeth man's works for we are his Workmaâ—shâ—p created in Christ Jesus unto good Works which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them So here he includeth the Works wrought by and in the Spirit of Christ Now thou wanting the Key of Knowledge that which openeth the Understanding to know the
therefore he is come down in great Wrath because he knows his Time is short Thou sayest Do thou Repent poor Woman and do thy First Works and go to God as a poor Sinner and not think as thou fearest I do through Pride that I am rich and have need of nothing whenas I am blind miserable and naked and thou seest this to be my state Answ This Exhortation was given by Authority from him who held the Seven Stars in his Right Hand Rev. 2 4 5. to those that had left their first Love and to others that were neither hot nor cold whom God would spue out of his Mouth Rev. 5. 15. Now hast thou the Testimony that thou speakest from the same Authority and in the same Power and Spirit which is very unlikely to be seeing thou dost not profess the Spirit to be thyâ— Rule And also Canst thou make it appear that I have left my first Love and am neither hot nor cold or else of necessity these two things will follow First That thou speakest when the Lord hath not spoken to thee And secondly That thy Exhortation is improper and impertinent to me Thou also sayest Thou counsellest me to buy Eye-salâ—e to see my Poverty Nakâ—dness and Raiment which â—s Iâ—puted Righteousness that I be not found naked in the Day of Christ Answ If thou did know where to direct me to buy this Eye-salve certainly thou wouldst have bought some for thy self that so thy own Eyes might have been opened and not have manifested so much Blindness and Ignorance as thou hast done in this thy Work and also discovered thy own Nakedness notwithstanding all thy pretence to imputed Righteousness it will not cover thee in the day of Christâ— for all Coverings then will be found too short and too narrow except the Covering of his Spirit But if I should take this thy Counsel tâ—en mightest thou truly call me silly Woman to dispossess my self of the Earnest and First Fruits of an Everlasting Inheritance made manifest and enjoyed within for a bare Apprehension or Imagination of being saved by the Imputation of that Righteousness which Christ wrought wholely without me not that I do believe that it is possible for any to be saved without the real Imputation of his Righteousness but that is not imputed to any but those in whom his holy righteous divine Life is in some measure brought forth by the Operation of his eternal Spirâ—t to live and reign even in their mortal Bodies and then according to his Promise his Spirit that dwells in them it shall take of his and give it unto them But I have not so learned Christ as to be so easily perswaded out of him neither can all the false Aspersions and ignominious Terms which thou and all that joyn with thee can cast upon his pure holy Way of Truth those that walk therein make me out of Love with it but still his Reproach is greater Riâ—hes then all the Treasures of Egypt And this further I have to say to thee It will 〈◊〉 much more to thy Advantage and Safety to desist from teaching and giving Counsel to others and going about to try their Spirits till thou comest to know the most sure and infallible Guide thy self to try thy own spirit for in this state wherein thou now standest thou art but one of those blind Guides which will assuredly lead all that follow thee into the Ditch and therefore thou wilt do very well to take that good Counsel which Christ gave for it properly belongs to thee Mat. 7. 5. Thou Hypocrite first cast out the Beam that is in thine own Eye and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the Mote that is in thy Brother's Eye Mary Stout REader Note that in part of the Impression of this Book there happened this Mistake in the Title Page line 18. viz. Christian for Convert the Title of J. Crook's Book being the Counterfeit Convert as 't is mention'd in pages 10 35. Pag. 7. line 13. for 18. read Ezek. 28. and for 19. read Mat. 17. p. 32. l. 17 for in Form r. inform The literal defects or any of points may be perceived by the current of the matter