warrant of Christ his power receiued by the holy ghost maie as ministers seruants remit or retaine sins we do most willinglie consent and confesse But then they practise this power as seruants when they beinterpreters and declarers of the Lordes will and pleasure and require not that God should followe their sentence or attend how they be affected to forgiue or retaine and so to subscribe vnto their doing for that is an Antichristian vsurpation farre from the meaning of that power which Christ did graunt to his A postles ALLEN Some holie writers vpon this text of S. Iohn in which the order of Christes authorizing his Apostles for the remission of sinnes is described doe dispute of the difference of giuing the holie Ghost then to his Disciples and afterward on Whitsondaie some note the eternall ceremonie that our Master vsed when he gaue them the holie spirit which was by breathing on them that such outward actions might both be an euidence to them of that excellent gift which they inwardlie then receiued and should further be an euerlasting instruction to the Church that Gods grace and giftes be often ioyned to externall elements for the solace of our nature that delighteth to haue our outward man schooled as wel as the inward man nourished These and manie things moe be of profitable remembrance and consideration but not so much to our purpose Therefore let vs see whether the iudgement of the holie Fathers doe not wholie helpe our present cause prouing the Priests ministerie through the holie Ghostes authoritie that our declaration standing on the plaine wordes of scripture with their vndoubted sense maie obtaine inuincible force against the aduersaries worthie credit of the true beleeuers FVLKE If you had expressed what the writers are that thus dispute or discourse vpon this text we might better haue considred how pertinent or impertinent their opinions are to our matter in controuersie S. Chrysost. seemeth to allowe the opinion of some and Euthymius plainely affirmeth the same that the Apostles at this time did not presentlie receiue the holie ghost but onelie were prepared or made capable thereof which if it were true is contrarie to the title of your Chapter I like better of Cyrillus iudgement which thinketh they presentlie receiued the holie Ghost in some measure but not so plentifullie nor with such diuersitie of giftes as on the daie of Pentecost That the grace of God is testified assured and sealed vp vnto vs for the help of our infirmitie by outward signes and externall elementes ioined thereto we know confesse but as for the solace of our nature or delight to haue our outward man schooled I knowe not what they meane It is great mercie of God to beare with our weakenes but it agreeth not with the discipline of the Gospell that we should delight in outward thinges but rather to exercise our faith in spirituall and heauenlie meditations ALLEN We will make our entrance first with Saint Cyrill whoe debating with himselfe vppon the incomparable authoritie and power giuen to the Apostles for remission of sinnes standeth first as in contention with him selfe and with Christs words how it maie be that they being but men should forgiue the sinnes of our soules being sure of this that it is the propertie onelie of the true liuing god to assoile vs of our sinnes against whom onlie all sins be properlie committed And therfore being not of stomake as men be now a daies to denie that which Christes words so plainelie do import he made answere that the Apostles were in deed deified and made as you would saie partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world Qua igitur ratione saieth he diuinae naturae dignitatem ac potestatem discipulis suis saluator largitus est Quia certè absurdum non est peccata remitti posse ab illis qui Spiritum sanctum in seipsis habeant Nam cùm ipsi remmittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis remittit detines By what meanes did our Sauiour giue vnto the Apostles the preheminence and power of Gods owne nature Surelie because it agreeth verie well that they should rimit mans sins that haue in themselues the holie Ghost For when they assoile or retaine sins it is the holie spirit that dwelleth in them which by their ministery doth remit or retaine sins Thus he I maruell not now whie this same father termeth the Apostles sometimes protectores curatores animarum corporum the protectors curers both of bodies soules it is not strange whie S. Ambrose should call the order of priestood Ordinem 〈◊〉 Neither that he should terme Officium Sacerdotis munus S. S. The Priests office to be the function of the holie Ghost No I doe not wonder at some of our forefathers that in the admiration of Gods Maiestic which they same to be so present in the execution of so high in office they did simplie and plainely terme the principall Pastours of the Church halfe Gods and not meere men not hauing respect to their persons which be compassed with infirmities as other the sinfull sort of people in the world be but casting eie vpward to the holie and excellent function which they practised by the spirit of God which dwelleth in them and deifieth their persons to make them of habilitie to exercise the workes of God FVLKE Saint Cyrill is farre from that blasphemie to saie that the Apostles were in deede deified and made partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world For ascribing to God that which is proper to him incommunicable to anie meere creature he maketh this obiection how our sauiour did graunt to his disciples the dignitie power of his diuine nature answereth that they were only made ministers instruments of the holy ghost to expresse his power in remitting sinnes by baptisme and repentance whereof S. Chrysostome also saieth vpon the same text that the Priest giueth onelie his tongue and his hand but the Father the sonne and the holie Ghost doth all things in this case I will rehearse the whole saying of Cyrillus that his iudgement maie more fullie appeare vpon this text Et certè solius veri Dei est c. And suerlie it pertaineth to the onelie true God that he is able to loose men from their sinnes For to what other person is it lawfull to deliuer the transgressors of the law from sinne but to the author of the law him-selfe for so in mennes affaires we see it to be done For no man without punishment doth reprooue the lawes of Kings but the Kinges them-selues in whome the crime of transgression hath no place For it is wiselie said that he is implous which shall saie to a King thou doest vniustlie By what meanes then did our Sauiour graunt to his disciples the dignitie and power of the diuine nature because trulie it is not absurde that sinnes may be remitted
purpose teaching onelie that we are consecrated or made perfect by baptisme which is true in respect of sanctification and remission of sinnes but prooueth not that concupiscence which you confesse to be an euil thing remaining in the regenerate is chaunged in nature to be no sinne although it be forgiuen and shall not be imputed to the elect For the wrong quoting of Augustine do 〈◊〉 concupiscent You were best quarrell with your printer for Master Charke hath instlie charged your booke with error in the first edition whereunto he answered which you will not vnderstand but charge him with ignorance quarreling and impudencie whereas your quotation was twise lib. de nupt concupiscent And not as you saie now lib. 1. de nupt concupiscent You with that you were with Master Charke to see if he would blush at his ignorance by you discouered and cal backe your wish for feare of purseuants But I looke not at all that your brasen face should blush either at so small a fault or at so false a defense thereof which are not ashamed of a great number of more wrong and impudent quotationes then that is for which though no purseuantes shall attach you yet the reproch of them shall pursue you to the vtter confusion of your proude and arrogant Censure and more impudent and vnlearned defense Finallie Ambrose lib. 1. de voc gent. c. 5. hath not one worde to prooue that concupiscence in the regenerate is no sinne of it selfe But where Master Charke rehearseth not the verie wordes but the meaning of Saint Augustine expounding him-selfe in what sense he saith that concupiscence is not sinne you set abroad all the sailes of your rayling and venemous tongue and penne against him Saint Augustines words are dimitti concupiscentiam carnis in baptismo non vt non sit sed vt in peccatum non imputetur Quamuis autem reatu suo iam soluto manet tamen donec sanetur omnis infirmitas nostra proficiente renouatione interioris hominis de die in diem cúm exterior induerit incorruptionem non enim substantialiter manet sicut aliquod corpus aut spiritus sed affectio est quaedam malae qualitatis sicut languor Concupiscence of the flesh is remitted in baptisme not so that it is not but so that it is not imputed to sinne And albeit the guilt thereof be loosed yet it remaineth vntil al our infirmitie behealed the renuing of the inward man profiting from daie to daie when the outward man shall haue put on incorruption for it remaineth not substantiallie as a bodie or a spirit but it is a certaine affection of euill qualitic as a sickenes These words declare that concupiscence being an affection of euill qualitie which is as much to saie as sinne remaning in the regenerate although it be not imputed to them as sin for that if they 〈◊〉 against it it shall not preuaill against them to condemne them A sinne not imputed is a sinne of his owne nature The sinnes of Gods elect are not imputed to them they are forgiuen the guilt is taken awaie they are washed awaie in the blood of Christ they are as white as wooll and as snowe yet of their owne nature they are foule abhominable and detestable transgressions of Gods lawe so is concupiscence against the lawe thou shalt not lust as Augustine often confesseth therefore of it selfe sinne euen in the regenerate to whome it is remitted The similutude of a sickenes also whereunto Augustine doth often compare it sheweth the same For a sicknes if it be not healed either by strength of nature preuailing or by medicine doth either cause death or remaineth as long as life so concupiscence of itselfe would kill if the medicines of Christs redemption did not ouercome the malice of it and in the ende take awaie the disease from the rootes But for a cleerer proofe Master Charke alledgeth that Saint Augustine in an other place saith plainlie it is sinne You answer that he saith onelie of concupiscence in generall that it is sinne and not of concupiscence in the regenerate But that Saint Augustine speaketh of concupiscence in the regenerate it is manifest by this reason for that he saith concupiscence of the flesh against which the good spirit lustesh which is onelie in the regenerate As he him selfe saith in an other place by you quoted Non enim rectè cuiusquam spiritus concupisceret aduersue carnem suam nisi habitaret in illo spiritus Christi For no mans spirit should rightlie lust against his fiesh except the spirit of Christ did dwell in him But that concupiscence without consent is properlie no sinne you saie Saint Augustine prooneth by the wordes of Paule him-selfe who calleth it sinne in the chapter last remembred but that is false he only retaineth his vsuall acception of the word sinne for actualsin as Saint Iames doth whose termes of conception and bringing forth also he vseth yet he concludeth that concupiscence without consent is euill is to be chastised to be brideled to be fought against to be ouercome which prooueth sufficientlie that it is sinne though not actuall sinne yet properlie sinne from which we can not be deliuered but by the grace of Christ sinne of another kinde sinne in another degree called sinnne in the scripture and therefore without controuersie except we will trifle in vaine contention of termes and childish sophismes where the matter is plaine sinne in deede and properlie which of his owne nature deserueth death but that it is purged by the blood of Christ as all other sinnes of what sort or degree soeuer they be in those that are saued That Saint Augustine vseth other whiles the termes of veniallie and mortallie when he speaketh of sinning it can not defend your distinction wherebie you holde that there be some sinnes so smale as of their owne nasure they deserue not damnation contrarie to the scripture that saith generallie the reward of sinne is death Whereas Saint Augustine meaneth onelie degrees of sinnes whereof some are lesse some are hainous yet all deserue death For Saint Augustine must be vnderstood according to the scripture but the scripture must not be racked to agree with Saint Augustine Hitherto concerning the doctrine of the Iesuites that concupiscence in the regenerate without consent is not sinne Against this doctrine Gotuisus opposeth the wordes of our Sauiour Christ Mat. 5. 28. whosoeuer shall see a woman to lust after her he hath alreadie committed adulterie with her in his heart which text you confirme as you said before to be alledged ignorantlie and against him-selfe because here is a manifest consent of the heart expressed to make concupiscence adulterie And for that purpose you cite Saint Augustine and to all this you aske what sir William replyeth and answer your selfe Surelie nothing but maketh a long idle speake of praedicatum and subiectum as pertinent to the matter as Charing crosse to Billings gate If William Charkes
dare saie of all other actes that be exercised in Christes name in the Church doth not onelie no whit abase Gods excellency but was purposelie instituted to honour the maiestie of God in the face of all people and to set out the glorie of his house how dare any man for feare of Gods high indignation controlle the worke of Christ in remitting mans sinnes by such a visible sacrament as to the honour of God is most conuenient and to our saluation most necessarie If they will not let pristes remit sinnes for feare of offending God and dishonouring his name then let them not baptize not preach not teach not doe miracles not giue the holie ghost not correct faultes not giue orders nor doe any other functions For these euerie one be no lesse proper to God then remission of sinnes FVLKE You ground your argument vpon a sacrament before you haue prooued any The power of remitting sinnes is graunted to be perpetual in the Church and nothing derogatorie to the honour of God But that there is any other sacrament whereby men are assured of the forgiuenes of their sinnes by any externall ceremonie except the sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lordes supper which is the cheife matter in controuersie you goe not once about to prooue If Christs Church were like your Popish Church wherein all thinges are taught by Images dumme ceremonies and the worde of God neuerpreached it might come to passe as you say that it would be forgotten that such power is giuen by God to Christ. But in the Church of God many thinges are remembered by meanes of preaching the Gospell and word of God whereof there is no visible sacrament or ceremony although to helpe our weakenes the mercy of God hath by his sacraments sealed vp the moste necessarie and generail pointes of doctrine of our regeneration to be the Children of God and of our spirituall feeding or norishment to continue vs perpetuallie in the same But whereas you saie that if both sinnes of mans soull and sores of his bodie could not visiblie by externall meanes he healed in the glorious inuoration of Gods name it would surclie be forgottenin the Church of Christ that such power is giuen by God the father to his onelie sonne c. I praie you what externall meanes haue you visiblie to heale the sores of mans bodie by inuocation of Gods name lest it should be forgotten in the Church that the father hath giuen such power to his sonne Will you now send vs to the mocke miracles lying signes regestred in your Legendes wrought at your pilgramages Idolls or in an other worlde by the Iapponical Iesuites These because they are not seene mooue nothing the inwarde man whose minde you saie ful learnedlie will not reach to that inwardelie whereof he hath no proofe nor assurance outwardelie As though faith were not a substance of things that are hoped for and an euidence of things that are not seene Where of the minde of man hath no assurance outwardelie For the sacramentall seales but by faith make no assurance outwardelie Can I gather an assurance but by faith of Gods promise that my bodie being washed outwardelie my soull is clensed inwardelie Is it the receiuing of the outward elements in the Lordes supper that assureth me of my spirituall nourishment to eternall life or faith graunted vpon the worde which comming to the elements maketh them the seales of assurance of gods promises The question you aske of the Prophets foreseeing of things so long before things that afterwarde did fall whether it was graunted with dishonour of God or to his glorie I answere that the propertie of God alone to whome all things are present was not ne could not be communicated to men But God to his glorie by the instrument of their mouth did foreshew those things which he had reuealed vnto thē by his spirit in prophetical vision or dreame Neither could Elizeus see the heart inward thoughts of Gihezei his seruant which is gods onelie propertie but God did reueale and declare vnto him what hipocrisie was hid in the heart of Gihezei so that Elizeus knew no more properlie what was in the heart of Gihezei then any other man to whome Gihezei him-selfe might open his thoughtes sauing that Elizeus knew more certenlie and by 2 more wonderfull meane For to man Gihezei might ly but god who onely searcheth the heart the reines reuealed the truth to Elizeus Neither was Peter and the rest hable by laying on of handes to giue the holy ghost that is the visible gists of the holv ghost but according to gods good pleasure will For Acts. 8. Peter and Iohn sent by the Apostles into Samaria praied for them that were baptized that they might receiue the holie Ghost and after laide their hands vpon them and they receiued from god the sensible graces of the holie ghost as speaking with tongues interpretation of tongues healing of sicknes casting out of deuills and such like Therefore in such wonderfull effects as followed laying on of hands nothing that is most proper to god passed to men But it pleased God who is the onelie author of such graces and gifts to bestow the same by his faithfull stewards at their praier whereunto they were mooued and assisted by him and with that visible sacrament or ceremonie But such ceremonies we haue not for remission of sinnes or reteining of them by Gods institution Therefore no sacrament but a doctrine of remitting or reteining of sinnes ALLEN O heresie most shamefull that then goeth about to dishonour God most when she most pretendeth gods honour whereof shee is so tender and so carefull that shee hath barred his owne spouse of his blessed bodie of remission of sinnes of the spirit of God of all sacraments of all holie ceremonies of memories of miracles of all holie functions and to be short of all gifts and graces and all this for Gods honour so honourable a thing it is for Christ to be the king of so beggerlie a common wealth as they make of the Church such glorie it is for Christ to haue his onelie spouse robbed of the treasures of his giftes and graces so comelie it is for Christ to haue such sacraments as neither conteine him-selfe nor his grace so worthie a thing it is for Christ to haue ministers that vpon his owne warrant can neither pardon nor punish mans misdeedes Gloriosa dicta sunt de te Ciuitas Dei Glorious thinges haue beene reported of thee thou Citie of God and how arte thou now so barrenne and so contemptible that thy honour must needes redound to the dishonour of him by whome all thy honour onelie standeth But I cease to pursue the Churchces enemies now in mine owne wordes I will rather ioyne with the holie fathers for their ouerthrow whose not onelie reason and sufficient answere to this their vaine replie founded on the pretence of Gods honour but also their onelie
that they haue any such power of healing bodelie diseases It is a better reason that you alledge out of Saint Augustine that remission of sinnes in the Church respecteth the iudgement to come but that he speaketh there of any temporal iudgement after this life you are not able to prooue Neither doth the citing of the text of Saint Paull I. Cor. II. helpe you which he citeth to prooue that temporall paines are laide vpon men in this life to them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued to the ende as his wordes are plaine in that wholl Chapter Magis enim propter futurum iudicium fit remissio peccatorum In hac autem vita c. For remission of sins ie made rather for the iudgement to come For in this life it preuaileth so much which is written a heauie yoke vpon the sons of Adam from the daie of their comming forth of their mothers wombe vnto the day of their buriall into the mother of all thus we see euen litle children after the lauer of regeneration to be tormented with the affliction of diuerse euills that we may vnderstand that all which is doue by the healthfull sacraments doth pertaine rather to the hope of good thinges to come then to reteining or obteining things present Manie euills also seeme to forgiuen heere and to be reuenged with no punishments but the paines of them are reseruea vntill afterwarde For not in vaine is that called properlie the daie of iudgement when the iudge of the quicke and the deade shall come As on the contrarie side some things are reuenged heere and yet if they be remitted verilie in the worlde to come they shall not hurt Wherfore of certaine temporall paines which are laid vppon sinners in this life in them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued vnto the ende the Apostle saieth for if we iudged our selues we should not be iudged of the Lord but when we are iudged of the Lord we are chastened that we should not be damned with this worlde Thus it is plaine by Saint Augustines iudgement that Saint Paull speaketh of temporall paines laied vppon sinners in this life to bring them to repentance not of temporal iudgement to be exercised after this life But you meane not that Popes or Bishops pardons should alwaies take away bodelie sicknes because Christ did not so vnto ai Nay rather because they are not able to heale a sore finger in any one man For Christ healed as many as he would if the Pope haue Christs power why should he not as well heale whome he will Your similitude that as Christ tooke away temporall paines so may Popes and priests holdeth not for there is great odds betweene Christ and his seruants he did what he would they may doe no more then he hath giuen chem power and charge And for releasing of times of repentance appointed to satisfie the Church they may by power giuen from him but for the releasing of debt to be paied in the world to come he gaue them neither authority nor cōmaundement That the priest doth dailie heale in your sacrament of aneling it is an impudent lie For first they anoint none in their dailie practize but such as are in dispaire of life of whom if any recouer by the wilof God it is sacriledge to impure it to the power of the priests anointing who hauenot the gift of healing as the elders of the Apostles Church had whome S. Iames willeth to be sent for to heale the diseased ALLEN But in Saint Paull we haue inuincible proofe of the authoritie and iurisdiction of Bishops and princivali pastcurs touching as well the power of enioyned pename and satisfaction for sinnes committed as the lawfull power of pardoning the same which before was enioyned and so in one fact of the Apostle a cleare practize of binding and loosing He first bound him by excommunication that had so greeuouslie offended and to shew what a terrible torment this kinde of panishment is and how much it is to be dred he maketh it euident by a slraunge corporall vexation that all Chrillian men might conceiue the miserie of those persons which be excommunicated hereafter when the externall signe and miraculous torment should ceasse in the Church I wili reporte the matter fullie There was amongst the Corinthians one of reputation that kept vnlawfullie his fathers wife the which being knowne to their Apostle Saint Paul who then was absent srom them and being accounted of him as in deede it was an exceeding grieuous fact and notorious he gaue in charge to the Church of Corinth to take the person that had so offended as excommunicated that is to saie to be separated from the sacraments the seruice and common fellowship of Saints But see with what a maiestie and might of operation with what force of wordes and authoritie of his calling with what a kinde of punishment Christes officer here correcteth the offender Thus runneth his determinate sentence on the offender that all the worlde may take heede and wonder at the Churches authoritie and condemne the vaine voices of them that doe restraine the power of Gods ministers onelie to the preaching of the Gospell I beeing absent in bodie but present in spirit haue alreadie giuen iudgement as well as if I were present that the person that hath thus wickedlie wrought should be deliuered vpto Sathan in the vertue of our Lorde Christ Iesus you there being gathered with my spirit in the name of our said Lord Christ Iesus and all for the vexation of his flesh that his soull may be safe in the daie of our Lord Iesus Christ. This in effect is the Apostles sentence on that incestuous person wherby he was temporallie tormented by the force of Saint Pauls power of binding sinners giuen by Christ and exercised no otherwise as you may see but in Christs vertue holie name Where it may be noted for a strange 〈◊〉 of mans word that the deuill himse fe should be therby appointed to torment a sinners bodie not as he would but as far as the diuine Magistrate shall limit him Diabolus enim quia ad hoc paratus est vt auerses à Deo 〈◊〉 in potestatem audita sententia corripit eos The 〈◊〉 saith Saint Ambrose who is alwaies readie to take them to his power that are turned from God sireight as soone as he heareth the sentence pronounced vpon sinners he doth afflict and correct them As it may also appeere by our Sauiours wordes in the Gospell of a woman that had spiritum infirmitatis the spirit of infirmitie whome the deuill had eighteene yeares together fast bound in sickenes for her sinnes to whome also Christ gaue a pardon by imposition of his holie handes Where we may haue an other example of his mercie in loosing the temporall band and punishment appointed for sinne But let vs turne to Saint Pauls patient whome we left by the key of the
be read of euerie man amonge you with your confutations And Doctor Windham then saide that no wise state would suffer it Neuerthe lesse our state God be thanked vpon conscience of trueth on our side hath with no lesse wisedome then good successe alwaies permitted your bookes with our answers to them to be read of all men to iudge indifferentlie so they conteine nothing but question of religion and not shamefull diffamations and inuectiues against the prince and the state of gouernement which matters deserue to be answered with an axe or an halter rather then with penne and paper But to permitte your bookes vnconfuted to haue free passage althoughe they passe with an hundred times lesse daunger then ours maie doe among you as you require it were neither wisedome godlines equitie nor reason AN OVERTHROVVE OF THE ANSVVERE TO Master Charkes preface touching Discerning of Spirites M. Chark beside the matter in question c. IF this answerer beside the matter in question had not made manie vnnecessarie and vnpertinent digressions the substance of his answere might haue bene contained almoste in as fewe lines as nowe it filleth leaues The triall of the Spirites which Saint Iohn requireth that is by the kinde of doctrine in teaching Christ and not the qualitie of the teachers Master Charke desireth the aduersaries refuse allowing nothing finallie but the onelie and falselie named title of the Catholike Church of Rome for them-selues and accusations of the persons some perhapes true some vtterlie false against vs. To this practize so manie popish treatises and this especiallie in hand doe giue testimonie This is the summe of Master Charkes preface Nowe commeth our answerer and because he had manie by-quarrels to deliuer he taketh occasion to vtter them in this place though litle or nothing pertaining to the direct confutation of Master Charkes preface First he chargeth Master Charke to saie that the Papists refuse Saint Iohns triall which is false for their bookes are extant wherebie they haue called to triall all sectaries of our time among whome he nameth Munster and Stancarus against whome I neuer heard what Papists haue exercised their style especiallie Stancarus holding one principle comming verie neare to their position of Christs priesthood to be onelie according to his manhood as Stancarus taught that Christ was a mediatour onelie after his humanitie but reade their bookes who shall and he must needes confesse Master Charkes saying to bee true For first or last they draw all triall to Rome and not to examine which doctrine giueth al glorie to God by Iesus Christ our onelie Sauiour which is the scope of Saint Iohns triall But if wee had not desired triall of Spirites saith he wee would not haue laboured so much to obteine the same of our aduersaries in free printing preaching or disputation You speake of great labor which none of vs euer heard that you tooke except it were in spreading a fewe coppies of Campians seditious libell not to the end of triall of spirites for discerning of trueth but to the stirring vp of mens bodies and mindes to treason and rebellion as the like labors by the like messengers tooke effect and make manifest demonstration in Ireland But if free printing preaching and disputation be a goodway for discerning of Spirites that Christ maie be knowne from Antichrist whie doe not you Papists graunt the same in Spaine Italie and other countreis thrall to the Popes tirannie yet assaulted by the doctrine of the gospell as by the power of Christ against Antichrist if it be not a good waie as it seemeth you thinke because you take it not your selues how can you saie that you require in those places this triall of spirites No no it is an other triall of the sharpest swordes that you meane when you require such triall of Spirites You adde further of the aduenturing of your liues in comming and offering the same to vs at home with so vnequall conditions on your side as you haue done and dailie doe for the triall of trueth There is no daunger of life among vs in offering the triall of Spirites according to Saint Iohns rule but in seeking to auerte the Queenes subiects from their duetifull obedience vnto her Maiestie to make a waie for the execution of the Popes moste blasphemous and traiterous Bull and this hath procured moste iuste and necessarie execution of some fewe of you and not as you slaunder iustice that offering to trie the truth hath obtained nothing hitherto but offence accusations extreame rackings and cruell death Againe these inequall conditions these daily offers these manie petitions and supplications that you speake of whoe hath made to whome haue they bene offered when were they presented where were they seene or heard by whome were they refused except Campians ridiculous challenge be all in all with you But what will a Papist spare to affirme that he maie make falsehood haue some likly shape of truth yet being admitted that you offer trial it must be seene whoe doe offer best meanes of triall And here you will endeuour to shew that all meanes of triall which Master Charke and his fellowes will seeme to allow in worde For they offer none in deede are neither sure possible nor euident but meere shifts to auoide all triall and that your selues do offer all the best and surest waies of triall that euer weere vsedin the Church for discerning an hereticall spirit from a Catholike Your indeuour is great but your abilitie is small for you shall neuer be able to demonstrate either the one or the other howsoeuer with vaine sophistications and wrested authorities you seeke to dasell the eies of the simple Let vs heare therefore howe you beginne The onelie meanes of triall you say which Master Charke will seeme to allowe is the scripture But this is a shift common to all heretikes especiallie of our time First you slaunder Master Charke in saying that he alloweth the scripture to be the onelie meanes of triall of spirites whereof he speaketh not at all in this preface but of triall of spirites by the doctrine of Christ which is moste plainlie and certenlie set forth in the holie scriptures and therefore by the holie scriptures the doctrine maie best and moste certenlie be tried and iudged But that Master Charke by referring him selfe to the holie scriptures onelie as suffiâ—â—â—n and â—â—le to decide all controuersies of Religion doth denie or exclude all other meanes of 〈◊〉 whereby the true meaning of the scripture may be knowne it is impâ—dent he affirmed without either proofe or likelihood of truth as hereafter more plainlie will appeare Saint Augustine as though he were an enimie of conâ—â—â—â—ing heresies by the authoritie of the scriptures onelie is quoted in the margent de nupt Concup lib 2. cap. 31 whose words are these Non est miâ—â—am si Pelagiani dicta nostra in sensus 〈◊〉 volunt detoâ—quere conaâ—tur quando de scripturis sanctis non vbi obscurè
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
testament Sozomenus in the place by you cited after he hath commended the Philosophie or contemplatiue life of the solitarie men in those daies hath these wordes of this excellent Philosophie was the beginner as some saie Elias the Prophet and Iohn Baptist so that it is not so absolute as you sett it downe but as some saie and it is of a Philosophicall studie and life in which if comparison be made with Popish Monkes for one thing which they haue like they haue three things vnlike or contrarie to the profession and practise of those auncient Monachi which might haue some resemblance with the manner of Elias life in some thinges and were more agree able to the example of the sonnes of the Prophets which were students in diuinitie as those olde Monks of the primitiue Church readie to serue in the place of teachers whensoeuer they were called That antiquity onely should let the Prophets to be examples of monasticall life it is your owne vaine collection and as vaine is your comparison of Adam to be a paterne of marted men Abel of sheepherdes Caine of husband men c. For M. Charke asketh what you are able to bring out of the word of God why Elias should after more then two thousand yeares be brough in for a patrone of friers which for so manie yeares could neuer be espied in the Church either of the Iewes or of the Christians As for the estate of maried men sheepherds husbandmen citizens Tentdwellers musitians smithes c. is either necessarie or otherwise commendable then by the examples of those auncients of which some in respect of their antiquitie are not to be followed at all as Cain and the rest of his cursed line who yet were inuenters of profitable artes by the gift of God and not by the worthines of the persons As for the slate of the Munkes and friers such as we striue about is neither necessarie nor profitable to the Church but a great infection and poison of the same Nowe whether Iohn Baptist were a president to Monkes whome Master Chark saith to haue beene an extraordinarie and perpetuall Nazarite whose example is not now laid vpon them that teach in the Church you answere that he doth wilfullie mistake the question for that you affirme not that such extraordinarie austeritie is laid vpon anie man of necessitie but that it is lawfull and maketh no sect when it is voluntarilie taken and vsed You do wilfullie omit the pith of Master Charkes argument who is not ignorant of your pretense of voluntarie but addeth that the seuerall offices of those that teach in the Church are expressed in the word of God and therefore there can be no new order of Ministers by anie title or voluntarie assumption but it is a suspitious sect howsoeuer seuerall persons maie as they see iust cause more or lesse prescribe vnto them-selues some extraordinarie austeritie of life for their priuate exercise or chastisment That Saint Iohns austeritie was for the moste parte voluntarie and not of necessitie of the vocation of a Nazarite it is fondlie proued of you by example of the superstitious sect of the Essenes described by Plinie and Iosephus of which Plinie speaketh verie little but Iosephus at large and in some points of austeritic noteth them to exceede any thing that we read in scripture of Saint Iohn Baptist as of their continuall exercise in labour of their handes their forbearing to spitte in the assemblies of men their forbearing to ease their bodies on the sabboth daie and such like superstitious toies Now the austeritie of Saint Iohn in that he did willinglie and not by compulsion vndergo it maie be called voluntarie otherwise in that it was appointed by the wisdome of god whose spirit directed him it was necessarie and especially for the forerunner of Christ to sing the dolefull song and to call the people to repentance and therefore not without presumption drawne into example by them that are neither led with the same spirit nor called to the same office and so no example nor platforme for the superstitious order of Monkes and friars albeit they alwares kept as great austeritie in deede as they professe in wordes But it is a wonderfull argument for your Monkes that the Nazarites did make a religious vow for their dedication to God as your religious people do also vse For it were somewhat that you saie if you could bring as good warrant for the vowes of your Popish votaries to be prescribed and accepted of God as you bring for the vow of the Nazarites otherwise it maie be said vnto you by God as he speaketh by the Prophet quis requisiuit c. who required these things at your handes which if it were said of those things which in some manner and to some end were required how iustlie maie it be spoken of these that in no manner nor to anie end are by God required at your handes but that Saint Iohn was a Monk of the new Testament and a patron of monasticall life although you confesse it to be more then you were bound to prooue so manie fathers as you name do testifie with one consent And what if he were an example followed of those Monkes that liued in moste of those fathers times is he therefore a patrone to your Popish Monkes of these late daies and new orders it will be more then hard for you to prooue that Now let vs consider your authorities which you affirme to testifie that Saint Iohn was a Monk of the new testament and a patterne of monasticall life First Gregorie Nazian orat de S. Bas. 1. hath this testimonie onelie he compareth Basill with Saint Iohn Baptist as resembling him in some thinges as he doth with Peter Paul Iohn the Euangelist and Stephan except you will saie theese were all Monkes Chrisostome in deed Hom. 1. in Mark. calleth Saint Iohn prince of the Monasticall life but not a Monke of the new testament as I haue shewed before in answer to your preface Neither doth Saint Ierome epist. ad Eustoch saie that Saint Iohn was a Monke and patterne of Monasticall life but speaking of the life of an Anachoret which liued by him-selfe alone in the wildernesse he saith huius vitae auctor Paulus illustrator Antonius vt ad superior a conscendam princeps Iohannes Baptista fuit Of this life Paul was the author Anthonie the beautifier and that I maie ascend higher the Prince or cheefe was Iohn Baptist. Where is Iohn Baptist the Monke or patterne of your Papisticall monkish life when they liued not in the wildernes but in cities populous townes not in caues and tents but in gorgious palaces Although Saint Iohn be the cheife of them that liued in the wildernes the same Ierome in the life of Paule the Heremite whome before he calleth the author of the Anachorites life hath these wordes Inter multos saepe dubitatum est à quo potissimùm monachorum eremus habitari
the noble virgine Eustochium testified how litle he preuayled with such immoderate austerity to subdew the lust of his slesh vntil by importunitie of prayers he obteined rest of his vnquiet minde from Christ. Although his wordes be not as you haue set them downe that his skinne was as blacke as an Ethiopian but his deformed skinne was growen ouer with the hearines or scurffe of an Ethiopians flesh squalida cutis situm aethiopicae carnis obduxerat In the margent you note that we will saie Saint Hierome was noe Protestant I answere although we cannot allow Saint Hierome or any man that by hurting his bodelie health with immoderate rigour of austere life bringeth his natural life in daunger yet doe we imbrace S. Hierome as a member of the true Church of Christ whoe trusted not in any merite of such chaistisment but onelie in the mercie of God by Iesus Christ. The like we say of any examples of godlie men that are brought by Cassianus whoe is not altogether so olde as you make him Your rayling and seoffing at Peter Martyr I omitte as meete for such a Censurer but where you charge him to iest at Saint Basill and Saint Gregorie Nazianzen for hard handling of their owne bodies in cap. 16. lib. 3. Reg. your note boke deceiued you for in his comment vpon the Chapter he hath no such matter His iudgement els where may be to this effect That notwithstanding the examples of the auncient godlie fathers yet it is neither lawfull nor expedient for a man with such rigour to handle his bodie as it be not able to serue him in his calling For as chastisement of the bodie to bring it in subiection is sometime necessarie So weakening of the bodie to make it vnable to serue the spirit in such outward actions as require the vse of the bodie is neither wisedome nor godlines what examples soeuer be pretended For as it is not lawfull for a man vnder any pretense of mortifying his flesh to kill him selfe so it is not lawfull for any man to torment his bodie aboue the strength thereof wherby sicknes must needes follow and death may ensue For against all examples of godlie men that can be alledged to the contrary we will oppose the wisdome of the holy ghost in his elect vessel S. Paul whoe calleth Timothie from such austeritie wherebie his health was impaired vnto a moderate vse of gods creatures Drink no more water saith he butvse a litle wine because of thy stomach and often infirmities 1. Tim. 5. 23. According to the proportion of which rule if many of the examples before remembred were exacted they may perhapes declare a zeale in the persons but such as is not guided by knowledge of Gods will reuealed in the scriptures Where you saie If the Ministers of England would vse this cooling phisick there should be fewer Eatons and Hynches openlie punished or flie the countrie for incest rape you would insinuate that for lacke of chastisement of mens bodies so great enormites breake out and in part it may be true so you touch none but such as are guilty who when they be discouered by your owne confession are not winked at in our Church but openlie punished what discipline soeuer you vse when anie of your Iesuites are ouertaken with such offences The number God be thanked of such offenders among vs is not great how small chastisement soeuer you thinke the Ministers doe vse and therefore no cause why you should amplifie them in the plurall number as though for one Eaton or one Hynch there had beene ten of each sorte at the least Too manie we confesse of one but fewer then one there could not be except there had beene none Howbeit we praise God that so fewe haue geuen such offence in so long peace of the Church and praie God they be the last Yet are they a small matter for you to insult against vs if you looke homewarde where for two you may easilie finde two hundred and for two poore Ministers manie of your great prelates yea your Popes by confession of your owne historians haue not beene behind any examples of incontinencie and filthines But if we will not practise this remedie our selues for contristing or making sad the holie ghost within vs which you saie is our phrase yet you will vs not to impute it as schisme and heresie to them which vse it moderatlie as we maie imagine the Iesuites will being not fooles nor hauing iron bodies but sensible as ours are Hereto I answer that the remedie of incontinencie we learne out of the scriptures and haue no neede of your instruction for such matters if God geue vs grace to practise that which we learne out of his word The phrase whereat you scoffe is not ours but vsed by the holie Ghost him-selfe though in a farre other sense then you ascribe it to vs in which meaning you will sooner be hanged for a traitour then you are able to prooue that anie approoued Minister of ours hath euer vsed the same in speach or writing Among the familie of loue perhappes which are catercosins with you Papistes you may finde such blasphemous abusers of holie phrases of scripture The imputing to schisme or heresie ariseth of the Iesuites profession and practise which in such doinges pretend a greater merit and perfection then God requireth of Christians Otherwise we doubt not but many of the Iesuites can fauour them-selues wel enough in their voluntarie whipping especiallie those of our nation or of anie other except the Spaniardes among whome the reliques of the olde whipping heretikes haue continued so ranke in some that they haue beene seene in England to endure greeuous whipping for other mens sinnes that liked not to suffer such penannce in their owne persons The following of one mans rule you sate can make no diuision because it is but a particular direction of life and manners grounded one the seriptures and practise of the fathers and alowed by the superiours of the Church But here you assume more then wil be graunted for neither is the rule of Laiolas grounded one the scriptures neither haue the gouernours of the Church authoritie to allowe anie such rule and last of all it is so newe that it hath no practise of the auncient fathers to shadow it The first is prooued before the second dependeth vpon the first and the last of the newnes is manifest of it selfe But all this while you haue supposed that Master Charkes reportes of the Iesuites life and vocation were true which is false for there was neuer anie that tooke a vowe to whippe them-selues and much lesse to doe it after the example of a sect called by the name of whippers condemned long agoe Here beside a double cauill is nothing worthie the answering for Master Charke meaneth not that their vowe is to followe the condemned whippers but that this whipping is after the example of that condemned sect in that they wippe and torment
such like being Papistes might write eleuen score lies against Luther Zuinglius Oecolampadius Caluine Beza and the rest Concerning the reporte of Prateolus that Luther should be begotten of a deuill you saie Master Charke greatlie bewraieth his fasehoode and after you haue set downe the reporte of Prateolus vnperfectlie you praise his modestie and blame the bolde impudencie of William Charke in saying he auoucheth that which he auoucheth not But where doth William Charke faie that Prateolus doth auouch it his wordes are of a slaunder laid downe against Martin Luther how he was begotten of a deuill which you confesse that Prateolus reporteth as he doth in deede out of Coclaeus and Cocleus out of other mens writings whether Prateolus him-selfe doth credit it altogether or no it skilleth not this slaunder among other he laieth downe against Luther and fauoureth the reporte of other so farre that he woulde haue it seeme credible but as for saying that he auoucheth it Master Chark speaketh not one whit Let the Reader therefore iudge who bewraieth his falsehood in this point and vppon whome the reproch of bolde impudencie maie iustlie be laid But Master Charke sheweth as great fullie as impudencie if we beleeue you in making mention of such a foule matter whereupon at the least remaineth a shamefull suspicion In deede it is the triumph of slaunderers if they cannot kill with their stroke yet to leaue a scarre where the wound is healed Although the slaunder of a matter so impossible leaueth no suspition in anie mans head that hath anie witte or vnderstanding in it but discouereth the malice and follie of the inuenters of such monstrous slaunders yet you affirme that the probabilitie of the thing seemeth to haue beene so great in those daies as Erasmus beleeued it But here you go asfarre beyond the modestie of your author Prateolus as ere while you charged Master Charke to be runne For his wordes are these Adhans historiam alludere alicubi Erasmum non est à vero alienum to this story it is not altogether vnlikelie or straunge from the trueth that Erasmus doth in some place allude he saith not that Erasmus did beleeue it No he is not able to prooue that Erasmus did obiect it For the speech of Erasmus is onelie of certaine vncleane speeches where with he complaineth that he was vniustlie charged by Luther in that vnmodest epistle which you translate drunken Now saie you if Master Charke will stand vpon the deniall not so much of the fact as of the nature of the thing it selfe as impossible that spirites can so abuse lewd women that will consent to their lustes you will oppose against him S. Augustine which saith it were impudencie to denie it and Ludouicus viues vpon the same place Sir Cauiller the thing in question is not whether foule spirites maie abuse the bodies of lewd women for beside the authoritie of Saint Augustine who standeth moste vpon testimonies we haue the testimonie of Wierus a man verie expert in such matters who maketh reporte of diuers Nunnes so abused by vncleane spirites yea of diuers Nunneries in which manie were so dealt with all and namelie a notable nunnerie in the borders of the prouince of Collene where the deuill in the likenes of a dogge in the daie time was seene to fall vppon them in moste beastlie manner about 26. yeares agoe Also the Nunnerie of Nazareth in Collen Anno 1564. where the Nunnes in most filthie manner suffered the same illusion oftentimes in the presence and sight of manie But the matter in controuersie is whether Luther were begotten of a Deuill in deniall where of Master Chatke doth stand becuase it is impossible that although the Deuill should abuse the bodie of a woman yet that a man should be borne or gotten by such illusion which neither Augustine affirmeth nor Ludouicus Viues And if you dare auouch that the deuill can begette a childe as it seemeth you would draw your argument to prooue the probabilitie of Luthers conception by such deuillish abusement we will be bolde to saie that you are worthie to be whipt out of the Schooles of Philosophers Phisitians and Diuines if you dare not abide by it to what end do you oppose Saint Augustine and Ludouicus Viues against him Touching the matter of the thunderbolte you saie Master Charke denieth it stoutlie confidentlie and I knowe not how But in trueth Master Charke saith that it is of it selfe vncredible that you saie Luther was stroken with a thunderbolte which would haue taken awaie life or lefte a marke behinde it Neuertheles you williustifie your saying by testimonie of Malancthon who saith he suffeted great terrors that yeare in which he lost his com panion slaine I know not by what chaunce and by Luthers owne confession that he was called by terrours from heauen and for feare of death vowed to be a frier yet neither of these doe prooue either that he was ouerthrowne or striken with a thunderbolte The reportes of Lindane Prateolus and such like you cannot enforce vs to beleeue who sought by all meanes to deface both the person and doctrine of Luther But whether he were ouerthrowne by lightning as Prateolus saith or by feare seeing his fellow flaine by the same and so vowed a superstitious vow it is not greatlie materiall That the deuill cried out of his mouth we hold it still for a verie fable vntill you bring better proofe then the report of Luthers aduersaries Lindane and his fellowes Your ribaudrie termes of Luther coping with a nunne and your blasphemous scoffing ofhis lying with a nunne in the Lord I cōmit to the vengeance of him that is the instituter of holie matrimonie That many of the auncient fathers iudged it vnlawfull for vowed persons to marrie it is not denied of our parte but then it is to be vnderstood of them which maried not for necessitie but for wantones and for such as made vowes aduisedly not rashlie voluntarilie and not by compulsion For of them that could not conteine after they had vowed virginitie I haue shewed before the plaine testimonies of Saint Hierome and Epiphanius Now are we come to those nine articles of Doctrine with which you haue charged Luther how iustlie we shall see by by The first is that you affirmed Luther to teach that there is no sinne but incredulitie neither can a man damne him-selfe doe what mischeefe he can except he will refuse to beleeue To this Master Hanmer answereth that all sinnes proceade of the roote of incredulitie as al good workes from the roote of faith but this you will not vnderstand and bring in a contradiction of Master Charkes which doth pronounce that in wordes and matter you reporte an open vntruth And so you doe for any thing that you bring in your defense For Luther saieth not absolutely but in comparison that there is no sinne but vnbeleefe as our sauiour Christ sayth to the Pharisies if you were blinde you should
witnesses concerning the rumor of Martine Luthers departure out of this life But Hosius was a Bishoppe and a Cardinall forsooth as though a malitious Papist when he hath a white rochet put on his backe or a redde hat clapt on his head were sopriuileged by his titles that he must needes be credited though he lie neuer so impudentlie Touching the dissention of Luther with others that professed the Gospell Master Charke doth graunt that in some points he disagreed from them and yet he saith there was a singular care among them of the vnitie in the Gospell But this our defender taketh in so euill part that he calleth it in tollerable impudencie speciallie that for profe thereof Master Charke citeth the acte of concorde agreed vpon at Marpuge Anno. 1529. vpon the reporte of Brentius which since hath shewed him selfe an obistinate heretike and author of the opinion of the vbiquitie of Christes bodie who reporteth that the Zuinglians were vanquished and yet he giueth them this testimonie that they desired with teares to be called bretheren which Luther refused But what the agreement was the booke of Acts printed both in Latine and Dutch doth testifie vnto the worlde The 15. Chapter of which conuention con cerning the matter in controuersie was this Credimus profitemur omnes de caena domini nostri Iesu Christi Vsum illius sub vtraque specie iuxea Christi institutionem obseruandans dum esse Quodque missanon sit vllum eiusmodi opus quo alto alteri qutsquam siue mortuo siue viuo gratiā consequi possit Quod item sacramentum altaris sit sacramentum veri corporis sanguinis Iesu Christi Et quòd esus spiritualis eius 〈◊〉 corporis sanguinis sit vnicuique Christiano homini inprimis necessarius Adhaec quòd vsus huius sacramensi perinde atque verbum ipsum à Deo opt max. sit institutus atque ordinatus ad excitandas ad fidem infirmas hominum conscientias per spiritum sanctum Quanquam autem inter nos hactenus non planè potuit conuenire num verum corpus 〈◊〉 sanguis Christi pani ac vino corporaliter insit debebit nihilominus tamen vtraque pars altera erga alteram declarare Christi anam charitatem quatenus idomnino cuiusque conscientia ferre potest Et vtraque pars deum opt max. diligenter precabiturrot is nobis per spiritum suum verum eius rei intellectum constabilire dignetur Amen Martinus Lutherus Ioann Brentius Iustus Ionas Ioan Oecolampadius Philippus Mclancthon Huldricus Zuinglius And. Ostander Martinus Bucerus Stephan Agricola Gaspar Hedio We all beeleeue and profes concerning the supper of our Lord Iesus Christ that the vse thereof in both kinds according to the institution of Christ is to be obserued And that the masse is not any such work whereby any one man may obtaine grace for another whether he be dead or a liue Also that the sacrament of the altar is the sacrament of the true body blood ofIesus Christ. And that the spirituall eating of the same his body blood is very necessary for euery Christian man Moreouer that the vse of this sacrament euē as the word it selfe is instituted ordeined of almighty God to stir vp vnto faith the weake consciences of men by his holie spirite And although it could not hetherto be altogether agreed amongst vs whether the true bodie and true blood of Christ be in the bread and wine corporallie yet neuer 〈◊〉 both parties ought to declare Christian charitie one towards the other so farre as euerie mans conscience can beare And both partes shall diligentlie pray vnto almightie God that he by his spirite may vouchsafe to establish vnto vs the true vnderstanding of that matter Amen Martine Luther c. The subscriptionof their names appeareth before You heare how farre forth they agreed and to a full 〈◊〉 indeed the Lutherans could neuer be brought nor Luther himselfe who in this point was out of measure hard intractable which seeing it is not denied by Master Charke or any of vs it is altogether needles that our defender spendeth two leaues and more in citing testimonies of his dissent from the rest that professe the Gospell which he calleth Zuinglians and Caluinists And to make the matter more large he 〈◊〉 the writings of Brentius Stankatus Ochinus men fallen from the truth into open errors condemned of all pattes against the professors of the truth But what care the godlie had to maintaine the vnitie of the Gospell may appeere by the harmonic of confessions of so manie diuerse Churches in the somme of Christian Religion and doctrine of the most necessarie points of faith vnto eternall saluation thoroughlie agreeing within them selues and against the heresies of the Papists and all other sectaries both olde and new That the Lutherans notwitstanding continue still their vncharitable iudgement against the other it is in deede to be lamented but yet noe cause for Papists to reioyce whoe whether it be by vs or them in al other points of their heresies are beaten downe and brought to confusion And still that remaineth true that Master Charke saide of Oecolampadius Bucer others although in some pointes they disagreed from Luther and other of his side yet was there among them a singular care of vnitie in the Gospell The entercourse of louing letters that you so earnestly require may be seene among Caluins epistles where there are louing letters betweene Caluine Melancthon Vitus Theodorus and other And now we are come to the odious inuectiues against the liues of Caluine and Beza taken out of a vile libell written by Ierome Bolsec an vnlearned vngodlie and vnshamefast knaue who once was a Carmelite frier and flying from his cloister came first aud deceiued the Dachesse of Ferrara for a time but his knauerie being knowne and he espied he was banished from her and then within three daies studie he professed him selfe to be a Phisition and came to Geneua where being contemned of the learned in that science he would take vpon him to be a diuine openly inueighed against the doctrine of prae destination not as a Papist out as a meere Pelagian for which he was condemned and banished the Citie and after for like troubles he was twyse banished the territorie of Berna After that when he thought the Churches of Fraunce should haue continued in peace he fained repentance and sought reconciliation of the Church of Geneua labouring ambitiouslie to be admitted into the ministery but when warre persecution befel vnto the Church contrary to his expectation he returned to his leech craft and reuolted againe to Poperte and in satisfaction of his Apostasie hath forged and refined these lies against Caluine and Beza Anp this is that reuerend man whome our defender commendeth for wisedome learning and honestie Whose impudent slaunders with noc indifferent man can finde anie credit seeing all law and common equitie alloweth exception against such a vile person to be
30. entreating vpon this place Illud verò non praetermittendum quòd quando peccata paralytici dimisit non apertè potestatem suam manifesiauit Non enim dixit dimitto tibi peccata tua sed dimittuntur tibi peccata tua inimicis autem vrgentibus manifestius suam potestatem oftendit Ait enim vt sciatis quia potestatem habet filius bominis in terra peccata di mittere perpendisne quam longè abest vt nolit aequalis patri putari non enim dixit potestatem habere à deo filium hominis aut quia dedit sibi Deus potestatem sed potestatem habet filius hominis nec ad gloriam dico ait sed vt vobis persuadeam quia non blasphemo cùm meip sum patri aequalem faciam But this thing is not to be passed by that when he forgaue the sins of the palsy man he did not openlie manifest his power for he did not saie I forgiue thee thy sinnes but thy sinnes are forgiuenthes But when his enimies vrged him hee showeth his power more manifestlie for he saith that you maie knowe that the sonne of man hath power on earth to forgiue sinnes Doest thou not marke howe farre of it is that he would not bee thought equall to his father for he saide not that the sonne of man hath power from God or that God hath giuen him power but the sonne of man hath power neither saith he doe I speake it for to glorie in but that I might perswade you that I doe not blaspheme when I make my selfe equall with my father The same interpretatiō hath Euthymius vpon the place S. Ambrose also acknowledgeth the diuinitie of Christ to be prooued by forgiuenes of sinnes in Luc. 5. Cognosce interioris hominis sanitatem cui peccata donantur quae cùm Iudoaei asserunt a solo Deo posse donari deum vtique confitentur suoque iudicio perfidiam suam produnt vt opus astruant personam negent c. Acknowledge the healing of the innar man to whome his sinnes are forgiuen which when the Iewes doe affirme that they can be forgiuen by God alone they do confesse verely that he is god by their owne argument bewray their falshoode that they allowe his worke and denie his person Therefore euen of them the sonne of god receiueth testimonie of his worke requireth not the suffrage of their voice For falshoode can confesse but it cannot beleeue Therefore there wanteth no testimonie to his diuinitie but faith is wanting to their saluation for both it is more straunge for credit which they confesse vnwilling and also more pernitious to their fauls that they denie which are conuinced by their owne assertions Great therefore is the madnes of the vnfaithfull people that when they haue confessed that it pertaineth to God onelie to forgiue sinnes they will not giue credit to God when he doth forgiue sinnes And a litle after where he also acknowledgeth the power of remitting sinnes which is graunted to men he doth neuerthelesse affirme that God onelie doth forgiue sinnes Quamuis igitur magnum sit hominibus peccata dimittere quis enim potest peccata dimittere nisi solus Deus quiper eos quoque dimittit quibus dimittendi tribuit potestatein tamen multò diuinius est resurrecti onem donare corporibus For although it be a great thing to forgiue sinnes to men for who can forgiue sinnes but god alone whoe also forgiueth by them to whome he hath giuen power of for giuing yet it is a much more diuine worke to giue resurrection to mens bodies This 〈◊〉 of S. Ambrose sheweth not onelie that Christ by his diuine power as god forgaue sinnes in this place but that God onelie doth properlie 〈◊〉 when he vseth the ministery of men so that not 〈◊〉 S. Hilarie but euen the consent of al the auncient writers is a gainst your new imagination ALLEN But to returne 〈◊〉 to our 〈◊〉 when Christ had declared that the Sonne of man had in earth power to remit sinnes he then by this farther proofe and argument ouerturneth the wholl cause of their 〈◊〉 and inward 〈◊〉 against him for the same whether is it more easie to saie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee or to saie to the incurable person take vp thy bed and walke I due the one in all your sightes and he is cured at my worde why then mistrust you the other It was no lesse the propertie of God alone to he all him sodainlie of his corporall infirmitie that had beene desperatclie sicke so long then to forgiue sinnes but the one power though by 〈◊〉 it was proper to him selfe yet he gaue it in the sight of you all to the sonne of man in earth why then mistrust you but he might well giue the other This reason proceeding from the wisedome of Gods owne sonne shall helpe our faith much touching this article and shall not a litle further the dignitie of the 〈◊〉 whoe also after their masters example may prooue the force of their authoritie vppon mennes soules which cannot be open to our bodelie eyes by the apparant power that their wordes shal be seene openlie to worke on mens bodies especiallie if it be well weighed that Christ wrought miracles also not onelie by the excellent dominion and force of his godhead but also as Saint Augustine prooueth by the spirts of God in respect of his manhoode In quo spiritu sanflo saith he operatus est virtuies dicens Si ego in spiritu dei eiicto daemonia certè superuenit in vosregnum Dei In the pow er of which holie ghost Christ wrought miracles according to his owne saying in these words if I expel out deuils by the spirit of god then surelie the kingdome of God wil come on you The Iews therefore seing themselues thus ouercome in their cogitatiòns waxed affraied and glorified God who gaue such power to men For though no man euer had equall authoritie or like power to Christ who was both God and man yet of this plentifull spirit and vnction manie of his brethren haue through his ordinance recciued part as shortlie now is shall be prooued In the meane time arme thy selfe against 〈◊〉 with this approoued and certaine trueth that not onelie God by his passing prerogatiue maie forgiue sinnes but that he hath so soueraignclie 〈◊〉 Christ our Priest and head that as he is man and occupieth the said functions in earth he maie remit by the vertue of the holie Ghost our offences also 〈◊〉 That which before but doubtinglie and vnder correction of better learned men you propounded to the end that like a subull serpent you might writhe in your head now as a conquerer of the wholl cause you thrust in your wholl bodie and as though you had gained your purpose you affirme steadfastlie that although it was no lesse the propertie of God alone to heale the man sodainelie of his corporall infirmitie then to forgiue sinnes yet as he gaue the one power to
though vnperfect as they proceede from vs vnpure and vnworthie vessells yet neuerthelesse to be acceptable before God vnto rewarde which he giueth of meere mercie and not of merite or deserte Therefore there is no shadow for Popish pardons to shroude themselues vnder the winges of the good workes of Saintes which are the fruites of faith to declare them to be iustified not anie cause by which in the sight of God they can appeare iust and much lesse be able to iustifie other ALLEN Would God euerie man could feele how happie a thing it is to dwell as brethren together in the house of God vnder the appointed Pastours of that familie in which onelie Gods fauour is euerlastinglie found that they might therewith be partakers of all their workes that feare God might haue some sense and taste of that holie ointment of Gods spirite and gift of his grace that first was vpon the head of this householde our Master Christ Iesus and then dropped downe abundantly to his beard euen to the verie beard of Aaren whereby as S. Augustine saith the holie Apostles be signified and by them is ishued downe to the homme of Christes coate and imbrued all the borders of his garments that euerie one of the felowship might receiue benefite and feele the verdure thereof Quoniam 〈◊〉 mandauit Dominus benedictionem vitam vsque in seculum For in this happie felowship onlie our Lord bestoweth his manifold blessinges and life for euermore Amen FVLKE Who so looketh for sense from anie other fountaine or beginning then from the head alone shall feele no more then a stone But who so thorough faith is become a liuelie member of the mystical body of Christ by the operation of his holie spirite shall vndoubtedlie haue a moste sweete feeling of that moste happie spirituall coniunction of himselfe first vnto the heade which is Christ then vnto his bodie which is the Church and maie cheerefullie sing with Dauid Beholde how good and pleasant a thing it is that breethren dwel together But such is the abundance of grace and vertue in the head Christ that he seeketh not for merite or desert in himselfe or in anie of his fellow members although he receiue the gracious ointment of spirituall doctrine as S. Augustine doth expound it flowing from Christ to his Apostles and from them into all parts of his Church by which he is not taught to trust in himselfe or to depend vpon other mens merits or pardons but to repose the wholl hope of his saluation deliuerance from the wrath of God in the merites and satisfaction of Iesus Christ his heade towhome with the father and the holy ghost be euerlasting praise of our redemption reconciliation saluation glorification in his holie Church and felowship of Saints throughout all generations world without ende Amen God be praysed for euer AN APOLOGIE OF THE PROFESSORS OF THE GOSPEL IN FRAVNCE AGAINST THE RAILING DECLAMATION OF PEter Frarine a Louanian turned into English by Iohn Fowler Written by William Fulke AN APOLOGIE AGAINST THE RAILING DECLAMATION OF PETER FRARINE IT is pitie that the president of the Quodlibeticall disputations of Louane had no more discretion then to propounde in steede of exercises of learning a question perteining to the estate and doeings of other people with whome neither the speaker nor the hearers had any thing to doe neither were hable by knowledge of their affaires to discearne the cause nor by authoritie of their place to decide the controuersie But seeing they are disposed otherwise then wise men woulde be to be curious in a foraine common wealth and Fowler hath fantafied that the same also may apperteine to England which in Flaunders was de claimed against Fraunce Let vs see what Peter Frarine bringeth which may concerne the comon cause of religion where in they of France against whome he hath shot his bolt doe agree with vs in England First he saith as moste wicked persons they haue disturbed religion and peace A grieuous accusation But where is the proofe The question of religion he leaueth to be handled of others the deciding whereof neuerthelesse would purge the persons accused for the most part of the other crime of disturbance of peace Well the respōdent is not to be blamed that standeth vpon that question which according to the custome of the schoole was propounded to be the argument of his talke at that time And therefore he wil open declare first that there was no cause or iust occasion why these men should rise and make insurrection Then that they tooke weapon in hand without authoritie contrarie to law and in dispite of all Magistrates and Rulers Last and finallie that they vsed themselues to cruellie handled their sworde to bloodelie to the greatest dammage hindrance and losse that euer was felt in Christendome These are the diuisions of the circle with in which the orator hath inclosed himselfe But al these points so farre as they concerne the troubles in France are fullie and directlie confuted by all the edictes of pacification giuen forth to the knowledge of the world by Charles the ninth and Henrie the third Kings of Fraunce in which they haue alwaies acknowledged that the Protestants vpon iust cause with sufficient authoritie and in their seruice and to their honour haue put them selues in armes and done whatsoeuer the necessitie of warre lawfullie taken in hande hath inforced them to doe Then iudge whether against the publike testimonie of two Kings whome the matter moste concerned and that more then once or twise repeted I need to stand in the cōfutation of Peter Frarines petty priuate declamation Notwithstanding although I haue with one hatchet hewen a sunder the wholle stoke of this rayling oration yet I will not spare to brattell out the bowes and branches thereof in answering to euerie particular quarrell and cauil of the same There was not anie good or reasonable cause saith he why the founders and brokers of this new Gospell should be driuen to put them-selues in armes against the Catholikes See how the vaine declaimer which refused before to handle the question of religion now taketh vpon him most arrogantlie to decide the same For if the Protestantes be founders and brokers of a new Gospell and the Papistes be good Catholikes there is no cause why they should once open their mouthes against the Papistes much lesse arme them-selues as he said they did against the Catholikes But if this matter pertaine to the question of religion the debating whereof is not presentlie intended let vs pardon him these preiudiciall tearmes as well now as hereafter and consider onelie what reasons he bringeth to prooue his purpose No lawes ought to be chaunged with out great cause least of all the lawes of religion So farre we both agree but there is great cause to change lawes ofreligion when Antichristes decrees haue displaced the lawes of God the onelie rule of true religion Yet saith he