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A14450 A learned and excellent treatise containing all the principall grounds of Christian religion Set downe by way of conference in a most plaine and familiar manner. Written first in French by maister Mathew Virell, after translated into Latine: and now turned into English for the vse of our country-men.; Religion chrestienne declarée par dialogue. English Virel, Matthieu.; Egerton, Stephen, 1555?-1621? 1594 (1594) STC 24768; ESTC S119631 209,162 292

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Christ which is the foundation of our saluation Christ himself saith No mā knoweth Mat. 11. 17 the Sonne but the Father neither doth any man know the Father but the Sonne and he to whom the Sonne will reueale him Iohn 6. 44. No man can come to me except the Father that sent me draw him But concerning the wil and that power whereby we do obey God Paul saith It is God which worketh in vs to will and to performe Phil. 2. 13. it Which also is confirmed of Christ himselfe by a most fit similitude in these wordes As the branch Iohn 15. 4. can beare no fruit of it selfe except it abide in the vine euen so neither can you except you abide in me He that abideth in me in whom I abide the same bringeth much good fruit for without me you can do nothing Which things being so what can man of himself beleeue in the matter of Religion but errour and lyes what is he able to do when the question is of worshipping God but all manner vice and wikednesse I will ad a place out of Paule wherein all this doctrine in one word is plainly set down You were dead in sinnes and Ephes 2. 1. trespasses He saith not you were sicke so as some little life was left in you but you were altogether dead The self same thing also he confirmeth afterward when he saith Ephes 2. 6. that we are raised vp from the dead when God doth regenerate vs. If therfore the vnregenerate man be spiritually dead in sinnes it followeth that he hath no more vnderstanding in things pertaining to eternall saluation then hath a dead man in the things of this life Moreouer if a man vnregenerate be spiritually dead in sinnes he hath no more power to do a good deede then a dead man hath to do the actions of the body Therefore euen as our soule giueth life to the body so also the spirite of God is the life of our soule being otherwise dead and vnable to beleeue or do any thing that is good Theoph. Although I do wholly giue consent to this doctrine which I see hath expresse grounds in the holy Scriptures yet I will propound vnto thee a certain obiection sometimes put forth to my selfe about the answering whereof I found no small difficultie namely that God seemeth to mock vs which so often by the Prophets exhorteth vs to turne vnto him and to keepe his commandements if it were not in our power at least in some part to do this Furthermore that exhortations be made in vaine the vse of admonitions is but needlesse and that reproofes are but ridiculous if it were not in the power of the sinner not to sinne Matth. They that measure the strength of man by Gods commandements be altogether deceiued For Christ commandeth vs Thou shalt loue the Lord thy Mat. 22. 37 God with all thy heart with all thy soule and with all thy minde And againe Be you perfect as your father which is in heauen is perfect But what is he which confesseth not that he can neuer come to that diuine perfection nor loue him with that loue that is due In Enchiri ad Lauren. de gratia lib arbit Therefore as it is notably written by Austen God commandeth the things which we cannot do that we might know what we ought to aske of him Which indeede may appeare euen by this that euery where by the Prophets the Lord commandeth vs to turne vnto him and to repent vs of our sinnes But Ieremie answereth Ier. 31. 18. Eze. 18. 30. Ioel. 2. 12. correct me Lord and I shal be corrected when thou diddest correct me I did repent For this cause the same Austen Confess l. 10 which handled this doctrine of Free will most excellently writeth in another place O Lord giue me that which thou commandest and command what thou wilt Theoph. Indeede this is a solution or answer to that obiection not to be despised Mat. I do ad that it may be gathered out of Paule that exhortations to holinesse of life haue not their foundation vpon our naturall powers but vpon the promise of God wherein he promiseth to be with vs not to helpe our Free will in part but wholly and altogether himselfe alone to make it good in vs. Theoph. Bring some places out of Paule for the confirmation of this doctrine Mat. Writing to the Thessalonians 1. Thess 5. 23. 24. when he hath admonished them to liue blamelesly iustly and soberly in loue in patience he prayeth to God to sanctifie them to the end they might be able to performe those things at length saith Faithfull is he that hath called you which will also do it In another place also after he had exhorted the Philippians to worke out their owne saluation with feare and trembling presently he addeth Phil. 2. 12. 13. For it is God which worketh in you both the will and the deede euen of his good pleasure Theoph. What vse is there of exhortations admonitions and reprehensions to the vnbeleeuers Mat. They shall be a witnesse against them when they come to the iudgement seate of God For they shall the more be conuinced of rebelling against God and of the hardening of their owne hearts Theoph. I am now well furnished against those that shall hereafter set vpon me with that obiection To cōclude it seemeth to me that this doctrine may fitly be referred to that which sometimes I haue heard of thee namely that all the sinnes of men be of themselues not of God but that their good works if they do any be not of themselues but of God Mat. True Neither is there any cause why we should feare to receiue this for true doctrine forasmuch as it tendeth both to the glory of God and to the throwing downe of our selues which is a most certaine marke whereby we may discerne or know true doctrine from false according to the rule of Christ Iohn 7. 18. Theoph. Now we are to go forward to the rest We haue at large hādled the first effect of the holy Ghost let vs therefore come to the other How makest thou the holy Ghost the author of our vnion or being made one with Christ which in the beginning of this Chapter thou didst attribute vnto faith Matth. In what sēse the holy Ghost is sayd to be author of our vnion with Christ When I did attribute or giue it to faith I did it according to the vse of the scripture but this I meant that faith is the instrument and as it were a spirituall hand by the which we do receiue Christ with all his gifts In the meane time this is to be vnderstood that the holy Ghost is author of them all For that vniting of vs to Christ which is in heauē is not done but by his own diuine power Adde hereunto that the holy Ghost begetteth faith in vs and sanctifieth vs that so we may
excellent vse of afflictions Now declare the fift Mat. The fift vse of afflictions the triall of our faith By them the Lord bringeth our faith to light that we may be confirmed in it For Peter sayth 1. Pet. 1. 7. that it is tried no otherwise then gold is tried in a fornace of fire which similitude is most fit For as the fire either consumeth base things as it doth wood or straw or else hardneth as it doth the clay but precious things such as be gold and siluer it melteth and cleanseth so there be diuerse effects of afflictions according to the varietie of the persons to whom they be sent For they do either consume the wicked through impatiēce or else they harden them through despaire 1 On the contraie side they soften the hearts of the godly to call vpon God 2 They cleanse their hearts for as much as by afflictions our concupiscence is mortified 3 Finally they trie our faith For while the Lord doth temper the bitternesse of them with his loue and gentlenesse he causeth vs to take them patiently and to fashion our selues to his most holy will by the which meanes our faith is manifested Hereupon Iames calleth afflictions by the name of temptatiō Iam. 1 12. Blessed is the man which endureth temptation For when hee hath bene tried he shall receiue the crowne of life Whereunto also that is to be referred which is spokē of Paul Rom. 5. 3. that affliction bringeth forth patience patience experience experience hope For this the Apostle meaneth that God by the comfort which he giueth vs in afflictions by experi●nce proueth vnto vs the truth of his promises by the which we are for the time to come confirmed in the hope of eternall life Theoph. Indeed the former foure verses of afflictiōs are most excellent and this fift is nothing inferiour Hasten therefore vnto the last Mat. The sixt vse of affliction the renouncing of the world and desire of eternall life By afflictions God wil call our minds away frō these earthly things that we may earnestly desire the life to come For the Israelites if they had not bin ill intreated both in Egypt and in the wildernesse would neuer haue throughly thought vpon going to the land of Canaan which was a figure of the heauenly inheritance Therfore God doth as a carefull nurse who whē she would weane the child layeth some bitter thing vpon the teat to cause the child to hate and abhorre it Thou hast now how many wayes afflictions bee necessarie for vs. Thou seest therefore that wee are not without cause warned by the Apostle to beare thē patiently as sent from God our father when he saith Heb. 12. 5. 6. 7. 8. My sonne despise not the chastening of the Lord neither faint when thou art corrected of him For whom the Lord loueth he chastiseth and scourgeth euerie sonne whom he receiueth If you endure chastening God offereth himself vnto you as vnto sonns For what sonne is there whom the father chasteneth not But if you be without chastening whereof all be partakers verily you are bastards and not sonnes Moreouer we had the fathers of our bodies chastisers of vs and we did them reuerence should we not much more be in subiection to the father of spirits that we might liue For they indeed for a few dayes corrected vs after their own pleasure but he chastiseth vs for our profit that we might be partakers of his holinesse Theoph. There is no cause then why the faithfull in this world should looke for all prosperitie Mat. True vnlesse they wil deceiue them selues for otherwise it were necessarie that 1 The deuill should be without enuie 2 The world without malice 3 And we our selues without sinne But the Deuill will alwayes burne in enuie against the faithfull The world with malice and mad hatred and our sinnes will minister sufficient matter vnto God who in the meane time hath care of our saluation to giue the raines vnto those our enemies to molest and trouble vs. Wherefore according to the saying of the Apostle 2. Tim. 3. 12 let all such as desire to liue godly in Christ Iesus make their accompts that they shall suffer persecutions Of prosperitie Adde hereunto that prosperitie is not alwayes profitable for vs nay oftentimes it hurteth vs. Theoph. Why so Mat. Because often it hindereth our saluation for it bringeth foorth fruits altogether contrarie to those which we reckened vp euen now 2 For it maketh vs proud and insolent and keepeth vs from the acknowledging of our sinnes 3 It stirreth vs vp to serue our owne wicked lusts and it is vnto them as a baite wherwith they are more and more set on fire 4 It maketh vs negligent in prayer and as it were putteth out in vs the desire to pray 5 It prouoketh vs to impatience and wrath and maketh vs voyd of the affection of mercie 6 Finally it maketh vs drunken with the loue of our selues and of the world draweth vs away from the meditation of the heauenly life Act. 14. 22. Therefore not without cause the Scripture testifieth that wee must through many afflictions enter into the kingdome of God Now these in the holy writings are not seldome called strikings to the end we might know them to be as it were certaine spirituall medecines which be diuersly administred by God him selfe the best spirituall Phisition to sundrie purposes according to the quality of our sicknesses and necessitie Notwithstanding he dealeth alwayes so gently with vs that he suffereth vs not to be tempted aboue that wee are able to beare For while he chastiseth vs with the one hand he doth lift vs vp with the other and causeth that the issue of the affliction is alwayes happie And so he declareth his goodnesse to vs in aduersitie as well as in prosperitie For often hee tempereth them both together or sendeth them by course least wee should bee too much puffed vp with prosperitie or throwne downe with aduersitie Hereupon the Prophet saith Psal 30. 5. weeping may abide in the euening but ioy commeth in the morning And that more is he vseth this course of things that we may the more acknowledge what the sweetnesse of prosperitie is so be more earnestly bent to yeeld him thanks For as it is in the prouerbe Sweet things deserued hath not be VVhich before did bitter neuer see Theoph. Hitherto thou hast declared certaine verie excellent points concerning afflictions which if they be earnestly fixed in our minds they wil bring no small comfort nor a litle stirre vs vp to patience Now these vnlesse I be deceiued are 1 First that afflictions come not to vs but by the will of God 2 That they be sent vnto vs frō God to our good 3 That God will assist vs to the patient bearing of them 4 That God promiseth vs a blessed issue yea at length a full deliuerance 5 Finally that by meanes of them prosperitie
Theoph. Let vs come to those two last things which the Lord requireth of vs to the fulfilling of this commandement Declare the first Mat. That we should go to him with whom we be at variance to be reconciled according to the commandement of Christ If thou bring thy gift vnto the altar Mat. 5. 23. and there remembrest that thy brother hath ought against thee leaue thy gift there before the altar go thy wayes first be reconciled to thy brother and then come and offer thy gift Now he teacheth by that ceremonie of the Law which was then in vse that all the worship which we offer vnto God is displeasing vnto him so long as we be at vaniance with our neighbours Moreouer Paule warneth that this reconciliation is soone to be made and not to be put off from daie to day For he saith Ephes 4. 26 Let not the Sunne go downe vppon your wrath Which indeede is the most fit remendy to breake off hatred and to bridle reuenge For euen as diseases and sores at the first easie to be cured by delaie are made incurable and that more is deadly so hatred will grow past cure if thou represse it not speedily For this cause Paul after these words let not the Sun go down vpon your wrath by and by addeth neither giue place to the Diuell Theoph. Wherefore doth he adde these wordes Math. Because hatred if it bee neuer so little a time hidden in our mindes maketh an entrance for the Deuill who hauing entred vppon our hearts doeth so wholly possesse them that refusing reconciliation hee stirreth vs vp to the desire of reuenge till at length hee haue throwen vs headlong to destruction Seeing therefore hee is so hurtfull a guest there is cause that betimes we shut the doores against him by vnfained reconciliation Theoph. The other point is remaining of the thing which wee are bound to doe for the fulfilling of this commandement Mat. It is that after we haue diligently done our duety if our aduersarie doe obstinately refuse reconciliation we leaue not to loue him to pray vnto God for him and in all things to pleasure him according to the commaundement of Christ Loue your enemies Mat. 5. 44. blesse those that curse you do good vnto them that hate you and pray for them that hurt you and persecute you that you may be the children of your father that is in Heauen Hither also may be referred the exhortation of Paul Rom. 12. 20 21. If thine enemy hunger giue him meate if he thirst giue him drinke For if thou doe this thou shalt heape coales of fire vpon his head Finally that also is to be marked that Paul presently addeth Be not ouercome of that which is euill but ouercome euill with goodnesse The seuenth commandement Thou shalt not commit adulterie Theoph. Let vs come to the seuenth commandement of the Law How manie parts be there of it Mat. Two In the first hee forbiddeth adulterie in the last he commandeth chastity Theoph. What doth the Lord vnderstād by the name of adulterie Mat. The exposition of the first part Not onely the companie of man with woman out of mariage but also all kinde of filthinesse by the which man may be defiled Moreouer all the affections of concupiscence and finally whatsoeuer stirreth vp vnto lust and nourisheth it Of which sort are Vnlawfull touchings Wanton apparelling of the body Filthie speach Vncleane songs Filthy reading Too familiar companie with those of whom it is verie like that they be tempted with lust Wanton lookes Idlenesse that is the mother of all vices and namely of whooredome Dancings which are most manifest stirrers and prouokers of lust Seeing therefore it is certaine according to the saying Eccle. 3. 27. He that loueth danger shall perish in it that wee are by nature prone vnto lust except wee diligently take heede of all these prouocations it will verily come to passe that at length we shall be driuen to the verie act it selfe which sin notwithstanding is before God esteemed most hainous especially in those that professe the name of Christ Theoph. Why so Matth. Paule giueth a reason in these wordes 1. Cor. 6. 15. Do you not knowe that your bodies are the members of Christ Shall I therefore take the members of Christ and make them the members of an harlot God forbid Know you not that hee which is coupled with an harlot is one body with the harlot For he saieth they which were two shall be one flesh But he which is ioyned to the Lord is one Spirite Flie fornication euery sinne that a man doth is without the bodie but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body But if the iniury be great that is done vnto Christ verily that must not bee thought little that is done to our neighbour For there followeth vppon this the staine of honest families Moreouer maidens otherwise to haue beene well bestowed are thus not seldom brought to an haynous offence to their dishonour and punishment But the iniury shall be greatest if adultery be committed that is if either the man or the woman or both of them be married For so the faith of mariage is shamed and the band broken the whole family is ouerthrowen and sometimes bastards be suborned for lawfull children vnto whom the inheritance commeth For this cause the Lord ordained in the Law Leu. 20. 10. Deu. 22. 22. that the adulterer should die the death Theoph. The exposition of the second part Let vs come to the other part of this commandement Is there any other thing to be obserued in it besides the chastitie which we ought to keepe Mat. There is Namely that God commandeth mariage to all those that are not euen inwardly endued with the gift of continency For as Paul saith 1. Cor. 7. 9. It is better to marrie then to burne Theoph. Seeing thou hast made mention of marriage I will haue thee shew the causes why it was ordayned Math. They be three 1 First procreation of children 2 Mutuall helpe one to another 3 The auoiding of fornication Theoph. Which is the chiefest of these causes Mat. The first in respect of God namely the increase of mankinde but in respect of vs the last namely the auoiding of fornication Theoph. Why saiest thou that this is the chiefe in respect of vs Mat. Because it layeth vpon vs a necessity of marying which the other two do not For this cause Paul saieth For the auoiding of fornication let euery man haue his own wife and let euery woman haue her own husband Howbeit he speaketh to those that haue not the gift of continency whom he expresly commandeth in those wordes to marrie Notwithstanding heed must be taken that wee defile not so holy an ordinance by dissolute wantonnesse Of the which thing we be warned by the Apostle when he saith Mariage is honourable amongst all and the bed vndefiled Theoph. What noteth he in this testimony
workemanship created in Christ Iesus vnto good workes which God hath prepared that we should walk in thē And againe in another place The grace of God that Tit. 2. 12. bringeth saluation vnto all men hath appeared teaching vs that denying vngodlinesse and worldly lusts we should liue soberly and iustly and godly in this present world Thou seest how diligently good works be commended in the Scripture as those that bee acceptable vnto God through Christ by whose holinesse all their filthinesse and vncleannesse is couered Theoph. But what vse is there of them Mat. A three fold vse of good workes The vse is three-folde and those indeed most profitable The first which is also the chiefe respecteth the glorie of God that ought to be dearer vnto vs thē our owne saluation But by them it is especially aduanced as it appeareth by the wordes of Christ Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good Mat. 5. 16. works and glorifie your father which is in heauen For this cause Paul warning the Philippians to be ful of the fruits of righteousnesse which are by Christ Iesus addeth Phil. 1. 11. to the glorie and praise of God The second vse respecteth our neighbour For by the vprightnesse and integritie of our life he is prouoked to the same earnest desire and exercise of godlinesse I passe ouer the good turnes which hee hath by our charitie and good workes The third vse standeth in this that by them our conscience is quieted For they be testimonies and witnesses of our faith therfore of our saluation Theoph. But how can it be that good works shall be witnesses of our faith Mat. The cause hath already bene shewed of vs before namely for that the holy Ghost doth neuer work faith in our hearts without repentance from whence good works do flow which therefore be visible or seen testimonies of our inuisible or vnseene faith euen as the goodnesse of the tree is iudged by the good fruite and the inward health or soundnesse of a mans bodie by the outward disposition of all the parts Theoph. Therefore vnlesse I be deceiued this thou saiest that faith cannot be without good works Matth. I say so Euen as fire cannot be without heat and the Sunne without light And verily faith of it own Faith cānot bee without good works nature bringeth forth good workes For how can it be that our hearts should be reformed by faith so as wee do embrace the loue wherewith God loueth vs in Christ but that they be also stricken with loue toward him again by meanes whereof they both earnestly desire to obey him and doe labour to auoide rebellion against his maiesty I doe adde moreouer that faith can no more stand together with an euill conscience then water with fire For it cannot bee that so long as sinne raigneth in vs and we willingly offend God that wee should be assured of his loue so as wee may put our whole trust in him and repose our hope in his fauour and goodnesse notwithstanding that infinite merite of Christes death be knowen and perceiued of vs. Theoph. As farre as I see faith bringeth foorth good workes by the which it is afterward preserued in our hearts M. Faith the mother of good works of wich it is after preserued Yea verily euen as fire causeth ashes wherewith it is afterward cherished fed and maintained But by these things it is plaine that it is so farre off that faith which notwithstanding some say should destroy good works that rather by it they are built vp and fortified Theoph. Seeing then faith cannot bee without good works it followeth that all they which boast of it do not good workes be liers and deceiue themselues Matth. It followeth and that is the disputation of Iames the Apostle against the Libertines whome hee speaketh vnto in these wordes Shew mee thy faith Iam. 2. 18. without thy workes and I will shew thee my faith by my workes whereby hee sheweth that no man can be certaine of his faith which is inuisible but he hath visible testimonies of it namely good workes Whereuppon it is that the same Apostle in the end of that Chapter concludeth thus As the body without the vers 26. spirite is dead euen so that faith that is without good workes is dead that is it is not true but a shadow and a vaine empty likenesse of it Theoph. Therefore we are neither iustified nor saued without good workes although neither of them nor by them Mat. I graunt it For although the kingdome of heauen be not the wages of seruants but the inheritance of children yet no man is reckned among the children of God that is not lead by the spirite of God as Paul speaketh Rom. 8. 14. and therefore doth the workes of the spirit such as be these Loue ioy peace long suffering gentlenesse Gal. 5. 22. 23. goodnesse faith meekenesse temperance and such like Therefore the same Apostle in another place giueth warning Be not deceiued neither 1. Cor. 6. 9. fornicators nor Idolaters nor adulterers nor wantons nor theeues nor couetous nor drunkards nor railers nor extortioners shall inherite the kingdome of God The same thing also doth Christ himself confirme when hee saieth not euerie one that saieth to Mat. 7. 21. me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdome of heauen but he that doth my fathers wil that is in heauen Mat. 5. 20. And againe in another place I saie vnto you except your righteousnesse exceede the righteousnesse of the Scribes and Pharisies you shal not enter into the kingdome of heauen Theoph. Now do I consent vnto thee do acknowledge that good workes be not vnprofitable although we be neither iustified nor saued by them Yea rather that they bee of speciall vse and therefore that the faithfull with al their hearts should giue themselues to them for as much as they serue 1 To the glorie of God 2 The edification of our neighbour 3 And to the confirmatiō of our faith saluatiō Mat. Adde hereunto that God to whom they be acceptable through Christ rewardeth them with sundry blessings both spirituall temporall according to the promises almost without nūber contained in his word Moreouer hither is to be referred the word of Reward which is vsed in many places in the Scripture as when Iohn exhorteth the faithfull to perseuerance he saith 2. Ioh. 8. Looke vnto your selues that we loose not the thinges we haue wrought but that you may haue a ful reward Christ also speaking of those which suffer persecution for righteousnesse sake saith Mat. 5. 12. Great is your reward in heauen In another place also Mat. 10. 42. Whosoeuer shall giue a cup of cold water only to one of these litle ones in the name of a disciple shall not lose his reward Theoph. The confutation of merite Seeing therefore God promiseth reward to our workes it seemeth they
Cōmuniō of the body of Christ Which words do indeed signifie no other thing but that wee should vnderstand the bread and wine to bee most certaine signes of our Communion and felowship with Christs body and bloud And that doth altogether agree with my exposition Moreouer that is the meaning of these words This is my body which is of these This is my bloud But Luke expoundeth them thus This cup is Luc. 22. 20. that new Testament by my bloud which is shed for you The same exposition also did Paul follow repeating the wordes of the institution And this maner of speach can not admit any other sense without iniurie and violence done to the wordes but that we say that the wine offered in the up is a most sure pledge of the new couenant which God hath made with vs by the precious bloud of Christ The same therefore is to be said of the bread namely that it is a most sure pledge of the vnion which we haue with the body of Christ Theoph. Concerning the first part thou hast satisfied me it followeth that we come to the other Mat. In it I said that the exposition which I brought had no absurditie For there is no let but that we may trulie eate the body of Christ and drinke his bloud to our saluation Yea the foure absurdities which I spake of euen now be auoided For the signes retaine their owne nature The bloud of Christ is not separated from his body The truth of his humanitie ascention and sitting at the right hand of the Father remaineth safe Finally the vnbeleeuers are not partakers of his body and bloud Theoph. Why Christ vsed those wordes and no other in the institutiō of the Supper If that were the meaning of Christ why did he not expresse it in plainer words and lesse doubtfull Mat. He could not expresse that promise in fewer more significant wordes for if he had said This is a pledge or signe of my body there had beene no promise It had therefore beene necessary for him to haue vsed long circumstances of words after this manner I do assure that this bread and this wine doe represent vnto you my body and bloud that as often as you receiue these visible signes you shal be truly and indeede partakers of the things whereof they be signes And this kinde of speach had not beene of such force and weight as that is which he vsed This is my bloud for it compasseth all those things vnder it but with a greater maiestie And for this cause the holy Ghost vsed a like The confirmation of the former interpretation kind of speach in the Sacraments of the old Testamēt in that it giueth the name of the thing signified to the signs themselues to teach vs that such as receiue worthelie be truly partakers of the thing signified Theoph. Declare that vnto me particularly in some Sacraments of the old Church Matth. Gen. 17. 9 10. 11. First God meaning to assure Abraham and his posteritie that Circumcisiō was vnto them a most certaine signe that they were reckened in his couenāt calleth it his couenant The same also saith Moses of Exo. 12. 11. the Sacrament of the passouer For hee calleth it the Lordes passeouer to giue vs to vnderstand that it was a most certaine token of the good will of God which the Israelites had experience of when the Angell destroied the first borne of the Egiptians and passed ouer their houses without touching them whereof the passeouer was a Sacrament The. Indeed these kinds of speaking do come somewhat neare to the words of Christ vsed in the institution of the holy Supper But I aske of thee if there bee any altogether like vnto them and that haue the same meaning with that which thou hast alledged Mat. There be For the Apostle speaking of the Sacraments which the father 's vsed in the wildernesse saith 1. Cor. 10. 4. that the rocke that is the water which Moyses had not without miracle brought out of stone was Christ To teach that it was vnto them a most effectuall Sacrament of the Communiō and fellowship which they had with Christ For the same Apostle affirmeth that the fathers did eate the same spirituall meat with vs and dranke the same spirituall drinke Loe therefore a manner of speach altogether like to that which Christ vsed in the institution of the Supper and which hath the same interpretatiō with that which I brought a little before Yea and that more is there is vse of this kinde of speach not onely in the Scripture but also in our common talke for if a king will forgiue an offender the punishment of his faultes deliuering vnto him his letters patents confirmed by his hand writing and seale he will say behold thy pardon And yet he meaneth not that the letters patents bee his pardon but onely a certaine testimonie of his pardon And this similitude very excellently agreeth with the sacramēts that be as it were seales of the word as the Apostle testifieth speaking of circumcision for hee calleth it the seale of the righteousnesse of faith Theoph. I doe now see that thy interpretation doeth expresse the true meaning of Christs words I do also graunt that by those words Christ assureth vs that we are as verily partakers of his body and bloud as we do receiue the bread and wine But how can that be vnderstandest thou that his body is shut vp or inclosed in the bread and his bloud in the wine Matt. Against the error of consubstantiation No not so for the words themselues cannot any way beare it for Christ must haue said my body is with this bread and my bloud is with this wine Secondly wee should make a carnall eating which should lead vs to the three latter absurdities reckened vp of vs when we spake of transubstantiation namely that the bloud of Christ should bee seuered from his bodie that his body should be insinite and finally that the wicked comming to the supper should communicate with the body and bloud of Christ and therefore should obtaine euerlasting life Moreouer Christ himselfe doth teach the contrarie for vnto his disciples iudging the speach which he had of eating his body to he hard he answereth thus It is the spirit that giueth life the flesh profiteth nothing The words that I speak vnto you are spirit and life By which words he declareth most euidently that hee speaketh not of any carnall but of spirituall eating Theoph. Thou hast affirmed before that Christ in that place did not speake of the eating which is in the supper but of that which is spiritually by faith Matth. Of the eating of Christs body and drinking his bloud Euer as the Scripture doth set before vs one Christ so it sheweth one way how to eate his flesh and drinke his bloud that is whereby wee may bee made one with him to be partakers of all his benefites and this is spiritually