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A04693 An apolgye made by George Ioye to satisfye (if it maye be) w. Tindale to pourge & defende himself ageinst many sclaunderouse lyes fayned vpon [hi]m in Tindals vncharitable a[n]d vnsober pystle so well worthye to be prefixed for the reader to induce him into the vnderstanding of hys new Testame[n]t diligently corrected & printed in the yeare of oure lorde. M.CCCCC. and xxxiiii. in Nouember. Joye, George, d. 1553. 1535 (1535) STC 14820; ESTC S120468 39,729 106

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of the lyuing not of the dead God is the god of Abrahā Isaac Iacob ergo Abrahā Isaac ād Iacob are a lyue christe cōcludeth planely nothing els but that there is a lyfe aftir this whereyn the soulis departed lyue whiche cōclusiō sith it is directly made ageynst the Saduces opinion it must nedis folow that thei denyed in this place that thinge whiche christe proued for christe was not so vncircūspecte to proue one thing they denying another orels they myght haue well obiected saying Syr what is this answere to our questiō we aske the whose wyfe shall she be at the general resurreccion of their bodyes and thou answerest vs nothyng els nor prouest vs any thing els with this scripture but that there is a lyf after this wheryn the soulis departed nowe lyue so to be both spirits angels for that thei be lyke aūgels If the Saduces here had denyed cheifely principally by that worde Resurrectio the generall resurrecciō criste wolde haue proued it thē by scriptures as well as he here proued them the lyfe of spirits separated frō their bodyes christe rēdering the cause of his argumēt to cōfirme the same to declare the powr of god in so p̄seruing the dead a lyue saith Omnes em̄ illi viuūt all mē lyue in him or by hym luc 20. Also it is to be noted diligētly how that saynt Marke for the inducyng of that autorite of Moses setteth before the thing that yt proueth in these wordis saying mar 12 Ceterū de mortuis ꝙ resuscitant nō legistis in libro Mosi c. that is to saye But as touching the dead that thei ar resuscited or they ar all redy alyue he saith not that they shal be alyue or shall ryse agayne as T. in hys diligēt last correcciō turneth the presentēce into the future ād the verbe passiue into a neuter to stablissh his errour thus corrupting the text And lyke wyse he plaith with the verbe in Luke in Marke he englissheth the verbe of the pretertence resurrexerint for the future So fayne wolde he wrest the wordꝭ frō their natyue sence to serue for hys errour haue ye not red in exodo what Moses saith c so that he induceth the autorite to ꝓue that they ar a lyue nothing lesse then to proue the resurreccion of the flesshe I woūder wherfore T. flitteth frō the text in these places Here maye euery mā se that thꝭ worde Resurrectio in this place as in dyuerse other places of scripture is takē for the lyfe aftir this wheryn the soules now lyue tyl the resurrecciō of their bodies as testifyeth Ioā Resurrectio hath two significations apo 20 And Tin not knowyng this significaciō or not willing to se it is gretely to blame to write so belye sclaūder me sayng That for because I thus geuing the worde in his place his very signification I do denye the resurreccion of the slesshe which I neuer doubted of but beleue it as cōstātly as he I haue p̄ached taught it so interp̄ted it where it so signifyeth cōfesse it openly as euery man maye se that read my workis as Tindals own cōsciēce testifyeth the same For thoughe this place proueth not directly the resurrecciō of the bodies yet are there many places moo that proue it clerely as doth all the .xv. chapter of the first Pystle to the Corin. where I englisshe it Resurreccion in the article of our Credo but in Iohn ād in the .xj. cap. to the Hebrwes where the worde signifyeth the lyfe of the spirits departed there I englissh it as the very worde signifyeth to put the reder out of doubt to make it clere lest he be seduced erre with Tind beleuyng that the soulis slepe out of heuē when sleape in scripture is properly ād onely vnderstandē of the bodye which shal be awaked and ryse ageyne A rekeninge is gyuē of my trāslatiō For I did trāslate thys worde Resurrectio in to the lyfe aftir thys in certayne placis for these two causes principally For two causes is this worde Resurrectio so trāslated First because the latyn worde besidꝭ that it signifieth in other places the Resurreccion of the bodye yet in these it signifieth the lyfe of the spirits or soulꝭ departed as christis answere vnto the Saduceis ād Iohn declare mat 22 apo 10 Secōdaryly because that agenst the Anabaptistis false opiniō agenst their errour whom Erasmus reproueth in hys exposiciō of the Credo which saye the resurrecciō of the soules to be this that is to weet when thei shal be called out of their preuey lurking places in whiche they had ben hyd frō the tyme of their departyng vnto the resurreccion of their bodies because I saye that agenste these erroneouse opinions these places thus truely trāslated make so myche ād so planely that at thys worde Resurrectio the lyfe of the spiritꝭ aftir this their false opinion falleth is vtterly condempned The confutacion of Tindals opinion Here it is 〈◊〉 to the grunde of our cause Surgo to ryse Maneo to abyde or endure And if Tin wolde loke beter vpon his booke folow not so miche his owne witte he shulde fynde that the hebrew worde which comonly is trāslated into this vbe Surgo the same some tyme saynt Ierome translated into Maneo as in Isaye Verbū dn̄i manet in eternū The worde of the Lorde endureth for euer some tyme into theise vbis sto or cōsto as Isaye xlvj And some tyme into theis vbis Pono cōstituo excito facio stare in vita vel seruo in vita as in exo cap. ix of Pharao Et ꝓfecto ideo posui te vl excitauite seruaui te in vita vel feci te stare superstitē te volui esse plagis meis vt ostendā in te fortitudinē meā c. that is to saye Doutlesse or verely for this cause yet haue I set and cōstitute the or stered the vp p̄serued the alyue to receyue my plages to declare my strength vpō the ād to shewe that my name myght be knowne thorowte all the worlde of the which verbe there cometh Surrectio so Resurrectio whose rote original sith it hath these so many dyuerse significaciōs it must nedis folow that the nowne diriuyed oute therof haue as many so to signifye that permanēt verye lyfe or the preseruing of them styll a lyue which significaciō agreeth in all these placis of these thre euāgelistis for thei all tel one the same storye Resurrectio hath mo significations then one If T. will englisshe thys verbe Resurgo euery where to ryse agayne in bodye so shal he trāslate it falsely corruppe the text bringe the reder into no small errour as once did one preacher in a sermō expownyng this verse of the first psalm Ideo nō resurgēt impij in iudicio c. englysshing yt thus
the faithful were in heuē there shulde be no resurrecciō of their bodies whiche incōuenience to avoide he laith them down to slepe out of heuē as do the Anabaptists tyl domes daye but here I meruell that Tin is so sclēderly lerned in the forme of arguyng that he se not howe his antecedēce may be true cōsequēce false ¶ Thana baptistys opiniō off the soulis departed seyng that the cōtrary of his cōsequēce is necessary that is to weit there shal be the resurrecciō of the flesshe 1. corinthio 15 Paule thus prouing it If Christ be preached to haue rysen how happeneth that some of you saie thee is no resurrecciō Tyndals argumēt is proued false As who shuld thꝰ argew Christe our head is rysen wherfore yt must nedes folowe that his bodye which is his chirche shall ryse ageyn For wherfore shuld the beyng in heuen of the soulis of Peter Paule of all saintꝭ let the resurrecciō of their bodies more then the being in heuen of Christis soule those iij. dayes did let his resurrecciō Tin wil saye They be al redy in ioye ād therfore there nedeth no resurrecciō And I saye so was christis spirit yet he rose agayn And I denye T. argumēt For were they in neuer so greate ioye yet must their bodies ryse agayn or els he wil make christe a lyer his doctryne false Mat. 5 Heuen erthe shal soner passe away then one iote of god dis worde shal passe vnfulfilled The verite hath sayd it ād wrytē it cōcluding that our bodies shal ryse agein wherfore ther cā no cōdicionall an̄cedēce of T. nor yet of any angel in heuē make this ꝯclusiō false But let vs examē the text se the Saduceis opinion vnto the whyche Christe answereth so directly and so confuteth yt vtterly The Saduceis as wryteth that aunciaūt historiograph Iosephus beinge himself a iew in his .xviij. boke the .ij. ca. sayd that the soule of mā was mortal and dyed with the bodie The Saduceis opinion acto 23 ād Paule cōfirming the same to be their opinion addeth that thei said ther were nether spirits nor angels ¶ Paule declareth the saduceis opinion so that to saye there is nether spirit spirit properly is the soule departed nor aungel is as miche to saye as the soule is mortall no lyfe to be aftir this and the Saduceis in denying the lyfe aftir this denied by the same denye but onely those two that is bothe spirit and angell for if they had denyed by that worde Resurrectio the generall Resurrection to in that place so had thei denied thre distīcte thingis but Paule addyng Pharisei autē vtraque cōfitentur but the pharises graunt them bothe two declareth manifestly that thei denyed but onely two thingis that is to saye bothe spirit angell for aftir this present life tyl domes daye there is no lyfe of eny creature but of these two creatures spirits aungels And if by this worde Resurrectio Paule had vnderstōdē as T. doth the resurrection of the flesshe he wolde not haue sayd the pharyses graūt them bothe but all thre For this worde vtraque as euery latyne mā knoweth is spokē but of two thingis only but as for this my mynde I leaue it vnto the iugemēt of the lerned And nowe shall I proue yt by christis owne answer that the Saduceis in those places of Math. Mark Luke denied that there is any lyfe aftir this mat 22 mar 12 luc 20. ād so nether to be spirit nor angel whiche is as miche to saye as towching the soule it to be mortall For yf it shuld lyue aftir the departing thei thought to haue had takē christe in this trappe with their questiō of those .vij. brethrē that they now being all a lyue aftir their dethe shuld haue al seuē togither that one wyfe at once for thei sayd that al these .vij. had hir here But christe answerde them directly accordyng to their opinion ād not aftir Tin opinion of this worde resurrectio telling them that thei erred being ignorāt of the scriptures ād also of the power of god whiche powr christe declareth to consist in the p̄seruing the dead a lyue for because out of god the father ād christe the sone being that vere lyfe all lyfe floweth ye that into the dead id 5.12 1. ioā 5 whiche power to cōfirme into the confutaciō of their opinion their own cōfusion he alleged these scriptures exodi .iij. But first he tolde them of the present state of the soulis departed saynge that in the tother lyfe aftir this they nether marye nor ar maried but thei ar as the aungels of god in heuē Tindal In his expositiō of S. Ihon Pystle And yet saith Tindal this doctryne was not then in the worlde what is done with the soulis departed the scripture make no menciō but it is a secrete saith he layd vp in gods tresury Ioye It is verely a depe secrete to him that is ignorāt so many playne scriptures whiche I shall here aftir brynge in prouyng their state in heuen Here is also to be noted that christe in describing their present state saith in the present tence Thei mary not nor ar maryed but ar lyke aūgels ye egall vnto aūgels the sonnes of god saith Luke cap. xx But yet yf Tindal wyll saye that the present tence is here takē for the future playe boo pepe withe the tencis as he englissheth resuscitātur shal ryse agen not are reuiued or resuscited yet must I aske hym whether that the childrē of that lyfe worthy that worlde as Luke calleth them be not now more lyke aungels then they shal be aftir the resurreccion of their bodies mar 12 luc 20. me thinketh that in thys poynt that they nether marye nor are maryed aūgels ād the spirits be now bothe a lyke ād the chyldrē of the lyfe or the worlde where now the blessed lyue with Christe are now more lyke aūgels then they shal be aftir the resurrectiō of their bodyes for now they ar substances incorporal immortal intellectuall and so be aūgels but then they shal be bodely substances hauyng very flesshe and bones which the aungels neuer had nor neuer shall haue The text is declared But nowe let vs heare the scryptures wherwith christe cōfuteth their opinion ꝓueth the same thynge that the saduceis denyed The text is her expended Crist cōsidering what thing thei denied sayd vnto them De resurrectione vero mortuorū nō legistis qd vobis dictū est a deo qui ait Ego sum deꝰ Abrahā c That is to saye As cōcernyng the lyfe of them that be dead haue ye not red what is tolde you of god saying I am the God of Abrahā the god of Isaac and the god of Iacob God is not the God of the deade but of the lyuinge By this argumēt god is the god
resurrecciō for so myght his antecedēce be true his ꝯseq̄nce false for admitted that as T. allegeth hī there were no resurreccion yet foloweth it not that the electe nowe departed beinge as now at laste he is cōpelled to graunt in no worse case thē christꝭ spirit was frō his deth tyl he rose agen be most miserable of al mē for they that be yet a lyue they that be dead not receyued īto Abrahās bosom but in hel in tormētis be miche more miserable But what saith T. to his own argumēt for Paul made it not verely euē thꝰ Nay Paule thou art vnlerned Go to m. More lerne a new waye Tindal We be not most miserable thoughe we ryse not agene for oure soulis go to heuen as sone as we be dead Ioye This saith Tin yroniously in a mok as though it were false that oure soulis as sone as we be dead shulde go to heuen Tindal And ar there in as grete ioye as Christ that is rysen agayne In heuen dare I saye that thei be Ioye ye that in ioye if they dye in the lorde but whether in as grete ioye as christ hīselfe let More T. dispute it Tindal And I meruel saith T. that Paule had not counforted the Thessaloniās wyth that dotryne if he had wist it that the soulis of their dead had bene in ioye as he dyd wyth the resurreccion that their dead shuld ryse agen Neuer meruel at it Tindale for Paule thought this present cōsolacion sufficiēt and could haue coūforted them then with many mo as with this of Christ. Ioye Ioā v. that who so here my worde beleue in hym that hath sent me hath lyfe euerlastinge shall not come into cōdēpnaciō but is passed ouer frō dethe to lyfe whiche cōsolaciō because in that place ād at that tyme Paule spake it not is it a good argumēt that ther was non siche ye must beware syr how ye argew a negatiuis for siche kynde of argumēts be the worste feblest that ye cā make It is a naughty argumē Paule dyd not ꝯfort thē with that doctrine but with another as good ergo that doctrine was false or was not in the world ye may not iuge Paule as ignoraunt as you be in it because he did not then there expresse it for in other places he declareth techeth that doctrine plenteously ynoughe Crij lief the secōde syde Now reade Tinda wordis in hys answere to M. Moris fourth boke ād loke whether he graūteth not playnly that the soulis sleap tyll domes daye ād whether he calleth not the doctryne that they shulde lyue euer heythen ād flesshly doctryne of the Philosophers ioyned wyth the popis doctrine And agayn in the .cxviij. leif where vnto he remitted the reader in his table withe thys sentence Soulis sleap belying Christe and hys Apostles saynge that they taughte nonother And yet bothe there Crviii leif in his answers and in his exposition vpon Iohns Pystle apon this text And now lytle chyldrē abyde in him that when he shall apeare c. He sayth yt is a depe secrete layd vp in gods tresury And yet a lytle before vpō thys text Tindals wordes fyght agenst thēselfe And he is the satisfaccion He bryngeth in Paule tellynge a longe tale in hys sleap yf Tin doctryne be trew ād maketh Paule at laste to cōfesse that he himself with other sayntis be in heuē contrary to hys own saynge read the .xvj. lyne the fyrste syde of the .xij. leif of the expocicyon of that text And he is the satisfacciō And ther shalt thou se how Tindals wordis fight agenst them selfe Finally yf yt be so depe a secrete no scripture to make mencion of their state I wounder what made Tindale so bolde to saye and to wryte yt to that thei sleap that thei be not in heuen now at last to thinke thei be in no worse case then was cristis spirit aftir his dethe vntil his resurrecciō Aftir I had sene theise places and known Tindals erroneouse opinion I resoned wyth hym as we walked togither in the feeld more then once or twyse bryngyng ageynst him siche textis as m● thought proued playnely agenst hym as when christe answerde the theif hangyng by his crosse saying Luc. 23 This daye thou shalt be with me in paradyse where I sayd It is manifest that if christe had that daye cōmended hys spirit into hys fathers hādis in heuē as he dyd in deed ꝓmysed that the spirit of the theif shuld be with his spirit for their bodies were not togither it must nedys folow that hys spirit was with cristꝭ spirit in heuē And to expresse the place more playnly christe added saying In paradyse which is not els then in heuen paradyse is taken for heuē 2 cor 12. whych one autorite albe it it had bene sufficiēt for any mane that wolde haue admytted receyued the sengle ād playn veryte of cristꝭ worde yet I brought forthe christes wordis agayn describing the state of the faithful vnfaithful aftir this lyfe saying Math. viij I tell you verely that many shal come frō the east west ād shal sit down to eat with Abraham Isaac and Iacob in the kyngdō of heuē that is to saye shal be associated vnto Abrahā ād Isaac to be parte takers of their ioye and fruicyon in heuen but the chyldren of the kyngdō of the deuyl shal be cast forth into extreme derknesses where shal be wepinge gnasshing of tethe This sitting downe at table with Abrahā is not els but Abrahās bosome into which all that resembled Abrahā in faith aftir their departinge were receyued as ye maye se of Lazarus Abrahās bosom Luke .xvj. where the state of the electe of the reprobated immediatly after their deth is described thelecte to be borne of aungels into Abrahams bosome as was Lazarus the reprobated to be caste into hell into tormētis wyth the ryche glotō Then alleged I Paule saying 2. Cor. 5 Erthy ●abernacle oure corruptible bodye Heuenly tabernacle is that ioye gloriouse presence of God For we knowe that yf oure erthye tabernacle where in we dwell were destroyed yet haue we a perpetual māsion not made with handis in heuē of these mansiōs all redy prepared of christe yt is wrytē Ioā xiiij And at last Paule affirmeth that to be absent from the bodye is to be present with god saying we haue cōfydence aproue thys to be beter that is to weit to be absent frō the bodye and to be present wyth god which saying is spoken of the state of soulis now beyng with god absent frome theyr bodyes yet a sleape in the erthe tyll thei be awaked raised vp at the general iugemēt Sleap is onely apꝓpriated to the bodyes Vnto this pertayneth his sayingis also vnto the Philippians affirming that dethe is to himself more
aduaūtage then here to lyue Phi. 1. therfore he desired to be losed from his bodye that he might be with criste his life this state to be miche beter then the lyfe of this worlde Then I alleged Iohn in the Apocalipse describīg the states bothe of the dampned also of the blessed that dye in the lorde hēce forthe apo 14 which sith they be blessed frō their dethe forth it must nedis folow that thei be in blysse in heuē apo 20 And Iohn repetyng the same state describyng it almost withe the same wordꝭ saith those soulis were alyue raigned with crist M. yere c. calleth that lyfe of the soulis primā resurrectionem the first resurrecciō The first resurrecciō is the lyf of the soulis hym blessed holy which hath his parte in the fyrste resurrecciō here is it playn that this worde Resurrectio is not euery where taken a lyke as T. saith and Iohn describeth the state of the secōde resurrecciō immediatly in the same cap. calleth the state of the dāpned the secōde dethe by whiche correlatiuis calling it the first resurrecciō in respecte of the secōde those antithesis ād puttyng one cōtrary agenst a nother euery reader maye gather whiche is the first lyf the firste dethe whiche is the secōde dethe secōde resurrecciō But these playn testimonyes of the scripture wolde take no place with Tindal for he wrested writeth them cōtrary to his own doctryne out of their proper pure sence with fayned gloses to shift and seke holes he aftir his wont disdaynful maner agenst me fylipt them forth betwene hys fynger his thombe what disdaynfull ād obprobrious wordis he gaue me for so resoning agenst hym I wyll not now reherce lest I shuld minysshe the good opiniō that some men haue in him Also ther is a playne descripciō of the state where vnto the soulis departed in crist he ar receyued Hebr. xij ye ar not come vnto the hill Sinai which none might touche but ye are come vnto the moūte zion the cite of the lyuing god the heuēly Ierusalem vnto the innumerable cōpany of aūgels vnto the cōgregaciō of our former first begotē fathers writen togither in heuē to god the iuge of al men vnto the spiritꝭ of the pure iuste ād vnto Iesus criste the mediatour of the newe couenant euē vnto the bespreigned bloude Here is yt playne that in this heuenly Ierusalem ar now the cōgregacion of our former fathers the spirites of the iuste men for aftir the generall resurreccion this cōgregacion shal be no spiritis but the cōpany of very mē hauyng flesshe ād bone whiche the spiritis haue not crist sayng to his disciples fele and touche me for a spyrit hath nether flesshe nor bones But at laste I remēber that I made hym thys reason saynge Syr ye knowe that christe is our head we his members altogither hys bodye ye knowe also that christe is the firste frutis fore leader of them 1. cor 15 that sleap Then I argewed thus The bodye must nedis folow the head whother the head wēt thither must the bodye folow for crist optayned of his father that wheresoeuer he shuld be there shulde his faithful be with him to se his glorie but christis spirit departed slept not oute of heuē but wente into the fathers hādis in heuē wherfore euen so shall ours aftir our dethe if we dye his mēbres ād in the lorde ioā 14 and. 17 This reason did so byght Tindal and stoke so faste vpon hym that he coude not shake it of but is now at laste thāked be god cōstrayned to saye with me in hys goodly godly pistle agēst me that I thynke he dare not yet cōstātly affyrme it the soulis departed in the faith of crist to be in no worse case then the soule of criste was frō the tyme he delyuered his spirit into the hādis of his father vntyll the resurreccion of hys bodye Tindal Ioye Here maye euery reader se that thoughe he thinketh now other wyse then he hathe wrytē in so many placis now thynketh the very same that I euer affirmed obiected agenste him yet had he leuer ageinst his owne conscience thus enuyously withe so many spightfull lyes ād sclaūders vnto my perpetuall infamy hauyng no respecte vnto the sclaunders and hurte mynistred vnto the congregaciō of Christe nor yet to the gaudye ād reioyse of our aduersaries to haue wryten agenst me then to refrayned his pēne ād aknowleged hys errour So prowd ād arrogāt are they that stonde so hyghly in their own cōsayght ād falfe opinion pertinatly to defende it though thei se it right false rather then thei wolde seme conuicted especially of any simple and one that apereth not so wel lerned as thei be them selues The Apologie answere vnto Tindals pistle But let vs now here Tindals vncharitable pistle set before hys newe Testament thus tytled Tindal Vylliam Tindal yet once more to the Christen Reader Ioye Tindale shulde haue goten hym more honesty and lesse shame yf he had writen once lesse to the reader Tindal Thou shalt vnderstonde most dere reader when I had taken in hande to loke ouer the newe testament agayn and to compare it with the greke and to mende what so euer I coude fynde amysse and had almost fynesshed the laboure It was but loked ouer in deed nothinge performing his so large promyses added in the later ende of his first translaciō to the reader and I woūder how he coude compare yt with greke sith himselfe is not so exquysitely sene thereyn Ioye George Ioye secretly toke in hand to correct it also by what occasyon his cōscyence knoweth Tindal preuēted me in so moch that his correcciō was printed in greate noumbre yer myne beganne When it was spyed and worde brought me though it semed to dyuers other that George Ioye had not vsed the offyce off an honest man seynge he knewe that I was in correctynge it myselfe nether dyd walke aftir the rules of the loue and softenes which Christe and hys disciples teache vs howe that we shulde do nothynge of stryfe to moue debate or of vayne glorie or of couetousnes Yet I toke the thinge in worth as I have done dyuers other in tymes past as one that haue more experience off the nature and disposicion off that mannes complexyon and supposed that a lytle spyse off couetousnes and vayne glorye two blynde goydes had bene the onlye cause that moued him so to do aboute which thinges I striue with no mā so folowed aftir corrected forth caused this to be printed without surmyse or lokynge on hys correctyon Ioye Lo good Reder here mayst thou se of what nature cōplexion T. is so sodenly fyercely boldely to choppe in to any mānis cōscience so to vsurpe preuent the