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A34987 A backslider reproved and his folly made manifest and his confusions and contradictions discovered in a short reply to a book lately published by Robert Cobbet called A word to the upright, who being turned from the light now makes it his work to war against it and them that walk in it; but his weapons are broken and in his own snare is he taken / written for the Truths sake by a servant thereof known by the name Stephen Crisp ; unto which is added a brief answer to a pamphelet [sic] stiled A brief discovery of the labourers in mystery Babylon. Crisp, Stephen, 1628-1692.; Atkinson, Elizabeth. Breif and plain discovery of the labourers in mistery, Babilon, generally called by the name of Quakers.; Travers, Anne. Harlots vail rent and her impudency rebuked.; Coleman, Elisabeth. Harlots vail rent and her impudency rebuked. 1669 (1669) Wing C6925; ESTC R29284 17,630 26

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in thy Conscience which he further affirms in the 21 page thus The Word that was God by which all things was made in him was Life and that Life was the Light of men and he it is that lighteth every man that cometh into the world I say if thou dost come to be settled thus in these erring dayes as he calls them and dost come to have an esteem of the Light according as R.C. hath written my Counsel is unto thee that if R. C. or any else shall deny this Doctrine again and write or speak against it that thou believe them not but keep single to this truth and thou shalt find the good effects of it beyond what he hath or can declare yet thus far R. C. hath against his will witnessed to the truth Now mark what follows as to this Doctrine that R. C. may sufficiently appear to confute himself He saith in the 22 page The Light in the Conscience cannot lead the followers of its dictates further than its own centre which is the centre of nature and its power felt but the power of the centre of nature and that man's internal Light hath no more power to give Salvation than the Soul hath to save its self as in the same page and that the sinking down into it for a manifestation of the Salvation that came by grace in Christ is a Doctrine that turns away the Creature from Christ the Redeemer to a property of nature wherein can be no saving health as in page 10. And again in the same page he saith The Light in the Conscience being a property in man as man is a creature its office in the Soul is not appointed to give Salvation And in the 21 page he saith Christ the Word that maketh all things is not the Light and although he be goodness it self and sends forth his love to wit his life which shed in the heart is a Light which he calls his Spirit which Light is not Christ though of his nature And in the 5 page saith That the spirit of man is of the principle of light and is a spark of that nature which having lost its life by the transgression of the man to God is dead c. Now by this time where is the settlements for the young sprouts of the Nation who must if they will believe R. C. believe that the Light in Conscience is to lead to Christ and yet can lead no further than the centre of Nature and that it is Salvation and hath power to minister wo and peace to justifie or condemn and now must believe it can do neither it being but a property of Nature and dead to God and must believe that the Light of men is the Life and Christ and now must believe that though this Light is his Life and is his Spirit and of his Nature yet it is not He. Oh horrible blindness and sottishness Is this the way to settle People for such double-minded and double-tongued Hypocrites to take in hand to doctrinate them thus backward and forward to believe and deny the same thing and all in one hours time But one thing more I have to note which R. C. goes about to settle us in in these erring times about what we should and ought to believe of Christ and what he is that is the Saviour in which mark First he affirms in the 3d page That Christ is everlasting as he is the Word and in the 16 page saith The Seed is Christ to whom the Covenant was made by God as written My Covenant shall be with thee and with thy seed and he is Lord and Saviour And in pag. 17. he quotes the saying of Christ They have believed that I came down from thee So here thou mayst see who R.C. acknowledgeth to be the Saviour even the Seed of Promise with which God's Covenant stands for ever which Seed came down from God c. So this is good sound Doctrine according to Scripture but that thou mayst be unsettled again from this R. C. saith again in the 18 page That the Saviour is in Nature and Creaturality like him and that the Seed that broke the Serpents head is not something that this R.C. is not as he is nature and creature but is the off spring of Adam consisting as he doth and saith in his 12 page the body was Christ and in his 6 page Behold I shew you a Mystery you men in the clouds Christ being the product of the Holy Ghost to a coagulated substance from the properties of Man in Mary And in the 18 page saith Being out of doubt that the Soul of Christ was of and from the properties of nature and creature made by generation of the properties of Mary is that Seed God promised to break the Serpents head and in the 19 page Is it not the Body of Christ by which we are reconciled unto God yes verily So now let all People see if this man be like to settle any and to keep the young sprouts from being deceived who is thus confused himself one while telling it is the Seed that is the Saviour and the everlasting Word of God and he which came down from God c. and then presently saying it is a thing produced a thing formed of the properties of man a body that reconciles a coagulated substance a thing in nature like him himself consisting as he doth both in kind and substance and much such-like as may be seen more at large in his Book Well if R. C. had known Christ Jesus and the Power of his Death and Resurrection he had not written so confusedly for then he had known the virtue of the Seed and the service of Body and Soul too and had known the offering to be made by the eternal Spirit and then he would not have said that it was the body only that reconciled or that the body only was Christ seeing that the Body without the Spirit is dead and that could not give life but the Son of God that took the body hath life in himself and can give life to them that believe and was and is and is to come and he is in the Faithful and they are in him and in his body bone of it and flesh of it and the life which they live is by faith in him and not by talk of him But these things R.C. is a stranger to and so imagines about him and intrudes into things which he hath not seen and is vainly puft up in a fleshly mind and fleshly knowledge which is for judgment for this jumble and confusion is the only way to bring into Atheism indeed if there were no better Asserters of the Doctrine of Christianity then he is But let all sober People wait to feel a measure of that life and fulness that dwelt in that Body of Jesus for which it was prepared that so they may by the power of that Life be settled in the knowledge of the Saviour Jesus and may
that the light is a sparkling glimpse in the soul doth convince the soul of what is done amiss which discerned by the soul serves for a Director to the soul to Christ where only lies its help which Spirit or Light in man is the Candle of the Lord which searcheth the innermost parts of the belly and comes down with every man by generation from Adam Pag. 10. The Light in Conscience being a property in man as man is a creature its office in the soul is not appointed to give Salvation   P. 21. Christ as he is the Word and Maker of all things is not the Light in Conscience   P. 21. The Word being goodness its self sends forth his Love to wit his Life which shed in the heart is to it a light and this he calls his Spirit which light is not Christ though of his nature P. 11. The light serves but to condemn for unbelief or to justifie the creature in his obedience of faith P. 5. The spirit of man being of the principle of light is a creatural spirit from the principle of light as a spark of that nature which having lost its life by the transgression of the man to God is dead P. 21. But the Word which was God by which all things were made in him was Life and that Life was the Light of men and he it is that lighteth every man that cometh into the world P. 11. If the light in Conscience be Christ then may Christ be darkness P. 4. Did not this Light in thy Conscience condemn thee of all that ever thou didst before the day of God brake forth   Concerning Christ his Body Soul and Blood and what he is and is not as R. C. saith Page 3. HE is the everlasting Word but as he was the Man Christ he was in time Page 5. AND the Soul of Christ that was of and from the soul-like properties of man's nature as Christ consists personally from his Mother Mary P. 6. Which body of our Lord being of a heavenly substance as it was circumscribed was the body of his personality that he gave for an Offering for the ransome of the World which body being of the nature of heaven Thus have I given you an account of Jesus his Body Soul and Spirit who as he thus consisted was that form of God and express image of his Fathers substance P. 6. Behold I shew you a Mystery ye men in the clouds Christ being the Product of the Holy Ghost to a coagulated substance from the property of man in Mary   P. 8. Who while there stood differed nothing from the form of a Servant   P. 12. Which Body was Christ. P. 7. We have proved before the personality of Christ and that he was the express Image of God in his Person P. 17. He came of Abraham's lineage of the loins of Mary begotten by the Holy Ghost of his Mother Mary for the Saviour P. 16. The Seed is Christ to whom the Covenant was made by God as written My Covenant shall be with thee and with thy seed c. He is Lord and Saviour P. 18. That the Seed which is the Saviour is Christ in Person for if he had not been Creature of Soul and Spirit as I am as I am Nature it had not availed me but the Seed that broke the Serpents head is not some strange thing that I am not as I am creature but of kind and substance as I am he being made so from the nature of Mary by which she became creature as the Off-spring of Adam of Soul and Spirit consisting as do I. P. 17. They have believed that I came down from thee P. 18. Being out of doubt that the Soul of Christ was of and from the properties of nature and creature made by generation of the properties of Mary is that Seed that God promised to send to break the Serpents head P. 19. This Christ being born of Mary proceeded from David and Abraham according to the Line of the Covenant Christ coming from Mary and God forming himself in and with that Body Christ for its Saviour to Man was the Power to Christ by which Christ brought forth man's Salvation but could he or did he without the Body of Christ reconcile P. 19. Is it not the Body of Christ by which we are reconciled unto God yes verily P. 11. My Brethren you are bought with a Price not of blood of Bulls and Goats nor Heifers of a year old but by the Blood of God P. 13. Which Blood being the Blood of his Humanity as he was Creature was that that did with God expiate for sin THE END THE HARLOTS VAIL Rent AND Her Impudency rebuked In a short ANSWER to one Elizabeth Atkinson her Babylons Brat against the People called Quakers Friend Eliz. Atkinson WE have taken some notice of thy abusive slanderous Pamphlet against the Quakers whom thou hast confessed to have walked nine years amongst And is this the fruit of thy nine years Travel A pack of Lies Feignedness and Deceit which discovers more Impudency than Modesty or Sobriety on thy part as also apparent Nonsence and Contradictions to thy self as will briefly appear in what follows though blasphemously and impudently thou fatherest thy Work upon the constraint of the Love of God But thou hast been led by a lying spirit to blaspheme against the Truth nine years professed by thee and yet thou art fain to make use of many words and phrases thou hast learned amongst the Quakers though to a wicked end and to thy own confusion Thou now pretendest to declare against our Principles and Practice but what thou sayest as to our Principles reacheth very few of them but the Light within chiefly thou in thy darkness smitest against though to the discovery of thine own folly and contradiction as will appear And as to practice thou sayest Those that for a time practised Honesty in their Callings are now turned Deceivers and those that formerly were content with their own Wives are now turned Adulterers lusting after other mens c. We answer Both these Accusations are general and do reflect upon all of us that have practised Honesty who are now accused with Dishonesty and Adultery wherein thou hast appeared both impudent and wicked thus to bring forth a general charge to asperse a whole Body whose Principle is against all such Abominations and against all unrighteousness and herein our Principle is justified as that which led to practise Honesty and to live in Chastity and Faithfulness to our own Relations and now however any have apostatized from or abused this Principle of Truth and Righteousness amongst us their falling is not chargeable upon the Principle for the Truth stands intire still and the offenders must bear their own burthens Our righteous Principle is not to be accused either because Eliz. Atkinson or R. Cobbet or others have turned their backs of it after so many years being amongst us If any should revile the
daily wait for his Appearance to save for he ever liveth and is ever needed and none are safe but under the government of his Spirit Now as to what substance he was of R. C. saith in his 6th page His substance was from the properties of man in Mary but in the same page he saith again That the body of our Lord was of an heavenly substance And in his other Book saith He is the Son from the substance of the Father and was he saith of the nature of heaven So then the properties of Man in Mary was heavenly substance of the nature of heaven or else R. C. is here unsettled and in error and darkness himself nay that which is more R. C. himself must be of this heavenly substance this nature of heaven for he saith Christ consisted as he doth But lest ye should believe what he saith about the heavenly Nature he saith his soul was made by generation of the properties of Mary R. C. wilt thou not blush at these things when thou reviews them And then for the form of this substance he saith page 8. That while he there stood differed nothing from the form of a servant but in the 6 page he saith That as he was thus circumscribed and thus consisted of Soul Body and Spirit he was that form of God How now R.C. What is the form of a servant and the form of God all one And is the form of God a circumscribed form Hast not thou learned this of Lodow. Muggleton that false witness and notorious blasphemer that saith God is but the bigness and compass of a man whose steps thou art treading and whose end will be thy end except thou repent And then again concerning the Blood that saves and does away sin hear what R. C. in his 11 page saith My Brethren you are bought with a Price not of blood of Bulls and Goats nor Heifers of a year old but by the Blood of God But in his 13 page he is of another opinion and saith quite contrary these are his words viz. Which blood being the blood of his humanity as he was creature was that which did with God expiate for sin So now which of these two Doctrines shall we believe that we are saved by the blood of God or blood of the Humanity or shall we suppose them to be both one and so God to be humane and so the Doctrines indifferent R. C. will do well to clear up these things or own his condemnation upon his folly and presumption for its unlike he should ever be reconcil'd to the People of God who is so at odds in himself in this manner Alas Robert Dost thou not yet see whither thou art gone by going from the Light and now staggers and reels and dost not know whither thou goest Oh! that a day may be yet found for thee and thine and that thou mayst come to bow down to that which thou now kick'st and spurn'st against And in page 21 thou sayst If the Light in Conscience be Christ then so many men as are in the world so many Christs Why so Robert Hast not thou thy self answered this in confessing that one Christ hath with his Life served to lighten every man that cometh into the world and what need is there then for every man to have a distinct Christ seeing he is the Christ of God thou sayst that lightens them all And thou sayest in this same page That Christ as he is the Word and Maker of all things is not the Light in Conscience but in the next line or two thou sayst But the Word that was God c. in him was Life and the Life is the Light of men and he lightens every man How dost thou mean by this Dost thou not mean that he lightens them in their Consciences Or where else And as to the Soul of Man thou sayst in thy 4 page That it is a spark of God's eternal Nature coagulated into a Spiritual substance for a centre of his insensitive life and as thus compacted is a creature of an eternal being of an own self-subsisting consistency Answ R.C. hath here described a creature that subsists of its self contrary to the Scripture that saith all things are upheld by the Word and besides this eternal creature as he calls it this spark of God's eternal Nature this coagulated substance he saith was to be a centre for God's insensitive life What Robert Had it not a centre before But if this coagulated substance subsists of it self then not by the life that centers in it and if the Soul be a spark of God's nature how comes it to be created And if it be his nature how comes it to be corrupted in the life time as thou sayest it is and how can a spark of God's eternal nature let into its self the poyson of the Serpent and so die Where is its own self-subsistency now Is this thy explaining the matter Or where is its being a centre for that insensitive Life of God And further in thy 5th page thou sayst This spark this coagulated substance this own self-subsistency dieth and in another place speakest of its perishing and yet talks of an eternal creature But R. C. what life of time is that which corrupts the soul and how came it to have its abode in an infectious life of time seeing its an eternal creature as thou sayst But what man's Soul or the Soul of Jesus either is thou knowest not for if thou hadst thou wouldst not have thus befool'd thy self to say man's Soul was a spark of God's eternal nature and yet say the Soul of Christ was but of the properties of nature made by generation nor yet have affirmed that to be the Seed of Promise which came by generation of and from the properties of Mary Is not that the Seed of Promise mentioned in Isa 9.6 who is called The Mighty God the Everlasting Father the Prince of Peace And what is Mary the Mother of God This will please the Papists well and is this the way to settle Christians and preserve the young sprouts of the Nation from corruption And where is thy Scripture to prove that Jesus the Saviour was created as in thy 6 page thou sayst But Oh! this darkness and confusion that thou mayst see it and be ashamed of it Again Robert Cobbet in his 26 page saith in plain words That Christ and his Spirit are not one and his Argument is That Christ said I go away but I will send you a Comforter Which Argument is sufficient to prove that Christ the Messias and Saviour is one with the Spirit of Truth and not distinct If one should ask R. C. how many were mentioned in that text where he saith He that now is with you shall be in you would he answer that there was more than one He if not then here is no more to wit Christ and his Spirit which eternally are one But that he may sufficiently manifest his folly
he tells us in the same 26 page That the Father the Word and the Spirit are all One both in respect of consent in their Testimonies and also in respect of their eternity of being so which of these shall we believe that Christ and his Spirit are One or that they are not One R. C. will do well to tell People which he will stand by And for Cobbet's pleading or hoping That the Powers will keep up a Charity to us upon the account that thousands of us do he hopes believe his narrative of God and his desire altering the matter for a corporal form into a nature for production of creatures speaking forth the modal by his word c. page 26. Truly we need not R. C. to set forth an account of our Faith and Belief in these things neither can we own it or him for if we should we should soon be brought under the judgment both of God and Man And for his pleading That in the soundest Bodies there sometimes breaketh forth a Boyl Truly if he aims at us by this Body as I think he doth we do confess that so far as ever he was of us so far he is that Boyle which we confess is now broken forth but they that know him in particular know how little he was of us and how little while he profest himself to be of us so his breaking-out and running like a boyle or sore the corrupt matter that was in him is no great disparagement to the Body for the body is sounder without him than with him and whilst he was amongst us he was often breaking out with his whimseys and imaginations so that he became naucious unto us but not in so gross a manner as now And for R. C. saying That some of us knew that he counted our language but a cant language We know that from the first of his coming among us he was far enough from our language or life either but it is no great matter for him to call our Language a Cant who replyes to our words thus viz. when we said The Lord is one and his Name one he answers Friends do not caper as in his 2d page And he saith in his 31 page That he is no Quaker of which all that ever saw or heard any thing of the Quakers Books or Doctrines will bear him witness for never did Quaker appear in such a heap of confusion as R. C. hath done and yet that malicious saying of his in this 31 page That to be a Quaker is to deny his Lord and Master God will judge him for if by Lord and Master he means the Lord Jesus Christ as I think he doth But he that really and truly is his Lord viz. the Prince of the air that rules in the hearts of such disobedient Children and Apostates as he is He I confess he must deny more than ever yet he hath done before he can become a Quaker or have unity with them who are scornfully so called But why doth R. C. in his 30 page come with a kiss Judas-like and say Brethren I will ask you a question c. when as the matter he intends there to insinuate to his Reader is That we deny that Christ that was born of the Virgin Mary to be Christ Is not this on purpose to betray us and beguile his Reader and that with a Lye for we never yet denied him that was born of the Virgin Mary and suffered under Pontius Pilato to be the Lord and Saviour But indeed we never did believe him to be produced by coagulation as R.C. doth nor by generation of and from the properties of Man in Mary for then some might have declared his generation which the Scripture saith Who can do And besides we believe him to be the Eternal Son of God But if Cobbet's Doctrine be true then he was not before Mary but his ignorance of Christ is sufficiently manifested to all that have an eye opened And as to his saying That the Apostle saith 1 Cor. 15.1 2 3. That the Sufferings of Christ is the Power of God and Gospel by which we are saved That 's false and a belying the Apostle and Scripture too for all that reads the text may see that the Apostle speaks of his Sufferings but as one part of many of that Gospel which he had preached but it was the Resurrection of Christ he most of all pointed at as the principal thing they must come to feel the power of as in vers 12. Many more of Cobbet's Absurdities and Contradictions I might note down as also those noted in the Answer to his first Book which yet remains unanswered nor so much as an attempt made thereof he it may be dispairs of ever reconciling them in the sight of rational men But these at present may satisfie the ingenious Reader what spirit it is in Robert Cobbet that hath taken in hand to settle People in these erring dayes and to preserve the young sprouts of the Nation from corruption And so let Robert Cobbet mind if he writes again to keep more within the bounds of moderation and not to let his envy against the Light so captivate his reason as to bereave him of the use of it as it hath done for truly is that Scripture fulfilled in him He that walketh in darkness slumbleth and knoweth not whither he goeth Concerning the Light that lighteth every one that cometh into the world what it is and what it is not as Robert Cobbet saith Page 1. WHich Doctrine of the Light in Conscience had it been kept in its office as a School-master to bring unto Christ had been a Doctrine of good Morallity Page 22. BE not deceived the Light in Conscience cannot lead the followers of its dictates further then its own centre which is the centre of nature and its power felt but the power of the centre of nature Pag. 3. I deny not but the ends of the coming of the Lord into the world was to beget his Children into fellowship by communion with his Father and Himself by giving to them his Life which is man's Light which my Brethren being our Salvation c. P. 22. So hence I conclude that the spirit of man being his internal light hath no more power to give Salvation to the soul than the soul hath to save its self P. 10. But a light of reason man hath as man is a rational creature from which his light hath knowledge of good and bad as also knowledge from his light to eschew evil and to do good in the doing either of which stands his woe or peace P. 10. Therefore the light in man being but the light of man as man is a rational creature sinking into it for the manifestation of the Salvation that comes from Grace by Covenant from God by Jesus Christ is a Doctrine that turns away the creature from Christ the Redeemer to a property of Nature wherein can be no saving health Pag. 22. But in