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spirit_n body_n nature_n soul_n 16,493 5 5.5392 4 true
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A73348 [The principal points which are at this daye in controuersie, concerning the holly supper and of the masse.] Viret, Pierre, 1511-1571.; Shoute, J. 1579 (1579) STC 24782; ESTC S125565 86,955 173

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bodie cannot be the soule because it cannot be a spirite or els if it be conuerted into spirit it is no more a bodie as also the spirite is no more the spirite if it be conuerted into bodie The like is of the bodie and of the soule of Iesus Christe and of his diuine and humaine nature of the which euery one of them holdeth so continually his proprieties that the one cannot be that which the other is For albeit that they be vnited together by personall vnion yet for all that they remaine alway distinct in their vnitie according to their proprieties and not confused in sort that the one cannot be the other wherefore we may not say at all that the diuinitie is the humanitie or that the humanitie is the diuinitie nor that the one is conuerted into the other For if there were such a conuersion they should no more be that which they are but should be chaunged into other natures which thing cannot be For God can neuer be but God Wherefore he can not be conuerted into man but he may well vnite man to him selfe as he hath done in the person of his sonne Iesus Christ In likewise man can not be conuerted into God forsomuch as he is a creature that God which is the creator of all cannot be created but is without beginning as he is without end and infinite the which thing can not agree with any creature From whence it foloweth that the Goddes which are created and that haue had any beginning are no Goddes at all but are onely creatures or else illusions And as the substaunce of God cannot be conuerted into that of man nor that of man into that of God for otherwise God should not be God nor man should not be man at all Euen so neyther the one nor the other may be without his conuenient and naturall proprieties For if the humaine nature haue the proprieties belonging to the diuine nature it is no more humaine nature but diuine In like sort if the body and the bloud of Iesus Christ haue the natural proprieties which doe belong to the bread and to the wine as they haue indeed if they haue their qualities accidents these same effects they are not at all the body and the bloud of him but bread and wine remayning alwaies in their substance with their accidents Chapter v. That the doctrine of transsubstanciatiō doth ouerthrow a great parte of the Articles of the faith and Christian religion concerning the worke of the redemptiō wrought by Iesus Christ THen euen as the transsubstanciators doe abolish from the supper the true signes of the same by their transsubstanciation euen so doe they take away the thinges signified by them to wit the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in asmuch as they transfigure them into an other nature spoyling them of their bodyly proprieties in such sort that they are no more a very body nor a very bloud forsomuch as they haue not their naturall proprieties but haue those of the bread and of the wine which should represent them and should not be the thing it selfe the which they should signifie And by the same ineane they ouerthrowe all the Articles of our faith touching the incarnation of Iesus Christ and his conception and natiuitie his death resurrection and ascension into heauen for if he haue such a body as they attribute vnto him in their masse and supper it is not a true humayne body in asmuch as it hath no thing at all of that which is required in a true humayne body but onely that which is proper and naturall to the bread if it be so that the bread be conuerted into the same From whence it foloweth nyther that it is not the same very body which was conceyued and borne of the virgine Mary and which died rose againe and went vp into heauen or else if it be the same very body it was neuer a true body neyther in the conception and natiuitie nor in the death resurrection and ascension or else it was afterwarde chaunged eyther into an imaginatiue body or into a spirite or into God in sort that it is become infinite as God and that it is euery where in his proper essence and substance as God or at the least that it is in many places at one instaunt and that it hath no one qualitie nor quantitie agreeable to a humayne bodie The which things can in no wise agree with the nature of a true body And that which I do say of the doctrine of the transsubstanciators may be also said of that of the consubstanciators who albeit they doe condenme transsubstanciation as we do yet for al that they doe constitute a corporall presence of the body and of the bloud of Iesus Christ with the bread and with the wine in the supper which is not greatly different from that of the transsubstanciators and draweth after it as many absurdities concerning the proprieties of the humaine nature of Iesus Christ Chapter vi That the doctrine aswell of the transsubstanciators as also of the consubstanciators hath no certayne foundation vpon the wordes of Iesus Christ and for what causes and of the chiefe different which is betweene them and vs touching the presence of Iesus Christ in the Supper IT may not then bee that the transsubstantiatours nor also the cōsubstantiacors may bragge and glorye as they do that they haue the expressed worde of Iesus Christe who sayd This is my body and that their faith of transsubstantiation or consubstantiation is grounded vpon the expressed and certaine worde of god For seeing that their faith doth ouerthrowe the true faith of the principall articles of the Christian doctrine and religion which are very plaine throughly certaine it followeth then in deede that it can not be a true faith as touching that point and by consequent it cannot bee builded vpon the word of god For they may not bragge to haue it in their fauour if they do not take it in his true sense without the which it is no more the worde of God but it is disguised and ouerthrowen Now it appeareth euidently that it is taken in an other then his owne true sense when it is taken in such a sense as ouerthroweth the principal articles of the Christian faith which are not grounded vpon any passage of the holy scriptures that is not well vnderstoode but vpon so many testimonies of the Prophetes and of the Apostles and so plaine and euident that there may remaine no ambiguitie or doubt to those which do beleeue the diuine letters The which thing can not bee saide of the doctrine of transsubstantiation nor of consubstantiation which haue no other ground but vpon a wrong and euill vnderstanding exposition of the wordes of Iesus Christe the which doth plainely and manifestly appeare to bee contrary to the true sense of the same for so much as it is impossible to agree it
nature For albeit that a man may not see and perceyue the substances but by their accidents it foloweth not for all that that all accidents do agree with euery substance but are attributed vnto them according to their nature and distinguished as thei are or otherwise al nature should be confounded in a marueilous cōfusion of substances and accidents And further wee haue to note that among accidents there be some that are so proper and natural to their substance whereof they be accidents that they may not be separated without corrupting the subiect which sustayneth them in sort that when they shall be separated it is no more that which it was when they were ioyned vnto it And by this meane the bread the wine may be no more bread and wine if they haue not the colour the sauour the other qualities which are proper and naturall vnto them And if they cannot be that which they should naturally bee without their natural qualities and other accidentes their qualities and accidents may much lesse be without their substance Chap. iii. That the bread and the wine of the Supper can not be the true signes of the same if they do not remayne alway bread wine in their proper substance and nature and that the transsubstanciators cannot couer their errour with a couer of miracle FRom whence it followeth of two thinges the one which is that the bread wine remaine alwaies bread and wine aswell after the pronunciation of the sacramentall woordes as before forsomuch as they doe alwayes keepe their first nature as all the senses may iudge the which are not false or els it must be that there is some illusion which deceiueth the senses and that maketh the thinges to appeare otherwise then they are in deede by meane whereof the signes should be false not true signes Wherefore being false they could not be fignes of true things for the trouth cannot be represented by a lie nor the true by a false forsomuch as there must needes be a true correspondance betwene the signes and the thinges which they signifie They must then confesse that the accidents are wholly without substance and without subiect against the whole order of God and of nature or els that the accidents of bread and of wine be the accidents of the bodie of the bloud of Iesus Christ and that the same body and the same bloud are the subiect and the substance of them On which side soeuer they will take it Note they shal alwaies fall into marueilous absurdities For they may not here alledge miracle if that they will not by that meanes ouerthrowe the whole nature of the miracles of God as by their doctrine they do ouerthrowe the whole order of nature For as the power of God may not be separated from his wisdome by the which he neuer employeth his power but wisely and keeping alwaies good order euen so no more doth hee be it that he worke naturally or supernaturally but that he maketh that which he hath made that that which is is the same in deede that it is For if it were otherwise he should be against him selfe and against his owne woorkes Note And therefore albeit that he be almightie yet for all that he doth not neither also will he doe that the bread and the wine shall be bread and wine and that notwithstanding they shall not be at al and that they are are not at all euen together that which they are and that he would that they should be The which thing they should be if the bread and the wine of the supper did keepe continually their former nature as they do in deed and the experience sheweth if and yet for al that they should not hold their proper substance without the which they could not haue nor kepe their naturall vertue as in deede they do hold it aswell after the consecration as before And if they wil not confesse it they must then needes confesse that the naturall senses which God hath giuen vs doe deceyue vs and that the bodily and outward senses doe shewe false things to the spiritual and inward senses And if it be so there is then the woorke of God corrupted and his order wholly peruerted For euen as wee may not separate his wisedome from his power no more may wee also separate his will the which wee cannot knowe but so farre forth as he declareth by his worde Nowe he hath not declared vnto vs by the same that the bread which should be baked betweens two hote prons should be conuerted into the body of his sonne Iesus Christ by the vertue of certaine wordes spoken ouer it by the priests so appointed qualified as they are in the Romaine Church nor that the same hath euer bene done nor that it shall be done as he hath declared that his sonne should take vnto him our flesh and that he should be conceyued in the wombe of a virgine of whom he should be borne and that he should be conuersant not inuisibly but visibly among men Euen so is it of all the other articles of our faith But of that of Transsubstanciation there is no one Prophet which hath euer prophecied any thing nor Apostle no Euangelist that euer wrote any thing in such sorte as the transsubstanciatours doe expound it and set it forth For this cause the true auncient Church and the auncient doctors and diuines of the same by whose handes wee haue receiued al the symboles which the Church yet at this day vseth which doe conteyne the Articles of our faith haue not set downe any thing touching this Transsubstanciation nor no one of them which doe depend no not in the very symbole the which the priestes doe recite and sing in their masse Chapter iiii That the doctrine of transsubstanciation can not be true without spoyling of Iesus Christe and his humaine nature NOw if they take their second point whereof I haue lately spoken they redouble their faulte for by that meane they spoyle Iesus Christ of the proprieties without the which his humaine nature cannot be a true humaine nature in sort that they giue him a humaine bodie the which altogether and at one time shal be a humaine and not a humaine bodie For it cannot be a true humaine bodie if it haue not al that which is proper to a true humaine bodie and without the which it cannot be an humaine bodie be it glorified or not glorified For it must needes be alway that a bodie be a bodie be it glorified or not and not a spirite and that it doe keepe alway his naturall proprieties without the which it cannot be a true bodie and such as God hath created it and would that it should be For euen as the soule of man vnited to his bodie cannot be a bodie because that it is a spirite but remayneth alway a soule and spirite euen so the