of them as formerly Clemens Alexandrinus had done Concerning Saintly Invocation Origen saith wee must endeavour to please God alone and labour to have him Propitious unto us procuring his goodâ—will with godlâ—nesse and all kind of vertue And if Celsus will yet have us to procure the goodâ—will of any others after him that is God over all let him consider that as when the body is moved the motion of the shadow thereof doth follow it so in like manner having God favourable unto us who is over all it followeth that wee shall have all his friends both Angels and Soules and Spirits loving unto us And whereas Celsus had said of the Angels that they belong to God and in that respect we are to pray unto them that they may be favourable to us to this Origen answereth in this manner Away with Celsus his Councel saying that we must pray to Angels for we must pray to him alone who is God over all and we must pray to the Word of God his onely begotten and the first borne of all creatures and we must intreat him that he as high Priest would present our Prayer when it comes to him unto his God and our God Objection Iesuit Fisher saith that Origen in his writings upon Iob and Numbers taught Invocation of Saints Answer Bellarmine saith that Origen was not the author of those bookes upon Iob for therein is mention made of the Homousians so the Arrians called the Orthodox beleevers Now the Arrians rose not till after Origens time Origen indeed upon the Canticles saith it is not inconvenient to say that the Saints pray for us and in his Homily upon Iosuah he â—aith I doe thinke thus that all those Fathers who are departed this life before us doe assist us with their Prayers and in another place he saith if the Saints that have left the body and be with Christ doe any thing and labour for us let this also remaine among the hidden things of God and mysteries that are not to be committed unto writing Now we yeeld that the Saints pray for us in generall yet hence it followeth not that we should direct our prayers to them Besides Origens if and as I suppose and it is not inconvenient to say so these are but â—aint affirmations shewing that he speaketh doubtfully as on not fully resolved that it was so and in conclusion determineth si laborant pro nobis if in particular upon particulars they doe labour for us yet it is amongst Gods secrets and a mysterie not to be committed to writing Object It appeareth by Saint Cyprian that the Faithfull usâ—d to covenant in their life time that whether of them went to heaven before the other he should pray for his surviving friend Answer Concerning Saint Cyprians conceipt that the Saints after death remembred their old friends here as having taken fresh and particular notice of their severall states votes and necessities it followeth not thence that other Saints unacquainted with our particular desires and exigents doe in particular and by their merits intercede for the living and though they should make sute on our behalfe yet we have no warrant to pray to them To close up this poynt of Prayer to Saints Tertullian Cyprian Gregory Nyssen with others have written set Treatises de Oratione of Prayer and therein they deliver nothing touching this Saintly invocation but teach us to regulate all our Prayers according to that perfect patterne prescribed by our great Master wherein wee are required to direct our Petitions unto our Father which is in heaven Math 6.9 Luk. 11.2 These things saith Tertullian in his Apologie for the Christians in his time I may not pray for from any other but from him of whom I know I shall obtayne them because both it is he who is alone able to give and I am he unto whom it appertaines to obtaine that which is requested being his servant qui eum solum observo who observe him alone Of Faith and Merit Origen saith that Faith onely suffiseth to justification and concerning Merit the same Origen saith I caâ—â—ardly hee perswaded that there can bee any worke which may require the reward of God by way of debt seeing this very thing it selfe that wee can doe or thinke or speake any thing we doe it by his gift and largesse Objection Did not Origen and Tertullian hold Purgatory Answer Bellarmine indeed alledgeth Tertullians Booke de Animâ for proofe of Purgatory but it is well knowne that hee was led with the spirit of Montanus the Hereticke when he wrote that booke and for Origen Bellarmine confesseth hee was one of those who approoved so much of Purgatory that he acknowledged no other paines after this life but Purgatory penalties onely so that with him Hell and Purgatory were all one Objection In Saint Cyprians time the Martyrs intreated the Church for mitigation of penance imposed upon some offenders so that the satisfactions and suffering of Martyrs were communicated to others and thereby their indulgence or pardon was procured Answer In those times of persecution when many weake ones fell away from the open profession of the truth and sacrifised to Idols the Church sought by all meanes to honour Martyrdome and incourage Christians thereunto so that upon the request of imprisoned Confessors and designed Martyrs the Bishops were wont to release some time the Canonicall censure injoyned by the Church but these Martyrs did not heâ—eby think that they had made satisfaction for the temporall paine of Sin Besides this was spoken of living Martyrs and not of Maâ—tyrs defunct and of releasing censures forgiving faults in this world only not in Purgatoâ—y PA. Did not Cyprian hold Saint Peters Supremacie PRO. Hee might doe much with Pamelius his helpe who hath taken the Marginall glosse Petro primatus datur and put it into Cyprians text whereas Cyprian in the selfâ—-same Treatise saith the rest of the Apostles were even the same that Peter was being indued with the like fellowship of honour and power Cyprian indeed reverenced the Sea of Rome yet would hee have her keepe within hâ—r bounds as appeares in the case of Fortuâ—atus and others for so it was Cyprian having censured them and fearing lest they should flie to Rome and there seeke favour and protection from that Sea and so worke distraction between Rome and Carthage makes a decree to prevent Appeales to other places or claimes of other Bishops and this Synodall Epistle is sent to Pope Cornâ—lius perswading him not to admit of their complaints Seeing that it is decreed of us all sayth S. Cyprian that it is meet and right that every mans cause be heard where the crime is committed and every Pastor hath committed unto him a portion of the Flocke of Christ which hee is to govâ—rne and whereof hee is to give an account unto God and they who are under our
of the trueth of Christs flesh and bloud there is no place left for doubting Answer Neither doe we doubt of the truth of Christs body and bloud but firmely believe the doctrine of the true Incaâ—nation of Christ. Objection Hilarie saith in nobis carnalibus manentem per carnem Christum habemus we men consisting of flesh and bloud have Christ remayning in us by his flâ—sh Answer So wee have by reason of our mysticall union with Christs flesh and not by any corporall transubstantiation of our flesh into Christ. The same Hilarie saith nos in eo naturaliter inessemus ipso in nobis naturaliter permanente Christ is naturally in us and wee in him but wee are not in him naturally or carnally by any transubstantiation therefore neither is he so in us these termes then of Hilaâ—ies permanentâ—m in nobis carnaliter silium the sonne remayning in us carnally note onely a greater and more reall union than barely by consent or concord of will such as the Arrians acknowledged onely betwixt the Father and the Sonne denying an unitie of nature purposely to avoid that text I and the Father are oneâ— Hilary speaking of this neere union calleth it the mysterie of a true and naturall union mysterium verae ac naturalis unitatis and so indeed it is in respect of Christs inseparable union which hee hath with us by his incarnation by which he is become flesh of our â—lesh and bone of our bone and in respect of our mysticall union with him and his body whereby wee become members of Christs body and quickned by his spirit Object Saint Cyril in his fourth Catechisme saith He that in the marriage of Cana changed water into wine by his onely will is not hee worthy that wee beleeve him that he hath changed wine into his blood Answer S. Cyrils place maintaineth not Popish transubstantiation for in this the shapes and accidents remaine and the materiall substance is corrupted but in our Saviours miracle in the second of Saint Iohn the shapes accidents and forme were changed and the common materiall substance remained Iohn 2.9 Object Cyril saith it is not simple bread and wine it is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ibid. Answer Hee sheweth his meaning to be this namely that the consecrated bread is not common ordinary and meere naturall bread but sanctified elevated and changed to supernaturall use and operation And so I proceed The Elements called Antitypes after Consecration The Fathers of this age treating of the Sacramentall Signes call them Similitudes correspondent types or figures of the body and blood of Christ the figure of the body and blood of the Lord Iesus saith Ambrose and Nazianzene speakes as wee have heard of his sisters laying up some portion of the types or tokens of Christs precious body and blood and againe how durst I offer unto him the type of so great a mysterie in lâ—ke sort Cyril of Hierusâ—lem cals them types and antitypes and they call the Symboles after Consecration Antitypes Now that which is a figure similitude and representation of a thing is not properly the same PA. It followeth not the Eucharist is termed the figure of Christs naturall body therefore it is not substantially and properly his body The figure of a thing may be the same with the thing figured Christ Iesus is a figure of his Fathers substance Hebr. 1.3 and yet is the same substantially with the Father Iohn 10.30 PRO. There is such opposition of Relatives as that the signe and the thing signified cannot bee the same in that very respect and point wherein they are opposite for the instance brought it followeth thus the sonne is the chaâ—acter of his Fathers substance ergo the Son is not the Father though of the same substance nor is the Father the Sonne so must the opposition of necessity hold the Sacrament is the figure signe and representation of Christs body ergo it is not the body of Christ but sacramentally and figuratively In a word you say that Christ is a Character and figure of his Father and yet of the same substance but to have spoken home to the matter in question you should have said that Christ a figure of the Fathers person is yet the same person that the Father which is utterly false To procâ—ed Saint Ambrose saith if thâ—re bee such vâ—rtue in the words of our Lord to make those things that were not to begin to bee how much more powerfull is his word that they remaine the same they were and yet bee changed into another thing hee holdeth the bread and wine in the Lords Supper to remaine to bee the same thaâ— they were therefore they are not changed in substance for then they should not be the same they were yet hee saith they are changed into other to wit not in substance but in qualitie use and signification for so hee saith before the blessing of the heavenly words another kind is named after the Consecration the body of Christ is signified Now if by the consecrated bread in the Eucharist the body bee signified then is not bread essentially the body PA. Saint Ambrose in the ninth chapter of such as are newly instructed in the mysteries saith Moses his word changed the water of Aegypt into blood if so great was the benediction of man what may wee thinke of divine Consecration where the very words of our Saviour worke hee saith also that by benediction or consecration the nature of the Elements in the Lords Supper is changed PRO. Among the six or seaven examples broâ—ght by Saint Ambrose only two are substantiall and the rest accidental for in the place alledged he addeth also these examples that Moses divided the Red Sea that Iordan turned his couâ—se that the bitter waters of Mara were made sweet in all which workes of God there was no Transubstantiation for the waters and the Red Sea were the same in nature and substance as they were before so that by these examples it appeareth that notwithstanding Saint Ambrose say the nature is changed yet he meant a change in qualitie onely and not in substance And such a change there is in the Eucharist the Elements are changed when of common and naturall creatures they are made sacred and become Channels and Instruments of saving grace and such a change Ambrose meant for comparing these miracles of the Prophets wherein God changed the nature of things with the change that is wrought in the Sacrament he saith that it is no lesse to adde some new things unto things than to change the nature of things averring plainly thereby that the bread had received some new thing without loosing the nature of bread and such a change is not strange for thus a piece of waxe becomming the Kings Seale changeth it's nature without Transubstantiation Besides the Fathers use the like Tenour of speech of the Sacrament of Baptisme and yet doe not hence inferre any Transubstantiation they
Ancients used the word Merit and so also they used the termes Indulgences Satisfaction Sacrifice aâ—d Penance but quite in another sense then the later Romanists doe the Fathers who use it tooke up the word as they found it in ordinary use and custome with men in those times not for to deserve which in our language implyeth Merit of condignity but to incurre to attaine impetrate obtaine and procure without any relation at all to the dignity either of the person or the worke thus Saint Bernard concerning children promoted to the Prelacie saith They were more glad they had escaped the rod than that they had merited that is obtayned the prâ—ferment Saint Augustine saith that hee and his fellowes for their good doings at the hands of the Dâ—natists In steed of thankes merited that is incurred the flames of hatred on the other side the same Fatheâ— affirmeth That Saint Paul for his persecutions and blasphemies merited that is found grace to bee named a vessell of election Saint Gregory hath a straine concerning the sinne of Adam which is sung in the Church of Rome at the blessing of the Taper O happy sinne that merited that is Found the favour to have such and so great a Redeemer In like sort by merits they did ordinarily signifie workes as appeares by that of Saint Bernard saying The merits of men are not such that for them eternall life should bee due of right for all merits are Gods gifts Neither did the ancient Church hold merit of Condignitie but resolved according to that of Leo The measure of celestiall gifts depends not upon the qualitie of works they were not of the Rhemists opinion That good works are meritorious and the very cause of salvation so farre that God should be unjust if he rendred not heaven for the same They were not so farre Iesuited as with Vasquez to hold that The good works of just persons are of themselves without any covenant and acceptation worthy of the reward of eternall life and have an equall value of condignitie to the obtaining of eternall glorie PA. You cannot denie but that prayer for the dead is ancient PRO. The manner now used is not ancient for they that of old prayed for the dead had not any reference to Purgatorie as Popish prayers are now adayes made It is true indeed that anciently they used Commemorations of the defunct neither mislike wee their manner of naming the deceased at the holy table in this sort they used a Commemoration of the Patriarks Prophets Apostles Evangelists Martyrs and Confessours yea of Mary the mother of our Lord to whom it cannot be conceived that by prayer they did wish their deliverance out of Purgatorie sith no man ever thought tâ—em to be there but if they wished any thing it was the deliverance from the power of death which as yet tyrannized over one part of them the hastning of their resurâ—ection as also a joyful publike acquitall of them in that great day wherein they shall stand to bee judged before the judge of the quicke and dead that so having fully escaped from all the consequences of sin the last enemie being then destroyed and death swallowed up in victorie they might obtaine a perfect consummation and blisse both in body and soule according to the forme of our Churches Liturgie In the Commemoration of the faithfull departed retained as yet in the Romane missall there is used this Orizon O Lord grant unto them eternall rest and let everlasting light shine unto them and againe This oblation which we humbly offer unto thee for the Commemoration of the soules that sleepe in peace we beseech thee O Lord receive graciouslie and it is usuall in the Ambrosian and Gregorian Office and in the Romane missall to put in their Memento the names of such as sleepe in the sleepe of Peace omnium pausantium and to entreate for the spirits of those that are at rest Remember O Lord thy servants and hand maides which have gone before us with the Ensigne of Faith and sleepe in the sleepe of Peace now by Pausantium Pamelius understands such as sleepe and rest in the Lord. Where we may observe that the soules unto which Everlasting blisse was wished for were yet acknowledged to rest in Peace and consequently not to be disquieted with any Purgatorie torment So that the thing which the Church anciently aymed at in her supplications for the dead was not to ease or release the soules out of Purgatorie but that the whole man not the soule separated onely might find mercie of the Lord in that day as sometime Saint Paul prayed for Onesiphorus even whiles Onesiphorus was yet alive Besides they desired a joyfull Resurrection as appeares by severall passages and Liturgies by the Aegyptian Liturgie attributed to Cyril Bishop of Alexandria where we find this Orizon Raise up their bodies in the day which thou hast appointed according to thy promises which are true and cannot lye And that of Saint Ambrose for Gratian and Valentinian the Emperours I doe beseech thee most high God that thou wouldst raise up againe those deere young men with a speedie resurrection that thou mayst recompence this untimely course of this present life with a timely resurrection As also in Grimoldus his Sacramentarie Almighty and everlasting God vouchsafe to place the body and the soule and the spirit of thy servant N. in the bosomes of Abraham Isaac and Iacob that when the day of thine acknowledgement shall come thou mayst command them to be raised up among thy Saints and thine Elect. The like is found in the Agend of the dead already mentioned PA. Invocation of Saints was anciently used PRO. I answer that though in respect of later times Prayer to Saints and some other of our adversaries Tenets may seeme ancient and gray-headed yet in respect of the first three or foure hundred yeares next after Christ they are not of that ancient standing now the true triall of antiquitie is to be takâ—n from the first and purest agâ—s for as Tertullian telleth us That is most true which is most ancient that most ancient which was from the beginning that from the beginning which froÌ„ the Apostles so that which at fiâ—st was delivered to the Saints is truest and the good seed was first sowne and after that came the tares Besides what though some poynts in Poperie were of a thousand yeareâ— standing it is not time that can make a lye to be truth antiquitie without truth is but antiquitas erroris an ancient errour and there is no pâ—aescripâ—ion of time can hold plea against God and his truth Neither yet can you prescribe for divers Tenetâ—â— Scotus that was termed the Subtile Doctor telleth us that before the Councel of Lateran which was not till the yeare 1215 Transubstantiation was not believed as a poynt of Faith This did Bellarmine observe as
Gregorie held a Purgatorie for some smaller faults PRO. He held not your Purgatorie his was onely for veniall and light faults yours is for such as have not fully satisfied for the temporall punishment due to their mortall sinnes Againe his differeth from yours in situation for you place yours in some quarter bordering on hell but Gregorie tells us of certaine soules that for their punishment were confined to Bathes and such other places here on earth Besides Gregorie in his Dialogues whence you would prove your Purgatorie tells many strange tales as of one Stephen a Priest who had the Devill so serviceable to him as to draw off his hose of Boniface that wanting money procured divers crownes of our Lady and such like stuffe insomuch that your Canus saith Gregorie in his Dialogues hath published such miracles commonly received and believed which the censurers of this Age will thinke to be doubtfull and uncertaine Besides Gregorie had his Purgatorie and Soule masses from visions and feigned apparitions of Ghosts which the Scripture holds unwarrantable And yet Gregorie upon occasion of that place of Ecclesiastes If the tree fall towards the South or the North where it falls there it shall bee makes another inference namely this The just one in the day of his death falleth South-ward and the sinner North-ward for the just by the warmth of the spirit is carried into blisse but the sinner with the revolting Angel in his benummed heart is reprobated and cast away And Olympiodore who lived about the yeare 500 makes the very same inference and Gregorie elswhere to the same purpose saith that at the time of a mans dissolution either the good or evill spirit recâ—ives the soule as it comes out of the cloyster of the body and there without any change at all for ever retaines it that being onâ—e exalted it can never come to be punished and being plâ—nged into eternall paine can never thence be delivered Now if according to these testimonies after death there be no deliverance but that the soule for ever remaines in that degree and order wherein death takes it if there be no change after this life such as the Papists imagine theirs to be from the paines of Purgatorie to the joyes of heaven surely then there can be no Purgatory nothing but heaven or hel whither they that come abide for ever Now let us see what Gregorie held touching the Supremacie PA. Gregorie maintained his Supremacie did hee not PRO. Whatsoever he did Stapleton strives to uphold it by corrupting a place in Gregorie who speaking of Saint Peter and other Apostles saith that they were all members of the Church under one Head meaning Christ as his owne words make it cleere Now Stapleton to make the Pope Head of the Church citeth the words thus They are all members of the Church under one head Peter shuffling in the name Peter but for Saint Gregorie hee knew not your moderne papall Supremacie and when the See of Constantinople challenged the stile of Vniversall Bishâ—p he opposed it PA. He might dislike it in another and yet claime it himsâ—lfe PRO. He disclaimed it in any whosoever Now so it was Iohn Bishop of Constantinople seeing the Emperors seate translated thither and other Provinces governed by Lievtenants as also Rome besieged by the Lumbards thought this a fit season for the advancement of his chayre that the Imperiall City should also have the highâ—st chayre in the Church as the Emperour counted himselfe Lord of the World so he would be stiled Oecumenicall or Vniversall Patriarke in the Church Now when Iohn affected this Title Gregorie complained not that he wrong'd his See by usurping that stile as if it had belonged to the Pope but hee mislikes the transcâ—â—dent power claymed by that stile and he calls it A stile of noveltie and prophannesse such as never any godly man nor any of his predecessors ever used A name of Blâ—sphemie A thing contrarie to the Churches Canons to Saint Peter and to the holy Gospels Yea he pronounceth any one that should presume to challenge the forâ—said title To be the very forâ—runner of Antichrist because herein hee lifts himselfe above his brethren PA. Gregorie forbore this Title in humilitie thereby to represse Iohns insolencie PRO. This is as if a King should renounce his Royall Title to the end that a Rebell challenging it might disclaime it Gregorie indeed was an humble man and as one saith of him When he was in his Iollitie and Pontificalibus hee was not so much delighted therewith as an Hermit was with his Cat that he used to play withall in his Cell Gregorie indeed professeth to bee humble in mind but still so as to preserve the honour of his place Gregorie would lose nothing of his freehold I warrant you PA. Gregorie found fault with this Title in the sense that Iohn desired so to be universall and sole Bishop and the rest to be his Vicars or Deputies PRO. It is not likely the Bishop of Constantinople though he were a proud man would keepe all others from being bishops that is that they should neither ordaine Priests nor excommunicate nor absolve nor sit in Counsell but himselfe alone doe all Besides if Iohn had sought this surely the Greeke Bishops who consented to Iohns title of being their universall Patriarcke in respect of Order though not of Iurisdiction would never have yeelded to have made themselues onely Vicars to that one bishop and so deprive themselves of al Episcopall Iurisdiction Yea the same bishops though they submitted themselves to the bishop of Constantinople and approved his Title yet notwithstanding they exercised their ancient Iurisdiction over their severall Sees they were not degraded by Iohn or his Successor Cyriacus both which affected that Title The true and undoubted meaning then of Gregorie as his words import was this namely that Gregorie by impugning the Title of Vniversall bishop would have no Bishop so principall as to make all others as members subject to his Head-ship and is not the charge of bishops at this day under the Papacie for the most part Tiâ—ular they being wholly at the Popes becke PA. Was the Title of Vniversall Bishop so odious PRO. It was in that sense which Gregory taxed in the bishop othâ—rwise neither he nor wee mislike such Vniveâ—sall bishops as with Saint Paul Have the care of all Churches and in this respect godly bishops when they meete in Councels and in their owne Diocesses whiles by their wholesome advice admonition or reproofe by their writing or teaching they instruct others in the truth prevent Schisme and stop the mouth of Heresie may be called Bishops of the Vniversall Church Thus was Athanasius called a Bishop of the Catholike Chuâ—ch not as it precisely signifieth Vnivâ—rsall but rightly beleeving or holding the Catholike Faith PA. What conclude you out of all this PRO.
of weake abilities and also for that they had made a booke which they called the everlasting Gospell whereunto they said Christs Gospell was not to be compared Pope Alexander the fourth was content upon complaint made unto him that the Friers booke should be burned provided that it were done covertly and secretly and so as the Friers should not be discredited thereby and as for William of Saint Amour hee dealt sharply with him commanding his booke to be burnt as also he suspended from their benefices and promotions all such as either by word or writing had opposed the Friers untill such time as they should revoke and recant all such speeches and writings at Paris or other places appointed so tender was his holines over the Friers credit and reputation knowing belike what service might be done to him and his successours by these newly errected orders of â—riers I call them newly erected for in the time of Pope Innocent the third about the yeare 1198 the Iacobites an order of preaching Friers were instituted by Saint Dominicke and about the beginning of this age the order of Franciscans preaching Friers Minors was instituted by Saint Francis borne at Assise a towne in Italy Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon SCoâ—us saith that supernaturall knowledge as much as is necessarie for a wayfaring man is sufficiently delivered in sacred Sâ—ripture Thomas Aquinas in his commentary upon that place of Saint Paul the Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation that the man of God may be perfect 2 Timoth. 3.15.17 saith that the Scriptures doe not qualifie a man aâ—ter an ordinarie sort but they perfit him so that nothing is wanting to make him happy And accordingly Bonaventure saith The beneâ—it of sâ—ripture is not ordinarie but such as is able to make a man fully blessed and happy Hugo Cardinalis speaking of the bookes rejected by us saith These bookes are not received by the Church for proofe of doctrine but for information of manners Of Communion under both kindes and nâ—mber of Sacraments ALexander Hales howsoever he some way incline to that opinion that it is sufficient to receive the Sacrament in one kind yet he confesseth that there is more merit and devotion and compleatnesse and efficacie in receiving in both Againe hee saith Whole Christ is not sacramentally conteined under each forme because the bread signifieth the body and not the blood the wine signifieth the blood and not the body Concerning the Churches practise wee doe not finde that the lay people were as yet barred of the cup in the holy Sacrament for our Countrey-man Alexander Hales who flourished about the yeare of Grace 1240. saith that we may receive the body of Christ under the forme of bread onely sicut fere ubique fit à Laicis in ecclesiâ as it is almost every where done of the Laiety in the Church it was almost done every where but it was not done every where Concerning the Sacraments the Schoolemen of this age can hardly agree amongst themselves that there be seaven Sacraments properly so called Alexander of Hales saith that there are onely â—oure which are in any sort properly to be sayd Sacraments of the new Law that the other three supposed Sacraments had their being before but received some addition by Christ manifested in the flesh that amongst them which began with the new Covenant onely Baptisme and the Eucharist were instituted immediately by Christ received their formes from him and flowed out of his wounded side Touching Confirmation the same Alexander of Hales saith the Sacrament of Confirmation as it is a Sacrament was not ordained either by Christ or by the Apostles but afterwards was ordained by the Councell of Meldain France Touching extreame unction Suarez saith that both Hugo of Saint Victor in Paris and Peter Lombard and Bonaventure and Alexander of Hales and Altissidorus the cheefe schoolemen of their time denyed this Sacrament to be instituted by Christ and by plaine consequence saith he it was no true Sacrament though they were of opinion that a Sacrament might be instituted by the Apostles and therefore admitted not of this consequence Of the Eucharist COncerning the Eucharist Scotus saith that it was not in the beginning so manifestly beleeved as concerning this coversion But principally this seemeth to move us to hold Transubstantiation because concerning the Saraments we are to hold as the Church of Rome doth And hee addeth wee must say the Church in the Creed of the Lateran councell under Innocent the third which begins with these words Firmiter credimus declared this sence concerning Transubstantiation to belong to the veritie of our faith And if you demaund why would the Church make choice of so difficult a sence of this Article when the words of the Scripture This is my Body might be upholden after an easie sence and in appearance more true I say the Scriptures were expounded by the same spirit that made them and so it is to be supposed that the catholike Church expounded them by the same spirit whereby the faith was delivered us namely being taught by the spirit of truth and therefore it chose this sence because it was true thus farre Scotus Let us now see what Bellarmie saith Scotus tells us saith he that before the Councell of Lateran which was held in the yeare one thousand two hundred and fifteene transubstantiation was not beleeved as a point of faith this is confessed by Bellarmine to be the opinion of Scotus onely he would avoyd his testimonie with a minime probandum est Scotus indeed saith so but I cannot allow of it and then hee taxeth Scotus with want of reading as if this learned and subtile Doctor had not seene as many Councels and read as many Fathers for his time as Bellarmine The same Bellarmine saith that Scotus held that there was no one place of scripture so expresse which without the declaration of the Church would evidently compell a man to admit of Transubstantiation and this saith the Cardinall is not altogether improbable It is not altogether improbable that there is no expresse place of Scripture to proove Transubstantiation without the declaration of the Church as Scotus sayd for although the Scriptures seeme to us so plaine that they may compell any but a refractary man to beleeve them yet it may justly be doubted whether the Text be cleare enough to enforce it seeing the most acute and learned men such as Scotus was have thought the contrary thus farre Bellarmine unto whom I will adde the testimonie of Cuthbert Tonstall the learned Bishop of Durham His words are these Of the manner and meanes of the Reall presence either by Transubstantiation or otherwise perhaps it had beene better to leave every man that would be curious to his owne conjecture as before the councell of Lateran it was left and Master Bernard Gilpin a man most holy and
amisse and not to prosecute Luther but this Councel was not followed wherupon divers parts according to Gersons Councel began this worke of Reformation so much desired by all good men howsoever opposed by the pope and his adherents PA. A Reformation presupposeth that things were amisse will you charge the Catholicke Church with errour PRO. Wee say that particular Churches and such is that of Rome may erre and divers have erred Sixtus Senensis reckons up many Fathers that held the Millenary errour mistaking that place in the Revelation 20.5 They said that there should be two Resurrections the first of the godly to live with Christ a thousand yeares on earth in all wordly happinesse before the wicked should awake out of the sleepe of death and after that thousand yeares the second Resurrection of the wicked should bee to eternall death and the godly should ascend to eternall life this errour continued almost two hundred yeares after it began before it was condemned for an heresie and was held by so many Church-men of great account and Martyrs that Saint Augustine and Ierome did very modestly dissent saith the same Senensis The opinion of the necessity of Infants receiving the Sacrament of the Lords body and blood as well as Baptisme did possesse the minds of many in the Church for certaine hundreds of yeares as appeareth by that which Saint Austine writeth of it in his time and Hugo de Sancto victoâ—e many hundred of yeares after him Were there not also superstition and abuses in the primitive Churches did not a Councell forbid those night vigils which some Christians then used at the graves of the Martyrs in honour of the deceased Saints and are not these Vigils now abolished Doth not Saint Aâ—stine confesse there were certaine Adoratores sepulchrâ—rum â—t picturarum worshippers of tombes and pictures in the Church in his time and doth not the same Father taxe them for it To come to later times Thomas Bradwardine complayned That the whole world almoâ—t was gone after Pelagius into errour arise therefore O Lord saith hee and judge thine owne cause Gregorius Ariminensis saith That to affirme that man by his naturall strength without the speciall helpe of God can doe any vertuous action or morally good is one of the damned heresies of Pelagius or if in any thing it differ from his heresie it is further from truth The same Gregory saith The heresies of Pelagius were taught in the Church and that not by a few or them meane men but so many and of so great place that hee almost feared to follow the doctrine of the Fathers and oppose himselfe against them therein Cardinall Contaren saith That there were some who pretended to be Catholikes and opposite to Luther who whiles they laboured to advance free-will too high they detracted too much from the free-grace of God and so became adversaries to the greatest lights of the Church and friends to Pelagius It is not strange then that weâ— say there hath beene a defection not onely of Heretikes from the Câ—urch and faithâ— but also in the Church of her owne children from the sincerity of faiâ—h dâ—livered by Christ and his Apostles not for that all or the whole Church at any time did forsake the true faith but for that many fell from it according to that of Saint Paul 1. Tim. 4.1 In the last times some shall depart from the faith attâ—nding to spirits of errour Besides such a famine of the word as fell out in these later times must needs have brought in corruption in doctrine and this was it that called for Reformation For in sundry ages last past the Roman Church hath behaved her selfe more like a step-dame then a naturall mother insomuch as shee hath deprived her children of a principall portion of the food of life the word of God her publike readings and service were in an unknowne tongue the holy Scriptures were closed up that people might not cast their eyes upon them fabulous Legends were read and preached insteed of Gods word but as Claudius Espencaeus a Doctor of Paris a bitter enemy to Bâ—za and therefore more worthy of credit in this bâ—halfe saith Our Ancestors as devoutly affâ—cted to the Saints as we thought is not fit that the rehearsall of the Saints lives should shoulder out the bookes of the old and new Testament and the reading thereof And hereby it came to passe as one of their owne Authors saiâ—h That the greater number of people understood no more concerning God and things divine in particular and distinct notions then Infidels or heathen people And here in England there was such a dearth of the word in these later times of popeâ—y that some gave five markes some more some lesse for an English booke some gave a load of hay for a few Chapters of Saint Iames or of Saint Paul in English Was it not now high time to reforme these things but Rome would neither acknowledge her errours nor reâ—orme them but rather sought to defend them persecuting such as by authority established laboured this reformation How easie and safe had it beene for Rome had shee tendered the peace of Christendome to have according as the truth required permitted the uâ—e of the Cup as sometime the Councell of Basil allowed it to the Bohemians and the publike service of God in a knowne language as was sometimes granted to the Slavons as also to have abolished the worship of Imâ—ges and the like without which the Church wâ—s and that very well for a long time But Rome would not yeeld in one point lest shee should bee suspected to have erred in the rest and therely the Infallibility of the Roman Oracle the Pope bee called in question PA. That which is reformed remaines the same in substance that it was before And therefore the Catholike Religion and the substantiall exercise thereof should have remayned in England upon the Reformation but you have set up another Religion PRO. We doe not say that the Catholike Religion is reformed for that cannot bee amended but that wee have reformed Religion in that we have purged it from certaine devises and corruptions which had crept into it Before this reformation Religion was like to a certaine lumpâ— or masâ—e consisting partly of gold aâ—d partly of other refuse mettall and drosse to a sicke body wherein besides the flesh blood and bones and vitall spirits there were also divers naughty humours that had surprised the body our reformation tooke not away your gold to wit those fundamentall truths wherein you agree with us but purged it from the drosse it drew not the good blood from the body but onely purged out the pestilent humour so that we have retained whatsoever was sound Catholike and primitively ancient onely those things that were patched to the ground-soles of Religion that wee have pared away as superfluous wee have not removed the ancient land-markes