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A01735 A short reply vnto the last printed books of Henry Barrow and Iohn Greenwood, the chiefe ringleaders of our Donatists in England VVherein is layd open their grosse ignorance, and foule errors: vpon which their whole building is founded. By George Gyfford, minister of Gods holy worde, in Maldon. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1591 (1591) STC 11868; ESTC S118836 80,934 106

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sundry respects to be warned before when wée shall depart out of this world and a thing which we couet and I see no reason why we may not for such respects craue it of the Lord. You would make men beleeue that we coniure Christ by his incarnation by his natiuitie baptisme fasting and temptation by his agony and bloudy sweat by his Crosse and passion c. When we pray to be deliuered by them hath not our Sauiour dotte these things for our deliuerance And did he not deliuer vs by them What blasphemie heresie or coniuration is there then in this praier as to say deliuer vs by thy precious death and passion You aske where we learned to pray for our forefathers offences I answer that wée reade that the Lord will visit the sinnes of the Fathers vpon the Children and therefore we desire the Lord not to remember the sinnes of the forefathers to bring punishmēt vpō vs. It is a blinde collection whē any gather herby that we pray for the dead that their sinnes may be forgiuen them These then bée the blasphemies and heresies which you Master Barrow doo accuse the booke of to shew that you did not lye and slander but how well you haue acquit your selfe let all those iudge which haue any sobrietie And now touching this that you did affirme the best part of the booke to be but as a péece of swines flesh and abomination to the Lord you goe about to defend your wicked spéech by the abuse which I told you before could be none answer for the things are holy in themselues although coniurers and Papists abuse them neuer so much Touching the Lords Praier we deale about it in the questiō of read praier For the articles of the faith you wold know what profe by Scripture we can make for that blasphemous Article that Christ descended into hell Also in your other booke page 76. these be your words Their forged patcherie commonly called the Apostles Creede or Symbole Athanasius Creede the Nycen Creede Let the world iudge what cause you haue to glory in your sufferings and whether ye be not liker Rabsaka who boasted also that God sent him against Ierusalem then any of the holy Martyrs of Christ Is there any Christian eare but will abhorre this beastly spéech when you terme the Articles of our faith a forged patchery And doo you not I say euen as a very Rabsaka most wickedly reproach all Churches both of old and in these dayes Athanasius Créed which is the Nycen Créed is drawne from the word It is the summe of the most glorious faith concerning the blessed Trinitie and some other Articles which all true Churches and Christians haue euer professed and doo professe And for the Apostles Créede if it were not in the time of the Apostles yet was it presently after that confession or prosession of the faith which euery one of yeres made which was admitted to receaue the holy baptisme It is euery part drawne expressely but of the sacred writings of the Prophets and Apostles And for that one article of Christs descending into hell it is not blasphemous nor yet hath in it any error vnlesse it be misunderstoote The Papists are very grosse in it and fabulous touching his descending to fetch out the souies of the pacriarches Others doo hold that our Sauiour in soule after his passion descended into hell though to no such purpose this is not blasphemie nor heresie The place of Scripture which seemeth to warrant that his soule descended into hell is in Psalme 16. Thou shalt not leaue my soule in hell neither shalt thou suffer thine holy one to see corruption Scheol doth signifie both hell and the graue and in this place say they which hold that his soule descended it must néedes be taken for hell because the soule goeth not into the graue Yet because Nephesh may be diuersely taken as it is vsed sundrie times in Moses for the dead bodie as also that it dooth signifie the vitall spirit and so it is no absurditie to say after a manner of speech that the life is shut vp in the graue so long as the body remaineth there hereupon some doo expounde these words he descended into hell to be no more but thus hee went downe into the graue And whereas the order of the articles seemeth to ouerthrowe this exposition because it is said he was dead buried and descended into hell they expound this clause he was buried he was inbaulmed as it is said when the woman powred the precious oyntment vpon him that she did it to burie him Matth. 26. Nicodemus brought Mirre and Aloes this dressing of the dead body say they was of the Iewes called buriall and the putting into the graue descending into hell Others doo take it that descending into hell is meant that he remained in the state of the dead Others that in his soule while he was vpon the Crosse he suffered the torments of hell as it is most certaine he did Now Master Barrow seeing the words be in the Scripture thou shalt not leaue my soule in hell and the matter resteth onely vpon the exposition what immodest and intemporate heat or rather furiouse outrage is this to crie out of a blasphemous article and to terme the articles of our faith our forged patcherie Also for singing of Psalmes I will note here vnto the reader your foule prophane speeches in page 180. thus you write Heere would not bee forgotten also the sweete Psalmodicall harmonie of the Vultures Crowes Gleads Owles Geese of the Leopards Beares Wolues Dogs Foxes Swine Goates pardon mee for thus the holy Ghost termeth and likeneth the prophane multitudes assembled in the false Church all these together with one accord simphonie and harmonie sing some pleasant Ballad or else vnto Dauids melodious harpe some Psalme in rime I say not rithme now or meeter well concinnate to the eare though neuer a whit to the sence purpose or true vse of the Psalme before the sermon to stir vp the spirit of their worthy priest or preachers who being rapt and rauished with this harmony goes to his geere informe aboue said where his mouth distilles and his lippes droppe such old parables such premeditat and well studied and chosen sentences as shall displease no partie vnles he be of too suspitious a nature Your owne words Master Barrow which I haue set downe doo shew themselues so vngodly and prophane vnto euery Christian minde yea vnto euery one which hath but a sparke of humane ●●uility and modesty left in hun that I néede not to say much for albeit our Sauiour called the Scribes and Pharisies which were sworne enemies vnto the Gospell and sought by their counterfait holines to seduce others generations of vipers and serpents Herod that foxe and Saint Paule called the false Apostles dogs yet is it no excuse or colour for your prophane impiety against all degrees and sorts both of men and women which are no such enemies but loue and