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A02483 An ansvvere to a treatise vvritten by Dr. Carier, by way of a letter to his Maiestie vvherein he layeth downe sundry politike considerations; by which hee pretendeth himselfe was moued, and endeuoureth to moue others to be reconciled to the Church of Rome, and imbrace that religion, which he calleth catholike. By George Hakewil, Doctour of Diuinity, and chapleine to the Prince his Highnesse. Hakewill, George, 1578-1649.; Carier, Benjamin, 1566-1614. Treatise written by Mr. Doctour Carier.; Carier, Benjamin, 1566-1614. Copy of a letter, written by M. Doctor Carier beyond seas, to some particular friends in England. 1616 (1616) STC 12610; ESTC S103612 283,628 378

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heauen and surely mine opinion is God forgiue me if I thinke amisse that a great part of those who professe his naturall body to be here doubt much of his being there And for the grace of his humanitie as you call it thus much no Christian man will denie that when Christ sanctified his owne flesh giuing as God and taking as man the holy Ghost he did not this for himselfe onely but for our sakes that the grace of sanctification and life which was first receiued in him might passe from him to his whole race as malediction came from Adam vnto all mankinde That which quickeneth vs is the spirit of the second Adam and his flesh that wherewith hee quickneth our corruptible bodies could neuer liue the life they shall liue were it not that here they are ioyned with his body which is incorruptible and that his is in ours as a cause of immortality and as little doubt there is but that this vitall and sauing grace which flowes from the humanitie of Christ is imparted vnto vs by meanes of the Sacraments they being sensible instruments for the conueying of those blessings to our soules which are in themselues incomprehensible And for that Sacrament which is most properly said to impart life vnto the receauer as the other doth food and sustenance it is acknowledged by those very men who are otherwise most bitter and vncharitable towards vs that children baptized with vs are thereby made capable of eternall saluation as far forth as if they had receiued that Sacrament in that Church after that forme which they cal Catholike cōsequently you are inforced out of the strēgth of your own principles to grant howbeit out of malice you labour to denie it that the grace of Christs humanity is not onely present with vs in corners and prisons among your complices but in our publique congregations in a more speciall manner then by the power of his dietie by which he is as wel present among the diuels in hell as among the Pope Cardinals assembled in consistory for the subuersion of states and ruine of kingdoms yet to affirme that he is none otherwise present in that Church except in corners and prisons and places of persecution but onely by the power of his dietie and not at all by the grace of his humanity I will neither be so vnaduised as to deliuer nor so vncharitable as to conceiue howbeit I haue good reason both to conceiue and to deliuer thus much that the honour which you pretend you doe him in your will-worship cannot but redound to his great dishonour nay our assurance is that being successours of his Apostles and Disciples in doctrine as you are of the Pharises in traditions the promise of his presence to the worlds end as well by the sanctification as the direction of his holy Spirit is rather made to vs then you B. C. 8. And for his mysticall body which is his Church and Kingdome there can bee no greater dishonour done to Christ then to maintaine Schisme and discention therein What would your Maiestie thinke of any subiects of yours that should goe about to raise ciuill dissention or warres in your Kingdome and of those that should foster and adhere vnto such men It is the fashion of all rebels when they are in armes to pretend the safety of the king and the good of the countrey but pretend what they will you cannot account such men any better then traitours and shall we beleeue that our blessed Sauiour the King of kings doth sit in heauen and either not see the practises of those that vnder colour of seruing him by reformation doe nothing els but serue their owne turnes and distract his Church that is his kingdome on earth by sedition or shall wee thinke that hee will not in time reuenge this wrong verely hee seeth it and doth regard it and will in time reuenge it G. H. 8. Wee as willingly grant as you are ready to prooue that a great dishonour is done to Christ by maintaining Schisme and dissention in his Church which ought to bee without seame as his coat But we demand who were the authours of this Schisme they which departed not frō the Church it selfe but from the corruptions thereof or they who stiffely maintaining those corruptions inforced this departure when Iacob was driuen to depart from Laban by his ill vsage was the breach in Iacob or in Laban when God commaundeth his people to goe out of Babylon lest they should partake of her sinnes and plagues doeth the going out of the people make a Schisme or the sinnes of Babylon It is true that wee haue forsaken that society which wee held with Rome but no farther then Rome it sel●●●ath forsaken Christ and howsoeuer shee pretend the hon●●● of Christ as rebels doe the name of the King and State yet in trueth she is Antichristian in persecuting the members of Christ and as in many other things so chiefly in challenging that vniuersality of power and infallibility of iudgement to her selfe which is onely due to our Sauiour And shall we thinke that he will not in time reuenge this wrong It cannot be but that her sinnes are come vp to heauen and God hath remembred her iniquities and in due time that command will take place Reward her as she hath rewarded you and giue her double according to her workes and in the cup that shee hath filled to you fill her the double in so much as she glorified her selfe and liued in pleasure so much giue ye to her of torment and sorrow for shee saith in her heart I sit being a Queene and am no widow and shall see no mourning Therefore shall her plagues come at one day death and sorrow and famine and shee shall bee burnt with fire for strong is the Lord God which will condemne her And thus our assurance is that your threats shall returne vpon your selues verily hee seeth it and doth regard and will in time reuenge it B. C. 9. But I hope and pray that hee will not reuenge it vpon you nor yours but rather that he will shew that your desire to honour him is accepted of him and therefore will mooue you to honour your selfe and your posterity with bestowing the same your fauour vpon his Church in the vnity thereof which you doe now bestow in the Schisme and that hee will reward both you and yours for the same according to his promise not onely with euerlasting glory in heauen but also with long continued temporall honour and security in this world and this is the first reason of my hope grounded vpon the promise of God G. H. 9. You are herein somewhat more manerly in words though litle lesse malicious in heart then Dr. Bishop a bird of the same feather who in an Epistle directed in like manner to his MAIESTIE as yours is spares not to speake out but tels him plainely when they see no hope of remedie the
if they had the like dispensations or Kings to Kings or Subiects to subiects And if this be not to make a meere mockery of oathes which should be made in trueth in iudgment and in iustice and consequently of religion as if indeede there were no punishment of Hell no reward of heauen I conceiue not what is and by your owne rule this contempt of religion cannot but in time drawe on the destruction of those States which thus vnder pretence of religion and obedience to their holy Father neglect and contemne it Lastly if they esteeme so little of oathes made one to another what should we expect at their hands to whom they hold Faith is not to bee held bee it neuer so solemnely plighted whereas Abraham made conscience of his oath taken to Abimelech and Iacob to Laban both Idolaters and so did they againe though Idolaters or Infidels to Iacob and Abraham But let such as maintaine that position That faith giuen or sworne to Heretikes or Infidels is not to bee held call to minde what successe it tooke at the battaile of Varna in Bulgaria in the yeere of our Lord 1404 what time Ladislaus the yong King of Polony by the dispensation of Pope Eugenius and the perswasion of Iulianus his Nuntio broke his Oath and League made with Amurath the second Emperour of the Turkes in which battell the King his horse being first killed vnder him was stricken downe and slaine the Popes Bishops that were in the field to incourage the souldiers fleeing to saue themselues fell into Bogges and Marishes and there perished Iulianus the Cardinall which with the Pope was the chiefe doer in breaking the League was found dead in the way being full of wounds and spoyled to his naked skinne and all the ditches and trenches were filled with the blood of Christians A memorable spectacle of Gods vengeance vpon the breach of oathes made euen to Infidels Discite iustitiam moniti non temnere Diuos B. C. 15. The deuill that intendeth the destruction aswell of bodies as of soules and of whole States as of particular men doth not commonly beginne with mens bodies and with matters of State but being himselfe a Spirit and the father of lies hee doth first insinuate himselfe into mens vnderstandings by false principles of religion whereunto hee hath the more easie entrance because hee hath perswaded their gouernors to beleeue that it is no great matter what opinions men hold in matters of religion so that they looke well into their actions and keepe them in obedience Which perswasion is all one as if the enemie that besiegeth a citie should perswade the garison that they might surrender the Castle to him well enough and keepe the base towne to themselues But when the deuill hath preuailed so farre as by the matters in the first truth that is of religiō to get the vnderstanding in possession which is the Castle as it were and watchtower of both the soule and bodie and state and all hee will peraduenture dissemble his purpose for a while and by slandering of the trueth and pleasing them with the trifles of the world which by Gods permission are in his power make men beleeue that the world is amended For nemo repentè fit pessimus but shortly after when hee seeth his time hee will out of his arsenale of false apprehensions in the vnderstanding send foorth such distorted engines of life and actions as will easily subdue both bodies and states and goods and all to his deuotion G. H. 15. This Section together with your former for any thing I can gather serue onely to make a large Portall to a little Cottage and wide Gates to a Citie that may runne out of it you fetch a great swinge to strike a litle blow and a full carriere to leape ouer a straw It is throughout a meere flourish rather intended as it seemes to amaze the reader as Mountebankes doe their hearers with arsenals of apprehensions and distorted engines of actions then to teach him the plaine and simple trueth scarce so good as a Metaphor which I haue heard tending to the contrary of yours that if the Faux of our concupiscence should once giue fire to the powder of our appetite it were likely to blowe vp the Parliament house of our reason The scope you driue at as I conceiue is this that the vnderstanding being misinformed in religion produceth answerable effects in the cōuersation which we as easily grant as you vnnecessarily goe about to proue The heathen Philosopher could tell vs Si cui intueri vacet quae faciunt quaeque patiuntur superstitiosi inueniet tam indecora honestis tam indigna liberis tam dissimiliasanis vt nemo fuerit dubitaturus furere eos si cum paucioribus furerent nuncsanitatis patrocinium est insanientium turba If a man had the leisure to looke on those things which men possessed with superstitious opinions both doe and suffer hee should find thē busied about matters so vnbeseeming honest minded men so vnworthy of free ingenuous spirits so vnlike the effects of sober and setled braines that a man would sweare they were starke mad were but the number of them lesse that went a madding whereas now the onely cloake to palliate and patronize their madnesse is the multitude of mad men Which words sound to me as if the marke they shoot at had been the practise of the present Church of Rome issuing from their false and superstitious opinions touching Gods worship In which whether we consider the things they doe in the administration of their Sacraments about the reliques of dead men in setting foorth the feasts of our Sauiour and the Saints or what they suffer in Pilgrimages in Penances and the like if the same things were acted but by fewe in number which now by long custome and common consent are growen familiar to them being practised by multitudes I cannot iudge them so vnwise but themselues if they stood by and looked on would iudge them mad I haue heard of a Turke who comming to Rome and beholding their most abominable and licentious disorders at their Carneuals and presently vpon it their counterfet sadnesse and hanging downe their heads like a bul●ush vpon Ashwednesday so named for the ashes which they tooke he conceiued that the sprinkling of ashes had bene a speciall remedie for the curing of madnes but to the matter It is true indeed that where Idolatrie and vngodlinesse goeth before there a giuing vp to a reprobate sence and worldly lusts follow after as S. Paul rangeth them in his first to the Romanes and his second to Titus Yet on the other side it is as true that vpon the putting away of good conscience in the entertainement of worldly lusts as often ensues a shipwrake of Faith in opening a gappe to vngodlinesse as we learne of the same Apostle 1. Tim. 1. I haue obserued it in mine owne experience and so I thinke
as the Apostle speakes an end of all strife It is the last resolution in the search of truth and in the body politique the strongest sinew next the bound of nature and conscience wherby the members are tyed to the head and the head againe to the members and the members knit among themselues for the Pope then to promise his Maiesty security and yet by this meanes to withdraw the hearts of his Subiects from their naturall allegeance is as if a man should promise secure passage ouer a Riuer and yet pull downe the bridge or take away the boats which serue for that passage His Maiestie on the other side hath declared the Pope to be Antichrist in his opinion and can hee expect honour or securitie from Antichrist who hath hitherto depended on none but CHRIST he may also be pleased to remember what securitie the two last Henries of France receiued from him Lastly if the Powder-treason were vndertaken without the Popes priuitie how can hee secure his Maiestie from the like except hee can diue into the secrets of mens harts or haue the art to foresee things to come or to charme the deuils in hell God defend vs from such securitie which hath the face of a man but the teeth of a Lyon which first lulles vs asleepe and then driues a naile into our heads My conclusion of this point shall bee that common speech of the Italians themselues Acibo bis cocto a medico indocto a vento percolato inimico reconciliato liberanos Domine from such honour as is expected from a Romish reconciled enemie Good Lord deliuer vs so that wee are verily perswaded by yeelding your necke to the yoke of Rome and perswading his Maiestie and his Subiects to doe the like you haue disclosed your hypocrisie violated your oath disgraced your nation stained your profession forsaken your duetie to your Soueraigne your respect to his Nobles and loue to his Commons and Clergy and not onely so but aswell by your example as exhortations endeuoured what in you lay by wounding euery particular member vtterly to ruine the whole body both of Church and Common-wealth from such Phisitians Good Lord deliuer vs. B. C. 46. But that I must trust to when all the rest will faile mee is the seruice of God and the sauing of my soule in the vnitie of that Church which was founded by Christ himselfe and shall continue vntill his Comming againe wherein all the Saints of God haue serued him on earth and doe enioy him in heauen without which Catholike Church there is no Communion of Saints no forgiuenesse of sinnes no hope of resurrection vnto life euerlasting I beseech your Maiestie let not Caluins Ecclesia Praedestinatorum deceiue you it may serue a Turke as well as a Christian it hath no faith but opinion no hope but pres●mption no charitie but lust no faith but a fancie no God but an Idoll for Deus est omnibus religionibus commune nomen Aug. Ep. All religions in the world begin the Creed with I beleeue in God But homini extra ecclesiam Religio sua est cultus phantasmatum suorum and error suus est Deus suus as Saint Augustine affirmeth G. H. 46. It seemes then you trusted little to the effectuating of these idle phantasticall proiects whereabout you haue made so much adoe and so many vaine flourishes and indeed your confidence could not bee so little as you had little reason to bee confident they should take effect That Church which was founded by Christ himselfe and shall continue vntill his comming again wherinal the Saints of God haue serued him on earth and do enioy him in heauen without which there is no communion of Saints no forgiuenes of sinnes no hope of resurrection vnto life euerlasting is indeed the true Catholike but not the Rom. Church it being founded by Christ before his Comming in the flesh and shall continue vntill his comming againe but not as tied to any certaine place in it all the Saints of God serued him on earth as the Patriarches and Prophets who liued some of them before the foundation of Rome without it there is no Communion of Saints no forgiuenesse of sinnes no resurection vnto life euerlasting which no doubt by Gods mercies and Christes merits would still remaine though Rome were turned into ashes and the Pope into nothing howbeit as a late writer hath well obserued ignorance is now become generally so powerfull a tyrant as it hath set true Philosoiphie Physicke and Diuinitie in a pillorie and witten ouer the first Contra negantem principia ouer the second virtusspecifica and ouer the third Ecclesia Romana making it the onely market or rather Monople both for deuotion and saluation That there is a visible Church in which the Elect and Reprobate are blended together in the outward profession of supernaturall verities and the precious meanes of saluation nay in the illumination of the minde and sundrie inward graces Caluine denieth not but that none are true and liuely members of the mysticall body of CHRIST which hee hath ransomed with his blood and doeth quicken and formalize with his Spirit and will finally crowne with eternall blisse saue the Congregation or Church of the first borne whose names are written in heauen hee truely affirmeth And if Caluin deceiue vs herein so doeth S. Augustine too who in his third booke of Christian doctrine and 32. Chapter disputing against Ticonius who had called the mysticall bodie of CHRIST which is most properly and principally the Church a body bipartie as including both good and bad vseth these wordes Non ita debuit appellari non enim reuera Domini corpus est quod cum illo non erit in aeternum It ought not so to haue beene called in as much as it is not truely the bodie of CHRIST which shall not euerlastingly bee with him nay not onely Caluin and Augustine deceiue vs but S. Paul in the fourth to the Ephesians the fifteenth and sixteenth verses and againe in the fift Chapter of the same Epistle the 25. and 26. verses but for the better clearing of this point wee must conceiue that the Elect or Predestinate of God are of two sorts some elect onely and not yet called some both elect and called of the latter there is no question but they are the principall parts of the Church of God and touching the former they are not actually in the Church but onely potentially in Gods prescience and predestination who hath purposed that they shall bee and knoweth that they will bee when wee say then that none but the Elect of God are of the Church of God wee meane not that others are not at all nor in any sort of the Church but that they are not fully and finally of the speciall number of them who pertake of the most perfect worke force and vertue of that sauing grace whereof that Church is the onely dispenser Neither can this Church serue a Turkes turne aswell as