sparkled thorowe al the worlde there is no creature nor liuynge man that can be the heade seynge there is not that can be in all places where she is nor that can gyue hyr ayde and assistence suche as to hyr is requisite but the onelye Iesus Christe the whyche by hys diuine power and by hys holye spirite fulfilleth the heauen and the earth and is present vnto all hys elected the whiche he doeth leade conducte gouerne and vinifie whyche non other can or maye do wherefore what so euer he be that wyll make hym selfe heade of thys churche whereof he oughte to be but a membre he is neyther heade nor mēbre but doeth make hym selfe a mēbre of Antichriste and hathe chosen Satan for his head in asmuche as he setteth him selfe in the place of Iesus Christe settyng vp hym selfe aboue hym not knowledgynge him for his head vnto whom boeth Angelles and men oughte to be subiectes for S. Paul shewyng the fruites of the resurrection and ascention of Iesus Ephe. i. iiii Colo. i. ii Christe wryteth howe that God hath exalted and set hym vp aboue all heauens and aboue all the thrones powers Lordeshyppes and dominions and hathe gyuen hym to be heade of hys churche Natha I vnderstande wel what thou wouldeste saye I shall holde me then vnto hym and wyll neuer acknoweledge other head of that triumphant churche but shall holde for hys ministers the true ministers and pastours of his churche and the other whyche wyll attribute vnto them selues that dignitie for verye Antichristes But lette vs come nowe vnto that thou haste promised me and declare vnto me what example we maye take of all the historie of oure lorde Iesus Christ Phy. That were very longe to be recounted and tolde for ther is nothynge so litle whiche cōteineth not greate sacramēts misterie but I wyll onelye sette forth the thynge vnto the in two wordes by the which thou maist iudg of al the reste The historie of our lord Iesus Christe serueth vs for an example in two maners and fyrste howe we oughte to confirme How the historie of Iesu christ serueth for exemple oure selues vnto hym as concernynge oure regeneration and spirituall lyfe whyche is hidden in him the other howe we oughte to confirme oure selues vnto hym in oure outwarde lyuynge cōuersatiō Natha The more thou wouldeste make the thynges shorte the more they seme darke vnto me wherfore I pray the thynke not muche nor spare me nother tyme nor wordes but expounde me the thynges so largly that I may haue cleare vnderstandynge of them and tell me the fyrste poynte what vnderstandeste thou by the spirituall lyfe of the whych the historie of Iesus Christ serueth vs for an example Phylype I vnderstande that all the lyfe of Iesus Christe oughte fyrste to serue vs as an allegorye by the whyche we oughte spirituallye to yelde oure selues to be conformable vnto Iesus Christe in that whyche verelye riallye hathe bene accomplished in hys bodie the which can not be in ours Natha Thou speakest not much clearlier thē thou dydeste therefore declare vnto me that whych thou wouldeste say by exemple Phy. I am contente Iesus Christe hath beene conceiued by the holy Gost borne of the virgyn Marye he hath bene crucified dead buried is rysen agayne and gone vp into heauē all whyche thynges can not be accomplished in oure bodies as they haue bene in hys But lette vs take payne that oure spirite maye in the same be conformable vnto hym oure bodies be conceyued and borne in synne and iniquitie not of the holy Goste in the wombe of a vyrgin but of corruptible seede and then for to be conformable vnto hym in thys lette vs nowe come vnto hys church beleue in hys Gospell and in the same whyche is oure mother and a virgin pure and chast we shal be conceyued and begotten by the incorruptible seede of the word of God our father and by Spiritual cōceptiō birth Gala. iiii i. Petre. ii Iohn xxxi Ephe. iiii the vertue of hys holye spirite shal be borne agayne chyldrene of God and shall be newe creatures and put of the olde manne and put on the newe bearynge the Image of the newe Adam whyche is Iesus Christe as wee haue borne that of the olde and of the synfull man Natha Beholde for thys is a holye conception and happye byrth Phy. Then in asmuche as we be all ready so conceyued of the holye Goste and borne of that pure virgin the churche whyche is the spouse of Iesus it muste followe also that the Eph. v. reste of oure lyfe be conformable vnto that of Iesus Christe accordynge to our spirituall conception natiuitie and byrthe We be not crucified nor put vnto death as he was but learne we of him to beare our crosse To be crucified with christ wyth him to be crucified vnto the worlde the worlde vnto vs as saynte Paule doeth write of hym selfe Nathana And howe can we be crucified vnto the worlde and the worlde vnto vs Phylyp When we dye vnto the world likewise dieth the world vnto vs. Na. These maner of speakynges To die to the worlde be verye darke Phy. They be darke vnto them whyche be not acquaynted or accustomed wyth the maner of speaking of the Apostles But I do vse ◠wyllynglye boeth to accustome the and bycause I do take pleasure in the stile of the spirite of God and of his Apostles To be crucified and dead vnto the worlde that is to be crucified dead vnto sinne and that is to forsake Rom. vi synne to haue no more acquayntaunce wyth hym and to do him no more seruice thē the dead do vnto the lyuynge for as the dead haue nothynge in commune wyth the liuinge but be seperated the one frome the other and haue no more acquayntaunce togyther euen so be they deade vnto the world which haue forsaken it to serue God and wyl no more be conformable vnto it that is to saye vnto the fleshe nor vnto hys concupiscences so is it impossible but they whiche be thus dead vnto the worlde liue vnto God and the worlde To liue vnto the worlde lykewise dead vnto them by the contrarye they whyche lyue vnto the worlde and vnto whom the worlde lyueth be dead vnto God as the Apostle doeth wryte of the voluptuous wydowe sayinge the wydowe whyche i Timo. ii doeth lyue in lustes pleasures in so lyuyng is dead and bicause that she lyueth vnto the worlde she is dead vnto God so then when we dye vnto the worlde we ryse vnto God and do practise in oure selues the exemple of the death and passiō of Iesus Christ spiritually whē we mortify our earthlye mēbres offer our bodies as lyuyng sacrifices vnto god Roma xii Colo. iii. and do kil by the swerd of the worde and do burne vp by the fyre of his spirite oure cōcupiscence carnall affectiōs lustes whiche be
corporallye frome heauen the vertue and power of hym selfe and of hys holye spirite were not great and shoulde not haue so muche power as the sunne the which without coÌ„ming down from heaueÌ„ doth veri wel coÌ„municate his light and heate to meÌ„ wherfore may not theÌ„ Iesu christ coÌ„municate him selfe to oure spitites soules bodies by the vertu of his spirite coÌ„ioyne vnite vs wyth him selfe as the meÌ„bres wyth their head We haue not theÌ„ ani caus to make a god of the bodie of Iesus or a moÌ„struousse bodie which shold fulfil al places or to gyue hym manye bodyes as we muste neades be coÌ„strained to do if we will folow the doctrin of the priestes seynge that they wyll that all in one hours one selfe minute momente and instante he shoulde be in so manye places all at a time it is much more sure to holde our selues vnto the testimonie of the Angels whiche haue testified vnto hys disciples the daye of hys ascention that as they sawe hym goe vp visiblye so shoulde he be seene descend whych Act. i. he him self also before had affirmed Sayinge that he should come as a lyght whych should be seene from the Oriente vnto the occidente Math. xxiiii wherefore he doeth declare that he shall not come inuisible and that there where hys bodye shall be there shall be hys elected Natha These wordes be vnderstand of hys The sacrameÌ„tal commyng of Christe corporall commynge vnto the iudgement but there is an other whiche is sacramental Phy. I deny not but Iesu Christ cometh eueri day vnto vs and is in the middeste amonge vs wyth vs vnto the ende of thys worlde presente vnto vs but that is by his diuine vertue and by hys power and hys holye spirite but of commynge and presence corporall and carnall the scripture promiseth vs no other theÌ„ that whyche shall be at the laste daye I deny not but he is present vnto vs by hys worde by hys sacramentes but that is in the maner that I haue alreadye shewed Natha Thou wylt then saye that he descendeth not corporallye vnto the laste daye Phy It is the scripture that so sayeth and not I. Nathana Howe shall he come then and in what fourme Phy. He shall come accompanied wyth Angelles wyth the cloudes in the Math xxv glory of God his father in the propre fourme that he ascended Natha Wherefore shall he come then in hys propre bodye then visiblie rather then nowe Phy. Bycause that then shal be the tyme that he muste make accompte and make them pertakers of hys glorye and immortalitie whych haue suffered wyth hym and beleued in hym and shall make them the fote stole of hys feâ—e whyche haue resisted hym to the ende they may feele hym theyr iugde and Lord in theyr greate confusion in the daye of the ire of god in asmuche as they woulde not knowe hym nor receiue hym for theyr sauioure in the time of grace and mercie Natha Wherfore sayest thou the quicke and i. Cor. xv i. Tessa iiii the dead shal there be then some lyuynge Phy. Accordynge to the sayinge of Saynte Paule it is manifeste that there shall be then when he shall come the whyche neuertheles shal be chaunged and hydden sodaynlye and shall mete Iesus Christe in the ayre Natha And shall they come before theÌ„ that be dead Phy. No. For fyrste the trumpet shall blowe and the dead shal aryse and then all togyther shal be found in a momeÌ„te wyth the Lorde Natha And shall not the same dye Phylyp Saynte Paul calleth not that chaunge death because it shal be more shorte and sodayne theÌ„ the twynkelynge of an eye but neuertheles they shall be all togyther chaunged euen as they whyche shall haue slepte in the pouder of the earth and shall put of mortalitie for to put on immortalitie Natha Thou vnderstandest then by the lyuynge the deade them whyche at that time shal be lyuyng and them whyche before that time shal be dead Phy. I saye that the article maye verye well be so vnderstande and that the doctrine of S Paule is conformable vnto the same vnderstandynge but we maye also well vnderstaÌ„d it otherwyse wythout contradiction of the scripture Natha Declare it vnto me Phy. We may take thys copulation for one vniuersall signifiynge as muche as thoughe we would say he shal come to iudg the quicke and the dead that is to saye al humayne creatures for the same two wordes doeth comprehende all sortes of people or he shall come to iudge the quike whyche yet at thys presente tyme be alyue whyche shall dye neuertheles at theyr tyme and the dead that is to saye all them whyche haue bene before vs whyche is as muche as thoughe he shoulde saye all them whyche haue bene be shal be of what estate or condicion so euer they be Nathanaell Declare vnto me yet in how manye maner of wayes I maye vse these thyngs vnto my profit Phylype In verye manye but I shall touche one or two of the pryncipal Thys iudgment of God oughte to learne and admonishe vs to walke in thys same mortall pilgrimage in simplicitie of herte and to putte a sure brydle vpon oure carnall concupiscences and to redresse and refourme oure selues to the ryghte waye of the wyll of God beyng assured that we must make accompt that not vnto a mortall manne as we be but vnto hym that knoweth not onelye all oure worckes but also al our wordes and thoughtes knowynge that Math. xii Math. i. there is nothynge so secrete but at that tyme it shall be discouered before God before hys Angelles and before all menne that euer shal haue bene vpon the earth We ought then to be verye ware to doe any thynge in secrete whyche wee woulde not do openlye but we oughte to walke in thys lyfe as thoughe wee sawe God alwayes before oure eyes And after the abydynge and lokynge for this Iudgemente oughte to wythdrawe oure selues frome doynge anye wronge or iniurye vnto anye persone and oughte well to keepe oure selues frome goynge out of the ryghte waye of trueth other for anye prayse or for anye disprayses or for sclaunders or for the good or euyll wyll of menne nother yet for anye profitte or dammage that myghte come vnto vs nother for prosperitie nor aduersitie that myghte come for we are certaine that then shall be holden the greate and laste appellation and all causes shall be broughte forthe and iudged but not accordynge to the iudgement of men but accordynge to the iust iudgmente of God by the whyche euery one shal receiue praise or shame vituperie accordynge as he shall haue deserued Natha Thys article as thou expoundeste it ought to brynge greate consolation vnto all the true fayethful whyche suffer persecution in thys worlde knowynge that at that tyme theyr sorrowe shall be turned into ioye and theyr shame into glorye and of the contrarie it oughte to gyue greate feare
myghtye wynde when he gaue hys holye spirite vnto hys Apostles Phylyp There is no doubte but he dyd it to The holye spirite sheweâ— in wynde signifie that as the winde suffereth the Rociers the litle and small trees and ouerthroweth by the rootes breaketh down broseth and maketh ruinous the greate myghtye trees So the vertue of thys holy spirite is to bring consolation to the hertes aflicted to purge the consciences to iudge the euile to ouerthrowe and sette downe the proude and to vpholde beare vp the weake and humble Natha If we wyll then haue anye thynge of God we muste obteygne it by Iesus Christe workynge in vs by hys holie spirite Phylip. It is euen so for by hym all the beleuers be vnite in one self body with their head Iesus Christe and be nourished and vinified in hym as by the soule and spirite all the meÌ„bres whyche be in one bodye be partakers of the goodnes which is in the same body Natha I beleue for that cause we put to by by after thys article the which appertayneth nyghe vnto the churche the whych is the bodye of Iesus Christ of the whyche thou speakeste of vinifiynge sanctifiynge by the same holy Gooste for we do saye by and by after the catholyke churche Phy. There is no doubte Natha In asmuch theÌ„ as we haue treated the other three partes The church of the crede that we be come to the fourth whyche concerneth the churche daughter of the celestiall father spouse of Iesus Christe tell me fyrste what thou callest the church Phy. Churche signifieth congregation and assemble Eph. v but I do take it and vnderstaÌ„d it here for the asseÌ„ble of the true and faythful christians whyche be vnite coÌ„ioyned by one selfe spirite and one selfe fayeth Natha Is there anye other church then the churche of the faithfull Phy. As we do cal the bodye and membres of Iesu Christe the churche so hath Antichriste hys body and membres whyche togyther make the malignaunt churche but for asmuche as that toucheth vs in nothynge we leaue it aparte and speake only here of the tru The malygnant church church of Iesu Christe therfore do we cal it holy Natha For what cause Phy. To put difference betwene hyr and the church of Antichriste and for asmuche as she is sanctified by the holye Goste for to be the temple and habitatioÌ„ of God Natha Wher fore doest thou also call it catholike what signifieth that worde catholyke Catholike Phy. It doeth signifie vniuersal and therfore do I saye I beleue the vniuersall churche bycause the churche doeth signifie all assembles and congregation where the fayethfull be assembled as is the church of Choâ—hi of Rome Galathiens and othere lyke I wyll declare that there is one catholyke churche that is to saye vniuersall and generall comprehending all the other the whyche is generallye sowen thorowe all the worlde onelye knowen of the onelye God whiche knoweth the hertes Natha If she be sowen thorowe all the world how is she a church seing that church signifieth coÌ„gregatioÌ„ asseÌ„ble so as thou sayeste it should seeme rather to disperation seperation and confution Phylype Therefore muste we considre thys The churche inuisible churche spirituallye and muste not thynke it to be a visible and local assemble sette and limited in a certaine place Nathana Howe vnderstandest thou thys or howe can the churche be inuisible seyng it is the assemble of the fayethful whyche be visible menne Phy. I denye not but that the men whyche be of the churche be visible but thys ioynynge togyther of the churche oughte not to be considered of the coniunction of the bodies but of the hertes spirits that be inuisible which none cause and therefore notwythstandinge I see the menne that be of thys churche wheÌ„ they be presente wyth me yet neuertheles I The churche mingeled thorowe all the worlde can not see them all because they be sparkeled abrode thorowe all the worlde and thoughe they myght be assembled all in one place yet coulde I not knowe them perfectlye because that the elected shal neuer be so wel seperated in thys worlde frome the infidels and reproued but there shall be alwayes manye hypocrites mingled amonge them the whyche we can not wel deserue nor iudge vnto such time as Iesus Christe shall make seperation of the Math. xxv goâ—es from the lambes and of the wheate froÌ„ the tares therfore do I saye that thys church is inuisible because the eye caÌ„ not se it nor the humayne iudgmeÌ„t wel deserue it therfore do we saye we beleue it for if we did se it at our eye wee beleued not but notwythstandynge we can not se it at our eye yet we beleue that the Lorde hathe hys elected whyche notwithstandynge they be sparkeled aboute thorowe all the worlde as touchynge theyr bodies be yet neuertheles so ioyned togither by the spirite of God that they be but one selfe bodye one selfe herte and one selfe soule Act. ii iiii Natha Thou wylt then saye that the vniuersall churche is a spirituall and inuisible asseÌ„ble of all the elected and chyldrene of God whyche be vpon the earth in what place so euer they be whyche notwythstandinge they be seperated and farre distaunte one frome a nother as concerninge theyr bodyes yet they be all vnite by one selfe spirite into one body misticall of the whyche Christe is the head Col. i. ii whyche dyed for to assemble the chyldrene of God that were sparkeled but if thys church be inuisible howe canste thou saye thou beleueste in hyr and that thou holdeste hyr fayth howe canste thou knowe what she is what she beleueth if thou know hir not Phylype I saye not that I beleue in hyr Natha Doeste not thou confesse I beleue in the holye Gost the holye vniuersal churche Phy. I do saye and confesse openlye I beleue in God the father and in Iesu Christ and in the holye Gooste but of the churche I do not saye I beleue in the holye churche but I beleue the holye churche Nathana Is it not all one what difference is there Phy. Verye greate For if I sayed I beleue in the holye church I should coÌ„fesse that I put my trust in hyr as I haue sayed before to beleue in God and the churche is not god but is an asseÌ„ble of men cursed is man that trusteth in man wherfore if I sayed I beleue Iere. xvii in hyr I should speake agaynste my self and should reuerse the fayeth which I haue coÌ„fessed hytherto Nathana Declare vnto me the differeÌ„ce Phi. By expositioÌ„s going befor it is opeÌ„ inough what seÌ„ce mi words should haue if I sayed I beleue in the church But when I do saye I beleue the holie churche that is to saye I beleue and confesse that ther is an assemble by the whyche I haue diffined the churche and that in the same I wyll lyue and dye Natha Howe wylt
thou lyue and dye in hyr when thou knowest not where she is Phy. Although I can not perceiue nor know al that be coÌ„prised in it yet neuertheles I haue certayne sygnes by the whyche I know am assured what she is Nathanaell What be those sygnes Phy. In all places coÌ„panies Syngnes to knowe the church by â— where as the worde of God is purelye opened receyued the sacrameÌ„tes of Iesu Christ obserued and kept I am certaine that there is of the shepe of Iesus Christe of the elected or otherwyse hys voyce should not be opened nor yet receyued Natha Thou wylt then saye that the worde of god the sacrameÌ„tes of Iesu Christ be indubitable signes of the same but manie speak of Iesus Christe and make semblant to heare hys worde whych be hypocrites beleue not in hym as Iudas was and suche â—yke And coÌ„trariewyse there be many vnknoweÌ„ which be estemed vnhappy damned yet haue faith shall atteyne to the kyngdome of heauen be fore them that shewe greate apparant as Iesus Christe dyd saye the harlottes publicaÌ„s Math. xxii shoulde obteigne it before the scribes phariseis Phy. Therefore haue I sayed that thys churche is inuisible vnknowen vnto me not bicause we se not with the bodily eyes the meÌ„ whyche be of it but because that man can not se the hertes nor can not deserue nor knowe whether the man that he seeth beleueth or no Ephe. ii how holie soeuer he seme nor none caÌ„ know it but the onlie God which gyueth the fayth knoweth the herte that receyueth it Nathan Thou art then ofteÌ„ begiled thinking that the church is wher the gospel is preached the in stitutioÌ„ of Iesus obserued seing that they that be ther do such thyngs may be such as Iudas Act. i. v. viii SimoÌ„ magus Ananias Saphira weâ— Phylip. Albeit that suche hypocrites maye be mingled in greate numbre amonge the faithful which be alwayes the lytle flocke yet neuertheles it is certayne that amonge them be some of Christes shepe for els God woulde not permit nor suffer that the preciouse pearles and margarites of hys holye Gospell shoulde be caste before dogges swine only Natha What if the wolues swine and dogs call theim selues shepe and in stede of the gospell sette forthe theyr owne dreames and humayne traditious howe causte thou knowe deserue the churche â— Cor. xii Phy. The Lorde hathe lefte vs hys holye scriptures for to iudge and deserue by the analogie of the fayeth and the rule of charitie whether the spirites be of God or not whether the spirit in the which I beleue do raigne the whyche is gyuen vnto the elected for to iudge all thynges for the spirituall man iudgeth all thynges and is iudged of no man Thâ— roman churche Natha And is not the romayne churche that holie catholyke church which thou beleueste and must be folowed Phy. If the romayne churche do abyde and perseuer in the apostolyke doctrine I wyl reknowledge hyr a churche of Iesus Christ inasmuche as she declareth hir selfe to be the spouse of Iesus Christe in obeying vnto him as vnto hyr heade and for to lyue vndre hys lawes and ordinaunces but yet maye I not take it for thys vniuersal church of the which we haue spoken for she can be but a meÌ„bre of that churche no more then other congregations and other christian churches that be abrode in the uniuersall world seperated both in places and bodies and yet ioyned in spirite and soule makynge all togyther one vniuersall churche Nathan But is not the Romayne church the heade of all the other vnto the whyche all the other oughte to obeye as subiectes Phy. If she be head she is no more theÌ„ nother spouse nor membre of hys body suche as the faythfull ought to be if she wyll haue dominion gyue lawes vnto other she is no more a churche of Iesus but is the churche of Antechriste whyche attributeth vnto hyr self the office appertayninge vnto Christe for the office of the churche is not to gyue lawes vnto hyr but receiue them of hym and to make hyr selfe subiecte vndre the same Natha The churche then whych wyll exarcise power ouer the other gyue theim other lawes then the Gospell of Iesu is no churche of Christe bycause hys spirite reygneth not ther but to what purpose serueth it to beleue the vniuersal churche Phy. Without that article al the reste goyng before shoulde serue me for nothyng For all that we haue sayed of God that we beleue of the father of the sonne and of the holye Goste hath regarde vnto thys churche without the whyche all oure faith should be vaine for in this crede we do not considre what god is in hym selfe but what he is towardes vs whyche be hys churche and by what meanes he hath willed hyr to be deliuered conserued ruled gouerned wherefore al that we haue treated here before pretendeth to thys end for we muste nedes haue layed thys fundatioÌ„ to buylde after thereupon thys edifice wythout the whythe the fundation shoulde profitte vs in nothynge if we were not surelye builded there vpon Nathana I vnderstande well that thou haste sayed of the vniuersall churche but I desyre yet much to knowe what thou vnderstandest by the communion of sayntes Phy. I vnderstande here no other thyng but that whyche I haue alreadye sayed that is to saye the holye vniuersall churche but this we put to the better to declare the vnite that is amoÌ„ge the faithful for as in one towne in one coÌ„mon wealth in one coÌ„munaltie coÌ„munioÌ„ amoÌ„ge the inhabitauÌ„ces citizens membres that be within it so likewise in the churche of Iesu christ ther is one vnite aliauÌ„ce burgelie brotherhede whyche after such sort conioyneth the bodie with hys head Iesus Christe all the membres the one wyth the other that they haue no goods that is not coÌ„mune amoÌ„g theÌ„ nor that the one doth not coÌ„municate vnto the other for Iesu Christ coÌ„municateth al his goodes to his membres al the goodes that he doth coÌ„municate to his churche returneth or coÌ„meth to euerie one of his meÌ„bres in perticuler euerye one receyueth his parte as the meÌ„bres the which the head doth coÌ„municate vnto them as the soule whyche is shed thorowe all the bodye giueth life vnto all the meÌ„bres of the same Nath. It is then no small benifite to be in the churche of Iesus Christe-nor no smal euil to be out of that churche Phy. It is with theÌ„ that be without as wyth the braunche that is cut of the vine or as the bowgh or twigge cut of the tre the which froÌ„ theÌ„se forth can haue nother nourishmente nor life but must neades drie away is good for nothing but to be cast in the fyre Na. They which be excommunicate be they out of thys coÌ„munioÌ„ Phylip. The word of
be spiritual be commune vntâ—â—â—l but there is an othere coÌ„munion betwen◠〈◊〉 Sayntes that yet be lyuynge them whiche be departed for eyther of theim haue theyr estates aparte And therefore is there no suche CoÌ„munioÌ„ betwene saintes lyueinge and them that bee dead communion betwen the Sayntes that be departed and vs as there hathe bene betwene them in the time that they lyued and theÌ„ that lyued wyth them at the leaste we haue no testimonye of the holye scriptures for they serue not nowe vnto the church wyth the giftes and graces whyche they in theyr tyme receyued of God for the edification of the same for they haue fulfilled and ended theyr course and theyr ministration whyche nowe is committed vnto others and of the other part thei haue no more nead of vs nor of oure goodes for they be out of al necessitie Nath. Oughte we not then to honour them Phy. We may not honoure them as though they were present wyth vs nor do vnto them reuerence nor salute them nor speake to them nor presente vnto them of oure goodes nor anye maner of seruice for othere honourâ— nor seruice can we not do vnto them but in folowynge theyr holye doctrine and holye lyfe and conuersation as they haue folowed Iesus Christe for those be the reliquies that they haue lefte vs in the whych they would be honored by vs and so then when wee haue the â—â—lye scriptures in reuerence the whych god hathe geuen vnto vs by them then do we honoure theyr reliquies Nathana It is then greate folye to offre vnto Offerynge to sayntes them breade wyne candels golde and siluer and other thynges lyke seynge they haue no maner of nede Phylyp That is a furye or follye more then paâ—â—imrie it weare muche better for to offre vnto the lyuynge Images and Sayntes for to accomplishe that whyche the Apostle exhorteth vs to admonishynge vs to communicate vnto the necessitie of the sayntes it is verye cleare that he speaketh not there of the Sayntes departed but of the lyuynge and of the pore membres of Iesus Christe beinge among vs languisshyng and ouer preste with pouertie and necessitie Nathana I doubte not but those offerynges were more pleasynge vnto God Phi. Such were they of the primatiue church for the gatherynge spendynge and distributynge of the whiche the churche at that tyme haddâ— hyr deacons to serue at the tables and At. vi Rom. xvi vnto the necessitie of the pore we can no here fynde chapell churche or Image more meete for the practisynge of thys excommunicatioÌ„ and to offre vnto the Sayntes then in visitynge the hospitales pore wydowes orphaÌ„s fatherles sycke lame neadie and indigeÌ„t Vpon suche Sayntes ought the goodes of the churche to be employed and spente and vpon them that serueth hyr and haue nede Nathan That same were a goodlye thynge but tel me yet what seameth it the of brotherheades and monkerye for seynge there is but Deut. vi i Timo. ii Ephe. iiii one christian church one communion of laintes one God one mediatour of God man one spirite as we haue coÌ„fessed hytherto and that all is but one gospell one Baptisme one Ceane one fayeth and that all the christians ought to be in one selfe bodye one selfe herte and one selfe soule it seameth to me that ther oughte to be but one religioÌ„ and one brotherheade seyng that al the christians be brothers haue all receyued one selfe spirite of fayeth and christiaÌ„ religion Phy. There is no doubt but they which haue bene the authours of the monasticall lectes and that foloweth theim suche as they be at thys presente tyme and those brotherheades lykewyse taken of the folowynge of the panyms be Apostatase from the true church of Iesus Christe for as Sismatykes they do deuide breake and teare the communion of saintes for as there is but one God so can there be but one religion The whyche S. Iames doeth diffine in thys maner the religion that is pure and without spot towardes God the father is thys Viset the fatherles widowes in theyr neades and tribulations and be not spotted defiled wyth thys worlde he doeth not saye that the true religion is to shute thy selfe in a cloister or to dwell in the deserte to be disguised in diuers habites to eate and deuour the pore widowes fatherles vndre the colour of long praiynge for suche religion is to much pharisaicall but the christian religioÌ„ doth lye in fayeth whyche maketh vs studye vnto all puritie and innocentie to exercise our charitie towarde our neyghboure whych is the true marke of the true christians disciples of Iesus Christe the Abbot of that religion is God the father and the gardian is Iesus Christe and the religious brethrene be al true christians and faythfull for as the Apostle testifieth the spirite of God witnesseth vnto oure spirite that we be the chyldrene of God by the whyche we crie Abba that is to saye father then in as muche as Abba doeth signifie father and that wee take God so to be and call hym father there is theÌ„ no doubt but he is the Abbot and founder of oure religion Act. ii Ephe. ii the whyche he doeth conserue maynteyne and gouerne by Iesu Christ hys sonne whom he hath giuen to be head of the church Ihon. vi x. and into whose handes he hathe putte vs all to be vinified sanctified vnite and conioyned wyth hym by hys holy spirite and the habite that we muste put on in thys religion is oure Lorde Iesus Christ the newe manne whiche we muste put on and of the olde Adam for Ephe. iiii we muste chaunge the skynne and the herte and not the ayer and the coote or clothes Nathana In asmuche then as God is the father of vs all and that wee make inuocation vnto hym by that name it doeth folowe also that we be all bretherne and so wyll Iesus Christe that we call oure selues and then if we be all brethrene wee be then one brotherhead I can not then vnderstande that here is anye other brotherhead but that of the holye Gooste by the whyche the churche is assembled and all the sayntes vnite and conioyned in one communion Phy. Thou concludeste verye well therefore Brotherhed Math. xiii confesse we fyrst in this crede the faith which we haue in the father whyche saueth vs by Iesus Christe hys sonne and doeth sanctifie vs by hys holye spirite whych be of one selfe essence and diuinitie wyth the father in the whyche we beleue and put al oure truste we laye fyrst the fundation and the cause and after we come vnto the churche whiche vpoÌ„ the lâ—me is founded builded Howe can we theÌ„ saye that we be of the brotherhead of Saynt Bernarde and of Saynte Sebastian and of The brotherhed of saynts suche othere lyke or of Saynte Barbara or saynt Katheryn or of oure Ladye or of anye other of the holye Sayntes what soeuer they be
kyngdome seynge we be so pore and miserable Phylype We be kynges in asmuch as we be fre by Iesu Christ the which hath made vs fre deliuered vs from al our enemies the whych he hath made subiecte vn Iohn viii to vs and hath made vs Lordes of the heauen and earth for to raygne wyth hym receiuing vs as hys brethren into the communioÌ„ of his Ephe. i. inheritaunce and of hys kyngdome Natha Howe hath he made all subiecte vnto vs seynge we be yet subiecte vnto synne and haue so muche vnhappynes and haue yet so manye enemies that we can not enioye that whych God hath gyuen vs. Phy. Notwithstandynge that synne and the deuell do make vs war that it doeth vnto vs that we haue neede of many thynges yet neuertheles ther is nothynge neyther in heauen nor in earth that may anoye or damne vs nor there is nothynge whyche shall not be subiecte vnto vs to serue vnto oure saluation and be turned to oure benifite for all thynges be ours and we be Christes and Christe is Goddes and all thynges happen and be turned to the profitte of the elected Natha I vnderstand now this point expounde vnto me nowe howe we be prophetes and priestes Phy. In asmuche as he hath geuen vnto vs hys holy spirite for to leade vs into the know How christiaÌ„ men be prophetes Iohn xiiii xiâ— xvi ledge of all trueth and hath opened vnto vs by the same the wyl of God his father there is no doubte but we be all prophetes that the leste of the fayethfull may not speake and open more clearelye and hyghlye the misteries of Iesus Christe and declare more largly his death resurrectioÌ„ theÌ„ the greatest prophet which was before his comming in the whych is well fulfilled accomplished that whyche Ioel. ii Act. ii S. Peter alledgeth of Ioel sayinge I shal shede forthe my spirite vpon you and your sonnes and daughters shal prophecie but yet not wythstandynge that all be prophetes as conceruynge the knowledge of God yet neuertheles it doeth not followe that it is or shoulde be laweful to al or euery man to take the office of a prophet in the churche and christian assembles but onely for them whych be called of God and chosen and elected by his churche vnto that office for to opeÌ„ and declare hys worde and minister hys sacramentes albeit that it is euerye one of oure offices to do the office of a prephet in our houses towards oure families and also our neighboures wheÌ„ occasion is gyuen vnto vs but that muste be so done and in such sorte that the ordre which God hath put in hys churche be not violated nor conuerted or coÌ„founded Natha There resteth now no more but of our priesthod Phy. We be priestes and true sacrificers in Christian priesthod Rom. xii asmuche as by the spirite of Iesus Christ we offre oure bodies hertes soules vnto God as a quicke liuely holy spiritual and acceptable sacrifice wyth all that we haue to serue vnto hys honour and glory Natha By that thou haste expounded vnto me of the kyngdome of Iesus Christe of hys propheticall office and sacerdorall dignitie I vnderstande not onelye what prophet kyng and prieste he hath bene and what is the vertue and excellentie of hys sacrifice but also howe that al hys offices and titles doeth apperteyne vnto vs and yet neuertheles there abideth in me a certayne scrupulositie Philip. Towchyuge what Nathana Towchyngethe sacrifice of Iesus Christe for thou doest saye that by hys sacrifice he hath fulfilled that whyche all the Leuites coulde neuer do and if it so be that the sacrifice of Iesus Christe onely be perfecte we muste then haue non other but holde our selues vnto the same Phy. EueÌ„ so ought we to vnderstand it Nata Haue the christiaÌ„s theÌ„ no mo sacrifices Phy. Not materiall and visible but onelye those of the whyche we haue spoken and the sacrifices of prayses whyche be the prayers of the fayethfull and the almes of the faieth full whyche be the offerynges aâ—ceptable vnto God and all good workes done vnto his prayse but for the redemption of soules remission of sinnes there is none but that of Iesus Christe Nathanaell Then they whyche offer and synge for the redemption of the soules as well of lyuyng as of the deade and whyche doo offre for the redemption and remissioÌ„ of theyr synnes be no christ â—â—us nor do not beleue Iesus to be Christe thoughe they confesse hym wyth the mouthe Phy. They be christians as the Iewes whyche dyd persecute Rom. ii ix Christe be true Israelites and chyldreÌ„ of Abraham by name onelye for if Iesus be that Christe he is the true sacrificator if he be the true sacrificator whyche saueth the synners it muste needes be that hys sacrifice be perfecte for otherwyse he shoulde nothynge differ frome the sacrificatours of the Leuites whyche were synners nor yet hys sacrifice frome the calues shepe and rammes offered in the olde testament so should he not be the Christ Natha It semeth vnto me that which thou sayest is not out of reason Phy. By this we maye well Iudge that the greateste parte of christians do not vnderstaÌ„d what is signified by the name whyche they beare nor yet what they coÌ„fesse wheÌ„ they saye they beleue in Iesus christe for if they vnderstode that they should be deliuered from manie errours superstitions Idolatries and blasphemies which they coÌ„mit nor they shoulde not dispend somuche monye to cause masses to be song for the deade nor should not make so greate expences aboute the outwarde and material sacrifices nor shoulde not be in such dissention as they be for the masse and for the ceremonies and traditions of men Nathanaell Wherefore sayest thou that Phylype Bycause they shoulde be all conteÌ„ted with the sacrifice of Iesus Christe and of the saluation whyche they haue receyued by hym and shoulde offre vnto the poore that wepe that whych they offre vnto the priestes that synge and vnto the quicke and liuely Images of God that whyche they offre vnto dombe and deade Idols and shoulde succure the lyuynge wyth the goodes they spende aboute the dead Nathanaell Howe vnderstandeste thou that Phy. Thou wylte not denye me but that the Hebr. ix i. sacrifice of Iesus Christe is perfecte seynge saynt Paule doeth wytnes it Nathana God forbyde Phy. If it be perfecte it is then sufficiente we must make no mo nor take awai nor put to anye other wyth hym for God hath no neade of anye humaine healpe neadeth not that man should put to his hande after him in that which he hath fully made and coÌ„sumate Natha I do confesse it Phy. And if thou wouldest not confesse that that of Iesus Christe were perfecte and sufficiente for to gyue place vnto them whyche be made by men I wyll reproue by the same all the other sacrificies that euer myght be made for whych of theÌ„ myght we
do promisse them heauen But what maner of proceading is thys for whan the conscience doeth feele it selfe loden wyth the burthen of hys sinnes the eyes open and seeth hym selfe personally before the iudgment of God whyche can receiue nothynge but that whych is iuste perfecte what consolation maye the conscience receyue of hys worckes the whyche at that tyme she shall knowe to be al vnperfecte and be nothynge but synne and vnworthye to be presēted before the maiestie of God what terrour and feare ought she to haue when she seeth that horryble mouthe of hell wyde open readye to swalowe hyr except she haue other ayde and succoures then of hyr selfe yea and if she haue not truste and confidence that she is deliuered and saued not by hyr owne rightuousnes but by that of Iesus Christe or if she be so blynded that she haue some truste of hyr workes and leaue vpon the same and not the promises of God and the grace in Iesus Christe what maye come of hyr but fall into the depe pytte of hell seyng the forsaketh Iesus Christe and hys satisfaction toward god whyche can not be ioyned or haue anye place wyth oure satisfaction whyche of it selfe is nothynge Natha There be which doe comfort them of a better sorte shewynge them the miseries of thys presente lyfe and howe that death is vnto them the ende of al euiles and an entrie vnto reste and the begynnynge of felicite Phylype That same semeth to haue some coloure and to be mete to bringe consolation but the phylosophers haue done s◠muche theyr bokes doe conteigne no lesse but there muste be an other consolation for to appease the conscience pressed wyth the iudgmente of God the whych is not found but in the christian doctrine and in the death and resurrectiō of Iesus christ for valiantly to entre into the battell of death boldly to present hym selfe before the iudgmente of God there is no better waye or meane then for to dispayre of hys own vertue power to put hys onlye trust hope in Iesus Christe to condemne hym selfe and all hys workes to iudge thē worthye of eternall death dampnation and to present him selfe before God in the onlye cōfidēce that he hath in Iesus Christe beyng assured of hys saluation by the onelye fauoure grace and mercie of the same Nata I beleue well that thys is the beste of all other that there is none other for trulye thou haste opened vnto me a goodly shope full of all maner of medicines againste al maner of sikenesses aduersities boeth of soule and bodie in the which I am determined to fetch all the medicines whych shal be necessarie for my saluation Phy. It there cam a poticarie or phisitian which would promise medicines and remedies for to heale all sikenesses and for to kepe a mā alwaies in health ther is none but would runne to hym yea and bestowe al hys gooddes to bye that health howe poore so euer he were what desyre oughte wee then to haue and to runne vnto Iesus Christe whiche is the soueraigne true medicine which healeth not onelye the bodyes but also the soules from al infirmities sikenesses and doth not onelye keepe theim in healthe durynge thys mortall lyfe but that more is it doeth keepe theim frome euer diynge and maketh menne immortall and to lyue eternallie which none Iohn iii. vi other medicine can do And that wee myghte the better loue hys medicines and that he myghte the better insite vs the better to come vnto hym he doeth Esai i. ii lv gyue the vnto vs frely without demaūdinge other golde or syluer and therefore we be verye miserable to forsake hym for to haue recourse vnto the popes priestes and monkes whyche so dearlye sell theyr medicines vnto vs the whyche can in nowise profit vs but rather venim and poysen our soules and consciences Natha I intende neuer frome hence forthe to haue recourse to other but to hym and to the ende I maye the better knowe hym I praye the let vs come vnto the article folowinge the whyche alreadye hathe bene expounded for by that thou haste taught me thys daye thou haste inough opened the vnderstandynge for to learne me to knowe how I ought to practise all the christian doctrine and howe to vse it to my profitte Phy. I wyll also doe that whyche thou desireste but to kepe the ordre wee haue begon holdē hitherto we may of thys mattier make here a stoppe and so go forwarde wyth that that foloweth as we haue done before And we haue also commoned lōge mongh for one Nathanaell I shall alwayes agre to all that thou wylte ⧠In thys dialogue shall be spoken of the second comminge of Iesus Christe of the nature of hys gloriouse bodye of hys laste iudgmente Phylype VVe haue all readie treated largly of the historie and misterie of oure redemption and that whyche doeth concerne the fyrste commynge of oure Lord Iesus Christ in the fleshe the causes of the same what he hath done for vs and the fruites we oughte to abyde and loke for There resteth now to speake of hys secōdcōmynge in the whyche he shall appeare not in humilitie and infirmitie as he dyd at the fyrste but in glorye and maiestie not for to open and pronounce the grace and mercye of God vnto sinners as he hath done before but for to glorifie wyth hym selfe them whyche receyued hys grace and mercie in the tyme that he presēted and offered it vnto them and for to condemne iudge them whych woulde not knoweledge hym for theyr sauiour And for to reenter into the matter resite that which foloweth Natha There foloweth after that whych we haue sayed That he is set vpon the ryghte hande of God and from thense shall come to The second commynge of Christe iudge the quike and the deade I do fyrste demaunde of the if the bodye of Iesus Christe glorified be in some certrine place or whether it be in diuers places or in al places Phy. It ought to suffice vs to knowe beleue that whyche we haue al readye sayed of hys ascention and of hys seate vpon the ryghte hande of God I denye not but Iesus Christ is in al places by his diuinitie and by his holie How Christ is in al places spirite in asmuche as he is God but in asmuche as he is trulie man hys bodie can not be a true and verie bodie without occupiyng some place To be in al places as hys diuinitie is it can not be of hys nature for nothyng can be ouer all but God wherfore if hys bodye were ouer all and in all places it shoulde folowe necessarilie that it shoulde be God If it weare God it shoulde then not be a bodye but a spirite and Iesus Christe should not be verie God and verye man but God onelye and the body which he did take in the wombe of the virgyn
should be a newe God whiche had some beginnynge the whyche is a thinge repugnaunt vnto the nature of God Natha But mai not God do what so euer he wyll in asmuche as the diuinitie of Iesus Christe can not be seperated from hys humanitie is not hys bodye in all places wher his diuinitie is Phy. Nothinge is impossible vnto God and albeit he may do al yet neuertheles his power is aswayes conioyned wyth hys wisdome and vseth it not disordinatly but alwayes in suche sorte that hys worckes be not confused but that hys creature abideth alwayes a creature gyuing him suche propreties as he will and yet foloweth it not that the diuinitie and humanitie of oure Lorde Iesus Christe be so inseperable that hys humanitie fulfilleth the heauen and the earth as hys diuinitie doeth for my body and my spirite be conioyned togyther and yet it foloweth not therefore that my bodye shoulde be in all places where my spirite maye be for my spirite maye be rauished euen vp into heauen and yet my bodye neuertheles shal be in the earth or and if thou loueste better the cōparison of Saynt Austen God dwelleth in vs by hys holy spirite and yet neuertheles we be not in all places and enerye where where God is albeit he dwelleth in Iesus Christe otherwyse then in vs but thys ioyninge togither or comunction of two natures doeth not take from the natures theyr propreties Natha But is there no difference betwen the bodies glorified and the mortall and corruptible bodies Phy. Yes verye greate and I denye not but The glorious body of chirst that the gloriousse bodie of Iesus Christe is now farre other then it was before his death and resurrectiō yet hathe he not for all that chaūged his body but hath alwaies kept the same he had before hathe not chaunged his substaūce except that he hath put of the qualities of imperfectiōs miseres which he toke for vs is immortal glorious or otherwise he shoulde not be trulie rysen nor we shoulde not call the resurrection resurrection excepte that same propre bodie and that same propre flesh whych is fallen by death were rysen vp agayne nor shoulde not receyue lyfe by the same so myght it be rather called mutation or chaunging thē resurrectiō thē to dispute subtellye curiouslye of the properties of the bodye glorified of the place where the bodye of Iesus Christe is shoulde be a thynge not onelye vnseamynge but also vnworthye of the simplicitie and of the euangelicall doctriue we ought to contēt our selues to knowe Luke xxiiii Iohn xxi that Iesus Christe is in the celestiall glorye and that he hath a verie true body such as he shewed it vnto hys disciples hauyng fleshe bones and that it is not chaunged into spirite but doeth holde alwayes the properties of a verye true bodye suche as appertayneth vnto a verye and true glorified bodye whyche not wythstādynge it hath put of al humaine infirmities yet followeth it not for all that that it is in al places nor in diuers or manye places al at one tyme instante We oughte to beleue that he is in heauen sette vpon the ryghte hande of God hys father where as Act. vii saynte Stephan dyd see hym For to dispute and diffine what is thys heauen that ryght hande of God is here no neade but is more sure to putte it of and leaue oure disputation vnto the tyme we came there and maye se it by experience and that we maye vse suche diligence to folowe Iesus Christe in the tyme we be in thys lyfe that we may come thether and beholde hym Natha And if it be thus as thou sayest howe can we make it agree wyth that whyche the priestes make vs beleue that the body of Iesu Christ is in the hoste betwene theyr handes The corporal presence or in the pixkes euen as greate and large as he was vpō the crosse Phy. They whyche beleue that beleue not that he is sette vpon the ryghte hand of God And shall come frō thense to iudge the quicke and the dead Natha Wherefore not Maye he not as well come downe and goe vp by the vertue of the sacramentall wordes as he is goue vp Phy. To what purpose or what neade is it that he should come downe descend or ascende seing he fulfilled all by hys vertue and power If it were neadful that hys bodie should be presented vnto vs carnallye wherefore is not he taried wyth vs or wherefore is he not returned to be cōuersaunte as he was before with hys disciples wherefore did he saye vnto his disciples It is expediente for yo◠that I depart for excepte I depart that conforter shall not come If the corporal presēce he Iesu christ dyd wyth holde the hertes of the Apostles here in this lowe earth and dyd hyndre them to knowe hym spirituallye howe shoulde he haue wylled vs to sette oure spirites to seeke hym in almorsell of breade in the handes of a synner or in a pixce or boxe hathe he not sayed he woulde be prayed vnto of them whiche shoulde honoure and seeke hym in spirite and in trueth and that suche be the true honorers and howe shall wee honoure hym in spirite trueth if we goe aboute to seeke and honoure hym in visible and corruptible thynges and Ihon. iiii in houses made wyth the handes of menne and to muse vpon a morsell of breade or vpō a pyxe or boxe howe maye thys agree wyth that whyche Saynte Paule commaundeth vs sayinge If ye be rysen agayne wyth Iesus Christe seeke not the thynges whyche be Colo. iii. on the earth but those that be aboue wher Iesus Christe is vpon the ryght hande of God the father or wherefore do the priestes synge in theyr masses Sursum corda haue your hertes on hye and wherfore do the other answer We haue thē to God Why wyll they rote them here in thys lowe earth and holde them in the Imagination of corporall and carnall presence rather then to learne them to know Iesus Christe spirituallye makynge theim to fele the fruite of hys bitter death passiō For thys cause hath he instituted hys holye Institucion of the supper supper not for to make vs seke a corporal presence but for to represent hym self vnto vs by these visible sygnes for to learne vs by the same to go vp into heauen to hym for he wyl not that we drawe hym from heauen by wordes as coniurars and enchaunters but will drawe vs vnto hym self by hys holy spiritte and wylleth that oure hertes be lyfted by vnto hym and that we there be traunslated and traunsported by hys vertue to receiue repast nouryshmente of hys fleshe of hys bloud wherefore it is no neade that he shoulde descend or go vp for if he myght not communicate hys fleshe and hys bloude vnto vs other wyse then by hys corporall and carnall presence and wythout descendynge
vnto the infideles and hypocrites for they maye wel hold them selues for assured that theyr infidelitie hypocrisie shall be distroyed and theyr glory shal be turned into shame and confusion And in asmuche as we be coÌ„men thus far forth it doeth seme vnto me that these mattiers haue bene sufficientlye declared and al the misterie of our redemption after such sort that I hold my selfe verye well satisfied for my part and bicause I feare to make the werye wyth takynge ouer muche of the at once let vs here make a reste to an other tyme. Phylyp Thou canste not make me werye in suche mattiers yet neuertheles I am coÌ„tente to folowe thyne aduice Farewell Natha To God I commende the vnto whoÌ„ I praye to gyue vs suche grace that we maye at that greate daye of Iudgmente be found blameles and irreprehensible by the fauour merites of Iesus Christe Phy. So be it ⧠In these ii laste diologes is opened the other parte of the crede the which do concerne the holy Goste and the church wherein is declared that whyche appertayneth to the one and the other and is shewed what is the true churche of Iesu Christ what is hyr polesie ministration what goodes she receiued of him Nathanaell IN as muche as we haue done the greatest parte Phylype I shall desyre the to haue pacience and to take the paine to expound vnto me the reste that we maye se the end of thys mattier Phy. It is reason and I wyll not deuye the my payne seynge it bryngeth â—o lesse consolation vnto me then to the. Natha It semeth vnto me that there be yet two partes to be declared the one of the holye Goste and the other of the churche Phyly It is true but we maye well conioyne that of the holye Goste wyth that of the churche go forth as we haue begonne Natha It doeth folowe I beleue in the holye Beleue in the holy gost Goste it is no further neade that I shoulde aske howe thou vnderstandeste thys for by that thou haste alreadie declared vnto me the fayeth thou haste in the father and in the son I vnderstande wel thou confesseste that thou putteste all thy truste in the holye Gooste And that thou beleueste that by the same the father and the sonne doeth sanctifie the as by Iesus Christe thou art iustified by the vertu of the same holye spirite Phylype It is true Natha Notwythstandynge I vnderstande that yet woulde I verye gladlye thou wouldeste expounde me more largelye what thou vnderstandest properly by thys holy spirite Phy. The same vertue power mouynge and efficatie of God by the which the father and The holy gost the sonne worketh in vs nourisheth viuefieth as we haue all readye sayed in declaryng oure fayeth of the father and the sonne Natha In asmuche as thou beleueste in him thou holdeste hym for a God as wel as thou doeste the father the sonne Phy. Yea wythout doubte for I vnderstande not by thys anye maner of thyng out of god or besyde God but in God of hys propre substaunce Na. Wherefore callest thou hym spirite the father the sonne be they not also spirite seinge thou confesseste they be God that Iesus Christe doeth openlye testifie that Ihon. iiii God is a spirite the whyche muste be honored in spirite and trueth Phy. I deme not but God is a spirite and so by consequence the father the sonne but we must first considre The signification of the word spirite what is the signification of thys sayinge spirite and whether we speake of the essence and vnitie of God or of the distinctions which be in the same which the auncient fathers haue called the persones of the trinitie Natha And what is the propre signification of thys same vocable spirite Phy. I haue saied before that maÌ„ caÌ„ not find propre wordes as to speake of diuine thinges but muste borowe them of humayne thynges by similitude of the same declare the thynges celestiall and spirituall Natha I remeÌ„bre it well but tel me theÌ„ what is the natural significatioÌ„ of this same word and howe it agreeth wyth God Phy. Spirite signifieth properlie inspiration blowing wynd bycause ther is nothinge more subtille amonge corporall thynges nor that lesse can be perceiued by vewe or syghte theÌ„ the wind and the spirite it is ofteÌ„ tasteÌ„ in the scriptur for to signifie the things inuisible diuine Na. Therefore I thinke we call the soule vnderstaÌ„ding spirit not that it should be taken but for a wind but bicause it is inuisible sodaynd lyght as the wynd Phy. EueÌ„ so likewise God is called a spirite not that we shuld thinke that he were nothing eles but a wynde whych passeth but to make vs vnderstand that we ought not to Imagin that he shoulde be anye maner of thynge visible materiall or mortall but one nature essence perfecte inuisible incorruptible and immortall whyche wyll also be serued with the herte and theÌ„ soule of the spirite and vnderstandynge whyche be immortall not wyth ceremonies corruptible thinges Nathana Accordynge to thys signification the father the sonne and the holye Gooste be then al called spirite and all for one cause but expounde vnto me wherefore thou calleste more perticularlye the holye Gooste spirite then thou doest the father and the sonne Phy. WheÌ„ I behold the diuine esseÌ„ce vnitie of god I call them al spirites but when I coÌ„sidre the personal distinction of the whych we haue spoken here before I do then principally call the thyrde personne spirite bycause that worde doeth better open hys propertie then anye other we can fynde Thou muste also vnderstand that often tymes in the scripture The holie spirite for hys gyftes and graces Esai xi i. Cor. xii the holye Goste is taken not for the essence substaunce of hym selfe but also for hys giftes and graces Nath. Wherfore callest thou hym holye Phy. For to deserue hym from creatures and for to declare that I speake of that vertue power and mouynge of God whych is in God by the whych the father by his sonne Iesus doeth sanctifâ—e saue and vinifie vs. Nathana What callest thou holy Phy. A thynge pure and ferme seperated froÌ„ all corruption pollution and from all prophane carnal vsage a thing whole entier and inuiolate and all togyther dedicate vnto God I â—al theÌ„ the holy gost because he is such in dede and that by hym God in Iesu Christ sanctifieth maâ—ne that is to saye he purgeth maketh cleane consecrateth and dedicateth hym whollye to hym lelfe seperatynge hym from all vyle and prophane vsages to serue The christian sayutes onelye vnto hym Therfore also be the christians called sayntes because they be anoynted wyth that oyntemente and wythdrawen froÌ„ the seruitude of the deuyll coÌ„secrate by Iesus Christe for to serue the onelye God Natha I vnderstande nowe wherfore Iesus Christe dyd sende a greate
all that satisfied the churche whyche was offendyd by hym for notwythstandynge he hathe bene punishede in hys bodye or by hys purse or by boeth yet doeth it not for al that folow that he is an honest manne for in that he hathe bene punished hathe bene agaynste hys wyll and the payne that he hathe suffered hathe not for all that chaunged hys hert except the Lord with hys holye spirite haue touched hym therefore as the churche leueth vnto the punishmeÌ„t of the magistrate such as by him be punishable to be punished wyth such punishmente as they haue deserued wythout medelynge hyr selfe wyth the temporall swerde euen so ought the temporall magistrate not onely to suffer the church to procede in hyr office after he hath done hys but also to healpe hyr in the execution of hyr office if nead require as and if ther be any rebellioÌ„ against the same which requireth more greuouse punishment theÌ„ she maye gyue or put in execution for what other thynge is the ecclesiasticall councell or senate but a membre or parte of the magistrate and of them whyche partly be ordeyned by hym sauyng ther is an other maner of proceading for suche as haue bene moued to repentaunce but rather hardened by the punishmeÌ„te of the temporal swerde whych shal be conuerted by that whych shal be opened vnto theim of the worde of God for God hathe not coÌ„stituted the ministration of hys Gospel in his church wythout gyuynge hyr vertue and efficatie by hys holye spirite by the whych he doth strike the soules more lyuely theÌ„ the material swerd stryketh the bodye and further when a man hathe made suche amendes as he hathe bene ioyned vnto by the lawe theÌ„ is the ciuilitie of the lawe satisfied whyche forceth not muche wyth what herte it be done but the church requireth the testimonie of the herte and caÌ„not admitte them into hyr communion whyche be sclaunderous vnto hyr and whyche haue by the workes declared that they be no membres of hyr bodye excepte that fyrste she shall haue sene theyr repentaunce that they shall haue gyuen certayne sygnes and testimonies of the same for it is defended hyr to giue that Math. vii which is holy vnto Dogges and to caste hyr margarittes precious stones before swyne Natha But in asmuch as the churche is constitute of menne howe can she better iudge of the herte then the ciuyle magistrate and further what satisfaction wylte thou haue other theÌ„ that of Iesu Christ for thy self hath sayed that none othere can satisfie vnto the Iustice of God Phyly As towchynge the herte the churche leaueth it vnto the iudgmente of God which only knoweth it but yet neuertheles she hath more care theÌ„ the ciuyle magistrate can not admit nor receyue a manne into hyr coÌ„panie whyche at the leaste wyll not confesse wyth hys mouthe by the whyche he doeth testifie the christen herte that he hathe it may wel be that often tymes the herte doth not agre with the confession of the mouthe and that the coÌ„fession be fayned as it was in Simon Magus Ananias Saphyra but it sufficeth vnto the churche that a man shewe hyr outward testimonie of the herte for she can not iudge whether it be fained hypocriteth or faithful wherefore she can not caste out hym whyche commeth vnto hyr wyth anye testimonie of fayeth for if hys testimonie be fayned she leaueth the iudgmente vnto God whyche shall discouer it in hys time but to receyue any person wythout open testimonie of repeÌ„taunce faieth she caÌ„ not without doynge againste the word of god for wheÌ„ the dogs swine do opeÌ„lie shewe theÌ„ selfe such by theyr workes and be not couered with shepe skines why should she not iudg theÌ„ She hath none excuse nor resonable cause for to receiue theÌ„ seing that god hath giueÌ„ hir the iudgmeÌ„tes of such things that she hath the mean so to do therfor wheÌ„ a maÌ„ declareth hym self manifestlie sclaunderous a rebell vnto the ecclesiasticall correctioÌ„ discipline the last remedi that the church hath is to excoÌ„municate that is to saye to opeÌ„ vnto him that she taketh him not for any meÌ„bre of Christ nor worthi to be in the coÌ„pani of the faithful nor to coÌ„municate the Sacramentes whych Iesus Christ hath gyuen hir vnto the which ought none to be admitted but hir Math. xviii disciples but oughte to be reiected and depriued of them as a publican and a panim or as a Iewe or turke whyche the fayethfull wyll nor receyue into theyr communion but doeth hold him as an Apostata enemy of christiaÌ„ religioÌ„ wheÌ„ he is so reiected froÌ„ the church i. Corin. v. ii Corin. ii i. Timot. i. he is in the handes of Sathan for to afflicte him is seperated froÌ„ Iesu Christ after such sorte that if he do not reknowledge hys faultes amend him selfe and laboure to recoÌ„cyle hym selfe vnto the churche he is vtterly loste and dampned for in as muche as the churche hathe bounde hym he is bounde seynge that Iesus Christe hathe gyuen it that power by the ministration of hys worde by the whiche also he is vnbounde if he reknoweledge hys Math xvi xviii faultes be receyued agayne into the church by penaunce Natha The churche is then verye rigorouse and hathe a power muche moore to be feared then the swerd of the magistrate for it caÌ„ punish but the body but that of the church sleaeth the soules how doth this theÌ„ agre wyth that whyche Iesus Christe hathe sayed that he was not come for to destroye or lose but to saue is the church of anye other nature theÌ„ Luke ix Iesus Christ hir head Phyly No. But the euell do kyll and daâ—ne them selues in reiectynge the blissinge of Iesus Christe whyche is presented and offered vnto hym by his churche therfore the church doeth not dampne hym but onelye declareth vnto hym his daÌ„nation reiecteth him as daÌ„ned not to the intente that he should so be but to the inteÌ„t he should not be but he knowing hys damnation and seynge hym selfe depriued and shytte out of the companye of Iesus Christe of the Angels and of all sayntes and forsaken of all the fayethfull myghte be the more ashamed and confounded and the better feele the iudgemeÌ„te of God vpon hym to the ende that by thys meane he myghte he moued to repentaunce that he should not perishe eternallye for thys same oughte wel to astony hym seyng hym self bound by the churche whych hath suche power by the keyes which Iesus Christe hathe gyuen hyr that whatsoeuer Math. xvi xviii is bound or vnbouÌ„de in the earth by hyr is bouÌ„d or vnbounde in heauen Natha Then is the excommunication rather a medicine and a remedie then a death damnation Phylip. Accordynge as euerye man doeth vse it to hys profit for it is the last remedy of the churche the whyche she doeth vse as a corsey towardes synners that
should be moste miserable of all meÌ„ should reuerse al the euaÌ„gelical preachyng whych shoulde also be faulse â—ame if it were otherwyse Natha What vnderstandeste thou then by the resurrectioÌ„ of the flesh Phy. I vnderstaÌ„de that euerie one shall aryse trulie in hys propre body that the same bodye the same flesh which shal haue slepte shal haue bene corrupted and coÌ„sumed in the earth vnto powdre shal be fullie restored agayne coÌ„ioyned wyth his soule after she shall haue put of al infirmitie corruptioÌ„ for to be lyke vnto the glorious bodie of Iesus Natha How maye it be done that the bodye whyche Ihon. xix hath be turned into pondre earth should be restored into greater dignitie then euer iâ— was to be immortal Phi. We may not aske how that may be done which god hathe promised for that is most sure he that hath made maÌ„ of nothing is he not stronge inoughe to restore him againe we se euerie daye the experieÌ„ce of this in the corne wheÌ„ it is sowen it semeth to be loste doeth corrupt in the earth but after it coÌ„meth forth much fayrer and fruitful Nathanaell Then when a man is put in the earth accordynge to the ordinaunce of God he is sowen as the wheate in the earth and abideth the time ordeined of god at the which tyme he doeth aryse come forth of the earth is all togyther perfecte Phy. Euen so it is for as the wheate bicause of the sproute that he doeth beare doeth take agayne and is reuined euen so the fayethfull whyche dye and go to reste wyth the sproute of Iesus Christe whyche is the spirite of god is raised againe by the self same spirite which raysed vp Iesu Christe from the dead Nathanaell There ryseth none then but the true christians Phylyp All shall aryse both good and euyll Natha But in asmuche as the vnfaythful de parte not from thys worlde wyth the sproute or spryng of Christe howe be they partakers of his resurrection Phy. They are not partakers of hys resurrection seynge they ryse in condemnatioÌ„ for to go vnto the second death but as they be dead wyth the sproute of SathaÌ„ whiche is mortal euen so shal they aryse for to be punished eternally with hym Nath. Ther is theÌ„ a life eternal and a death eternal Phi. We must not doubt the one is comuneto the good the othere vnto the reproued and therefore do we conclude the articles of oure faith by the eternal lyfe whyche is the ende coÌ„suÌ„mation of al thynges Natha Dyd it not suffise to say I beleue the resurrectioÌ„ Wherfore put we to Of the flesh Or wherfore say we not aswel the resurrection of the bodye as of the fleshe Phy. We say fyrst The resurrection for to declare that the same selfe man whyche dyd fal by death shal arise and be raysed and to the ende that none should thynke that the resurrection shal be only of the soule wythout the bodye in the immortalitie of the same as the philosophers haue thought or that the same propre bodyes whiche we haue should not aryse agayne but should be chauÌ„ged into other or should be coÌ„uerted into spirite we do say notabli the resurrection of the flesh for to declare that the selfe same body and the selfe same flesh whych we haue borne frome the wombe of oure mother shall arise in glory in incorruption immortalitie Nathan And dyd it not suffice to confesse the resurrection of the flesh wythout put tynge to of the eternal life Is it not al one Phy. We declare by that that we do not rise for to dye agayne as they dyd whyche were raysed agayne miraculously by Iesu Christ by the Apostles and prophetes but shal arise into a lyfe farre differing froÌ„ this which shall be immortall and perdurable for euer for we shal be out of all miseries and shal be no more subiectes to pouertie hungre thyrste sickenes death sinne nor hell but shal be lyke vnto Math. xxii the Angels of God wyth the whyche we The fode of eternal lyfe shall raygne eternally Natha Thys shall be then a lyfe wythout eatyng or drinkynge Phy. No but the meat that we shall eate and the pleasures that we shall haue shall not be suche as Mahumite doeth promise to them that kepe hys lawes but al shall be sateled satisfied of the tre bread of life of the goodnes and glorye of God for of meates and other i. Cor. xv corruptible thinges there shal be no nede wheÌ„ the cause for the which we vse them shal be taken away that is to saye wheÌ„ that death shall be abolished and that oure corruption mortalitie shall be turned into incorruption immortalitie and that the laste enemye synne death Sathan and hell shall be ouerthroweÌ„ and that God shal be all in all Natha Seynge the euyl and reproued shall as well aryse as the fayethfull and that there is as well an eternall death for them as a life eternal for the faythfull Wherefore makeste thou no mention but of the one and speakeste no worde of the other Phy. Bycause the fayethfull haue nothynge adoe wyth the vnfayethful And therefore do we leaue aparte and do not touch in this sum of oure fayeth but that whyche serueth vnto the consolation of the elected for to shewe vnto theÌ„ the goodes that be gyuen theÌ„ of God Nathana In what maner may we vse thys article to oure profit Phylype It doth teach The soueraigne goodnes of man vs that whyche we haue all readye treated in the begynnynge of oure matter that is to say in what doeth lye the Soueraygne goodnes and the felisitie of manne wee maye well by thys knowe that we muste not seeke it in thys earth nor in thys presente lyfe and if we well vnderstande this we shall also knowe that al thys mortall lyfe is but a pilgrimage that we muste not seeke here anye permanente citie or dwelling nor to rote our hertes in these Hebr. xiii corruptible thynges but to seke an other and to repute oure selues as straungers in thys worlde accordynge to the exemple of the holye patriarkes Thys fayeth also teacheth vs not to be discoraged thoughe we fele our selues ouerwhelmed wyth so manye euiles in the meane time whyleste oure lyfe is as yet hydden in Iesus Christe and that we can not as yet fullye fele Colo. iii. the fruite nor the grace that God hathe done to vs in him and for to redres vs in hope and to susteyne and suffer by patience vnto suche tyme that Iesus Christe shal be reueiled from heauen and that we shall haue full reioysyng of the glorie and felicitie that wee abyde and looke for Nathanaell Thou haste so well satisfied me in all thinges that I can aske nor require any more but to gyue the thankes for the payne thou haste taken wyth me and yelde graces thankes vnto God whoe hathe doone vs so muche good To whom I praye that it wyll please hym so well to imprinte in oure hertes thys fayeth of the whyche we haue so muche spoken that it may haue efficatie in vs by charitie in suche sorte that the Image of Iesus Christe may be sene in vs to shyue And that by hym wee may come vnto the same soueraigne goodnes eternal beatitude vnto the which we be borne called Phylip. God giue vs that grace as I hope he wil do vnto whoÌ„ I also pray to haue the alwais in his keping Natha So be it of the FINIS Imprinted at London by Iohn Day and Wyllyam Seâ—es dwellynge in Sepulchres Parish at the signe of the Resurrection a litle aboue Holbourne Londuite Cum gratia priuilegio ad imprimendum solum