probabilitie be alleadged in fauour of reall Presence by Consubstantiation than for Transubstantiation Lastly The mysticall vnion betweene Christ and his members is ineffable and the manner incomprehensible and the Protestant Doctrine teaching a reall donation of the bodie and blood of Christ and a mysticall coniunction by the operation of the holy Ghost with the soules of faithfull Receiuers and that dead and corruptible creatures can be a meanes and instrument heereof is a great mysterie of godlinesse incredible to prophane persons and therefore the Primitiue Church which beleeued this Doctrine might iustly require that this Mysterie should not be manifested before Infidels and other infirme Christians vntill they were first instructed in the rudiments of Christianitie IESVIT Yea the Fathers did not feare to declare vnto Catechumens this Sacrament so farre as it was commemoratiue of Christ and his Passion as appeareth by the Treatises of Saint Augustine vpon Saint Iohn made before Catechumens out of which Treatises Protestants for their meere commemoratiue presence alleadge many Sentences to little purpose For he there explicates spirituall manducation by Faith and he excludes the grosse imagination of eating Christs bodie in his proper shape tearing it in pieces with the tooth but denies not yea rather insinuates another kind of spirituall manducation not onely by Faith but by reall sumption though to conceale the Mysterie from Catechumens he speakes not so clearely thereof Wherefore as the Palme tree the heauier the waight is that is laid vpon it the more it riseth vpwards as it were ioying in difficulties so a true Catholicke Christian feeling in the doctrine of Transubstantiation many seeming absurdities that presse carnall imagination to the ground groweth thereby more strong to beleeue it imbracing these difficulties as manifest signes that this doctrine was beleeued by the Primitiue Apostolicall Church On the other side Protestants finding the Presence of Christs body by Faith to be deuoyd of such difficulties may by the very lightnesse thereof suspect it is not the doctrine which the Fathers concealed from Jnfidells as more absurd to humane Imagination than any other mystery of Christian Religion ANSWER You obiect that the Fathers declared to Catechumens that is to Nouices in Christianitie a commemoratiue presence in the holy Eucharist but not a corporall presence by Transubstantiation and from hence you would inferre that the Fathers held two kinds of Presences of Christs body and bloud in the Eucharist the one soly spirituall by intellectuall apprehension the other corporall by reall sumption of Christs body into the mouth and stomacke of the receiuer and you pretend that S. Augustine was of this iudgement But you must remember that you are not now to deale with Aduersaries which will credite your bare words and proofes you haue none Therefore I answer First that the Fathers taught no other kind of Presence to them which were baptised and receiued the holy Eucharist than to Catechumens or vnbaptised Christians although they instructed the one sort more fully than the other Secondly S. Augustine teacheth not that Christs body is receiued inuisibly insensibly and according to the nature of a spirit by the mouth and stomacke of each Communicant but he teacheth onely two kinds of manducation in the Sacrament one both corporall and spirituall wherein the body of man receiueth the externall elements of Bread and Wine and the soule receiueth the true body and bloud of Christ by faith the other corporeall onely wherein the receiuer partaketh the outward signe and not the thing signified Panem Domini non panem Dominum the visible Sacrament of Christs body but not his very body and he affirmeth not vpon the sixt chapter of S. Iohn That a malicious sinner continuing such receiueth the very body and blood of Christ. Thirdly Protestants beleeue not onely a commemoratiue but also an exhibitiue presence of the thing signified together with the outward signe according to the manner formerly declared pag. 405. and this Presence is mysticall and such as may seeme incredible to vnbelceuers because of sundry difficulties repugnant to common sence to wit That Christs flesh by the vnspeakeable power of the holy Ghost should be after a sort incorporated into the soule and that corruptible and dead creatures should be eleuated and made effectuall instruments to apply and communicate Iesus Christ and the vertue of his death to faithfull Communicants IESVITS 2. Consideration This consideration is drawne from the qualitie of the difficulties obiected against this Mysterie which be such as a Christian in honour should neglect them For if it be the part of a prudent and intelligent man not to permit Imagination to preuaile against his Reason What a disgrace is it for a Christian that his faith should be conquered by these kind of difficulties For that the seeming absurdities of this misterie be not in respect of naturall Reason but meerely of Jmagination may hence appeare that some naturall truths be in a manner as difficile and incredible which will be seene if we compare the foure aboue mentioned difficulties with the difficulties some truths euident in nature haue ANSWER When difficulties obiected arise from experience of sence and principles of nature and there is no expresse or manifest word of God sufficient to mooue vs to beleeue the contrarie it is the part of each intelligent and prudent man rather to credite that which is apparent to sence and common reason than to beleeue Paradoxes vpon no true ground and reason IESVIT First we cannot imagine that the whole body of Christ can be contained in the compasse of a small Hoast But it is not more incredible that in a thing of small quantititie for example the wing of a Flye there should be so many parts as vnfolded and laid together would couer the whole face of the world both of heauen and earth And yet it is demonstrable in Philosophy That euen in the wing of a Flye there are so many parts as broad and long as the wing though still thinner and thinner that Almightie God separating and vnfolding them may therewith couer the whole world For certaine it is that some finite number of such parts so separated each of them as long and as broad as a Flyes wing would couer the face of the whole world certaine also it is That the wing of the Flye is still diuisible into more and more such parts so that no finite number is assignable but God may still separate from that wing a greater number without any end therefore it is certaine that in the wing of a Flye there is so much quantity as is sufficient to couer the face of the whole world both of heauen and earth if God would but separate and vnfold the same Is not this Secret of Philosophy as incredible to carnall Imagination as the being of Christs body within a small Hoast Wee that cannot comprehend things we see with eyes and feele with hands certainely we shall haue much adoe
S. August Enchirid. c. 5.6 c. Donatist Lib. 7. cap. 50. Wicked people may be called Gods House because of externall calling and visible profession 2. Tim. 2. 20. Sed non sunt de compage domus They are not of the frame of the House Heb. 3. 6. August d. Bapt. Lib. 7. cap. 50. All they which couet earthly things preferring worldly felicitie before God they which seeke their owne and not those things which are Iesus Christs ad vnam Ciuitatem illam pertinent quae dicitur Babylonia mystice habet Regem Diabolum belong onely to that Citie which in a mysterie is called Babylon and hath the Deuill the Head Aug. sup Psal. 61. Wicked persons saith S. Augustine Epist. 50. figuram membri tenent retaine the figure or outward shape of a member sed reuera corpus Domini non sunt but they are not in truth the bodie of Christ August d. Doct. Christ. Lib. 3. cap. 32. In corpore Christi non sunt quod est Ecclesia They are not in the bodie of Christ which is the Church August c. Crescon Lib. 2. cap. 21. But they which are not of the Body of Christ nor of the house of God really and in truth doe not constantly preserue or faithfully deliuer Apostolicall Traditions neither are they one or holy nor yet such as the Spirit of God infallibly and alwayes directeth in their publicke Doctrine OBSERVAT. V. The qualities of vnitie holinesse veritie Apostolicall succession and other the like are not alwayes found in the true Church equally or in the same degree and measure of perfection but according to a latitude and inequalitie of intension and remission and more or lesse so that although the sounder part of the Church hath alwayes the substance of truth sanctitie and vnitie yet this veritie of Doctrine vnitie of Charitie sanctitie of Manners is greater larger and more sincere and perfect in some persons and ages of the Church than in others These qualities were in their greatest perfection when the Apostles themselues liued they were in great measure in the ages immediately abutting vpon the Apostles But the holy Fathers complaine of the decrease and decay of them in after times And Papists deplore the extreme diminution of them in their dayes OBSERVAT. VI. It falleth out sometimes in the outward state of the visible Church that wicked persons which are not sound parts of Gods house nor liuing members of Christs mysticall bodie being more in number and greater in power doe possesse the chiefe places of publicke Iudicature and Ecclesiasticall gouernment and being thus exalted and withall abetted by worldly power and swarmes of time-feruers whom they aduance and honour to accomplish their owne ends it may heereby fall out that the outward state of the visible Church shall be ordered and swayed according to the lust and will of wicked rulers And then good men may be disgraced depressed and persecuted the simple and they which are negligent vnlearned and secure may be deluded and errour and superstition craftily and couertly be brought in and that is fulfilled which Gregory saith Dum mali praepositi suam contra veritatem honorem exigunt ab omni rectitudine corda sequentium abducunt When wicked rulers seeke their owne glory more than truth they misleade their followers from all course of righteousnesse This happened in the Iewish Church when the Scribes and Pharises and other hypocrites and errants were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 master-builders Math. 21.41 And the euill seruant beareth rule in the houshold and oppresseth his fellow-seruants Matth. 24. 49. Diotrophes excommunicates and vsurpes according to his owne will 3. Ep. Ioh. 9. 10. The Arrians in the dayes of Constantius and Valence did all the former in the greater part of the Christian world The same happened in the Church of Rome especially after the thousand yeere one man vsurped ouer the Christian world making himselfe on earth chiefe and sole commander ouer things diuine and humane his power was so exorbitant and boundlesse that he trode vpon the necke of kings throning and dethroning crowning and decrowning them as himselfe listed his dominion was so absolute and vast as that no man might reprooue or withstand him All men were reputed heretickes or schismatickes which would not say and sweare as he commanded in Synods and Councels causes were transacted according to his will and remission of sinnes and right to life eternall were intailed to his chaire IESVIT This principle is consequent vpon the former and out of it sixe things may be clearely prooued First that there is alwayes a true Church of Christ in the world for if there be no meanes for men to know that Scriptures and other substantiall Articles came from Christ and his Apostles and so consequently from God but the Tradition of the Church then there must needs be in all ages a Church receiuing and deliuering these Traditions else men in some ages since Christ should haue beene destitute of the ordinarie meanes of saluation because they had not meanes to know assuredly the substantiall Articles of Christianitie without assured faith whereof no man is saued ANSVVER By true Church we may vnderstand either an vniuersall maltitude of Beleeuers totally in respect of all persons or distributiuely in regard of them which principally rule and command free from errour in publicke doctrine Or else a choise and select number of Beleeuers liuing either in the common fellowship of the generall visible Church or vnited in particular Congregations by themselues teaching and professing right Faith in all capitall points and readie to imbrace all diuine Truth when the same is manifested vnto them If the name of true Church be taken in the first sense or for an Hierarchicall Church wherein the principall commanders teach and maintaine truth intirely and sincerely then the Proposition to wit There is alwayes a true Church of Christ in the world is denied for it is possible that the greater Prelates to wit Popes Cardinals mitred Bishops and Abbots of which the Hierarchicall Church principally consisteth shall bee reprobates blinde guides a generation of vipers wolues in sheepes cloathing and such as being armed with the title of the Church persecute the true Church And that this is possible it appeareth First by the example of the arch-rulers of the Iewish Church which in some ages corrupted true Religion and persecuted the seruants of God 2. Chron. 36. 14. Moreouer all the chiefe of the Priests and the people transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen and polluted the house of the Lord c. v. 16. They mocked the messengers of God and dospised his word and misused his Prophets c. Reade 2. Kings 16. 11 16. Ierem. 2.8 Esay 56.10 Malach. 2.8 Ierem. 20.1 23.1 2. Machab. 4.10 Ezek. 34.4 Mark 6.35 Math. 3.7 Matth. 23. 13. Luk. 12. 1. Matth.
vse no Image made of sensible matter but such onely as is perceiued by vnderstanding But if we consider the Pictures and Puppets which now a daies in most places our Romists make of the blessed Virgin we may wish that they had made only dead or confused pourtraitures And what Christian eyes if not bleared with the fogge of Superstition can with patience behold the dresses attires and various fashions wherin they 〈◊〉 present the B. Virgin yea many times like a Curtesane or after the lightestand most immodest fashions of the world What proportion or correspondence is there with the sampler in these prodigious formes IESVIT The office of an Jmage is to carrie the imagination of the beholders thereof directly and immediatly to the person imagined therein Jmagination of parts in the person represented answering vnto the parts seene in the Image which kind and vse of Images nature allowes vnto men to the end they may remember and more fully imagine persons absent and remooued from their corporall fight vpon whom they ought and haue great desire liuely and staidly to fix their imaginations and thoughts ANSWER Images of visible persons and creatures may leade the imagination of Beholders to the Person and Creature represented by them But Images of Christ and of the Trinitie and of the glorified Saints are deficient in their expression and representation and they may misleade the imagination and ingender a carnall conceit of those Persons and also hinder the spirituall knowledge and Faith which people ought to haue of them The Spirit of God which knoweth best what helpes are vsefull and necessarie to eleuate our mindes to spirituall Contemplation hath left vs his Gospell wherein Christ Iesus is depainted before the eyes of our soule Galathians 3. 1. And also the holy Sacraments which are visible signes and Seales of Grace but if painted and carued Images had beene such motiues and effectuall meanes to infuse godly memorie and heauenly desires into our hearts as 〈◊〉 pretend wee may be assured that our great Paraclete would haue expresly appointed and recommended the same in his Word so farre would hee haue beene from perpetuall defacing of Images and condemning the ordinarie vse of them in his Worship I answere therefore It may bee the Office or vse of some Images to wit of such as agree with the Prototype and which are permitted by the Word of God and are lawfully made and vsed to leade the imagination of the beholders to the remembrance of the person and thing imagined But if people presume beyond their modell and aduenture to delineate that in Pictures and Images which they know not and inuent a kinde of Teaching which was not learned in the Schoole of Christ their owne inuentions prooue snares and their Images beget vaine imaginations to say no worse of them IESVIT Hence ariseth the allowed Principle of Nature receiued by all Nations ciuill and barbarous Ita vt in eo to speake with Saint Augustine Nulla Doctorum paucitas nulla indoctorum turba dissentiat That the Image may and ought to stand for the Prototype and is by imagination to be taken as if it were the verie person and what wee outwardly doe to the Image is done by imagination vnto the person As when wee kisse the hands and feete of the Jmage in our imagination wee kisse the hands and feet of the Person inwardly imagined by his Image ANSWER It is no Axiome of Nature that euerie Artificiall Image deuised by man may and ought to stand for the Prototype and is by imagination to bee taken as if it were the very Person and what wee outwardly doe to the Image is done by imagination to the Person but onely of such Images as are lawfully appointed either by Ciuile or Diuine Ordinance to these ends The brasen Serpent was a Figure and Image of Christ and yet it did not in such sort stand for the Prototype as that outward Adoration and burning of Incense might lawfully be done vnto it In like sort the Paschall Lambe was a figure of Christ Ioh. 1. 29. cap. 19. 36. and yet no holy 〈◊〉 kissed or saluted or censed or bowed downe to the Paschall Lambe The Cherubins according to our Aduersaries Tenet were Images and yet they were neuer honoured or adored with kissing kneeling Incense or any other signe in speciall directed to them And if any man saith Vasques hold otherwise it is a conceit of his owne braine hauing no foundation It is not necessarie therefore according to the Law of Nature but at the furthest contingent to exhibite the same outward Actions of Honour Loue Reuerence and Obeysance to Figures and Images which belong to the Principall In ciuile Comportment it is lawfull and in some cases it is a matter of dutie to be vncouered and to vse reuerence in the Kings Chamber of Presence and before his Chaire of Estate when his Person is absent but these and the like Actions exceed not the bounds of ciuile Obseruance In the Church which is Gods house wee vncouer our heads and wee kneele and make Obeysance before the Altar or Communion Table not to the figure of the Temple or to the Table materially or formally considered but to Christ himselfe And when wee worship towards the East as the antient Christians did if there be a Crucifix painted in the Window for Ornament or Memorie wee direct no part of our Obeysance to that painted Image but to our blessed Sauiour who hath visited vs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Day or Easterne Light from on high Luc. 1. 78. And it is so farre from beeing vniuersally true that the Image is to be taken for the Prototype that in some cases wee may adore the one and deface and abolish the other as appeareth in the Brasen Serpent If saith Alphonsus Castro Christian people were in our dayes as prone to Idolatrie as the people of Israel then were and that they could not otherwise be reclaimed I should thinke that Images were to be broken in peeces The same is affirmed by Corduba and Tapia IESVIT This is the Axiome of Philosophie gathered out of Aristotle Idem est motus in imaginem exemplar For Motion proceeding from the bodie and from the mind what the bodie doth really and externally to the Image the mind doth imaginarily that is by conceit and affection to the person ANSVVER Principles of Nature containing themselues within their owne bounds are to be embraced but sacred and religious Actions are regulated by a Diuine and supernaturall Modell 1. Cor. 2. 5 6 9. c. The Word of God hath set a blacke marke vpon Images deuised by man when they are applyed to worship And therefore although in humane and ciuill vse the Image might in some sort stand for the Prototype and by imagination be taken and vsed as the person resembled by it yet in things religious and sacred it is otherwise When the
at the day of Judgement to iustifie our not beleeuing any part of Gods word by reason of the seeming absurditie thereof ANSWER You are not able to demonstrate that God will haue vs beleeue that the whole Organicall body of Christ hauing the stature quantitie and magnitude of a perfect mans body is contayned in the compasse of a small Hoast or in a crum of Bread for that Christ Iesus hath a true and perfect body differing in kind from a Spirit from an Angell and from an immateriall substance diuine reuelation teacheth but that the same indiuiduall and corporeall substance partaketh the spirituall manner of Angelicall existence and the diuine immensitie simplicitie and omnipresence as Bellarmine affirmeth is not reueiled vnto vs by the holy Ghost neither can the same be inferred ex Reuelatis from any plaine and euident truth which God hath reuealed Neither is it reuealed that the Abstracted formes and accidents of Bread and Wine subsist or are tasted and felt or nourish the body and are afterwards corrupted according to the manner of corporeall food hauing no substantiall or materiall nature in them Therefore this large tract wherein the Obiectour laboureth to prooue a possibilitie of the former by diuine miracle and omnipotencie is vnworthy our examination for we make no question of Gods omnipotent power in effecting whatsoeuer himselfe pleaseth as hath beene formerly answered Pag. 181. Yet the Fathers and Schoolemen very well teach vs That such things as implie a contradiction and falsitie are not the obiect of diuine power and they teach vs further that there is a twofold power in God Ordinata Absoluta one according to the order which himselfe hath fixed by his word and will the other according to the infinitenesse of his essence and which exceedeth his will Now according to the power of God measured and regulate by his word and will all things are impossible which God will not haue to be And thus we say that it is impossible that the whole body of Christ can be in one crumme of Bread or substantially present in many places at one instant and accidents cannot subsist or be tasted felt and nourish and be conuerted into the substance of mans body without a materiall subiect of inherencie to sustaine and giue force vnto them But on the contrarie we dispute not what God is able to effect by his absolute power neither is this question of any vse in the matter now in hand for the naturall kind of the things themselues created by God and the Doctrine of holy Scriprure teach vs what is the reuealed will of God but that hee changeth this Ordinance which himselfe hath fixed no Diuine Testimonie or Reuelation affirmeth or teacheth The sole pretext which Papals haue to palliate the absurdities pursuing Transubstantiation at the heeles are the words of Institution But there is nothing coactiue in the said words to prooue this Romish Article by the confession of the best learned Papists as I haue formerly prooued pag. 414. And besides many other Reasons This Argument out of our Sauiours words is most strong against Transubstantiation If nothing bee found in our Sauiours words This is my Bodie which prooueth the conuersion of the substance of bread into Christs bodie more than which is likewise found to change the quantitie and accidents then Popish Transubstantiation being onely a conuersion of substance and not of quantitie and accidents cannot be concluded out of our Sauiours words But nothing is found in our Sauiours words This is my Bodie c. proouing any more the conuersion of substance than of quantitie and accidents for our Sauiour tooke the whole bread both according to the substance and also according to the quantitie and accidents thereof into his hands and blessed and consecrated the same intirely with the like thankesgiuing and pronuntiation of words and performed all things to the one as well as to the other Therefore if our Sauiours words prooue Transubstantiation of the substance of Bread and Wine they must likewise prooue conuersion of the quantitie and accidents into Christs bodie and blood But by the confession of Papals they doe not the latter for the quantitie and accidents are not conuerted into Christs bodie and blood and consequently they doe not the former Now this being apparent the Popish Doctrine of Transubstantiation hath no foundation in our Sauiours words This is my bodie c. I supersede therefore to examine the Obiectors particular Arguments among which one is learnedly borrowed from the flies wing which according to Romish Phylosophie may be thinned extended and inlarged to make a case such perhaps as Base Viols haue to put the whole world into Euery punie in our Vniuersities can distinguish betweene Mathematicall or Potentiall diuision of a bodie and Physicall or Actuall Aristotle himselfe teaching vs that there is Minima caro though there be not Corpus minimum But this fictious Cosmotecture and case may well bee paraled to the Doctrine of Transubstantiation and they are twinnes the one as credible and infallible in Theologie as the other in Philosophie But if our Aduersarie would be pleased to respite vs from beleeuing Transubstantiation as an Article of our Creed vntill his vast words cap-case made of a flies wing bee finished hee shall finde vs more flexible and prone to credite his Romish Doctrine in this and other Articles IESVIT Secondly Wee cannot imagine the bodie of Christ to bee really combined vnto the consecrated formes and not to bee polluted by such indignities as may happen vnto the formes yet wee haue seene or may see things able to make this not to seeme incredible for holy men often by Prayer so purifie their soules and by contemplation bring their spirits to such an independencie of their sences that neither bitter meates offend their tastes nor loathsome sents their smell nor shrill cries their hearing yea burnings and torturings are not perceiued their spirit being eloyned through Diuine vnpolluted affection from the contagion of the bodie vnto the substance whereof it still remaines most really vnited This being so cannot the glorious bodie of Christ graced with most Diuine Ornaments flowing from the excessiue blisse of the soule made spirituall impassible and insearchable bee really present vnto the formes of consecrated bread and yet free immune and wholly independent of any contagion or corruption that may happen to those formes especially the bodie of Christ not being so strictly and substantially tied vnto the formes as the spirit is to the bodie it informeth but is present vnto them as an Angell assistant is to the bodie wherein he worketh What dishonour can it bee to attribute to Christs most venerable bodie this spirituall manner of Angelicall presence yea rather a participation of the Diuine Immensitie for as God by his incomprehensible Immensitie exists euery where no lesse pure in the sincke than in the Sunne no lesse sweete in the dunghill than in a Garden of odoriferous
in it selfe Js it iniury to his charitie to thinke that loue vnto men makes him vnite himselfe really and substantially with them and to be as it were incarnate anew in euery particular faithfull man entering really into their bodies to signifie efficatiously his inward coniunction by spirit vnto their soules Finally is it an iniury to his Wisedome to beleeue that to satisfie on the one side the will of his Father that would haue him euer in heauen sitting at his right hand on the other side the Ardencie of his owne affection vnto men desiring to be perpetually with them he inuented a manner how still remaining glorious in heauen he might also be continually on earth with his Church secretly not to take from them the merit of faith yet to afford full satisfaction to his owne loue really by continuing personall presence and most intime coniunction with them On the other side it imports them that thinke Transubstantiation impossible or that God cannot put the same body in different places at once to consider if they erre easie it is for men to erre that with the compasse of their vnderstandings measure the power of God how dangerous and vnexcusable their errour will prooue when they shall be called to giue vnto their omnipotent Maker a finall account particularly of this Doctrine so much derogating from him Let them thinke how they will answer if God lay to their charge the neglect of the most prudent and reasonable aduise which S. Chrys. giues Let vs beleeue God saith he let vs not reiect his Word though the same seeme secret and absurd vnto our cogitation and sense for his speech doth surpasse our reason and sense his words cannot deceiue vs but our senses be deceiued easily and often How will they reply if they be pressed with the Intergatory which S. Cyril makes vnto such misbeleeuers If thou couldst not comprehend the diuine operation of God Why didst thou not accuse the imbecility of mans wit rather than the omnipotencie of God Or how disputing or proposing so many arguments against Gods power reiecting or questioning the same because they could not vnderstand it they neuer called to mind the saying of S. Augustine Ecce quibus argumentis diuinae omnipotentiae humana contradicit infirmitas ANSWER This third and last consideration is a meere declamation grounded vpon a vaine supposition for it presumeth as granted the opinion of Transubstantiation to be most probable and reasonable as being declared by many antient Fathers defined by generall Councells c. But this supposition is a begging of the question for not so much as one antient Father or generall Councell did euer declare or define the same as it will plainely appeare to all iudicious Persons which shall compare and apply the sentences of Fathers and antient Councells to the Popish definition of Transubstantiation And the said Doctrine is not grounded vpon our Sauiours words and the miracles which Romists venditate to authorise the same are eyther Fryars fables or reports misapplyed and wrested to a contrary end And that there should be merit or at leastwise lesse perill in adhering to this doctrine rather than to any other may bee proclaimed ouer and ouer againe by Romists but it deserueth credit when they demonstrate That an opinion which is not grounded vpon diuine Reuelation and which containeth so many difficulties as cannot be solued and the beleefe whereof is vnnecessarie can be imbraced with safetie and expectation of reward To the words following in the Iesuit That he might also bee continually with his Church secretly it is answered That excluding Transubstantiation Christ Iesus is continually with his Church secretly by his grace spirit and mysticall vnion and he dwelleth in the hearts of iustified persons by faith Epkes 3. v. 17. S. Chrysostome S. Cyril and S. Augustine in the places obiected affirme that we are not to beleeue our dull and carnall sence when it suggesteth vnto vs that which is repugnant to faith and when it acknowledgeth no other force and operation in the holy Sacraments but that which is sensible and naturall But embracing this doctrine of the holy Fathers we cannot from thence extract the fancie of Transubstantiation Learned Papists themselues acknowledge the intricacies and difficulties of this Article many of them affirme that secluding the authoritie of the Romish Church there is nothing in diuine Reuelation compelling to beleeue it The doctrine is not Catholike or Antient The Propugners of it vntill the late Trident Councell disagree in that which is maine and substantiall in it and for auoiding one figure they make many Therefore it standeth not with Christian Wisedome to imbrace or maintaine this doctrine and Romists are more confident than prudent in imposing the same as an Article of the Creed censuring the Noncredents as hainous Heretikes My finall conclusion about this Article is That doctrine which is not expresly taught or formally deduced from holy Soripture which no antient Councell or Church for the first 600 yeares plainely taught and vnto which many aduerse passages are extant in the monuments of antiquitie also which is repugnant to sence and common reason and hath no apparent vtilitie ought not to be imposed as an article of diuine faith But such is the doctrine of Romish Transubstantiation Therefore it ought not to be imposed as an article of diuine faith and the Roman Church should either cancell this part of their new Creed or be lesse censorious in obtruding of it THE SEVENTH POINT COMMVNION VNDER ONE KIND AND THE ABBETTING OF IT BY CONCOMITANCIE IESVIT YOur most Excellent Maiestie in the Proposition of this Controuersie shewes your deepe insight into Theologicall difficulties perceiuing a maine ground whereon the Catholicke opinion of the lawfulnesse of Communion vnder one kinde standeth to wit Concomitancie which being granted Communion vnder one kind is iustified ANSVVER IF his Sacred MAIESTIE should yeeld you Concomitancie yet vpon that ground Communion in one kinde could not be iustified Neuerthelesse we denie both 〈◊〉 and Communion vnder one kinde IESVIT § 1. The Doctrine of Concomitancie prooued THe Doctrine of Concomitancie is that vnder the forme of bread not onely the bodie of Christ but also his precious blood and blessed soule are truely and really contained the bodie directly and by vertue of the words of Consecration the blood and the soule consequently for being contained within the bodie of Christ they must needs Concomitate that is follow the bodie in what place soeuer the same bee neither can any that acknowledges the reall Presence denie this Concomitancie without falling into many absurdities as I prooue by three Arguments ANSWER THe bodie of Christ is considered two wayes First According to the nature of a perfect liuing bodie secondly As it is represented and exhibited in the Sacrament If we consider it the first way the blood of Christ cannot properly be said to be
no Lye nor his Power any Inconstancie Because therefore Christ hath a true and perfect Bodie both in regard of substance and matter and also in respect of quantitie stature measure posture proportion c. and because euerie true humane bodie by the Ordinance of the Creator who hath formed and constituted the seuerall kinds and natures of things after a speciall manner is determined to one indiuiduall place at one instant and must also haue distinction and diuision of parts with a length latitude and thicknesse proportionall to the quantitie thereof Therefore except God himselfe had expressely reuealed and testified by his Word that the contrarie should be found in the humane bodie of Christ and that the same should haue one manner of corporall being in Heauen and another in the holy Eucharist at one and the same time a Christian cannot be compelled to beleeue this Doctrine as an Article of his Creed vpon the sole Voyce and Authoritie of the Laterane or Trident Councell Some learned Papists confesse ingeniously That secluding the Authoritie of the Church there is no written Word of God sufficient to enforce a Christian to receiue this Doctrine And moderne Pontificians are not able to confirme their present Tenet to wit That Christs humane bodie may be in many vbities or places at one time and that the whole bodie of Christ is circumscriptiuely in Heauen and according to the manner of a Spirit and of the Diuine nature it selfe without extension of parts in euerie crumme of the Sacramentall formes This Doctrine I say Papals are not able to confirme by the vnanimous Testimonie and Tradition of the antient Church Therefore because the same is grounded neither vpon Scripture nor Tradition they begge the question when they alleadge Gods omnipotent power for it must first of all and that vpon infallible Principles appeare That God will haue it thus before his omnipotencie be pleaded that he is able to make it thus But the Iesuites Sophisme whereby hee would intangle vs within the snares of fundamentall Errour when wee denie Christs bodily presence in many places at once proceedeth in this manner No bodie can be truely receiued in many places at once vnlesse the same be corporally present in many places at once The Bodie of Christ is truely receiued in many places at once to wit in euery place where the holy Eucharist is administred Ergo The Bodie of Christ is present in many places at once I answere The Maior Proposition is denyed for there is a twofold manner of true Presence and consequently of Receiuing one Naturall by the hand and mouth of the bodie Another Mysticall and Spirituall by the deliuerie of the holy Ghost and by the apprehension and action of the soule First The holy Ghost truely and verily reacheth and presenteth the Obiect which is Christs Bodie and Blood crucified and offered in Sacrifice for mans Redemption Secondly The reasonable soule being eleuated by a liuely and operatiue Faith apprehendeth and receiueth the former obiect as really verily and truely after a spirituall and supernaturall manner as the bodie receiueth any corporeall or sensible obiect after a naturall manner Iohn 1. 12. Ephes. 3. 17. Fulgentius saith Filium Dei vnicum per fidem recipiunt They receiue the onely Sonne of God by Faith Our Sauiour saith That holy Beleeuers receiue the Flesh and drinke the Blood of Christ Iohn 6. 50 53 54. Credendo by 〈◊〉 v. 35.47 Paschasius hath these words The flesh and blood of Christ c. are truely 〈◊〉 by Faith and vnderstanding It is not lawfull to eate Christ with teeth This Sacrament is truely his flesh and his blood which man eateth and drinketh spiritually 〈◊〉 saith Hold readie the mouth of thy Faith open the iawes of Hope stretchout the bowels of Loue and take the Bread of life which is the nourishment of the inward man Eusebius Emisenus When thou goest vp to the reuerend Altar to bee filled with spirituall meates by Faith behold honour and wonder at the sacred Bodie and Blood of thy God touch it with thy minde take it with the hand of thy heart and chiefly prouide that the inward man swallow the whole Saint Ambrose Comedat te cor meum panis Sancte panis viue panis munde veni in cor meum intra in animam meam Let mine heart eate thee oh holy Bread oh liuing Bread oh pure Bread come into my heart enter into my soule Saint Augustine There is another Bread which confirmeth the heart because it is the Bread of the heart And in another place Then is the Body and Blood of the Lord life to each man when that which is visibly taken in the Sacrament is in very truth spiritually eaten spiritually drunken Now from the former Testimonies it is manifest that the Bodie and Blood of Christ may truely and really bee eaten and receiued by operatiue Faith in the Sacrament And if it bee further obiected That spirituall eating and drinking of the Bodie and Blood of Christ may bee without the Sacrament I answere That the same is more effectually and perfectly accomplished in the Sacrament than out of the Sacrament because the holy Ghost directly and in speciall when the Sacrament is deliuered exhibiteth the Body and Blood of Christ as a pledge and testimonie of his particular loue towards euery worthie Receiuer and the liuely representation and commemoration of Christs death and Sacrifice by the mysticall signes and actions is an instrument of the Diuine Spirit to apply and communicate Christ crucified and to increase and confirme the Faith Charitie and pietie of Receiuers Lastly It is remarkeable that vntill the thousand yeeres and more after Christs Ascension Orthodoxall Christians beleeued that the Bodie and Blood of Christ were truely and really present and deliuered to worthie Receiuers in and by the holy Eucharist according to St. Pauls Doctrine 1. Cor. 10.16 And that the same must be spiritually receiued by Faith or else they profited nothing But the manner of Presence which some Modernes now obtrude by Consubstantiation or by Transubstantiation was not determined as an Article of Faith And to say nothing of Consubstantiation the defence whereof inuolueth them in many absurdities which vndertake for it it is apparant that Transubstantiation is a bastard plant and vpstart weed neuer planted by the heauenly Father but the same sprang vp in the declining state of the Church and it is perplexed and inuolued with so many absurdities and contradictions to Veritie formerly receiued that our Aduersarie was transported with partiall folly when he presumed to ranke the refusall of this new and prodigious Article among fundamentall Errours IESVIT EIghtly Their denying the Sacrament of Penance and Priestly Absolution the necessarie meanes for remission of finnes committed after Baptisme ANSVVER THe Obiector by Penance vnderstandeth not Repentance as it is a vertue for Protestants beleeue true
Apostles Creed is that societie of Beleeuers against which Hell gates preuaile not finally either by Heresie or mortall sinne But Hell gates preuaile against Popes and Popish Prelats by mortall sinne so farre as that they descend into the infernall lake Therefore the Roman Hierarchicall Church consisting principally of Popes and Popish Prelats is not the holy Catholicke Church in the Creed for that Church hath remission of sinnes and life eternall and passeth not into Hell Ioh. 10.28 August d. Doctr. Christ. li. 3. ca. 32. IESVIT The Church whereof Christ said Math. 28.20 I am alwaies with you to the consummation of the world is the Church of the Creed or the Church which to forsake is damnable For the Church wherewith Christ still abideth not according to corporall and visible presence but by his Spirit is the body of Christ whereof he is head into which he infuseth the life of Grace and consequently he that forsaketh this Church forsakes the body of Christ the head thereof and cannot liue by his Spirit but is in a dead and damnable estate as a member cut off and seperated from a liuing bodie as S. Augustine long ago noted The Catholicke Church is the bodie of Christ whereof he is head out of this bodie the holy Ghost quickeneth no man Now the Church whereof Christ said I am alwaies with you to the consummation of the world is not the Church inuisible of onely the Elect but a visible Church deriued by succession from the Apostles therefore hee that forsakes this Church deriued by succession from the Apostles forsakes the Church of the Creed the Catholicke Church the bodie of Christ and puts himselfe into a dead and damnable state and may haue all things besides Saluation and eternall Life as Fathers affirme whose testimonies in this behalfe are notable and famously knowne whereunto D. Field yeeldeth acknowledging One Holy Catholicke Church in which only the light of heauenly Truth is to be sought where only Grace Mercie remission of Sinnes and hope of eternall Happinesse are found ANSWER The Church whereof Christ said Math. 28.20 I am alwaies with you to the consummation of the world is the Church of the holy Apostles of Pastors and Beleeuers succeeding them in the same Faith and Religion and this is a principall part for the Catholicke Church in generall containes all Faithfull and iust persons from Abel c. of the Church in the Creed Secondly some part of the Catholicke Church of the Creed is alwaies visible in the world sometimes in an ampler sometimes in a smaller number of Professours Also the visibilitie thereof is at sometimes illustrious and notorious and at other times it is obscure according to the state of Persecution Thirdly to forsake the true Church in the maine and primarie Articles of Faith or by any wilfull infidelitie is damnable and all people which desire Saluation must actually if it be possible or Voto in case of necessitie conioine themselues to some part of the Orthodoxall Catholicke Church But our Sauiour promised to no one visible Sea or Church continuing after the Apostles by succession of Bishops absolute immunitie from all Errour and infallibilitie of Veritie but only presentiall assistance and protection of Grace sufficicient for the saluation of his people vpon condition to wit when the said Pastours taught and obserued that which he commanded and continued in the right vse of those meanes which he had deposed among them Ioh. 8.31 32. Rom. 11. 22. Read before in this Treatise pag. 94.99 The Testimonies of S. Augustine obiected by the Aduersarie which are That the Catholick Church is the body of Christ whereof he is head and that out of this bodie the holy Ghost quickeneth no man make altogether against himselfe for none are vitall members of Christs mysticall body but iust and holy persons And it is the same Fathers doctrine Impij non sunt reuera Corpus Christi wicked persons are not in deed and veritie Christs bodie And in another place In corpore Christi non sunt quod est Ecclesia quoniam non potest Christus habere membra damnata They are not in Christs bodie which is the Church because Christ cannot haue damnable members And Bernard saith Manifestum est non esse Caput Hypochritae Christum It is euident that Christ is not the head of an Hypochrite But the visible Rulers of the Popish Church haue many times bin as our Aduersaries themselues report not only Hypochrites but apparantly monstrous and damnable sinners therefore they are not the Catholicke Church out of which no Saluation can be had neither is perpetuall influence and assistance of Grace absolutely intailed vpon them Out of the former premises I argue thus Wolues Hipochrites and impious persons are not the holy Catholicke Church of the Creed out of which there is no Saluation Romish Prelats haue beene Wolues Hypocrites and impious men for they haue maintained false and superstitious Doctrine repugnant to the holy Scripture and aduerse to the Faith of the Primitiue Church which Protestants haue and are againe readie to demonstrate and they haue beene most notorious for all kind of abhominable vices as Romists themselues haue published to the World and they haue also most iniustly and tyranically persecuted and oppressed true beleeuers Ergo Romish Prelats are not the holy Catholicke Church of the Creed out of which there is no Saluation Argument 2. Out of the holy Catholicke Church of the Creed there is no Saluation Out of the fellowship of the Roman Church there hath beene and is Saluation Ergo The present Roman Church is not the holy Catholicke Church of the Creed And thus the Obiector hath gained nothing by accusing our Church of fundamentall error and his nine Accusations are prooued to be so many calumniations and we neither erre fundamentally in any maine Article nor yet pertinaciously or maliciously against any other Christian veritie For although whiles we liue in the world tenebras huius mortalitatis circumferimus as S. Augustine speaketh we carrie about vs in regard of our selues the darkenes of mortalitie tamen ad Scripturae lucernam ambulamus yet we studie carefully to walke according to the true light of holy Scripture and God hath hitherto so assisted vs that the euill eye of our Aduersaries is not able to discouer in our Doctrine any capitall Error neuerthelesse if vpon further inquisition they shall make it appeare by diuine testimonie or other sufficient proofe that we are deceiued in any matter of Faith small or great we will be as 〈◊〉 to reforme our selues as they are readie to accuse vs. And in all differences betweene them and vs we submit our selues to a free lawfull generall Councell to be tried by the rule of Gods word concerning which S. Augustine saith Extat authoritas diuinarum Scripturarum vndè mens nostra deuiare non debet nec relicto solidamento diuini
still sollicitous though secure of their owne as S. Cyprian writes ANSVVER The blessed Saints in Heauen can desire that only which is according to the will of God Math. 6. 10. But that it pleaseth God they shall desire to know and vnderstand all the particular actions and occurrents of people on earth or that they shall desire to know the honour which is done to them in the inferiour world must be beleeued as a matter of Faith when the Papals prooue it by diuine Reuelation And although according to S. Cyprian blessed Saints are sollicitous of the Saluation of the Chucrh militant yet it followeth not Ergo they heare the petitions of the liuing for a father dwelling in London which hath his sonne at Constantinople is sollicitous of his sonnes safetie and yet he vnderstandeth not all the particulars about him IESVIT Wherefore our Doctrine that Saints see our prayers being deliuered so constantly by the antient Fathers so conformable to the principles of Christian beleefe about the blessednesse of Saints so consonant vnto expresse passages of Scripture we may easily expect that vnto Protestants it would not be displeasing did they looke on it with vnpartiall eyes specially they hauing no Text of Scripture that may make so much shew of direct opposition against it ANSWER Your insinuations are coniecturall and at the best seemingly plausible but your disputation is weake wherefore we admire your confidence in a case so groundlesse and intreat you either to argue more soundly or else to be lesse vaineglorious in your conclusions IESVIT The place continually obiected out of the Prophet Esay Abraham knew vs not Israell was ignorant of vs thou O Lord art our Father thou our Redeemer hath this sence that Abraham and Iacob when they did liue vpon earth and carnally beget children did not know particularly their posterities and so could not beare them such particular affection whereas God can and doth distinctly see and know their necessities and prouides against them deliuering his children out of them And therefore he is the onely Father the onely Redeemer Abraham and Iacob not deseruing the name of Father in comparison with God What makes this against the Saints hearing our prayers ANSVVER We receiued our exposition of this place of Esay cap. 63.16 out of S. Augustine and I marueile why the Iesuit reiecteth the same and chuseth a worse because his owne party confesseth that Abraham and the Patriarkes liuing in the darke lake of Limbus did not heare the prayers of their posteritie nor behold and vnderstand the affaires of their children liuing vpon earth IESVIT §. 3. The worship of Spirit and Truth with outward prostration of the bodie due vnto Saints THe third cause of their dislike is That we giue the honor of the Creator vnto the creature honoring Saints with religious worship with worship of Spirit and Truth euen to the prostrating of our bodies before them whereby we giue them honor due to God only and bring in many Gods as the Heathens do To this Obiection made long ago by Faustus the Manichee S. Austine answereth in these words The Christian people doth celebrate with religious solemnitie the memories of Martyrs to the end to stirre vp themselues to their imitation and that they may be assisted with their prayers and associated vnto their merits c. but with the worship tearmed in Greeke Latria and which the Latine language cannot expresse in one word being a certaine subiection and seruitude due properly to the Deitie only wee do not honour any but onely God nor thinke that this honour ought to be giuen but only to him These words of S. Augustine shew the worship of Saints to be on the one side more than ciuile and on the other side lesse than diuine more than ciuile as proceeding out of acknowledgement of the excellencie Saints haue superior vnto all naturall by which they be partakers of diuine perfection in that high degree as no substance can by natureparticipate therof and therfore S. Austine with good reason tearmes it religious Lesse than diuine as proceeding from persuasion of excellency though superhumane yet infinitely inferiour vnto the increate and immence excellencie of God yea depending essentially thereof So that honor is giuen them dependently of God as being superexcellent participants of his perfection and his singular friends ANSVVER Our Argument is All religious worship is due to God onely Papists yeeld to Saints some religious worship Ergo Papists yeeld to Saints some worship due to God onely The Iesuit pretendeth to answere by distinction out of St. Augustine saying That religious worship is either simply Diuine and founded vpon infinite and increate excellencie called Latria or else superhumane founded vpon Grace and Glorie which is an excellencie finite and created Papists yeeld the latter kinde of religious worship to blessed Saints and Angels but not the former To this Answere Protestants replie saying That there are no other kindes of worship than there be Tables of the Morall Law But there are onely two Tables of the Morall Law the former whereof teacheth Diuine Worship and the second humane ciuile or of speciall obseruance And if there be a mixt worship partly Diuine and partly humane so much thereof as is Diuine is proper to God and may not be imparted to any Creature Esay 42.8 But against this they obiect That to euery kinde and degree of excellencie there is a worship due proportionall to that excellencie But blessed Saints and Angels haue a speciall kinde and degree of excellencie superiour to theirs which liue vpon earth Therefore a speciall honour proportioned to their excellencie and superiour to humane is due vnto them It is answered That granting in blessed Saints and Angels an excellencie of Grace and Glorie and Honour due in respect of the same this prooueth not that they are to bee adored with religious worship for then holy persons vpon earth may bee worshipped with religious worship But the vertue of Religion according to the Tenet of the Schoole respecteth immedately increated excellencie and Latria and Religion are all one and if Saints and Angels may be worshipped with religious worship they may bee serued with the worship of Latria And if they answer that worship of Saints is a materiall action of religion this answer is confuted by the schoolemen themselues who also affirme that the worship of Saints c. is an act of Dulia and not of Religion or Latria The place obiected out of S. Augustin c. Faust. Manich. li. 20. c. 2 1 is made to speake that by the Aduersarie which the holy father intendeth not for he tearmeth not the honour exhibited by the true Church to the persons of Martyrs religious but he saith onely Populus Christianus memorias martyrum religiosa solemnitate concelebrat Christian people celebrate the memorials of Martyrs with religious solemnitie And then expounding himselfe in the progresse of the chapter
Sacrifices were offered to God onely Exod 22.20 Iud. 13.16.2 Chron. 34.25 so likewise oblations and vowes Deut. 23.21 Leuit. 24.5.6 and as the Lord condemned people of Idolatrie for sacrificing to creatures so the Israelites are reprooued for burning incense to the brasen Serpent 2. Kings 18.4 and to the queene of heauen Ierem. 44.25 This law in respect of the substance is morall and consequently obligeth Christian people as well in case of Oblations as of Sacrifices Now by what authoritie and right the Roman Church can abrogate this law in whole or in part and appropriating Sacrifices to God make prayer vowes Incense and oblations common to God and Saints our aduersaries haue not as yet made remonstrance and the Iesuit in this place alleadgeth no diuine authoritie to giue his Maiestie satisfaction but produceth onely an historicall narration out of S. Augustine and 〈◊〉 who report certaine miracles wrought by God Almightie at the Sepulchres of Martyrs IESVIT I answer if any Catholike should offer to the blessed mother of God by way of sacrifice any the least thing he were seuerely to be rebuked and better instructed for sacrifice is a religious homage due to God onely in which respect the sacrifice of the holy Eucharist is neuer offered vnto any but vnto God in memorie and honour of Saints herein the Collyridians women Priests did erre who did sacrifice a wafer cake vnto the blessed Virgin which kind of worship vnder the title of adoration S. Epiphanius reprooues allowing the Catholike worship as thereby tearming her honourable not for humane or ciuill but for diuine and supernaturall respects True it is that in Catholike countryes people offer vnto Saints lights flowers and cheynes not as sacrifices but as ornaments to set foorth their tombes and shrines wherein they doe not dissent from antiquitie nor from Gods holy will who hath confirmed such deuotions by miracle as diuers Authours worthy of all credit relate particularly S. Augustine by Protestants allowed as the most faithfull witnesse of antiquitie He tells that a woman starke blind recouered her sight by laying to her eyes flowers which had touched the shrine wherein were carried about the Relikes of the most glorious Martyr S. Stephan A more wonderfull example in the same kind he relateth done vpon an old man of good note who being sicke and readie to die did yet very obstinately refuse to beleeue in Christ and leaue his Idolatrie although he was very earnestly mooued thereunto by his children that were zealous Christians His son in law despairing to preuaile by persuasion resolued to goe and pray at the tombe of S. Stephan and hauing performed his deuotions with burning affection with many groanes and 〈◊〉 being to depart tooke with him some flowers that were on the shrine and laid them secretly vnder his father in law his head the night as he went to sleepe Behold the next morning the old man awaking outof his sleepe cryeth out desiring them to come to call the Bishop to baptise him He had his desire he was baptised afterwards as long as he liued he had this prayer in his mouth Lord Iesu receiue my spirit being altogether ignorant that that prayer was the last speech of S. Stephan when he was stoned to death by the Iewes which also were the last words of this happy old man for not long after pronouncing these words be gaue vp his soule Other oblations also Catholikes vse to offer vnto Saints not as sacrifices but as memories and monuments of benefits receiued as pictures of limmes by Saints prayers miraculously cured that therein they doe not deflect from antient Christian deuotion and that the Christian Church in her best times vsed vniuersally to make such oblations Theodoret is a sufficient witnesse who writing against the Gentiles alleadgeth as a manifest signe of Christs Godhead and omnipotencie that Idols being excluded he brought in Martyrs to be honoured in their roome not superstitiously as Gods but Religiously as diuine men inuocating and beseeching them to be Intercessours for them vnto God And those that piously and faithfully pray obtaine what they desire as testifie the oblations which they being therevnto bound by their vowes present in the Chappels of the Saints as tokens of health recouered for some hang vp images of eyes others of eares others of hands some made of gold some of siluer Thus he So generall and so notorious euen vnto Infidells was this Christian deuotion ANSWER Touching the Collyridians I answer that notwithstanding there is some difference in the materiall act betweene Romists and them yet because Epiphanius condemneth not onely externall sacrifice but all Oblation to the blessed virgin and alloweth onely that honour and not adoration shal be yeelded vnto her therefore Prayers incense-offerings and presents to Saints deceased were held vnlawfull in this Fathers dayes Secondly Saint Augustine de Ciuit. Dei l. 22. c. 8. doth not mention any Prayers Oblations Vowes or donatiues offered to Saints and Martyrs but he reporteth what miraculous cures were performed at the toombes of some Martyrs now because these things were extraordinarie and the credit of diuers of them dependeth vpon fame which is many times vncertaine and St. Augustine himselfe saith They are not commended vnto vs by such waightie authoritie as that without all doubt they must needs be credited they cannot be sufficient grounds or foundations of Catholicke Doctrine or Practise Thirdly Theoderit d. cur Graec. Affect lib. 8. saith Wee Oh Grecians neither offer sacrifice to Martirs nor drinke offerings but honour them as holy men and as the friends of God And whereas he further saith That some hang vp the shapes of eyes others of eares c. he meaneth that these were monuments of miraculous cures wrought in those dayes extraordinarily by God at the Sepulchres of Martyrs but he affirmeth not that they were oblations offered to Martyrs And yet the particular practise of some people in those dayes whatsoeuer it was if it haue not ground in Diuine Reuelation cannot raise an Article of Faith or necessarie dutie IESVIT § 8. The Romane Church set formes of Prayer without cause misliked FInally Protestants dislike the circumstance of praying in a set forme vnto Saints and that we appoint a particular office to the blessed Virgin Mary which cannot be proued to haue been vsed in the Primatiue Church ANSVVER THe Romish set formes of Prayers to the Virgin Marie and other Saints deceased are iustly condemned by vs not meerely because they are exercised in a set forme which is accidentall but in respect of the matter and substance of them neither can our Aduersaries demonstrate that such Prayers either in a set forme or by sudden inspiration were vsed in the Primatiue Church for the holy Apostles which are the prime Fathers and founders of that Church prescribed and practised no other forme of Prayer than such as was consonant to their Scriptures and the Churches which
euerlasting life Ioh. 6.49.50 51.54.56 Seauenthly if our Sauiours words were literall regular and plaine as Papists pretend then they themselues could not bee distracted and diuided about the sence thereof But they are notoriously diuided First Some of them say that the Pronoune This signifieth nothing Others say it signifies the Bread Alex. Hales Hocest corpus meum sensus est signatum hoc signo quod est panis transubstantiandus in corpus meum est corpus meum that is The sence of these words This is my body is the Bread presently to bee transubstantiate into my body is my body Some say it signifieth the Accidents and formes of Bread others it signifieth the body of Christ. Some say it signifieth confusedly that which is contayned vnder the formes And euery of these opinions hath sundry crookes windings and limitations Secondly Touching the Verbe substantiue est is some expound it by continetur vnder these formes my bodie is contained Others expound it by Erit This shall be my bodie when the sentence is ended Some say it signifieth Transmutatur It is changed and conuerted Thirdly Touching the words Corpus meum my Bodie Some say it is Materia prima The first matter of Christs Bodie Others The materiate Bodie with the reasonable soule Others A Bodie organicall without reference to being a liuing Bodie or a dead Others A liuing Bodie Some say it is a Bodie without quantitie dimensions or parts Others A Bodie hauing quantitie without extension figure order of parts Others A bodie hauing quantitie without extrinsecall reference to place an immateriall Bodie like vnto Angels and Spirits and they resemble the same by the Image of mans face reflecting in a glasse A Bodie hauing the stature of a man and yet contained in euerie crumme of bread Thus whiles Romists denie that there is a figure in our Sauiours words they fall into innumerable absurdities in stead of the true and perfect bodie of Christ crucified for vs and communicated in the holy Eucharist they reach vs a fantasticall bodie and a very vaine shadow and Image of Christs reall bodie But the Aduersarie to make the contrarie Tenet appeare Catholicke affirmeth That the antient Church expresly denied our Sauiours words to be figuratiue and in his Margen he pointeth out certaine Authours Euthymius Theophilact Damascene c. I answere although these Authours being none of them antient but post nati affirme that Christ in the holy Eucharist deliuereth not onely a figure of his bodie but his true bodie which is also our Tenet yet they say not that there is no trope or figure in our Sauiours words Theophylacts words are Non tantum figura exemplar est corporis Christi c. It is not onely a figure or similitude of Christs bodie Euthymius Esaias beheld a fierie coale the coale was not simply or onely wood but fierie wood such is this fierie coale in this great Mysterie Secondly It is to be obserued that these Authours teaching that bread and wine are Sacramentally or mystically conuerted doe also maintaine that the said Elements remaine in their materiall substance and that Christs bodie and blood are receiued into the spirituall powers of the soule and they say farther That Christ changeth the worthie Receiuers into his Bodie IESVIT As for some places of Fathers brought to the contrarie how they are to be vnderstood your Maiestie is not ignorant Saint Augustine saying That Christ gaue to his Disciples a figure of his Bodie and Blood spoke not of a bare emptie figure but of the figure of a thing really present as likewise in another place when he saith Christ affirmed it was his Bodie when he gaue a signe of his Bodie though there he may seeme to speake in the opinion of the Manichees who held That Christ had not true flesh but a meere figure shape and shaddow of flesh against whom in that place he vndertakes to prooue That the figure of a thing may bee tearmed the thing it selfe Argumento ad hominem that Christ said This is my Bodie when hee gaue but a figure of his Bodie to wit as you thinke Tertullian hath this speech Christ taking bread into his hands and distributing it to his Disciples made the same his Body saying Hoc est corpus meum id est figura corporis mei where figura corporis mei is referred not vnto corpus meum as an explication thereof but vnto hoc in this maner hoc id est figura corporis mei est corpus meum This to bee Tertullians meaning appeares by the drift of his discourse in that place for Tertullian is to shew that whereas in the Old Testament Bread was afigure of the Bodie of Christ as appeares by the words of the Prophet Mittamus lignum in panem eius id est crucem in corpus eius Christ in the New Testament made this figure to be truely and really his Bodie taking Bread into his hands saying this that is This figure of my Bodie is my Bodie as if he said Bread which antiently was a figure of my Bodie I doe now make to be truely and really my Bodie and this is an vsuall phrase in Tertullian who not to interrupt the sentence of holy Scripture addeth his explication of the subiect not presently but after the Attribute as when he said Christus mortuus est id est vnctus the sence whereof is Christus id est vnctus mortuus est ANSWER Many of the Fathers treating of the Sacramentall signes call them Figures Representations Similitudes Memorials Antitipes c. of the Bodie and Blood of Christ. But that which is a figure similitude and representation of a thing is not properly the same Saint Augustine It is a figuratiue speech commanding vs to be partakers of the Lords Passion and sweetly and profitably to keepe in minde that his flesh was crucified and wounded for vs. The Lord did not sticke to say This is my bodie when hee gaue the signe of his bodie Origen This I speake of the typicall and figuratiue bodie Saint Ambrose Which is the figure of the bodie and blood of the Lord Iesus Saint Chrysostome In the sanctified vessell there is not the true bodie of Christ but a mysterie of his bodie is there contained Gratians Glosse The Diuine bread which representeth the flesh of Christ is called The bodie of Christ but improperly Beda Substituting his flesh and blood in the figure of bread and wine Druthmarus The blood of Christ is aptly figured thereby Bertram Bread and Wine is figuratiuely the Bodie and Blood of Christ. And Tertullian more antient than any of these saith That Bread representeth the Bodie of Christ And he saith in two places That it is a figure of Christs Bodie The Iesuit in his answer to these plaine testimonies taketh notice onely of S.
for euer S. Chrysostome This Bread filleth the mind and not the belly this is our Bread and the Bread of Angels Thirdly Whereas some of the Fathers say That the bodie of Christ is receiued into the mouth they vnderstand by the bodie of Christ the Sacrament or outward signe of his bodie as appeareth not onely by their owne Exposition where they call the outward signe a figure of Christs bodie but also because they say the bodie of Christ is visibly eaten and his bloud is visibly drunke Also they affirme That the bodie of Christ is spirituall food and passeth not into the bodie but into the soule IESVIT Wherefore seeing we must of necessitie grant as I haue prooued That some part of the Bodie of Christ is vnder consecrated Bread penetrating the same and occupying the same place with it Why should wee doubt to beleeue the whole Bodie of Christ to be wholly and totally in euery consecrated Hoast ANSVVER The Question is Whether the whole Bodie of Christ is entirely and totally in euerie consecrated Hoast that is Whether the true and substantiall Bodie of Christ which is an humane bodie essentially and in kind differing from a Spirit and hauing magnitude proportion order and distinction of parts is contained vnder euerie small crumme of consecrated Bread The Iesuit propugneth this Paradox in manner following IESVIT For if we can beleeue that two bodies bee in the same place at once we may as easily beleeue the same of twentie And if we grant that one part of Christs body doth penetrate that is occupy the same roome with the quantitie of Bread Why should we not thinke that the rest of his parts may also doe the like Our Sauiour saith That it is as easie for a Cammell to passe through a needles eye as for a rich man to enter into the kingdome of heauen adding Though these things be impossible to men yet all is possible vnto God If then God can put a whole Cammell in the eye of a needle is he not able to put the whole body of Christ within the bignesse of a consecrated Hoast The body being mortall and passible could penetrate the body of his Mother and come out of her wombe through the same still remaining entyre as we professe in the Creede to beleeue Natum de Maria Virgine Why then may not the same body being now glorious immortall and as the Apostle speakes spirituall penetrate the quantitie of the Bread and inclose it selfe wholy and intirely within the small compasse thereof and Christ that made heauie things not to weigh as the body of Peter walking on the water coloured things not to be seene as his owne person which he so oft made inuisible to the Iewes bright things not to shine as his body after his Resurrection more bright than the Sunne did not shine in so many apparitions to his Disciples finally a flaming furnance not to burne the bodies of the three children cast into the midst thereof Why may not hee keepe a body from occupying a place or from extruding another bodie from the place where it is for to occupie a place or to extrude thence another body is but an effect consequent and flowing from the nature of a quantitatiue substance as to weigh to be seene to shine to burne be the naturall and necessarie effects of heauie coloured bright and fierie things ANSVVER We must beleeue whatsoeuer God hath reuealed But God hath reuealed that Christ hath a true body and all proprieties and attributes essentiall to a true body Heb. 2.16 Luc. 24. 39. And therefore the Romish doctrine which conuerteth the indiuiduall and finite body of Christ into a Spirit and fancie and destroyeth the true properties of the same affirming that is not circumscript palpable or situated in one particular place at once is erroneous neither can that be one and the same indiuiduall body betweene which are interposed many bodyes but betweene the one indiuiduall body of Christ in heauen and the same body in the Eucharist many other bodies to wit the seuerall bodies of the Heauens the Ayre the Pixe c. are interposed and the body of Christ in heauen is not ioyned to the sacramentall body by continuation or indiuision But it is obiected a whole Cammell may bee in the eye of a needle Math. 19. 24. 26. The passible body of Christ passed through the Virgins wombe the same being closed and not opened Peters heauie body walked aboue the waters the bodyes of the three young men continued in the fierie ouen vnconsumed or scorched Christs body was diuers times inuisible and once it was resplendent as the Sunne c. Therefore the now glorified body of Christ by the omnipotent power of God may be separate from circumscription length and thicknesse and other effects and properties of indiuiduall humane bodies It is answered the examples mentioned in the Antecedent are set vpon the Racke for our Sauiour affirmeth not that a Cammell continuing in his ordinarie quantitie can passe through the eye of a small needle but he saith onely that this may as easily be fulfilled as a rich man which maketh Mammon his God may enter into the kingdome of heauen Prouerbiall speeches Parables and suppositions are not according to euery passage in them to be strayned or expounded literally Luc. 17.6 Math. 7.3 If it be further said it followeth in the Text All things are possible with God Math. 19. 26. Marc. 10. 27. Luc. 18.27 Our Answere is First these words are referred to the latter part of Christs speech touching the rich mans entrance into heauen and not to the Cammels passing thorow the needles eye Secondly all things agreeable to truth and which God will haue done are possible but that it is agreeable with Truth for a Cammell retaining his quantitie with the whole bodie to passe thorow the eye of a needle or that God will haue this to bee or that it is his will that the bodie of Christ shall bee separated from circumscription and continencie of place deserueth to be credited when the Aduersaries prooue it by Diuine Reuelation or by other demonstration Secondly The Scripture affirmeth not nor yet the Apostles Creed that the blessed Virgin in 〈◊〉 trauell in Puerperio bare Christ in a different manner from other women Luk. 2.23 and what a sophisticall inference is this the Creed hath Borne of the Virgin Marie meaning according to conception generation and clearenesse from the companie of man Ergo the bodie of the blessed Virgin was not opened at the time of Christs birth Also many Fathers and some Schoolemen denie this and therefore from an Antecedent doubtfull and in question a consequent or conclusion of Faith cannot be inferred Thidly The example of Peter Math. 14. 29. and the three yong men Daniel 3. prooue not the question for the miracle might be in the water and in the fire and not
flowers So the bodie of Christ by supernaturall participation of his Diuine Presence is really vpon earth in things visible inuisible in things hurtfull impassible in things noysome inuiolable in things impure immaculable to his friends that receiue him with loue most sweet and comfortable and ouerflowing in Graces but to the vnworthie present in a manner dead and sencelesse as if hee were not there at all And as hee that receiues into his armes a bodie wherein the spirit absorpt in contemplation neither feeling nor felt lyeth inclosed may bee said to imbrace the bodie without the spirit which is in that bodie insensible and as good as if it were not there so they that receiue vnworthily are sometimes said by the Fathers to receiue the Sacrament without the bodie of Christ because though the bodie of Christ bee really in the Sacrament they receiue yet hee is there in a dead manner in regard of them as if hee were not there at all because hee stirres not vp heauenly actions in them nor makes them feele the workings of his grace and loue in their sences ANSWER The glorified bodie of Christ being impassible cannot bee polluted or corrupted because although it retaineth the same essentiall forme figure and substance yet it is deliuered from all terrene staines and frailtie and conuerted into caelestiall puritie and stabilitie And as this bodie cannot be polluted so likewise it cannot be masticated or ground with mens teeth as a Roman Synod vnder Pope Nicholas compelled Berengarius to confesse But from impassibilitie to omnipresence and immensitie it followeth not for impassibilitie is an affection of finite creatures but omnipresence and immensitie are diuine and in communicable properties And although in an extasie there is alienation and independencie of the spirit vpon the sences yet this argueth not that Christs humane bodie is substantially and insensiblie in the consecrated creatures of Bread and Wine or according to the manner of Angelicall presence or rather a participation of diuine immensitie as the Iesuit compelled to turne vbiquitarie speaketh or without bodilie stature posture and dimensions Lastly the Obiector saith that wicked persons receiue into their bodilie mouthes and stomach the substance of Christs flesh He prooueth not this assertion but bringeth only a similitude taken from the spirit of man in an extasie and pretendeth that the Fathers did therefore affirme wicked persons to receiue the outward Sacrament without the bodie of Christ because Christ in regard of them is in the Sacrament after a dead manner But S. Augustine and other Fathers speake not figuratiuely or by similitude but literally and expressely saying Non manducant illam carnem wicked persons doe not eat that flesh The thing it selfe to wit the bodie of Christ whereof this Bread is a Sacrament is receiued of euerie man which eateth it to life and by no man to death IESVIT Thirdly We cannot imagine the same bodie can bee in many places together at the same time Jt is true but as hardly can we imagine the soule to be in the head and in the feet of a man one and the same without diui sion in it selfe or an Angell to bee in two townes of the countrie whereof he is president as distant one from the other as Yorke and London Also who can conceiue God who is infinitly one and indiuisible to be both in heauen and on earth at once What marueile then that imagination failes vs to apprehend the multiplyed presence of Christs bodie in the Sacrament which is Spirituall Angelicall Supernaturall comparable with the diuine that S. Gregorie Nissen stickes not to say Sicut Diuinitas replet mundum tamen vna est ita innumerabilibus locis offertur tamen vnum corpus est The bodie of Christ being glorious is for operation as swift and agill as any thought but a mans thought is so quicke that one may be by thought in two disjoined places at once for example in London and at Rome Some Diuines giue such agilitie to Angels that they can place themselues substantially where they please by a thought and thinke that as their thoughts so like wise their substances are so independent of corporall space that they can be naturally in two distinct places without being in the spaces interiacent But the agilitie of Christs glorious bodie is more excellent and perfect as being supernaturall than the naturall agilitie of Angells yea than of thoughts why then should we make any doubt but he may be disioined in different places at once ANSVVER This discourse being reduced to argumentation is as followeth If a soule may be in euerie part of the bodie the thought of man in many places an Angell in many distinct vbities and if God is in heauen and earth then the bodie of Christ may be in many places But the first is true Ergo c. It is answered First one part of the antecedent is false for an Angell being a finite creature is at one instant difinitiuely in one vbitie onely for that which mooueth and passeth from one vbitie to another is not in both the places at once but Angels mooue and passe from one place to another Genes 28. 12. Math. 4.11 cap. 12.43 Marc. 5.12 Ioh. 5.4 Genes 19.1 32.1 Apoc. 14.6 ca. 18.1 20.1 Damasc. li. 2. ca. 3. Angeli dum sunt in terra non sunt in coelo Whiles Angels are on earth they are not in heauen And the opinion of some Schoolemen alledged to the contrarie is not to be regarded because their owne fellowes teach that there is no certainetie of these and the like assertions Secondly the consequence is infirme because of the difference which is betweene a bodie and the things compared thereunto in the antecedent First the soule of man is in euery member of the bodie because it is the forme thereof and because it is by nature immaterial Secondly God is euery where because he is infinit Thirdly the thought of man is a spirituall or intentionall motion and action and not a substantiall thing therefore Speculando phantasmata it may conceiue and apprehend diuers distant obiects Per modum vnius at one instant Fourthly Angells are immateriall substances and therefore their motion and action is sodaine yet determined to one place at one instant but an humane body is materiall finite and limited to a certaine space and measure and differeth from all the former things mentioned in the argument in kind and motion in manner of being present Reade before pag. 180. Ergo haec nihil ad Rhombum Therefore all these instances to this purpose and question of bodies are no better than shadowes without bodies IESVIT Fourthly We finde difficultie to conceiue that accidents existing separated from any substance can performe the office of substance euen to the nourishment of mans body but we should perchance find as much difficultie to beleeue That of a little
miscarriage hath power to represent her selfe in another Bodie or Councell and to take order for what was amisse eyther practised or concluded So here is a meanes without infringing any lawfull Authoritie of the Church to preserue or reduce Vnitie and yet graunt as the B. did and as the Church of England doth That a Generall Councell may erre And this course the Church tooke did call and represent her selfe in a new Councell and define against the Hereticall Conclusions of the former as in the case at Ariminum and the second of Ephesus is euident 4. The next thing I consider is Suppose a Generall Councell infallible in all things which are of Faith If it prooue not so but that an Error in the Faith be concluded the same erring Opinion that makes it thinke it selfe infallible makes the Error of it seeme irreuocable And when Truth which lay hid shall be brought to light the Church who was lulled asleepe by the Opinion of Infallibilitie is left open to all manner of Distractions as it appeares at this day And that a Councell may erre besides all other instances which are not few appeares by that Error of the Councell of Constance And one instance is enough to ouerthrow a Generall be it a Councell Christ instituted the Sacrament of his Bodie and Bloud in both kinds To breake Christs Institution is a damnable Error and so confessed by Stapleton The Councell is bold and defines peremptorily That to communicate in both kinds is not necessarie with a Non obstante to the Institution of Christ. Consider with me Is this an Error or not Bellarmine and Stapleton and you too say it is not because to receiue vnder both kinds is not by Diuine Right No no sure For it was not Christs Precept but his Example Why but I had thought Christs Institution of a Sacrament had beene more than his Example onely and as binding for the Necessaries of a Sacrament the Matter and Forme as a Precept Therefore speake out and denie it to be Christs Institution or else graunt with Stapleton It is a damnable Error to goe against it If you can prooue that Christs Institution is not as binding to vs as a Precept which you shall neuer be able take the Precept with it Drinke yee All of this which though you shift as you can yet you can neuer make it other than it is A Binding Precept But Bellarmine hath yet one better Deuice than this to saue the Councell Hee saith it is a meere Calumnie and that the Councell hath no such thing That the Non obstante hath no reference to Receiuing vnder both kinds but to the time of Receiuing it after Supper in which the Councell saith the Custome of the Church is to be obserued Non obstante notwithstanding Christs Example How foule Bellarmine is in this must appeare by the words of the Councell which are these Though Christ instituted this venerable Sacrament and gaue it his Disciples after Supper vnder both kinds of Bread and Wine yet Non obstante notwithstanding this it ought not to be consecrated after Supper nor receiued but fasting And likewise that though in the Primitiue Church this Sacrament was receiued by the faithfull vnder both kinds yet this Custome that it should be receiued by Lay-men onely vnder the kind of Bread is to be held for a Law which may not be refused And to say this is an vnlawfull Custome of Receiuing vnder one kind is erroneous and they which persist in saying so are to be punished and driuen out as Heretikes Now where is here any slander of the Councell The words are plaine and the Non obstante must necessarily for ought I can yet see be referred to both Clauses in the words following because both Clauses went before it and hath as much force against Receiuing vnder both kinds as against Receiuing after Supper Yea and the after-words of the Councell couple both together in this reference for it followes Et similiter And so likewise that though in the Primitiue Church c. And a man by the Definition of this Councell may be an Heretike for standing to Christs Institution in the very matter of the Sacrament And the Churches Law for One kind may not be refused but Christs Institution vnder Both kinds may And yet this Councell did not erre No take heed of it But your Opinion is yet more vnreasonable than this For consider any Bodie Collectiue be it more or lesse vniuersall whensoeuer it assembles it selfe Did it euer giue more power to the Representing Bodie of it than binding power vpon all particulars and it selfe too And did it euer giue this power any otherwise than with this Reseruation in Nature That it would call againe and reforme yea and if need were abrogate any Law or Ordinance vpon iust cause made euident to it And this Power no Bodie Collectiue Ecclesiasticall or Ciuill can put out of it selfe or giue away to a Parliament or Councell or call it what you will that represents it And in my Consideration it holds strongest in the Church For a Councell hath power to order settle and define Differences arisen concerning the Faith This Power the Councell hath not by any immediate Institution from Christ but it was prudently taken vp in the Church from the Apostles Example So that to hold Councels to this end is apparant Apostolicall Tradition written but the Power which Councels so held haue is from the whole Catholike Church whose members they are and the Churches Power from God And this Power the Church cannot further giue away to a Generall Councell than that the Decrees of it shall bind all particulars and it selfe but not bind the Church from calling againe and in the after calls vpon iust cause to order yea and if need be to abrogate former Acts I say vpon iust cause For if the Councell be lawfully called and proceed orderly and conclude according to the Rule the Scripture the whole Church cannot but approoue the Councell and then the Definitions of it can neuer be questioned after And the Power of the Church hath no wrong in this so long as no Power but her owne may meddle or offer to infringe any Definition of hers made in her representatiue Bodie a lawfull Generall Councell And certaine it is no Power but her owne may doe this Nor doth this open any gappe to priuate spirits For all Decisions in such a Councell are binding And because the whole Church can meet no other way the Councell shall remaine the Supreame Externall Liuing Temporarie Ecclesiasticall Iudge of all Controuersies Onely the whole Church and shee alone hath power when Scripture or Demonstration is found and peaceably tendered to her to represent her selfe againe in a new Councell and in it to order what was amisse Nay your Opinion is yet more vnreasonable For you doe not onely make the Definition of a Generall Councell but the Sentence
heauier if wee mis-lead on eytherside than theirs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs. But I see I must looke to my selfe for you are secure For F. Dr White said I hath secured me that none of our Errors be damnable so long as wee hold them not against our Conscience And I hold none against my Conscience B. It seemes then you haue two Securities Dr Whites Assertion and your Conscience What Assurance Dr White 〈◊〉 you I cannot tell of my selfe nor as things stand may I rest vpon your Relation It may be you vse him no better than you doe the Bishop And sure it is so For I haue since spoken with Dr White and hee auowes this and no other Answere Hee was asked in the conferense betweene you Whether Popish Errors were Fundamentall To 〈◊〉 hee gaue 〈◊〉 by distinction of the persons which held and professed the Errors namely That the Errors were Fundamentall reductiue by a Reducement if they which embraced them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 adhere to them hauing sufficient 〈◊〉 to be better enformed nay further that they were materially and in the verie kind and nature of them Leauen Drosse Hay and Stubble Yet hee thought withall that such as were mis-led by Education or long Custome or over-valuing the 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 Church and did in 〈◊〉 of heart embrace them might by their generall 〈◊〉 and Faith in the Merit of Christ attended with Charitie 〈◊〉 other Vertues find mercie at Gods hands But that hee should say Signanter and expressely That none eyther of yours or your fellowes 〈◊〉 were damnable so long as you hold them not against Conscience that hee vtterly disauowes You deliuered nothing to 〈◊〉 such a Confession from him And for your selfe hee could obserue but small loue of Truth few signes of Grace in you as hee tells mee Yet hee will not presume to iudge you or your Saluation it is the Word of Christ that must iudge you as the latter Day For your Conscience you are the happier in your Error that you hold nothing against it especially if you speake not against it while you say so But this no man can know but your Conscience For no man knowes the thoughts of a man but the spirit of a man that is within him to which I leaue you But yet you leaue not For you tell me F. The doubting partie asked Whether shee might be saued in the Protestants Faith Vpon 〈◊〉 Soule said the B. you may Vpon my Soule said I there is but one sauing Faith and that is the Romane B. So it seemes the B. was confident for the Faith professed in the Church of England else hee would not haue taken the Saluation of another vpon his Soule And sure hee had reason of his Confidence For to beleeue the Scripture and the Creeds to beleeue these in the sense of the antient Primitiue Church to receiue the foure great Generall Councels so much magnified by Antiquitie to beleeue all Points of Doctrine generally receiued as Fundamentall in the Church of Christ is a Faith in which to liue and die cannot but giue Saluation And therefore the B. went vpon a sure ground in the aduenture of his Soule vpon that Faith Besides in all the Points of Doctrine that are controuerted betweene vs. I would faine see anie one Point maintained by the Church of England that can bee prooued to depart from the Foundation You haue manie dangerous Errors about it in that which you call the Romane Faith But there I leaue you to looke to your owne Soule and theirs whom you seduce Yet this is true too That there is but one sauing Faith But then euerie thing which you call De Fide Of the Faith because some Councell or other hath defined it is not such a breach from that one sauing Faith as that hee which expressely beleeues it not nay as that hee which beleeues the contrarie is excluded from Saluation And Bellarmine is forced to graunt this There are manie things de Fide which are not absolutely necessarie to Saluation Therefore there is a Latitude in Faith especially in reference to Saluation To set a Bound to this and strictly to define it Iust thus farre you must beleeue in euerie particular or incurre Damnation is no worke for my Penne. These two things I am sure of One That your peremptorie establishing of so manie things that are remote Deductions from the Foundation hath with other Errors lost the Peace and Vnitie of the Church for which you will one day answere And the other That you are gone further from the Foundation of this one sauing Faith than can euer bee prooued wee haue done But to conclude you tell vs F. Vpon this and the precedent Conferences the Ladie rested in iudgement fully satisfied as shee told a confident friend of the Truth of the Romane Churches Faith Yet vpon frailetie and feare to offend the King shee yeelded to goe to Church For which shee was after verie sorrie as some of her friends can testifie B. This is all personall And how that Honourable Ladie is settled in Conscience how in Iudgement I know not This I thinke is made cleare enough That that which you said in this and the precedent Conferences could settle neyther vnlesse in some that were settled or setting before As little doe I know what shee told anie Friend of the Romane Cause No more whether it were frailetie or feare that made her yeeld to goe to Church nor how sorrie shee was for it nor who can testifie that sorrow This I am sure of If shee repent and God forgiue her other sinnes shee will farre more easily bee able to answere for her comming to Church than shee will for the leauing of the Church of England and following the Superstitions and Errors which the Romane Church hath added in point of Faith and worship of God I pray God giue her Mercie and all of you a Light of his Truth and a Loue to it first that you may no longer be made Instruments of the Popes boundlesse Ambition and this most vnchristian braine-sicke Deuice That in all Controuersies of the Faith hee is infallible and that by way of Inspiration and Prophesie in the Conclusion which hee giues To due consideration of this and Gods Mercie in Christ I leaue you FINIS Optat. lib. 3. c. Parmen Aug. c. Cresc lib. 3. ca. 51. Isid. d. sum bon lib. 3. ca. 53. Aug. Epist. 48. ad Vincent Idem Ep. 52. ad Macedon Idem Ep. 61. ad Dulcit Euseb. Hist. Eccles li. 10. ca. 9. Et d. vit Const. li. i. ca. 37. Ministrorum Dei coegit Concilium lib. 2. c. 43. lib. 3. ca. 6 10 12 16 17 18 23. Interdum 〈◊〉 quae ad Ecclesiarum Dei commodū spectabant prescribendo ib. ca. 63. lib. 4. c. 14. c. 18. Festos dies instituit ca. 22 23 27. Episcoporū Decreta cōfirmauit Theoderit Hist. Eccles li. 1. cap. 7. August d. Ciu. Dei li. 5. c. 25. Tertul. ad